The Final Countdown(1980): Can The 1941 Attack On Pearl Harbour Be Prevented? | Reenactment 

It was also used with carrier footage for a movie they used to show on the USS Intrepid when it was first made into a museum but before the recent refurbishment.

Next Gen Theme was our on the Big E

What? I was sure that they were converted AT-6 Texans converted to look like A6M Zeros.

@@gosquidgo1 hes talking about the dcs game not the movie, in dcs there are no zeroes

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SVY7w9DqZ_A.html&feature=emb_logo

"He's rolling."

@@guitarsolosonbass2744 Curious that there aren't any Zeroes. No Pacific missions, I suppose. I suppose the Fw-190 is a pretty decent stand-in for the Zero.

Interesting idea however I think Element of surprise is better

IMO i would NOT prevent pearl harbour. i would wait until the USA entered the war then join up

@@GodAtum wrong, your first duty being the Captain and the oath you took is to protect the USA, and knowing the History of what is about to happen, i would make sure to attacxk the Japaness before they got there planes off the deck, with the decks full of planes full of fuel maybe 1 hit on eaxch carrier would sink them, they full sure after there carries are done they would be out of the war very fast, just think about the Zero's trying to attack out carrier lol, those mini guns would eat them up not even counting the fighter protection

Under this scenario and following your rules, if I were the Admiral, I honestly think I'd send ONE Intruder with a single B61 and drop it just slightly out of range of the IJN fleet, then let them know the NEXT one will be dead center and there won't be a damn thing they could do to prevent it. I'd wait a reasonable amount of time for them to recover aircraft and turn for home. But the second Intruder would be sitting on the cat........waiting. No sense in killing them as a display of this level of firepower should take the fight right out of them. I guess the next step would be to head for Europe. Rinse and repeat.

Ah, I see, catch them on their way back!

_Zero_ pun intended.

The scream we hear in the film is actually from the pilots wife when she was shown the footage

No it wasn't it was from the actress

@@19Clutch69 its a joke lmao

That stall is terrifying. Tomcat is a friggin widowmaker.

@@grimreapers The A-Model certainly was with those under-powered, and unreliable TF30 engines

Yep, hard and fast. Sink the carriers and get the hell out of dodge.......

Probably would've been the strategy

honestly, you get one bomb on the carrier deck over 100 lbs and that thing becomes inoperable. Could've just mounted rocket pods and cratered it to shit tbh.

You’d think that was a no brainer...

Or max altitude. Zeros wouldn't have been able to touch them and they could still hit the carriers without going too much into a dive. Even so the climb angle on all Nimitz carrier would be far steeper than the zeros could handle.

lol yes

I think they just collided, I don't think it ran into him on purpose.

Kamikaze weren't utilized until 1944

and they were using LHA's as stand-ins for the Japanese Carriers. Even LHA's had CIWS systems, too bad they couldn't have found actual WW2 carriers.

I loved this movie as a kid. 1 Nimitz with a full compliment would have wrecked shop for at least 1 battle. After that, refit her for Wildcats, Avengers, maybe Corsairs.

@@EthanBSide the catapult system would be of no use why not just cooy these tomcats and then make more

@@randomclipsmilitary9056 A lack of industrial technology. WW2 was using valve technology and couldn't imagine how to make a transistor, let alone a PCB. It would be a case of working out how to build the machine to build the machine to build the machine to make the part.

@@JohnJ469 still tho i meant after the war

The story was better too!

Story was more unique in final but i feel both films really show off the f14 in all its glory , n they just dont make movies like they used to cgi fake bs now

The people were a heck of a lot more likable in the Final Countdown too. I got a more military feel than Top Gun.

