Thank you so much, jacob! There are too little few americans who are friendly with us in RU-vid but you are one of those who takes really care of our common friendship! Fridomfry is right, French don't forget what you did for us, by saving France in WW2. I hope our both countries to keep standing together in A'stan too; this will be a long war but I think we will win it! For Liberty! God Bless Both America and France!
@BellmontXP your point of view is,well,enlightened.i'll have to agree on everything. let's hope you're wrong about germany though,links between the euro nations have never been so intricate,most of us having spent some time in other parts of the continent than our own "vaterland",and i think even though still weak,the eurofeeling is spreading,and that we do not see each other as foes anymore,not more at least than the next city in the champions league (i'm surely being optimistic here...)
@AllectusL i'm very proud i met a non-ignorant american... I want to tell you that, here in france, a lot of people love the USA, we are thankful for what you did in the past for us and what you are doing now in the present ! greetings from France !
I don't want to be disrespectfull with anyone or be arrogant with any pride. Just I defend my country which is foolish and badly attacked since we refused the Iraq War. Thanks for having defended us.
"Eisenhower was a figurehead commander, he had NO combat experience." He "just" did the operation Dragoon, the campaign of Tunisia, operation Husky, and Italy. Just. Monty did bad in Normandy isn't ignorance, he rushed his troops in Falaise and Caen (supposed to fall the 7th of Juni) and this was quite much more difficult and costly than expected because he was unable to perform his plans.
In Korea, French Expeditionary Corps (3,421 men and a naval participation while we were already fighting in Indochina) participated to many victories (Dropped in Pusan, Battles of Twin Tunnels, Chipyong Ni, Hill 1037, Putchaetul, Heartbreak Ridge, Chungasan,...) and were many times awarded by Korean and American presidents. We were not peacekeepers in Korea, but soldiers and they fought all the time of the war. We even repulsed a whole chinese division with a baïonet charge (Twin Tunnels)!
The American played an appreciable but not a decisive role in WW1, they came late and made the war ending earlier but germans were already beaten. Anyway this help was welcomed and I thank the US for those men. In WW2, I've never denied the huge help coming from the US and their participation for the Liberation of France, you can't tell I would be irrelevant in any of my comment about this.
French "Armée du Nord" covered the Allied retreat and covered Dunkirk during the battle. General Juin (later a great Free French leader) gathered his troops in encircled Lille and they fought until they were out of ammunitions. Churchill himself wrote this action gave 5 quiet days for the BEF retreating to Dunkirk.
But the funniest is coming: one of his most renowned divisions of his Third Army was French: the 2nd Free French Armored Division. It played a critical role in all the fights of this army. From the operation Cobra to the fall of Berchtesgaden, where a unit of recognition will plant the French flag on the Eagle Nest, in april 1945. It freed Paris and Strasbourg and fighted off SS counter attacks on French borders.
Nettempereur. Monty n'avait d'autre intérêt que sa propre image. Par rapport à Patton, c'était une brêle. Pour preuve son seul talent était la défense, Patton l'attaque.
Maybe, yeah. If you search the video "L'enfer Afghan", you will see French-American troops fighting talibans in a little forest! But even if I've never been in Afghanistan ^^ I think it's mainly a desert, perfect for a film about Mars planet.
@Truelegend1 i totally agree with you! if people want lessons from us,they are free to ask for them,we have absolutely no reason to impose anything,and have enough problems at home these days to let the others live the life they want.
French Victories vs English/British: - Val de Saire (1001) - Hastings and conquest of England (1066) - Capétiens vs Plantagenêt War (13th century) with the Saintonge war (1242) - Sainsardos war (1324) - 100 Years War with the First Castillan civil war (1366 - 1369), Caroline war (1369 - 1389) and the Lancastrian War (1429 - 1453) - War of the League of Cambrai (1508-1516) - Italian war (1536-38) - Italian war (1542-46)
In the "The Longest Day,", Kieffer commando was showed like it was because their producers were not as prejudiced as you against us. They took reality for that it was. And this was a multinational film, not a french one.
@BellmontXP i understand numbers are not in our favor in afghanistan. it has doubled though over the last few years. our economy is far from brilliant, and we have troops in many other places of the world,under a UN mandate,or a NATO one (bosnia,kosovo,sinai,ivory coast,chad...) we just can't be everywhere,but we commit our biggest troop budget to a'stan. and actually,given our brilliant results over there,isn't it time we switched from a military tactic towards a more civilian one?
- American revolutionary war (1775 -1783) - French Revolutionary wars (1792 - 1802) with the First Coalition War (1793-1797) and the Second Coalition War (1799-1802) - War of third Coalition (1805) - War of Fourth Coalition (1806 - 1807) - War of Fifth Coalition (1809) Result 24.
