The Old Republic Jedi were constantly at war and less strict about tapping into the darkside as long as it was in service of the light. Jedi Shadows did Jedi Council's dirty work with assassinations and covert ops.
If you remember how the dark side is meant to be allegorically to addiction and drug use this gets even more horrifying, the jedi council is literally forcing people to tap use an addictive ability that corrupts the wielder for their own gain
8:32 For those who don't know, this particular body builder from this clip promised his wife that he would win the weight lifting championship just before she died. That clip was the final lift that won him the competition, hence his very emotional reaction.
7:34 I would argue that Kanan Jarrus's self-sacrifice was a reaction like this. Love gave him the power to slow the explosion of a massive fuel tank that would have absolutely overpowered him on any normal day. And this power surge also restored his sight.
When you drew that parallel to using the darkside to the first time you drink alcohol, for some reason I just imagined a dude going "Oh, no, no I only use the darkside socially".
I think people often forget that Windu used the Dark Side, canonically, really very often. Yet - he was neither a dark Jedi, nor did he ever approach accepting the teachings of the Sith.
Windu’s glaring flaw was his fear of a student falling to the darkside….. so instead of helping Anakin Skywalker deal with his emotions, he belittled him at every turn and treated him like an outsider, a necessary evil that he barely tolerated. Virtually any other Jedi knight who had achieved what Anakin Skywalker had achieved, any other Jedi General with Anakin’s record would have been promoted to master….. but not Anakin. Windu set his mind against him from day one and never relented.
@@simplyhoodie if we hadn’t been such an obvious angry vengeful prick when it came to Anakin, Anakin might have actually felt comfortable with asking the master of the order for advice rather than the grandmaster, who only talks in fucking riddles. If Anakin had asked Mace for advice on his dreams of losing Padme ….. for all of his character flaws, Mace is human and might have actually given Anakin better advice than “ let go of all you fear to lose, flush the goldfish and get another one”. The 900-year-old green frog was the absolute worst person He could’ve gone to for advice on loss because Yoda is so old and he has seen so many friends come and go that he is immune to attachment because he literally sees everyone around him like a pet that’s going to die on him and so he doesn’t get attached to anything anymore.
@@Matt-yg8ub Yeah. Mace wasn't a very good Jedi and it was his distrust and obvious bias that led to the destruction of not just the Jedi Order, but also the fall of the Republic and rise of the Empire. I don't put the actions of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader on Windu's shoulders, but he definitely only made things worse for the young Jedi.
@@simplyhoodie Anakin’s actions were his own…. But his desperation to save Padme was driven by the Order refusing to grant him access to the knowledge he needed to save her … and his actions in Palpatine’s office were driven by Windu quite literally committing treason by attempting to kill the chancellor. When Anakin came to him in the hangar and told him Palpatine was a Sith… Windu should have opened up more and expressed that the counsel had believed this for some time. But most importantly he should have questioned WHY Palpatine told him
I agree, fear anger desire. These things have their places in the moment. But if you don't expose yourself, you're not gonna learn how to keep them from consuming you.
Thats why the sith were able to win against (appears to) the jedi in the end. Instead of love with alot jedi not all were driven as Allen said rage, and fear.
@@bryanpate9531it's a term for Jedi who were trained after order 66 and the purge happened. Luke, Sabine, Ezra, and Grogu are all considered Bokken Jedi
Kanan leveraged the force in conjunction with how much he cared about his crew/family, to an amazing extent. His arc is one of the best in Star Wars (Disney) storytelling in my opinion. I think he exemplified just how powerful the light side can be when certain emotions are properly understood and channeled.
Well, the problem with the Jedi, is that good practices like "have control over your emotions so they don't rule you" became "have NO connections cuz DARK SIDE." And by trying to suppress all (even valid normal emotions) you get it coming out in weird ways. Like with Anakin.
The Jedi were never properly trained to resist the dark side thanks to their greatest enemy going into a self imposed exile. Without that they grew complacent and it was one of many factors that led to their downfall. The fact that a Sith Lord was the Chancellor of the Republic and they never sensed it until too late shows how broken the Jedi order had become.
One of my favorite moments in any Star Wars was the duel between Ahsoka and the Inquisitor in Tales of the Jedi. You see her anger at the Inquisitor and she looks to be about to snap but she takes a breath, un-clenches her hand and clams down and lets her rage subside and then she absolutely clowns the Inquisitor. that to me is how a Jedi should duel, just be calm and let the irrational and angry Sith tire themselves out from being fueled by pure hate.
