A very refreshing and honest accounting from someone that can obviously afford the boat they’ve chosen. Most people wouldn’t be so forthcoming about the financial side of owning such a large boat. Thank you James and Filipa for your candor and good humor, you seem like really nice folks.
at that point it doesnt matter if the boat costs 1 million or 2 million. But it does sometimes help people who are after second hand or older yachts make a decision.
I would love a boat with standing headroom and I bet they don't know what bucket and Chuck it means, salt water natures disinfectant My well equipped Elizabethan 23 cost me 4 thousand pounds 20 years ago sails like a 5 knot OCC 6 dream I'm not envious at all but good information in case I win the lottery. PS nice people.
Sardinia Corsica fuel ! Yep … everything is expensive there. I found eating ashore cripplingly expensive too and I’m not poor ! 😂 I agree with other comments here … James and Philipa have been very candid here ! (Extremely useful for those of us who are returning to sailing after a 20 year break !) What a lovely couple… best wishes.
One of the best, if not the best, sailing videos I have seen. Informative, interesting, down to earth and honest, brilliant. A must see for any one wishing to do this lifestyle. The numbers might be scary but you can equate them to any size of yacht. Fantastic job.
WOW! This is an eye opener. A boat priced at USD500,000 actually costs USD924,000 unless you are ready to live a spartan life after investing half a million! So Bavaria follows the "`BMW trick". Starting price is Toyota but when you equip it to Toyota level, you pay at least 50% more, though all due respect Bavaria is not the BMW of the boats... And actually here the mark-up is more than 50%...
This is S/Y Rain Finger, admiring your methodology. We circumnavigated in the 1980s. This trip we bought a used boat, hired subcontractors that we supervised, fitting out this boat (Bristol 35.5 with electric drive). In the Covid era there is a lot of talent, looking for work. You guys did a great job on your boat, and learned there is no substitute for experience when going to sea.
...... very interesting .... two upgrades that come to mind that, to me the non boat owner yet, stuck out, actually three, larger engine (so often when looking at used one questions if the motor would be adequate in a dire situation) electronics having the latest is paramount and thirdly refrigeration and found it interesting that they had an additional Dometic chest freezer in one of the aft cabins. Being able to stock up when you find economical supplies, stellar. Also enables to stay out longer without having to find somewhere to provision and that brings 4 the watermaker .... oh yes something not mentioned, a sextant, so to be always learning, so not lost when that solar flare comes or that lighting strike .... another great Sophie and Ryan installment, thx to the both of you .. as always never stop dreaming, just dream bigger .. have fun be safe, save our oceans .....
Guys, thanks, this is one of the best videos out there. The honest experience, the value of lessons you learned and sharing with the rest of us for free cannot be appreciated enough. I especially like the part about all the nav gear, radar, lights... one would call it a luxury features, but in fact these are all safety features and from my point of view essentials, IF(!) someone plan to sail that much, crossing the oceans, spending months and months on the boat. I always thought these could be expensive, but that it will double the cost of the boat is an eye-opener.
Big thanks to James and Philipa for their very candid informational video! Sharing Aequis with all of us, your buying process, the good , bad and cautions that you’ve learned throughout the past two years. Love Aequis, she looks absolutely beautiful!! Thanks so much for sharing and Sophie, great job as always!!
I’m building a cat in Asia, but I plan to live near the builder’s boatyard for a year after it’s built and sail it there to get all the bugs out while living nearby. I’ve owned enough boats to know how it works. My builder is totally open to that, and will make adjustments/repairs as necessary. But I will be retired at that point, so can spend the time there. I wouldn’t buy a boat expecting to sail away. Even used. Spend some time near good mechanics and yards until the kinks are worked out.
One of the best and most direct cost to real ownership videos I have ever seen. Helped me and my family a lot. I hope you have continued success. Thanks!
Had a Beneteau 432.....as with All new boats we have issues. Lost 10 lbs during the commissioning. It was also 3 weeks late. Our boat show purchase had a few good options included to help with sales including most of the instrumentation we needed. Of course we added lots more. In the small print they are allowed to make cosmetic changes. Found out through our owners group they were removing some internal teak. I was able to have some installed but no all. Made me sign a nondisclosure agreement that I would no tell others of our agreement. Opps.....love the boat but they can be a pain to purchase. If you buy a used boat you may not get exactly what you wanted but if a survey is done properly at lease you know what your getting.
