Hey Trey, yesterday a tragedy happen in paleontology, the Nacional brasilian museum Was Burned entirelly to ashes. The greatest pterosaur collection in the entire world is forever lost... A lot of dinosaur fossils are forever gone, sauropods,therapods... all lost forever. A lot of archeologich stuff is foverer lost, the Whole memories of all colonial memories of our country,all our country history is lost.... it's almost like losing our Whole Family. I am so Sad, and the Worst of all is the goverment here dirty as HELL did nothing to prevent this... there were a Lot of Red flags that showed this outcome. Trey , can you do a video About that? The Whole world needs to know this tragedy and how this is direct Associated With the dirty brasilian governament.... I am a little rusted in my english, sorry About that.
As someone from kennewick. The discovery local legend is even more bonkers. Every year the entire town goes to Columbia Park to watch the hydroplane races and mainly get drunk. The kids who found the skull were really drunk. There's even a song about the discovery that some locals know.
Thats definitely not true I know a bunch of people who live in Kennewick and they never even heard of the Kennewick man I also don’t know anybody who knows a song about this that lives locally not even in the whole tri cities
I live in Kennewick, and even though it is taught in school about the Kennewick man discovery and it is a watermark for our town. I hAve never once heard a song about the discovery haha sorry Mate
if Patrick Stewart was a Brown man he could do that because the Kennewick man was a Copper/Brown man that look like these people specially the guy with the hat (bottom right) 9:03 or 16:12
I thinl he is already a infamous guy back when he's still alive. Due to how much injury he had and his supposed travelling habit we can assume he often got to a lot of troubles
@@ervandrafadhlil403 would make a fantastic movie, therorising how he got the scars and wounds and what his travels were like and at the end they could show news reports of him being found
Dude the 200 Year old National Museum here in brasil was just turned into ashes, it caught on fire out of nowhere, with all the fossils and everything!!! ;-;
Our government did let that happen, the Museum needed repair for the last decades, the Budget was cut many times and no president ever visited it since 1950. They neglected our History and our Science to the point se lost our patrimany, part of our past and much of what we could do in our Future. I'd prefer it to be an accident.
@@MissShembre I used to live near there, I walked the whole length of Columbia park along the water edge race day 1980, 1981, 1982. I must have walked within 10 feet or over him
Haha. I can just picture it, now. "Dude, I just found a human skull!" "Yeah, probably a recent murder. Chuck it In That bush, and we'll check it out after the race." "Cool,man. Let's go!"
But to be fair... if you REALLY want to go and you know that if you would do the right thing you would have to talk to the police for hours.... what would you do? I mean the skull has been there a while... what does it matter to wait 2-3 more hours
It’s very much possible descendants of Kennewick man divided into many tribes that considered each other different people and even warred with each other.
@ThoughtCrime the descendants of the kennewick man would be people that share his DNA.... these ancestry companies use ancient DNA to match people if they are from the Americas, Europe, Africa or Asia. www.nbcrightnow.com/check-it-out/unexpected-dna-link-a-kennewick-man-shares-paternal-lineage-with/article_0d1dd9d8-192e-11e9-a8d2-fb6538151077.html looking at skull shapes was the guessing game from the past.. now they have DNA which clears things.
Don't apologize for being perceived as "political". The history of science is as important as the science itself and it's not easily separable from it.
Science in its purest form isn't political, but because scientific study is conducted by humans, almost all of it is inherently so. There's no possible way for humans to completely separate their internal, unconscious biases and assumptions. Even when we take data at face value, any science that is applied to human life and society is going to end going through a political wringer before it comes out the other end. There's also the question of what we decide to fund or not fund, study or not study, and so on. What, for example, are the motivations behind the scientific search for the basis of homosexuality? Is it to ask questions and find results that frame it as "unnatural" or "natural"? Why do we study the causes of being gay so much, but not the causes of heterosexuality? When we fund such studies, are we implicitly saying that funding research on other subjects is less important? Before the study of science even begins, there are already human biases built into it.
@Lor Miller Science is not a European invention. It's dumb luck that Europeans had gotten their society together first, and therefore were some of the first to invent the organized systems we have to help eliminate bias. Every group of people could have done that given enough time. It's just societal evolution, once one tribe does it, the rest are forced to adapt to keep up, and it just keeps going from there. This happened in europe, asia, and the middle east all independently.
@Lor Miller You missed the entire point because you dismissed "dumb luck" as an opinion. It's not, because like I said, two tribes had an interaction that influnced the growth of technology, and it just so happened that the first two where in Europe. The reason why this probally happened in Europe is because it had less land to give people. They had to take it from each other, and war leads to innovation. Although here I'm talking about the tribes that where in northen europe the greeks and romans predated that. Nethier of them where white, and they had a society that reflected alot of the democratic values we have today. Really, your entire argument boils down to "Whites invented democracy, therefore whites #1" Race is entirely irrelevant, you just want to rush to conclusions that support your rhetoric.