It shows once again the changes in the Jedi Order. In the Nihil story line, we see Jedi that fall into the dark side but are left with a chance to try to return to the light side. By the Republic era, it appears that Jedi only see force users that are touching the dark side as monsters and any force user not trained by the as a hostile enemy
I know this is going to probably garner disagreement. But what I always seen from the Force is this: A little bit of darkness doesn't corrupt you completely. We all have a little bit of darkness inside us. What a true Jedi does is learn to control that darkness. It can still get the better of them in times and does. However, one must make a constant effort to not be ruled by their emotions. Many great Jedi have dabbled in the Dark Side multiple times. The difference between them and Sith is that they can control their emotions and know better than to give themselves to them. In essence, you have to keep your emotions under control instead of digging yourself deeper and deeper. That said, Luke's New Jedi Order had existed to a certain degree for years as a functioning training academy. But it wasn't until months and even longer after the invasion by the Yuuzhan Vong that he finally agreed with some of his more aggressive and militant students that the new Republic needed a better first line of defense and the Jedi were always going to be that line. But because it was politically expedient to blame the Jedi rather than the Invaders for the hostilities, as well as a way to keep Luke in check, the government prevented Luke from fully forming this. It was a terrible situation in which trillions died when they didn't have to because the head of state was worried about everything but what he needed to be worried about. Somewhere chaotic like the Star Wars galaxy, militarism should always be lurking in the case of peace talks fail. The Dark Side is not stronger but the Jedi should always train their students to be ready for combat. When war is lurking, don't wait until the enemy kills people. You have to act first. No matter what Yoda says about Jedi with "knowledge and defense" that's just how life is as Luke later learned. I'm not saying torture their students or force a child to wield a lightsaber and lose sight of who they are as peacekeepers but warriors are necessary 100% of the time.
I might not be remembering it right, but I heard it put as, "A sword is meant to hurt and kill, and that is how it shall always be, but its duty is to be unsheathed for as briefly as possible. A sword fulfills its true purpose when it is not being used."
You can't tap into anything with one toe in the water. Mace Windu used the dark side as a tool, but all his students were corrupted. The razor thin line for him was extremely difficult to walk and even super gifted Jedi fell trying to do the same thing. Mace wasn't using higher dark side power anyway, his own style of fighting was using the dark side energy of whoever he was fighting as fuel for himself. Jedi might be able to temporarily get some power from using the dark side, but the higher mysteries required you to really commit. You can't use the force to drain the life from people without actually committing to those aggressive feelings. If you're using the force selfishly, you're going to cripple your ability to use it selflessly. Obi Wan can't just use both his abilities and force lightning. It doesn't work like that. Darth Zannah uses Form III which is a super defensive form and a "light side" form. But without the selflessness, she can't actually use it to its full potential. Someone like Obi Wan could fight defensively for hours or days at a time against extremely skilled enemies. Zannah could maybe last a few minutes in a fight against top tier enemies. That's because Obi Wan was completely selfless and let the Force use him, but a dark side user is never going to accept being controlled by the Force.
“Know thy self” Self knowledge and self discipline and knowing how to control your emotions, is what separates the Masters from everyone else, regardless of your Force alinement. Sith draw power and strength from their emotions,.. to give themselves the edge in the heat of moment. Sith master knows how to pace themselves during combat, and how to keep a low profile, otherwise they wouldn’t have lasted as long as the Sith have.
That's called temptation. The Jedi are right about once you start it's almost impossible to stop. The Jedi dabbling in the dark side is why the Force allowed them to die out. A True Jedi rejects their darkness, as darkness cannot be controlled. That is the power of the Dark Side. It gives the illusion of control, when you are the one really being controlled. The Jedi BELIEVE they can control their emotions, but in truth they reject their emotions in an attempt to be rational. In doing so they've handicapped themselves by rejecting the strength of the side they claim to serve. Sith lean into the negative side of their emotions. Mace Windu used a dark side form, Juyo, rebranded as Vapaad, and we see it corrupt its users each time, even Windu. Yes even Windu. He was doing the exact same thing against Palpatine that Anakin did against Dooku. It can't be Anakin was falling to the dark side in his fight, and Windu wasn't falling to the dark side in his fight. It's about actions. to be in the light, both actions and intentions must both align with the light. If either is out of line, your not a hero, but you're more easily redeemable, but if both are out of line, that's going to be a long road back. One should know how to protect themselves, no question, but taking lives is not something to be taken lightly. Yoda is 100% correct about knowledge and defense. The Prequel Jedi failed because they were too eager in combat. Barriss Offee, Pong Krell, Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker, etc. All of them went to the dark side because the Jedi lost the way of Knowledge and defense. Had the Order slowed down and sought to understand what was going on, there would be no Clone Wars, no Order 66, and no Darth Vader. Luke in ROTJ in his duel with Vader WAS acting like a prequel Jedi after Vader threatened Leia.
