I really didn’t have an issue with either of those points: a) I think the dark side stuff is heavily foreshadowed throughout, they’re constantly talking about the price of obsession and the fact that Cal is maybe losing himself to the fight. His dark moments don’t define him in this game, but he’s been through a lot (and his master Cere had her own struggles with giving into darkness) so I think that’ll be built upon in part 3. b) Similarly, I think it’s stated quite clearly and directly that Kata is old enough to see that her dad has lost it some time ago. She apologises for him being a thief, she says she doesn’t like it on the lonely planet he’s brought her to, she begs him not to fight Cal throughout the last battle, and outright states he’s not been the same person since his wife was killed. Plus the fact that she’s spent most of her time since then on her own, waiting in a tiny apartment on an asteroid base run by the space Gestapo that her dad is a stooge for… yeah, by the time you kill him, I’m pretty sure Kata’s attitude is “that sucks, but I see why you did it, and you’re almost certainly better people than he was”. I got the impression she mourned and let go of the person her father used to be a long time before Cal meets her!
If you didn’t know already, the lightsaber Bode uses is actually Dagan’s. That’s why after Dagan’s final fight Bode says that he is going to stay behind to “look for the compasses instructions.” He takes it off of Dagan’s body. This is confirmed in a force echo if you go back to the place where you fought Dagan for the last time.
Personally, I loved the ending of Jedi: Survivor. I think Cal using the dark side was actually built up to. The reason they introduced Cal’s new crew only to kill them all off in the beginning of the game was because their deaths were what angered Cal. There is one moment where, after most of Cal’s crew is dead, Cal is going after the ninth sister out of revenge when Bode and Bravo are telling him it’s a bad idea. This eventually lead to Cal decapitating the ninth sister (aka the moment where everyone questioned whether or not this is a Disney product). My point is that there was build up to Cal eventually tapping into the dark side. Merrin was telling him not to murder the ISB officer in cold blood out of revenge and he chose not to for Merrin’s sake, however he was still unstable and starting to lose himself eventually leading to him tapping into the dark side once more. He does not recover until he speaks to Cere for guidance and closure. Kata is able to understand that her father had to be killed, and while she is devastated by the loss, Merrin tells her that even though it is a part of her, she must not let it define her. So Kata leaves the doll her mother gave her on Bode’s corpse as it is being cremated to ensure that she moves on from the loss of now both her parents but does not forget that it is still a part of her (echoing Cal moving on from the loss of his master in the first game). If she was bitter towards Cal because of this then she would be letting it define who she is, instead she lets Cal and Merrin, as Cere says, “guide her through the darkness”. Also this comment took forever to write so I’d really appreciate a heart or a pin.
I think this is an issue of expectations. These games aren't "roleplaying games", where you really get to decide Cal's role in the story. They're on rails, so when you decide that you are in love with Merrin and want her in whatever your new life is going to be, thats a Cal decision, not a player decision. Similarly, it's hard to put the full emotional weight of Cere's death into context, because you (and I'm sure many of us) knew Bode was going to betray Cal - but Cal didn't, and he's willing to do anything to resolve the pain of losing yet another master. Cal has been basically one bad day away from dipping into the Dark Side this entire game, so while it's frustrating gameplay (guess I can't use slow anymore, huh?), it does make sense in the context of the story. Merrin is the one who takes initiative with Kata, and I wouldn't be surprised if the next game has Cal struggling with his losses and use of the Dark Side while trying to be the partner/parent Merrin and Kata need him to be.
@@jayymorris5285 That would have been wild. I kind of expected him to make it to Tanalorr before getting fridged for plot reasons. The real question is: when are we going to see Quinlan Vos, who is theoretically still alive at this point and shares Cal's psychometry.
@@BishopBlackhand I think Vos also had an easter egg in the Obi-Wan series that shows he was involved in the Hidden Path. It would make a lot of sense for him and Cal to cross paths in the next game actually.
@@4LegCrotch I think it's a really interesting design choice, even though I definitely felt the same way ("Wait, I have to do this?") initially. It replaces a useful ability late in the game, one I put points in, and I definitely activated it a couple times just on reflex and immediately regretted it. I think forcing you to activate it pains the players who will (like Nando) restart the fight rather than use the Dark Side ability, which is sadistic and artistically interesting to me.