This is based on your experience in DCS?

thing is F-14 never was fitted with Harpoons, after all its a fighter - interceptor not an attacker, it wasnt even able to use bombs before 1990-ies ... anyway AAA cant do a thing outside of incredibly lucky hit, fighters wouldnt even be able to comprehend what is happening let alone keep track of F-14s or Corsairs lastly all you would need is ONE nuke which Corsair was capable of carrying ... drop that baby in the middle of the battlegroup and RTB because there is nothing left on the surface ... and before someone claims there is no proof Supercarriers have nuclear weapons available, its RIDICULOUS to think that they dont ... they are the rapid response force projection platform, what else would you thing would be armed with nuclear weapons (other than subs ofcourse) than the leading class Supercarrier of its time ... its not a question of if, its just question of how many ... realistically you would have it play something like this - the F-14s would stay out of visual range and start swatting zeroes out of the sky with Sparrows and Phoenixes which for the Japanese would be incomprehensible - theyr planes just blowing up out of nowhere with no enemy in sight which would send them in absolute panic and chaos meanwhile Corsairs would approach the battlegroup from altitude Japanese planes couldnt even reach then dive to make a run on carriers - one plane each making 100% sure the carrier is sunk, hit and be gone before Japs would even know what hit them. rest of the battlegroup would then turn tail and run... or as i sayd you would have a single Corsair drop a nuke on the battlegroup and be done with the whole thing instantly

@@Asghaad Who said the F14s had to be the bomb trucks? A6s, A7s carried precision munitions. Expending AIM-7s and AIM-9s on zeros is such a waste....just wipe out the carriers and let them go into the drink...

@@sorryociffer blowing up CAP planes means they cant focus on the attackers, if your buddy next to you exploded out of nowhere you would be much less likely to see and do something about attackers heading for your carriers. F-14s wouldnt need to destroy all of the Zeroes, just make sure they are occupied with other things than defending the carrier group. and as i sayd the most efficient thing would be to drop nukes on them - least risk of losing planes with 100% target destruction.

@@Asghaad I get that...but the attackers will be doing almost 2x their speed, even loaded down... I mean sure throw some Cats in there to do some 900 mph zoomed around them and blow their mind or use some M61 Vulcan.... Hell, the A-7s has the 20mm too... not sure if the gunsight had an A2A capability, but even they could join in...

@@sorryociffer Seriously, just blow through them at mach 1+ and let the shockwave shred them. The Zero is hardly the world's toughest plane. Even if the shockwave doesn't cause an outright kill, I bet the pilot's nerves would be rattled at least. Additionally, the Zeroes don't have self sealing fuel tanks and there are many places that a shockwave can damage things like oil lines and coolers. This scenario would go from laughable to just plain murder with modern F/A-18s. Imagine a high flight up at 30k feet dropping guided weapons from entirely above the AA envelope. Laser guided or JDAM 2,000 pound weapons would do such awful things to ships that likely would have effectively no warning. With just a little bit of malice aforethought, you could probably execute something really close to a MRSI attack from a single plane. Ships go boom before anyone even has the first clue.

yeah, they weren't trying to win~ they just wanted the spectacle~ haha

Exactly Jerry - but I'll do you one better; Let the attack on Pearl Harbour happen, which fully draws the US into the war in the Pacific and unites the country. Then you have to wait 3 days until Germany (Hitler) declares war on the US, so that there is no question whether they would be involved in that theatre. They you sink all six carriers. the Yamato and Musashi.

@@frankpinmtl That's exactly what I thought.

Thank you. I was just about to ask about this.

i agree with you 100% that was my thoughts, with the decks fdull of planes and full of fuel they would be toast i think, we already knew what time the jap planes were suppose to lauch and you hit them 30 minutes before lauch wow just think about that and no carries for there fighters to land and or refuel, soon there would be no fighter cover for any of there ships, and also think how fast our carrier is and they could easy stay with the Japs and wipe out the whole Jap fleet

I think a F-15C would be better representative of the F-15J than a F-16 for a F-2

How about Macross where all of the sudden the F-14's are giant robots.

How would they fly F16, if they change WW2?

@@ghostviggen or would they have even surrendered if Nagasaki or Hiroshima didn’t get their atomic bombs?

@@kodefashmodefa eventually. Would likely have resulted in a north and south Japan as the Soviets invade ( assuming they didn't beat us to the punch).

so in short deploy A4s and A-10s

@@phantomaviator1318 Sadly carriers do not carry A-10s. Oh well.

There would be no need to even engage the Zeroes; the strike group could almost entirely ignore the fighters and boom and zoom the carriers to death; Zeroes aren't much of a threat to jets, and with no place to land they won't be a threat to anyone else for long.

