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Holy shit! This guy actually knows what he's talking about. Listen, I'm experienced in this field, high end audio, received my MECP in the mid 90's, not to mention over 20 years experience in high performance engines, fabrications, & many other things. So my point is that I'm knowledgeable & experienced in many things, & so can verify if someone knows what they are talking about, or full of it. Honestly I so expected to put this guy on blast, & call him out on his bullshit. But I was wrong. He didn't say the same bs, the same wrong bs, that most say. And in fact, he is on point. I tip my hat. Glad to see good & informative videos, advice, etc etc being made.
I just added 30 caps just like those that were 3v 3000f to my system. Made all the bus bars by hand and a little wood box for the whole thing to go into. They have really helped.
Sean you have the best information and thank ypu for always showing us... When i get rich ima buy your EQUIPMENT... Let me refrase that not rich but in a more stable place financially in my life... My boy bought two of your merica 12ks... I want them too and some ermargard neos some day
I have a picture on IG or FB showing the inside of a capacitor (1Farad). There was 2 small caps soldered onto a PCB. I fell out laughing. Never ran those type of caps even when they were new to me. Nice Share!!!
I've seen things like that before, and not all of them are that way, but still a thing. Many years ago, I took a picture (have it somewhere) of a 0.5F capacitor that had a 4,000 watt amp connected to it. It exploded the capacitor.
I have the cased cap bank from XS Power, wonderful plug and play setup, I have it on the same circuit as my JY 80Ah Lithium with a 270amp alternator, voltage holds up strong and i get the power i need for SPL competitions! Caps and Lithium = a perfect combo of power!
EMF Audio thank you for the quick reply, I have a full throttle group 34 in the back, was thinking of running the super caps under the hood. Just trying to run 2-2.5k rms
I bought a six pack of Maxwell 2.5V caps a year ago and still have to use them because I'm still planing out my system. Can you use caps + Lithium + AGM under the hood combine to get the best benefit they each have to offer?
AGM + caps limits you to the abilities of AGM. Lithium + caps does have advantages. AGM + lithium + caps would have the AGM bringing the whole system down. The only benefit to AGM or lithium is cost and stability.
An amp hour (AH) is a rating usually found on deep cycle batteries. The standard rating is an amp rating taken for 20 hours. What this means for a 100 AH rated battery is this: Draw from the battery for 20 hours, and it will provide a total of 100 amp hours. That translates to about 5 amps anhour.
Can you run AGM batteries along with super caps? If so are there any draw backs? Also I currently have an 80 ah bank of yinlong cells and wondered if I would gain anything if I ran a couple banks along with the lithium cells?
There are disadvantages to running them with AGM. AGM will natively try to pull the caps down like I mentioned in the video. Pairing caps with lithium yields a better benefit.
just wondering is newer Fosgte 10 farad hybrid cap any good or are they a waste too tyring to have faith rockford they aint selling something that dont work know that they know those older ones were junk
I haven't tested one of those, but it sounds like it might be like the Alumapro video I did 6 years ago ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vTuJ7oz9g80.html Rockford used to sell those "older ones" too.
would this be a good route to use on a 1500w system (not clamped)? i have a x12 rev1 sub on a xtr 1500 amp. just have a big 3 using 0 awg and a slight bump up on the alt from 80a to 130a. its a daily, just wanna get the most out of it
safe to mix with lithium? .. also i have my lithium with agm main batt and a gel secondary batt everyone telling me i'm making a huge mistake but my voltage seldom drops below 12.2 and my system is 5k (25 ah limitless and a reikken 35ah gel and autozone h7 agm 850cca) please clear this up for me. muchos gratzias
Everybody is telling you that because they're right. Caps and lithium are a great way to get the capacity while maintaining power delivery and voltage benefits. I'm willing to bet you could get one of these emfcaraudio.com/products/xs-power-sb1000-31 to replace your AGM and gel your voltage would actually increase. 2 of them definitely would increase.
Awesome video, I have one question though maybe I missed it. But am I able to put these super cabs in between my secondary battery and amp? Or do I get rid of the secondary battery and just put the caps? Thanks
If you were going to add caps to a system with a secondary battery you would very specifically want them between the battery and amp. As far as getting rid of the battery is concerned, that will depend on if you need the reserve the caps don't offer or if you have so many caps the battery is just pulling the caps down. If you have a large demand of power, odds are having both will be your best course of action.
