The Fastest AMD APU Mini PC We've Ever Built! Small Foot Print iGPU Power

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This is the fastest Mini iTX SFF AMD APU Powered Tiny gaming PC we have ever built! Powered by the AMD Ryzen 8700G and Backed by 32GB or 8000Mhz DDR5 Ram this thing can Game with out a dedicated GPU!
And with the addition of AMD Fluid motion frames it is a 1080P AAA iGPU Gaming Machine! We used the New M100 or GM100 Mini ITX case that is only 4.3L so it a small form factor powerhouse.
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Kingston Fury Renegade 8000MT/s DDR5: amzn.to/3VCGAVq
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#AMD #Gaming #ryzen #etaprime
00:00 Introduction
00:33 Video Sponsor Ad Spot
01:36 M100 Mini ITX sff APU PC Case
02:16 The Build And Parts Used
05:30 Finishing the build
06:27 Spec overview and Performance
08:02 Benchmnarks
08:48 Horizon forbidden west with and without AMD Fluid Motion Frames
11:05 Cyberpunk 2077 with and without AMD Fluid Motion Frames
12:27 Helldivers 2 no GPU
12:58 Forza horizon 5
13:17 Palworld
13:28 COD MW3
13:46 Final Thoughts

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Опубликовано:

3 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 299

@jordanmntungwa3311 3 месяца назад

AMD needs to release the Ryzen 7 8700G X3D. Can you imagine an APU with 3D cache

@stevenknight95 2 месяца назад

they wont, i guess the 8000G APU is the last apu amd will release or the next gen just rebranding the APU like previous version. AMD now focus on maximize their profit on enterprise market. soon they will give up on diy market.

@Riko_KP 2 месяца назад

What the hell are you talking about? 😂

@spawnkeeper999 2 месяца назад

@@stevenknight95 and how did you come up with this assumption?

@not_so_native_native 2 месяца назад

@@stevenknight95umm no, amd has an apu road map till end of 2025. From strix point(mid 2024-end) expectimg based on the internal memo leakes, is zen 5 and rdn 3.5 up to 16 CUs then in 2025 expecting strix halo, that was leaked to have up to 40 CUs. With rda 3.5 or 4 its unknown. But amd will never give up its APU game, they doo too much development for big companies that they can just trickle it down to consumer PC's. Also its Amds only way to compete with Nvidia, by cutting of Nvidias legs. Why do we need an rtx 3050, if amds apu is a little more expensive but you got it built in to the cpu. The current 780m in the 8700g is on par with 3050 mobile, yet the whole cpu package uses 65w when just the 3050 uses as much power

@MrBrandonLau 2 месяца назад

@@stevenknight95that sounds like something intel or nvidia would do, not AMD

@Tatoebot 3 месяца назад

Fastest ever literally every mini pc RU-vid builder

@nfcerick3634 3 месяца назад

We need to put you in a SkyReach 4 TINY case. You'll love it!

@scott8833 3 месяца назад

you can increase the vram allocated to the iGPU in AMD's adrenaline software, I have a laptop with a 7940HS and while I was planning my new room setup I was planning on running a 4k monitor off of my iGPU (to leave my dedicated gpu for my gaming monitor) so I upgraded my ram from 16 to 48GB to allocate anywhere from 4 to 8gb to vram for my iGPU and it didnt do it automatically. I looked around in AMD's adrenaline software and found that if you go to the "performance" tab, and then the subtab of "tuning" there is an option called "memory optimizer" when I changed this setting I went from the 448MB of dedicated GPU memory to 4GB of dedicated GPU memory for the iGPU when i had the 48GB installed. When I had the 16GB installed it allocated 2GB to VRAM so ig it automatically decides what to allocate, but hey its better than 448MB.

@Fender178 3 месяца назад

I am very impressed that this mini APU PC was able to boot with 8000MT/s RAM installed because faster ram makes rigs throw a bit of a fit. Some post and boot up into Windows but its unstable and others boot into Windows and it is Stable and and after enabling the 8000MT/s on the RAM the PC doesn't post at all or it is unstable after booting into Windows.

@jordanmntungwa3311 3 месяца назад

APUs benefit from faster RAM

@Fender178 3 месяца назад

@@jordanmntungwa3311 True maybe they have a different kind of memory controller vs the non G CPUs since they take advantage of faster RAM and it was 2 sticks of RAM that Eta had installed not 4 which also plays a part in stability.