I was in an archaeology class when he was buried. My professor was both happy that Kennewick man was buried but sad that we couldn't get more information from him.
i dont know what was so hard about letting the scientists study the bones for a year or so and then giving them back to the native people to be buried.
@@reviewgodusa9613 because so much was taken from us without consent, including bodies...some still living, that a precedent of macabre events have to be thwarted somehow.
@@shanam.7342 Ancestry tests are wildly vague and also rather inaccurate as every other company that does these things has their own algorithm. Results can even change over time as the technology changes or advances. According to actual genetic scientists, the only accurate info these DNA tests can give you is what continent you are from and that's about it. If we're talking actual ancestry, then you can look up family records, death and birth certificates etc but it is unlikely you'll find any far enough back that might show some relation to your boyfriend. Unless you are Icelandic lol they have a registry and an app now because the population is so recent (1000 years) and was originally so small that everyone is, in fact, related to someone else.
@@rubeniscool The other thing that proves inaccuracy is that every company you send your DNA to will give you different results! That is because 1. they have different databases sampled from different humans; 2. their collected DNA is labeled according geographic locations, which means if they have a sample from an Italian guy, they will label it as Italian, even if the guys ancestors lived in Syria a century ago.
Compare Ramses II reconstruction to a Rockefeller. Compare figures of Babylonian Art to the Romans who followed. And who does Britain/America emulate today? Rothschilds. Windsors. Rockefellers. Hearsts. Rogers. Gates. Too name a few. Who actually runs the world? People see the ultimate bad guys looking like Mr. Burns and The Emperor for a reason ;) They're the Serpent, while their 'good' counter parts are the Eagle. Jacob Rothschild - Serpent Patrick Stewart - Eagle.
I personally find the stories of those amongst the slaves and commoners to be the most precious and insightful. For one, they are more representative of how the majority of people would have lived. But also, for obvious reasons, both written accounts and archeological evidence that tell their stories tend to be much much rarer than those of apparently high status people. I get excited for the rare glimpse into the lifestyle of the peasant or slave.
If I can explain humans in this side of subject, every human that has lived on this Earth is a book, a book containing every right and wrongdoings, every choices, every dreams and nightmares, every friendships and hardships, everything, literally of said person written down in that book from start to end. When a book is opened a life is born, and when closed and put back to its shelf, a life dies and is lost to history. Think of death as a librarian who reads countless books of every individual human life constantly. Wherever death thinks this book is bad, death closes a book with a fate. Currently there are 8 billion books being read, an estinated 100 billion books closed, and countless books ahead, waiting to be opened. Death is reading your book now, and depending on how the book goes, if death isn't satisfied of your story, death may close it abruptly.
Your existential ramble about the lives of our ancestors reminded me of a story my dad told me. To sum it up, I have a great grandfather that died in a housefire with his wife because they boarded up their house because they thought that people were breaking into their house at night and replacing their furniture with the furniture that looked exactly like theirs. On a side note, its 3 am and thank you for getting me through this english project with your soothing voice.
@@LegalpiracyAAARRRRGG oh it 100% is hilarious. Especially combined with the fact that I have ancestors with the last names moody and looney 🤣 I’m doomed
Having experienced something similar in my parents, it's probable that only one of your great-grandparents believed in the break-ins and the other was too co-dependent to do anything about it.
*Don't you worry Mr. Kennewick Man, me and my battalion of Naruto runners will free you from whatever vault they got you stored in at Area 51. Just wait*
As a Native American who also appreciates science I’m genuinely torn on this one, I’m glad he was given a ceremonial burial but also wish we could’ve learned more than we did about him.
I feel it's an easy compromise: If it has direct ancestry (which from what I understood I don't believe it did, it had closer ancestry to another tribe) they get it, if it doesn't science gets it, and never let the government touch anything related to it when they have no business fucking with shit.
