looking forward to your vid about villager pathing after building a TC or mine lumber mill! 1. what spots they go to. 2. which res they prefer and when.
Portuguese is a naval civilization. Feitorias are good in maps where resources run out. Water maps run out of resources very fast. Feitoria is just another naval bonus.
Yea. I'm thinking that's the main draw of it as well. In high Elo it's not a problem. But Micro is often a problem in low Elo. So more Micro on military and less at home sound good right?
More thoughts on Feitoria: - Going fast Imp and building multiple Feitorias to get a short economy lead (since enemy is bound by TC worktime while you build mutliple Feotorias at once)? - Savings on Conversion/Camps. You don't need 60 wood a farm nor wood for Lumber/Mining camps. - Might be especially useful on a drawn out Islands games in which res (especially wood) are much more scarce and more important for unit creation.
The Viper aka the best player in the world have been experimenting with a tactic quite similar to what you described but on arena. It actually turned out to be viable.
I was kindof hoping SoTL would've calculate if it worth setting up feitorias for 1800 + 500 resource / instance (+ houses), relatively fast, compared to the 400 resource + creation time + camp / farmcost + extra tc cost, if then how you transition back to making vills after you reach the pop limit, now deleting feitorias also you still need like 8-10 vills or more on farm, if you want upgrades, for arbalesters and chemistry, and at least 2 on building houses the others can handle the mining / making feitorias
That's one thing that SotL kind of overlooked in this video. Sure, selling all of your wood might produce more gold than the Feitoria, but now you're out of wood. With the Feitoria, you retain all your wood for the cost of a little less gold, but this is especially important (as you say) when wood runs out. Thinking of the islands game between Viper and Hera when the wood ran out, and wood become more valuable than gold in that situation.
Not really. Can't see many situations where I was so confident the game would go on that I'd invest 250 stone without expecting it to pay for itself for 13 minutes...
after playing with them for a bit id say they are okayish on closed maps like black forest where games are usually above 1:30hours, but they are really really good an shit like team islands, they are worthless on any open map
3:35 Look at that villager boi (inferior left corner) trying to chop wood at the very Lumber Camp ! The cutest thing is that he looks quite determined and good-natured while doing so.
Another alternative idea to use the Feitoria, is in team games, where you got team mates who are have really good eco bonuses when harvesting Stone, and Gold, such as Poles, who generate gold along side stone, so letting your teammate harvest the stone instead of you, would be beneficial for the entire team goal, and you can build the Feitoria and sling resources for eternity to push your entire team further faster when the resources are gone.
Very true, 1) save resources to build extra TC 2) much faster way to produce villagers (go up to 120 villager in 5 minutes) 3) no fear for harassment(either full blow attack or u can defend very well)
This is something I was curious about- how long does the edge from fast imp into Fetorias take before a regular 3TC build overshoots it? I'm a little fuzzy on the standard times and production rates for all of these, but dropping a couple of fetorias early on seems like it would be a lot faster to start up than 3TCs into vil production, even though it isn't the best long term investment. Then it would be a weird corner case where the food/wood economy is being fueled by the fetoria instead of the late-game emphasis on gold and stone, just based on how quickly it can get started up.
@@ericprather4257 Not exactly your question as that's a bit harder to work out but I did the maths on constructing a Feitoria with a single vill at the start of imp vs queueing vills from one TC. Even with just one builder, there's a window from the 3-6 minute mark where your Feitoria has produced more resources. If you commit 4 vills onto the Feitoria then the window where it's produced more resources than queueing up vills goes from 1 to 9 minutes after hitting Imp. Accounting for the time taken to build TC's in the Castle age, that basically gives an 8 minute window where fast Imp into Feitoria is better than a 3 TC boom in terms of raw resources collected, perhaps even a minute or two longer if you still make some extra vills alongside the Feitoria.
@@AviSandy Ah, so Chinese-Indian was not too far off. :D Nice. I will check it out. I am German myself so maybe I will learn something about us. Hopefully that you like it here. Stay safe though!
This is only a game we all love but damn... Spirit of the Law you're such a master of strategic and economic thinking! Hope you work in that sector too. You would do a damn good job sir!
Hi SotL, love your vids, and I love the Feitoria. I was very excited to see this on my timeline. While you did mention it, I think you didn’t give enough precedence to how quickly one can boom with Feitorias. It really is one of their best selling points. If you go fast imperial and slap down 3 or 4 feitorias, your eco will be capped out SUBSTANTIALLY faster than an opponent who does castle age with 2 or sometimes even 3 TCs. The time it takes to build 1 building is substantially less than that of 20 vills. Also, the intrinsic scarcity of resources on water maps combined with the Portuguese unique Elite Caravel makes them formidable. On maps where even wood runs out relatively early, me and my six feitorias and elite caravels will have no trouble overrunning opponents. I love your vids and I’m glad to see the Feitoria getting attention, but I feel it’s a bit better than you gave it credit for. Hope this insight is helpful, and I highly recommend Feitoria rushing against AI on island maps... it’s a whole lot of fun.