@@wolfie54321 All that extra weight and thickness is mostly due to protection. The B17 can take one hell of a beating better than the Mosquito where a perfectly placed burst would disintegrate it mid-air

@@wolfie54321 The extra weight and size is more due to protection. Not just against incoming fire but also to fight back. The B17 has a lot of guns to combat any fighters

Whisper....Admiral Nagumo was so timid he refused a second strike even though his pilots begged for it. He felt "they'd been so lucky why push it?' Such advanced aircraft showing up and bombing with great accuracy and effect would have destroyed the man. He'd have aborted the attack and run back to Japan. War in the Pacific would have been avoided since Japan first had to destroy the American Navy. We were the only ones that could have stopped them.

Logically, the Japanese should retreat after seeing what modern attack aircraft can do. But, logic was not as important in Imperial Japan as it’s cultural philosophy. The biggest fault in any war is not understanding the enemy. The US didn’t understand how much honor meant to the Japanese, and that honor was more important than winning. Hence, a slight to Japanese honor, was the same as a physical attack. Additionally, the Japanese hadn’t lost any war up till WWII. And, the concept of winning was enforced by the fact that the military designed their war games so they never lost. It’s pretty illogical to assume the enemy won’t fight back, but the idea of winning was so ingrained, the Japanese would rather die than dishonor themselves by admitting they were wrong. So, I am not sure they would have retreated from modern weapon systems. Perhaps, if America had understood the Japanese psychology better, the war would have been avoided. As for Japan’s understanding of American’s? The Japanese thought the Americans soft. What they didn’t understand is: American “softness” was actually an ability to adapt and innovate. Plus, as in most western culture, being wrong wasn’t an attack on a persons honor, but as an opportunity to try again.

Hitler might’ve surrendered, but remember that the Japanese didn’t surrender after we dropped the first nuclear bomb on them. It took the next one to get them to stand down.

@@zeph6182 Good point!

@@zeph6182 Their Navy wasn't suicidal though, remember that they called off the main fleet attack on Midway after the American victory so they didn't just throw ships away

Prior to 1992, the USS Nimitz carried a W (nuclear weapons) Division and about 100 B61 (340 kT) nuclear strike and B57 (10kT) depth bombs. www.navynucweps.com/patches.htm fas.org/blogs/security/2016/02/nuclear-weapons-at-sea/ In 1941 it would have laid complete waste to Japan in a day with plenty left over for Germany and not a thing they could do about it..

Pretty sure that there's some sort of enable code you have to enter into the warhead's firing system to actually arm it before use, and that wouldn't be provided to the ship until the CiC decided it was time to use them.

Thanks Brock!

How were the F14s new I'm filming when the F14As were build in mid to late 70s and the film was in 1980 and filmed in 1979? Lol

@@nexpro6118 VF-84 Jolly Rogers only got there F-14s in December 1977 so they were relatively new. The final squadrons to convert to the F-14 were in 1983.

More clever than this white giy video!

Yes and no. Perhaps the limits was built regardless. If they ended up destroying the Japanese fleet at the time and still had a few of the f-14s. They could reverse engineer them. The ship itself other than the nuclear power. I would imagine is similar to an aircraft carrier then. Hitler might not have declared war on the U.S. knowing how badly the Japanese fleet got trounced.

It's best to not question time travel logic

See Avengers Endgame for a possible time travel theory where, for example, you can kill your father without you disappearing from existence. Personally, I enjoy it.

Ever tried pulling evasive maneuvers in a ww2 carrier vs a semi modern jet, XD

our jets would have bombs landing on the caries before the Japs even knew what happened, those 56 careriers baxck then wirth our jets would have been toast before trhey got 1 plane off the deck, the hieght they fly lol, they would have come from God jets coming from heaven, once the carries were done at 1 time it woud be even easier to take out the whole fleet, just think if they fgot word back that they lost the whole fleet agaist the USA, maybe leave one small ship alone to take back the message of the Japs have no more ships

Late in their history, F14’s were ground attack aircraft...

@@captainhoratius8192 ijn radar was a combination of nonexistent and un-trusted.

If you have seen the movie the Nimitz sent the entire airwing up in an Alpha strike. The F14's where sent up to blow the CAP out of the air and then take out any of the strike planes that did manage to launch. Then they had A6's and A7's to pound the IJN fleet into mush with the ASW planes to put holes into the ships below the waterline to make sure nothing got home. If they had launched the attack it would have been Piper man the brooms and sweep the sea clear. The Japanese Fleet would have been sunk in less than 20 minutes.