I’d rather be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war. In other words better safe than sorry. To keep peace one must be prepared for war or even win one or a few (: but I do feel like what you spoke of might be closer to a grade Jedi. I think the Jedi are slightly more strict emotions, attachment, and passion not just controlling them but more of almost always letting them pass. When you say control them, I’m not sure if you mean, use them in a safe manner or keep them at bay completely. I think the ladder is what a Jedi goes for and I think you were talking about the former more like a gray.
The true Jedi should look beyond absolutes and embrace both sides of TAO. The Yin and the Yang. Plus, well, Lightsabers themselves came from the Darkside, being stolen by the legendary Je'Daii from the Rakata Hounds of the Force, who were breed to know only about the Darkside of The Force, so every Jedi carries a piece of Darkside with them by basis. Said that, every Jedi also deals with the Darkside on its own and interesting way, so time to watch your video Alan. A very interesting topic to explore in depth through the characters of the saga!
I feel like the way the commonly held and ultimately self-defeating belief that emotions and feelings can be characterized as “good” or “bad”. Clinical psychology has to include in psychotherapy with almost every person that it is not the emotion or feeling itself that could be considered good or bad, but how one expresses that emotion or feeling. Also that if one connects with their emotions and feelings in order to be more effective isn’t what makes one “fall to the Dark side”. In real psychology, it would be allowing one self to enjoy or simply justify the bad things one does with one’s emotions over time.
Jedi don't use the darkside because using the darkside isn't like accessing a set of powers, it's about your state of mind. So there are jedi who are very aggressive and use their emotions, like Mace Windu. Plo Koon can use a kind of force lightning. But you can't use true force lightning if you're not in the right state of mind. You can't do half measures. "A Jedi sufficiently strong in the Force can be trained to produce a facsimile, but not true Sith lightning, which, unabated, has the power not only to incapacitate or kill, but to physically transform the victim. Force lightning requires strength of a sort only a Sith can command because we accept consequence and reject compassion. To do so requires a thirst for power that is not easily satisfied. The Force tries to resist the callings of ravenous spirits; therefore it must be broken and made a beast of burden. It must be made to answer one's will. But the Force cannot be treated deferentially. In order to summon and use lightning properly, you will someday have to be on the receiving end of its power, as a means of taking the energy inside yourself" - Plagueis
Yeah but Disney has decided that Jedi and Sith are just the same, neither good nor evil, just different. So I appreciate the deep thought and your love for the (mostly) carefully crafted lore of Star Wars but... Disney knows better so just get in line. Jedi MASTERS can be over emotional dudes who just wanna be a dad now 🤣🤡
@@bspitler0 James Luceno wrote "Darth Plagueis" (the source of the OP's quote) in January 2012. Disney did not buy the Star Wars IP, nor have any say over any of it, until October 2012. So what you're bashing right now isn't from Disney, it's from Lucas. Just thought you might like to know :)
@@olencone4005 You couldn't read the Plagueis novel with reading comprehension this poor 🤡. I was mocking Disneys idiotic decisions by comparing it to how well thought out and awesome the Plagueis novel was. Just thought you'd want to know! 🤣
I'd argue back that Plagueis is speaking more of the metaphysical side of force lighting as it was known to be unnaturally painfully both physically and spiritually. How ever from a purely technical standpoint a Jedi could power their lightning to effectively turn this enemy to ash by simply increasing the physical heat in the lightning like natural lighting which we know some Jedi could summon from the sky.
If you havent seen it yet... Lockstin & Noggin channel have a great video with theories, evidence, how Lucas thought etc... After watching it i have no doubt Darth Jar Jar was going to be a real thing. But instead of enjoying the ride Lucas was taking us on...selfish people made him change direction. I would have much rather had Darth Jar instead of any of this stuff from dizney wars.
The Jedi’s total dogmatic rejection of the dark side really looks to me to have grown from Yoda. Even after he had narrowly escaped the destruction of the entire order that he had led, he was still preaching complete abstinence to Luke, and weirdly, with Luke it worked. He fell a little over to the dark side in combat, caught himself, and decided that he would rather die than make the transition to Sith. I must conclude, therefore, that for Luke, who was pretty new to force use at that time, this was the correct teaching strategy. The same approach, however, failed spectacularly with Anakin, and I think that Allen has analyzed this to the point that I really can’t add anything. What I want to get at here is that Yoda, whose name was once synonymous with wisdom, is the source of this strict approach to the force, from the prequels until his death in Return of the Jedi. What happened in his life to cause him, even after being alive for so long, to see force use, and living the Jedi life, in such stark black-and-white terms? What does Yoda think balance in the force is? Is Yoda, and his authority over the Jedi, the actual cause of imbalance in the force during his lifetime? I really want to see this part of Yoda’s life now, the part that permanently removed his perception, acknowledgement, or validation from all shades of grey, at least in regard to force use, possibly in regard to other aspects of life as well. Could we say that this period in Yoda’s life was his “radicalization”? Or it it just a characteristic of his species (a much more boring explanation)?
