The END of Destiny 2... ft. Byf 

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I hope the Vex do become like the reapers, and are truly horrific. The witness missed the tone on the horror it should've brought. The Vex learning from every mistake, every failure and every victory we and our enemies made can make them super powerful and horrifying.

I would like to offer an idea for the final shape. The Witness wants to merge the Traveler , and the Veil to do the same exact ritual his people did on their planet, only to EVERYTHING. Combining everything in to one being, one single thing that is everything.

I love how Bungie said that the Veil Containment missions would explain everything we need to know about the Veil, and it has only explained how Neomuna came to be and what happened to the Ishtar Collective members who founded the city. Edit: I know the messages aren't done people. I'm saying that Bungie insinuated that the Veil Containment missions would be solely focused on the Veil, not Neomuna's creation

I honestly feel like Bungie is scrambling to make the story as they go. There is no other explanation for the mess that was Lightfall. The Season of the Deep trying to explain the expansion that came months before is a huge blunder leading into what should be an epic finally. The reality is that I have zero faith in Bungie to deliver the ending that we deserve because their decision making seems to be only driven by money at this stage.

Marathon sold a few hundred thousand copies and haven't been relevant in 30 years. My only question about it is if it will crash and burn faster than Lawbreakers or much faster than Lawbreakers. It's obvious they view-botted the official trailer on RU-vid to I assume defraud some investors.

I think an important thread on whether the Witness is correct is the lore we got on the Ecumene. They seemed to be able to find some level of "galactic contentness" by leveraging the peaceful power of the darkness that mentally connected the living to each other and even the dead. The Witness just decided to have that theory of psychic collectivism destroyed because it conflicted with it's ideology, despite the fact that the Ecumene were able to find that peace that the Witness wanted in theory. They even originally rejoiced the detection of the host of the hive right up until they realized they were to be annihilated. I think the "river of souls" is that psychic darkness connection piece that the neomuni and ecumene are tapping into, which is going to be the thread that ultimately proves the witness wrong and leads to its downfall. It seems to have completely overlooked the power of connecting all individuals through the darkness as a form of peace and jumped straight to forming one monolithic ideology and being.

For me Destiny 2 is done after The Final Shape (same as Endgame was for me with Marvel). This confirmation of the Vex being a focus point was another reason to drop out. You’re telling me after 10 years, they are not going to consider new enemy races or brand new elements (whilst getting rid of Solar / Arc / Void). We’ve been fighting the same stuff / using the same stuff for a decade, the lack of creativity just harkens back to the conference where they said they don’t over deliver anymore…

I really really truly believe the reason why we have been getting lackluster things now is because they pulled the heavy hitters and out them on final shape. For it to be the big bombastic conclusion that they have been hyping up for years, they need to have the best of the best working on it. I hope I’m right on this

Audio is very jumpy FTI

Destiny Events. They make you buy your own Christmas presents... Then tell you that you cant open them until you've washed the dishes 35 times in 3 weeks.

After lightfall I straight up stopped caring about the story, which was the only reason I stuck with the game for so long "Final shape ? Yeah cool man whatever" is literally how I feel

I have a sinking feeling Destiny 2 will be the Game of Thrones of gaming… As in a strong start but a terrible ending. We still have 2 season left of this year so fingers crossed I’m wrong

The problem with introducing said information in LF is how it is delivered in of itself because there was no Ahsa or anyone where interact with that knew of the Witness that can give us the cutscene information.

These are honestly some of my favorite videos on this site. You two have great synergy ✌

Here's the thing: Final Shape will have to over-deliver in ways never seen before. It will have to bring a new subclass and element, new enemy races, evil guardians, alternative supers/melees/grenades for all darkness subclasses, a new weapon type, at least 9 new crucible maps, new crucible modes, ship combat, improve comp, dedicated servers, get rid of cheaters, new gambit maps, new gambit game modes, new exotic weapons and armors, a new raid AND a new dungeon, and it'll have to bring back SRL, tamp down on monetization, streamline the purchasing model, improve the new player onboarding pathways, make the old campaigns free-to-play, AND deliver an extremely compelling and satisfying end to the story. Bungie can't do all this, but it is what's required to leave us nearly completely satisfied. So, we'll likely be disappointed when the dust settles. Brace yourself, Guardians.

