The reason why the 3-5-2 and the 3-4-2-1 variant are so popular in Italy is none other than Gasperini, he's been wildly overperforming with Genoa first and then Atalanta for years. Also you can easily trace a lineage of coaches who worked under him and then went on to be successful, for example Ivan Juric (Torino, Verona). Now you have Sottil with Udinese again overperforming with a 3-5-2 and he is also a Gasperini admirer. If you watch the games you will see that each team interpret the formation very differently depending on the key players which are the fullbacks. Teams with very fast and hard working fullbacks will switch to 5-3-2 during non-possession and to 3-3-4 on counter-attacks, some teams have a more offensive fullback and a more defensive one or one fullback who is good at attacking the goal and another who is good at crosses.
@@superdemmy1038 Ok let me elaborate, I think Conte is a great coach. In absolute terms more successful than Gasperini. In relative terms it is very debatable: Conte achieved success with big clubs, Gasperini took an eternal midfield/relegation team in Atalanta and made it a powerhouse both in nationally and internationally. In terms of influence I don't think it's close, the only big teams that use 3-5-2 are the ones directly touched by Conte: Inter and sometimes Juventus. Roma also uses a 3-5-2 variant but Mourinho eventually settled on it more out of necessity than an actual vision. In smaller teams the 3-5-2 spread like wildfire because it is seen as good bet for weaker teams. You have quite a few coaches directly or indirectly influenced by Gasperini: Juric, Tudor, Sottil, Palladino. Also a few coaches who rely on the tradional defensive interpretation like Mazzarri and Mihailovic.
@@PineConeShamanGaming I remind you that Conte took the very first Juventus to the victory with a quite mediocre team and he overperformed with Italan team at EURO 16 with a team way less competitive compared to the nowadays Italian national.
I think that formations are misleading in modern football. They are really only starting positions. I would focus more on roles since players will rotate on and off the ball and managers switch formations during the game to counter opposition tactics.
Really great and interesting video. I knew the 3-5-2 is popular in the serie a, as I watch a lot of games but these statistics are showing that it is even more than I tought. But one thing is missing imo, I know it is really hard to analyse it, but a lot of these formations can change when the team is in posession. The 4-2-3-1 for example can be a 3-4-3 in posession or a 3-3-3-1 etc. Would be interesting to see these statistics with the attacking formations. Still amazingly done!
Of course, this is limited in the sense that it only accounts for the "official" line-up of the match. I'll definitely try and figure out how to better track the changes
@@FootballMeta That would be so good! Keep up the good work man! Also, I hope they will change these "official" line ups in the future. I think they should use the "attacking formation" instead, it is way more fitting for the modern football imo.
True, for example in Serie A players like Cuadrado or Dumfries can often swap between side defender, side midfielder or offensive winger in the same match depending on the situation.
That happens a lot in football even at lower levels. The team i play for (amateur county level) we play a 4-2-3-1 but in our attacking phase it's a 3-3-3-1 where usually me the RB has to stay back in a quasi back 3 whilst the other fullback pushes. Arsenal do this a lot.
First of all, great video. Regarding serie A, as an Italian living abroad, my comments are: 1) 352 has been extremely popular for 20 years especially within weaker teams, its interpretation has always been a very defensive one, and Conte was seen as a revolution right because he was able to give a new sense to this formation 2) 433 is still seen as THE FUTURE. Serie A became great with 442, for 15 years or so it seemed impossible to play with a different formation (famously, Ancelotti did not want Baggio at Parma as he thought he would not be able to fit his 442 having chiesa and crespo already upfront; of course, a smart man as Ancelotti now regrets his decision), when Barcelona came up with their 433 we were all ecstatic, and basically, after over 10 years, we are still there, sarri's 433 is still seen as something from a different planet 3) 4231 is seen as a tool of the past, and I am very surprised that Milan uses it (and won with it). In Italy, it is still linked to Real Madrid's galacticos and Mourinho's inter. In 2010, after inter's treble, this formation was so highly regarded that Lippi felt forced to play with it at the world cup, using Marchisio as Snaijder: it was a disaster, and i believe it has had a bad reputation since then. Surprisingly, even Mourinho's Roma is not using it, even if he would have on paper the perfect players for it. With all this said, your analysis is very interesting as it shows one little detail among the many that shows why now serie a is the least innovative league of all, an extremely sad end for the League that had been at the top of the pyramid for basically 40 years.