Would these be good for a aplication such as a ecm regulated alt? I have a 14 tahoe that id like to run 4krms in and the alt doesnt always charge at 14.4
Can I use these supercells to replace all my secondary batteries? I’m trying to run a taramps bass 5k with very low voltage drop for best results. What would you recommend? Thanks Sean!!
Absolutely, that's the purpose of them. The charging power you have is a factor in what you would need, but you could do it in 1 case with this one emfcaraudio.com/collections/super-capacitors-1/products/xs-power-sb1500-75 and you should have virtually no drop.
As stated in the video, 1 bank for every 2,000 watts is a good guideline. So you'd need 4-5 banks which could be had in 2 of these emfcaraudio.com/collections/super-capacitors-1/products/xs-power-sb1000-31
What is the draw back from series 6 instead of five , if I want to charge up to 17 volts for a burp at competition, in a 14.4 volt charging system, would a series of large circuit breakers between the cap banks and battery banks be the way to go , or just supercharge the whole system for just a minute or two , I know sometimes it’s good to overcharge batteries for a short period to remove internal build up , your thoughts would be appreciated thanks awesome channel 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Capacitors don't get build up on the plates (and a battery conditioner is a better option than hot charging them) because that isn't a thing. Now, for using 6 you have to consider you're reducing capacity. With a 3,000 F capacitor with 5 cells per bank you get 600F vs doing 6 cells per bank you get 500F. You gain the voltage capability but lose some capacity. That being said, if you have a 14.4v charging system you will never get 17v, because all you have is 14.4v. Caps don't make voltage, it stores voltage.
Yes I know caps don’t make voltage , I have an adjustable regulator on my alternator, I see using 6 would give me less available amperage but would not 2 volts higher allow the amps to make more peak power , thank you for your reply I appreciate it your channel is awesome 👍🏻
So from my calculations one bank of those has about 90Wh, which means it's probably equivalent to 1/10 of a full battery. You can draw about 5000watts from these for a solid 30 seconds before they are empty. That sounds very useful, and more than enough for any average system!
Your calculations are off. Each one of those cells is 3.18 Wh, keeping in mind you aren't adding capacity with every cell either. I'm not sure where you came up with 90 Wh. 5,000 watts for 30 seconds will take a D3100 into 10v with no alternator power behind it, and that has way more capacity.
@@EMFAudio Ah I made a big mistake, forgetting capacitance doesn't add up in series, and about voltage drop. Each bank is around 18 Wh then like you said. Which then could give around 2160w for 30 seconds, which like you said though, is only theoretical, which means it would be to much lower voltage, which makes it a lot less useful. Are you familiar with what voltage range the capacitance is given? Does it work like batteries in than you only rate it to a certain voltage, not to 0v .
@@AdmitthatijustdiditX You know, I can't confirm that as I've never looked into it since they don't get damaged by going to 0v. When they're "dead" they're still good.
A cap bank that’s sufficient for the power your running will not drop more then .5v per seconds, therefore with no charging starting at 15v at the end of a second burp you shouldn’t be any less then 13.5v :) A cap bank stores power and a battery makes power. Using a cap bank with an agm makes you have full potential from alternator charging voltage right down, essentially any voltage above battery float voltage is useless but with a cap bank that extra 1.5-2v above float charge is now useable energy 👍 Personally burping a dc 3.5k off a 1000f bank starting at 15.1v made 4200wrms and dropped to 14.7v with a 240a alternator, doing this test off an agm battery battery saw voltage drop to high 11’s and didn’t make as much power. Cap banks ftw 👍
Play tones at the same volume level, use a digital multimeter to check voltage output from the amp. Use tones around where you think it's tuned and the least voltage showing up on the meter is your tuning.
