Also in case you don’t know and if you do I’m sorry I’m new to your channel this is the first video I’m seeing of yours but unless it’s a god that’s singing the background vocals have to be in reality example being in the song that broght people to tears “just a man” where the back ground vocals are that of Odysseus men joining him in the question “when does a man become a monster” in this case the multiple women voices are coming from Scylla 7 heads also in case you don’t know Scylla is a giant sea monster women with one human head and 6 hydra/seaserpent heads and the male background vocals are that of Odysseus 42 men witch has now Gone down to 36 and now has dropped to zero it’s sad really he didn’t lose a single person out of the 600 men under his command but in the end he became the monster that put an end to the final 36 with about a hand full being lost to Polyphemus 1 of witch was his best friend polities (rip to a man who always believed that you should “ greet the world with open arms” ) and losing all but 43 of his men to Poseidon and finally losing 1 man who got drunk on top of Circes palace fell of and broke his neck dark I know but Scylla I don’t think eurolucus understands Scylla is a monster that even POSEIDON IS AFFRAID OF Poseidon the same guy who killed all but 43 of there friends and technically it’s his fault not Odysseus slow me to explain if uerelicus never opened the bag they would be home and they never would have to come face to face with Poseidon now while Odysseus gave Polyphemus his name he couldn’t have know he was Poseidons son
LOVEEEEE ur reaction my guy, I loooveeee raw reactions and urs is literally one of the best, hoping to see more reactions from u, even if it isn't from epic but I wish u didnt edit out so much, was looking forward to the full reaction
Trust me the parts I edited out are just me being more quiet and absorbing what’s happening. I left all the best bits in. In the future I might find a way for people to watch a full unedited thing if that’s their forte.
It's good to have the quiet parts left out so people are funneled to the original channel to get the full songs - otherwise, people start to fall into the spiral of "reacting" to the full video of something by just sitting there with their camera in the corner Cutting out dead air also helps keep the reaction full of energy - not every moment is a 10/10 performance, but the moments that stand out are notable for a reason, and I agree, TooAwkwrd does a great job explaining why the songs are spectacular - I look forward to the more in-depth analysis for the songs :)
The things that caught me if guard was the reason for lightning 6 torches and odysseys deaccession and the fact that the rest of the crew did not know what the sirens say as only odyssey was able to read their lips, basically keeping the secret of Scylla being the only way out a secret
No because when it was released I went through expecting the Scylla and Thunderbringer but completely forgot about the parts of Mutiny I saw like two months ago And the ending of Thunder bringer broke me The end of the crew Here we come Telemachus
When Odysseus told Eurylochus to light the torches he was basically trying to kill off Eurylochus. By having him be one of the men holding a torch. Content: I was one of the 50,000 people who watched Jorge's live stream and got to see the animatic they had for Scylla. Eurylochus helped one of the men up and handed that guy his torch. Then after watching another crewmate that had a torch in his hand die he realized that she was going after the men with torches. After that he tried to save the last person with a torch but he was too far away and it was too late. Theory or Assumption: Eurylochus being the one who lit the torches probably handed them out as well. So know that those six men died because of those torches he feels responsible for their deaths. Yes, it might have been Odysseus's plan, but it was Eurylochus who did the dirty work.
As per usual-lol. In the actual Odyssey, Odysseus is the protagonist but not a hero.. he conives and lies and uses wit and guile to get himself out of everything, including sending other people to do his dirty work. I would believe that at this point he had the plan to sacrifice the moment he found out where they would go. But he is so detached at that point he didn't care who the sacrifices were. Also. His second in command had pissed him off a bunch. And his crew with the exception of a few events, were the reason they kept getting into trouble. Although he could have just been honest about everything from the get go instead of trying to keep information to himself-though the crew might still ended up doing stupid shit.