@@danielhackett1581 you missed the point. Baggio never played for Ancelotti. Parma's board was about to buy him, but Ancelotti said "no, I have no place for him on the pitch". We are way over zola at this point ☺️
Antonio Conte's Juventus team was one of my favourite teams to watch. At a time when 2 men upfront was getting phased out he found a way to make it work, Lichtsteiner and Asamoah were incredibly hard working and did the job of 2 players. So much so they were substituted often. I also love to see the extra man in defence whilst in possession. There was always an option for a pass. Great channel mate
That's true, in defend the wing-backs would also help defending making the formation went to 5-3-2. While counter-attacking, those wing-backs will go high to help the midfield making the formation changing to 3-5-2
@@farhi411 That is disregarding zonal or 1v1 pressuring or traps and triggers. Over simplifying the defensive phase of football. 3 man defense is just having 1 man as a safety net to defend your shoulders nothing more nothing less. It is just an interpretation.
i have problem with this analysis as team nowadays use 2-3 formations in the game like Arsenal it is 4231 on paper but attacking with 235 or 325 similarly they def in 4141 or 5212 ( like the last game vs Liverpool) but great videos keep it up
Man City used the classic 2-3-5 for (most of a) game recently. Barca often used this formation, (in reality if not theory) when Pep played and managed there. I look forward to hearing him say, "Yes, it's 2-3-5". Recent talk about "Number 6"s or "Number 8"s also harks back to the half backs and inside forwards of the 2-3-5 era.
This is a stereotype...if you see Atalanta, (and Gasperini used 352 way before Conte who began his career with a 424), Udinese, Verona last year, Torino, they play really an attacking football, so it is not a question to defend.
In serie A I think the goalsx90 stat may be a little skewed. Being the most popular formation how many games were played where it was 352vs352? This would naturally inflate the goals scored stat while also double counting and defeating the goals conceded. Been a while since I’ve done some statistical inference but I think it would be cool to maybe dive into 352 vs other formations rather than against itself. Loved the vid btw!
Diego Simeone is indeed known for his consistent and successful managerial career, especially with Atlético Madrid. However, when it comes to scoring the most goals in football history, the record is held by players, not managers. Diego Simeone's Achievements Managerial Success: Simeone has been highly successful with Atlético Madrid, leading the team to multiple domestic and European titles. His tactical approach has often been characterized by strong defensive organization and effective counter-attacking football. 10-0-0 Record: While Simeone has achieved remarkable consistency in his managerial career, his record in specific seasons or competitions, such as a 10-0-0 run, reflects his ability to maintain high performance over time. Top Scorers in Football History The record for the most goals scored in football history is held by players, not managers. Here are some of the top goal-scorers: Cristiano Ronaldo Total Goals: Over 900 goals in official matches Remark: Ronaldo holds the record for the most goals scored in international matches and has an impressive tally in club football. Lionel Messi Total Goals: Over 900 goals in official matches Remark: Messi has scored a significant number of goals for both FC Barcelona and Paris Saint-Germain, as well as for Argentina. Josef Bican Total Goals: Over 800 goals in official matches Remark: Bican's goal-scoring record is recognized as one of the highest in football history, with a prolific career in the mid-20th century. Pele and Diego Maradona Total Goals: Both are celebrated for their remarkable goal-scoring abilities, with records often cited in the range of 700-800 goals, depending on the count of official matches. Conclusion While Diego Simeone has been incredibly consistent and successful as a manager, the record for the most goals scored in football history belongs to players like Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi. Simeone's contribution to football is notable for his managerial prowess and tactical expertise rather than goal-scoring records.