I wanna touch on the point of speed of (re)booming. This might be the best reason how the feitoria can be used in (high level) competitive play. While most civilizations will opt for reaching castle age quickly to build additional TC's to speed up the rate at which they can produce villagers, the portuguese can go for a fast imperial age to build feitorias. When performed correctly, the player can reach imperial age around 22 minutes and drop 1 or two fietorias immediately, while making houses to cover the hefty population cost. Eventhough the investment is significant and the efficiency of resource income isn't the greatest, it is a tactic that gives a significant spike in economic boom upon reaching the imperial age. With this spike of economic income around the 25th minute, plus the advantage of being in imperial age while your enemy is still in castle age, slowly building towards their conomic boom by increasing their villager number gradually, the portuguese have a window of opportunity to put pressure. The awkward part is when the initial pressure doesn't work out for the portuguese player. When both players are approaching the pop limit (of 200 villagers) the portuguese will notice that their economy which is based primarily on feitorias will not provide enough resources to sustain an army that is able to combat against the army of the opponent. The portuguese player now has to decide if he wants to delete the feitorias to open pop space for the more efficient villagers. On the other hand, there is the very longterm benefit of having feitorias. Do you delete the feitorias in order to redistribute your economy after your initial fast imperial age play, with the consequence that the initial investment has never been returned, and the population has to be refilled by investing another couple of hundred food into new villagers, or do you try to hold on with inferiour army numbers hoping to reach that point where your feitoria is generating resources that otherwise are difficult to obtain (gold, stone, and in rare cases wood)? Personally I tend toward a fast imperial age with a couple of feitorias, then delete those for popspace for the more efficient villagers, and then in very lategame make new feitorias. However, as you can see there is a major issue here, and that is that investing into feitorias at the time you need them most, the cost of 250g and 250s is rather unfortunate. In the end I must draw the conclusion that the feitoria currently is only useful in 2 situations: 1) you go for a fast imperial age play, and you kill your opponent before you reach the pop-cap of 200 population 2) on a map with a lack of resources, you start the game normally. In the case it ever gets to the point that resources become extremely limited, you invest into feitorias and you win the attrition war. option 1 only works on a few maps like Arena. option 2 only on very specific custom maps (like forest nothing!) or on maps where you are more likely to run out of wood (like islands)
I have been practicing fast imperial + feitoria boom in arena/fortress. It works surprisingly well, you don't need to be Viper to do it. A feitoria produces like 9 villagers, so it allows to catch up to an enemy that was booming while applying immediate pressure with gunpowder. Even though you get close to 200 pop fast, the enemy tends to stay below 100 so it doesn't even matter. You also save all the farm upgrades because the feitorias produce so much food.
What you forgot to factor in your calculation is that feitoria can be build fast enough by 2-3 villagers while producing 20 villagers takes considerably more time, especially if you rush imperial age and want to attack fast with cannons etc.
jocaguz18 Literally literally has a secondary meaning of figuratively. Not that dictionaries necessarily decide definitions, but it is a tracking of definitions. And the dictionaries say literally has a secondary definition more akin to figuratively, because people say it. Get over it.
Lee Blake No. At the rate language changes you’ll lose, like every person who worshiped the established literary rules before you. Language isn’t sacred. It’s only purpose is to communicate. If it’s function is no longer suited by what they teach you in textbooks, it is the textbooks that change. Artificially maintaining a language happens. Latin for example. And they are helpful for naming. But they do not keep up with people and how they communicate.
Great thing about feitoria is that it doesnt open holes into your base, unlike lumberjacks. Also, it makes it harder for your opponent to deny you resources by keeping you trapped in your base.
You indirectly touched on this, but I think the best use of the Feitoria is the way Viper has used it. A way to insta-boost your eco when going fast Imp. It gives you a better chance of delivering that knockout punch quickly.
Another advantage of feitorias is that they don't need education. If you do a super fast imperial instead of upgrading your villies (farms, lumberjack, gold, stone and town center upgrades) you can just build feitorias and they still give you the same amount of resources. What pays itself faster? 1 town center and 20 villagers (with upgrades) or a feitoria? What takes more time? Building a feitoria or a town center with 20 villagers? Also, you use "ideal values" from low population management, but its a lot harder to get those values with 80 population while you are managing military units. Comparing the exact values from a Imperial feitoria to the ideal post imperial villagers is unfair! Finally: I love you and all your videos 😍
I think you missed the biggest advantage of the Feitoria, which is the build time and resource cost. 10 vils take significantly longer to make (250s) than 1 feitoria being built by a single villager (120s), and you can build them with multiple villagers. It's a significant advantage in a fast imp scenario, where the fast imp player is probably far behind in villagers. Getting feitorias up quickly after hitting imp makes your economy closer to the opponents, which is a big deal when you're an age up on them. The lack of a wood/food cost means you can skip some farming and use that excess wood for production buildings and units, which makes for a much smoother economic transition. Setting up 30 farms costs 1800 wood + 600 food. 4 feitorias costs 1000 gold/stone, which is less total resources, and resources that your military, upgrades, and production buildings aren't competing for as much.