@@nine1690 two problems with that line of thinking. 1. Scientists have a pretty strong tendency to classify anything without an extremely good provenance as not having clear enough ancestry for the tribe in question to have access to it. Like a suspiciously ridiculously high tendency. I'm coming more from history/archeology than biology but in the 90s, there was a program passed called NAGPRA with the goal of giving native people a formal method to reclaim artifacts that are theirs in museums, private collections, and educational institutions. Of the 130,000 artifacts that are known, 118,000 were classified by museums as insufficiently traceable back to any specific living tribe and, just to be clear, some of these artifacts can be as recent as the 17 or 1800s and clearly match known artifact styles with clear provenance. It's clear many scientists are skewing the results to keep their collections. I'm all for science but it doesn't need to come at the cost of disrespecting native people's wishes. 2. The government getting involved is basically inevitable. They fund pretty much all of the humanities (including more scientific fields like archeology) and almost all native tribes have to go through them to reclaim any artifacts (including body parts for burials). It's not a great system and NAGPRA has a ton of problems but without it there is borderline no real recourse. Again, it seems like there should be an easy compromise and NAGPRA should have solved it but classifying less than a tenth of known collections (remember, museums tend to have large backrooms with stuff that may not even be categorized at all) as belonging to any known tribe seems like a deliberate massive miscategorization and NAGPRA court cases can take nearly a full decade for fairly simple cases, decades where native American historians (often singular people combing through decades of research alone with almost no funding) need incredibly clear proof to get access and are fought tooth and nail. Seriously, I understand how frustrating it is wanting to know the science but this just isn't a clear cut issue.
If you (or anyone that feels similarly) is still around, in these comments, I have to ask why do you feel torn? I ask because I want to at least try understand what could be of equal or more value than the possible scientific findings, and so far I've found answers unsatisfactory. I guess I'm just looking for anything that has a bit more weight to it.
@@clev7989 I'm probably from a different tribe to the og commenter but what I can say from my traditional teaches is that disturbing the dead is seen as highly disrespectful and dangerous, there isn't a way to describe it other than what would be blasphemy to Christianity. you don't want all the engery attaching itself to you and causing harm to you, your life and loved ones. my major is anthropology so I love learning about this but it's a very fine line to walk on.
@@starrylitsky thank you for being understanding, patient, and informative, I get what you say. I suppose the sticking point for me is my general disregard for what I consider fantastical (which most definitely includes Christianity as well as supernatural native belief). That being said, it now makes more sense from a cultural perspective, if not, in my opinion, an entirely logical one.
If you need an idea for a video, I think it would be worthwhile to cover what was lost in the National Museum of Brazil’s fire. I know a lot of incredibly important fossils were lost, and the damage was both irreversible and devastating to the paleontology field.
20:49 "although he was found hundreds of miles inland, studies show he consumed.... suggesting he was very well traveled." Or, closer to the global maximum in the ice age, the continent was lower in the ocean due to there still being a mile of permafrost on the continent. Kenne probably lived in his grandmother's cave basement and drew cave art all day long.
Wait, but wasn’t the sea level lower, since much of the water was frozen as glaciers, therefore meaning he would’ve been even more well traveled? I know the coastlines were different but they definitely weren’t higher.
@@brianpogue3943 The coastlines were about 120 meters lower globally during the height of the ice age, and this was not during the height of the ice age. In most parts of the country this doesn't translate to much. In this case, it would only move his burial site from 240 to ...250 miles inland. Glacial burdening is certainly a thing, but it's worth noting that this person lived their life after the glaciers had mostly melted away from north america. The ground would be a couple meters lower at most, not dozens or hundreds.
This was actually extremely interesting! I just finished up this semester's biological anthropology class (which I'm majoring in) and we just finished up the chapter on ethics in anthropology- specifically in regards to human remains, kinship, and the concept of race. It's interesting to have this information presented in a way that makes it more human, rather than the cut and dry textbook passages or statements from the AAPA
@@TREYtheExplainer Today I learned the word SONDER: the realization that each random passerby is living a life as vivid and complex as your own. The RU-vid algorithm works in mysterious ways.
Early on in this story the US Army Corps of Engineers (USACE), took it upon themselves to bring in a monstrous and heavy slab of concrete and bury it directly on top of the site of Kennewick Man, crushing and destroying whatever accompanying evidence might have been left undiscovered. This was done as a political move on the part of USACE since they felt they had to maintain good relations with local Native American groups to do much of their work and the Native Americans had already expressed their displeasure over the handling of the "Ancient One."
That... did they ask the Native Americans if they wanted that done? I don't recall hearing about concrete and body destruction as part of any Native rituals...
I seriously think the first three minutes of this video is one of, if not THE greatest intro sequence of any RU-vid video. Thought provoking and feelings of sonder, knowing that we don’t know 99% of our ancestors, or their lives. Every single person that made the parents of our parents and so on. Knowing that every single one of these people lived their lives, loved, hated, fought, cried and died. Ace video.