I think there is some foreshadowing of the whole dark side stuff, it just gets a little lost in everything that comes after. Right back during the tutorial(?) mission on Coruscant, Cal’s anger when his crew dies (there’s a shot that lingers on him looking super pissed - not sad, but enraged), then his brutal decapitation of the Ninth Sister both lean kinda dark, especially since he really left Bode and the one other guy who was still alive (Bravo I think his name was) out to dry while he went off on his Ninth Sister revenge quest. Even BD makes the odd concerned beep here and there. Then you’ve got Dagan Gera, and while they don’t play this angle up too much, I think he’s intended to be a cautionary tale for Cal - get too involved in the mission, like he has been with Saw’s gang, and you lose yourself to the dark side. Bode then represents the other side of the coin, getting too involved in protecting your family that you lose yourself to the dark side - which interestingly is where Merrin was at when we met her in the first game. We helped her come back from it, and now she’s kind of returning the favour.
At one point, Cere and Cal are talking about her trials with the Dark Side and she literally says he will face challanges too (something along those lines). It was pretty heavy hinted that Cal was going to struggling with the dark side at some point
Nando expected to make the choice himself, and I think that’s what threw him off. But he’s not playing as nando, he’s playing as cal. And at this point cal is the type to totally lose his cool and let his hate for the empire take over.
He did go for impulsive vengeance against the 9th sister, but imo ended up dispatching her in combat without emotion. Struck me as very Jedi. He also left Bode and Bravo with the ship that they were using to escape, he didn't screw them over, he was just putting himself at unnecessary risk, possibly also wanting to cover their escape. I think it really only comes into play after Bode helped plant the seed of embracing love and attachment for Merrin. Cal tapped into his emotions from betrayal to use the dark side out of necessity for the greater good, and now he'll deal with the temptation of taking the easy route later, while we get to play with the fun mechanic in a non canon way in the meantime.
I grocked with how they were doing the dark side. It's not an instant evil switch, but it is a rush of power mixed with a heightened emotional state, basically making accessing the dark side more like taking a drug, which keeps within the idea that the dark side is addictive. That's at least my read on it.
Totally agree I almost didn’t hesitate to use the dark side because I felt what cal was feeling, I would’ve done anything to protect Merrin, like I know I wouldn’t have been strong enough to “let her go” and not give in to the dark side
I think it’s important to remember that Bode told Kata that Cal was his best friend, and Kata repeatedly seems to know that her father has been off-kilter for quite a while. In fact I think she is very aware that he has made a deal with her mothers killers. Kata going with Cal makes sense to me, even if her quiet and mournful reaction isn’t anything like the one I would have had, I imagine for her, her family died a long time ago.
It really did make sense. Cal has gone through so much that he finally just snapped. Clearly it's not a pick your destiny kind of thing. You're playing as Cal. You're going through what he is feeling.
The darkside is a shadow in Cal through the whole game. From the beginning he struggles controlling his anger. The story heavily implies his "I'm right you're wrong" is what broke apart the Mantis crew. He kills every boss he faces, which contrast the first game, where he didn't kill any! Maybe you didn't notice those story beats. Or times early in the game when he get angry. There is always a lite red somewhere in the background.
I took the dark side path immediately to see how badass it would be but then look up the good path on RU-vid immediately after. I was surprised to find out light side ending didn’t exist.
Star Wars has been in a strange place for a long time. They’ve taken 40+ years to tell, essentially, 1 story. Lots of characters and their backstories but it’s really been about the rise and fall of the Empire. This is especially true now that they have made a distinction between canon and legends material. So now that they are trying to tell a different story it’s a complex sell to the fans. I’ve read a handful of High Republic books and they are good but I’m not sure how they get everyone else on board without introducing those characters and stories in current content to attempt to get people interested.
What had me confused is that Bode’s daughter seems completely indifferent to her fathers death. She immediately joins Cal’s crew like nothing happened and is completely devoid of any emotion at end of the game. Like she is just literally chilling with the people that killed her father.
She knew her dad had gone off the deep end, and was used to going long periods not seeing him, probably wondering if he wouldn't come back most days and grieving it day by day until it loses the initial emotional weight. It's just detachment, kids can be like that. Merrin does warn that she'll definitely have tough questions later
Yes. The only thing that makes sense to me is that she is in shock after fitnessing brutal slaughter of his dad and getting kidnapped by the same people.
