THE EMPEROR'S GREAT MISTAKE! WHY IT WASN'T MONARCHIA! 

Why is it when people talk about Lorgar should have known better that they forget half the imperium did worship the emperor, the mechanicum

Lorgar was never supposed to be a Psyker. He was supposed to be the head iterator. He was supposed to be the Primarch "Chaplain" and deal with moral and loyalty issues. Perhaps he was swapped with Angron.

Absolute loving Lorgar week so far. Not something I could have necessarily said when I started learning about the lore years ago. This has really solidified to me that both Magnus and Lorgar are the most tragic Primarchs. Ferrus and Kurze are up there for me as well but these two only ever wanted to serve their father and understand the universe they inhabited, one through faith and the other through the warp.

The Emperor not only allowed Lorgars worship, but actively encouraged the mechanicus to see him as their god. It was only when he was dissatisfied with with the speed at which Lorgar would bring new systems under the Imperiums banner that he chooses to punish him. The word used was 'linger.' Lorgar was not meant to build, but to conquer. And the punishment reflects this, the burning of Monarchia, Lorgars perfect city. The emperor destroyed the thing he didn't want Lorgar to engage in.

Magnus and Lorgar share much the same tragic narrative with the Emperor. Lorgar saw The Emperor not refusing his efforts towards faith strongly, and so believed it was right... until the hammer of Monarchia. Magnus trained and learned Psyker-arts with The Emperor, the greatest of all human psykers. They saw each others souls and flew the Great Ocean together. Of course he was iron sure in his believes, that his Father would always agree with him against the haters like Mortarion and Russ. How could the most amazing and brilliant psyker and scholar ever side with bookburners and witch-hunters?

Sometimes, the Emperor does things that beg the question "Was he TRYING to make certain Primarchs hate him?".

Reread the story ‘the board is set’ the Emperor and Malcador know that in the future there will be a Great War between the Emperor and Chaos (War Master) in the story it is stated that no matter how many time they have played the game the cards always repeat the same thing. So maybe the Emperor and Malcador thought that this was the best time to start the conflict in the Emperor’s favor, so that there is a strong chance for the Emperor to win the future conflict.

A few insights that are not addressed in the video, or in the general coverage of others (some are subjective): 1., The way they were shamed is the same that which the Word Bearers used, namely having the conquered/defeated opponent kneel before the victor in the ashes of their culture. Doing this before Guilliman, who was supposed to be his equal as his brother, was an extra salt to injury. 2., My take always has been is that Lorgar and his legion's greatest failure was their lack of progress compared to their size, not the worship, which could have been forgiven, had they not been slow. From what I recall, they were close in numbers to the Ultramarines, yet the size of their conquest was far eclipsed by the blue ones. 3., From what I gather, the shaming was a kind of lesser evil, a shock therapy if you will by the Emperor for Lorgar. From what Magnus reveals to Lorgar, the Emperor seriously considered the dissolution of the Word Bearers, like what happened to the 2nd and 11th legions,. Only after discussing the case with other of his sons, did the Emperor decide not to go down this route. I mean, the Wolf King himself advised against this, and this took Lorgar aback.

I wonder though: Wasn't it stated somewhere that the Emperor DID voice his displeasure to Lorgar multiple times? And Lorgar just dismissed it. I refuse to believe that there wasn't a SINGLE conversation between Lorgar and the Emperor about this topic for over a century.

I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure manarchia was not the first time Lorgar was chastised for his faith. It was simply the first time Lorgar truely heard it.

I feel like this is a massive case of bad writing that each writter tries to patch up. Like the whole problem wasnt a diference of opinion, or a clash of ideas. But just that the emperor goofy aah forgor to tell Lorgar not to do the worshipy thingy

The way ADB writes Lorgar so appealing like you are one of his own sons is amazing.

