The Illusion of Peace in Mamoru Oshii's Patlabor 2 

The quote is from the site Tv tropes when they tag Patlabor with "Post-cyberpunk"

@@ruhurtin4squrtin34 Ah, but I was merely expressing my subjective experience, in which by then, brought me anew to the context of Oshii's critique. My comment had not yet entered the discourse itself

Thanks for that observation friend. Definitely adds an extra layer for the media for us westerners to understand better.

I'm not from Japan, but I know this "chorf" you said about. I'm from Poland, haven't lived in the period of PRL (the time when Soviet Russia owned Poland) and the scenes of tanks patroling streets of cities remind me of the photos from those days.

My favourite part of that silent montage? The mecha pilot waving to schoolchildren, while his gun-camera tracks his eye movement. I've always found that image particularly haunting.

New resolution makes it for the un peacekeepers now to "shoot back" if they are being shot at, MINUSCA in Mali is basically a un and french controlled anti insurgency operation

I still wonder why they put such a heavy ROE on combat troops,might as well send police officers for PKO

@@professionaldisappointment1654 they did it in Sudan I think, in the Darfur region

@@willywampus3426 ouh this is cool,thanks for the knowledge

I prefer that to a UN that does pick sides. Grass is always greener.

I love that montage of the city under siege with the tanks among the city while the season moves from fall to winter. For me, the best shot is of one lone tank in a snow covered parking lot , foot prints in the foreground but a circle of untouched snow around the tank. Every other scene is commentary about martial law but this is the actual subject in one image. Military in private life, untouched by nature... literally in the case of bathroom breaks.

@@tskmaster3837 The city wasn't "under siege" though. The very point was that it became a normal scene and people grew used to it after the first day or two.

@@tskmaster3837 It's technically incorrect to call it a 'siege'.

@@icipher6730 It is as much a siege as the Cold War was a war. And the correlation between the two was intentional.

pat2 has better animation than gits 95 although point of movie is pointless.

One of the main reasons I return to these classic films time to time. Animation and design like this just breathes skill and love for the craft.

Pffff dying art? Are you joking me?

@@laos85 Cel animation is a dying art. It's cheaper for studios to use digital rather than Cel.

@@kurisu3000 And can you blame them.

@@kurisu3000 cel animation or digital hand drawn animation only dies in a lazy company.

kudos. but the animation is why pat2 is amazing. even better than gits 95

I see you're subscribed to CTH :)

I was just a peace time conscript but i absolutely agree. There is a deeper level in this movie most people cant quite resonate with. It is my favourite movie.

@@jb76489 He isn't

jb76489 okay kid

*93

Reminds me of 9/11 being an #InsideJob as well... and that was in 2001AD! Aerial attack on multiple Western Infrastructure/"War on Terror" and all...🤷🏿‍♂ President Dick Cheney starting fake wars against CIA operatives from 1980s, specifically for US Military/Corporate/Civilain profit gains... #DystopiaNow

aged like wine indeed

Even more so in 2023, with Japan starting on what looks to be a significant re-armament program that will make them a regional military powerhouse if all goes as planned.

After the wars in Ukraine and Gaza, this movie feels more realistic; our peace is indeed built on bloodshed.

Thank for sharing that bit of thought. I also have that same sentiment, despite coming from the angle of localized social outcast. Honestly, sometimes I wonder if such contempt is justified, because in the end I'm just as powerless to make a difference. Feels a bit like a hypocrite who can only walk backwards in defiance...

Same director too!

Took a couple us government related classes, during highschool and collage currently. Long story short, they are just as fuck up, but on different issue. One big problem is in order to change the bad stuff, you need the people benefiting from the bad stuff vote to change the bad stuff (aka vote against themself), yea good luck on that.

@@jintsuubest9331 too bad that they dont reach you that you dont live in a democracy. You live in a fake democracy where rural states gets 3 times the electoral votes per person that the most populous states. Good old America.

I think it's more likely due to Mamoru Oshii's films being full of swollen, pretentious philosophical debate.

Ghost in the Shell definitely has similar themes, and is kind of an anxious look at what might happen if the facade of false peace were to slip completely, and Japan couldn't even fall back on being a subordinate of the US.