There’s lots of evidence going through the game that Cal is dangerously teetering on the dark side. He’s a warrior Jedi and from the beginning of the game he’s relishing in violence against the empire even though he isn’t making a dent. He’s attached to his crew that all dies, and then he is attached to his new crew, when he loses them he lashes out against Bode, instead of leaving the fight to help Cere and Merrin, like bode says “you don’t have time for this fight if you want to save your friends go” and Cal still attacks him. What finally gets him to kill Bode is when he sees Merrin choking to death. It worked really well for me and didn’t feel like it came out of left field
I didn't have any issues with the use of the dark side from Cal. It was hinted since the start in the plot and some dialogue. What bothered me was how irrational Bode got at the end when he was already in Tanalorr, to risk what he had accomplished and even the life of her daughter just for the two of them to live alone in an isolated planet?, and the "it's the dark side affecting his mind" explanation is lame and it will always be so. He acts like he's trapped working for the empire, yet he meets a rogue Jedi who doesn't even bother to cover himself or his powers or his lightsaber when he travels to different planets. I get that Bode is just really afraid of the empire. I just wish they at least added one scene that showed us how bad the situation was triggering his fight or flight mode.
I think while you can chalk it up to the dark side affecting his mind. It really is a bit more nuanced than that. Bode's ultimate fear is that he can't keep Kata safe. A bit of a parallel to Anakin and Padme's story. He heard the story of how even though Tanalorr was supposed to be safe the enemies of the high republic still found a way through and annihilated the jedi that were there. He worked for the imperial spy network whose job is to infiltrate rebel networks to let the empire capture them so he had an idea of what the empire was capable of. He knew that with letting people in to Tanalorr brings a risk that the empire would be able to infiltrate as all it takes is one mistake to ruin the world for everyone. That fear led him to the extreme conclusion that, they could only truly be safe, if it was only them two in that place. He wanted to let Cal and Merrin come but only cus he knew he could trust them wholeheartedly. But when they wanted to let everyone else come, he realized they aren't on his side. And if they aren't with him they're against him.
I think this is the awkward phase with loose ends that don't make sense for conclusion because this isn't the conclusion. With the third game coming out in 3 to 5 years, I'm assuming the dark side (which was actually sprinkled throughout the game. Story wise quite a bit, ESPECIALLY the first game), is going to lead to grander stories for the third game. The last chapter of the second game almost works as chapter 1 of the third game, imo. And I don't think the daughter will be a part of the crew, I think the seeds have been sown to create an antagonist through the daughter.
I just finished streaming it, and I think the Bode twist was great but also took a little too long to ignite. I also would have felt more for Cere if we had a mission with her before hand.
I loved this game, probably my favourite Star Wars game, but I'll agree that the Darkside stuff is very strangely integrated. I also did what you did in that fight and died, but weirdly when I came back I didn't get the prompt to do it again? I don't know if that was a glitch or something. My hope for the next game is that they subvert the idea that Kata is force sensitive, like...obviously she's going to be, but if she wasn't the story would be new and different (and we could step away from the weird eugenics-y nature of force sensitivity).
On a side note, I didn't like how Dagan and Rayvis were swept aside in favor of Bode. Really wish we'd gotten more development for Dagan specifically, especially after the trailers featured him so much.
You have to remember these are story games trying to fit into the canon timeline. So they’re not going to let the player choose a definitive path for the character in canon. It would get messy. They obviously have a character arc and specific direction they’re taking cal in. At the begging of the game you can see he has kind of become cold and detatched, and he’s so hyperfocused on taking on the insurmountable empire that he’s beginning to lose himself. Bode represents someone who experienced intense trauma at the hands of the empire just like cal and let it rule his life. Dagan fits well into that as well, cal sees the similarities between Dagans search for tanalor driving him mad and his own journey with the empire. The threat throughout the whole game is losing yourself to a fight you can never win. Which is why tanalor represents the good ending where they can all just live out their lives and not have to fight the empire anymore at risk of losing who they are. The fight itself becoming about tanalor between two former Jedi who really only want the same thing but have just both gone down their own separate paths to get there. I find it cool and kind of poetic that cal is driven to this point and it shows the overall desperation and state of the galaxy. The empire truly cannot be escaped and the darkness as well. In regards to kata, it’s implied that she recognizes her fathers wrongdoing. She immediately assumes her dad has done something wrong when you meet her, she seems frightened by him. His screaming of “Kata!” Before he knows cal has arrived on tanalor also implies a somewhat abusive relationship. Sure she’s a kid but it’s made clear she has some understanding of the messed up circumstances that her dad has put her in. Accepting cal and Merrin so quickly is a little odd but her dad showed trust in cal up until the end when he became too stubborn, presumably kata knows her dad well and knows he will act that way and be destructive.
