The GOAT of TEKKEN Does NOT Like TEKKEN 8 

Disclaimer because I know there's gonna be people in the comments on some dumb shit. I regard Knee as the GOAT of Tekken and Arslan Ash as the GOAT of Tekken 7

"Idk, Knee is entitled to his opinion but I'm not sure I necessarily agree." *plays against Eddy once* "Knee is 100% right everything he said is correct"

"Losing in this game really isn't fun" Bruh, even winning in this game doesn't feel fun...

Sometimes when I fight Eddy i just don't know what the fuck is happening

Everyone feels like a rush down character.

Its not about being snowballed, its about everything being a guess. And a guess has nothing to do with skill.

This is my first Tekken game so I can offer a bit of an outsiders perspective, I'm currently in Mighty Ruler with Hwo. Tekken 8 provides a plethora of what feels to be broken offensive options that lead to a metric fuck ton of 50/50 mixes. In any other fighting game this would be an insane issue that would ruin a competitive game, but Tekken provides a lot of defensive tools, such as armor that doesn't cost a resource, sidewalks, and ducks, that can provide some counter play. What makes the game not fun to play at times is when you run into certain characters, you have to simply guess correctly on a 50/50 to avoid losing the round. With how high damaging combos and wall combos are, guessing wrong on a 50/50 can truly lose you the round. What really gets people upset is that most of the characters that can just kill you off a wrong guess also happen to have almost infinite plus frames and chip damage when they start burning heat and using their heat smashes. These characters that have insane frames, a ton of mix ups, and high damage also just so happen to be the easiest characters to play. I have never seen a fighting game that caters towards bad players as much as Tekken 8 does. I've quickly fallen in love with this game and I'm not doing myself any favors by playing Hwo as a noob but I do hope we see some common sense changes like heat smashes being minus on block or anything else that could prevent mashing being the most optimal strategy.

After a few nerfs I think this game will be in a better state. They also need to consider some changes to the system properties as mentioned in the video. The game is still in its developing stages, hopefully they're listening and "fix" the issues with the game rn

Tekken 7 was my first tekken And i feel betrayed right now with how they just completwly changed it from neutral heavy game to unga bunga

I think that fighting games simply need to have good balance between offense and defense in order to be fun to play (and watch) and I think that T7 was perfect in that department in ANY level of play except the absolute highest tournament level. It pisses me off that namco screwed the game just because Arslan and Knee liked to backdash for 60 seconds straight on infinite every time they played.

Look I get everyone’s complaints. But what I worry about is someone winning Evo or another big major with defensive fundamentals in spite of the Heat Mechanics and then getting shitted on. To me it seems like these complaints are trending more towards discrediting players than having valid criticisms for developers.

I feel like honestly there would be nothing to bitch about if everything in the game had clear counter play. Some things in the game clearly dont have counter play the biggest of which is the heat system. If we just had consistent counter play to these seemingly unavoidable 50/50 situations, I don't think anyone compitent would have a genuine reason to complain

I like the game being more agressive and all, but at higher ranks it just becomes "you make a wrong guess you explode" and guessing isn't fun.

What's the point of blocking but still take damage?

I personally enjoy the game I just hope Bandai Namco are aware of the state of the game. I have high hopes for this game

there's so many times I seen you do RFF df4 into jab into df4 into jab repeat and I wanted to scream sidestep or duck so bad lol

I'm new to tekken and I've made it to flame ruler with asuka, around half my matches have been decided by panick rage arts and one move spammers, 80% of the time I'm losing to bullshit and that's what makes losing so infuriating However when I do all this to people, I'm laughing hysterically cuz I know my opponent is fuming lmao

Chip damage feels like the part of the game that most needs to be adjusted. Still enjoying Tekken 8 though!

The one who commented on your chat saying ‘Knee needs to learn the matchup’ is just clown shit funny.

Heat should start at 0. Blocking should increase heat gauge. Defense is then rewarded and heat isn’t as relied on.