The food income for feitorias is also pretty significant in a fast imp. Viper was making only wood & gold units, and he had enough food to always have vills queued up, and even could sustain 2TC boom. Obviously, long term, feitorias aren't worth it if you can't win fast enough(just like any fast imp strat). But it gives a pretty big short term eco boost for low eco strats.
Someone else also pointed out on AoEZone that if you go mostly feitoria for your economy you can save on getting all the wood, gold, food, and stone eco upgrades. You also dont have the cost of building additional TC's if you wanted to go 1 TC and then drop feitorias.
i think teamgames with lose teams would be hella cool for that, build feitoria, have your friend unally you and convert it and push him to like 400+ pop and make him an Eco monster :D
TheViper's videos show you can quickly get to imperial age and build 4-5 Fetoria while your opponent is trying to boom with 3 town centers. It takes time to get 10 villagers out of a town center, and a Fetoria is built much faster. It basically offers a strong early imperial age push.
Sotl please give us a breakdown of the choices players have to make in the feudal, 10-20 minutes of the game is super impactful and everyone just fastcastles. . .
The main place I see this being useful is, like, late game team islands, where cutting down all (or nearly all) the wood on the map is completely feasible after “only” an hour or two and market costs can spiral so out of control that even gold from trading becomes impractical.
When it comes to reboom quickly, feitorias actually help a lot in some stategies like fast Imperial with one tc: you go up, buil a couple of feitorias, and you can allow to make arbalest, hand cannoneers or bbc probably faster then going for a traditional fast imp.
They should make it so that you can send villagers to work in the feitoria, with the feitoria's production speed being dependent on how many villagers are working in it, instead of it automatically taking 20 pop space
Spirit is truly a clever dick when he can legitimately link a Presidential candidate concerned with unfettered automation harming employment to AOE2. Man is genius.
Hi Spirit. It would've been interesting to throw in some timings for standard maps where natural resources become thin where it would be nice to switch to Feitorias. But otherwise thanks for allthe content.
@@TheRealXartaX US has more people in prison per capita now than USSR had in gulags (which were closed in the 60s). I'd be less concerned about nonexistant gulags in a country which hasn't existed for decades than the police/surveillance state and prison industrial complex which exists in the US today.
@@xdeser2949 You realize that when the actual communist leaders get in charge some of the first people they get rid off are communist ideologues, right? Because they don't want another revolution to their revolution. Also, a "fascist" can be whatever those in power define it as. @greenbrick Comparing Gulags to US prison system is not valid. At all. For example, at it's height the YEARLY mortality rate in Gulags was around 20%. And as far as I know they don't put political opponents in prison in the US etc. There are plenty of valid criticisms to give about the US prison system, but comparing it to gulags ain't one of them.
People like to forget that just like how the Feitoria costs 250 gold and stone, 20 villagers would cost 1000 food and take 500 seconds (8 min 20 sec) to create-longer than the 120 seconds to build a Feitoria, which can be further sped up by using more villagers to build (though obviously you'd lose some resource gathering time). Also, population efficiency only matters when you're already at 200 pop, which means what SotL mentioned at 7:35 can also apply if you for example rush to the imperial age. It doesn't have to be that you're rebooming.
The biggest thing I find with the Feitoria is you can use it when everyone else is stuck marketing wood for gold and stone in the post-imperial. The gold is especially useful as it comes out in almost the precise ratio for Champions.
I'd also like to see a theoretical analysis of feitoria usage that takes into account that you're essentially "building" the equivalent of 8-10 villagers instantly (or as long as it takes to build). I have to imagine that there can be a decent length of time where a person going fast Imp could actually have effectively more eco 'units' than someone doing a standard fast castle boom, especially considering the feitoria doesn't cost food so you could simultaneously create vils. Having seen games with them recently it just SEEMS like there are more disposable resources available for the portugese player for a good 10 minutes after they hit imp and build 1-2 feitorias.
Would've loved to see how much wood/food from the vills is left after selling it to match the gold/stone what the feitoria produces. And also compare the time it take for the vills to pay for themselves compared to the feitoria.
While the Fetoria costs 250 gold and 250 stone, 20 villagers cost 1000 food and take time to produce. That has to count for something right? I feel like he overlooked that.
I feel like the calculations should be different. You keep talking about efficiency vs villagers but then you should add the time to make vils also. Where if you would boom with villagers to 25 minutes or so or as a portugese with feitoria.
Never underestimate conveniance in games like this!!!! Being abe to focus your attention elsewhere means you will be better in that other thing you focus on.
Its gonna be very useful on islands. Remember there's a game between Hera and Viper, it turns into 3 galleons vs 3 galleons and all farms exhaust and trees are gone. They have to wait the relic gold to buy wood and make galleons.
The case of getting fast eco up isn't so small. You can build a strategy around going fast imp, not building eco, then catching up in eco by 1) adding feitoria and 2) attacking/raiding with imp units vs their castle age units.
It would be cool to see this thing useful but it would need a massive buff. I would be cool to see this replacing the castle but with all the castle features included(arrows, unique units and techs etc)