I've always been a fan of the 4-3-3 as it can morph into a 4-2-3-1 as the game speed dictates. Having a CAM that can sit at the top of the box or make a run in towards goal allows you a mix of 4 attacking players that push opponents back allowing the other midfielders to push forward to reset plays without a huge risk of being easily beaten on a counter. The biggest denominator of good 4-3-3's are wingers that will drop back to play some defense then have the speed to make a quick counter run once the ball is won back. A big issue I've seen from teams that run this is the wingers not supporting the full backs on defensive duties or the counter attack slowing down to a more possession style of play allowing opposing teams time to regroup on defense closing down the attack. 4-3-3's become easy to defend if the fall into a possession style so teams have to be ready to push quickly on takeaways to benefit the most from the formation.
Interesting video, but I think looking at formation alone is not enough because players move out of their position in different phases of the game. Yes, you can start with a 4-2-3-1. But once the game starts your full back may drift into the middle your 8 may move up. The formation becomes 3-2-4-1. During the attack phase your midfielders may make runs into the box your full back may make overlapping run and the formation will be like 2-3-5.
Serie A is the most competitive league right now, the managers mainly use some variations of 3-5-2, except M. Sarri, M, Allegrri and most notably right now L. Spalletti (the SSC Napoli manager), Spalletti knows how to use his team to perfection (especially in the UCL), Sarri is doing a good job at Lazio and Allegrri is good, but he doesnt know how to use his good (on paper) Juventus side
All teams have two systems during a game, in possession and defending. Please make a video showing mostg used system in possesion and defending. As an example, yesterday Barcelona used 4-5-1 defenging vs Inter and 3-4-3 in possesion.
I like using a 3-3-3-1 or 3-6-1 from Guus Hiddink's 2006 Australia side. 3-6-1 is in FIFA terms essentially a 3-4-2-1 with two CAMs rather than outright forwards and two CDMs. The 3-3-3-1 is essentially a 3-4-3 where the wing backs invert and defend in a line with the CDM, a 10 and wingers in the attacking line behind the striker.
This is a silly question, to ask which is the best formation... It is like asking which is better, scissors, papers or stone. They all counter each other.
More reasons why 3-5-2 is more popular in Serie A and they even use it in Champions league games : - It make the right and left backs be more offensive since the extra center back helps them cover more ground - You dont need wingers or inverted wingers , you have the “Right and Left wing backs” that acts more of a support on defensive and offensive - Working it out correctly , you strike a good balance between attacking and defending since if you over commit , any counter attack can be devastating and if you attack you have enough people going forward and enough to cover - Also this works very well when opponents try to play vertical and from the middle , meaning that ball recovery , interceptions and anticipating the rival is easier. - Furthermore this can be morph to other formations in the video such as the 3-4-2-1 , 5-3-2 , and the 3-4-3
I started with a 442, tried a 433, switched to a 4231 last season, then a 3142 this season...high school level...just all depends on skill and ability of my players...be willing to adapt...
On 3-5-2 formation the wide midfilelders also can be used as wide defenderce and that provide high efficiency but requires LB/LM and RB/RM with high pace and stamina.
I think a lot of it has to do with the style the Italians do compared elsewhere. It's different. A lot of Italian coaches don't like 2 man midfields it's fundamental to their tactics to have at least 3 midfielders
Great video. I know all the information won’t be out there but it would be intriguing to compare this to a different era. 2005 for example where 4-4-2 was the dominant choice.
I wished if you illustrated these statistics with the addition of home and away because it could facilitate if it was used attackingly or defensively as you know a formation like 352 could have a variety of shapes based on the roles of the wingers
3-5-2 was so such a controversy omg, every Inter fan attacked conte every fucking time, if we conceded a goal then it was the fornation fault, im grateful that we passed that dark period
Conte just reintroduced the 3-5-2 formation. This formation was quite popular in the '90s, although slightly different approach. It is popular because of Italian's Catenaccio culture aka Defensive-Pragmatic Football. Typical Catenaccio formation consisting of 3 CB (in the past the central CB was Sweeper), 2 FB/WB for providing width, 2 CMF/CDM(one as Box-to-Box & one as Regista/anchorman), 1 AMF (Playmaker/Fantasista/Trequartista), 1 SS (usually fast-pace player) & 1 CF (Targetman/Goal poacher). The difference is Conte's Midfield doesn't consist of AMF, but 2 CMF and 1 CDM.