Honestly, I believe there is a way for both the scientific community and the Native American people to work together on cases such as this. My sister recently passed away and she was half native and half white, so in many ways our cultures clashed. Normally Native Americans bury the body intact and do various ceremonies afterward, however her wish was to be cremated, so we both came to the agreement that she would be cremated with special traditional medicine (cedar, tobacco, ect.) and that her father would be able to do a ceremony while we spread the ashes. This worked out great for all of us and we even participated in the feasts and ceremonies that they had arranged. Maybe the same could be done with modern Anthropologists and the Natives? Perhaps there could be ceremonies and copies made of the bones and returning the originals to rest? I'm sure if each could put both respect and understanding towards each other that this event could have been avoided in the first place.
As a Native American, sure and thank you for being considerate. Yes, most Native Americans today understand that scientific studies can help reconstruct their ancestral origins and prove all ancient remains are Native American. Just a few decades ago, the Establishment had this colonial attitude towards Native America, which is why Natives decades ago didn't trust any establishment media, scientist, etc. However, just like how your family and half sister's family worked out a compromise, both Native American leaders and Scientist are now working together in preparing the ancient remains for studies and later give a proper burial.
I'm a Native American and anthropologist(specifically an archaeologist) and yes. Most of these controversies could have honestly been avoided if proper communication between the native communities and the scientific researchers, sadly though because of the past mistreatment of native artifacts and remains by early archaeologists and the lack of Native Americans in the sciences there is still too much miscommunication which causes all this trouble.
I'm sorry for your loss That's a really good point! People should try to get over differences and work together for mutual benefits more often than what they do
Or the Natives could just get over it. Could you imagine if modern Catholics got this anally devastated because some historians were examining the bones of knights that died in the 900's? It'd be ridiculous. Just like this is. Stop treating the Indians like children.
When you first showed the reconstructed skull I thought it looked Native American, possibly with some lingering Siberian traits, not like it was Picard. Ha.
No matter what Kennewick Man was closest to. What matters now is that all the knowledge we could get from him was lost because of superstition and revanchism. Yes, Native Americans suffered greatly from the settlers, but it does not justify the loss of such a unique opportunity in the history of mankind because of superstition and revanchism. There is a great deal to be done in favor of this people, but to give them ancient fossils so ancient that they would be of entirely different cultures, is ridiculous.
@@quidohmi9286 That's quite a bit more extreme, they're losing nothing while the scientific community stood to gain a LOT, but also yes, I would probably still do that. I imagine being able to erradicate the common cold would be pretty monumental
Disappointing that Kennewick Man was buried without further scientific study. Progress in DNA and other analysis techniques might have told us a great deal about humans in the Americas. I think a major mistake to re-bury him, secretly.
Bill Keck Who says he wont be rediscovered at some point where we have even better tech? It probably makes more sense to think of this as a time capsule rather than a loss.
The way in which Kennewick Man was originally buried 8,000 years ago is what kept his bones from decaying. Due to his recent reburial, it is almost a certainty that he will soon decay as did 99.9% of other paleo natives. Whatever future scientific and technological advances await us, Kennewick Man is forever lost
Jon T Sure they did, for 2015 standards. Who's to say that technology won't advance and better methods become available in the future to study ancient skeletons? Not saying it was right or wrong to rebury the remains, just looking at it from a scientific point of view
Honestly bud, why though? If his descendents don't want or need the findings, then why is it so important? These are real living people that are just trying to respect their ancestor. Some vague idea of general scientific knowledge about the past should never trump the rights and concerns of people living today. That's besides the fact that we have since found remains very similar to Kennewick man related to a tribe that are ok with scientific study.
I will admit that I am not much for anthropology and though I had heard of the Kennewick Man before I never tried to learn any more. However, after watching this video I feel, well I don't know what I feel. A deep sadness and disappointment that I will never know more about the Kennewick Man maybe? Fucking politics, I am crushed. :(
It's rural eastern Washington, where very bad blood has been in the water since the early 1800s. Brits tried to "civilize" the place, native tribes and Metis allies killed them back, later ex-confederates and miners came with the railroad, then east coast settlers turned on Chinese settlers for "stealing" jobs...... I've been to Kennewick and surrounding areas, it's a place where people remember old blood even if they don't know it. If the do know it... I remember some past Halloween there was a guy posting flyers everywhere saying "the Umatilla killed all our settlers".
Not to be a "that guy", but to the best of my knowledge the local tribes didn't much care for us Metis. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pugets_Sound_Agricultural_Company See also: anything on James Sinclair.
Sorry for phrasing it a bit off, the general picture indeed sucks for your Metis folks from Canada to pretty much everywhere else even before the Louis Riel war. I was referring to Kennewick, as there was a sort of infamous case where locals and a Metis man ganged up to murder their British neighbors (Marcus Whitman massacre). Peace and mutual help seems to be too much to ask for most of history, so take care of yourself out there and try to do something better than the past.