It does, with painful accuracy

I believe it was made as a response to the Fukushima nuclear disaster, which was widely criticized for feet dragging and endless committees.

though it has some positive tone, with that cabinet resignation beam

Shin Godzilla is not a Kaiju film like people thought We need to see it as a Monster vs Monster film : An evolving monster in flesh form Vs an evolving monster of bureaucracy

Interesting Akira, which also becomes a kaiju film, features a corrupt useless bureaucracy in charge of the city, and then a military coup. Lots of common themes

underrated for sure

yes. i have been telling gits 95 fans that...at least animation wise.

TBH, ghost in the shell 2 was way better than the first. Oshii just has a habit of making amazing sequels that trump their first movie

It is possibly the best action anime out there.

agree. Oshii's personal best.

@@FauxtakuLounge Patlabour 1, War In The Pocket, Wings of Honneamise, Gunbuster("Ender's Game"-inspired?), Jin Roh: Wolf Brigade, Cannon Fodder(Memories anthology), GitS: SAC, and Cowboy Bebop Movie; also have insane military action sequences with brutal character context... PL2 is definitely Oshii's best work.

Jakub Badełek well that is an interesting take. i think you are right that must be an influence as well.

> we had marshal law in my country (Poland) many years ago (before I was born), with similar scenes of tank on the streets, except it wasn't so nice for the people... Let me guess: The marshal law imposed by Gen. Wojciech Jaruzelski against the people of Poland in an effort to crush the anti-communist Solidarity trade union, right?

you're right, man

6/10 Damn. You're active this new year. Anyway, old meme.

War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines.

Kantai Collection

Alone the WW1, WW2, and, of course, the Cold War truly show how much war itself has changed. There are also the Geneva Protocol that "bans" certain weapons. We literally try to make war morally humane. Even the use of soldiers varies: Child soldiers and bad planning(lots of unnecessary death) is frowned upon. Different weapon skills. Different ways to die. Globalisation is making the enemy more human... Terrorism. "War never changes" is a stupid way to see it. We are humans, we adapt.

i found it better than gits 95 which states had a higher budget but looks cheaper..ie see background high rises.

Very well said. Heinlein also put it well: “Anyone who clings to the historically untrue -- and -- thoroughly immoral doctrine that violence never solves anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler would referee. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms.” Sadly, breeds like the author of this video, and traitors like Oshii, that would rather see Japan conquered and put under the yoke of a foreign power just to virtue signal, never get to experience the consequences of their idiocy because braver, better men spill blood to defend their right to be imbeciles.

Thanks, I was going to post something similar.

The Heinlein quote is actually the point of the movie, moron

@@elgerifico The concept of nation state itself is a rather recent one, and I think it is quickly losing its significance in history.

adding to this, i would prefer a world where everyone is accountable to for their own violence instead of displacing it for other people to carry out for them, and then feeling beholden to the people who are violent for them. this is how police and army forces are created. how power is concentrated, and abused. there will always be violence in the world, I’d just prefer a world where we don’t professionalize it (through the creation of military and police careers)

That's one of the best fighter jet sceens in all of cinema

mostly because japan have great source of story . they publish it in novel or manga. there are many other manga and novel that don't have anime .because the story is not about spirited boy have super power. patlabor is one of the franchise that lucky enough get anime

Exact same here...

Yeah unfortunately

#DystopiaNow

​@@ynraider humans: destructive beasts of war and monsters without a heartbeat -me

Ohhh interesting. I'll have to check this out.

I'm going to check that out right now! Thank you for the tip mate...

Is it available in English as i don't speak any other language

That intro. Wow :-)

If you are ready to go back as far as the '30s, there are more than 200 movies made with the same creative intensity. It takes a while to find them out because most list are full of overbloated oscar-bait or underwritten "audience favorites".

@@DrummerDucky Yeah i know there are countless gems hidden under the sands of time, but that is why it is always a welcome when our favorite youtubers talk about them :D

@@Zheesh7349 Did you get the time to watch Patlabor 2 since then? I find that watching a movie every day is one of many ways to keep one's mind "exercised"!

@@DrummerDucky Yeah I finally watched it. My expectations weren't low after this video, but it toppled them with ease. It is indeed a fantastic movie!

Oshii's argument on "just war, unjust peace" is bit muddled (it's a recurring issue with his writings) but man. the art direction, the music, the character interactions (especially Gotoh) are so mesmerizing, I can't help but watch it again and again every year that goes by, much like the 1995 Ghost in the Shell, or the infamous Ninja Scroll.