Nah, I thought the ending worked. Dark Side power makes you INCREDIBLY overpowered and makes difficult fights easier. It’s quicker, easier, more seductive. And Cal’s flirting with the dark side is absolutely foreshadowed and earned. The whole reason Surgiveo starts off with the Mantis free slips up is because he started to get more vengeful and obsessed with fighting the Empire, using whatever means necessary (even while justifying the means with the ends) The post-story game stuff is a little weird, true, but there’s plenty of awkward conversations you can prompt where they dance around the issue of her dad going evil, threatening even Kata’s well being, Cal being responsible for Bode’s death, etc. And it’s all just set dressing to acknowledge the last major story beat, it’s not meant to give you any kind of post-story closure or develop anything major. Considering the shock and trauma to what just happened, Bode clearly flipping out, and the Mantis crew being the only people she knows (remember, on the run and in hiding with the ISB), it works fine
this game was perfect to me, I cried my eyes out at the ending scene. Bode was such a good twist, and I had anger in my heart for that betrayal, the game sucked me in. sometimes you nitpicking in a way that seems to be just for controversy and views, it doesn’t feel like it’s for true criticism.
I agree the ending doesn't work....yet. But I'm holding off judgement until we see the next game. I think it is probably envisioned as a trilogy. Look at the original trilogy of star wars movies. The first one told a really simple and mostly self-contained story, the second one told a more complicated story that ended very non-traditionally, with Vader dropping a confusing truth bomb and then beating our hero who basically runs away without processing any of that. The third movie then builds on those revelations and wraps things up in a mostly satisfying way (minus the space teddy bears). I could see this going a similar way.
I was also tripped up by the dark side stuff the same way as you, but I think it's because the story choices aren't really on us in this game like they would be in an RPG like KOTOR or even something like oldschool Jedi Knight. Back then, they didn't really care what happened in things like spin-off games, but now everything is canon, canon, canon. Thus, Cal's arc is that he gives in to some dark side temptation at this point, and we're just the ones who have to push the buttons to make it happen. The business with Bode's daughter also stuck out to me. Going into the endgame, the biggest mystery I was trying to figure out was how they were going to arrange everything to make a satisfying ending with her. Well, turns out she's been kinda put off by her Dad for a while, and Merrin is really nice to her. I am going to be very not surprised if she's not Cal's padawan/Merrin's apprentice in the next game. It would match the arc of the games to have Cal go from Padawan, to Jedi Knight, to Jedi Master (while probably struggling with the darkside in the meantime.) Maybe we'll get a Red Dead Redemption moment, and Vader will finally catch up to Cal, and Kata will suddenly become our playable character, but with Cal AND Merrin's powers at her disposal.
I think the dark side wasn't a mechanic or something for Cal to worry about until Bode betrays you and kills Cere. He had it all under control until that and he starts losing it. Around the same time he also starts to worry that he is becoming obsessed with Tanalor just like Dagan. Kind of a double whammy for Cal's mental state. They don't give you a choice about using the dark side because this is the story they want to tell so you have no agency there. At the end, Cal is in a weird place. It feels a bit like Empire's ending. I agree Bode's daughter takes his death well. I get the impression she didn't know him very well because he was always away doing missions for the ISB. So, when he goes evil in front of her and Cal and Merrin save her she knows who the good guys are.
Fallen Order is 5 years after RotS and 14 years before Rogue One & New Hope. Survivor is about 10 years after RotS and 9 years before ANH, concurrent with Kenobi and 4-5 years before Andor. There are hints at Cal's darkness throughout the game, his choice to attack the Ninth Sister out of a desire of revenge instead of retreating, choosing a headstrong rebellion instead of e.g. Cere's idea of saving lives and building the network so that the rebellion can have a logistical base, realizing he's becoming like Dagan Gera and obsessive about Tanalorr, etc. Kata was obviously aware of the fact that her dad had been deteriorating and becoming a danger, even to her, so she's not overjoyed at being with you, she's quiet and maybe even a bit depressed, but she doesn't hate you. The next game will, I guarantee you, deal with the consequences of Cal's actions. "Cere won her battle with the dark side, you will too."
You can pull off the beard...I initially thought the microphone was the hilt of a lightsaber and thought "hmm... that's an apt decoration" and then you said it was a mic and I felt embarrassed about my lack of AV equipment recognition skills...good luck with the move.
It was foreshadowed though. Cal was talking to Merrin (or Cere, I forgot which one) he was mentioning how he was scared of losing himself. Cere/Merrin basically reassured him that they’ll bring him back from whatever he may face. Later on we get the first “embrace the darkness” sequence.
The daughter part is weird but I think the dark side aspect is just showing how cal hasn't really been a Jedi this whole time and really just a force user that has a good cause I mean Jedi shouldn't have attachment because it leads to the dark side and half way through the game cal has a girlfriend. Plus him being told not to use the darkside is odd because the night sisters and their power is directly tied to the dark side but like cal she is just a force user that has a good cause. I thought it was a perfect insight to the lore because it shows unlike the Jedi before order 66 this new generation of force users aren't being held hostage by the code of Jedi or night sisters and will probably continue this trend with the child
In terms of timeline stuff and clearing that all up, Fallen Order is five years after Episode III, and Survivor is five years after that. Which I want to say puts Jedi: Survivor concurrently with the Kenobi show.