Thanks to all on this video, seriously a full understanding of the cost and the resources needed from someone that can afford this life style. The one thing I have noticed on all sailing channels, is the endless maintenance issues. Clearly, James and Philipa have significant wealth to pull this off without much concern.
Insurance has to be the most annoying costs, that you never need till you don't have it. But any place that has had huge write off costs associated with weather you see huge premiums. Very insightful video guys!
A big thank you for the candid information from your friends. Just to complete information on the other side of possibilities, I have bought a new boat from Bénéteau, an Oceanis 31 in 2018: basic cost was 78'000 Euros , options kept to a minimum but including transport was 19'000 Euros and the local preparation cost was 6000.- Total just over 100'000 eur or some 125'000 US$. I then added some improvements as a gennaker, solar pannel and some more instruments for some 5000 euros. A 31 footer is probably the minimum size to sail away, but I am not in this case, I sail on a lake in in the middle of Europe and my boat is 15 minutes away from my home. I paid 30% in advance, the big chunk before delivery and the last preparation cost to the dealer after a local check up sail. Very few hicups as the model is not a new one, it was in fact replaced two years later. All was basically taken care of by the dealer under warranty. I follow you Sophie and Ryan because of the brand of the boat and the technical advice you bring to the table, well... and also because of Sophie's smile....
Get a cockpit refrigerator for beer. A water maker will keep me out of marinas. I probably don’t need underwater lights. Consider a used boat. Hold back some final payment until all problems are fixed. Stay close and sail often until all systems are well tested. In the Mediterranean budget for lots of fuel and/or get a good light air sail. In the Caribbean budget for Insurance and air conditioning. Get a Dive Compressor. 😃 Mo Money Mo Problems.
Join the Royal Navy at 17 and obtain Mariner's skills and qualifications. Retire 10 years later, work for 10 years on luxury vessels cleaning and sailing for billionaires and their escorts, then with savings, buy a decent second hand yacht and follow Mr English Coach Chad's list of suggestions. Keep in mind that something like a Bavaria yacht costs the same as a Mortgage within the edges of the M25. Good luck. And oh yes, open a RU-vid channel and produce content. All the best. (This upload gets a thumbs up from me).
Great video. I have been lucky enough to buy 2 new boats in the last 6 years - I agree with the comment - stay close to the dealer for the first 12 months! They don’t work out of the box like a car. The thing that surprised me most was that there is no safety kit included - no flares, life raft, beacon, heaving lines, jack stay etc. I appreciate that most people want to spec their own but a basic kit would have been good.
Hi Chris, the total price does include all the safety gear we have on board such as off shore life raft, EPIRB, life jackets, flares etc... But you are right that they are not included in the bareboat price!
I love the transparency of these guys. I’ve heard the hidden cost and breakdown costs of new boats before. It seems like the way to go is buy a strong 20 year old hull and replace everything, including the engine… then stay local and try to break stuff for a while.
That would seem to be the clever alternative, but it has a lot to do with the grass always being greener on the other side of the fence. If you like old heavy hulls you might save a large amount getting a good price. The second part of your plan is a complete bust! Everything you refit to an old boat costs far more, has more quality problems, and loses more than half its resale value the second you install it! Find some fool that did everything you want but now needs to sell... This couple did a fine job putting together a fine boat. If you think $1M is not a good deal, talk to a guy that paid that much or more for a divorce...
@@skyak4493 in the early 1990s manufacturers learned to lay fiberglass in temperature controlled environments. Strength and longevity is based on hull thickness. The lightweight sandwiched hulls some manufacturers today are making haven’t been tested through time and do not survive impacts. Sailboats have ballasted keels… lightweight doesn’t mean much. Also, when you buy a new boat it does not come with the things you would expect. Most of it is aftermarket installed by a local technician during the commissioning process. People have an idea in their heads that a new boat is better and more reliable… not true. Save $500,000 get a used hull and replace everything… engine, instruments, heater, air conditioner, batteries, solar, windless, mast, sails, everything…. A hull is just a design and a platform to install everything you need.
Very nice couple and extremely nice of them to be so forthcoming about their experience and costs. Many RU-vid channels are exposing many facets of production boat mfg's shortfalls. A list of (or at least examples of) what a was not correct would be somewhat useful. I have now lived on my "new to me" 1991 Pacific Seacraft 37' for 1 1/2 years and have sailed it a couple thousand miles. Like many folks my departure timeline for cruising was delayed due COVID, with the upside being that am still realizing what I want to upgrade while still based out of my home port. Great video.