You really like that fuckin word don't ya Ask someone to beat you with a thesaurus sometime Good comment though

@@KingHalbatorix What word are you talking about? I didn't see anything wrong with his comment, but you seem upset?

Tom J I think he was referring to the word disavowal, although I do not understand his frustration in your use of it.

Just curious, how would you make Japan today be accountable for the atrocities of the past. What would you make them do? Japan has apologized many times over the years for they did. The hard fact is, atrocities are happening now and will continue to happen and life will go on.

L.E. Munoz reparations to the people and countries they harmed. reparations to all the women (and their descendants) forced into their “comfort woman” program Long term monetary payments towards the countries they did harm to

Fun Fact: Miyazaki is a naive asshole with dubious critical thinking skills. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BfxlgHBaxEU.html Then again, this is the same man that talks down to otakus and derides their behavior and actions... While in the same interview he plays with toy aircraft. After having made a film on the A6M Zero and the designer of it. After having a lifelong fascination with aviation. Cognitive dissonance personified.

@@armamentarmedarm1699 Cognitive dissonance does not stop hypocrisy, where the hell did you get that notion? FFS, hypocrisy is the USUAL OUTCOME of cognitive dissonance because you're holding two conflicting beliefs. And since some people just can't take a hit to their ego coughMiyazakicough, they would rather be hypocritical than admit fault.

That's like father telling his son that his views of war are foolish

@@armamentarmedarm1699 _"You've got it backwards"_ I'm sorry, but this is rather circular logic. You're claiming that because of a nearly "if, then" programmed response way of how cognitive dissonance works that you are "immunized" from hypocrisy... even if you were being hypocritical because of your cognitive dissonance. I think you need to re-examine your theory here, because it doesn't make sense and doesn't hold up in the real world. _"Holding two contradictory beliefs is not cognitive dissonance."_ And as far as the literary (and not medical/psychological) definition, it is literally just that: "the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change." _"It prompts the person experiencing it to either abandon, change, or rationalize one or more of the beliefs."_ Or do nothing. Or even deny that reality is a thing. Cognitive dissonance does not prompt one to do one of these things. It is not a programmed response. Some people react in a logical and mentally healthy way to having it. Some... don't. Others don't even acknowledge or even realize it or even deny it. _"That is to say, if you're gonna stop being a hypocrite, it'll be cognitive dissonance that makes you do it."_ Then by your own words what you're saying is irrelevant to anything I said because I claimed that Miyazaki was a hypocrite and that he was suffering from cognitive dissonance because he wasn't addressing it properly. Again, you're kinda proving my point that cognitive dissonance does not stop hypocrisy. Because, by your own claims, if it did then Miyazaki wouldn't be holding toy airplanes while talking about his new film on airplanes while shit-talking people that are fans/enthusiasts in some sort of hobby... like say, I dunno, aviation. Miyazaki holds two contradicting viewpoints. And, for some reason, he feels no discomfort about being a plane/aviation otaku while talking down to otakus for the same thing he bad mouths them for. Meaning he's being hypocritical. Because he's not dealing with his cognitive dissonance. Or, like I mentioned earlier, doesn't even realize he holds conflicting viewpoints or doesn't acknowledge it. Never, ever doubt the human mind's ability to protect the self and/or ego. Make no mistake, Miyazaki is experiencing cognitive dissonance. You and me simply disagree whether he's "suffering from" cognitive dissonance and if it's a problem.

@@armamentarmedarm1699 _"Every argument you've just tried to make relies on misunderstanding what cognitive dissonance is."_ That's some hilarious lack of self-awareness when your own argument was torpedoed just now by your own words. I'm sorry, but if anyone here doesn't understand cognitive dissonance... it's you. Now if you have nothing of substance to add (and I'm sure you don't when you destroy your own arguments and don't even offer rebuttals or defenses), feel free to see yourself out.

The difference is that America realizes what it is doing, and is moving forward with eyes open, while others are trying to trick themselves. War is sometimes a necessary evil, as is hegemony. Especially in a world where Powers with far less benign intentions feel the same. Only those on our far left politically pretend not to understand this. Canada tries to walk a more middling road, yet even often deploys their military alongside ours, criticizing our relative social benefits without acknowledging the lukewarm commitment of allies is what allows them to spend less on the military and more on social programs.