The Emperors biggest mistake... stiff competition. His crushing lesson to Lorgar. His interaction with Angron. Him letting Konrad have autonomy. The entire stupid Nicea business. Not telling Horus enough. We can go on....

"Look at me, I`m Lorgar, I`m superspecial! I know the whole Imperium is based upon the fact that The Emperor is NOT a god, but as the Emperor himself didnt tell ME specifically that he is NOT a god, I`m ok worshipping him, because I`m sooo special and sooo different to everybody else!"

Love you rho. You’re literally always my go to to try and get people more into the lore.

To me, the Emperor's biggest mistake was deciding to deal with the Chaos Gods. While the specifics of this remain unknown (As best as I can tell at least), it seems to me that the scattering of the Primarchs and the Horus Heresy was ultimately the Chaos Gods' response to the Emperor breaking his pact with them, whatever it might have been. Fact of the matter is that the Emperor's plans for reunifying humanity under the Imperium were flawed from the start and it was always going to be an up-hill struggle. This was a man whose idea of "statesmanship" is using his psychic powers or horrific force to force compliance onto other worlds, who deceived the Mechanicum into service, and who thought establishing an entire empire on a lie was the way to go. This is the guy who screamed as loud as he could how there were no gods and how he wasn't one, yet acted shock when people began to bow and worship the 12 foot-tall olympian-of-a-man clad in insanely ornate gold-armor, always seemed to glow with golden-light, and had powers that were frankly god-like. But perhaps the Emperor's biggest problem is that he just didn't get humans, never mind his incredibly human-like sons. As much as the Emperor loved humanity and wanted it to thrive, he didn't understand the wants and needs of regular humans and his sons; and I bet his plans likely never took that into account. It doesn't help any that it looks like the Emperor knew something like the Horus Heresy was coming and likewise knew that SOME of his sons would turn on him, but he didn't know who exactly or when; and this made him impatient... Not just to finish the Great Crusade, but also to finish work on the human-webway. Unfortunately this combination of not understanding humanity and impatience created the conditions for the Horus Heresy and everything that led up to it. It's such a fitting cliche... Sometimes the harder you fight to change events or avoid a certain fate, the faster you move towards it. In his bid to reunify humanity under a secular government and to usher in a new golden-age, he doomed the species to a grimdark existence of ignorance and religious fanaticism.

You’re early videos are the best!! Whenever I want to just repeat anything on RU-vid it’s classic Rho every time!

The scattering of the Primachs was the cause of the heresay because it denied the Emperor the opportunity to mold each Primarch to his will and design

The Emperor doesn't make mistakes. ...only happy accidents.

the emperor didnt say anything to lorgar at first cause of plot reasons

Loving this week special! ❤

So, I don't remember where I heard it, so take it with a grain of salt, but I thought I have read about the emperor sending other primarchs to see what is taking Lorgar so long to conquer worlds, when he found out why, I remember the emperor sending out messages as well as the primarchs themselves (when there was time/close proximity) to explain that this goes against the emperors wishes? If that is true, then most of the blame can still fall on the emperor, but still Lorgar would also shoulder some of that blame.

That I’ve overslept and are now late for work feeling. Ugh! That one sucks.

It's another one of those situations which makes the narrative we've been given seem completely absurd. The Emperor must have made the connection between the gods of Colchis and the ruinous powers. It's no wonder that some people think the Heresy must have been orchestrated by the Emperor as the only real alternative is that the Emperor was hilariously incompetent.

The Imperial Truth was all the address he needed. Lorgar’s worship was basically calling the Emperor a liar. That could not stand. Having said that he went about it as an Emperor instead of as a father. We will never understand the difference.

When it comes to who deserved what, I'm far more concerned with the millions and more people who lost everything they had, because the Emperor couldn't get a point across without raising a city to the ground.

I believe the Emperor wanted the heresy to happen so he could ascend. On a side note is there any lore about Primarchs vs Phoenix Lords?