I feel like the whole Cal going to another planet away from the empire feels like a cop out , like here’s why you don’t see him interacting with other OG characters etc . I wasn’t satisfied with the ending
1. Keep the beard 2. Fallen Order takes place 5 years after Revenge of the Sith (14 BBY), Survivor takes place 5 years after Fallen Order (9 BBY), meaning it takes place in the same year as the Kenobi series. Kinda cool that Vader and especially the Hidden Path were prominent in both projects. 3. I think the dark side's inclusion makes sense. Cal and the crew, Merrin in particular, talked about how he's been throwing himself into the fight, but Merrin points out that the fight, "the fire," can burn out of control and destroy everything. Cere also mentions how she remembers an age where the Jedi were more than just weapons, but Cal only knows a life of war and survival. Through his life, he keeps losing people: Jaro Tapal, Prauf, his crew at the beginning of Survivor, Cordova, and then Cere. And to cap it off, the last two deaths were a result of a fairly deep betrayal. So I believe that he would snap and give into the dark side after all of that. I probably would myself. 4. I agree that taking Bode's kid and more or less raising her after you killed her father in front of her is an odd choice narratively. But, within the scenario they set up, they don't really have any options besides just abandoning her. Since she's a force sensitive child who needs someone to take care of her and guide her, Cal is really the only option.
I really think Bode was the sloppiest part of the game and it really brought everything down. It couldve been fine but all of the writing for him just felt like nothing was thought out. The entire game after he rejoins on Koboh, hes automatically suspicious. You barely spend any time with him and it just feels absurd that hes so easily accepted into the gang since hes the newbie and ESPECIALLY because hes someone new to Cere and the others. Sure, "a friend of Cal's is a friend of ours" and "i couldnt sense anything from him", but like lol the hidden path and these group of survivors didnt think ONCE to vet this guy. Every time he joins up to help with anything, my thought was "hes either going to betray us or die." It was giga obvious the night before the betrayal and after the Dagan fight. The game also treats us as besties and "brothers" when we've also barely fought much together. Merrin spends more time with us, i feel, and we got the justifiable amount of development there - but not with bode. Hes not my "brother", hes barely a party member. If the game's design leaned more towards having a partner off main story missions, his betrayal wouldve felt more convincing just ever so slightly because we'd be more convinced that these two have a bond now. Unfortunate lack of "show, not tell". And lastly Bode's logic is just trivial to me. Yes what hes been through has been tragic, but like you and Kata having a planet all to yourselves? I guess theres more risk if you went with the hidden path/survivors but like, this wouldve worked. You couldve escaped easily. You couldve talked to Cal about this. You see find a force echo that he wanted to, so he definitely thought to but made the selfish choice. It just feels like theres more good in not doxxing these good people than not. He was probably mirroring Dagan's distrust of the jedi peers as a theme, but iunno 🤷♂️. Sorry its so long, i had to rant lol. Enjoyed the game tho tbh. Wish it was in the oven longer because there were so many technical issues in performance.
I agree and felt pretty much the same way at first, but now I see it this way. Cal was getting beat within an inch of his life and tapped into the dark side to save himself, kinda like how Luke did the same to beat Vader. But they both chose the "light side option" when presented with an important decision to make right after tapping into the dark side momentarily. Luke refused to kill Vader and Cal gave Bode a second chance to be there for Kata. And maybe for the Kata taking her dad's death so well... She did say that the death of her mom really changed her dad, so maybe she knew that Bode wasn't the same good guy she used to know, and that helped her cope? Idk, like, if I saw my dad transform into a terrible person who seriously hurt others, even as a little kid I might understand quickly why someone would stop him.
Jedi: Fallen Order takes place 5 years after Revenge of the Sith, Jedi: Survivor takes place 5 years later the same year as the Kenobi show; which is 9 years before Rogue One/A New Hope, there's a 19 year time gap between Revenge of the Sith and Rogue One/A New Hope. This period of time was known as the dark times since it was the peak of the Empire's power and influence, and the Jedi were being hunted down by Vader and the Inquisitors but by the time of the beginning of the Rogue One events nearly all the known Jedi survivors had been killed and the Inquisitors had ceased to exist because they had no more use to the Empire. On the High Republic side Dagan Gera was a created for this game and is not in the books or comics so as not to make gamers feel they needed to read the High Republic materials, all gamers and anyone else need to know is that the High Republic was the golden age renaissance for the Jedi and Republic that took place in the 5 centuries before The Phantom Menace and that's it.