The only thing which is totally wrong (imho) with Heat system is low hitting Heat finishers (smash?). It would be better if all of them were mids. Guessing Kazuya's or Victor's low is frustrating, not even talkin abiut King's 50/50 hit, while as Hwoarang you have to waste your hit to keep preasure and hope it's not interuptex by ANY attack in the game Why I like Rage mechanics, is coz its equal for any character. You have i15 hit with the same properties and same counterplay.

I think the main problem in t8 is tracking on moves, eddy df1, jin df2, jins electric tracks both ways, Nina's 1+2 is mid marking fast, has pushback and it's like -4.. They say step is better but what's the point if tracking on moves is improved. Another problem is heat smashes, you can have read on some, like that of dragunov or hwoarang and then you gotta chase them to whiff punish. And then ofc about 10 to 15 characters are just too good and need to adjusted

The biggest problem is heat engagers being incredibly strong neutral abilities. There are so many super fast 12 of 13 frame long tange heat engagers that instantly put you into a -20 situation which prevents movement at all. Theyre allowed to just get a free guaranteed 50/50 that is unavoidable. Its just not right, even 50/50 characters like kazuya were still steppable and they had ti actually get into range 0 in the first olace which isnt always easy. Once you are at range 0 with a free 50/50 you can just continue to loop them until they guess right. Its not fun.

The naruto swing music got me

There's this thing where everything compounds to make everything else worse, any one of those things by themselves is fine, even a couple together is ok, but it's just all of it all at once, chip damage being insane (and not particularly evenly spread eg: azu, victor, alisa) tracking throws, heat in general and the plus frames it gives, the generally enhanced tracking on strings indirectly nerfing the buffed stepping just makes things too much. It all makes everyone feel like a rush down character and homogenized. Defensive play should be rewarded and the casino aspects need to be toned down, counter play should never boil down to, just guess correctly, I should be rewarded for having good defense in a game where offense is so overwhelmingly incentivized. Maybe the address it by making chip something that only happens in heat, like in SF6 where you only take chip and get stunned in burnout, maybe they can nerf tracking on throws and strings and moves in general so stepping is more useful and you can build your defense around movement (i'd personally like this, it would make things a lot more dynamic for viewers and players) so that blocking isnt necessarily the default but your defense is still rewarding. One thing I can say for certain though, they can't keep dumbing the game down for casuals, eventually there's a point where developers need to look at their casual audience and say learn how to play the game at a deeper level, learn how to block, how to wiff punish, how to step or duck or back dash and break throws etc. Past a certain point making things more and more casual friendly just makes things worse and worse for the players that will stick with the game in the long term and for the pro players that are the ambassadors for the game that can bring in new people. Or maybe I'll just go learn Xaioyu so that I can just woop under everything and feel like my defense means something.

Dragunov casually ends rounds under 10sec. Yes, even at pro level. Plus monstruous combo that casually deal 60% and last >10seconds. So yeah, that's a bit too much.

I think the +17 after a Heat Engager lands is rather misleading, as I'm pretty sure most of that is just the character running forward. It's a different story if the HE wallsplats, but don't think anything is guaranteed if one hits out in the open and someone just blocks afterward. Also, fuck Eddy. At the end of the day, if *you're* playing Tekken 8 and *you* enjoy the game, it shouldn't matter if someone else doesn't. That doesn't mean you should attack someone if they have reasonable criticisms about the game. There are definitely some balance decisions in this game I don't agree with, but even now I feel it's the most balanced "vanilla" Tekken we've ever had. I love this game, and even though I hit my first red rank in a little over two months when it took me years to do that in Tekken 7, I think Tekken 8 is more difficult.

Chip damage in tekken never should've been a thing however we don't live in a could've and should've world with that being said I think bamco should just reduce the chip of all regular except for the really strong ones in heat I play jin and im pretty great w him but in tekken 7 when I played someone defensive opening them up really mattered and sound so it took skill and competence. where as in tekken 8 all it'll take is one optimized combo wall pressure and 3 pokes. Bc ur taking damage even if ur blocking the game objectively is easier to win in which is good for stupid fun but for the average tekken lifespan it's suicidal for the game imo. Bc it discourages one of the main elements of any fighting game but especially tekken which is defense. Thx for coming to my ted talk

I've been playing hardcore since Tekken 2, participating in local tournaments since the Tag 1 days, but after putting a couple hundred hours into T8 trying to give it the benefit of the doubt, I think I'm done for now. It's just........ not fun. No counterplay for so many things, endless 50/50s, and the devs just don't seem concerned about the state of things.