What would I need to do to use a 8k amp in my vehicle even if I do not use full power of amp because I can not give it full power can I run a 8k amp off of stock car and only use about 20percent of the amps power
What if you have an 8K amplifier but you are not turning the amplifier higher than halfway can you still get away with the three bank set up or does it still draw 8K no matter what
I’m running two XSpower d7500 one under my hood one as a secondary batt. Dual runs of O gauge wire dual to secondary batt dual power and ground inputs to my stetsom 6k 2ohm 390 amp Alt from U.S Alternators a 1000 watt 4 channel amp an eq. I have good grounds and a magaraisn voltage regulator I sit at 14.8 car on 15.6 I don’t dip much maybe down to 14.2. But my car drops revs when the hard low long bass hits. Now I’m sending the Alt in to be looked at it’s makijf noise just after I installed the 2nd batt. Would XS’’s sb-1000 help. But please help. Thanks.
The revs drop because you're putting a load on the engine. If it's putting out power, it's going to do that. Is the noise a whining noise? That's also normal for alternators with a load on it. If that's the same US Alternators I'm thinking of I can tell you 2 things though. It's not making anywhere near 390 amps and if it's around 9 months old it's dying. Your voltage is too high for those batteries though, which could be causing your alternator issues, because you've killed your batteries. I would check for bulging on the batteries, I'm willing to bet they're bulged, both of them. You should NEVER charge AGM's above 15.0v, and only then for short periods like competition or maybe in cold climates in winter. In summer you're just killing the batteries, even potentially at 14.4v in extreme heat.
I’ve never charged the batteries. There’s no bulging. U.S Alts is the only place that makes any aftermarket Alts for 4.6L cars like mine GMarquis. I don’t listen to my bass when engine is off only when on. I’m gathering super caps only help in burps witch I don’t do just a daily bass guy. Bassotronics is the only think my custom 15’s like to play. Orion hcca’s motors on FI audio sp4 baskets built for playing lows 20-28hz. That’s what I asked for when I met my sub builder. Love my subs
@@workingclassperson2124 You just said you've got them installed, but said you've never charged them. If they're installed and that's where your voltage regulator is set, you're charging it at that voltage. Caps can be used for daily, you just need more of them. If you had enough for 1,000 watts per bank daily you'd have next to know drop.
I’m aware traditional caps are generally considered a bandaid for improper or inadequate power wiring on average systems... but are u familiar with BatCaps? If so, thoughts? Years ago I was introduced to Xstatic BatCaps, which I understand are like hybrid battery capacitors. The smaller models are meant to pickup the slack on average systems & double as a normal battery for small vehicles/ atv’s etc. and the larger models are high performance quick cycle batteries. They’ve been around at least 15 years and I first got mine at a serious local auto custom shop- I did notice a decent performance boost and both my old & new ones somehow managed to help start my car for a while after my normal battery wore out. Opinions?
Ever take apart a Batcap? There is no cap part it, it's 6 batteries. Depending on which one you have, they're Hawker D or X cells I believe. They helped, mostly because it was just a high density battery. Their giant one they had (I can't remember the model of it) was something like 96 of those cells.
I’ve taken apart lots of things but not one of those yet- I’m certainly a little more wary about opening those components after getting a few nice shocks thru the years. So u saying it’s a high density battery, as compared to a normal car battery? Or is it basically just a mini secondary battery? What’s your opinion on them? Is there any reason why it should or shouldn’t be used? Haven’t seen any noticeable drawbacks in use, but maybe there’s something I missed? Thanks & keep it up!!
@@esk8er900 Think of six D cell batteries, that's a Batcap. It literally is a small secondary battery. You can cut the case open at the seam and as long as you don't cut deep, you won't hurt anything. There aren't any drawbacks other than potentially the terminals if you overload them. As long as you adhere to their specs there is no downside to them. There is better on the market now though.
That’s all I needed to know- I think I’ll leave it in since it’s not hurting anything as I can see- thanks again- I’ll be on the lookout for the next video!!
Load balancing: The process of giving each device equal amounts of power. This means, in the case of the capacitors on the video: Each capacitor is charged equally by balancing the charge on each individual capacitor. This means that each of them receives exactly the same amount of power. In other words, is like charging them individually. Why this is important?? Imbalance between the capacitors(and also applies to battery)can cause imminent failure due to one capacitor(or cell) not charged, thereby rendering the uncharged capacitor useless; for a 5 cell and one of them will be imbalanced, only 4 cells are actually used! That causes overvoltage and, obviously, damage.
