The History of the zodiac and astrology - Ophiuchus, the forgotten star sign 

Did you want to know about Babylonian cosmology? Or any other culture?

I'm not super into the zodiac, but I always find it sad that most of us live in places where we can't see many stars. I went camping a few weeks ago, far from any city or large town, and was shocked by how many stars I could see. 🌟

I’m an Ophiucan and lifelong science nerd. Whenever anyone asked me what sign I was I would tell them Ophiucus, which invariably got me nothing but a blank stare in response. Interestingly, no one ever asked me what I was talking about or showed any curiosity about my answer. Maybe they thought I didn’t understand their question and I was telling them I was from some obscure country called Ophiuc.

Thank-you for your video, Crecganford. The mechanics of Astrology flourished due to the knowledge that the Sun is the centre of the solar system: the Earth is placed in the centre of the natal chart. I have a degree in psychology and have studied Astrology since I was a teenager and I've not come across any particular conflict between these two systems. The biggest difference is that Astrology is much faster at indicating times and natures of critical experiences. Finding new planets resulted in discussions of their meanings and applications but even the moons of the outer planets and asteroids have been associated with mundane phenomena, now. There was never a 'crisis' when Uranus, Neptune or Pluto were discovered. The planets were associated with the times in which they were discovered and astrological theorists determined their most suitable integration, a process of democratic discussion and observation conducted over decades, and based on observation. In the 1980s, the 13th sign debate was about Arachnid. Seems to be a pop culture phenomenon to attract attention to and to cast doubt on the reliability of Astrology. Please beware of any 'debate' as a debate is never about the truth, but about whose argument is most persuasive. Astrology functions on observation, not opinion. Basics: 360 divided by 12. There will never be a 13h sign. I strongly recommend reading some useful texts and applying theory to reality before offering opinion on fundamental changes to an ancient system. Dane Rhudhyar, Martin Shulman, AT Mann and Robert Pelletier are good starting points. There are many people who view Astrology with disdain but very few who've bothered to investigate one of our most thoroughly developed systems of mythology. As you've noted, this system has continuity spanning millennia and a variety of cultures, languages, and technologies, and it is still functioning beautifully!. I hope you get to know your natal chart.

A vid on mesopotamian cosmology would be very cool indeed

I love to study myths and astrology. Ophiuchus was recognized in both tropical and sidereal systems. It is tied into the Scorpio's story and bridges to Sagittarius. It brings different layers to those zodiac signs. As in regards to placement in the 12 houses it's considered to be part of Scorpio 8th house: Death and Transformation. It could be considered a hidden zodiac in relationship with the 12 tribes of Israel because Levi is a hidden tribe, the priest class. If it becomes designated as its own zodiac and house it will become the 9th and the wheel will shift, Pisces will go from the 12th spot to the 13th. One thing I dont like is modern astrologers don't know their astronomy. They use computers that dont take the wobble into account and their charts are all wrong. Historically you needed astronomy and you looked through a telescope. So now they say its symbolism. Nope, people are lazy and dont want to study astronomy and learn to hand plot natal charts or readings like they did in the past. One day I want to be able to correctly plot natal charts using a telescope 🔭 after Im done with all my biology classes. Love your videos. Thank you. Im a sun pisces, lunar capricorn, rising leo and north node sagittarius born in the year of the wood rabbit. My three pillars are all rabbits. My hidden fourth pillar will stay hidden. As for the Vedic system, I shift into Aquarius but Im a Pisces hands down. 🐟☺️🐟

BIG FAN of your work. I am a professional astrologer (with an educational background in psychology) rooted in archetypal symbology and ancient mythology (I include Ophiuchus lol) I reference your work often. truth be told I was worried going into this video that you (like many academics) were going to have far too literal of a lens to cover this topic from a perspective that gives it the respect it deserves, I was wrong - this was fabulous. will be joining your Patreon, did I hear you mention before that it grant access to a giant mythological database?

Always a pleasure to hear you unwind the knotted threads of our ancient notions on place and purpose. Thanks again, Jon. All the best 🤙

I'm one! December 13th. Some people call me a natural healer and I can charm animals, truth!