This is interesting but I have to say many different formations are basically the same as each other and also there are plenty of teams/managers that shift around their formation throughout the game depending on many factors; so with this in mind I wonder how exactly they determine all these statistics because it seems tough to keep accurate
Yeah of course this just looks at the starting line ups as they are announced, it would be interesting to see how the fluidity of these lineups could change a game, not sure how to analyse that though lol
Nice descriptives to understand the leagues! However, little can be said here about causality. There is a huge confounding variable here. 4-3-3 is often the most favoured playing style by top contenders in a league. So then naturally the statistics will gear towards high performance for that playing style.
3 men defence is very common in Italy... Conte set the new trend with Juventus and brought it to England during his tenure in Chelsea. But his approach is way more simple than what it meets the eye. Compact defence, tight defensive lines, low pressure and lightning counterattack. Gasperini and Juric are far more dynamic in their offensive approach than Conte, and rely on high and intense pressing, as well as man marking in open spaces. Sottil style is also an offspring of Gasperini. Mazzarri, the first italian tactician to trademark 3-5-2, plays like Conte. Anyway, formations change during the games, according to the phase...
This is an interesting analysis, in my opinion there are (surprisingly) no ultra defensive teams in serie a this year, even the sides from serie b seem to be trying to play their own brand of football instead of just sitting back and hoping for counter attacks. This seems to be a trend in Italy, evidenced by newly promoted sides in previous years like Empoli, Venezia and Spezia. And on top of that the teams who play negative "catenaccio" football like Genoa were recently relegated.
433 has and always will be my favorite formation. So versitile, so dynamic, and unpredictable A defender shielding the defence with two free 8s being able to take up attacking roles creating a 3-2-5 in attack. And 4-4-2 in defence
433 can be awesome but I feel that you really need great players especially on offense to make it work, the number 8s are the key for creating, otherwise the no 9 can be a bit lonely up there, for me I always liked 3-5-2 the most especially if you have good wing backs, gives you more options even with mediocre players while the defense can be rock solid with this extra man in the back, it always worked the most for my fav Club and can make opponents struggle who are not that used to 3/5 in the back
4-2-3-1 I find to be very boring as a system. It is not that much different to a 4-4-2 if you consider that both central midfielders stay back, the wingers go forward and invert and one striker drops deep into midfield. But truely most 4 at the back systems can be flexible into each other just with a couple of players changing the a role slightly. 3 at the back formations can also blend into each other as well. Unless Johan Cruyff is your manager switching between 3 and 4 at the back constantly seems a lot harder based on personel. Also the only reason to keep changing is to catch the other team out on not knowing what they should be doing to counter whatever a new system is throwing at them. Expecting the WM system to come back any season soon.
interesting analysis but I have to say I don't think we can draw very strong conclusions from this data set. Having see how formations are often codified erroneously it's hard to trust the accuracy of this data and, beyond that, what formation are the best teams even playing these days? City and Arsenal both sort of play 433, but in defence it's more like 4231/442 or sometimes 4141 depending on pressing structures. Once the team is building up the 433 shape is clear before becoming something more like 235 during sustained pressure. Analysing football on the basis of how the broadcaster arranges the player icons before the match is becoming less relevant I would argue.
There is a problem when you explain your data: you need to exclude games between teams with the same formation so you can measure how each formation perfoms against another.