@@moonlightdaisy4672 Weeelll... he is a hero though. Not in the modern sense of course, if that's what you meant. There's plenty of other characters in greek mythology that are so called "heroes" but have done horrible acts, Him using wit through lies or tricking their enemies isn't anything new. Most heroes do that, even Herakles. It was actually seen as a respectable heroic trait when used in moderation (especially if you have to trick a man-eating monster from eating you).
me too Mutiny and Thunder Bringer are my favorite songs in the musical. I was NOT expecting that. The way that it goes into thunder bringer is absolutely genius
Zeus is a monster..but why am I in love with this version of him. It's just so.....horribly amazing hahaha. At the first thunder clap your first thought is like. "Shit." You don't even panic. You're just like..."we fucked up." Also...the way he plays with siren Penelope is so cold. And scylla. I LOVE that song. Amazing.
@@moonlightdaisy4672first of all luke just has an absolutly hypnotic voice, then he plays him exactly right, completely unapologetically pleasure seeking cruel sunning himself in his own glory while claiming jugement and supposed fairnes for himself
For anybody unclear on Eurylochus' motivations, I just want to clear a few misconceptions up: He didn't suggest abandoning their entire crew on Circe's island. It was a small band of scouts and he outright says he wants to preserve the men they have left, assuming the transformed men to be lost. (Which they would have been, if not for divine intervention.) He even tries to confess his wrongdoing in the beginning, but Odysseus is having none of it. Big difference from knowingly offering up men as sacrifices without saying anything. The catalyst for his mutiny is entirely understandable: If Odysseus can let his men be killed in cold blood, then what's saving the rest of them? There can be no loyalty without trust that your leader will keep you safe, and for better or for worse, that's what Eurylochus was trying to do. As for the cattle, while the song itself doesn't make it clear, they didn't land and immediately slaughter a cow for the fun of it. In the Odyssey, they were trapped for over a month and their ship was becalmed (still waters, no wind) so while they fished as much as they possibly could, there was no way for them to get further out. Eurylochus tries to bargain by saying they'll build a temple to Helios once they're back in Ithaca to make up for the offense caused. It doesn't work, but he's not an idiot; he's trying to save the men he dearly cherishes from a slow, painful death of starvation. The entire time, his priority has been toward his crew to a fault. His lack of trust in Odysseus was a definite screw-up and neither of them were right, but in this instance, I have an immense amount of empathy for his attempt to be the voice of reason. Not all of it falls on Odysseus' shoulders, but as captain, commander, and king, his leadership was far from perfect. It's a tragedy, y'all, these are flawed characters making flawed decisions and trying to do what they can in the moment.
Truly feel that The whole thing is so good it's heartwrenching , both are flawed, as all humans are, driven mostly by their care for their crew or the wish to see a loved one again, but I really did care about the friendship they both had, especially since Odysseus had already lost Polites and fast forward now we're here. Tragic and epic indeed
Okay, so I was relistening to Scylla and Mutiny on Spotify, and something that barely even registered but now looking back on it is amazing because the last time they manage their “Full Speed Ahead” motif cohesively was before Odysseus sacrificed six of his men, but after they start trying to row away from the island after killing the cow It's like the men are trying to perform the "Full Speed Ahead" motif, but unlike before when they were all together, now it's completely disorganized and frantic, especially with Odysseus yelling "FASTER" really sounding like he was just screaming at them instead of giving orders in the background. Gives me the vibe of them no longer obeying him from respect, but pure panic, hence while they're all disorganized and everything feels incredibly off rhythm. I also like the detail that Eurylocus has always been backed up by the crew, but even now in Mutiny when he led the crew to overthrow Odysseus, sure they stabbed him and knocked him out, but the second the stakes were raised, they immediately fell into line desperately trying to follow Odysseus with Eurylocus not even fighting because even after they rose their Mutiny, he was still their “Captain” not Eurylocus!