I suppose the big problem with Lorgar was he FORCED people to worship The Emperor as a God. People already considered the Emperor divine before the end of the Unification Wars. Not a big deal. The Mechanicum considered him the Omnissaia (not everyone). They were not forced to worship him. What happens with Lorgar is he convert people with force and exterminate people that don't convert. With the rules of The Immaterium, people worship was turning the Emperor in a tyrant). And he behave like a tyrant when he dealt with Lorgar. Not only that, but when Lorgar forced the people he conquered to worship the Emperor, he imposed (of course) his vision of the Emperor on them. And their worship projected it to the Emperor. This forced the Emperor hand and He needed to break the power of Lorgan in shaping the worshipping. Probably fast; before it could do permanent damages.

Good stuff

Monarchia is a key talking point when talking about the incompetence of the Emperor. The Emperor rose to power for being a warlord, not for being a competent leader and he opposed democracy so strongly because he knew no one in there right mind would ever vote for him.

The Emperor didn’t put a stop to Logar’s faith immediately out of desperation. He needed to conquer the galaxy quickly and he didn’t have time to reeducate Lorgar. The religious zealotry of the Word Bearers (and all the worlds they conquered) could be corrected after the crusade, but it was only after The Word Bearers were behind schedule in their crusade because they were busy erecting temples that The Emperor was forced to stamp out their faith. It worked, the Word Bearers almost accelerated to the head of the pack in worlds brought into compliance, but unfortunately Lorgar was driven into the open arms of Chaos.

It's rare to find a video that needs to be played at x2 speed.

Disagree on any other primarch would have led to bloodshed comment. Why did the Emperor send, of all primarchs, Konrad Curze to EFFECTIVELY stop Magnus from riffling through a pre-Heresy Chaos library, shocking and scaring the Thousand Sons primarch with uncomfortable truths in a speech (yeah, a brief "open fire" order too), yet sends by-the-book Roboute and massive show of force to Monarchia? Curze probably would have been a better warning to Lorgar, as he easily dismantled an intellect like Magnus in his own favored forum of words (let alone chanced the psychic might of the Thousand Sons with his simple, bully-mentality torture squad). Curze probably could have shaken Lorgar's faith with smaller effort and been less predictable or comfortable for Erebus and Kor Phaeron to exploit, if the madman didn't see them as people who should be crucified to set as an example.

Lorgar saying Big E never denied his godhood. And then saying a real god would deny it, truly shows how childish his views of religion are. Big E can't win. If he says he's a god, he's affirming Lorgar's belief. If he denies it, the same result. I can imagine multiple conversations with them going something like this. E: I'm not a god. L: of course. E: I'm serious. Stop it. L: I understand. Winks knowingly. E: I said stop it! I think after 100 years of his orders going in one ear and out the other, he finally just had enough.

Love you wolf lord bro bro

I think the emperor was probably trying to change the future he foresaw but the mistake was it couldnt be changed

Of course the Emperor knew. He knew when Horus was traveling through time in the Warp, trying to erase his own history with pops. He swatted away all four chaos deities simultaneously with no effort. The Emperor knew the Heresy would come, because he knew the only way for humanity to survive was to have something to fight for; people needed to take sides.

Lorgar is lucky the Emperor didn't send Russ. At least Roboute evacuated the city before destroying it.

"All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of Human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth." -Opening Lines of the Book of Lorgar, First Canticle of Chaos When I first got into 40k, Lorgar was easily my least favorite Primarch. I didn't find him interesting at all. Yet, once I got into the Horus Heresy series, I really began to respect him, even when I found his actions deplorable. I look at him as a scholar and priest who was forced to become a General.

I havent read the book but... was Monarchia evacuated ? I feel it is a naive question given the fact that we are talking 40k here... but I figured I'd ask anyway

I think what happened with the Emperor and the censor of Lorgar just showed how human the Emperor was regardless of his powers and that He could and did make mistakes.