Thank you for making this video and to James and Philips for sharing their costs, great insight into the true costs of new boat ownership. I knew parts of the Med are very pricey but you really put some detail to that. Bavaria really ought to include the cockpit fridge as standard. Cheers
These owners were right on point I bought a Jeanneau 519 new and found the process to be painful. I reluctantly upgraded to my currently Jeanneau 58 also new. While we love our 58 it too was painful working through all the items not just right. I like your guests have owned ours for going four seasons and have finally worked through all the corrective items but now I’m beginning into the normal maintenance items coming up . I too liked that I bought new but I think if you know what your doing you can find a well fitted resale boat too. I will say my Jeanneau came with many more of those items standard vs optional. 6 power winches, 4 heads, 5 ac units and many other items. So when you buy new you must throw a wide net.
Congrats on your boat and thanks for your insight. Did your warranty cover a lot of the issues? That feels like one benefit of buying new vs used. Thanks in advance!
Sophie: Another great video. Key takeaway: Have the boat thoroughly tested before sailing away. There are good 3rd party companies next to the Hanse plant in Germany that do inspections and sea trials for the dealers before delivery to customers. I'm sure the same applies to Bavaria. The premise that its easier to resolve issues on a new boat when next to the plant. Greifswald, Germany has very good aftermarket companies to do the work that was not on the factory offering list, and they also provide the warranty repair work for Hanse. I got a lot from this video - thanks again. Dave.
Hi Ryan & Sophie, 2 times a day I am driving on the boulevard from Bonaire. And always looking to that beautiful boat of yours on the mooring. Enjoy our beautiful island and the Caribbean .
What a beautiful boat ! That is probably the widest interior I've seen in a sailboat. I am weighing my options for a new vs used catamaran or restoring a racing/cruising trimaran so I can relate to this video.
James and Philipa thank you for sharing. This is the first video covering the realities of a new sailboat from the buyer perspective I've seen! Very informative. Kinda wished you would have offered up a few of the flaws you found, but "beggars can't be choosers. I learned a lot! Thanks!!
I don't think you title this video right -no beggars, just choosers... I think it would be "millionaires should not be complainers". They did fine. That is just what it costs.
Thank you for the amazing graciousness of sharing your experience as relatively inexperienced owners of a brand new yacht and model. It is incredibly important that potential again, relatively inexperienced prospective buyers of these incredibly complex and exceptional machines understand the TOTAL COSTS of acquisition and "growing pains" they and their vessels will undergo during the first 14 - 26 months of ownership. I couldn't help thinking while watching that viewing this video should BE REQUIRED of all purchasers of new model ocean-going vessels.
Just like the other comments, Very helpful and I agree there is a lot to be said for buying a second hand boat. If anything just the added stuff they bought and are including in the sell of it. simple stuff like Oil, Wd40, wench handles, cushions, tender and motor etc. etc. etc. Thanks so much for the video
Thank you all for this. I've saved my money and I have this rosy picture of buying a new boat and sailing off into the sunset... but a new boat having as many problems as a used boat? That's really good to know, for two reasons. First, if I do get that new boat I won't feel screwed and second, that makes me less worried about buying a used boat. First bubble burst: all the wonderful options . . .+30%? Nope + 100%. Whew! now I won't get whiplash. The whole sail boat industry owes cruiser channels like yours a huge debt.
No wonder Bavaria came out of bankruptcy right after these guys:-) Very well specified boat! We had similar problems with another manufacturer when we bought our new boat. After 2 years it became a good boat
How Filippa and James can afford this boat is none of my business. Their reasons for buying this boat is none of my business. My interest is in appreciating their lifestyle, the home they live in, and the fact they can go, literally, anywhere the water is deep enough to float their boat, And, btw, I also deeply admire Sophie and Ryan for what they have done. Yeah! :¬) Webhead USA
What a great interview and very frank... loved it! Yes! Now where's my lottery ticket! Nice boat, and for the size, not too expensive considering the specification you now have. You seem to be enjoying it but the Caribbean insurance costs are prohibitive. Great video Ryan and Sophie. It would have been nice to check out the sailing abilities of the Bavaria. Any issues with haul out on a boat that size?