I can't lie, i fucking love playing Tekken 8. I haven't been this glued to a competitive game since i discovered wavedashing in Melee over a decade ago.

I don't know what it was like at the release of T7 but it feels like everyone just keeps bitching about every character in this game, except for their main.

Wow. Knee doesn't like Tekken 8. That's very interesting. It makes sense to an extent.

4:24 why do people keep saying this? Yea offense is insanely good, but defense is just as good in this game. Arslan was in a smaller tourney not too long ago and got fucked but a defensive Paul while trying to crutch Nina and azucena. If that doesn’t scream defense is good I don’t know what else will.

Make heat a managed resource through a meter. Granting a full bar EVERY round is a big reason why this game has devolved into a shitstorm.

Nah but you're so right. Chip damage when in heat makes 0 sense when there are already moves that give chip damage. Why not just leave those moves to do the chipping since being in heat is already a huge buff to every character and it also makes no sense how on block you get +18 for moves that on hit become launchers. One of my biggest surprises in the beginning was Lee's gigantic range keepout that just traight up launches your ass for 70+ damage in heat , the characters are strong without heat so even just going +5 on block with an otherwise unsafe move would be insanely broken to keep momentum. Another issue I have is that they buffed movement but made grabs homing and that's especially annoying for unbreakables and on top of that a lot of moves that aren't homing have unreasonable tracking and I don't mean they somewhat cover the character's weak side but that they flat out turn towards your character to fuck you up. Pre-nerf Azucena WR 3, 2 was one of the best examples, if you side stepped the knee she literally TURNED 180 degrees sometimes to elbow you... Its not a homing move so what gives? Also I feel like the hitboxes are god awful, there are moves where you have so much space between between characters that you could fit a Gigas in between the two but somehow the moves still hit. Its already hard to play defensive and baiting people to whiff a move is also quite difficult against certain characters becaause they just have infinite range. And the last of my many grievences because honestly I could go on and on... Everyone hated Kunimitsu's Kunai because she can throw it and then hit you cross map but honestly blocking her Kunai at least ended her turn meanwhile in this game we have Viktor being able to stance cancel spam his gun, Nina cross map glock heat burst, Kazuya cross map laser and so on. And the cherry on top is their disgusting monetization where for € 70 you buy the game and then you are forced to buy the season pass to get the characters to lab because they aren't free and look at Eddie, wtf you even do against him if you can't lab at all.. But it also has mtx, battle pass with default blender assets. If they monetize the game like F2P Gacha do then at least give the characters for free to lab / earn? How is it that Helldivers and many more paid games manage to pull an extremely fair monetization but a € 70 competitive game backed by a huge corporate cant. Low key regret buying the deluxe since they witheld information to bend us over later with mtx. But yea game is fun if you play with friends in lobbies or you dont care much and just wanna duke it out, for anything else and just morally what they did with the monetization its almost on hte same level as a Fifa title, disgusting. Too bad its the only decent 3d fighting game that's relevant.

I think Tekken tried to be an aggressive fighting game in the most convoluted way possible . Virtua Fighter is also another 3D fighting game that's also aggression and read heavy but also has good and consistent defensive tools . But unlike Tekken it does it naturally with it's design and not through overtuned mechanic like heat or some meter system . But Tekken not only added a busted mechanic for forcing players to play aggressive it also nerfed defensive play style. There's also some character specific play style that doesn't work in this game while some other characters are benefiting too much from it . I feel like all of this can be fixed and I hope it gets fixed as soon as possible . I do enjoy the game for what it is but I can't deny it can be better then what it currently is .

the QR code is great now good job

3:11 Eddie's legs didn't even reach you

both Knee and Arslan walked it back From a fundamental level, this is a new tekken and not even a year old T7 sucked in its first year in arcades Can wait at least 1 year before going full volume

3:59 - Pepe Eddy

I know people who have literally stopped playing because of the way it's playing not compared to that first month

tekken 8 is made for noobs and not competitive players. The gameplay is dumb you just go aggressive and mixup your opponent and often your opponent has no counterplay. Gaem can be very good though i think if they turn down or change some systems to lower amount of 50/50 systems and buff defensive play.

even in the initial release of Tekken 7, it was in the arcades. Side stepping was meh and Hwoarangs combo damage was insane. after time tekken 7 was fixed and almost everybody loved it. This maybe will be the same in Tekken 8, that the game will evolve.