The fact that the traveler is still a mystery in year 10 says how shit the progression and story telling is in this game.

The problem with the Veil in Lightfall is that everyone acts like they know exactly what it is and the player has no EFFING CLUE WHAT IS GOING ON OR WHAT IT IS AND WHY ITS IMPORTANT.

my problem with the veil is that the buildup just wast there, it came out of the blue and was supposed to be as important as the traveler. afterwards now we've learned stuff like the black heart being an attempt to recreate it and 'the device' used by future warcult is connected to it and some stuff like that. however it just doesn't work when none of it was clear. the pyramids on the other hand were first shown in d2y1 and then in shadowkeep they showed us one and from there kept building up the lore on them. they gave a clear hint about it, told us that this was a bad thing, told us it was important and waited. they let the community think and build hype about wtf are the pyramids and then 2 years after they show us in shadowkeep that there's been one here all along. the veil was shown in a cutscene in lightfall and then just a few hours later we were looking right at it. it's a perfect example of how not to do buildup

Never thought about it before, but Bfy is right. If the events of Witch Queen hadn’t transpired, and if Savathun had died or was killed by us, and wasn’t brought back by the Light, that knowledge wouldn’t have been retained, and she wouldn’t be in the begrudge position she may be in, to help us. Her fate by, or before, Final Shape is still tbd. But, she may realize, working together is the only way we’ll survive. Savathun may strike a temporary alliance with us, and then we can contend with each other after the Witness and it’s forces are dealt with. Savathun may not deserve a second chance, but we would’ve never been able to go through the portal without her knowledge. In war, information can change the tide. Even one pebble can shift the scales of war. But, on the topic of “the right way”, I think, it will be humanity and the Guardians embracing both light and dark, and us coming to our own conclusions. Not being blinded by the Light, or lost to obsession in the Dark.

I hope the next saga delves more into the origins of the Traveler (if Final Shape doesn't). The Light and Dark, as we've seen, are just paracausal energies yet there is intelligence behind the Traveler. It sent the ghosts, it chooses who to give the light to, it fled from the Witness's people, in a piece of lore is spoke to Rhulk through a ghost so what is this sentience? Who built the Traveler? etc.

What if after the final shape or after the light and darkness saga our guardian dies. Because during season of Dawn, we saw a memorial hinting directly towards our guardian, so maybe they die and we play a totally different character.

Personally see it like this. The only way to get change will be everyone needs to stop buying into destiny. I dont see it happening.

Man just casually drops a almost 2 hour podcast after not uploading

BYF's Mic was cutting in and out.

What are your thoughts from the missing rocket launcher, grenade launcher, auto rifle, pulse rifle and sword that show when loading up the campaign missions?

Most PvP players don't want the dream they just want some level of service the financially viable thing is BS

I think the one thing Bungie should do, (or atleast what I would like them to do) is to just be straight up with the community. They’ve given us all these promises on what they’re bringing to the game (namely PvP) and have nothing to show for it and just staying quiet. It would make me feel better and have some respect for them if they just came out and said “sorry but we can’t deliver on those promises” or if they still do intend to keep their promise then at least give us something like “we hear you, we do. Let us cook” or SOMETHING, you know? 343 was straight up with what they could and couldn’t bring into halo infinite and they’ve still got a player-base, not as much as it would have been but they’re rolling with the punches and not giving up. The silence just makes Bungie seem more guilty. Never thought I’d say 343 has bigger balls than Bungie.

Looking forward to tuning in on this one.

"They won't bring her in a season and kill her by the end of it, i highly doubt that." LOOK AT RASPUTIN.

One of the reasons why the micro transactions of Destiny 2 and Warframe feel so different, is because they are both very different games. In one, you get loot from random rolls, it’s a game produced by a AAA developer, and it started out as a 60$ game that later became free to play. In the other, it started out f2p, built it’s model around time investment and being a game you take breaks on, which loot/gear you craft instead of getting them from drops, and the dev is not AAA, but rather, an experienced dev that know they’re audience, listens to them and communicates, and is an indie studio that’s run their game for well over a decade.

Allowing players to pay to skip subsequent campaign playthroughs is absolutely shameless

I get "tower of Babel" vibes from the witness. In this instance the pursuit of perfection lead to the conjoining of an entire people to destroy the idea creation.

