FINAL ATTEMPT Modern US Carrier Group vs WWII IJN Pearl Harbor Strike Group (Naval 44c) | DCS 

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Y3yDHtn85Ak.html

Thanks but that mod has the A and B only

@@grimreapers One advice... Save money for a VERY GOOD PC... And when they will put the plane carrier reload procedures on DCS, repeat again...

@@Yamato-tp2kf i could see this happing

@@Yamato-tp2kf Save money for a good PC? That's only half the battle, just finding a GPU is hard enough. Then deciding if you want to pay ridiculously bloated prices for one is the other half.

Absolutely. They forgot to include at least one ssn.

The Ticonderoga and Arleigh Burke class ships also have torpedo tubes. Could they have also been used against surface ships?

@@waynec3563 Not unless they were within shouting distance of them. Torpedoes only carry a small amount of fuel

To be fair, a modern Sub would have been able to sink _all_ of the carriers before the Japanese knew what was happening!

Exactly

And a diesel powered sub would never get inside a modern carrier group and sink the most expensive aircraft carrier in the world now would it? (I think Sweden would beg to differ) Never say never and never underestimate your enemy no matter how inferior their equipment might be ! just saying!

@@wideyxyz2271 Believe it or not, war games and real wars aren't actually the same thing.

@@wideyxyz2271 that wouldn’t sink the ship, mess it up, yes, possibly make it go home for repairs, yes, they are made to survive those type things as they are very expensive in lives, initial cost, plus all the planes on it and upkeep, training and wages wasted on dead sailors, they can take a torp, missiles and what not, and live.

@@wideyxyz2271 your comment shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what a diesel sub can do. They are essentially silent when underwater, as they operate off of a battery. That is the whole benefit to a diesel sub. The problem is they have to surface to breathe.

@@wideyxyz2271 if anyone had a modern diesel sub in WW2 that would have been a serious game changer... The conditions were also absolutely perfect for it to happen. So, no, in friendly waters under combat conditions no modern diesel sub would make it inside a modern carrier group. The swedish captain could bottom his boat and wait for the carrier group to run him over, and yes, that was an extremely interesting lesson learned, but it doesn't really change anything. The generational gap of capabilities is just laughably extreme at this point and actual history teaches that even a gap of a single generation in recent times will aleviate massive numerical gaps. That's why Iraq never stood a chance.

The damage model on anything that doesn't fly is atrocious in general.

Unarmored flight decks... damage control procedures that were fair-to-middling at best... A command structure that was entirely too rigid... Yeah, the Kido Butai wouldn't have lasted ten minutes against this sort of an assault.

Saying only 2 harpoons, with payload under 500 lbs, can take out of the fight a WWII era carrier that's designed and compartmentalized for sustaining hits while maintaining partial combat effectiveness, by hitting above the waterline, is a bit of a stretch. They'll lose, no doubt, but laws of physics still apply. Barring any lucky hits on ammo storage, it'll take more than 2.

A single good hit on the wooden deck would take out the carriers combat effectiveness

@@georgedang449 Never seen the videos of harpoon hits sinking ships have you? Trust me when I tell you that a Harpoon hit will take down a ship.

only problem would be knowing they were there to attack.... although since its a carrier group traveling through time they may have hindsight.

@@blackdeath4eternity 2-3 judiciously placed E-2s should do the trick.

@@blackdeath4eternity And also they would not have satellites to aid them . So would render lots of arms , navigation , communication , fire control inoperable ....a high tech against a low tech foe.

@@petemelanyevans9162 indeed.

@@petemelanyevans9162 it’s a good point. Still, fly above zeros ceiling and drop laser guided GBUs onto the flight deck and those carriers are toast. The HARPOONS would get through before the enemy fleet even knew what they were. The confusion alone about what was smashing them would render their fleet nearly combat ineffective.

Wouldn’t that be a sight to be scene? Omg. 2000lbs of HE? Good night!

@@matrut28 a literal rain of death

Harpoons,, bombs could miss. Also if they went back in time no GPS guidance only laser most likely which aren't meant for sea battles

There's another video where they tried that--nope, can't designate from 40,000'. And since it's a moving target you have to stick around to guide the bomb all the way in--the planes could be mobbed by zeros.

Guys I know that have served on Nimitz class carriers say they'll comfortably go 50 or 60 knots. They are the fastest ships in the fleet.