GEOMK rolled a Nat1 on his alchemy check when crafting Lorgar.

While Lorgar wondered aloud about why the Emperor said nothing against his idea of compliance, Magnus said nothing to dispute his brother's words. I think it's because he knew it wasn't the right time to point out where his brother missed the memo. Surely he'd have been instructed on what "compliance" involved at some point; nothing more or less. Maybe a reminder or two that his duty is to keep reclaiming worlds and all the temples and doctrines were an undesirable distraction. Unfortunately he grew up with harsh punishments and beatings as the only way to know he'd done something wrong. He may have genuinely interpreted more subtle signs of displeasure as acceptance, and the lack of change on his part would be taken as disobedience from the Emperor who was not used to his creations failing to understand his expectations.

Just imagine Russ being present the moment Lorgar hit Malcador - I like the idea of an epic beating tbh.

Maybe the Emperor didn't care if he was revered so long as the job got done. The job was taking too long so he had to tell him that's the wrong way.

"Right Lorgar, don't ever press that red button. I'm going to go over here for a bit and ill be back to check." Lorgar: "what did I do wrong?"

It is my opinion that several primarchs had qualities that were too reflective of the Emperor for the Emperors own comfort. Angron was, deeply, connected to his fathers well of compassion for all mankind, more than any primarch in the start. This was something the emperor did not like about himself, something he saw as a limiting flaw in his capabilities, prooven in the last battle with horus, as something holding him back. Angron's anger was overiding his compassion, the emperor wanted Angron spiteful, not only because it worked for the crusade, but because it covered the mirror. Similarly, I think it wasnt faith, but the absolute unwaverying certainty in Lorgar that the emperor could not abide. Worse that it was certainty in the wrong choice. The emperor knew he had also been certain in his mistakes and decisions, and Lorgar was a literal constant reminder of all those little misteps he was so sure of. A mockery of the emperor. We know one thing the Emperir certainly was, was proud.

I think this video shows more than most that the timetable for the Emperors plan was unrealistic, and in his haste he laid the foundation for its destruction.

It's possible the emperor knew that lorgar had created just the right amount of worship. The current timeline is not Plan A but it was always a possibility. Apotheosis was needed as a contingency to the webway. However he couldn't be seen to be going down that path because that would have resulted in problems further down the line. I think a few of the loyalists (on average better) might have opposed the emperor trying to be a god.

It's almost a shame RG didn't didn't do anything when Lorgar hit Malcador. He might have killed Lorgar there and then. He could have taken him. Lorgar was chump.

You know, G-man calling exterminatus on the entire Word Bearers doesn't really sound like a tragedy to me. I mean Argal Tal dies earlier but...so does Erebus and Kor Pharon

There are times where it feels like the Emperor just really sucked at interpersonal relationships. He really needed to take time to sit down with each Primarch individually considering just how crucial they were to his plans. The fact that he had one brother punishing another just shows he badly he understood them.

All Lorgar wanted was the truth, but the Emperor only ever gave him lies. This doesn’t excuse him falling to the lies of dark powers, but it does explain it.

Faith does not have to equate to fanaticism. Every primarch had faith in that their fathers dream of as the correct dream(except Angron and maybe Kurtz + Perty towards the end). Every astartes had faith in their gene father that they would not forsake them. Every human had faith that humanity would triumph over the xenos filth because they deserved to do so. Faith cannot be corrupted in the face of temptation. The pride of the emperor blinded him to the fact all that followed him need to have faith in his light to see through the darkest night.