How does Unknown Player make money? lol. He used to be one of the most prolific D2 content creators, but now only does "pop ins" with a video every few months. :)

I was there at the beginning and ill be there for the end. I missed alot of the inbetween but idk what my life wouod look like had i kept playing as these are formative years to spend inside playing games

These are so epic. Much love guys massive fan of both channels.

Everyone always raises the point of the shop funding the dungeons like outbreak etc but this annoys me because how did that play out. Funded them but they have now removed these items from the game totally. The removal of the outbreak and whisper dungeons from the game when I look back is the thing that upsets me most as I enjoyed rerunning them so much. Attaching the store to these items as well just provides added annoyance

I could listen to you guys all day. Good stuff covered fellas

I always thought in that cutscene that the traveler wasn’t buried but instead was being birthed by the witness civilization and consciousness? Then when they realized it was a soulless silent god they began to question themselves and others hence why darkness (emotional) powers took over. They probably used every emotion to usher a response from the traveler and when they finally struck it or said the wrong thing it just left and they are still ignorant now just chasing the god they crated eons ago

When you think about it, the witness has no conviction, its goal comes from not having a purpose, so they merge to be mega powerful enough they can decide the fate of something huge, way bigger than them, a purpose born outta boredom, and forced, and thus not being their true nature, and that lack of conviction makes this whole thing so superfluous cuz you know she wont get to reach such goals

Something that frustrates me this and it applies to gaming in general was when marathon got announced turns out it was for a game that years away from being ready. Like the product isnt ready for launch and bungie starts the hype now tho the moral for destiny has been in another low point

I'd love for the Aphellion to get a big stage after Final Shape. Obviously the Vex are going to have a big plot point, but the Aphellion could be a good big bad

I think the vex will become the milk in corporeal form and be like Forespoken enemies. They are filled with the Break, which makes them look white and golden and silver, with higher tiers looking more pristine and like statues.

They should have opened lightfall with the witness cutscene, THEN shown/started the first mission. Showing our mistake of what happens when we attack without knowing anything.

I get your point about microtransactions, but surely if they lose 10-15 million on Eververse by reducing items, moving those artists towards making stuff that can be EARNED in game, creating a chance for more positive sentiment, which then leads to lapsed players like me going "Oh they're doing good, lemme buy some Eververse stuff to show it" would make it back and more. And sure, they're making bank, but that's the whole reason we have a problem with it, we see the bank they're making, and it's not coming back into the game, it's going to Marathon, it's going back into Eververse again etc etc. I"m not trying to make this a doom and gloom comment, but that discussion felt like nothing but excuses, when there is no excuse for the lack of care the game has gotten in recent times. Cool, they're making a 2nd game, great, no problem with that, but why is Destiny just suddenly the cash cow, milking us dry for every penny they can squeeze out of us, and we get the same repeated cycle of content every season, DCV is now worthless with them bringing Vaulted maps back, defeating that whole purpose. Like, surely it isn't that hard to divert workforce from one section, and move it to another, to help rebuild sentiment in the community. Yes, everyone says it's a meme now, but as a Oct 2014 player, that cares deeply for the game, since it's been with me through my lowest lows and now highest highs, Final Shape is literally my final make or break. Might not even get Season Pass, but I'll get Final Shape, and if the itch still isn't being scratched, or if Final Shape is a horrendous story like Lightfall, you know, this is supposed to be the "End of a Saga" event, and guess what, they set my expectations high from previous years, and if they aren't met, I'm very close to quitting, and already am atm. This entire year, granted only 2 seasons, but for me, a guy who played this game DAILY until Feb 2021 (sure, burnout from playing non stop for 7 years, but it still isn't an excuse for mediocrity), to be giving up on the same, old, boring, drawn out, frustrating grind before the Seasonal story finished (I think Week 3-4), that's not good at all. Sure, alienate me by starving me of the quality of content I know the studio is capable of (Forsaken and TTK are PRIME examples of it), there's the loss of a long term paying customer, cool, now try explain what they need to buy to play Destiny at it's best, without telling them "Oh yeah, it's at minimum $190 just to get everything to be caught up, not including Dungeon passes (which Spire and Duality are both Eververse store options only)". I feel like the suggestions most of us 'hardcore' players are asking aren't impossible, and it's feasible, but they don't care about us now, it's just "churn this out to keep the masses happy, forget the loud ones, they'll go away soon enough", when their entire goal is to have as many people playing as they can. Cool, feed the casuals and the part timers who will drop off within the season, or quicker than me, and let's see where those "record player counts" go when you start to piss them off too. Idk, that was just a rant, but like, I'm enjoying BotW on my first playthrough, I'm gonna go through TotK, I got more shit to play, I'm only around for raids to get patterns, and even then, I'm not caring anymore. Like, this is apathy, you know, the thing they don't want that Justin said in their GDC panel, so what's being done about it? You're losing long term consumers, nothing is being done about it.