Filippa and James, thank you for taking the time to make this candid video. I had no idea how the new boat world works. Do you guys have any regrets not buying a used catamaran? From my living room those fly bridge Lagoons look like the hot ticket. James, your 20 year old Rolex GMT Master II has gone up in value 5x. It would be nice if boats did the same.
Don't understand all the negative comments... this video was so insightful! Thank you!!! I have been thinking at length about buying a Bavaria C57, with many of the same features, so this has certainly opened my eyes! Will definitely be following their page too for more information!
Wow and another ship I know, the drilling vessel in the background is a sistership in the company I now work in. You guys see so much that I recognize. It makes watching your channel a surpise every time. I hope you have many safe miles and adventures ahead. Living the dream with all challenges that come with it.
Great video with realistic and well found advice to future sailboat owners. Stuff happens on all sailboats but having a new boat under warranty is better or a very well maintained one owner boat can work too. I was very fortunate to have a exceptional Beneteau dealer who made my experience in boat ownership a dream compared to others I heard about. It's all about service after the sale satisfying the new owners punch list of boat equipment needing adjustments (all boats have them)..that's why I purchased my Beneteau 40 after getting great service on my original Beneteau 361 10 years before.
I have gone through 11 new boat builds of various size ... they have all had minor problems but all have been resolved at no additional cost. One was rather costly for the builder and the repair took place in the Bahamas, the builder is in the northeastern US. They flew a tech down to make the repairs, all he needed do was adjust one screw ... that is the builder you want.
Great video guys! Keep living the dream! As you know we discovered a lot of initial problems too at the beginning, but like you, our boat is now finally almost perfect. My next expense will probably be solar panels too...... we plan on cruising up north (to where the butter melts) at the end of April..... cruise the east coast of Australia with no rushing this time. Stay safe. 🥂
I've seen James and Phillipa on other channels plus urs. I'm waiting for Phillipa to start putting out videos like she said she wanted too. James and Phillipa are and would love to start following them. Ive already subscribed to there channel like 3 weeks ago but no video from them yet. I love u Ryan and sophie and have been following u guys for a long time. Thank you for ur awesome videos! Good luck to James and Phillipa! Chuck from Chatham, Massachusetts
Actually the large Hard Aircraft Hold type Wheeled Suitcases are Really useful on a boat. .pad them inside (towels etc) and they're really good for keeping delicate electronics spares in, for example, if you have the room. Plus of course Yiu can get Waterproof ones that Float, abd they can be used as Wheeked Shopping Bags to easily transport purchases when provisioning, and if you miss the Dinghy, they can float or be towed back slowly to the boat ? On my last boat, one was brilliant for organising stuff in the V Berth Forward Storage. A Hard Cabin Flight Bag can be a great organiser for under Berth Storage too. Most of the stuff the US Coastguard Wanted to see, when they asked me to invite them aboard (great people by the way, they really impressed me) was in one Convenisntly under the Pilot Berth next to the Companionway. They did ask me why I had put the USA Purchased Flare gun out of sight and a bit out of Reach, and they were Shocked to Learn that for such an important Safety item, in the UK you had to get a Firearms Licence to get one, and I was heading for the BVI , and not sure how it would be considered (Maybe there not as Barking Mad as the UK? Still to find that out). We need a Coastguard Service as good as the USA one imho. If a youngster, I'd seriously onside going to the USA to join the USCG. 👍
Thanks for the openness and transparency of this video. Maybe worth elaborating on the lifestyle choices leading to the costs in the Med. $20,000 for marina costs is expensive- did you move around a lot and therefore pay higher daily rates or have a fixed space in a nice marina ? And $11000 for fuel works out roughly at 11 500l tanks at $2 per liter. Even at 10l/hour fairly high rpm motoring, that’s well over 500 hours engine use. Absolutely no judgement here but moving on frequently or on a schedule can increase the cost compared to seeing where the wind takes you.
Same here, I would put the money to work in the stock market and use the dividends to pay for the luxury boat rental, complete with a personal chef and captain.