@acid3129 3 месяца назад

I'm still amazed when I see an APU doing this my first pc had an a8 6600k with a HD6450 IGPU and even new it struggled with anything newer than half life 2 I stuck a dedicated hd 6450 in and forced crossfire just so I could play stuff like 7d2d with my brother

@jasonaltman7164 3 месяца назад

The RAM is over $300!!

@ram64man 3 месяца назад

so about what ddr 4 was when it was just 12 months old,

@Boba_Fett1980 3 месяца назад

i got my 32 gb kit of vengeance rgb for 60 bucks, insane difference

@ram64man 3 месяца назад

@@Boba_Fett1980 that's a now price I'm talking about launch pricing, which held for over 22 months

@EasyFlows 3 месяца назад

@@ram64man i think he is agreeing with you

@YuNherd 3 месяца назад

i read that like vegeta shouting for the numbers

@marccaracal7443 3 месяца назад

A cheaper and less powerfull CPU with a cheap dedicated GPU will give you better gaming performance than this 8700G with a very fast and expensive RAM for the same price. Of course, it will need a bigger case. Though, this APU is quite impressive.

@n0h4ndl3 3 месяца назад

Yeah, I really fell in love with the idea of an SFF build using one of these APUs back when he did the 5700G in a Chopin case, but the more I looked at it and compared it against even things like the low profile rx6400 build, there's just no comparison. Twice the performance for a fraction of the cost. I'm certain these APUs have a use case and I'm still very happy they exist, but I don't think "small gaming PC" is it any longer.

@FilthEffect 3 месяца назад

12400f and an intel Galaxy a380 6gb is around £220 combined. Insane value for light gaming

@protivationsrtcartel2360 3 месяца назад

facts. just add a cheap a580 or something price similar

@stephenxs8354 3 месяца назад

Or any 780m mini pc which would be smaller and 90+% the performance of this. Why it impressive when we have seen so many 780m results already. The Desktop APU is only slightly better at stock and you have to use some seriously overpriced RAM to get any significant benefit over mini pc perf.

@stephenxs8354 3 месяца назад

@@n0h4ndl3 Can't wait for anyone to show me a reasonable use case for the 8xxx desktop apus at current pricing.

@-Arkelon 2 месяца назад

Just bought all the rig today . I"m anxious to receive in two days . I will let you to know the results soon . Thank you

@ihabhachamy1446 2 месяца назад

How is it?

@Whiteshade Месяц назад

@@ihabhachamy1446 Eta was playing 1080p with fsr set to performance it means it is 540p actually. And FSR doesn't scale well with low resolution, it is fine with 4k quality, which is 1440p. How can it be? For real usage it is so bad I wouldn't even reccommend to my enemy. For youtube, it is a fun content to watch.

@KtotheL 3 месяца назад

i like it, but ill continue to wait. thanks

@wkcecil123 3 месяца назад

So many devices that are the fastest ever!

@graycat117 3 месяца назад

“THE FASTEST MINI PC YET!”

@longlostleaf 3 месяца назад

Tech improves everyday, life is good.

@thegamerfe8751 3 месяца назад

Yeah no, they aren't releasing new APUs and components for this kind of stuff every day, he just picks and chooses what he likes and makes a video about it. If the build in this video is the fastest then it means previous videos that are one to two weeks old titled the same way are quite literal lies because the components have been available for a bit.

@dylanallen7720 3 месяца назад

Yall get so mad about his titles its hilarious!

@nikytamayo 3 месяца назад

Fastest *AMD APU Mini PC* he's ever built. Not fastest ever. You guys are getting boring. But engagement boosts views, so... well... knock yourselves out.

@vladpcbuild8680 3 месяца назад

Good job

@moist4444 2 месяца назад

Big ups for testing Helldivers 2

@andrewvickers4487 Месяц назад

Great video! As a DIY newbie I'm interested in comparing the cost-effectiveness of SFF iGPU builds like these with the plethora of mini pcs we have now, i.e. upgradeability of DIY vs buying multiple mini pcs over the next decade say.