It's been 3 week that I haven't played at reset, it's been 2 Thursdays that I haven't cared about the TWAB, man I really like this game, but everything just dawned on me. I have done all the GMs already and also got the exotic scout, but is not the same. Watching the video to get some of the love for the game back, thanks guys

I think there's a lot of interesting parallels between the traveler being buried initially on the Witness' planet and the buried Sleeping God in Pathways into Darkness. The Traveler being buried in their planet as opposed to just drifting thru the cosmos is a little too specific imo, like *why* was it buried there?

Honestly though, what is forcing us to follow the witness into the traveler? Our powers are still here, nothing has changed, and no ultimatum has been presented. Even if these issues are retconned in it won’t work, the beginning of the final shape will genuinely feel like we’re just going to his planet and killing him because bad guy. This. Story. Is. In. Shambles🤡

I do like the speculation of why Cayde-6 is there, but what if we have somehow found the back up vault of Cayde-6. There was a hint in the Forsaken when you were finding his stashes that gave final words of his to different figures of the Destiny lore!

Taken seems to be a perfected power mixed with Light and Dark.

Has anyone mentioned the symbols in the Tower? The white circle with the black triangle on it?

About 34 minutes in, a single Vex with a personality, not just a named mind, is what the Vex needs to be interesting. The named minds are simply uninteresting.

I think Ikora opens up the portal for herself, like how she forced open the doorway yo the infinite forest.

I liked the video. There are some audio artifacts during my play thru

Bungie wouldn’t lose money if they made less EV items, the items they make would be better and be purchased by more ppl, AND, they can use the dev time saved to make new content.

Even AGS has forward facing devs and CMs the idea it's a business and therefore no CMs is very meh. Every game needs a 'pitch man' at minimum to explain decisions own them and address community concerns directly or you end up like a game like Lost Ark that put 3 random bozos in charge and the game tanked.

Season of the deep is one of the best seasons in recent memory. Too bad im so burnt out on the game, i just can't truly get into it. Especially after grinding guardian games for reveler. It honestly kinda took the wind out of my sails 😅 fatigue is real and staying loyal to a franchise for 10 years.. it makes sense people are dropping off, we used to drop the game for a year at a time even. Now we hit the game each season I think I've just never had enough time to miss it in a while 😅

What if there is a light equivalent to the "Taken" power? I was intrigued by the part where they were talking about the power behind Cayde's eyes in the cinematic. We know from Lore that the Light gives, and the darkness takes. What if the power behind Cayde's eyes, is the power of something I'm going to call The Given. We know that ghosts have some facets of Darkness in their construction, and that could very well be needed to actually resurrect Guardians in the physical universe, but what if the Traveller can "Give" life using pure Light in this special River place/universe/timeline/(whatever this place ends up being). I'm far from a lore expert, but the idea of this seems intriguing at least and what it could mean going forward

If the witness is after perfect order and perfect order is perfect causality….. what if the final shape is the vex. And the final shape was already achieved as was manifested as creation of the vex

I would just like to say read the eternal champion series by Michael Moorecock and you will see where bungo got their ideas

I think some people see intentions where there may not be. I don’t believe that Chris Barrett and Scott and others in the Marathon video got forced to work on Marathon. They are probably bored of developing Destiny and want something new to do, and they have earned the chance to do that.

Removing key personnel at a key point can effect the game immensely, especially when you’re at a point in time in Destiny, where it’s new DLC will decide its fate. They still have a lot of damage control to work through because of Lightfail. A brief Delay in Marathon would have not damaged it. After Lightfall, I have no faith in The Final Shape. I think the Cayde-6 Cameo was fan service, and Bungie’s way of trying to get people to buy it.