The Emperors Great Mistake(s) in Order: 1) Not dropping Horus at least a hint of what he was doing on Terra 2) Not taking steps to handle Angron (via either removing the butchers nails or disposing of him, then either leaving the warhounds as a Legion whose primach 'died' prior to being found or intergrate them with someone else going full II & XI) 3) Allowing clearly mentally unhinged Primarchs complete carte blanche over legions before they'd had some therapy or were ready for the responsibility lot of problems could of been avoided by not letting Pertuabo decimate his legion due to his inferiority problem or Morty wholes sale 'reforming' the the Dusk Raiders into a less efficency force because he has issues) 4) The Nightlords! 5) After Monachia relying on a few Custodes to keep an eye on Logar rather than say, paring him up with the entire Space Wolves legion for some 'joint crusading and bonding efforts to improve fraternity after the rebuke' with Russ being under strick orders to [Redacted] Logars ass at the first sign he's taken the whole thing badly. 6) While we're talking about Russ, relaying the orders for him to detain Magnus and bring him to Terra via Horus, this is one of those really important deals you break chain of command over and give the orders directly, even if Horus wasn't about to turn traitor, something this important you don't leave the possibility of misinterpretation of instructions by relaying the order, you do it directly and make sure the deranged super viking has clealry understood. 7) And this needs mentioning again The Nightlords!!!

He should have razed Colchis the minute he landed and realized it was ruled by a religious fanatic. Lograr should have joined the2nd and the 11th

that's so true why didn't the emperor stop lorgars religious tendencies at colchis when they first met

My view is that the big E messed up big style, that he is at fault for the downfall of man. That he does not but should take responsibility for his fallen sons. I suspect that some of the fallen will come bacl to him.

Just another thing pointing towards the Emperor knowing about the Heresy AND actively taking steps to make sure it happened. Why else would he treat some of his sons so unbelievably bad and then prop others up on pedestals?

Lorgar's pride and arrogance shouldn't be excused as part of his fall. Like many who claim to be religious, he disguised his ego by displacing it only one step - servant of God, rather than claiming to be god. It was most apparent in his treatment of malcador. If he had truly been faithful, he would have accepted that malcador was the emperor's most favored servant and above him. If he had truly been faithful, he would have accepted that the emperor had some reason to deny he was a god, that he knew better than lorgar did. Lorgar received the chance to realise his real place in the galaxy himself, and failed. He just wanted to be 'the truest servant of the true god' - and he didn't care about that God's actual nature or worthiness, as shown by his replacement of the emperor with chaos.

By the Imperial Truth and his very edicts the Emperor denounced religion. Its understandable to say we dont need to adress this one world immediately upon finding Lorgar, expecting him to learn from his brothers and the crusade. Think about the scale of wh40k and how old the emperor is as well, 100 years is a brief moment when travel can take years and you live for 1,000's of years.

Imagine if Lorgar hit the Sigilite infront of Russ... whooo, Russ would take his head off in a sec if he belived for a moment Malcador was dead.

Lorgar smacks up malcador where horus got choke slammed

I think Emperor's failure with most of his sons stems from the same reason. Time. For perpetual time has to feel different. Century may feel like a week and he has so much to do. Instead of requiring complete faith, he should have made deeper connections with his sons to earn that unyielding faith on him. If you think it from Emps POV, you kinda understand all of it, it's much easier to subjugate a world that worships you than rebels against, but it doesn't make the act anymore true. Imperial truth should have been enough, but as with any parenthood, it must come from the father himself to be effective rule for son. Every Primarch saw Emperor as their father with whom they spent 500 years or so. For Emperor that's like bit over month in perspective while running an Empire and having to get in touch with 20 sons that were just the means to the end.

This was the first blow of the heresy.

The Emperor can see the future, but the problem is that he can see too many possible futures.

Colchis spent hundreds, if not thousands of years worshipping Chaos. How was it that neither the Emperor nor Magnus - two of, if not the two most powerful Human Psykers of all time - could sense this?

The more I learn about the heresy the more it has to be planned to a degree by the emperor. There’s no way he’s that incompetent to not see what was happening all around him

The Fenrisian Heresy…. first Armageddon, now this.