I'm still playing Tekken 7. Tekken King Heihachi. I'll probably be maining Devil Jin when I finally go to Tekken 8. I am sure I'll be annoyed for a while from what I've seen and heard.

This is my opinion on the pro player situation at the moment. They are all upset that they are having their get good moment. Instead of wanting to learn new mechanics and understand them. They want to complain that it isn't Tekken 7 or a previous version. That's not me saying there aren't issues with T8. There certainly are. Let's be completely real here. This is about them losing to people that they think they shouldn't be losing to and are blaming it on new mechanics because they don't want to learn or understand how they work. Yes, this is a lot more aggressive than any previous Tekken, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I hate to break it to people, but a balanced game doesn't necessarily make it a fun game. You'll still have one character that sits above everyone else and others that take more work to do damage. You'll never truly have a balanced game. If the pros were picking the most broken characters in the game. They probably wouldn't be complaining. Maybe about balance issues and stuff, but they wouldn't be complaining that the game was bad. They're upset that they have to learn new mechanics and that the stuff that has been around for decades no longer works. It's their get good moment and they are unhappy because they now have to figure out other ways to get in.

It is all a guess. Even whiff punishing the majority of the time. Even a proper sidestep. Name something considered fundamental and BE HONEST, it likely comes down to a guess. Well you know, a super well timed and thought out "read" if one is right... just a pointless guess if the opponent is right. I love Knee and value his opinion but it is an opinion. He used to only have to guess a few times in 10 seconds bc he could use movement in T7 to avoid the mix... now he is forced to guess at max T8 speed. The speed and ability to avoid the instances of mix has changed but it is ALL still guessing.

Im literally exact 2 weeks in this is my first tekken played a lot of dbfz mk11 and 100 hrs in mk1. I’m flame ruler with my baby girl reina (165/99) even tho I have no idea about matchup or whatever I would say I can play reina rlly good offensively but my def is bad my frame punishment (i punish everything w jabs or my df 1,2 ) my sidesteps sucks and I would say I got without really any problems and fun to this rank (I started exactly when eddy came out I’m pretty sure without that everyone starts at beginner I would had a easier time in low ranks) . I noticed that red purpl and blue ranks play scrubby af and get thru with it ofc there are exceptions but this game has to much bs in my opinion victors armor into heat for example which is safe on block💀 wtf namco there are more such dumb moves and that heat burst and smash is + on block wtf . All in all I would say I agree even tho I’m new and a casual these pro gamers have any right to complain sorry for my English is my 3rd language

I think Tekken 8 is a huge shift in the franchise. I think it's never been more fun. I can understand older players not liking it or unwilling to adapt. Play 7 still. There are Smash players that refuse to play past Melee. Mv players still on 3. But it means nothing to me of the goat of a game doesn't enjoy the latest one and it shouldn't to most people. If you personally enjoy it, that's what matters.

Tekken 6 was peak tekken gameplay wise. Don’t comment me about balance lol or net code

You do coaching? Oh man I wanna be coached

Thats Tekken 8 for ya, the quintessential clip of this game is eddy button mashing the goofy 50/50 nonsense and getting 2 perfects in a match. I miss when perfects meant something...

I have to admit tekken 7 was so much better than this games current state. And honestly i wish theyd just go back to tekken 7 formula as well. Plus they should bring back armor king XD

"best way to describe this game is snowball" sounds like every modern fg. Street fighter 6 lost its identity. Used to be footsies. Neutral. Now its rush offense. High damage. Snowballing 50/50 mix city pressure. This kills the skill gap. Makes everything accessible. It isnt a coincidence that every modern fg is like this. All these studios literally have roundtables and set a trend for each other. "this is the first iteration" unfortunately the bones of the game is directed to offense. I will not get my hopes up that this fundamental direction will change.