Thank you for the content

Marathon - I personally don’t care about the look of marathon in terms of art style and. What they showed did not make me excited or say “wow that character looks so cool and so do those weapons” Story skip - it should have been free. Ppl asked forever to not have to redo story over and over and they decided to ask you to pay for convenience. Should not have happened. Eververse - they keep increasing the price because it is a business and profits must go up. If you think the devs that are working hard on the game and actually making everything we use def don’t see that money. Only the top ppl in the company and the investors get it. After all they have the most to lose and the lower employees will only lose a job. I don’t think that’s right but that is my just my opinion.

I think the cutscene would have been really cool, if it was being narrated by Savathun

There needs to be a discussion on whether or not Marathon is actually worth getting. Destiny 2 pvp may represent how good Marathon could be.

How has no one noticed the aimilarity between the Witness and the main new threat at the end of Horizon Forbidden West? All these minds blended into one and searching across the stars for it's target?

ANOTHER EPISODE LETS GO

I think part of the discontent with destiny comes from the fact that seasons have completely replaced expansions. Yeah, we're still getting pve campaigns but ritual playlists are kind of a joke. They renamed the strike playlist to vanguard ops to cannibalize season content, but lightfall had one strike. If you're actively playing the season battlegrounds are introduced in, you're sick of them by the time the season is over. Folding them into a playlist a year later is better than sunsetting content entirely, but it's not really breathing life into something the devs want us to engage in weekly either. Yet that's the best case scenario. I think we know how dire crucible and gambit are. Either these are core facets of the game that need a bit more consistent love or we need to stop being expected to constantly play them to finish a season pass.

Lightfall didn't only make me quit Destiny 2, it destroyed any positive interest I had in 'any' live service game. When a company gets things so wrong like Bungie, a live service leader, then there is always a knock on effect for other devs/pubs in the same gaming space. The only live service game I now play is Deep Rock Galactic, I play 5-8 hours a week maximum. DRG is a small game that has a massively focused specificity, it's not a game that has too many gaming branches to tend like Destiny 2. I got into DRG before I quit Destiny, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered with it at all, yah nah, DRG being a live service game. I used to love Destiny 2, but back then live service games were new to me, I was basically a single player campaign gamer before Destiny 2. The game was big, it seemed to have massive 'potential,' I was excited to hear what the Bungie had planned for the future, but all Bungie do is dangle carrots and deliver turnips. The Witch Queen was good, but it wasn't the greatest gaming experience I have had by a long way. I didn't mind Beyond light, Forsaken, and Shadowkeep had some great visuals, oh boy. The marketing for Lightfall went into overdrive, I pre-ordered the deluxe edition (that's on me), I was hoping for gold, something even better than WQ and what I had bought was a piece of coal. Bungie had lied massively, they were deceitful in their marketing, they knew they had a piece of coal and tried to sell it as Silver. When Lightfall was delivered, I now had thousands of hours in game, years of playing and years of Bungie not being able to lie straight in bed. I now hated Bungie with a passion. I had been warned when I first went into Destiny 2 by seasoned veterans of Destiny that Bungie weren't to be trusted, but I was all blush and glow so I didn't listen to them and said to myself "what's wrong with these veteran fuckers, the games awesome!" hahahahaha Fuck! hehehe Yeah, Bungie have not only destroyed my faith in Bungie and whatever they make, but they have made me so sceptical and cynical of anything that has the 'live service game' tag attached to it. I have to say I was already sceptical of the gaming industry in general before I got into Destiny 2, but with Destiny 2 I thought I had found my true gaming home and parked all my smarts, wisdom and logic at the door as I entered the Bungie portal, that is Destiny 2. Nice video btw.

so i checked. pause the witness cutscene at 32 seconds and the final shape trailer at 49 seconds. the rivers are the same shape.. so we could be going to the witness home world.

If you look closely at Cayde's Ace in the FINAL SHAPE teaser, it resembles Traveler's Chosen... The cracks of light.