Cordova and Cere dying and the whole Jedi Archive (Cere’s new purpose) being destroyed, and on top of that it was Bode’s betrayal that caused all of it. Cal finally had something great going and then it’s taken away again, with people dying tragically - yeah I’d say that’s enough for Cal’s anger to bubble over into Dark Side territory
Hey Nando! I love love love your content but I think you missed the mark on this one. Jedi: Survivor isn’t an RPG! It’s a story that’s got a distinct path set for Cal and the player, and it’s clear that Cal’s story in the third installment will largely be about Cal fighting his own darkness and finding a new path. I think this is an expectations vs reality moment. Because I knew this is a game without those types of role playing decisions, I knew that I had to “embrace my dark side.”
So a month late, hi, but Bode doesn't actually have a lightsaber. After you kill Dagan Gera, Bode stays behind for a bit. It's during this time that he takes Dagan Gera's lightsaber, so that's the explanation there (you also can go back to that area post-story and there's a force echo that says he took it) Now the high republic stuff, I'm not an expert but from my understanding the High Republic was a golden age for the galaxy with a ton of technological advances and an age of information. It also was during a time in which Jedi were thriving. So thematically it's in there so 1. We can get the info about Tanalorr 2. Cal can continue his Jedi training and get his new abilities in a believable way Finally, the dark side stuff. This is actually alluded to the entire game as from very early on we free Dagan Gera and witness his shift to the Dark Side. On the flip side, we then meet up with Cere afterwards whom we know from the last game fell to the Dark Side and has now come back to the Light. Thus this shows us that redemption IS possible when given the chance to someone open to change. So then as we go on, Cal keeps trying to reason with Dagan and later Bode and he can't get through to them and loses people over and over again and essentially has everything he's worked towards stripped away from him. Cal finally breaks on Nova Garon and let's the Dark Side in due to his rage, anger, and hatred towards Bode. It's only through his love for Merrin that he is able to pull himself back. We also lose to Bode the 1st time and we can infer Bode is quite powerful with the Force due to him being able to hide his Force signature or whatever like Palpatine did from the Jedi. So in the final battle, Cal realizes he's not strong enough to defeat Bode while holding back and he has to let loose but this time, he does so with purpose. He's not succumbing to the Dark Side like before and instead channeling it towards the single goal of defeating Bode and he knows Merrin can pull him back if he starts to go too far (they even have a conversation about this very thing beforehand) This all leads me to believe, if we get a 3rd game that Cal will begin training Kata and Cal may even master the same fighting style as Mace Windu which actually uses bits of the Dark Side in it (I don't remember the specifics off the top of my head but we're on the internet, you can look it up. It's very hard to do this fighting style)
NANDO! This is your regular reminder to make that “why I don’t do One Small Change videos anymore” video! I’m sure you’ve got a good reason, but man, I miss them. The final beat of The Thor Detour literally made me tear up…
One of the major problems with Jedi: Survivor is that it completely doesn't understand how the Force works. In Star Wars the "Dark" and "Light" sides of the Force are very clearly defined by the actions of those who align with them. Dark Side users serve themselves, fueled by fear, rage, and pain, and driven with a lust for power, to be the most powerful, unbeatable, and they will always fear of losing that power. Light Side users serve others, we see this very often with the Jedi, they will go on diplomatic missions, facilitate negotiations, assist in mercy efforts, etc. They take the duty of helping others upon themselves. They are driven by emotions of compassion, love, and empathy, and they must be careful not to allow compassion for one to turn into hatred for others. These are two very clearly defined ways of using the Force, and these are the rules that govern it. That being said, what the game labels as "Dark Side" powers just aren't. It's just you using the Force to defend yourself. You don't turn to the Dark Side because some maniac is trying to choke you out. It isn't something you can be forced into doing. Cere's use of the Dark Side in Fallen Order made sense both times. She was enraged first by what had been inflicted on Trilla, then at her betrayal, and again at the thought of that happening to children around the galaxy. Cal just... gets angry I guess? He doesn't seem to think that staying a Jedi will leave him unable to protect Merrin. Now that I think about it part of me thinks that's what the original concept for the theme was supposed to be. Having his whole B-team getting iced on the first mission would have been a mildly acceptable way to start that feeling of not being able to protect people, and then have other characters being regularly hurt throughout the rest of the story as well. This would Cal to feeling unable to defend those closest to him, and trying desperately to correct that mistake, trying to hone his combat skills to be absolutely perfect, but it's never enough. That emotional low would have been the perfect time to introduce Dagan as a teacher, somebody who would offer to teach Cal, promising that he'll be strong enough to protect everyone. That would have been much more interesting. Too bad they chose to scrap that idea.