LOL, there is an old audio tape of US ships from the Nimitz carrier group trying to avoid a typhoon and the Nimitz took off to get the hell out of there. A comment from one escort ship to another about the carriers location stated that they had no idea where she was, but the last time they saw her she was disappearing over the horizon doing 50+ knots

@@moabfool which is wild considering they are the biggest ships in the fleet!

They are very very fast

@@realburglazofficial2613 Thats the joy of basically unlimited nuclear power!

Wow two?!?!!?

Meat that eats you back.

Whoever programmed pretty much everything in DCS has no clue...

@@iankemp2627 Frustrating.

well, that's probably because they weren't a missile technician in the Navy

They need pilots to actually use this system.

@@josephwonderless1258 ...not over target...not in 2022!

probably if they had even been spotted at all, which is why there are so many conspiracy theories about Pearl...

It wouldn't save them. The modern combat group is too fast. They can hold open the range for maximum advantage and keep them there until there are no Japanese ships.

Well, the Japanese empire was the typical totalitarian state... After the Kido Butai carriers got an upgrade to submarine in the battle of Midway, the survivors got sent to remote places and the news were never heard in Japan. It would have been absolutely devastating for the morale. How they would have covered up something like this? An interesting though experiment...

I also think it would've been more efficient to take out some of those ships with 2000lb bombs, either guided or unguided.

Me thinks the real Aegis would handle it more efficiently as well...

No, just no. The Aegis system just points the way, the missiles themselves are what are doing the final kill. Also you don't have anything like that under human control as there is literally no way to real time control a missile that is 50+ miles away from you when it is flying that fast.

@@Hairysteed For sure. 2000lbs paveways would be almost unstoppable antiship weapons in the 1940s.

The Harpoons would be a lot more accurate, reliable and are programable to target the carriers only. The pop up attacks would kill the carriers quickly, most of the carriers sunk at Midway were burned out by two or three hits on the deck with 500 pounders.

all??

@@grimreapers ALL THE RESOURCES! Its really amazing that ED hasnt gotten this figured out sooner.

Oh god please stop! 😂

i ve never seen anyone have such a predictable and embarrassing moment on YT...in an even more embarrassing way than this

Not to mention the fact that all of the US planes had 20 mm cannons to shred zeros and surface ships of the Japanese navy. I don't believe a zero would stand a chance in air to air combat vs a F-35 or F-18. 1500 mph vs 350 mph? No chance.

It's the Japanese... the kamikaze dudes, fear and death means little apparently....

Actually .I don't think it would go quite as expected . In this day and age we are all high tech. The ww2 equipment is low tech . Would the Americans even see the Japanese fighters . The point was proven twice by the royal air force ...they British dropped nuclear bombs on America .on two separate training exercises two years apart ...they simply could not find the Vulcan bombers .

Great scene in the film Final Countdown Down when two F 14s play with a couple of Zeros

@@petemelanyevans9162 the Vulcan was a high altitude high speed subsonic aircraft. The exercises you speak of were part of Operation Skyshield and the results were definitely taken seriously. It also should be noted it happened much closer to WW2 than to our current day, in 1960 to be precise... Modern Radar systems have about as much in common with what was used in the 60ies as your smartphone has with an Abacus. The Integrated Circuit was invented a mere 2 years before that, meaning that all military technology was still using analog computers for almost a decade. Modern radar has absolutely no problem spotting tiny ultralight aircraft (including electric, so no heat signature to speak of) used for drug smuggling, so the idea that they would somehow miss a 12m wingspan almost 3 ton metal skinned fuel guzzler is frankly ludicrous.

he's right DCS AI is stupid it should maneuver and not sit there like a duck.

Actually the Japanese destroyers and cruisers were know by their light armour. The thing that those misiles can pen the the top and superstructure of ww2 ships disabling them

I can't wait to fly the SU 33 from the Kuznetsov fleet when the mission is made...

@@dampsok That's going to be proper mental once Cap gets it up and running. The US CVBG is pretty stacked. But the Russians are just crazy hard cases. I shall look forward to hearing your aqueous of glee Damp. I'm chuckling already at the thought of it. Just had a thought. In future have the Grim Reapers fleet sailing at 90° (I.e. Crossing the T) to the oncoming Japanese fleet. That way all ships guns come to bear and not a shell gets wasted. How does that sound (other than simple obvious)? Or would DCS have a nervous breakdown?

@@ser43_OLDC they have more armor than the aluminum Ticonderoga.

The problem is DCS AI is cant throw laser bomb on a moving ship. But player controlled F18 can.