Also me an my friend are having discussion about dB gain in our burp cars Do caps gain dB ? In my car I run 2x oddesy 2150 + 120a alt + 1 bank of 6x 2.7v caps and I believe I seen a 0.1db gain however my friend swapped from alt and batts to just straight caps 5 banks of 6 cells 2.7v and he has seen 0.5db gain can you explain this please ??? I think it may be from efficient power to amp but unsure Thanks
You didn't have enough caps to really help, the batteries were bringing the caps down, sort of drawing from them as well. I found having 1 bank of caps for ever battery was about the point I would gain something like 0.4-0.5 dB. Then I took the batteries out and gained 1 dB I think it was. At the time I was dealing with about 26,000 watts with 8 XP3000's and 8 banks of caps and two 370 amp alternators. It all goes back to how quickly caps can deliver power and where that power is going along with resting voltage being higher.
EMF I did forget to mention which may make a big difference is this is all dB drag clamped classes so I run 2k clamp class and my friend runs 5k clamp class
Another nice vid. One point of contention from me though. Capacitance is not the same as capacity. Capacitance it the affect one plate has on the other. Capacity is the level of storage. While super caps have high capacitance, they have low capacity.
I haven't found a performance difference with temperature, but I also haven't tested in extreme cold or extreme heat. All my testing has been done between 60-100 degrees F. Different caps will have different specs on lifespan but the general consensus is 10 years without issue. The number of cycles will make this vary of course. In industrial uses these are typically rotated out of service after 4-5 years, working or not.
There is a logical reason to mix lithium and caps, and it is effective. Caps will give you a quicker discharge and some capacity but lithium would give you greater capacity in addition.
I'm presuming for musical application and with at least 1 high output alternator, you could possibly get away with 6 banks (or 3 of these emfcaraudio.com/products/xs-power-sb1000-31) but that will depend on how much power those mid amps are making too. The more banks you have, the better.
Hi, I see a lot of comments about supercaps together with lithium, so this might be a stupid question, but what about supercaps together with agm? And do I still need one bank per 2kw if I got some good batteries? And also, you said they drain over time. Would it ve smart to have an high amperage circuit breaker connected between supercaps and batteries in such a setup? And thanks for great videos!
There are also comments about caps with AGM. They will work with AGM, just not at the full potential, and the more AGM you have the more detriment you experience. I did say they drain over time, maybe I should have mentioned they drain slower than batteries. It's a VERY slow draw, like months for significance.
I'd take that capacitor out. For 2,500 peak and maybe 1,000 watts of actual real power being generated, I don't see a loss happening but not much of a gain if any.
You gotta realize even these 3,000farad caps have less capacity then your average Lifepo4 cell. So having a 12v 10f cap that's 1/50th of a set of 6 of these is just nothing. It's not enough to make a difference
I've never experienced that myself, at least not in a dangerous way. Perhaps over time they may last longer with balancing but I charge with appropriate voltage and I've never had an issue.
You can, however, when paired with AGM the benefits are reduced. You would only see a benefit putting the caps between the amp and battery. There comes a point where the battery is actually pulling the caps down. I experienced that with 8 XP3000's and 8 banks of caps. I took the batteries out and gained a few tenths, that was for a burp application though.
@@EMFAudio I don't know how well you know the layout of a Nissan extra cab but I could put the cap Banks in the extra cab Pockets where the seats go when they're folded up the batteries would be in the bed of the truck and the amps are going in the center console so we're talking maybe 3-6 feet at most of wire between each source so I'm thinking it goes batteries fuse caps another fuse then the amp.
Was going to use a Rockville 😂😂 50 farad cap. For my new build and just recieved the return label yesterday. Dont trust Rockville on anything at all. I do trust Emf and Skar.😁😎👍👍 Love the tech vids Keep em comin!
@@EMFAudio I know you guys dont see eye to eye. (I have heard rumors) I have recently gotten back into the audio stuff after kids and a long hiatus 😂. But why not if I may ask. I was meaning they dont (from my understanding) lie about power ratings and such. And honestly I trust EMF fully because they actually reply and speak to the public! I havent seen Skar do this.