This isn't an RPG. It has RPG elements such as skill trees, but it isn't an RPG. The story is linear. Also, it's very implied that kata didn't recognize her father anymore, and probably thought he was possessed by a demon or something.
Went to the comments to see if anyone told Nando that Fallen Order is 5 years after Ep 3 and Survivor's 5 years after that. And also that Bode's "Lightsaber" is actually Dagan's that he stole...
Bearded Nando is my new head canon Mando! As soon as the dark side prompt came up, I checked if it had multiple endings and was confused about the dark side implementation. As for the ending, I wonder if there was a "The Last of Us, God of War are super popular, we need to have Cap raise a child in the 3rd game but we don't want him to knock his gf up so, stolen war child it is.
Cal loses his friends and decapitates an inquisitor in his rage in the opening of the game. Then Bode actually reminds him that killing his enemies isn’t the maneuver. Dagan Gera is also a mirror for Cal’s ambition, power, obsession and it’s dark potential. I think your major complaint is that you wanted to have the choice to be a hero who doesn’t falter but that isn’t Cal’s story. You don’t get important story decisions in this franchise. It’s more akin to a long-form participatory Star Wars show with aesthetics you can stylize to your own taste.
Maybe it's just me but the part where Bode betrays you didn't make much sense to me either - so Cal wants to go to Tanalorr to hide from the Empire and build a new Jedi order - cool. Bode is like "no, I want to go to Tanalorr to hide from the Empire also, so now I will betray you" Buh? Dude it's a whole ass planet, that the Empire doesn't know about and has no way to get there, you can share it??
Like a lot of others. I think this game isn't about choice. This is about what cal's story is. This game being about choice wouldn't make sense becuse what you are playing isn't a game where you should make that choice. What they did was make you take the reins into your own hands so you could feel the power behind Cal's decision. He has already decided what he is going to do, all you are doing is letting him do it. Consider the God of War 3 Game, where you get to beat Zeus to a pulp forever if you really want. But it doesn't stop you from not beating him to a pulp. It just lets you see and act out the anger and frustration Kratos has towards Zeus. This is that but with less button prompts. We have to realize that even though this is a story about good and evil. Not everyone in that genre lets you act out which part you want.
Its clear where this story is going. Its going to be another Kratos and Atreus dynamic. Cal is going to train Kata and hopefully Merrin will teach her some Nightsister Magik just like Atreus was taught in the GOW series.
My biggest problem is with bode. The ending is so half assed. My literal first thought when playing the ending was "did they just run out of ideas?" I enjoyed every part of this game except the ending
I think the narrative in this game isn’t all that great, I spent a lot of time on my phone during cutscenes because I knew exactly what was going to happen next. Gameplay wise it was really solid and I love all of the new side characters like Skoova and Caij but the story was pretty predictable
I think you just didn't understand what the game was going for at the end with the dark side stuff. I understand the initial instinct to assume the game is tricking you with this but aside from that the game is a linear story. This wasn't meant to be a roleplay option with branching paths it was the game saying "Cal is hurt and angry and is starting to lean into the dark side." The game was using its mechanics to enhance a story beat. I wouldn't say it comes out of nowhere either a big part of Cere's arc in the last game was about her struggling with the dark side and this game references her warning to Cal that every Jedi faces that dark side at some point. Plus if you just look at how Cal acts through the whole game he's very impatient and obsessive when it comes to fighting the empire or finding Tanalor and the game points that out. I imagine Cal's struggles with the dark side will be a big part of his arc in the next game and things will be more fleshed out there. Assuming these games are meant to be a trilogy I see this as the Empire Strikes Back for Cal, its his low point where a lot of bad stuff just happened and we aren't certain where things are gonna go next.
Hey I hope all these comments that are contesting your point of the video don't get ya down. While I also may not agree with you here, I still enjoy your content and typically align with or find your perspective convincing. May be that you don't let comments get to ya but just wanted to say that in case they did, I still think you and your content are great
I hate the terrible story trope of kill every single soldier following orders but spare the man who made the decision and orders... If I killed a thousand men up to this point why is Merrin telling me this is not who I am? Do those people's lives not matter? Get with the stories trying to tell me this is this is what gamers who want to pretend like they're really smart call ludonarrative dissonance.