I get worried when bungie's writers try to do too many things at once. If they're planning 2-6 hour campaign I think they might need to rethink the scope of this last expansion; which probably won't be the last one TBH. I'm so burned out and tired of putting my faith in a developer that just can't deliver anymore. 10 years to figure out that bungie as a dev has zero idea what they're doing. This is a really important lesson that took ten years me as a player ten years to learn; just because a dev. made a popular IP doesn't mean that they will deliver the same quality on future projects. For me the breaking point is the gatekeeping of content through non-matchmade activates. I don't feel like I should need to LFG, and I think bungie doesn't trust it's players AT ALL and has moved in a direction where they hate fun. No literally when was the last time you had fun in destiny and it didn't feel like a pay to work internship.

I remember when this podcast started. Wild how we’re in episode 10

More non micro transaction content in the seasonal events along with more options to purchase items with my 40k bright dust would be nice

But the thing is with the season things you don't have to pay for the season pass to do the seasonal missions to get the greater rewards you have to pay for the season pass but the season missions you can still do you automatically get the cutscene as long as you're doing the missions so if there's things that are talked about in the seasons cutscenes that explains the next DLC or something and some people end up clueless to it because they didn't do the season missions that's their own fault because if they choose to play the game just for the DLC storylines and take a break from it during the seasons that's their decision you can't blame that on Bungie because you can still do the season missions without paying for the season pass as long as it's the active season the current season people that play the game in the past and now should know that don't blame someone else for what you choose to do.

Is there a way to acquire data on the actual player base and in turn what percentage actually pays for MTs and such. If its over 90% then I guess its here to stay.

I can't get behind the idea that opinions don't matter. Of course they do. Exchanging take aways and analyzing them is how we as humans expand our knowledge on a topic. If opinions don't matter, people don't matter. Also, stop selling yourself short. Your opinions and predictions hold more weight than the average player. Your job is to study and analyze the game's story. Your hard work and dedication absolutely earns your take aways more credence than the average "John Destiny" gamer. Love the content, but I think that this rhetoric on opinions devalues your own positions.

I agree that big plot points should be in a main expansion, but devils advocate in me is saying. Well If they reveal everything in an expansion then everyone will complain that there is no relevant story for the whole year. So again they are stuck in a lose/lose situation.

Whenever someone joins a LFG raid and sounds like you they have absolutely no idea what they are doing

If the witness and it's disciples are a metaphor for pursuing perfection and the traveler is a metaphor for growth and chaos, then the storyline maps to how Bungie is lowering expectations in their content creation. The storyline maps to the state of the game.

I wonder if Marathon has changed the scope for Bungie's new ip, Matter. It was also supposed to be pvp based according to some poorly sourced articles on the web.

I enjoyed my time with destiny since destiny 1. It hasn't been the same for a long time. It has been a money grab from bungie for little content that can be enjoyed. What happen to pvp? What happen to unique exotic missions with puzzle solving that required teamwork to complete within the time limit. I'm ok to saying goodbye until a miracle happens

Think the whole reason for Bungie to split up the story in seasons is to get us to buy the seasons to drip feed us a story we're inclined to. It's a horrible, greedy move and makes sense why they increased season prices afterwards.

It fascinates me how people are so involved in the story of this game, not knocking anyone in anyway at all if that’s their bag that’s cool. For me a day one player I don’t think I have ever even watched one cutscene in all these years, and if I was to have to answer questions on the story I would know next to nothing .

I might be a little late to the discussion, but I disagree that important story content is seasons is a mistake - what I feel was a mistake is that so far seasons (mostly) didn't contain important story content. We got used to the fact that seasons are optional story-wise, and the main problem is that that changed without warning. However in my opinion season content should have had more weight from the start. I feel that is why quite often seasons felt so lacking most of the time (at least story-wise) - they didn't really matter.

I just want the writing to be competent at the very least for the final shape… the fact I’m asking for the bare minimum is sad and depressing, but we should all already know that since this is destiny/current bungie we’re talking about

You know what I want to know now that we k ow as much as we do at the current to.e about who the witness is and where the darkness comes from? Wtf are the darkness statues supposed to represent now?

Im in the camp where im interested in Marathon becauseit is a Bungie shooter and they have the best feeling FPS mechanics hands down.... but I'm waiting to see actual game play before I make my judgment whether or not I will actually play it. Ive played other extraction shooters and haven't been hooked yet, like all things... we will see

If they can just make the content great with the microtransations as a plus they won't have to lose money, people will be happy with the game and want to spend more money to help it grow or stay a float.