There is a longtime misunderstanding there. Astrology is about the movement of planets (+sun & moon) along their apparent (i.e. geocentric) path in the sky. This path (the zodiac) has been arbitrarily divided in twelve equal 30° parts, called the signs. This division is based on the seasons, that is on equinoxes and solstices, on the orbit of earth around the sun with respect to its inclination. Not on the stars in the background. Since Antiquity we know that this path is not constant, and Kepler/Newton have showed why. SOME constellations (12) have been named for these signs. For example, people born in deep summer having the traits of lions, the sign got the name of Lion and afterwards the group of stars got that name. The rest of star clusters have been named later, by the Greeks, for mythological figures in the greek pantheon: Andromeda, Pegasus, Cassiopea, Procyon, Orion... and Ophiuchus. These are NOT zodiacal constellations! ( Probably the Chaldeans didn't need to name star clusters for themselves.) Anyway, the idea of a constellation is totally arbitrary, no law exists to attribute a star to this or that cluster. It is only very recently (end of XIXth c.) that a precise pattern of cutting the celestial sphere in zones has been designed, keeping the old name constellations for these zones. Among which Ophiuchus has been extended into the Zodiac and other "sign" constellations have spilled over. So, neither the signs, nor the personalities associated, are derived from constellations. It is the other way around: those 12 constellation names are derived from the signs they were in, during those ancient times. Today, there is discrepancy between signs (seasons) and constellations (sky) because of the equinoxial precession since those times. For example, the vernal equinox is on 0°Aries in Signs, but somewhere in Aquarius in Sky. Who cares? Astrology is about seasons and personality, not about astronomy.

Absolutely Awesome! Had investigated this topic myself, but how you connected the cultural adaption across the timeline- awesome!

Good one! I love how you don't seem to believe in anything but know all about everything!

Thank you so much for this video. After seeing the 13th constellation, I wanted to know more. 10 Years ago after taking an Astronomy class, the book gave the 13. Why does this matter to me? I just love the truth. Getting readings is nonsense and especially when they go by the signs that are mostly different.

As mentioned, absolutely awesome, love it! Some sidenotes: I would have preferred the myth from the older sumerian over the greeks- a.e the capricornus makes absolute no sense even in the greek mythology- in sumerian, fish and ram are attributed to enlil, and hybrid beeings where more common- still an odd thing, but still better fitting the cultural context than in greek myth. I actually still search for better explanations. May be two even older mythical beiings had been fusioned here ? Then I had an complete "Heureka!" moment when you explained why the early christians didn't like astrology even if their own origin is full of it- it's all about the free will concept, absolute brilliant how you hit the nail on the head! I feel, stars&myth are probably an very old concept in human history and Göpekli Tepe might tell us even older variants of astrology. A myth is such a powerful way of memorizing an otherwise abstract "constellation", but constellations are so useful for all ancient travellers, seafarers..it has to be much older than 5000BCE, just we have no writings of this times. Will dig also into polynesian constellations, I guess seafaring cultures probably have a broader and deeper connection to constellations.

Excellent work as always! This has probably been mentioned before, but I'd love to see your take on the mythological theories of Robert Graves.

Great work, thank you, I so look forward to your videos! Take good care!

Dude, your library is looking so nice these days!!!! You can never have too many books, I say!!!❤

Cheers great work! i like your style of show and delivery.

Great video and excellent work!

Love your videos… thanks for what you do

Chinese and Vedic astrology is so complicated. Chinese - not only the year, but the hour and minute when you were born. I'm a metal Ox, but have almost no Yang in my chart. Vedic I'm a Libra, because they work off the moon (Western Scorpio). Fascinating stuff. Thanks for this rabbit hole dive into astrology.

The enunciation of Cosmic Hunt right at the start was perfect. I had a big LOL flashback to that video from last year. Great content, as always!

Another stellar lesson Jon. Very informative, interesting and captivating as always. Keep up the great work and have a great weekend. Look forward to your next lesson as always. 😊

I love learning with you xxx thanks Jon.