The dark side gets addictive and actually makes people fall and become Siths, when they realise it can be used for control, power and to bend the rules of nature. This where the addiction lies: when connecting the Force with the ego, not just the feelings of fear, anger, desire, pain. You can be angry because an injustice is happening. You can be fearful that your kid or your soulmate is in danger. These feelings have a reason. Instead of talking about the reason the Jedi put everything into one bucket. Someone's motive is the decisive factor about falling to the dark side, and probably there is not even a dark side. It's just the Force in general and there is no dark or light side. Anakin had already a massive ego since he was a boy. He wanted revenge and he used the Force when killing the Tuscans. He wanted to save Padme, but to do so he wanted to disrespect fate and nature by stopping death. Then he took the power as his consolation prize, angry with himself and became Darth Vader. Osha was angry for years of grief and lies so again she used the Force for revenge. During Luke's slip he also wanted revenge. Count Douku had convinced himself that by following the dark side he would save the Republic but in reality he wanted to rule it himself. Egotistical reasons and Force and there you have what they call the dark side. It's actually a hubris. Sol actually falls into this category but for a different reason and not exactly. He was angry and sad by witnessing the youngsters being slaughtered by Qimir. He was confused and angry by the messy situation he half caused and half was put into but he never actually killed for revenge. His egotistical motive was that he wanted someone to take care of. This is natural but at the same time he convinced himself that Osha was in danger from the witches, while she wasn't. As for the falling into the dark side for love, there is a difference between "I love someone and I want to protect them with my own life even" and "I love someone and I want to protect them in order to keep them for me, or after they are taken, I want revenge because now I am alone now and I want to feel that I had control over it." The first case is more rare. Kanan Jarrus loved his girlfriend and his family, he wanted to protect them and actually the Force allowed him to see the love of his life one last time. That proves that the Jedi's belief against feelings and attachments was wrong. The second cases are more common, though. Love can be egotistical and that's when you risk all the above. Diversifying between the scenarios can be cultivated, though.
I really hate when fans bicker about “Power Levels” in SW. None of that matters to me. The emotions during the fight fluctuates depending on whose fighting and what they’re feeling during the fight. Seeing Jacki scream during her fight with Qimir, definitely felt like she was tapping into the DS, and since she’s never done that before it felt like Qimir knew exactly what to do when it happened.
I remember George going over how the difference between the ligh side of the force stems from being selfless joy and dark side of the force stemming from selfish pleasure. I feel like while it might be more realistic that the jedi would use the darkside I feel like it makes sense that the jedi are so dogmatic about not using the dark side.
In OT-era notes and companion books, the Dark Side is more like a cancerous corruption. Light Side is the original right state of things, Dark Side is an evil perversion. In Empire, Yoda also states the Dark Side is not more powerful, just faster and easier, but at a terrible price. The idea of a need for balance is a later concept that emerged from Prequel EU authors.
This is what made Windu special. Literally. Alan is trying to apply it to all Jedi. Because Disney is trying this "the Jedi aren't the good guys' bullshit. It's not that I can't understand heroes have issues. It's not that superficial. It's that being annoyingly good IS what makes the Jedi special. It's their thing. Even when fighting and killing, to do so out of love and compassion to protect others. It's like making Superman evil, but not in a spin off, but changing to lore so they always were.
@@bspitler0 Djinn Altis rogue sect is a really good example as well. They allow marriage and romantic relationships and split from the order but still serve the republic and probably use some aspect of the burning passion of the dark side. Control is key.
@@wingsoffreedom3589 You nailed it though, most Jedi would be pretentiously too good. Too boring. All you have to do is pick literally any other time in Star Wars lore, and you can have Jedi going rogue, you can have Sith go in wild, but it's during the thousand years of peace. And instead of making it one rogue Jedi, The whole Jedi order just looks stupid now. Big difference between bad actors and entirely compromised organizations that rely on being good to access their force powers.