@BellmontXP and my family also is a military one,most being french some having worn the austro-hungarian one,some even the feldgrau,i just want to make sure truth emerges,be it good or bad for our nation's psyche...
Well, as I recall it, Corsica was purchased by France from the Republic of Genoa in 1764, and after a brief civil war it was incorporated into France in 1770. Napoleon Bonaparte was born in 1769, one year after it was transferred to France. So he was Corsican, and he had a heavy Corsican (Italian) accent. HOWEVER, I am not saying this is a bad thing, because hey, as long as he fought for France, as far as I'm concerned, he's French. Tibet and China actually have very different cultures though.
English Victories vs the French: - Edwardian War (1337-1360) - Breton War of Succession (1341-1364) - Italian War (1521-1526) - Williamite War (1689-1691) - Queen Anne's War (1702-1713) - Seven Years' War (1756-1763) with the French-Indian War (1754-1763) and the Third Carnatic War (1756-1763). - Peninsular War (1808-1814) - Seventh Coalition War (1815) Result 10.
There is also a very interesting story about the Maginot line btw..almost unknown too (at least not initially): it was PLANNED to do a line from Holland to Rhin..passing through Belgium too... for nationalist pride and reasons, Dutch and Belgium REFUSED it; they thought to be 'neutral' would protect them against germans if a new war broke: we then built it only in france..even if was of course from start totally unsufficient and almost useless knowing german habits..from start. of course,.
After the Dunkirk disaster and the cease-fire, many French soldiers wanted to come back to France to protect their family. It wasn't against Britain and this is natural. Many soldiers later joined the Resistance or Free France in England or in Northern Africa. There was even a resistant organisation only for military: Organisation de résistance de l'armée (ORA) or the Organisation civile et militaire (OCM).
To Misky69 more pricesly, like in Sarajevo they are securing the airport. Kabul's airport is the very single airport in the whole country. French troops there are door keeping the only exit/entrance for western forces supply and reinforcements. You guess it's a key mission given to key troops only.
Patton? Do you knows that he made a part of his military training in France? He based the first American school of armored cars in France. During the first World War, he was equipped with French material. He fought in the side of the French and was under the command of the French HQ. He was persuaded to have been during one of its previous lives a general of Napoleon (not of Wellington, hahaha).
@AllectusL Thank you sir , we are sharing the same feelings . I get sad everytime i hear us soldiers die . France & USA , old friends , allies for life
and even if you dislike UNO missions, they are very usefull, we do many more than you all over the World. It's maybe not a fighting experience but for our overseas operations and logistic, that's a good job.
@BellmontXP O_O And didn't that elder Afghan notice that the U.S. Marines weren't speaking the same language than the Soviets he used to fight in the 80's ?
At the contrary, the French army in 1780s did the fighting at sea and forbade the British to renforce Cornwallis, plus the final battles on land. We could indeed call it "essential" like you in 1944. But in 1917, you can't credit yourself as the main victor. We were. We edicted the rules of Treaty of Versailles and the French army after 1918 was credited as the best in the World.
No, Ney's idioty is right but the Old Guard was crushing Wellington forces until Blücher came. Wellington said "Give me night or Give me Blücher" because he could no longer stand against Napoleon. Weaknesses of the French Army in 40 are true but the BEF nearly was as ill-equiped as us and you didn't manage to do better than us. And notice thar Germans didn't attack the Maginot Line so we will never know if it could have been efficient or not.
Max Hastings is a brit and a contested historian. Ask for Aussies what they think about him! Montgomery did bad in Normandy like in Netherlands, all good historians would testify it. From en.wikipedia: "In December 1943, it was announced that Eisenhower would be Supreme Allied Commander in Europe. In January 1944, he resumed command of ETOUSA and the following month was officially designated as the Supreme Allied Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force (SHAEF), ...
In Dunkirk French Armée du Nord covered the retreat of the BEF and didn't hide in ruins. Look especially to the siege of Lille which gave 5 days to british for retreating. French covered the retreat while you joined your boats. Don't switch role, French covered the British. If DEIGHTON said the contrary, that already ends the minimal esteem I could have for his works. Noone British were in Lille and only a few regiments were with the Armée du Nord for counter-attacking Panzerdivisins.
Au vietnam, il n'y a pas eu que les troupes us! il y'a eu également une coalition : australiens, néo zelandais, coréen ... c'est un sujet méconnu mais TRES intéressant. Dans l'armée Australienne (les Diggers) il y'a eu également des appelés...
Dix Soldats Morts Pour La France. Neuf du 8ème RPIMA, Un du 2ème REP. Ne les oublions pas... Qu'ils reposent en paix. Que leurs Familles soient consolées par l'immense tristesse de la Nation, humble et reconnaissante .
I do not know any specific battle, but when Thousands of your soldier are slaughtered, and troops are called back home to stop blood shed call that a defeat.
