Regarding Hunter-Gatherers, it might be more fun to look at the story of Cain and Abel. Cain was a farmer, and Abel a shepherd. After the whole debacle of their offerings to god and the first fratricide, God curses Cain and says farming will never work for him again. Cain will have to wander on the earth for a living. So really, literal-bible-reading gives us Cain as the first Hunter-Gatherer, and it is considered a curse compared to a farming lifestyle (which is itself a curse compared to paradise).
I’m glad Ron acknowledges that the creation myth has roots extended back before the ancient Israelites but he stops woefully short of its true origins. In truth, the biblical creation story, which derives from the Mesopotamian account, is a mash up of two much older stories that comparative mythology calls The Earth Diver (the cosmos is a vast sea of chaos and an animal, the diver, dives down and brings up bit of mud to create the world) and The Divine Pair (one of the pair is sacrificed and its body used to create the cosmos). The Enuma Elish takes the divine pair and sets that story in the vast sea of chaos. But the motifs themselves are spread far and wide throughout the world and point to common ancestor myths that are tens of thousands of years old. Transmission was certainly oral for most of that time.
20:31 I really think that there won't ever be a time when life seen from a broad perspective isn't tumultuous. It's like he said, there is chaos and there is order, sometimes one more than the other.
This is so awesome! Are you familiar with the works of Dr Michael Heiser? He's an biblical scholar specifically in ancient semitic texts, and he has a lot of really good insights into this sort of stuff
The Egyptologist, Donald B. Redford (1992) noted that Genesis 10:14 mentions a location called Pathrusim, which Dr. Redford claims is found only in Egyptian Demotic scripts no earlier than 600 BC. If Redford is right, this loanword dates the book of Genesis to no earlier than 600 BC. Cf. page 405-406: "...Pathrusim, which is a masculine plural back formation from Egyptian p3t3rsi, "the south land," a designation of Upper Egypt originating in the New Kingdom, but common in the form cited (i.e., with the article) only in demotic. (cf. p. 406, footnote 49, "I.e, from about 600 BC on..." (Donald B. Redford. 1992. Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times. Princeton University Press. Princeton, New Jersey).
3:05 The funny thing about Genesis is that it only took humans like 3 chapters to mess everything up. For such a giant tome of literature, just 3 chapters lol
So I don’t think Smith’s eden theory is right, but he is right that the transition to agriculture was tumultuous because it insists upon the necessity of stone hard land rights, and a surplus of food drastically grows population which causes tribes to push their borders eventually overlapping with other tribes inciting conflict such as no man had seen before. Just because farming is easier doesn’t mean it doesn’t cause it’s own unique problems. In the Dongba religion of the Naxi peoples of southwest China have a flood myth where god floods the world because the people misused and abused the land in their farming techniques. In this myth a dude builds a boat where he and his seven other family members are saved, and all people today are from those eight survivors. I know it’s wild how close that is. There are major differences that I’m leaving out mostly because I have a hard time remembering those differences, but what I said I heard from the Naxi when I was living over there.
I’m on board with Daniel Quinn’s Ishmael perspective, so it’s good to hear a counter. The counter wasn’t convincing, but I’ll rewatch and consider again. Thanks!
37:43 I think this is really interesting. Going by a name spelled backwards might symbolize a way of life that isn't true to the self (and God, if you're of faith), but then finding yourself and your calling may happen. Especially with Noah
No offense intended - but the host needs to work on not smacking his lips every 10 seconds - especially in an audio format. I really can't get past the 1st minute of this video.
Love the discussion. Underwhelmed with your guests. This happens to be a topic of interest to me. Your questions were great and interesting! I would love to see an interview or panel of your current guests with Ken Ham. Seems like the conversation was limited by world view. So if you add someone like Ken Ham you would add a layer to the conversation that might spark more questions and might bring some missing puzzle pieces. Keep asking questions!!!!
just because someone has a different worldview that doesn’t automatically mean it’s a productive or useful worldview to incorporate. i strongly suspect that there is no good reason to involve ken ham in such discussions.