@@bspitler0 I like that the prequel order was fundamentally broken as that's a good story to tell however they are definitely the lamest version of the jedi. Also I do have a problem with the notion of being good would need to be necessary to access power the force is too vague and also contrived to be a purely moral force. I would love to have seen a version of the prequels where some Jedi joined the seperatist because they believed in the cause and were still firmly lightside. If that's not possible than we'd have to concede the force is political and reactionary that it inherently resists change from the status quo and all of the abused outer rim and mid rim worlds that want justice and autonomy from a government that abandoned them deserve to continue to suffer because that's the will of the force. The implication being that the sith are indeed coreect that jedi are slaves to the force and that it's will does not deserve to be respected and that it should inatead be used for the practical goals of the force user.
there is also the fact that one side is pretty much holding back because they won’t do heinous acts to win whereas the other one will commit horrible, horrible crimes just to win.
As a non-force user. I practice " The Way " Hehe. Legal conceal carry should only be carried by someone willing to give their life to defend the weak, or helpless. Just MHO
Yeah I feel like the culture around firearms in our country is getting a bit ridiculous especially with all these TikTok people. These things are not toys.
No they just obfuscate what the dark side is because they are afraid of it. Yes emotions can lead to the dark side of the force. But they can also lead you to the force. It’s how you ise your emotions.
I have always felt Luke acted out of love for his sister Leia in his last fight vs his father. Only by actually killing his father would he actually turn to the dark side. But looking at his mechanical hand and then his fathers helped Luke decide NOT to kill the father he had never known, but loved. Love in Star Wars and the Jedi is a good discussion!
After Luke cuts off Vader's hand and sees the mechanical parts, he looks at his own mechanical hand and realizes that if he uses rage and anger and kills Vader, he will fall to the dark side like Anakin did.
Emotions are a quick power boost. It can be useful but mastering when you engage it and how long you use it is key. If you can get your opponent to drain themselves of their boost first and/or inefficiently you can follow up with your own precision boost to take advantage of their weakness.
Just go back and read "Legends" books and forget the Disney canon. Luke Skywalker is the grandmaster of the Jedi order, obviously. He has a son, Ben, who's a bit younger than Han and Leia's kids. Luke revises the Jedi Code to embrace love, but the fear of loss is still something you need to leave behind, which is why he married and had a child. You would know all this if you read the books, and that Luke removed that massive weakness from the Code 😊. Oh, also, Jedi in combat enter Battle Meditation. That's always made clear in the books, and how it actually works. That's the answer to the video. I bet he wished he could just cover the Legends versions, it would make so much more sense. Great video, contains lots of information pulled from Legends heh. Love it. Je
One of my favourite minor characters is a Sith Lord called Kopecz. He lived during the New Sith Wars and started life as a Jedi but as the Sith grew he defected because he believed that the Sith offered the best chance to build a more stable galaxy. It wasn’t for selfish reasons (I mean what’s selfish about wanting a stable, war-free galaxy?) which is something I can 100% get behind and would likely be what would convince me to join the Sith. Also the Sith in some ways seem more practical. In the “Book of Sith” Darth Bane writes about combat and under lightsaber combat he eschews the six forms taught by Jedi in favour of two styles: fast style and strong style. He notes Fast style is categorised by its focus on speed, acrobatics, precision and footwork. Defensively Fast style is Soresu, the third lightsaber form but it is paired with one or two other Forms into a singular style for its more aggressive sequences. It is my opinion that the “aggressive” sequences of Fast style is Makashi and Ataru. This comes from Darth Bane’s own experience as he fought another apprentice who used Soresu and Makashi against him in a duel at the Sith academy; later he fights his former instructor who uses a two-lightsaber variant of Ataru against him. Somehow Bane refines all three forms and those two experiences into a singular style. Strong style is based upon his own use of Djem So, stating that to use it requires a combination of the user’s own body weight in conjunction with one’s anger to produce truly powerful strikes. He mentions Shien as another aspect of Strong style but it’s an aspect that should rarely be used. Dun Moch, the breaking of an opponent’s spirit, is a tool favoured by Sith because it breaks a Jedi’s concentration and composure. An effective way to ensure victory so long as it doesn’t backfire. And then there’s Juyo. Bane describes that emotions such as fear are necessary not just hate and anger in mastering this style. In short, Darth Bane refined a martial system that to me is the most practical. Fighting defensively like a Jedi leads to prolonged fighting and the more likely outcome of you dying because in most situations, the aggressor will emerge victorious in a fight. And I assure that’s true, as a teenager I would fight defensively in karate sparring sessions and get my arse kicked. The only Jedi forms I would say are practical are Forms IV, V and VII, because they are three of the most aggressive of the seven Forms. And would you believe it, each of them are related to the three styles established by Bane for his Rule of Two Sith: Form IV (Fast style), Form V (Strong style) and Form VII (Juyo). What does this have to do with anything? It shows that while the light side may be balance and the ideal state, one cannot deny that sometimes the dark side is just practical. Think of the Force like food. The dark side is having a