It’s a joke, but what are most people supposed to think when they hear the words “Final Shape” But I do want to give a special thanks to you Unknown Player and Byf. I have seen and experienced a lot of sad and frustrating things in my life. Y’all were always a positive outlet to distract myself from the world.

I'm at about 31min. I think with the sex we're about to see more about Elsie's time relaps story. The game will probably end with either a reset where our guardian goes with her, or I think we'll actually see something crazier and finally end the loop with her.

I hope it ends. And i hope they don't over deliver. That would be an insult, proving they have been able to produce more this whole time.

Just a thought re Light - if we see/assume that light is white - white is the sum of all visible colors. As The Witness - a sum.

from a viewer perspective, I think a lot of streamers that are leaving the game or doing so to get ahead of the curve. what it boils down to is that this content isn’t fun. A lot of us don’t wanna fucking play it, it’s boring and repetitive, it’s uninspired and it sucks. if I don’t want to personally play something because it’s boring and shitty, I don’t really wanna watch somebody else play it either. A good streamer/youtuber builds a relationship with their viewers, and can gravitate to another game and have people follow them if it is an entertaining or a good title. and that applies regardless of the kind of content you make, whether you are somebody who is playing at the upper echelon of skill levels, or somebody who is just funny as hell and entertaining, or somebody catering to a weird niche audience like the guy who makes crazy builds, so people tired of playing pigeonholed to the meta can try something new. But if the players have fallen out of love with the game, they are not going to really give a shit about the content you make a no matter how good it is. A lot of these Destiny content creators are seeing the writing on the wall and getting out when the getting is good.

but is the cutscene true or a lie?

Really enjoyed this discussion and debate. Agree that although I appreciate why Bungie is reluctant to engage with the community due to racial abuse etc. towards devs and community managers, I do feel that the complete radio silence won’t do either side any favours. Things won’t go back to how they were due to where we’re at with social media etc. but maybe move updates onto their website where it’s a read only update. One small step at a time to move forward I think is needed now

Honestly I think the PVP and marathon thing is a much bigger deal then most think cause that shows you a million of thing bungie isn't wanting to tell you. Like the decrease amount of content or stuff for PVP and then realizing how all that stuff is going into marathon really needs to make you think about what the company will or won't do. While yes Destiny is Bungie only cash cow at the moment just from that situtation alone and not doing any form of communication on it really tells you things might get worse for this game. Which you can probably even compare this back to a situtation with DE (Creators of warframe) where all the heavily hitter of that game moved onto a new project but communicated this a lot better then the Bungie devs. Which again who to say Bungie won't pull staff from the PVE side of things to work on new projects while leaving us with the bill. Edit: I just want to say this after thinking over stuff for a day but Bungie needs to change prespective. They need to do a lot but the thing they need to do most of all to keep the current community is change how they see us for a community then just a money bag to fuel new projects or their company. A lot of us see Final shape as a jumping or stopping point when it launches and a lot of us are probably gonna take that advantage to leave. The real issue though is if Bungie sees it like that and how they want to communicated it to us, maybe they'll try old tricks to keep us or bring in new people like they did lightfall but I think this is the end to some degree for destiny. We've all been on this amazing ride of a game but I think this might be a good time to get off. I hope everyone had an amazing time and still remembers the good that came from this game. I also hope a lot find something new or interesting to play and that just everyone have a great life while they can.

On microtransactions, one of the beats people miss is how much Eververse plays into Destiny's revenue projections and targets. I don't know but most of YT doesn't know either. Like, if brightdust becomes the only currency in Eververse and expansions now cost $80, I probably would not buy another expansion. I've never bought anything in Eververse for silver and likely won't. On content creators leaving, I get it. If Destiny was my job, I'd be exhausted too. I see how playing a game for at least 6 hours a day, every day, and repeating the same content gets draining. I have a regular day job and play Destiny whenever it suits me so I am fine with the game. On PvP, I get the frustration. I don't particularly enjoy PvP specifically because of how analytical it is. Mind, I'm not good at it but it's hard to enjoy when the opposition knows exactly how many bullets kill you and exactly where you'll spawn. While I'd love to see more new maps and game modes (one without supers) I'm not sure any of that addresses the crux of the issue with PvP.

I think xivu is the raid boss and the witness is the campaign final boss. Or the vise versa.