@@jordansamson6071 Late in history? this was happening in 1941......lol.

@@spareparts7630 not talking about the movie dipshit

Before that there were stories like a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, Buck Rogers, time travel episodes in Star Trek (the original series), it wasn't ground breaking except that it was about "modern" military going back in time.

Exactly, movie productions have to reimburse the DOD for the use of equipment, it would have been very expensive for the production to try and get the full air wing aloft for what really amounted to a minute or two of footage. This was probably filmed during the work up of Nimitz’s Med cruise which began in Sept of 79. CVW-8 would have had approx 24 F-14s, 24 A-7s, 10-14 A-6s/KA-6s, 6-8 S-3s.

In the film it looks like a full alpha strike during the big launch montage; they even have launch footage of the EA-6Bs, S-3As, and RF-8Gs taking off (which wouldn't be much use in this scenario): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8M74yB9duRc.html Given they show the F-14s being loaded up with AIM-54s and AIM-7s, it's a fair bet there would be a bit of a Macross Missile Massacre before they got to ACM. The scene in the movie where two F-14As take on two "Zeros" (or rather visually modified T-6 Texans) was actually filmed with live aircraft; reportedly when the Tomcats initially buzzed the Texans the shockwave blew the headsets off the pilots: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NkOsXNF_ZoM.html

Apologies...

Perhaps this could be a theme for future videos - Grim reapers: a musical interlude, close harmonies in close formation

We spent hours on it but sadly there is no way to get the Aim-9 to fire in a hover :(

@@grimreapers Aw man. Well thanks for trying Cap. :-)

@@grimreapers There is if there's enough headwind ;)

and the escorts

@@butchs2337 Maybe, but there were only 8 strike aircraft in the Nimitz's force show on-screen, and about 20 Japanese surface ships... I think they probably would have run out of bombs after only a few passes.

For what it is worth; the cannons in the simulation were late war mg151, much higher velocity than the a6m2 mod 21 Zero's Type 99 mk , not to mention there were 4 on the 190s including two in the wing roots for centerline. Lower penetration 20s as well as a result, I doubt that the Zeros would have had much of a chance doing meaningful damage, even in a lucky deflection shot.

lols

Unlimited playload, unlimited and just 1% fuel, a bunch of Rockeyes thrown all across the beach in full AB. Guess wo loses? ... Caps Rig XD

Something DCS misses is that it gives the IJN a gods eye view, in reality, they would be completely unaware they were under attack until things exploded - just like Saddam experienced when the F-14s sold to Iran engaged his older Soviet jets - the Iraqis thought combat killed jets had mechanical failures!

Tactical nuclear weapons what are you a first grader nukes don't exist gro up

@@bigjimtruth6957 Hey shitbird, I was USAF SECURITY POLICE 1982-1997, and I know about the various nuclear tipped missiles that were dropped from F-111's, B-52's, and other aircraft we had in common with the Navy, like the A-7, so piss off, kid. Please learn to type as well, those of us with an education would appreciate it.

Interesting...

The main limit for modern jets is that they can only carry a limited number of missiles, and even their guns only have a very limited number of bursts. Assuming they can't get hit on the ground they would be largely invulnerable in the air, save for the chance of getting hit by a very lucky stray round, but those could be avoiding simply by flying well above anti-aircraft range and using missiles only.

The main advantage to modern jets is that they could fly well above AA fire, have exceptional range, and use guided weapons with impunity. A single F/A-18 would be more effective as a bomber than 5 squadrons of B-17's.

Would the radar capabilities of a modern fighter make it more valuable as an airborne early warning platform? You have multiple hundreds of active period fighters, and presumably very limited reloads of modern guided ammo.

@@p51mustang24 presumes you know exactly what the target is inside a large factory site. And one of the main aspects.of the Combined Bomber Offensive was to wear down German fighter strength by forcing them to engage the USAAF bombers and fighters.

Burning? Really? The ships would be vaporized and what wasn't vaporized would have been melted up to a mile from the center of the blast. Beyond a mile everything would be crushed and capsized by the blast wave. Plus incineration by the heat wave.