I am not well versed with the Bible or Genesis and it was a bit hard to understand the conversation at times because of that, but ultimately it was still a pleasant listen with excellent guests that vibed with you really well. Also, maybe this particular livestream with guests should be called..."dnoublleps". **ba-dum-tss**
Hi Julian! I was intrigued by this discussion and ultimately disappointed in your guests' understanding of the Bible. I think you have some incredibly insightful questions, and I admire your desire to find the Truth that stands before you. I highly encourage you to check out a RU-vid channel called Answers in Genesis (AiG). It goes into many of the same kinds of topics you cover here, however it uses science, mathematics, genetics, history, and other observations to /support/ the creation of the universe, man's expulsion from the Garden, the Biblical flood, and other such ancient accounts. AiG's founder and CEO, Ken Ham, even participated in a debate against Bill "the Science Guy" Nye where they argue over the flood and Noah's Ark. There are a lot of other excellent resources within this platform that may provide a different perspective on the questions you still seek answers on. God bless you on your search for Truth!
This was frustrating and appalling that these scholars were treated this way. There is so much on which they could have been questioned and you went for giants. SMH.
My brother played a homeschool football team from Germany in high school. He told me they were giants. Most well over 6 foot tall. I wasn’t there but I believe him. If I believe my bother, I have no doubt a similar thing could happen when a Hebrew army marches against the sea people that terrorized the rest of the mediterranean at the time.
Richard Elliot Friedman is no biblical scholar,he does not even understand the Bible.The Bible is not a man’s book. All scripture is given by inspiration of God.God told Moses in Deuteronomy 4:2,” You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it ,that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.Mr.Friedman is biblically illiterate.Jeremiah 52:12-23,”Now in the fifth month,on the tenth day of the month(which was the nineteenth year of king Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon),Nebuzaradan,the captain of the guard,who served the king of Babylon,came to Jerusalem.He burned the house of the Lord and the king’s house;all the houses of Jerusalem,that is,all the houses of the great,he burned with fire.Verses 17-23,”The bronze pillars that were in the house of the Lord,and the carts and the bronze Sea that were in the house of the Lord,the Chaldeans(not the Edomites)broke in pieces,and carried all their bronze to Babylon.They also took away the pots,the shovels,the trimmers,the bowls,the spoons,and all the bronze utensils with which the priests ministered.The basins,the fire pans,the bowls,the pots,the lamp stands,the spoons,and the cups,whatever was solid gold and whatever was solid silver,the captain of the guard took away…etc.Daniel 5:1-5,”Belshazzar the king made a great feast for a thousand of his lords,and drank wine in the presence of the thousand.While he tasted the wine ,Belshazzar gave the command to bring the gold and silver vessels which his father Nebuchadnezzar had taken from the temple which had been in Jerusalem,that the king and his lords,his wives,and his concubines might drink from them.Then they brought the gold vessels that had been taken from the temple of the house of God which had been in Jerusalem;and the king and his lords,his wives,and his concubines drank from them.They drank wine,and praised the gods of gold and silver,bronze and iron,wood and stone.In the same hour the fingers of a man’s hand appeared and wrote opposite the lamp stand on the plaster of the wall of the king’s palace;and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote….End of the Babylonian Captivity BC 539 Ezra 1:1-5.Mr.Friedman has created a false narrative that is based on incorrect knowledge.Revelation 22:18-19,”For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:If anyone adds to these things,God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy,God shall take away his part from the Book of Life…”
You're right. Richard Elliot Friedman has only had a Doctorate in Hebrew Bible and Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations since 1978, spent 40+ years teaching Hebrew bible in universities, wrote several books, commentaries, and peer reviewed papers, and can read biblical hebrew, ancient akkadian, aramaic, greek, latin, and Ugaritic. Your credentials must be similar and seem to be a better authority on bible study. After all, you've demonstrated that you have the ability to copy/paste scripture.