So i think part of the reason song 21 and 22 is because it is specifically unique to epic. Also the fan base is so observant if he played any part of suffering. They would have noticed Penelope motifs was off
I mean the sirens are in the Odyssey, it's just very different, but the whole story kinda is. Anyways, they come across the sirens and Odysseus is very curious to hear what they sound like, but understandably don't wanna die, so he covers the crew's ear with beeswax and ties himself to a mast, with the instruction that they should not free him until they truly pass them. And them they just do it, I guess Also the sirens are part bird instead of fish. But I think you're absolute right about Pen's motif
Eurylochus at Odysseus: How dare you sacrifice 6 of our friends! You don't deserve to be our leader! Also Eurylochus, literally the same day: You know, pissing off the sun god sounds like a great way for all of us to die
@@Rough_policeman762 Are there no fish in the sea? Or literally else on the island? Killing the cows wasn't because they were starving. It was because they felt hopeless. Which is understandable but NOT excusable; hope is something you can only give to yourself. Once you give up, it's over.
@@blueteller i always though that poseidon would gatekeep the fish out of pettiness....but yeah they totally gave up on going home but not on dying though
@@mateusneves589 Except they didn't need to die at all. The rest of them could have still made it home if they did not give up. Don't get me wrong: Odysseus messed up. Not because he made a necessary sacrifice to move forward (every other Greek king under the sun would have done the same without remorse); but because he did not try to prevent casualties, treating them as inevitable, thus losing his entire crew's trust. Even if he attempted a half-hearted scheme to fool Scylla, and it was to fail, it would have been better if he at least tried - and because he did not, his crew gave up on trying a well. Odyssues was set on the "ruthless way", convinced it would solve all his problems... He forgot the part of leadership that depends on the loyalty of his men. So it was a tragedy of errors on all sides: the men not trusting Odysseus, and Odysseus forgetting to take care of the bonds that gave him power in the first place. There is no leader without followers, and without a leader to follow, the followers get lost.
bars at the fact Eurylochus was probably feeling those deaths of men more than Odysseus does, the fact that six men affected him so much, out of an entire massacre, those last six men was what broke the camel's back. also he did cause the storm bringing them to Poseidon's lair, so yeah Eurylochus has that guilt on his shoulders
Also in the animation of the livestream he was one of the people holding torches, he pass it to someone who fell down and helped up because he plan to save someone else. Then he realized the torch holders were bait, he rushed to the person he gave the torch but got eaten as well.
He is the one who lit all torches and sent them out. He even gave his own torch out to someone prior to knowing the torches are the problem. In a sense, he’s the reason those 6 are dead now.
I think the main reason that Suffering has so much exposition is because it's the Act opener. It's fairly typical for musicals and plays to come back from intermission with a short timeskip and some exposition/recap to cue the audience back into the world.
I was referring to different beast. Suffering I think is perfection 👌 Him essentially explaining how he tricked the sirens and why he led them on. I felt that could’ve been done differently. Minor gripe but I still love the song.
@@tooawkwrd Hah, I actually was kinda referring to that too, I just forgot for a moment they were seperate songs since they lead directly into each other. I understand why it was done still, being the SECOND act-opener, and most of what Odysseus describes happens BETWEEN the first and second act, up until “You pretended to be my wife and I just played along” I do definitely agree it could have been done more similarly to how it’s been done before. The Thunder Saga is excellent musically, though I do find it struggles to strike the balance of understandability VS exposition like the other sagas do. Different Beast is a bit exposition-y, while it’s kinda hard to tell what’s going on in Scylla and the middle transition of Mutiny None of this makes me love it any less though, I basically live and breathe Epic: The Musical right now! Edit: and yes, Suffering is perfection for SURE. Contender for my favorite EPIC song right now.