@@Neorott A 120 kt detonation would have a fireball only 2/3rds of a mile across. You are unlikely to vaporize more than a couple ships in a formation like the Japanese fleet at Pearl. The Japanese had six carriers at Pearl and in the fleet each would have been spaced a mile or more apart in order to minimize risk of aircraft hitting each other during take off. At 1.0 km from the detonation point, the blast pressure would be 20 PSI, enough to crumple the hull plates on the ships. At 2.2 km the blast pressure would be 5 PSI, enough to shred the planes on deck and spill their fuel. At five and a half kilometers, the blast wave drops to just 1.0 PSI. Enough to break windows. Thermal effects however, remain strong out to about 4.25 km. At that range, you get instant third degree burns. And this is where everything above the waterline auto-ignites.

I think the A-6 was not rated to carry Harpoon until later, but the A-7 Corsair II could carry them. The A-6s on the Nimitz would have been early versions of the TRAM model, so could carry many precision munitions for the time, including LGBs and the Walleye II 2000lb TV guided glide bomb...which had a 30+ mile range and pinpoint accuracy. BYE BYE Japanese CVs 😁😁😁

@@iKvetch558 agreed it depends on the year. I joined when we're phasing out the A-6. Well One EA-6B and they probably couldn't turn a light switch on.

The movie is set in 1980, so I tried to find what the planes could be armed with at that time. And yeah, one Prowler would definitely take all Japanese radar and communications by itself.

@@iKvetch558 The Japanese Fleet did not even have radar in 1941 it was almost 1944 before they had their first sets. That is why at Midway the SBD's of the Enterprise and Yorktown got the drop on them. They flat out did not know they were COMING until they where overhead and in their attacks.

A more realistic attack wouldn't have used Tomcats at all since they weren't capable of ground attack at that time and air to air combat is pointless in that scenario. Deploying a few A-7s armed with B61 nuclear bombs which Nimitz carried at that time would be more than enough to wipe out the entire Japanese fleet and they could fly at altitudes far above the reach of AAA or defending fighters.

Looked like his left engine was out?!

Dcs multiplayer doesnt really sync well

Because Waaaaagneeer, I mean Богачев!

Some more math: It was estimated that 6 AP Mark 1/Mark 33 bombs had a roughly 80% chance to sink a battleship; in full combat load, an A-6E can carry 13 Mk 83s, meaning it has an 80% chance or better to sink two battleships each. The A-7E has a similar capacity, thus the seven attackers featured on-screen could sink fourteen battleships or carriers, where a WWII carrier would need multiple sorties from her air wing. The Kido Butai consisted of six carriers, two battleships, three cruisers, and nine destroyers for its surface fleet, so it is entirely possible that the planes sent out could have wiped the fleet from existence, so long as all their bombs hit (and with the technology available in the 80s, it would be almost certain to happen).

or VF-41 the other F-14 squadron on Nimitz at the time

@@ewhartiii Oh yeah the black aces

@@stinkyfungus neither F-14 nor Corsair II would be able to carry those in 1980, hell Tomcats shouldnt have even bombs at that time...

Sadly they can’t cause it’s not in dcs.

The F-22 really isn't the right plane for this, even if it was in DCS (and the mods that make the F-15 look like an F-22 don't really count). It has some A-G capability but can carry only two 1000 lb bombs per aircraft.

@@MarvinCZ plus, the F22 is not a naval aircraft

@@eq1373 You're right, I guess I should have put that as the main reason :D

@@MarvinCZ that depends on the configuration. The F-22 also has 4 underwing stations that can mount bomb pylons when Stealth isn’t needed.

Prop planes have much shorter turn radius, and can get better angles of attack on heavier jets like the f14.

@@masterliquidocelot0092 Exactly. Fast jets against prop planes means either boom and zoom with guns or use the much more sensible approach of taking them out with missiles at ranges where they can't even see you. No point playing to the opposition's strengths.

Agreed. I want this to be redone with the whole GR crew.

Copy

I always recommend Track IR

I tried all cats and none worked. Weird, haven't had that happen before.

@@grimreapers it has happened to me 2 times... went through cold start and then wasn't able to hook up to any Cat...plus coms is really buggy reasons why i don't fly the F-14 =(

Nimitz carried B61 free-fall nuclear bombs back then. An A-7 could carry four of them and bomb the IJN fleet from altitudes that none of their defences could reach.

f6

@@itspersiangulfmoron.repeat2242 tks