Probably better. Not enough new tech to get fucked up and plenty of old tech to carry the day.

I'm surprised we're just now getting to replacing them jn our navy.

Closure !!! It was made up ...it's not real .how can you get closure from a fictional event ! Do you actually believe in films that much .......that would explain why America thinks it's so powerful ...though it's yet to prove the point .

@@petemelanyevans9162 i know it's fiction. In the movie they did not engage and I just wonder if they did what would be the possible outcome. Lighten up.

@@mybotoitchi5048 don't listen to them just another auntie American troll.

but, it would have just kept on ringing...

Assuming it hasn't already bitch slapped the fuck out of every single ship there. 2 Mk.48 ADCAPs should be more than enough to cripple a carrier and will definitely one shot any cruiser, destroyer, or submarine.

@@a_stone Were you a submarine sailor?

@@DOUGLAS55ish No.

@@a_stone I am a Cold War submarine veteran. I was an A-Ganger on one Boomer, USS HENRY CLAY SSBN625 and two Fast Attacks; USS Puffer SSN652 and USS LOS ANGELES SSN688. I was a plank owner on the 688. About 45 years ago , we did an exercise on the 688 to test the feasibility of using Fast Attacks as long range escorts for Carrier Battle Groups. We could have sunk all the Japanese carriers by ourselves long before they got into striking range of the US forces. Even with pre ADCAP MK48s.

@@DOUGLAS55ish Well shit. 😂 Im just someone who spends too much time reading stuff online.

The Nazis did it too.

Yeah it was a huge debate if it was moral to shoot parachutist when they are over their own country as not shooting them means they are back up in a plane later on. The Western top brass decided it wasnt moral to shoot them but Pilots on ALL sides sometimes did , especially as revenge if they had just shot down their mate. Over friendly territory it made no sense shooting the parachutist as they were effectively out of the war. The Japanese were known to be particularly ruthless when it came to enemy parachutists sadly , but there are reports of individual US officers giving the order to shoot parachutists during the late war over Germany to save US lives.

@@robdee81 exactly. I’m pretty sure the Japanese started doing that in China. I can only guess that the brass on the Japanese side saw how effective it was in China and thought it would translate well when it came to the Americans.

@@KRDecade2009 the western powers brought with them the idea of the noble chivalrous knight of the sky from WW1 and looked down on such behaviour ( even though it still occasionaly happened ) Whereas the Japanese saw it as a legitimate act of war and didnt have time for western romanticism , their ancestors were Samurai and Samurai didnt show mercy to the enemy.

The way i undetstood it, the US sent thier experienced pilots home to train recruits. IJN and Luftwaffe pilots would more often fight untill they could no longer beat the odds. Pretty sure I have that right.

I dont know if they split it up like that but i reckon it was 3 waves but the 3rd one was cancelled

Yeh but really wanted the challenge.

They're just using the simulation provided to them by the devs mate. They've added a few mods to try and make it more realistic but in the end it's the sim itself that's shit.

Haha same 😑

I wonder if this would have given Yamamoto and the other naval high rankers (potentially along with the Emperor) enough leverage on the army to try and negotiate a peace treaty?

*All* of the carriers. And absolutely none of those air-air missiles would miss.

And a Zero shooting down an F-35 having matched its speed? Give me a break. Anyway, with realistic parameters there would be zero chance for the IJN fleet. And CVNs carry nukes. Eh.

@@stevebloom5606 Listen if a bird strike can take out a modern jet so can a piece of shrapnel!

@@stevebloom5606 And a diesel powered sub can take out the most expensive and I believe the largest aircraft carrier in the world (just ask the Swedish Navy!) As stated in the first round simulation the Japanese had 35+ subs in their battle group but not modelled in the sim!

@@stevebloom5606 One of our boomers subs would of wiped out the entire Japanese fleet. Kaboom and a mushroom cloud.

ooOO good point!

Harpoons _are_ cruise missiles...

The Japanese were pretty good in maneuvering to avoid high-altitude bombing... imagine their horror to, after they pull their usual avoidance maneuver, see the bombs _change course_ to follow them.

@@drtidrow It was at that moment that they knew, they had fucked up.

I'm setting the precedent.

1991 desert storm showed much newer tank groups (Iraq) against 90s era USA tanks and Iraqi tanks got smoked.

It would be a massacre. Challengers or Abrahms would be able to see and kill the Panzer III and IV from a range at which the Germans would have no chance of responding.