The underlying problem here is basically one of misnomers, not science. The Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn were misnamed for the constellations that lied behind them at the time, but that doesn’t mean the Tropics are unscientific. “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet”, and the Sun reaching a Tropic makes a solstice, regardless of what you call it. In this same thread, the “Signs” were not based on the constellations, which vary wildly in size. The Signs are 12 30° segments of the ecliptic because there are two Solstices, and two equinoxes (4) and between each of these Cardinal points the Moon goes around 3 full times (4x3=12). This makes 12 equal sections, of which the pie-slices were *named* after constellations seen behind them at the time, but the constellations are not their origin or the rationale behind their interpretive functions. Understanding this, no, the Zodiac was not broken by leaving out Ophiuchus. It gets broken by including it. Still love the video, one of my favorite YT channels of all time!

Ah yippee I was always thinking about this in my practice. 😊 I'm intrigued and curious altogether.

It seems only natural to think the stars could control things. Because we see how changing stars correlates with changing seasons, and it's easy to wrongly infer causation, especially as wise people begin to be able to predict seasons using the stars. But if the stars can control the weather, then perhaps they can control other things, as well. I strongly suspect that a lot of 'magical thinking' is merely misplaced inferences of causation, usually by mistaking some things that seem connected in our minds as some things with real causal connections between them.

Very, very well done- thank you 🙏x

WOW insta-subscriber!🙏🏼🤯 & This is my second time watching this EPIC vid!👏🏽👏🏼

Astrology, myths, ancient belives are fascinating. I am enjoying listening to you. 😊

32:57 “and with that one decision (12 signs/months), the Zodiac broke - on the proviso that you thought it was working in the first place.” 😋 🌷🌱 your conclusion is quite interesting. and, just from my own experience, i was born in mid September - Fall is my very favorite time of year and i actually feel more comfortable in the Fall : cool air, the colors, the weather, celebration of the harvest, a p p l e s and cider. . . i really learned quite a lot, too. so thanks much - and you stay safe, also. :) 🌷🌱

Thanks

Very interesting, I'm half way through and still nothing about Ophiuchus....

Oh hey, I just noticed your RU-vid bling sitting on the shelf behind you. Good job, glad I could be a part of that. Keep up with the fantastic mythological content.

Sigh, well done overall, kind of dropped the ball when talking about Ophiuchus and sidereal vs. tropical systems.

I'm glad I subscribed to your channel. I've always been curious about the origins of everything because I wonder what inspiration caused these discoveries

Very insightful, as always! Thank you for this. ✨

I came around your channel last year and have already drank so much cups of amazing tea while watching your videos)) I've always been a big fan of mythology but also watching you to expand my english vocabulary. Thank you

This is a wonderful video. I just clicked the like and sub buttons. More please! Thank you so much!

A question I have had for ages already, and maybe you know the answer: in the far past they looked at the stars and visualised lines between some of them. That's something I can follow. But then. From those lines they made phantasies about animals and persons. How did they 'see' a complete animal from just two or three lines? I cannot see it. How is it possible that in different cultures they combined the same stars into the same lines and visualised those lines into the same animals?? Or did they tell the lines and the stories to each other?

Great stuff!

Oooo I haven’t listened yet but I’m excited to!

*"The stars incline but do not compel."

Hi Jon. On one of your earlier vids it says to look you up on FB, but I can't find a Crecganford page there, only your Jon F White page. Can you tell me if I'm missing something please. Can't get enough of your subjects--thanks!

Lovely video very informative, speaking from a former Hellenistic astrology student. You’ve tied the story very nicely and in such a concise way. Thank you 😊

So well done. Thank you.

This was great!! I too do not believe that anything can predict the future. That being said, there are archetypal themes in the 12 zodiac signs, the different aspects between the planets and what they signify and by keeping those "life lessons" constantly in the forefront of our minds, it helps us be more intentional about life, rather than living in a haphazard way without personal growth.

I’d like a more exhaustive look at the Chinese Encabulation of lunar solar calendar synthesis into the yearly animal designations.

Sorry, sounds like a good video to sleep to until the ad comes on blasting because the volume is up due to whispering

Thank you so much.

A lot of stone circles in ireland have 13 stones in their circles. Thirteen astrological signs.

Please turn the sound up!!

Thanks for the link to the report from the European College of Neuropsychopharmacology.

Wildly inspiring as always,no one ever told me this. Thanks you very much, Sir.

Very interesting to hear the evolution of astrology-thank you. It seems we are continuing that evolution with our modern concept of generational differences: Boomers, Xers, Millennials, etc. Admittedly not based on the stars, but like the Chinese zodiac’s main premise, based on when you were born, which in turn determines what world event(s) shape your understanding of the human condition.