@@teslashark Marcus Whitman there's a name I hadn't heard in about 20years in WA stare history class. Coincidentally my younger brothers went to Marcus Whitman Elementary.
I know about him because i saw paintings drawn about his life when I was studying Canadian/Oregon territory history: It's still the matter of very fucked up historical tragedy drama looking at his story, he's like the designated loser of something - moves into place he doesn't understand, fails to cure any patients, his kid drowns, then his neighbors murder the fuck out of his entire family. Not even Cormac Maccarthy can come up with a ride this depressing. To make things even absurd, even worse, couple of years ago the college named after Marcus Whitman got sued by Princeton because they're naming a college after Meg Whitman.
they didn't want to follow the logical path that maybe JUST MAYBE they are not the original owners of the land, in turn violating their literal origin myth as well as their eternal grievance pacts
@@workemail6283 Genocide? Sir that is part of socialist/communist ideology, not ours.
6 лет назад
back in the sixties I read books written by Thor Heyerdahl who built a boat modeled after a model found in an Egyptian grave. it was made of papyrus reeds and traveled from safi on the western coast of Africa to the Canary Islands(?) in spite of being crewed by sailors so inept ancient mariners would have thrown them overboard. I see no real surprise that ancient man might have traveled farther and faster than we thought.
Ra I was not a failure of the crew, but rather some mistakes were made in the construction. Those mistakes were corrected in Ra II and successfully sailed to the Caribbean. Note though, whilst he did prove it was possible, he did not prove that it was done by the ancients.
kleinjahr 😳 Thor Heyerdahl also built a boat he named ‘Kon Tiki’ from balsa wood in Peru and sailed it across the Pacific Ocean, suggesting that early Andean people could have done the same. The book he wrote about his project is well worth reading.
kleinjahr 😳 Thank you for your correction. However, both boats and rafts travel on water. Kon Tiki had a sail and a steering oar, as well as a small cabin for the crew. Have you read the book about this vessel and the voyage across the Pacific Ocean?
Sir Meow The Library Cat yes I have them. As well as his book of essays on ancient seafaring. As for steering Kon Tiki, they did start with a steering oar but found it better to use the dagger boards to steer with.
I'm kind of mad that they reburied him. That precious knowledge lost forever now. I understand where they come from but this was a very rare occasion. Oh well...
@@moonravenstone5368 i mean if thousands of year after now and my bones were found after a catastrophe that lead us back into the dark ages but with guns, my ghost will let every major scientist examine it since it's what our anscestors did, pass on knowledge and the history of our species so the next can benefit from it.
@@magniwalterbutnotwaltermag1479 after our near extermination hearts hardened and we had a huge number of looters digging up our ancestor's and science hides most truth back, most left the ground open left garbage and trashed equipment, professional are called in, big difference.
Trey, have you heard of Tier zoo? It's a really cool you tube channel that explains zoology and natural history as if life were a video game. It would be really cool if you guys did a collab video. By the way, I'm a huge fan of your work.
Me and Tier Zoo have already collaborated! He unfortunately (and disappointingly) didn't credit me within the video that I helped out with and only added me to the description after the video had already been uploaded...so, we've already collabed but most people have no idea thanks man, I'm happy you enjoyed it!
Yeah I don't know if he forgot or something, but I had to kind of ask Tier Zoo if he could credit me for my contributions :( so that was weird. He's a good and nice guy, but it was a little disappointing and maybe a little insulting and I think was a missed opportunity for me to get more exposure. I'm still a little salty about it. I'm sure it was probably just a mistake, but still it hurt a little to watch a video and hear some of the talking points I gave him without me being acknowledged.
This was a really interesting video! It's incredible how rich the history of just a single facet of humanity's past can be. It's clear you take the time to research and approach these topics in a respectful manner. Kudos!
this is the best idea for a series. I can't believe some larger group like the history channel hasn't already done something like this. Yeah, there was one special about Otzi and what his day-to-day life would have been like, but there are HUNDREDS of ancient skeletons. Potentially HUNDREDS of specials! I hope you keep the series up. I can guarantee that I'll watch every single one.
Every single video you apologise for something... stop apologising! You're creating cool, interesting content for us, free of charge, and have no obligation to any of us. There's nothing to apologise for.
Thank you for this video. I'm an anthropology and paleontology student. I am so on the fence with respecting the wishes of the modern Native American community and also furthering scientific research. I wonder if there might be a way to work together to study more while honoring Kennewick man's life and ancestry. Perhaps having a tribal member present for the examinations? Just a thought.... It would be wonderful if scientists could think about living customs while also learning more about ancient people. Great video.