Bro i didn't expect the combo of your charisma + insight + the jamming and incoherent screaming of a true epic fan and to top it all a ffxv reference + the sword + the beard???? Like damn are you real i am a super fan now
Thunder saga is so much more depressing than the others, even more than the underworld saga. It’s like a transition from mostly upbeat and hype songs and sagas, to a song that can make someone cry in a millisecond, from wars and action n shit to straight up tragedy
The way you Know Your Shit about the details of the mythology behind the musical & have a fun time reacting to it, that was such a good time. Subscribing, you're a great channel
Part of me thinks Jay kept 21 and 22 secret because he realized he just hadn't teased them yet, and at this point, it was more fun to be really cagey about them. I also think if you know the odyssey decently well, you could probably guess it had something to do with Sirens because the encounter with Sirens, Scylla, and Zeus are all very sequential in the og text(though they're also pretty different from what I recall, but Epic is an Odyssey Inspired musical and does not claim to be an accurate adaptation of Homer's Text.)
I just realized that the “over explaining” part of Different Beast might be super accidentally genius. You know in Phineas and Ferb when Doofenshimrtz tells Perry his evil plans before doing them? This is exactly that but in reversed. He does it to show his now more “getting his hands dirty” actions but also he does it AFTER tricking to show he is smarter then a villain, who would normally monologue BEFOREHAND, Odysseus getting it done first and explaining later and being overall more of an effective warrior. Maybe I’m overanalyzing or maybe Jorge’s a genius, who knows (Both probably).
14:37 funny enough I interpreted this completely different. I thought Eurylochus was telling Odysseus they should just stay here and give up on getting back home. And since he was so hungry he was willing to take the risk of the cattle actually being important to the sun god (Helios) or not. But honestly I’ve seen a lot of people saying the “he just wanted to die” so I might’ve heard this song completely wrong. 💀💀
Anyone else want an Iliad or Epic of Gilgamesh from Jorge. Like there could be Epic: Odysseus, Epic: Achilles and Epic: Gilgamesh. Also, the Iliad would give Epic: Odysseus some background of why they were in the horse to begin with. Idk, it just seems right to have a musical called Epic contain something about Gilgamesh, since the Epic of Gilgamesh is the oldest known story in history.
Aw yes, the renowned philosopher Awcrates, I have a desperate need for his wise breakdown of all the songs lol. This video was so fun!! Definitely gonna check out the rest of your video's!
i reccomend watching the live stream (people have reposted it) because in the text jay adds in the video theres extra details along with in the animatics. like in scylla, eury was holding a torch but gave it to someone else and in mutiny, when they get to the island, ody wakes up tied TO the statue of helios
If I put aside my childhood obsession with Greek mythology and especially Odysseus... this just plays on every cell in my heart and whole body. Whole Epic does that
I know it might be long but maybe have both versions of troy and cyclops because there really are significant differences. Added bits to storytelling and different performances. I'm not sure. But overall, love this video.
I just love this saga so much, all of the motifs are just *mwah*, and just to point out a few things: 5:23 In the animation Jorge commissioned AnniFlamma for, for the livestream showing this off, that's exactly what he did. He flew up from the deck of the ship high into the air, and unleashed a bolt that destroyed the ship. 6:43 In addition to the weird voices, the percussion kind of sounds like snake hisses, like another clue that the women are actually sirens. 8:27 I 100% disagree honestly, this is very important to include, because it highlights Odysseus' arrogance. They haven't killed all of them yet, but by monologue he lets his hubris show through because they could be killing the sirens right now. Instead, he lets the threat live just to explain his ✨ brilliance ✨ 10:23 In the background of Scylla, you can hear six screams for the six men who died 13:44 Just a bit of detail, the man who stabbed him was Perimedes, and he stabbed him in the gut from behind. 15:56 On the other hand, during puppeteer, Eurylochus was completely willing (and actually wanted) to abandon their crew with Circe and just escape with Odysseus.