You mean aside from making an entire business model based on poorly copying Sundown? Well, there is the failure to warranty things that weren't made well to begin with, and sending "recones" as loose parts in a box, and the undercutting dealers thing, the misleading customers and dealers by going down the Sundown dealer list and contacting all of them saying "It's the same as Sundown but cheaper". Oh, shafting vendors is a thing too. That's scratching the surface, not even touching the scams the owner ran before Skar or touching on some personal items that don't need to be discussed on RU-vid.
You know how shorting a battery makes a spark that can weld a wrench or screwdriver to the other surface? That, only way worse. It's also possible to make them explode shorting them.
Balancing Boards/Circuits Are Definatly Needed For Daily Use. Tons Of People Told Me You Don't Need Them And That When You Initially Balance The Caps They Will Stay Balance. WRONG. I Decided To Test This For Myself With My 8 Banks Of Six Super Caps. Balanced Them To The 100th Of A Volt (Extremely Time Consuming) Then I Charged Then Whole 8 Banks Up To 14.8V And Then Drained Down To 12.6V (Simulating When Car Shuts Off After Charging) Certain Caps Would Go Higher Than The Rest And After Enough Cycles They Would Get Dangerously High. Long Story Short You Absolutely Need Them For Daily Use To Compensate For Different Tolerances Of Each Cell.
Just got on the site to looks for "definitely xs power supercell" and saw that the Ermahgerd V2s are no longer on pre order and are officially for sale??! Are my eyes deceiving me?!!
@@EMFAudiowell damn 😭 I'm sure you get asked alot, but any clue when theyd ever be for sale? Or any way we can get an update? I've been looking but havent found anything, however that may also just be my doing
Or too large of enclosure. Talk about how a box is so important to end result bass that you r looking for and how to identify which woofer wood do what based on specs
@@EMFAudiowill music sound better giving the fact that its a burst of power, simulating a dynamic power environment. Will the voltage be better maintained? Can the trained ear really tell the difference?
I have heard that the original capacitors was also intended for or capable of reducing or filtering out noise a.k.a. engine noise. Is that true and if so would that also be true for these super caps. Could you do a video on that to see if that is factual or not,for an upcoming Tech Stuff Tuesday video?
Yes! They were first introduced to filter noise because amp technology wasn't where it is today with filtering on the power supply. But, also in those days it wasn't common to add batteries and high output alternators were limited so retailers (making heavy margins on them) also pushed them as energy storage and keeping your lights from dimming even though they didn't work well for that. Supercaps would do the same as all capacitors do, but the problem with me doing a video on that is I'd have to be able to generate noise. Everything I have is too clean, it won't generate noise for me do demonstrate nor would amps be really effected by it because of the advanced power supplies.
@@thinshadow6669 Hissing is usually something else in the system (if we're thinking of the same sound). The sound I'm thinking of doesn't change tone or matter if the car is running or not. It's usually a issue with the amp, a processor/EQ (if installed), bad RCA's, or the HU.
@@thinshadow6669 There is a small possibility it's the amp ground, not likely though. It could contribute to the ground loop you have. To me, no hissing is OK.
You can, but some of the added benefits of caps retaining a higher voltage you don't get if you have several AGM's and say 1 bank of caps. Or, if you have a bunch of caps and 1 AGM, the AGM can end up doing nothing for you.
@@EMFAudio I have 370 amp alternator,2 750 amp agm batteries 5 strips of 0 gauge for two hcca5000.1dv2 would 5 banks of five be a good add on,or maybe 7 banks of five
@@moabs10blowthru41 My goal is 1 bank per 1,000 watts, 2,000 watts per bank still works well but I wouldn't do more power per bank than that for daily use.
@@moabs10blowthru41 it's a ratio of banks to batteries, not a set number. 1:1 will benefit, but something like 3:1 cap banks (not cells) being greater you may actually lose performance from having batteries.
EMF Yea but I didn’t have a power supply and my battery charger wasn’t recognising the caps and blew fuses so putting the globe there I was able to hook the charger up and charge to 10ish volts then take globe out and normal charge took about an hr or so
@@jason28w What makes the most sense would be one of the cased XS Power units we have so it's already built and has load balancing. Buss bars and hardware can get expensive. emfcaraudio.com/collections/super-capacitors-1/products/xs-power-sb500-51 if you wanted to do 2 banks the group 31 case has that. Once you get into more than that, doing individual cells and building banks may or may not make sense for your application.