@johnjakson444 2 месяца назад

A PC build I'd like to build is a Borg Cube, prob 8" or 200mm cubed, the metal sheilding would have vent holes in very random patterns with green led lighting

@rael_gc 3 месяца назад

I'm missing in the Final Thoughts, the graphic with max watt, temps and noise.

@turboshot7321 Месяц назад

what a machine!!

@88-bit-tech 3 месяца назад

Awesome little build! Crazy performance with an apu! I'm curious to see what the difference would be if you used 4800 MT/s RAM. I haven't seen many videos compare the lowest vs highest ddr5 with APU's. Also slight correction, Helldivers 2 does not have FSR. It uses it's own render scaling that is terrible compared to fsr or dlss

@mauricioleonardo5871 3 месяца назад

nice, try retrobat with it !!!

@KAYMEER 3 месяца назад

Might as well use a HDPlex PSU and a 4060 Low Profile in a different case of the same volume

@yanushkowalsky1402 15 дней назад

Which case

@YuNherd 3 месяца назад

Please add decent cooling and revisit this, will be interesting if the numbers change, thanks

@megatar3 Месяц назад

This is awesome! I’ve been looking for a mini build small enough to travel easily with that can still play some less intensive games like CS2. This would be perfect! A GPU would make it just slightly too big

@megatar3 Месяц назад

I’m going to buy the same RAM as my full size build, so if it’s not enough for this build, I can still use it to double the ram on my desktop

@Karti200 3 месяца назад

You could make it even smaller - just use a PicoPSU and poof - case will be in size of just mITX motherboard

@juanmatus5708 3 месяца назад

It doesn't make it smaller. You could tow a battery for an EV instead of directly installing it into the frame. Does it make the car smaller and lighter?

@summonedskull7767 3 месяца назад

Do you no longer do emulation? I have noticed (could just be me) that you haven't done emulation in a while when you showcase some of these new builds. I am a huge fan of emulation and love to see the demos.

@a9udn9u-vanced 3 месяца назад

This is genuinely the fastest APU out there so the title is fine.

@mrshinobigaming8447 3 месяца назад

Minisforum hx100G It has 6650 as gpu

@noahosmond3154 2 месяца назад

Can't wait for Strix Halo!

@turboimport95 3 месяца назад

nice, i play the forbidden west as well I run it at 60 fps vsync 4k, no upscaling at max settings, looks sweet on my 4080 and 7800x3d, 32gb ram combo. The mini itx boards are not cheap at all, i got the b650i edge wifi and it was $$$.

@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe 3 месяца назад

Nice man. I'm playing it as well on my 4070ti and i5 13600k at 1440p ultra no upscaling I'm getting about 85fps.

@joshuascholar3220 3 месяца назад

I would have liked to see some better quality settings. Like turn FSR off or to Quality.

@justinpatterson5291 3 месяца назад

So this is kinda like a 7940HS on desktop wattage and given super fast memory. Nice.

@MrFrankieMatarrese 3 месяца назад

Exactly that. It's upsetting that these are being marketed like some new thing when it's 1.5x the price of buying a beelink ser7 for ~5% the performance differential

@sc9433 3 месяца назад

If you mess with the ram timings, u can squeeze another 20-30% more fps out of the iGpu. 8000mhz + ram timing tweaks = godlike performance for radeon780m. Something only the desktop variant can achieve. 7840hs is for too restricted.

@MrFrankieMatarrese 3 месяца назад

@sc9433 where are you getting 8000 mhz ram that will last at that speed? And what motherboard is supporting it for a reasonable price? The answer is you are not. You might as well buy literally any modern GPU at that point.

@slothnium 3 месяца назад

8000Mhz RAM is like 2x the price of 6400Mhz for the same capacity... You can squeeze in a dGPU if you go with 6000Mhz and a AM5 CPU.

@dim3nt0 3 месяца назад

@@MrFrankieMatarrese i dont like the price either but its wildly more reliable, can be pushed harder, cooled more effectively, basicaly better in every way but size

@physxme 3 месяца назад

That's great you can get the board for 130, where I live this costs about 193 in USD.

@ArtemisKitty 3 месяца назад

Yeah, I noticed right away that was the only item he DIDN'T list in the hardware links... NE seems to have it for 140USD though. So not that bad. Free shipping from the United States as well. (I guess they're covering the VAT and customs. Not gonna complain.)