Great video, would like to see these stats in the champions league or stratified by top half vs bottom half of the table. I think certain formations can hide some players’ deficiencies. 4-3-3 is a superior formation when the 3-3 are exceptional players. Also has the 4-4-2 become completely obsolete? I would love to see a team dominate playing 4-4-fookin-2
4-4-2 has about a 6.9% use rate in Europe, so pretty low considering how popular it was just a few years ago. It would be very interesting to see champions League and bottom Vs top, I'll add that to the database, thanks 🙏
@@FootballMeta looking forward to watch that video! I like how you’re using data to make sense of the beautiful game. A caveat I can think of is some teams would field a certain formation on paper but play a different one in practice. I think this was common with many 4-4-2’s back in the day where they would morph into a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. It would be interesting to see how well player starting position correlates with their heat map by the end of the match.
The formation as we know it is nothing more than a view of the team's XI. It all depends on the tactics and the way that players are used. For example, let's take the 4-3-3. In offence, it can be a 2-3-5 or 3-2-5, it can be 4-1-4-1 if the wingers get back in line with the two cm, it can be a 4-5-1 if the wingers get in straight line with the two cm and the cdm, it can be a 3-4-3 if the cdm becomes a third cb, it can be a 4-2-3-1 if one cm plays higher like a cam or it can be a 4-4-2 (or 4-2-4) if he plays even higher (of course there are a lot of other ways that those formations can be seen). So for me, the most dangerous formation is the one that your players can fit into.
LOL 433 is used as frequently in Serie A as a 352. Milan play a 4231 always. Also, you say Serie A teams don't use a 4321. Well the difference between a 4321 and a 433 is often open to interpretation, and depends on how someone sees a player play versus what it says on the teamsheet. Sorry but further research and disclaimers are needed in this video
can we consider the most dangerous formation to the formation that small teams play against top teams, I mean high winrate formation that has been used from lower when they are facing top teams, and that means this information is dangerous to play against for the top teams, and we can consider the opposite with "what is the highest formation's winrate that top teams use against low teams
How do you define what formation a team is using? There is an ultra-thin line between a 4-3-3 and a 4-5-1, or between a line of 3 defenders and a line of 5. Furthermore, there is a huge difference between what a manager plans and what actually happens on the pitch, such as wingers helping de fullbacks close to their box, or defensive midfielders joining the atack as a second stricker. Also usually you have asymmetric formations that are hard to define (e.g. an attacking right fullback joins the midfield, almost as a winger, while a more defensive-minded left fullback stays back, turning a 4-3-3 into a 3-4-3 when in possession)
Very interesting! Just subscribed! Can you do special analys on the Serie A teams this season? You can choose in which area the research will be made in ⚽️
You cannot interpret the statistics the way you do. For example: of course 4-3-3 is statistically the most dangerous formation in La Liga because the best teams (Real & Barca) use it. It's not the formation that is better, it's the players. Despite that it doesn't make much sense to distinguish between formations like 3-4-2-1 and 3-4-3 (+ maybe 3-2-4-1 and 5-2-3) because they are basically the same thing in reality. While defending the formation of a team with a back 3 might look like 5-2-3 or 5-4-1 but while attacking it might look like a 3-2-4-1.
I agree, this only accounts for what's written on the starting line up before the match, and doesn't account for tactical shifts. However this video was not meant to be related to tactics in any way. Regarding what you say about Barca and real using the 433, do you think there's a reason the best teams use this line-up?
What if a team has an offensive and defensive formation in the same game? It doesn’t sound like you took this into account although some big teams defend with 4 in the back, only to attack with 3 in the back in an adjusted formation?
Sure, teams can change formation during the match depending on the situation, I'm not sure how to include something like that in this research that wouldn't make it extremely time consuming haha
@@FootballMeta Do you think Liverpool has started to play with Formation 4-2-3-1 or klopp a bit reluctant to move to other formations ?today vs Rangers played 4-3-3 and won 7/1.