takeaway which is fine once now and then but not everyday. But if you deny yourself that once in a while “treat” you are more likely to be tempted the more you resist until finally, you find yourself eating takeaways almost every night after work. Why? Because it’s easier than cooking. And that’s what the dark side is: it’s an easier option to take but is detrimental to your health and your finances overtime. I know. I was strict with my eating for a good few weeks, I lost over a stone in weight but I denied myself certain foods. I had one bad day and the “dark side” was there. Within a couple of weeks I put on about half of that weight I previously lost. And yeah I know it’s all about having the right mindset but often times that’s easier said than done. For a Jedi to maintain their own balance must be a truly difficult thing to constantly strive for. Dooku and Anakin were both Jedi who tapped into the dark side as Jedi on occasion. Dooku Force choked that Senator in Tales of the Jedi and even used Force Lightning as a Jedi in the audiobook Dooku: Jedi Lost. There was a Sith Lord who tried to merge Jedi and Sith philosophies and would later be regarded as a heretic. He was killed by his apprentice but not before destroying centuries worth of accumulated dark side knowledge. So would a blending of Jedi and Sith teachings be what the Sith would consider to be “balance”? As opposed to the balance laid out by George Lucas and the Jedi: that being the absolute non-existence of the dark side. To me, the absence of the dark side is unnatural. As humans we all have an inner darkness and to deny that is probably really dangerous. If we’re not aware of our own darkness, how are we supposed to deal with it when an event happens that causes it to manifest itself? In legends one of the trials a Jedi must undertake is the Trial of the Spirit (colloquially referred to as “facing the mirror” by Oppo Rancisis). This is a spiritual trial where a Jedi Padawan must look deep inside themselves and will likely not like what they find, because it may reveal an aspect of themselves that truly horrifies them. On Nelvaan, Anakin experiences a vision of himself becoming Darth Vader. Earlier on he had a vision on Mortis shown to him by the Son but that vision was erased from his mind by the Father. Yoda faced his own inner darkness and finally understood that the best way to defeat it was to accept it as part of oneself but not to give that aspect of yourself power. Tl;dr the dark side is more appealing to those of us who lack patience and want the easy way through life. The light side is more fulfilling in the long term but requires a lot more hard work and personal growth on behalf of the individual.
I think using the dark side in self defense is OK, risky but less risky than you dying. Just have to be reserved when using it, don't use it to get info from a street vendor but yeah use it to defeat a sith who's besting you
I agree with you, there is more to the force... and life then the light side and the dark side. I do try to keep myself on the light side but sometimes it can be difficult to see in the moment. Kyle Katarn said that no force power is inherently good or evil, it's how you use them.
Well one can say Vader was holding back to a point against Luke. Luke even say's "Your thought's betray you Father, I can feel the good in you, the conflict."
well..... if i remember the story right, Malgus' assasult on the Jedi Temple was performed with the very best warriors available to him. he brought the equivalent of seasoned Jedi Masters. Master Zallow cutting through them like wheat is nothing to scoff at either. A Jedi Battlemaster in those days was a fearsome opponent.
I'd argue there IS one moment in Disney Star Wars where a Jedi uses love (sort of) to defeat a Dark Side user in combat, and that's in the Kenobi series finale. After Obi Want gets buried under a metric ton of rocks, it's his desire to protect Leia and Luke that gives him the strength to literally push himself out of the pit and go all Super Saiyan on Vader...but it's also love that stops him from finishing Vader off, even after Vader seems to confirm that "Anakin is gone." Though I don't think Obi Wan really truly ever believed Anakin was "truly dead" deep down, otherwise I feel like he would have struck Vader down right there. Similarly with Luke, it may have been anger that granted him the strength to defeat Vader in combat, it was love that saved them both by choosing to toss away his lightsaber. So really, the light side is all about pacifism, which is a totally fine thing, but it's almost completely incompatible with life-or-death combat. The only way to NOT tap into the Dark Side in a fight...is to throw the fight. Just like Obi Wan did in A New Hope and Luke did in Return of the Jedi.
I don't remember where, but I read a surprisingly interesting view of the Dark Side of the Force that was quite similar to this: the Dark Side is like adrenaline, tapping into it during a close brush with death is just...natural. The problem is that it *feels good.* And if you aren't careful, you'll start to seek it out, and slowly over time or, for some people, quite rapidly, you start to spiral downwards.
I imagine that of the many Jedi, those that did have a tendency to tap into the dark side, and did so too often, would often be sidelined away from away missions where they might encounter that temptation more often and would be put on something like working the library or teaching or some other political matters that won't put them in those life or death scenarios that might tempt them
The power of love/friendship is so universally seen as "the good guy power up" that I imagine tapping into positive emotions would be more of a light side thing and probably even more powerful than dark side emotions But the Jedi were just so dogmatic against emotion out of fear of negative emotions that they fail to harness the full power of the light side powers available to them and incorrectly label them as dark side powers
I would definitely say this is true post Kreia as Meetra Surik became the new founder of the Jedi much similar to how Luke and later Rey did. But I don't know if it's cut and dry before Meetra Surik.