Got to agree with James! Bavaria UK does not actually exist. Clipper Marine the UK distributor is as about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. Bavaria GMBh dont answer their emails, push everything back to the UK distributor and if you take legal action they (Clipper) have no assets. The boats on their books are owned by the banks (check companies house) Our list of issues were quite long and after 2 years of battling Clipper, Getting Bavaria to do something and even complaining to the British Marine Industries Federation over their (Clippers) 17 breaches of the code of conduct we got us nowhere. We had to do all the retro work ourselves. (which was probably better) The bill just for just putting their work right was £12,783.00 and £6,740 in Legal fees to pursue them. That's a bitter pill to swallow on the start of a sail away dream!! But it goes on... The extra we paid for the upgraded seating? 5 Years on? It all is having to be replaced. Cost £800.00. Copper coat we paid extra for from new? Has been now been replaced twice after Clipper made a mess of it. (wrong prep and primer) It's now going to be done again properly by us. Cost? £578.00 for materials and then the lift. Don't get us wrong; The boat is great, fast, strong, and just what we wanted. The process to get us where we wanted to be has left us disappointed, out of pocket and thinking much the same as James. Good video telling it how it is! Sail Safe Guys, Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
T Sorry to read about your experience with Clipper Marine. However, I felt compelled to write something as I have bought 2 new Bavaria's from them, first in 2017 and then upgraded in 2019. Both came with issues but I have to say the after sales service and warranty work was excellent and I couldn't fault them.
I think that everybody who bought a Bavaria see 57 should hire an attorney and file a class action and yeah because they went into chapter something, there’s not a lot accountability but you can have them cited for Maritime on safety for provisioning boats that should’ve never been commissioned as seaworthy and you can get them that way and go after the administration and the people in the higher ups because once you file for administration, it’s still the same people running the show and you should go after them
@@maxflight777 Mainly poor (non existent) after sales service. They had no dedicated Bavaria approved or trained service team. The quality of the remedial works was appalling! They never returned emails or letters. They just kept kicking the can down the road until the 12 month warranty period was up. Then walked away. We are still dealing with issues around the poor remedial work to the Copper coat to the keel which was poorly applied and subsequently even more poorly applied through their contractor. The Copper coat is good but the substrate has delaminated for a third time. Yet again we find ourselves having to foot the bill to have the work done properly. Yes we would buy another Bavaria. However, we would have a full survey, reject the boat on delivery until all the remedial works are completed under our surveyors, and our supervision. We would not accept the boat or pay a penny until the surveyor was happy, we were happy and we had completed a minimum 50 hours of sea trials. Solid, fast boat let down by $h1t after sales.
I spent many years sailing around Italy and France, and we rarely ever stayed in marina's, plenty of places to live on the anchor. Croatia has plenty of place to anchor, Greece is really pretty much the sole hold out here, they are picky about where you anchor. Those are some pretty crazy prices that were posted in this video, I never came close to those numbers.
Thank you for sharing what it is felt from my view an honest assessment of your experience, and what I learned and took from it is to avoid new boats, specially if you are inexperience.
This is a fabulous, important video. The lesson, which he uttered at the very beginning, is to buy a used boat. On a smaller but not minor scale, I had the same experience and feel the same way. If I do it again, used! Been on land for six years now but am wondering.....
There's a trend now for non-sailors to buy boats and think they can beat the high cost of owning a home . I believe your video of your honest costs for cruising should be mandatory viewing . You seem like a very cool couple and your boat is really nice ! Cheers ..
Good explanation. Things come for different tastes. One doesn’t need half of the things they added, but it’s their boat, I do think it looks neat. I’m more simplistic and practical. That said, one has to live on a boat in order to see if one would want to pay the costs for those things that aren’t essential needs. When I was looking at aircraft, I drew a line at the maximum total expenses (fixed and variable) for which I had budgeted, worked 15% below there to account for overruns. Same applies to boat purchases and anything else in life.
I would only consider buying a brand new ⛵ if I won the lottery. Even then all the overhead expenses like docking, fuel & insurance would make me think twice. Either way I would invest in renewable energy (like a bimini top solar panel and/or wind turbine) to minimize or eliminate fuel consumption.
Having purchased three new boats, over the last 20 years, our current being 51 foot and commissioned in 2019 I would whole heartedly agree with James’s comments, but the need to use expensive marinas in the Mediterranean, I would disagree. We have a water maker generator and solar panels and rarely use marines throughout the summer. Our annual berthing fees including winter lift and hard stand come to around 7000 euros, way below what James says he paid. For six months Mediterranean cruising our fuel bill is about 600 euros, we have the same 110hp motor.
Buy well equipped 2-3 year new boat. In that way most of the teething problems are resolved and the optional equipment is near new and should be in good working order.
Thanks for sharing their story. It is consistent experience as shared by other new boat buyers. We will be buying used because new is too expensive anyway but we figure we'll have to deal with problems regardless.