Didn’t the Ultramarines bombardment completely obliterated the city? Like not a single brick of a single building surviving intact

It's clear to me why fate had put Magnus with The Emperor when they found Logar. The Emperor should have had Magnus help him explain to Logar the True nature of Chaos. The Emperor offering himself up as "The One", using Logar and Magnus to run a type of faith world that could be special operation demon hunters. All while knowing how to ward off chaos and knowing how to fight it. Explaining the horrors of The Warp and then offering scripture that symbols that legitimately ward off chaos using all the knowledge that could have been amassed on all 4 if the deitys. Then again a rebellion might have happened, but The Emperor could have put Logar in charge of that so he could decide the fate of his world. Given resources and technology of course.

Lorgar should have been the only one to be explained and showed the TRUE nature of chaos and the chaos gods, how dangerous warp is and why it should be stopped. Monarchia literally broke Word Bearers batshit insane to the point some, Zadu went down right American psycho with split personality. It was indeed Monarchia but more than that the lack of truth told to Lorgar.

Perhaps appearing as a shining golden god to people gives the wrong impression. If he appeared as a skinny nerd in white coat telling lorgar he grew him in a lab from a toenail clipping, he wouldn't of been venerated.

Multiple times. On so many occasions the emperor messed up however he was the emperor. It’s difficult but we have to try and immerse ourselves in the 41st millennium and therefor think as he would of done being the most powerful human alive gifted beyond comprehension and borderline a god. Mornachia I do believe is perhaps the only time I find it hard to forgive him, Lorgar was loyal to the core and a beautiful city did not need to be wiped off the face of a planet to make his point. It wasn’t deserved. I think BL like the fact Lorgar was wronged and brutally hurt, adds a twist to the lore instead of a typical the good guys were in the right from the get go.

No matter what he said, Lorgar must have known of the Imperial Truth. Prior to his recovery, his legion were The Iconoclasts, tasked with destroying anything that didn't agree with the Emperor's vision. How could Lorgar not have known, when he deliberately changed the character and beliefs of his legion? From what I can gather, he purged his legion twice.

His biggest mistake is def not having magnus help on the webway project

Lorgar had already partially fallen to chaos when he was found, the Emperor should have just shot him in the head right away

Chastised lorgar whilst 2 legions regularly are forced to decimate legionaries behind failure?

I think it is highly unlikely that all his time with the imperium he never heard of the imperial truth. He did everything wrong

I honestly can't say which legion I had most: the Word Bearers and Lorgar or the World Eaters and Angron. Both Primarchs are useless but Angron has been broken since The Emperor found him. Lorgar at least had a chance but his marines, barring Argal Tal, are trash.

Did they kill everyone in the city? Or did they just destroy the city itself?

Emperor’s greatest mistake was choosing the Imperial Fists instead of the Iron Warriors to be the home guard for Terra.

The anchorite was right, it wasn’t the Emperor that failed it was Lorgar. It was a test and he and the Legion failed

Big E's greatest mistake was making Lorgar.

Was Monarchia evacuated before it was destroyed?

That's what makes the whole of 40k interesting: all of the bad things that happen to the "good" guys is because they are just totally, fundamentally flawed. The Emperor did so much wrong. Horus's impulse was right, but literally everything he did to act on it was also wrong. It's just failures and fools all the way down.

Doesn't Lorgar make a statement like, "Only the truly divine deny their divinity." I'm guessing E tried to tell him nicely, probably a few times, which Lorgar merely took as divine humility. Emps probably should have jsut said, "Would you stop burning that F----- incense every time we talk, and shut off the stupid organ this isn't a divine revelation, it's a freaking battle report!"

Logar and Angron reasons for birth control.

Biggest mistake wasn't just offing Lorgar right off the bat. No cure for the zealot but the blade.