From en.wikipedia: French looses in WW2 were 567,600 (Military deaths 217,600) and 1 million in French Indochina. British in WW2: 449,800 (Military deaths 382,700). Yes, you lost more soldiers than us BUT we lost many soldiers too (Free French, you remember?) and much more civilians than you (starvation, massacres, deportations, Gestapo and Vichy Milicia operations against the Resistants, etc...). Who finally suffered the most? We.
Just look my list: I wrote France lost the Peninsula War and the 7th Coalition War (so Waterloo). I don't see any humour in it anyway...but you may have light in you, explain me. Anyway, don't take too much pride for Waterloo, if it wasn't for Blücher ans his troops which outnumbered us, Waterloo would have been very different, a victory for French on the way to Brussels.
...serving in a dual role until the end of hostilities in Europe in May 1945. In these positions he was charged with planning and carrying out the Allied assault on the coast of Normandy in June 1944 under the code name Operation Overlord, the liberation of western Europe and the invasion of Germany. A month after the Normandy D-Day landings on June 6, 1944, the invasion of southern France took place,...
et pour ajouter a cette info durant la periode juin aout 2007 deux personnels sont DCD en service. l'un durant une attaque (enfin suivant les sources) le second durant un accident en vehicule
In Normandy, there were Free French Naval Forces which participated to the Navy bombings on the Atlantic Wall, Commando Kieffer which was the first allied unit to be dropped on Sword Beach and took Ouistreham and French Resistance did all the job for desorganizing germans.
On dit que les Français vont venir appuyer nos gars(Canada) dans le sud. J'ai toujours su qu'on pourrait compter sur vous un jour. Si c'est vrai, je suis bien content que ce soit vous qu'on envoie en renfort.Dans le sud, ça prend des pros.
- Italian war (1551-59) with the Conquest of Calais (1558) by Duc de Guise - French religion war, england failed to protect French protestants at Siege of La rochelle and retreated in 1628 - War of the League of Augsburg (1688 - 1697) with the King William's war (1689 - 1697) - Spanish succession war (1701 - 1714) - Austrian succession war (1740 - 1748) with the King george's war (1740 - 1748) and the First Carnatic war (1744 - 1748)
French Tanks were for the most part bad-armoured, had no radio, a WW1-styled canon and were slow. The only good one was Somua but it was built late and in little quantities -no effect on this campaign- so we can say French had no good tanks at this time. The same was for British tanks. But it's right we used WW1 tactics and I never said it was a foreign fault.
by the way, the Agincourt/Waterloo names funnily given are fabulous exemples of brit exemplary history respect level when it comes to auto-glorification (of course :) ) ... and over the top pretentious well known rewrittings.. displaying their favorites heroes exploits in all their greatness and under every angles; i named the brits great heroes told to the smart school boys - no need to question it, a brit historian 'knowing all the facts' claimed it, was true :) ..
Plus we won WW1 (US support was late and tiny, we got the hard work on our own) we were beaten in 1940 but came back with Free France (10% of allied forces in 44), lost in Indochina but were undefeated in Algeria (this war was a great success of counter-insurection campaign that the US copied for Iraq War), got successes in all our UNO and NATO missions and participated successfully in Gulf War. I think we have "a little" much more successes that you "historically speaking" accept to credit us.
Len Deighton just points out that allies had far greater resources than the Germans but failed because bad equipements, WW1 strategy rather than a modern one, etc... But this is right for BEF too! Your equipements also were poor and you didn't face germans better than us. The blame for the fall of France lies on all the Allies shoulders and France has its part, I have never denied them.
Sorry but the hurriest were the British, French weren't even sure the British sailors would accept them rather than their compatriots. Jacques Mordal is a historian for the Navy. Why would have he spoken about this battle? Even if he would, I've still not found any quote about this. His book about the Battle of France is about 1944-45! not the campaign of 40!
No French divisions lacked of fighting spirit. 100,000 French died in defending the country in two little months while you were jumping to the Channel.
MONTGOMERY was the Allied chief for the Ground Invasion, he served Eisenhower! Look even at the Longest Day film, he just spent two seconds in this film! I know what Deleguation means and of course he didn't give all the orders but he worked on the most important. All wasn't delegated. Monty did not the main job, he did his part. And Falaise was also closed by French!! Leclerc with his 2ème DB did the job and his mission was as successfull as the Poles'.
I didn't read Shulman. It's probably right. But is right too what Hitler said to the journalist Lutz Koch after the Battle of Bir-Hakeïm: "You have heard, gentlemen, what Koch recounts. It is a new proof of the thesis I've always supported; namely, that French are still, after us, the best soldiers in Europe. France will always have the possibility, even with its current birthrate, to raise a hundred divisions...