@catsspat 3 месяца назад

I love small computers! In fact, most of my computers are small to tiny. Only two are biggy: a TrueNAS server and a gaming build.

@Scooter30FTW 3 месяца назад

I figured that RAM would be expensive,but 300 bucks? Wow!

@Redsing_ART 3 месяца назад

hey what think about using hd-plex psu it can help significantly reduce case volume

@Amp5150 3 месяца назад

APU's are so close to being there

@stephenxs8354 3 месяца назад

This is already a year old tech.

@aboriginalmang 3 месяца назад

@@stephenxs8354 nah its an almost 30 year old tech, it started with intel's i740 based motherboard iGPU in the late 90s

@gogogagagugu2134 3 месяца назад

IMO they already are there, the fact that you can get these games to comfortable framerates on low settings without a GPU is already super impressive, and they're only gonna get better

@si4632 3 месяца назад

Still think a Xbox series s is better value lol much better

@aboriginalmang 2 месяца назад

@@gogogagagugu2134 we already could do that back when ryzen 2200G was launched for $100. APUs are just getting more expensive nowadays.

@MaartenOtto 3 месяца назад

Would like to see MSFS over NYC on this one as well as Virtual Pinball X with the Leprechaun King or Spongebob table.

@jasonhemphill8525 3 месяца назад

Emulation performance?

@gordong11 3 месяца назад

I wish they would put an oculink port on some ITX motherboards.

@maccagrabme 2 месяца назад

Whats that?

@jeofthevirtuoussand 3 месяца назад

and yet, if devs actually managed to code sampler feedback streaming and the full mesh shading pipeline , the performance would be way higher , optimization

@elvendragonhammer5433 3 месяца назад

Good devs also make full use of occlusion & scene culling- so if from the player's viewpoint, you can't see the backside of a building, terrain, tree, etc, it doesn't waste time rendering it in the pipe & if it's needed again, most of the textures are already buffered in ram from rendering the front & one side of the object. Nanite is also a great help with making iterative objects (like trees, stationary landscapes) while keeping the CPU/GPU load much lower than it would be conventionally.

@Rexolaboy 3 месяца назад

Fabio Fabrisco has a video on ddr5 tuning for the am5 specifically for IGPUs that I think you should watch. Ddr5 6400 tuned is faster than 8000mt without tuning usually.

@SpoonHurler 3 месяца назад

I was just about to ask about this cause 6400 is the max for 1:1 gear ratio. At worst the tuned 6400 would have improved 1% lows and faster latency.

@klem5 3 месяца назад

would like some higher quality presets on cyberpunk tested

@ferreiros1987 2 месяца назад

Hi, could you please try out Star Citizen on that rig on 1080p

@zadekeys2194 3 месяца назад

With AM4 and most games, lower latency ram (CL14 with 2666mhz) delivers the same performance as CL16 3600mhz ram. It would be interesting to see how the iGPu performs if you tighten the timings of it's Ddr5 :)

@GUCFan 3 месяца назад

Really hope we can achieve GPU-less VR at some point. Even if its just to build a PC meant to run Beat Saber, it would be amazing to play VR titles with such a small PC.

@Terreos 2 месяца назад

This build is right around $800. For that price you can go for much more affordable RAM and CPU. Then put that towards a $300 GPU. This really isn't impressive for how expensive it is. A great tech demo of how much the 780m can be with faster RAM and a more powerful CPU behind it. But no one should be trying to mimic this.

@upsidediy3945 3 месяца назад

Somewhere out theres a wii steering wheel and accessories bundle, that can use this computer and my wii.

@AlwaysExtraCrispy 3 месяца назад

This is where the handhelds like the Ally and Legion GO shine. You can't build an equivalent system (in terms of performance and form factor) for less.

@stephenxs8354 3 месяца назад

How does handhelds even come into discussion about a desktop.

@AlwaysExtraCrispy 3 месяца назад

@@stephenxs8354 Ally and LeGO use Z1 Extreme APUs. There's no point in building a mini desktop for this price otherwise - just get a gaming laptop if you want small form factor ...you're still gonna need a keyboard and mouse and screen anyways...

@Bob_Smith19 3 месяца назад

@@stephenxs8354They don’t. People see to forget that PCs are used for more than games. More people use them for production tasks than gaming.

@rtamayo004 14 дней назад

Can you do a video on the 8700G on Batocera?