In Lascaux cave in western France there is a cave art depiction of a large Bull on the wall. A closer look shows the Bull has seven dots around its eye. This is not a physical biological Bull it is the Taurus constellation. The Bull clearly has seven dots around its eye. This clearly is the Taurus constellation as no Bull has anything similar in reality. I think the cave art is around 30,000 years old. It is attributed to the Cro-Magnon. So even that far back the constellation is associated with the Bull. A full zodiacal precession takes around 25,772 years and to confirm that the observed constellations are actually repeating the circle again an observer would need to follow another full precession for another 25,772 years. Thats a total of 51,544 years to fully observe and confirm the observation is accurate. Plus the painting date of aprox. 30,000 years means we could be looking at a symbolic depiction that shows Taurus was associated and known as a Bull since possibly 80,000 years ago. Thats assuming that further precessions were not required to associate each constellation with an appropriate animal or similar known item, like the Libra scales. This points to an ancient understanding of the Zodiacal constellations and the appropriate symbol to give the constellation a meaning to what its influence upon us is about, a symbol to show what characteristics it directly governs and exerts its subtle influence upon us. This puts the knowledge of the precession and zodiac constellations as clearly in the Neandertal heartland. And long before the Cro-Magnons even appeared in the region. It seems that the knowledge may have been passed onto the Cro-Magnon population by the long time residents of the region, the Neandertals. The painting on the wall also lines up with the actual real constellation in the sky directly behind the cave at the time it was painted i think (dont quote that) This appears to be a painting used as an educational device to keep the knowledge going and passed on to the new species and then into our culture.

Fascinating stuff. I'd love to hear more about Egypt's cosmology.

Voy a escribir en español ya que mi English is very Bad. Las constelaciones sirvieron para identificar las regiones del cielo que recorre el sol en su ciclo anual, los signos no son las constelaciones. El horóscopo es un calendario por eso es regular (30° por signo). Además la astrología no se basa en una relación de causa y efecto pese a que en el modo de hablar se diga que un planeta influencia de tal o cuál manera. El principio que rige a la astrología, que vincula lo que pasa en el cielo con las vidas de las personas es el principio hermético de correpondencia, como es arriba es abajo. Por otro lado es un conocimiento simbólico y no científico, en ese sentido está en un lugar intermedio entre ciencia y arte.

These stories and traditions are awsome! Literally lol

Just found your channel. Great job. Much ❤ Love 🌎🌍🌏⚡️☯️

Do you have a suggestion for a popular book with a collection of these origin myth? I like reading these like campfire stories to my kids. I especially like the one about the world diver. If there isn’t one, do you plan on writing one?

"If that's not astrology, I'll quit drinking tea" now that's an endorsement 😂 27:45

All good Jon, but you should use the word astronomical more than astrological. Most of the time they observed something so its astronomical. I know the 2 were blurred until a few hundred years ago in Europe. The predictive stuff comes afterwards. Its no mystery how these things were seen if you spend years under the stars. One sort of correction (and you alluded to it) is that the constellation of Libra was a 17th century addition and no part of Ptolemy's list. Zuben-Al-Genubi or 'Claw of the Scorpion' is Alpha Libris or the brightest star in Libra. And of course the whole sky wobbles/rotates every 26,000 years to add discrepancies and tilts. Great presentation as always.

Thank you! What a fun video. I feel like the... hmmm... prescience? of astrology are due to the strength of the person's belief in them. Kind of a self- fulfilling prophesy. Also, wouldn't the extremely ancient stories of the Pleadies hint that observation of the heavens, and possibly some sort of proto astrology, may be even older than the Babylonians?

Always

Me think the zadoic move like planets too than must now the star sign balance stand of the Capricorn sign. And all pushed behind. Its like by a watch wich show the time its move like star signs too

Thank you. I 😘 be this

8 commercials for excellent content

Such a great storyteller. Another delightful presentation, as informative and educational as it was entertaining. I appreciate your time and efforts producing such quality on a regular basis. The world needs more scholars like you. ❤

Where do you get these crazy ages from?

Thank you.

It'd be my sign.