Ya know, there is another secret the modern Jedi don't tell. If you go by Legends, especially the old comics, and even in Clone Wars with the Sister and the Brother there is this heavy implication of the use of positive emotions to do the opposite of what the Sith do with the dark side. Even in the prequels Anakin said that the Jedi are taught to 'love all beings', and that makes sense when you remember the force is about connections. However the Jedi of the Clone Wars, were stagnant, distant, isolated and cut of from the outside world. One of the reasons for Anakin's fall is basically no one had the empathy to help him after Qui-Gon left, the sort of people naturally attuned to the 'Light'. Instead the Clone Wars era Jedi embraced a Vulcan like damnation of emotion, while getting embroiled in politics instead of strengthening their connection with the force and thus the world around them and the people there in.
In Matthew Stover's novelization of Revenge of the Sith, it was stated that "war itself was the tool of the Dark". Emotions like anger and fear likely began as evolved responses for self-preservation in life and death situations. It stands to reason that for any naturally evolved sentient being, the Dark Side is going to be the easier pathway to tapping into the force in lethal combat situations. The Light Side is much more suited for non-combat applications, in general. The pre-Clone Wars era Jedi had existed in a peaceful galaxy for so long that they sort of forgot this, and let their fear of the Dark Side ossify their attitudes towards that. That said, I think that at the very highest levels, a Light Side master will defeat a Dark Side master of equal power and training, because emotions cloud judgment. If the Light Sider can withstand the initial rage-fueled barrage, the Dark Sider is much more likely to be the one who makes the fatal misjudgment first. Most times we see a Light Sider beat a Dark Sider in the canon it is because the Dark Sider defeats himself with emotion driven tactical mistakes.
Interesting topic - It made me think about your law enforcement analogy from a couple of weeks ago, how some otherwise good and law-abiding officers have occasionally dipped into the dark side whether for self-preservation or to "protect" another, from what they deem as a possible threat - self defense or not, it stains the soul...
When Cal Kestis fought an entire Imperial base, he was tapping into his emotions. He used both light and dark. Thanks to Merrin, he was able to call on the dark but not give in to it. If Mace had been alive, he might have found Cal to be a great student for Vaapad. BTW Alan, Rey and the other Disney characters don't count because the Darth Kennedys abomination is NOT Star Wars.
I feel the Force itself is neither good nor evil and could be channeled most effective by those who aren't wholey dedicated to either ideology, those who are neither "blinded" by the light nor "lost" to the dark. The key is to know yourself truly, acknowledge that you possess both elements of these aspects of the Force, and embrace this knowledge with enough presence of mind to not allow yourself to be swayed completly one way or the other and remain balanced. There is but one way this is achieved: You have to be completely honest with yourself without entertaining any false justifications for your actions. Lying to yourself will always result in your downfall, Force user or not, but to an especially high degree if you are a powerful conduit for the energy (light and/or dark) that comprises the Force.
I remember when I first learned the Jedi Code had changed, I saw something suggesting some Sith or other had _sabotaged_ the Jedi Code itself, and I totally buy that. What do I mean? Once upon a time, it didn't go, "there is no emotion, there is peace," it went, "emotion, yet peace." That is a huge world of difference between denial and control when you stop and think about it.
For many, it is the sound, of the lightsaber. Once you experience what one of those can do, it's almost like a visceral reaction to sound of a deadly animal. Watch a duel without sound. Then close your eyes and just listen. Sound can be at least as much a distraction...
8:37 i can confirm, when you are using emotion you kinda get physically stronger almost, its wild, of course no force but this is still true in the real world to a point.
Anakin brought balance to the Force by killing off the Jedi, and then balanced it again by tossing Palpatine down a reactor shaft. When the Jedi dominated, the Force was out of balance and had been for a thousand generations. What a balancing act! Be careful what you wish for. Restoring the balance of the Force isn't what you thought.