Such a waste. T7 was a selling success. Namco had all the answers to make T8 perfect by just asking themselves 2 questions: Why Tekken 7 worked so well and what was the major issues with T7 ? And from those 2 answers building T8, but no, they had to make a total revolutionary shit, completely breaking 15 years of a formula/ identity that was working. Major complains of T7 was : - Combos too long (average combo is 8-10 hits) - Ultra defensive meta - Not accessible Accessibility problem would been solved just by : Making Normal backdash like T8. Movement is a core mechanic of Tekken so it should not be literally blocked behind execution. Ofc KBD is there so we keep the depth of mastering KBD for maximum efficiency but the normal backdash should be viable and usable instantly for casuals, and give them straight away a good taste of what it is to be able to move in Tekken. Historically a beginner was literally unable to move because of how unusable the normal backdash was and thus forced to guess all day long on the opponent mashing with zero knowledge of what's coming, so randomly ducking or button panicking to try to get out of that and thus getting launched in a massive combo. THAT IS THE BIGGEST HISTORICAL PROBLEM FOR CASUALS. And Bamco literally made the game like this for all the player base. Forced guessin, well done, you couldn't be more wrong - Shrinking movelists. Game suffers from bloating over the years. - Add special style. That's it. Combos too long ? Very simple : Juggle system like T5 (5-7 hits) that's feels natural for all chars with usable wall carry routes. And make the game less about launch but diversify big damage mechanics like KND into stomps or Guaranteed moves on hit or ch like T8 has put. How to make the meta less defensive ? Old/T8 low parry system with huge scaling - Stop giving Magic 4 launchers unless it's char defining or committing (like lee), magic 4 should give guaranteed damage (either KND into stomp or standing guaranteed damage). That's it - No more infinite stages allowed for tournaments. No need for heat system, no cheap, the core mechanics worked and T7 is living proof of it

Ngl all new fighting games have changed to more aggressive playstyle. IMO it’s boring to sit and watch people back dash and block and not attack people wanna see fast playstyle and rushing down your opponent granted I do think it needs to be tweaked on t8 but I people don’t like to watch a slow paced game and watch time tik away

Eddy being able to spam a safe mid power crush just doesnt sit right with me

Anyone finding Tekken 8 is severely dying? Barely any ranked games since the update for pluggers and terrible battle pass

Heat and deletion of rage drive is just unnecesary imo.... Heat is such a non Tekken with Meter and such... at least with rage drive its a move that guaranteed a slight + and you can only use it once keeping the match fkow generally uninterrupted... Now they have this heat BS... You do heat engager , flow of the match break, heat smash, flow of the maych break again... it shouldnt be in Tekken....

Chip dmg could be less , heat burst could be less on block. Still love T8

We need to go back to Tekken 2 mechanics.

Well only time will tell if Bamco's appeal to a wider audience has made this game more successful or not. I'll be eagerly awaiting the sales figures.

My career as a Tekken player also ended in Tekken 8. Movements that are too complex and too fast

Bro you cant just say adapt because yea its a new game but thats the thing its supposed to be tekken and at its core you see tekken but at the same time the changes make is so vastly different it isnt tekken

It encourages mashing which is boring and annoying. I hope t7 doesn't die because if change isnt coming then neither am I. And I waNt to come!

K wiss time travel confirmed

Yo k-wiss this is completely unrelated to the video but have you ever had Poptarts before? I think its an american thing but the entire world deserves to experience them

T8 is good but the Heat feature is annoying now imo.

Time to get Street Fighter

The future is now old man! *Gets baited by plus frame everytime*

Personally the game is a lot of fun to me. I understand people’s frustration though. Tekken 7 was the ultimate Tekken, but it didn’t start that way. On a side note fuck Eddy

Been playing tekken since 5. I'm also not having fun this game. Too much 50:50.