Thank you, I would love to learn more about Castor and Pollux

I'd love to learn more about various zodiacs from different cultures. I'm a libra/scorpio, wood tiger. My partner is a cancer wood tiger. Kids are Virgo dog, capricorn dragon/rabbit, and Virgo rooster.

just wanted to say i LOVE that you provide proper subtitles! much appreciated

there are zodiac signs at Goebekli Tepe that were used to encode the date of the comet impact

The Song of Kumarbi or Kingship in Heaven is the title given to a Hittite version of the Hurrian Kumarbi myth, dating to the 14th or 13th century BC. It is preserved in three tablets, but only a small fraction of the text is legible. The song relates that Alalu was overthrown by Anu who was in turn overthrown by Kumarbi. When Anu tried to escape, Kumarbi bit off his genitals and spat out three new gods. In the text Anu tells his son that he is now pregnant with the Teshub, Tigris, and Tašmišu. Upon hearing this Kumarbi spit the semen upon the ground and it became impregnated with two children. Kumarbi is cut open to deliver Tešub. Together, Anu and Teshub depose Kumarbi. The Taurus Mountains are a mountain complex in southern Turkey, dividing the Mediterranean coastal region of southern Turkey from the central Anatolian Plateau. The bull was commonly the symbol and depiction of ancient Near Eastern storm gods, hence Taurus the bull, etc., and hence the name of the mountains. The mountains are a place of many ancient storm-god temples (Alberto Ravinell and Whitney Green, The Storm-god in the Ancient Near East, p. 126). These mountains were deemed by the ancient Syrians to be the work of the storm-god Adad to make the Tigris and Euphrates rivers rise and flood and thereby fertilise their land (H.W.F. Saggs, The greatness that was Babylon: a survey of the ancient civilization of the Tigris-Euphrates Valley, Sidgwick & Jackson, 2nd Revised edition, 1988, p. 380). The city of Kummanni persisted into the Early Iron Age, and appears as Kumme in Assyrian records. It was located on the edge of Assyrian influence in the far northeastern corner of Mesopotamia, separating Assyria from Urartu and the highlands of southeastern Anatolia. Kummanni was the major cult center of the Hurrian chief deity, the mighty weather god Tešup. Its Hurrian name Kummeni simply translates as “The Shrine.” Kumme was still considered a holy city in Assyrian times, both in Assyria and in Urartu. Adad-nirari II, after re-conquering the city, made sacrifices to “Adad of Kumme.” The three chief deities in the Urartian pantheon were “the god of Ardini, the god of Kumenu, and the god of Tushpa.” The green cylinder seal of Adad, shows him rising up between two mountains, Taurus would be one mountain. In astrology, Taurus is the Throat, in the story, Kumarbi bit off Anu's genitals, the Orion Nebula, Teshub, the Bull Slayer is the star at the tip of Orion's Sword, Hatysa, the Sanskrit word Gohatya means "Cow Killer". When you place Teshub/Hatysa on the Western horizon (Gaia), the side that the sun sits on, Alula (Alalu) is at mid-heaven, it means "First Born". With Zeus, he gave birth through is Thigh, which is the location of Hatysa on Orion. On the day of the Summer Solstice, you find the sun at the tip of Orion's Club, which is his cut oof penis. The Winter Solstice sun is found on the Thigh zodiac, Sagittarius, next to a little blood red spot called Spiculum, meaning Spear, the 7 main stars of Ophiuchus form the other mountain, they form the shape of a cave door, but it is the belly of the heavenly goddess, Scorpio is the sexual organ, between sexual organ and the hips and thighs, Sagittarius, is the hidden13th zodiac, the womb of the goddess, Ophiuchus, that grows as big as a mountain. The star alignment with Hatysa on the horizon and Alula at mid-heaven happens in December and 9 months later in September, a Virgo, in between The Golden Gate of the Gods, Sagittarius, and the Silver Gate of Man, between Gemini and Taurus, where you find the Club of Orion marks the center, December alignment, just before dawn, September's alignment is 7 hours later, 12:00 noon. It takes Alula 7 hours to fall from mid-heaven to the horizon, replaced by the She Goat, the mother of Damu "the Child", the dying and rising god of healing, the She Goat is Vega, associated with goddess Bau, the first doctor. Spiculum, the little bloody red spot, is a tool used by doctors, the speculum is placed into the woman, to look where babies come from. the total time between both alignments is 6,606 hours, hey is that 666, the number of man and the beast.