It doesn't matter if a Corsican was leading. His Marshals were French, and from 1792-1809 the majority of the Army was French. Hitler was Austrian, but he still managed to rip Europe a new one while leading Germany. France HAS won entire wars. Hundred Years War. French Revolutionary Wars (notice the plural in "wars". 95% of the Napoleonic Wars. Crimean War. Greek War of Independence. World War I. And, in a way, World War II.
@christmar67 Et ouais ... le français - ou plutôt le "vieux françois", comme on disait à l'époque - a été la langue officielle de la Cour d'Angleterre pendant le règne de Guillaume le Conquérant. Et même pendant un certain temps après, je crois. Sans parler des mots comme pork, beef et veel, qui sont tirés du français.
French were part of Operation Cobra and played their role in closing the Falaise pocked with Poles. Montgommery just failed many times in the tryings to crush germans in Normandy and those actions made later the liberation of the region. This was Patton who finally led the victory. There was no americans in the Battle for Paris. They refused to enter there and wanted to cross the Seine river in Melun. Only French Forces and Resistants delivered the city. Check yourself, you unknowledged man.
Funny.. Basil Liddell Hart WW2 anthology book was the first i read on WW2.. long time ago.. i liked a lot too .. it is only later i heard it was admitted he was extremely biaised in favor of english side (well, can't be blame too much anyway..i never read he insulted the french fighters at least..) : and he omitted (or simply did not know at that time) some detaisl that were known later.. but i keep a good memory of his ww2 book at least... open mind, we said ? i try.. me ^
The return of Liverpool !.. the Reds shall not pass.. :D really more and more like the black prince vid.. kinda stunning and to respect devotion though..damn.. :-)
@kravkid510 I must admit that, for an American, you suprise me since your comments are not like the typical '' French surrender'' or ''Canada has a military ?''
Adolf Hitler answer to the journalist Lutz Koch, coming back from Bir Hakeim: "You have heard, gentlemen, what Koch recounts. It is a new proof of the thesis I've always supported; namely, that French are still, after us, the best soldiers in Europe. France will always have the possibility, even with its current birthrate, to raise a hundred divisions. We will definitely, after this war, have to set up a coalition able to military control a country capable of such impressive military feats."
- as the Americans did in the Philippines. They too succumbed in the end though. The British had more important theaters to concentrate on ( hell they even gave away Singapores only tanks to the Russians ), and were always gonna lose this fight. That they lost it so badly is yes, chiefly Percivals fault, but not at all only his fault.
Yeah, some wars we won, some wars we won, this is the common rule for every nations. I was just answering to USN1985 who was a "little" mistaken about our History. Anyway never mind, we ended the dispute. I agree the future is important too.
La nation doit être unie dans ces moments là si on veut tenir et gagner et tout le monde doit porter le deuil de ces pertes et partager la peine des familles comme si c'était la leur En tous cas c'est mon cas, d'autant que je suis très concernés par cela :-( "Pour nos Braves !!!"
And no, not most French supported the Vichy government. What about those in the North, the occupied zone? They weren't too happy about the German occupation there. And even in the South, there was not a sense of "oh, let's collaborate", there was a sense of resignation. Mind you, we've been through a previous world war that was devastating for us, what makes you think we would have the heart for a second? But being an American, you will never understand this.
...We will definitely, after this war, have to set up a coalition able to military control a country capable of such impressive military feats." I don't doubt of the British soldier ability in WW2 as today. I doubt even less about the French soldier ability in all our History.
France: Indochina (this is why we were not in Korea, poor jerk), Suez (with you, Mr Stupid), Algeria, Gabon, Congo, Chad, Guinea, Lebanon, Yougoslavia, GW1 (not GW2, cause we are not poodles), Ivory Coast, Afghanistan....And I recently heard an American officer who had very rough words toward British (specially for your job in Iraq)...
Plus, French and Belgian soldiers are those in charge of clear the Afghan soil of mines and all unexploded ammo, and that's as hard as a "real" fight. Ce sont les Belges et les Français qui déminent l'Afghanistan, et c'est tout aussi dur qu'un accrochage avec les talibans.
"Eisenhower played no direct part on the planning of D-Day" What a shame you speak with me about History although you are such a unknowledged man. He was "just" the great leader of the operation. Did Beethoven play no direct part on the planning of his symphonies? Did Alexander play no direct part on the planning of the Asian conquest?
Just for the sake of some real military history on armor tacticians in ww2 and application, just a little l i n k (remove 5), all the same: explaining perfectly the specificities between Fuller-Hart in UK (not Hart alone btw..), De Gaulle in Fr, and Guderian in Ger.. and much more of course. And obviously relating the exact level of technical (un)preparation of the uk for it in 1940..no myths, no biases, no denials here, just serious studies..even in english..