Considering that this is someone's interpretation of Odysseus's story, I will talk about the mistakes that everyone made in this version of the story, that led us to this situation. The first mistake Odysseus made, he took Polites with him to scout the first island, and this is a mistake because if he had taken anyone else they would have scouted the island more carefully and cautiously, and would not have let their guard down, and opened their arms to the world, on an unknown island like with Polites, and they would probably avoid the Cyclops, or if they found a cave they would scout it first and make sure they could get something out of it safely. Now, since they entered the cave unprepared and shot the first thing that moved instead of being more cautious, Cyclops now had an excuse to attack them. The next mistake was made by Athena, because she couldn't read how Odysseus felt and decided to criticize Odysseus for not killing his enemy, while Odysseus wanted the Cyclops to suffer for what he did to his crew and childhood friend, and decided "in anger" to double down on this, how the man punished the giant monster, and says which man when he was at a safe distance. Also people forget that when they read the story of Odysseus, Odysseus didn't know who the Cyclops parents were, it's not a common knowledge that everyone knows for some reason, but as readers we forget that Odysseus doesn't know that the Cyclops is the son of Poseidon, so Cyclops finding out his name shouldn't be a problem in Odysseus's eyes at that moment, and Athena didn't have to tell him to kill the Cyclops, because the Cyclops was blind and thought Odysseus was called "NOBODY" so he couldn't appeal to anyone for help. The next mistake was made by the crew, because if Eurylochus had not raised doubts about Odysseus's leadership, they might have had better luck, but Odysseus encountered the Wind God, and she offered a free ticket to Odysseus to stop the winds for him, to return home more peacefully (him and more than 500 people crew), and all they had to do was not open the bag of winds, and take the word of the captain who told them what was in the bag, but they wouldn't listen and trust their captain and King, so Eurylochus of all people decided to open the bag, with the crew he as the leader and screwed everything up, and they were within reach of their home but no, they were pushed to the furious Poseidon. The next mistake is on Odysseus, because instead of apologizing he gives an excuse, because he thinks his crew was attacked for no reason, and they were just defending themselves, talking to Poseidon as if he was talking to Athena, because she would be fairer in this situation "probably" because they know each other, and Odysseus is used to talking to her like this, and that's where he screwed up and barely escaped with 43 men on board. After the monster song Odysseus decided to turn off his emotions, and do whatever it takes to get home, which included those 6 crew casualties, but what happens, the crew riots and knocks out their captain (King), and they are on the island of Apollo, and the crew that warned Odysseus not to take risks with the Gods, they decide to kill the animals belonging to one of the Gods, thinking that nothing will happen. Now Zeus shows up for some reason instead of Apollo, he decides to give Odysseus a choice, to save himself, or sacrifice himself for the crew that betrayed him 2 times.... I would sacrifice them if I were Odysseus. Let's not forget that Eurylochus of all people was forcing Odysseus to leave the people that Circe turned into pigs, to go with the people they had left and try to get home, and now Eurylochus has a problem with sacrificing 6 men, when he was ready to leave who knows how many of them on that last island. In my opinion Odysseus cares more about his men, not just because he is only their captain, but also there King, and he constantly tries to avoid paying with the lives of his men, or his own at every stop, and Odysseus has the need to leave his enemies in suffering, the enemies who killed any of his men, he left Cyclops blind to suffer because of his unjustifiable brutality and no mercy, but Athena decided at the wrong time to criticize Odysseus who was very emotional, which led him into trouble with Poseidon. After the Monster song, Odysseus said he would do anything to get himself and get as many of his men home safely as possible. When Odysseus read the lips of the Sirens, and found out which monster he would meet on a safer path out of Poseidon's reach, he knew that there would be a sacrifice needed (during the first song, and while they were killing the Sirens, the first two songs Odysseus and the whole crew are deaf, because they have wax in their ears, so they can't hear the Sirens sing, and that's why the crew doesn't know when Odysseus said out loud that Scylla has a cost), and he was ready to make that sacrifice with some of his men, and save the majority, but Eurylochus suddenly can't stand this, even after a moment ago, everyone was shouting in unison that they were now monsters, and he is angry that his captain and above all else his King decided to make a difficult decision for the benefit of the majority, but they decide to make a mutiny, and screw everything up, because suddenly they find it hard to accept the difficult decisions of their King. They were on their way home, and decided to deny the possibility of coming home, because they couldn't resist hunger when they could before. Odysseus's decision is justified in the end, because that betrayal with the bag of winds, and now this one, it's enough for Odysseus to choose himself, although it is difficult for him to make that decision, than it would be difficult for me to be honest, because I would have chosen myself after everything that happened very easy.