I think you already answered the question. I think the Emperor being silent for 100 years was to build up the religious faith Lorgar had in him, so he could destroy it. He realized Lorgar was religious from the start, and that you cant reason with faith because faith dose not need reason, nor dose faith adhere to reason. In the end Lorgars faith in the Emperor was certainly broken beyond repair, leaving Lorgar empty, and without purpose. Lorgar then sought out the dark gods on his own after the fact. Overall the point was to shatter Lorgars faith, and prime him to accept the Imperial truth, but it backfired on the Emperor. Also by our standards 100 years is a lifetime, but to the Emperor and his sons, time is somewhat irrelevant, 100 years is nothing to them so by the Emperors own standards of time he really didn't tolerate it for that long.

Emperor: “I am not a god” Lorgar: “Only a god would deny their divinity” Emperor: *makes tens of thousand of genetically superior super soldiers created from his own DNA kneel with only a thought* “I…am…not…a…god” Lorgar: “Sure, dad” 🙄

...as if the Emperor only made ONE colossal mistake. Please, Monarchia was just one of the more unnecessary mistakes where he made others do the dirty work. Honestly, thinking about it, if GW came out one day and said that the Emperor intentionally designed the Imperium and everything associated with the Primarchs in order so that the Horus Heresy could happen in service of some long-term master strategy, I'd honestly be relieved, because that would mean there was at least a plan and an idea as to why he'd do half the bone-headed things he did before and during the Great Crusade. Angron alone was a colossal mistake, because literally the only thing that the Emperor had to do in order to win Angron's loyalty was either beam up all his comrades, or beam down a squad of Space Marines to handle the people who killed them. The emperor had a number of options in that scenario, and he picked the one option that was guaranteed to make Angron an enemy for life; even if he didn't care about Angron's friends, he had to have known that Angron cared about them, and that it'd be easy to win his loyalty by saving them, and he even could've gotten some primo recruits on top. The Emperor managed to seriously offend most of the Primarchs by the end of the Crusade, such that even if Chaos had never been involved, he was likely looking at a mutiny within his own legions eventually, and Chaos just sped it up. Abandoning the Crusade at some unclear point, and never telling them anything about the reasoning made them all confused and unsure about what was going on, which created ripe territory for rumor and suspicion. I mean, when you think about it, the Emperor made rebellion/heresy/civil war simply a matter of inertia, because he not only didn't really work on ensuring most of their loyalties, he actively pushed most of them away. Short of some unclear long-term plan, the only way it makes sense is that ironically the Master of Mankind had no clue whatsoever about human nature.

Its a mix. Its 40k, its always a mix rather than one or the other, it is as much the Emperor's fault as it is Lorgar's fault, even with his "innocence".

Personally I don't think lorgar was ever capable of obedience or loyalty he disobeys and betrays everyone humanity, the Emperor, his sons and the chaos gods the guy just does whatever he wants and doesn't care about the consequences of his actions.

Heheh Rho you are sounding like a heretic methinks! But you make a good point: I always wondered why the Emperor did not speak to Lorgar about the divine worship stuff. Because of this, the Monarchia punishment was because the Emperor was not happy with the WB's crusade progress, and because he heard disturbing stories of how they enforced compliance. Bottom line, the Emperor did mess up: he misread the room and st Lorgar down the path to Chaos. I just wish he had at least sniffed out Kor Phaeron and Erebus and jettisoned those guys into space.

He Know’s Exactly What He’s Doing He Understands It All It’s All One Big Plan Gambling All Humanity Against Chaos

Why didn't the Emperor rebuke him way before?

I use to dislike lorga but after hearing his lore I feel bad and quiet sad, about him now

both sides are at fault. Lorgar knew of the Imperial Truth and ignored it, and to get him to understand that his father's word was law, Monarchia had to be destroyed. The Emperor is at fault because there's disciplining a son and then there's reaching down and destroying something he holds close to his very soul as a means to teach him this lesson. Big E was never what you'd call 'father of the year' material before but this makes it worse.

Mistake is a singular. As with the vorlons 1 mistake of so many...