I think a lot of the time it may actually be *fandom* that too often considers any emotion or ferocity in a fight to be 'dark side,' mind you. I certainly didn't see Jecki in that fight as 'using the dark side' just for hitting hard when, err, really the situation called for that. In the real world I think there's a real difference between say striking because anger and striking while *feeling* anger, ...the latter can be fuel of sorts, the former is often an equation for regrettable. Similarly there may be a difference between 'ferocity' and 'losing your cool' or just 'losing it.' It's almost like I'm talking about Vaapad without the direct interplay about someone else's Dark Side necessarily. (If I recall, Bruce Lee had similar words, I kind of internalized a lot of that though) It's also like the difference between 'Driving Angry' or 'Anger Driving' and 'driving while feeling some anger,' ...the latter of which kind of goes through feeling it and paying attention and letting it pass through rather than bottling up/stoking/acting out by it, see? I would hope a healthier Jedi approach still recognizes a Jedi's feelings, just is about being in discipline/control of using them. There's using power and there's getting attached to it in bad ways. In the end, they're all swinging plasma bars of dismemberment if it comes down to 'for keeps,' so the discipline and meditationalness should of course involve not expecting a lot of time-outs to restore equanimity.
I did think 'Alan you Jedi hating bastard..' I did agree with you - we're never skewed to light or dark, we flux between the two. This is what drives us to learn and love, as well as hate. The Yin and Yang, or the figure in mosaic on Ahch-To.
I would argue that the Sith hand selected their best shock troops to attack the Jedi temple. The Jedi had to rally a defense on the spot with whoever happened to be at the temple. A strike team of Jedi masters probably would have fared much better.
Kenobi 'losing it' after seeing his master fall or the pain of him having to fight his 'brother', then seeming to fight better as it goes longer, are a couple more examples of 'dark side taint' affecting a Jedi during battle. If you aren't invested in the outcome, you run the risk of failing to achieve it...
Your statement that love is a useful emotion that shouldn't be repressed is actually what Luke did in the old canon. He came to understand that love had brought his father back to the light, and his own partial fall to the dark side was undone by the love of his sister and his friends. This is why he wasn't afraid of forming connections and even got married. To a woman who tried to kill him no less! It's why new canon Luke is a slap in the face to the entire Star Wars timeline up to that point. Luke had finally brought balance to the Force. He had sort of brought back the ancient Je'Daii order, the precursor to the Jedi, that believed in balance between the light and dark. The order that the ancient Celestials put together. Their ideal wielders of the Force. The true form of its worship and use. And it was cast aside by a company that can't come up with its own ideas. Instead, picking at the carcass of the expanded universe they themselves murdered. I don't think Luke defeating Vader on the second Death Star was a Mary Sue moment at all. I think the scales were evened out. Vader's love for his son was holding him back.
By making you completely ignore emotions once a jedi finally gives in to any emotion they just go "screw it might as well go dark side". If the jedi taught you to use righteous anger and love they would have a better outlet for their emotions rather than bottling them up until they explode.
Great video. However, I will say one thing. The Jedi Mind Trick is a dark side power. I know it's a very uncommon thought because it's attached to the Jedi and not the Sith because the Sith prefer to just kill, but manipulating someone to do what you want is not heroic in any sense. (Note the Prequel Jedi use it often and the one film that Luke uses it in, [ROTJ] he's a lot more vulnerable to the dark side in the film. Don't believe that's a coincidence) Tapping into the Dark Side always comes with serious risk and there is no controlling it. You may get lucky and have a Palpatine slip up by cackling too early and get you a chance to think things through, but better safe than sorry.
the interesting and cool thing about Obi Wan is that he mostly defeats anyone. Even if he falls a couple of times, loses his weapon or the fight, he comes back and wins it.
The Dark Side is like decay, a little can be reversed or even useful, but when it takes over it stagnates. I find the water analogy that crops up a lot very apt. The force is like the ocean, powerful, deep, multitudinous. Using the light side is like going with a river, you are sped along to where the river is going. The dark is like still water, very useful for getting you where You want to go, but if it sits it begins to rot and destroy and breed things that feed on decay.
Love this thought exercise (if I’m using the correct term). And let’s face it - seeing the world in black and white is never going to work. Too many shades of grey in the real world.
I would say there is a decent example of a Jedi embracing the Dark Side possibly for love, and that is in Jedi: Survivor when Cal taps into the darkness on Nova Garon and during the final boss. Now there is an argument that Cal let his emotion take over because he has been struggling to survive and fight the Empire for so long, his emotion will occasionally slip, especially in desperate scenarios, but in both scenarios there were people that Cal really cared for placed in immediate danger during both of those parts, especially present when Merrin was involved in the fight against Bode. Even if Cal’s use of the Dark Side isn’t an example of this, I would put money on that either or all of Greez (Cal’s friend from the beginning, basically an uncle to Cal, always been there for him since their meeting.), Merrin (Cal’s love interest) and Bode’s Daughter (someone he swore to protect, on top of being a young child) will all be put in grave danger, and the game may even force us to choose who we must save in the next entry of the Jedi series. TLDR Cal has (probably) used and will use the dark side for love. Just a thought I had.