It's sad that we're having to say "have a tribal leader present during the examinations" instead of having anthropologists and other scientists that come from a Native American culture conduct the study of the case and focus on the scientific inquiries they have because Native Americans are so unrepresented in science and it's still mostly white people.
@@ACDBunnie maybe they would prefer to believe in magic and spirituality than to do real science? It's sad that these rubes needed to be there at all, I guess we needed to placate the idiots.
@Crowolfe there’s so many more skeletal remains found throughout Mesoamerica. From Yucatan, Baja California all the way into the tip of South America also labelled ‘paleo-American’. Why does no one ever talk about these lol?
Loved it!!! I studied anthropology and archaeology a million years ago in college, and do my best to read and watch everything I can get my hands on. It's hard to find smart, in-depth presentations of anthro/archaeo topics. Your series is informative, interesting and well presented. Great to watch with morning tea before I head out into the world. I'm a bit addicted to learning and your variety of topics is so much better than the morning news!! Thank you
A relative of mine from way back in the 1700’s was excommunicated from his church for ripping a huge fart during service and honestly that’s all I need to know
I only know of one guy (who may not have even been related and just had the same surname) who fought in the battle of the boing. I'm pretty sure he's not related but it's nice to think about.
When I was in the natural history museum in London I saw someone say to there daughter as they were looking at all the different skulls and the mother said to the daughter about how they were not important and they should move on so I said to them that this people lived lives once and they should be given respect rather than being slurred about and so I appreciate what you were saying.
Dego Raven exactly! I always visit the museum! The human exhibit is the best preserved of the fossils there and probably the most important to the origin of humanity
@@MagentaDystopia yeah but personally as an aspiring palentologist I spend most of my time talking to the staff at the Dinosaur exhibit and occasionally argue about the innacuracies however it's always important to remember about life before my own if it's 100 years ago or 10,000 it's always important.
Monday's insanity My guess is that the children are tasked to go to the museum and to write an essay about their experience there so the kids asked their brain dead parents to take them there.
I like this format very much. I share your sentiment about looking at ancient remains and seeing an individual with their own lives and thoughts. I am glad this man was returned to his closest family in the end. Thanks for posting.
+TREY the Explainer The paleonotolgy officially *Lost* Oxalaia; an another spinosaurid has been lost to fire. There's a fire in the natural history museum of Brazil; so many ancient relics has been *destroyed* Its a truly sad day for entire paleo - community
The introduction is exactly how I feel like when I research about Anthropology and History, just thinking about billions of lives and people, each with their own traits, living and experiencing the world.
Men are haunted by the vastness of eternity. And so we ask ourselves: will our actions echo across the centuries? Will strangers hear our names long after we are gone, and wonder who we were, how bravely we fought, how fiercely we loved? - Odysseus--"Troy"
I just happen to be a resident of kennewick so i learned a bit about this in school seeing as its a local thing. I think its really saddening to see how we couldn’t study the remains more.
I was born there and used to live there but unfortunately I was like, 9 when we moved out and I don't remember much of my past so I didn't really hear much about this guy
That’s something I’ve always thought about whenever I hear a historical event....I always think about how those people where just like me and you, it very bizarre but amazing to think about....and also sometimes heartbreaking depending on the event brought to my attention
Awesome. I am from that area (Wenatchee, just up river) and the story gripped the whole area. Unhappy that more research wasn’t allowed. Such a loss! Fortunately when a cache of Clovis implements was discovered in East Wenatchee in 1987 (found while an orchardist was digging irrigation lines) some research was allowed, castes taken and whatever else the archeologists could manage in the time allowed. My memory of the incident and articles concerning this incident are different, but it seems so similar to the Kennewick man. The area is rich with artifacts and as a child in the 60’s playing in the vast orchards that once covered the valley floor it was not uncommon for one of my school mates to wander in with a point or two as a “show and tell”exhibit. I do wonder what else was lost in that terrible grip of ignorance that we all lived under. I often struggle with issues like these. Respect for others cultures and scientific inquiry. Considering the rise of Creationism and the Flat Earthers I wonder if we will ever outgrow our species predilection for superstition.
Bristleconejones This really isn't about superstition and painting it as that is strawmanning the Native American side. The issue is one of ownership, no one was claiming that the scientific theory of the immigration into the Americas was wrong, they just claimed ownership of the remains, something entirely within their right to do. And it should be mentioned that when the scientific community agreed to compromise the Native Americans allowed study to be conducted, that's how we got the DNA study.
Superstition was not what I was commenting on. Read the whole post, not just the word you find unacceptable. As for “superstition”, my own Baptist upbringing was rife. I find that toxin in every religion. I call superstition just that, “superstition” when “spiritual” beliefs interfere and flatly contradict scientific data.