I got a flux capacitor on ebay. It gives a neater appearance only using one. And doesn't look like a case of beer cans sitting out bolted altogether. Only drawback is there crazy pricey if you can find one!
My car battery can draw 700amps with a 0.1 ohm load, thats over 8000 watts a 12v. I think car batteries are perfectly fine for a 2400 watt system. People say they run purely off their alternators but this is almost never the case, its all batteries with these 20K set ups, people put 1 x 370 amp alternator on and think they can run 10 - 20K but 14v x 370amps is only 5180 watts, and amplifiers are only give or take 80% efficient so thats only 4000 watt output. What ever the case anything over 2400 watts your wasting your time with batteries and alternators on 12v. I would just go straight to a 240v system, its a no brainier to me.
Most people are using less than half of "available" power every day anyway. Regardless, be it batteries or caps, they need to be charged. Whenever someone says they have 1 alternator on 20k for music and it's fine, they're realistically probably only actually using 3-4k for regular use. As for a different voltage system, there are a lot of reasons to not do that, but there are good reasons to be concerned with batteries and alternators with 2,400 watts.
Your comment about a loss of power at the amplifier makes no sense in theory.. Are you referring to voltage? If so, could you show us how that works. If your cable size is large enough between the amplifier and capacitor and the capacitor and your load up front , it should be the same voltage. Any voltage drop would be because of too small of a wire size and not a capacitor. I would love to see a real world test where you hook up an old-school one farad capacitor next to the amplifier With no resistance between the two of them , and check the actual voltage at that point and then also upfront at the alternator. Then do the test without the capacitor and let’s see the findings
Without a load it would be equal, the problem is with a load. When you deplete what's in the middle (be it a small battery, or insufficient capacitor), the power source now has to continue to power the device AND replenish what's in the middle. It's basically adding load and resistance in the circuit. But, a video I did 6 years ago..... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vTuJ7oz9g80.html
I just watched your other video. How was that a real world test when you were pulling a major load through what looks like 16 or maybe 14 gage wire ? Of course you will have a voltage drop. Let’s see the same test using four gauge cable throughout the entire load and use an amplifier for a dynamic load and not a static load.
@@tigeroftheeye7121 It's the same wire going to different things, I think you missed the point. It's not testing drop across the wire, it's showing drop from a different source.
To some it up, I need to supply 16k of power, all I want is 12.5v at idle, with it cranked, 2 ct sounds 7ks on 4 soundqubed 15s, for demos, and most important music for me, a kick drum, almost killed 1 amp all ready, seen 9.5 volts, before it went into protect, I do realize this video is old, but do to a back injury I've been out of the game for a couple of years, like to go the most efficient way, but I'm afraid I already know the answer, and it probably is all 3, mechman alt or 2, and a bunch of batts, only running 1 right now, and 1000 to the doors, with a 250amp alt, stock batt, and a 140ah agm , 5 runs of 1awg to the back, my brain hurts
(zero judgement) $65 each!? Ouch! I'll stick with my $30 2 Farad Sub-par Cap which the voltage LED display is worth the $30 alone =) Reality about car audio is it's not about what would be best, it's what's affordable =/
I did a video a long time ago about how those cheap electrolytic caps not only do nothing, but sometimes HURT performance. Yeah, you might actually get more power and more stable voltage out of your amp by taking that cap OUT. I've also seen those explode from having too big of an amp on them AND I've seen where a 2 farad cap actually had a 0.5 farad cap in the case. There is a reason it's $30.
Wow not trying to bash you BUT... you just said you get what you pay for and have that busted ass cheap drill sitting in the video LOL, other that that good video
There isn't a drill, nor a cheap one, nor busted anywhere in this video.... Just because it isn't a new Snap-On doesn't mean it's cheap or not good. That's a Craftsman 1/2" impact and it does quite well.
@@EMFAudio sorry, I posted that before I finished the video, from behind it looks like a harbor freight special, also started post with not trying to bash you