@necotots 2 месяца назад

Could you try to use the single-slot RTX A2000 that you modified recently?

@ArouzedLamp 3 месяца назад

Do you think the apu would benefit from having 4x sticks of ram, much like a ton of the cpus on am4? I know a ton of 7000 cpus are/were having problems with four sticks.

@SpoonHurler 3 месяца назад

Not with the current ddr5 ram cause motherboards and the memory controllers on the CPUs are geared to do it. High end AM5 motherboards might have the trace paths for it though and you could get a stronger imc on your chip but there are no guarantees

@Nektopoulo 3 месяца назад

I see a vert slot, could you add a lower cooler and a LP video card on a riser?

@greendro6410 3 месяца назад

Great 😁

@LucasWildTheeWildBoy 3 месяца назад

Does this case work ok with single slot GPU cards like the AMD 6400?

@rahul875 3 месяца назад

Ch160 build video plz

@am_ma 2 месяца назад

I wished that you test those games with higher settings and lower resolutions meaning better quality settings because some of those games didn't look like what the game graphics should be like Cyberpunk77.

@randomxaos 3 месяца назад

You didn't mention the max speed of the SSD. Is this important?

@Neopulse00 3 месяца назад

5:25 - Yeah, I'm used to seeing those ugly "ketchup and mustard" cables when using FSP and other Flex psus. 8:30 - Oh snap 4,125?! Didn't think it'd surpass 3,400.

@adamgaming5693 Месяц назад

hello, I've already seen your tests of mini itx and mini pc, what would you choose between 8700g or mini pc 8845hs, what are your opinions on these two sets cpu? Thanks

@typerightseesight 3 месяца назад

looks like an awesome runescape 3 machine. lol

@azjeep 2 месяца назад

Why does task manager show 2 of 4 sticks used? that motherboard allow for oc memory?

@technicianscott9245 Месяц назад

How does it handle emulation? Whats the generation limit?

@justinhalen2126 3 месяца назад

What you can also do to make the most out of these iGPUs is (assuming you have 32GB of Ram) put the settings to the lowest (or maybe just use antialiasing and 16x AF) and then use ultra textures since technically you have 16GB of Vram. The games will look way better.... I'm not sure if there is a performnce pentalty for doing this on an igpu, but i dont think its significant.

@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe 3 месяца назад

No performance penalty for textures as long as they don't start spilling into system ram due to lack of vram.

@Saif0412 3 месяца назад

Waiting for 8000mt or faster RAM on handhelds 😎

@Neopulse00 3 месяца назад

That'd be insane actually.

@Stifle9 3 месяца назад

Just finished a similar build in a 2.1L (LLW V21pro ) case. Pico PSU with LOF225-20B12 AC-DC unit for brickless power. 8600G, 6000mhz CL30 DDR5, Gigabyte A620 ITX, Thermalright AXP90 X36 cooler, Sk hynix 1tb m.2. Gonna wait for a used 8700G to come around and for high speed ram to get cheaper. Haven't had any problems, one of my favorite tiny builds.

@midsbv8960 3 месяца назад

how is the temp of the cpu in idle and full load? i have a v21pro lying around and planning to put 8600g or 8700g on it but im a bit hesistant because of temps. I was planning on selling it and settle to at least a v26pro (wanted to keep the size as small as possible) if the temps is going to be an issue. thanks

@Stifle9 3 месяца назад

@@midsbv8960 I just installed a trio of 5010 exhaust fans because I had them on hand, almost ready to do some stress testing as I have only just gotten the parts together and OS installed. if you can remind me by replying to this comment in a week or so I should have some data to share

@Stifle9 3 месяца назад

@@midsbv8960 I have a V21pro, V26 pro(not used) and a V36pro that I have as my daily. They are great little cases

@midsbv8960 3 месяца назад

@@Stifle9 oh no worries im still not yet close in buying the parts, so im not really in a hurry. i also have 3 5010 fans so im curious on what temps you will get. anyway ill probablly just comment you here in a week or two if its ok. thanks in advance!

@midsbv8960 2 месяца назад

@@Stifle9 hi! just wondering if theres any update on this? thanks!

@blaster-vv8so 3 месяца назад

I bought that same case in black about a month ago and love it but it seemed hard to install the motherboard i had to remove front io

@itsdeonlol 3 месяца назад

Cool case!