They actually found relatives of Ötzi in some valleys of Tyrol. So even if you assume kinship "Italians" in the general sense don't have much to do with him.
But they have as much to do with him as the specific tribe mentioned in this video had to do with this man. In fact, a lot of Europeans belong to the same very general human group as Otzi, in the same way the tribe belonged to the same very general human group as the Kennewick man. Not only Italians, but even guys living currently in Norway have a valid claim on Otzi and should be allowed to take him and bury him according to, say, Viking tradition, in we follow the same logic.
@@forrestw.6704 a reference. There's a particular italian man to the left (on Italy, duh), the one that looks like a girl. Some of us who recognize him, but I don't think any of us ever expected to see him in this channel.
Only a year or more late. Love anthropology and the disagreements. I remember when this happened-and the controversy. I still remain torn both ways as to what was done and why. Thanks for this, well done!
The Anal Atheist Was it really for science when when Europeans were busy running around in Egypt digging up graves to fill up their museums in the 19th century? It's not like they actually did much science on their findings since all of their theories about Egypt were completely wrong and mostly it was just for the prestiege of having those things in your museum, it's not even like they were given permission to do this and Egypt is trying to get a lot of these things back. Like I'm not saying that you're wrong I'm just saying that science sometimes gets used as a justification to steal, just like how the credibility and reputation of science has been used to justify other things like eugenics.
I can see both sides perfectly in the debate of Kennewick man, the scientist have a lot of good reasons, mainly the importance it would the study of the skeleton have for understanding ancient Native American populations, but I think people here criticising the natives are being very harsh, given the colonial attitude towards native americans that prevailed until not so long ago ("kill the indian, save the men"), some programs even until the 60's and 70's and in Canada until the 90's even. So I can of understand the posture of these "people come to rob me of my culture and ancestry, because some in the tribe almost certainly still did remember those things happening. I think better cultural mediation could help the understanding between the two groups and a pleasing agreement to both sides could have been reached, in which scientist could have had more times to study the bones, but they would have to promise to return them to the tribe as a show of good will.
I just... I really don't think the tribe had any rights to those bones. Those 9000 year old bones so disconnected from the world we live in today. I understand colonialism very well, but this is just a tragic, frustrating loss of knowledge. So rarely do we get a window into the past, an opportunity to know a part of the story of all of us. 9000 years old. The DNA matches but there is no way to claim the culture of this man, the social and familial ties. No one gets to claim that. But now he's in the ground and his bones will decay to nothing and no one will be better off for it.
I still disagree, with that kind of claim even older bones will be claimed by the Natives and to what extent? I can feel the Native frustration but it's not their right to claim a very old set of bones just because of that. What next? They going to claim ALL the bones in North America? If this logic applied to the rest of the world we no longer able to study all kind of bone and science will be replaced with animistic believe.
GigawingsVideo I know you wish there was something else here in the Americas instead of just Native Americans, and this is just your wishful thinking clouding your logic. Modern Native Americans and ancient ancestral bones of Native Americans are the most studied and well detailed DNA Haplogroups in the world. There has been thousands of DNA studies and every ancient remain matches modern day Native Americans, and not one study yields any evidence of other people being here before the Vikings or Polynesians who both appeared in North America a thousand years ago.
Tbh claiming kinship over a 9000 year old skeleton is probably one of the stupidest things I've heard. Like that skeleton was found randomly, that is literally a gift of human history to study and you're gone re-bury it "ceremonially" when it never even was a part of your history, until it was randomly found? You didn't look for it, it literally has NOTHING to do with ANYONE and everything to do with Anthropology yet some people are just plain idiots.
Spoiler: The top genetics team in Denmark studied the genome of the Kennewick skeleton and found 0 European haplotype markers, while they found 5 of 6 known Native American markers = Native American. That's why physical anthropology is garbage - because phenotype does not = genotype.
You're missing so much information here it's absurd. Phenotype is literally the physical manifestation of the genome. Skull shapes are good predictors of ancestry, and this individual represents someone who is far far closer to the common ancestor of native Americans and Europeans than anyone living today.
@caitlyncarvalho7637 I'm not sure what you mean by "are people regulated by haplotypes?". If you're asking if people who's genetic heritage is from the UK share similar genetics with each other the answer is yes
Man, the scientists' claim is just so much stronger. I can see why the courts decided it the way they did. It's a human tragedy that we still know so little about the life and times of this man.
I like this video, and i find it always very difficult to decide who is right. In this case, it is basically the choice between people that want something for a spiritual choice, and the other side wanting it for scientific reasons. And once i break it down like this, it becomes very easy; science goes first.