I would like to see to find out the same. There is very little on the topic. I do remember one scene from Firefox with Clint Eastwood where he buzzed a ship and helicopter with the sonic boom.

Final Countdown is one of my favorite movies because I like “what if” scenarios. Especially, when related to military history. I like your idea of including the 1941 forces but it would be tricky. The issues I see with bringing in 1941 forces are: 1. The USA needed the kick in the pants Pearl Harbor provided to get into the war. Maybe there could be way to lower the number of people killed at Pearl Harbor, but it kinda had to happen. 2. While the loss of life at Pearl Harbor was horrible, the actual damage wasn’t that serious. Most of the US battleships at Pearl Harbor were re-floated and back in action within a year. And, as Pearl Harbor and Midway proved, battleships were obsolete when pitted against carriers. In the Pacific theatre battleships required a large crew to be nothing more than a heavily armored mobile artillery platform used for pounding islands in preparation for invasion. Even so, they were useful and it would have been bad if they got sunk in deep water at the beginning of the war. 3. I’m not sure Halsey or Newton (Saratoga was at least 2 days away) would be willing to let the attack on Pearl Harbor happen. And what would happen if there weren’t any major navy ships at Pearl Harbor on December 7th? Would the Japanese attack craft destroyed the fuel tanks? Even a nuclear powered carrier needs fuel for its aircraft and support craft. Like I said, I enjoy what-if…so I think the best strategy would be to let the attack on Pearl Harbor happen (maybe somehow get the crew off the the Arizona because over half of all sailors killed during the attack were on the Arizona), then follow the Japanese fleet till night fell and destroy, or severely damage, the carriers and the battle ships. Then quickly locate the Japanese support fleet and destroy it. If I remember, the support ships were left about a day behind the attacking force. This tactic would not only save modern ordnance and munitions, but strand the remaining Japanese fleet without fuel and food for their long trip back to Japan.

@@CMTHFAFI agree, the Japanese fleet was well overextend committing their capital ships to attacking Pearl. The simulation also doesn't account for radio transmisions warning Pearl of the invading fleet. True, the attack forced the US from a neutral isolated country to a world power. I don't think we would have many of the major tech developments we enjoy now like nuclear power, moon landings, radar, GPS, internet etc. I would guess our tech advancements we would be on par with the early 1960s if the attack didn't happen.

and add in the fact that during the USS Enterprise deployment Halsey put his group on a war footing and to act accordingly. This would have made it much easier to combine historical fleet with the modern fleet

No s*** japan already lost the war without mordern weapons how is this fair

No reason to even wait that long with deploying Air Assets against the ships. At ceiling nothing in the IJN would have had the capability to even touch an F/A-18F. They can fly higher than even the theoretical reach of any IJN Air Defenses. Those were limited to around 40k feet, the Super Hornet can go to 50k ft at the least... Good luck spotting an Aircraft at 15+km going Mach 1.6, potentially above cloud cover. Using Binoculars. Like. Lol...

The engagement range was fixed by the fact that the carrier was yeeted through time to that location.

rgr

Indeed, one Seawolf would absolutely wreck the IJN fleet. A couple of salvos of ADCAPs and all the capital ships would be on their way to the bottom. Imagine their horror as they try to maneuver to avoid the torps, only to find the torps altering course to remain on an intercept path. And it's damned unlikely that the pickets would ever get a sniff of the Seawolf. Even if they did, it'd be awfully difficult to make a decent depth charge attack on a sub doing 35 knots and maneuvering. Or have one of the Ohio-class SSGNs pull a "Macross Missile Massacre", sending in a couple dozen Tomahawks, then relocating and do it again from another location. Any leftovers/cripples could be dispatched with a few ADCAPs.

@@drtidrow oh it would be a total turkey shoot. I also follow a channel now called OnlySubs (fnarr) where an ex USN sonarman gamestreams Cold Waters and shows in precise detail how a modern sub can ruin a surface fleet’s weekend. I recommend subbing to him.

@@macnadoodle You mean Jive Turkey's new channel? I've been subbed to his stuff since '17. :-)

@@drtidrow the very same!🤗

lols

It’s final until the next time.

:)

We probably wouldn't have entered the war before Hitler invaded England. The same thing with this scenario, without the "Day of Infamy" Roosevelt didn't have enough public backing to get the USA directly involved.

Also the jets and pilots themselves will be irreplaceable and so is the carrier, attack sub and Escorts will apply.