@josephfasulo522 3 месяца назад

Think this setup is overkill for batocera?

@kasperspangejensen5496 3 месяца назад

Better than my GTX 1070. Perhaps it's time to go APU.

@stephenxs8354 3 месяца назад

If your spending so much for ITX then why go APU when discrete is cheaper and faster.

@keibohow69 3 месяца назад

whats the max refresh rate that can be had with this apu?

@sehdabi 3 месяца назад

I need to see the 8700g game with 10,000mhz ram. @_@

@TheBillyTalon 3 месяца назад

Would cyberpunk 2077 run at 60fps on medium with Fluid Motion Frames?

@ipoopmuffins 3 месяца назад

I’m surprised a base 620 board supported 8000mhz ram, that’s awesome

@swazy1777 3 месяца назад

could you try using fsr 3 mod with frame gen

@mr.dilanger 2 месяца назад

Was that the same memory in the 8600g build? If it is good grief it went up in price!

@QuentinStephens 3 месяца назад

How does this compare to the single slot A380?

@eskimolost2012 3 месяца назад

so adding the single slot a380 be less powerful than 8700g?

@christianponopp8756 3 месяца назад

I would have been great if you had showb the diggerenve between standard DDR5 spec 4800mt/s and your 8000mt/s RAM😅

@krazycharlie 3 месяца назад

Emulation test, please! Thanks in advance!

@arjunkrishnambyil6436 3 месяца назад

Please use a different cooling system for this chip in that same case a more powerful cooling like customise.....

@JC7119 3 месяца назад

I'm curious how this would be overclocked. I feel like the CPU could definitely take advantage of the faster ram with the faster chip when overclocked. Like I bet 3200 to 3300mhz on the APU would benefit big from from the faster ram.

@jeffgilleese6332 3 месяца назад

Please test this system compared to consoles. Test for the max native resolution that maintains a stable 30fps. How does it compare directly against a Series S at like for like settings?

@jeffgilleese6332 3 месяца назад

Test 2077 and zero dawn native 1440p medium settings 30fps cap. And CoD III 1080p native 60fps cap. No FSR. I keep hearing people say you can't game on a PC with a shared RAM pool of DDR. And also consoles can't run as PCs do to their use of GDDR in their RAM pool. I'm sure both are very possible. I just need someone to test a system using shared RAM at resolutions and frame rate caps the consoles use for direct comparison. Unfortunately it's illegal to mod a console to run a PC OS and no one makes a PC that uses GDDR as main system Ram to test it's functionality as a general desktop PC.

@pawnslinger1 3 месяца назад

How about hi-end emulation- Lbox and ps3, xbox360??

@kert1842 2 месяца назад

Genuine question, why use stock cooler when you can get coolers like IDcooling is55? Or other low profile cooler.

@Ancient_West 3 месяца назад

I like the color of your nails in the thumbnail.

@DonItaluca 14 дней назад

Dommage que asrock ne permette pas de modifier dans le bios la taille de la ram alloué pour la petite vidéo 😢

@PeteSaJut6499 3 месяца назад

Think I could fit the Wraith spire cooler on the A09? This case is 20mms and the A09 is only 89mms in width

@OafishWither 3 месяца назад

how would it perform in this setup after overclocking the GPU?

@samserious1337 3 месяца назад

There is not much headroom, you might gain more performance by tweaking the timings of the RAM.

@SpoonHurler 3 месяца назад

@@samserious1337 I don't think you can overclock on the A620 but I might be wrong

@alexrahardjazh 3 месяца назад

This case if adding the new gpu a low progile.gpu can it fit?

@backbenchers9282 3 месяца назад

does this case support graphics card?

@user-wp1pd3sh4y 3 месяца назад

Do you sell that build?

@Mirror576 2 месяца назад

Why isn't there a link to the motherboard?

@richardmcgowan1651 3 месяца назад

I can never find these small cases.

@megatar3 Месяц назад

Listing for the case says it can fit a gpu with a thickness up to 25mm…are there even any gpu’s that thin??

@MrThejackal99 2 месяца назад

It was my understanding that with Zen 4 you should not go above 6000 as it will cause a desync between CMX and IO die which give a performance decrease is some situations? If you retest at 6000 and maybe CL 28-30 how would scores change?