Yet, it ended up getting buried... It was a miracle that it was preserved so well after his first burial, I don't think it would go as well after the second... It need to be preserved, damn it!
Lord of the belts: The return of the KING What are you even talking aobut? who said anything about Kennewick man not being native American and is Aryan HERE?
Lord of the belts: The return of the KING Ad hominem, strawman, virtue signaling AND throwing around buzz words. Man, you really have to man up if you want to convince ANYONE.
Except that the ones wanting it for a spiritual reason had nothing to do with this body. This man wasn't part in any way of their tribe, culture, traditions. There was exactly zero reason to hand this body over to them. And to let them conduct a religious ceremony of their own that had nothing to do with this man's own unknown traditions. That's exactly the same thing as handing the mummy of king Tut to the residents of some local Egyptian village so that the pharaoh could receive a proper Muslim burial. It makes strictly no sense whatsoever.
I was expecting to learn about a remarkable new set of human remains the same way I did about Cheddar Man, 3 months before you posted this video. I didn't expect to hear of such a saddening tale. This entire series of events was just sad to listen to. At the very least, SOME scientific knowledge was gathered from Kennewick Man's body and the Native Americans at least managed to gain some dignity in being allowed to rebury him, strengthening and/or repairing relations a little further. Thank you for the informative video all the same, Trey.
Why were they handed over the body of a man who had strictly nothing to do with their tribe, their culture, their tradition? How can this be seen as a good thing in any way? How can conducting a ceremony that has nothing to do with what this man's culture and beliefs mandated be seen as anything else than profoundly disrespectful? Basically they stole the corpse of someone who had nothing to do with them and would have rejected their ceremony if he had been alive for their advantage and to somehow feel good about themselves? How isn't this considered worse and more culturally insensitive than what the scientists did?
Yours is one of the best presentations of the story of Kennewick Man that I have seen. As long as there stands an agreement to repatriate Native American remains, that agreement should be adhered to. The decisions should be based on scientific evidence, as the decision eventually was in this case. It seems to me that a more precise definition of kinship is needed.
There was no need to immediately return the remains. I agree that the will of indigenous people should be respected, but it was clear that this was a rare find, and capable of providing much in the way of further knowledge. Surely, after a period of being allowed to study the speciment, in such a way as to generally preserve it, returning it to the people who claimed ownership would be amenable.
Jacob Monk the government doesn’t listen to normal people why should they listen to native Americans who are impeding scientific discovery in this case. There’s a good argument behind protecting culture, but it’s no longer part of their culture, and hasn’t been for a long time
@@chrissmith3587 I agree, I have just as much of a right to demand Otzi’s corpse. He died within on the same continent that my ancestors came from. Guess he’s mine. After 9,000 years how can they proclaim to have any idea what his wishes would be.
@@TOBAPNW_ The will of indigenous people shouldn't be respected because they had absolutely nothing to do with this man. He had never been part of their tribe, people, ancestry, culture. The ceremony they conducted on him would have been totally foreign to him, made by people with no connection to him.
@@duncanthepharaoh Entirely agree about Otzi. I have every right to stop scientists from desecrating his corpse and bury him in my garden (along with his material possessions) in a ceremony following my current belief system that he would certainly totally approve of because we have genes in common so he totally must have had the same beliefs and traditions as myself. For all we know, the ancestors of this tribe wiped out the descendants of this man. And given human history, if this tribe did survive, it's probably because their ancestors did this kind of things, so it's even pretty likely.
I think that once we've gathered what information we can, he should be returned. That's usually my stance on these things. They don't share European ideas of kinship. His re burial would probably be just as emotional as his first.
If we had done that, most research conducted on human remains by anthropologists, prehistorians, etc...couldn't have been because most modern techniques hadn't been invented when these remains were discovered. So the wide majority of humans remains would be lost to science, we would know much much less about the history of mankind, and in many cases with little hope of a future similar find that would give us a new opportunity to conduct modern research. Besides, even if we were doing that, this man's remains shouldn't have been "returned" to this tribe. He wasn't part of their tribe, ancestry, culture, so he should have been reburied where he had been found and particularly without the extra ceremony that they imposed on the body because of their false beliefs that he must have been part of their culture because, according to their oral tradition, they've been around there "forever." This ceremony was not respectful, it was *disrespectful*, and I would argue, much more so than what the scientists did.
Trey your exposure of the political atmosphere regarding ancient finds is heartbreaking to me. I only was able to begin my formal education after my military service in 1979. Of course then there were children to raise. I am in my 70s now and I have time. I watch everything I can find of your fine work. Thank you for your attention to detail.