@@DeathToJihad Your username is a contradiction in terms. So I'm going to ignore your overly warmongering comment.

@@DeathToJihad The US spends more on the military because the military industrial complex owns Washington and the need for spending more on defense to appear strong has become such a moral cornerstone of politics that the government is shutdown. Do not put the bill on social programs.

@@NathanGatten, It's only a contradiction if you view conflict like a spider's web. Personally, I get the impression you'd simply rather not engage in a complex philosophical debate, and that's why you'd rather hide behind dismissive and empty slurs like 'warmonger'.

@@LuizAlexPhoenix, I'd strongly disagree with that assessment, as it's overly simplistic, and discounts entirely the dimension of geopolitics in favor of economic conspiracy theories. If our allies spent more, we'd spend less, and spend more on social programs. It's the exact reason they don't want to spend more.

Glad you mentioned 86 Eighty Six. Wish it would get more recognition.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-r2sqdudEle4.html

One thing the defense force spook talked about to goto, the Hollywood chewing gum war, that is what I am trying to find out what he is talking about, there is cold war, civil wars, but Hollywood chewing gum war?

I agree

Don’t you just love the main theme? :-)

It's this and MGS1 for me. So atmospheric

Given the recent situation, Article 9 will be moot.

did you think animation better than gits 95? and was it remastered?

you know the guy grow during the reconstruction of the second world war

You can only think that if you think 1980's and 1990's Japan is an example of a false peace. A truly unjust peace is worse than war, and often has more casualties. If you want an actual example of an unjust peace today, take a look at what is going on in Venezuela right now.

The most obvious example of false peace is the United States of America. This nation's entire existence and prosperity has been because of either war or "false peace" - the threat of war. This is why American police are militarized and brutal, why the United States repeatedly overthrows governments and installs dictators via coups and threats of invasion, why the US military is directly involved in over 30 conflicts in dozens of nations around the globe at any time, why the USA has 900 military bases worldwide and responds to even the slightest threat against it with overwhelming violence. The motto of the USA is simply "Comply or Die".

Oh good grief, please spare us your complete lack of historical perspective.

@Sternia Hoenheim Why would you want to nuke the poor Mexicans who are already suffering from drug cartels and rampant crime? (I'm just making fun of the fact that the term America applies to more than just the United States)

The japanese are a lot more self aware of this problem than americans, so i'm pretty sure the public would fail to understand the meaning of such a movie, unfortunately.

Americans already realize this, and largely embrace it, aside from some ideological holdouts. It's others who seem to have a problem with it, without realizing the lack of a viable alternative. It's easy to criticize when you aren't holding the reigns.

Yep, America however, will maintain peace by deterrence. NK and China are antagonistic to the Asian geopolitics besides, the president after WW II initiated a defense. It is archaic I’ll give you that but until Kim and CCP stand down from revisionist jeopardizes the global order. Russia poses no threat but that can change. In short, Japan is in a volatile backyard. America as flawed must honor her pledge because even South Korea distrusts Tokyo.

@@ErikPT "Antagonistic to Asian geopolitics" according to whom? The Americans? Please. Most countries in Asia don't see Chinese hegemony as any worse than American. The threat they pose to China is and the risk they face is predicated on the American soldiers they garrison. As for Kim, North Korea is the USA's most vital resource in the region -- a permanent frozen conflict that justifies the presence of American troops on the Asian continent and a divided Korea that isn't fully sovereign. How might Korea's national interests change in the absence of an existential fraternal threat? Why would a unified Korea contribute to containment of a resurgent China? Thus, the US needs NK, which is precisely why it works so hard to torpedo any peace talks that might happen. Who knows what's best for Japan, but it's ludicrous to think of it as a truly "pacifist" country. It's America's biggest springboard in Asia, it's the trapdoor that locks China and the Russians in the Pacific. In foreign policy terms, is it truly sovereign?

😅how old??

@@venomsnakeYGBSM Somewhere between fire and dirt, www.

War is part of human nature

We'll just wage war against aliens and other humans at the same time

Even with ET, it'll just another one's interest. Remember, you can sacrifice your own closest ally when you found that interest. Friends and foes are just nothing when interest comes to play.

Its the F-15 Active concept plane that came out and quickly retired around the production of this film. It was a cool looking plane, one i personally loved as a kid in the 90's so I'm glad it's there

This comment didn't age well

​@@47ex1This comment did aged well