Italy does not produce enough fast wide players for a 4-2-3-1 to be functional. Actually if you take Juventus the season where Allegri switched to 4-3-3 was the one the team became noticeably worse. The irony is that any time a manager struggles (again, I'll take Allegri as the example) there are shouts for him to switch to 3 men in central defence as if this is a panacea. But most Serie A titles since the late 1980s have been won by teams playing with a flat backline of 4, Conte in the recent decade is the sole exception. In European football the results of 3-5-2 and 3-4-3 are even worse. What is truly messed up in Italian football right now is that the flexibility of people like Lippi and Ancelotti - capable of varying their formations to suit their squad's capabilities - is totally missing. It is stuck with dogmatic coaches that have one setup. And bringing back people like Allegri, Mourinho and Sarri isn't going to fix much.
4231 is my fav even if it does come third I have played with in on the pitch and in fifa and honestly I win a lot but I also do lose I honestly like the 433 but I don't at the same time but whenever I think of soccer and the 11 v 11 game I always think of 433 first ngl. It makes a lot of sense why these three are at the top. 433 is really good for pressing and just overall being flexible because of how much you can move and pivot the midfield not to mention you can move your fullbacks if you need to as well. I also love the 3421 my schools Varsity girls played this time around this year they were region champs and they made it to the Quarter Finals before being knocked out. The boys made it to the semis with 433(I didn't play soccer for the team my freshman year aka this year I am going to this coming year as a sophmore.). 4231 is just amazing I LOVE HOW IT WORKS you just have amazing balance and it isn't a negative shape like the 4141. It has a solid back line of 4 and 2 CDM\HMs protecting the back line so it makes it tough to get through that and it is AMAZING on the counterattack espcially speaking from experience as a CAM and being a really fast guy who runs a 12.34 100m time in track IT WORKS SO WELL if someone messed up a corner and we get posession back I fly down the field and make a goal irl or in fifa I also love it cus you can keep posession relatively easliy and get a lot of crosses into the box from Wingers and just pray your striker is like that :)
Might be worth adding the average league position of the teams who use the formations...e.g better team use 4-2-3-1 for example as or 3 2-4-1 as they are more confident in their ability to score and not concede, or that they are willing to sacrifice defensive stability in favor of goal scoring opportunities.
Your claim about low goals per game in Italy's Serie A is not accurate (at least not anymore), as the 19-20 and 20-21 seasons averaged over 3 goals per game. Italy's Serie A has been the most interesting in terms of tactics for a while.
My fav is 4 2 3 1 with two pivot one being much defensive and comfotable with the ball like FDJ and the other a great passer like that of joshua kimmich My team will be a posession based and would give the line up ok GK-neuer or jan oblak RB-hakimi or araujo LB- hernandez or cancelo CB-upamecano or van dijk CB-americ laporte or jules kounde DMF-joshua kimmich DMF-fdj AMF-jamal musiala or phil foden LMF-leroy sane or son RMF-thomas muller CF- harry kane or benzema Its just my team in fifa and pes so i am comfortable with it😂😂
Your stat about Italian league being the lowest-scoring league is false it's actually the league with most goals per game in recent time: Stat from 2021-2022 season: Total goals scored Serie A: 1089 Premier League: 1071 Ligue 1: 1067 Bundesliga: 954 La liga: 951
The 3-5-2 line up is an very nice lineup cause it brings you many diffrent formations. to play in this line up i don’t understand why is this no an good line up
Criticism: those statistics of the formations can’t be right unless u watched every single game. It’s so common that a 433 could also be a 4231 or 4141 or 4411. Only when watching the game u can clearly determine the strats and formation.
Real Madrid, Man City and Napoli play 4-3-3. Hence, the results will likely be skewed towards 4-3-3. Especially with the amount of goals Napoli and City score.
Italian football still stuck to 'old school' football principles so -you must DEFEND -YOU NEED playmakers/trequartistas so their formations are still catered to having a players who are responsible for playmaking etc
You need them bc when two teams that play old school principles the teams that can counter, finish chances and concede less win the title. Teams that dominate possession and play opening are easily punished and frustrated game after game of the same thing. Without that playmaker that literally can't break down a defense easily and waste a lot of energy on a bottom tier team. Example - imagine Barca playing vs an Inter team 3 times a week... it would crush their souls