Great video, thanks for sharing it. But it does seem a little bit strange for a 40min. video on the 'History of the zodiac and astrology' to have no mention, however brief of Vedic astrology....🤔

What about Sigmund Freud?

Another older version of Capricorn is that its the sign or symbol of Enki, the Sumerian creator and wisdom god.

Fascinating as always, thank you. I would enjoy more about these ancient cultures. As we 'evolve' we'd best not ignore the ancient wisdom. I have a feeling that we'd miss too much of intuitive value if we focus too much on the 'measurable'. As for astrology, I don't have a set opinion, but simply find it interesting. (ps, leave it to me to be Ophiuchus .... figures)

Acupuncture, like astrology, doesn't hold up to scientific examination, but people live by it. They both have their roots in the stone age. I know its not your normal cup o' tea, but you mighr want to do a program about that.

great information , can u make a video about south turkish astrology

Nana. Do you mean Gran?

🔮

Wait! I'm not ready! I'm boiling a cuppa now! Ok Go

Metal Ox, here… checking out the video. Glad you included the Chinese version.😊

As a practicing constellational 13 sign astrologer - I appreciate this compilation. Thanks!

This is wonderful! Thank you! So well done.

I used to be very into astrology when l had a more mystical frame of mind. I have thought for a long time however that the most important planet in astrology is the earth and its seasons. It makes sense that the time of year that one enters the world will impact one's personality as it impacts everything in nature. People who study and practise astrology seriously use it as a lens on the human psyche, not as a predicter of future events and Michel Gauquelin did find a significant statistical correlation between choices of career and the position of planets at the moment of birth.

M Still waiting for my prince to come.. hahaah😂

🐖 🐂 🐓 🐍 a sacrifice to the algorithm gods

How are golden ages defined? Like, what's the minimum 'requirement' for a period of time to be defined as 'especially good', how did it start and has it changed over time? Who defined the first golden age? (I'll take a wild guess with the greeks because they got something with calling stuff golden). Is it aspirational goals for a people and are they self-defined? Sorry, English is not my first language, but the 'golden age' thing seems so loosely defined from someone like me who's more a "I like listening to stories" person. And your storytelling is great so thanks for the video 😊 Edit: Also I now realize that these question might have a pretty big definition behind it and is not easily answered, but when I try to find out what a golden age is, I get things about aliens, planets, civ 5 and very recent history. I don't get like a strict (or even semi-strict) definition or a 'loosely approximated growth for different variables' for it to classify. Maybe my google-fu is just bad and maybe I ask too many questions at once, so a resource or a nod in the right direction for at least an attempt at a definition would be cool ✌

27 asterisms in Vedic astrology.

Indeed, it is the seasons that Western astrology is based on. And we're adding new fixed stars, dwarf planets and other astronomical bodies all the time :) I still find astrology to be quite helpful, when approached in a respectful way that's not trendy. JP Morgan used an astrologer, and attributed its assistance in his success. And the Sun sign is just one piece of what should be included in any chart readings. As well as whether one was born during the day, or during the night. You research into the history is well-done.

Is there any relationship between the Egyptians lunar zodiac and those found in China or India?

Horoscopes were probably entered in india with alexendra. Earlier astrology was different.

I used to hang around the guys who invented constellations. Back when there were still some Neanderthals around (though we didn't call them that, we called them Big Brows). It was a fellow named Thagan, son of Thag, who started using names to describe the constellations as we did our seasonal migration. It made it easier for people to remember when to leave and which way to go. Pretty soon, Thagan's got an official title of Star Teller, which comes with a really nice long stick, and a string with knots in it, as well as some other nerds who helped. Suddenly, that weirdo who stared at the sky at night is a really big deal, and everybody wants his autograph. Of course he couldn't give them one, for the same reason he never wrote them down in the first place. No pencils. The guy who pretty much cornered the stone age pencil market got stepped on by a mastodon. So, he made up all those names, but didn't write it down because he couldn't find a pencil. That's the best I can remember. Thanks for another entertaining video.

Fairy Tail made me in to zodiac

12-13-1986 ⛎⛎⛎