Heat engage have to go,nerf heat smash range,track ,dmg,plus frames. Serious Balances to character and remove this shit "cheap dmg"..

yea cause tekken 8 is ass, being calculated doesnt mean shit just press buttons and you win, hell the fact you can hit blue ranks using modern controls should tell you everything

This my first tekken and i LOVE IT but I've noticed defense doesn't seem to matter as much. Most times im down 2 rounds i just tell myself Fuck this time to go in and see what he knows about hwoarang matchup.... most time i steam roll just by upping my aggression. Tone down the top tiers JUST A BIT, buff up the lowest tiered characters and could be a perfectly balanced roster

Damn, maybe he's the GOAT of Tekken but he definitely ain't the GOAT of the english language.

Goat is ashlan ash

Yagami is the real goat

25:16 did this man just complain because the skill floor was lowered? Because more people can play the game and with a modicum of skill it's worse off? That's very elitist. This is the first Tekken game I can play well. Started with Hwoarang cause he's been my got to since 3 whenever I manage to hope on a Tekken. Ended up on Zafina who I love. I'm stuck bouncing around red rank. The skill floor may have been lowered but it's not going to get me to God tier. Your upper echelon is just fine. You're not going to get beat by no skill. Yes this game is very snowbally but it's not for lack of skill.

The reason t7 lasted so strong was because of the passion of the competitive players. They should tailor the game more towards them. And at least take armour off heat smash.

People always hate new stuff, that's human nature, when electricity was first introduced people were scared, tekken 8 is a master piece stop complaining you guys will never be satisfied

I don't get it, you backdashed every single one of eddy's mixups abd stomped them. What's wrong? Why is everyone hating the character? Like if it wasn't for ff3, he would've been completely dead. Still a defensive character and that makes him suck in this game just like asuka

remove heat from this game.

The Goat of tekken is definitely not nee 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Nah but you're so right, chip damage when in heat makes 0 sense when there are already moves that give chip damage. Why not just leave those moves to do the chipping since being in heat is already a huge buff to every character and it also makes no sense how on block you get +18 for moves that on hit become launchers. One of my biggest surprises in the beginning was Lee's gigantic range keepout that just traight up launches your ass for 70+ damage in heat , the characters are strong without heat so even just going +5 on block with an otherwise unsafe move would be insanely broken to keep momentum. Another issue I have is that they buffed movement but made grabs homing and that's especially annoying for unbreakables and on top of that a lot of moves that aren't homing have unreasonable tracking and I don't mean they somewhat cover the character's weak side but that they flat out turn towards your character to fuck you up. Pre-nerf Azucena WR 3, 2 was one of the best examples, if you side stepped the knee she literally TURNED 180 degrees sometimes to elbow you... Its not a homing move so what gives? Also I feel like the hitboxes are god awful, there are moves where you have so much space between between characters that you could fit a Gigas in between the two but somehow the moves still hit. Its already hard to play defensive and baiting people to whiff a move is also quite difficult against certain characters becaause they just have infinite range. And the last of my many grievences because honestly I could go on and on... Everyone hated Kunimitsu's Kunai because she can throw it and then hit you cross map but honestly blocking her Kunai at least ended her turn meanwhile in this game we have Viktor being able to stance cancel spam his gun, Nina cross map glock heat burst, Kazuya cross map laser and so on. And the cherry on top is their disgusting monetization where for € 70 you buy the game and then you are forced to buy the season pass to get the characters to lab because they aren't free and look at Eddie, wtf you even do against him if you can't lab at all.. But it also has mtx, battle pass with default blender assets. If they monetize the game like F2P Gacha do then at least give the characters for free to lab / earn? How is it that Helldivers and many more paid games manage to pull an extremely fair monetization but a € 70 competitive game backed by a huge corporate cant. Low key regret buying the deluxe thinking I wanna support the devs since they witheld information to bend us over later with mtx while not spending a dime on servers to save your account progression so plugging, scumming is still possible. But yea game is fun if you play with friends in lobbies or you dont care much and just wanna duke it out, for anything else and just morally what they did with the monetization its almost on hte same level as a Fifa title, disgusting. Too bad it's the only decent 3D fighting game on the market that's somewhat relevant.