1 thing I noticed was that Scylla's early dialogue before she starts singing sounds like its talking about Eurlycas (can't spell his name) since his reveal happens in the stages Scylla is describing, only for her really to be talking about what Odyssey was about to do. I'm no musician so I can't tell you how thats significant from that direction but I am a writer and thats masterful work right there.
Genius lyrics showed the two secret titles like either the day before or two days before. It happened when i refreshed the page, and then it would go away. 🤷♀️
Ngl I posted this in the comments of thunder bringer but I wanted to share this I'd like to think this is what happens while Zeus is singing after Ody says "I know" Odysseus, no longer able to decide whether or not he should be selfish and save himself to see his wife and son or be selfless and save his crew (a crew he knows that betrayed him but still sees as brothers), falls to his knees. Tears beginning to fall as Odysseus falls into deep spiral of despair and is mentally broken once again. Eurylochus seeing his friend, his brother, from up till now was a cunning and wise captain and king, to now a man at his wits end and is falling further more into despair. Seeing how desperate Odysseus is to see his wife and child, more desperate than any other man on the ship they are on, seeing how much despair the weight of a decision Odysseus has to make on which life should be sacrificed. Eurylochus decides to take that burden off his brothers shoulders. Whether it be due to the guilt he has for what he did or the fact that he no longer wants to see Odysseus suffer any longer, Eurylochus brings Odysseus to his feet. Placing his hands on his brothers shoulders he says to Odysseus: "Ody...I know how much you miss your family and I know how desperate you are to see your home...and I understand you did what you had to do to ensure we get back home to Ithaca again...and I know you must be going through so much suffering....and I'm sorry... I'm sorry that I'm reason we're in this mess and i'm sorry that I opened the wind bag, loosing are chances to get home...So let me take the suffering from you, let me and the crew atone for what we have done" Eurylochus then turns to the crew, nodding at them and the crew knowing what they must do. Eurylochus then turns towards Zeus nodding his head, Zeus understanding what Eurylochus wishes to have done. Eurylochus then turns around looking at Odysseus. Odysseus realizing what's about to happen, tries to think of a way to bargain to Zeus, to find a way where everyone survives. But before he could say anything to the Thunder God, Eurylochus calls out to him. "Ody, I'll make sure to tell Polites of everything that has happened... hopefully he doesn't get mad at me for my stupidity haha...I hope we see each other again, and makes sure to tell us rest of how your journey back home to Ithaca goes... Oh and Ody, promise me you'll make it home alive brother...no matter what" Before Odysseus can say a word, a giant lightning bolt strikes down the ship destroying it Leaving no one but Odysseus to survive as he drifts down into the ocean Again this what I'd like to believe happened and that Eurylochus understood why Odysseus did what he did and choose to atone for what he and the crew did. But then again this is all in my head cannon XD
It’s weird the way I interpreted eurylochas in mutiny sounded like he was hoping that Odysseus would lie to him to save him and the crew from the truth even though it’s pretty undeniable the sacrifices were part of the plan
I’ve seen at least one take that was like “eurylochus deserved to die I don’t feel bad for him at all” and like…that’s the wrong take guys. Was eurylochus wrong in a lot of ways? Yeah, but so is Odysseus that’s kind of the point….eurylochus made mistakes, so did Odysseus. And it isn’t like eurylochus and the crew’s death in Thunder Bringer is triumphant. If anything it’s madly depressing, ody is losing the last of his friends (for his own selfish needs I may add) even if they did commit a sin against the gods. The only person triumphant in Thunder Bringer is Zeus. I just think the “eurylochus deserved it” take is missing the point of the story, you know?