I kinda disagree, but it very heavily depends on what they do with the dark side thing in the third game. If they just brush it aside, then I fully agree. But if they're going for a gray Jedi kinda thing, it could make sense
I really really really hate when games direct you to do this one thing to move the plot forward and you only have ONE choice in the gameplay to do so …. So annoying to be that controlled … it’s not a game you’re playing at that point - it’s a game that’s playing you.
Yeah I'm with everyone in the comments I thought the dark side thing was foreshadowed. Not massively but there was enough there for it not to come completely out of nowhere.
If you want a bit more of a satisfying story simmilar to Cal's, and more complete, watch star wars rebels, it may feel kiddish but trust me, it's imo the best story of jedi.
you were clearly not paying attention to the story the intire way threw you see call none stop facing anxiety an fear it no surprise he uses the dark side your just blind
in terms of timeline, survivor is confirmed to take place at the same time as the obi wan show (9 bby) and the first game is somewhere around 5 years prior to that
ok thoughts now that im done with the video: i agree it was strange, but i did also read the tie in book and theres a fair bit of cere being really concerned about cal and his attachments/emotions in terms of potential falling to the dark side so the whole dark side thing wasnt totally out of left field for me. theres also a lot in the book of cal questioning if the jedi were really right about those things. cere used the dark side to save him in the last game and she almost regrets it, sees it as a failing in some way not only to have used the dark side but to have done so because she was so attached to her padawan. cal however sees it as a good thing that she saved him, of course, and is equally if not more willing (as shown in this game when all his teammates die on coruscant, after cere and cordova die on jedha, and especially when bode threatens merrin) to do whatever he has to to save the people he cares about. its also made extremely clear in the book that cere is the one who wants to rebuild the jedi order while cal is mostly focused on defeating the empire and is just doing the jedi stuff bc its all he knows, and bc it makes him a very dangerous weapon against the empire. its hinted at there, and then said much more explicitly in his conversation with merrin in this game, that cal doesnt really vibe with the jedi stuff at this point. i think they’re trying to go a grey jedi route with him (unless he just goes full dark side in the next game which would of course be fun if not the most inspired storytelling), but its not really landing. it was there in the first game but REALLY obvious to me in this game that they just want to make a cal kestis movie/tv show and are sort of stuck with it being a game, and it seems like theyre working against the game mechanics instead of with them. they give you the option to do a jedi mind trick but the choices you make don’t matter, both options work the same. it feels more like im playing through a game adaptation of a movie rather than a unique new story, which is a little disappointing. still fun though, and cameron monaghan is hot and i got to put him in a little tank top this whole game so im happy lol.
I mean from the first boss battle you can tell he’s facing moral conflicts and his battle to avoid the dark side with killing inquisitors (former Jedi) and even at the end doing everything possible to avoid walking down that path of killing Bode…
Another spot where the story kinda falls apart is Dagan's motivation like obviously, we know he wants to go to Tanalor but they don't do a good job of establishing why he is so obsessed with it and at least as far as I could tell they didn't ever explain it the story just says that he is which immediately took me out of the story and made me realize he's not the main villain so I realized that Bode was gonna betray us way earlier then I believe we are supposed to.
He is a cautionary tale to Cal, it's his obsession, since he discover it and wants a temple there, like Cal is obsessed with fighting the empire. Dagan felt betrayed by the order when they rejected Tanallor and tried to keep everyone out of it, and the last thing he remembers is his passion cutting his arm off...
@@DATFilms right but that still doesn't explain the reason he wants to go there so bad. I understand his roll in the story but it doesn't change the fact that his motivations we not very flushed out. Literally all they had to do was establish that there was something there that he wanted or someone he wanted to kill or even a like of dialogue about how he wants to build a army and take over the galaxy but they didn't. It shows that he isn't the main focus of the story because they aren't putting that level of effort into his character. I'd argue that he isn't even a very good cautionary tale for Cal because we know why Cal might go that far to destroy the empire but we don't know why he's going so far for Tanalor especially considering his enemies are dead. My issue is his motivation is very surface level and the second you actually think about it the story starts to fall apart. I still love the game it just doesn't change the fact that its imperfect and I personally think the narrative for the first game was better because we understand the mindset of each major villain in that game. As far as nando's complaints about the dark side stuff tho I think its mostly setup for the 3rd game where we get a story where Cal struggles with that darker side of himself.
I feel it was very present from Fallen Order. Remember when they introduced Merrin, she was allied to a fallen Jedi who tried to temp Cal. Cal has been dealing with the horror of being unable to save people and with the trauma imposed by the order on children of distancing himself from his emotions to protect himself from fear. We saw with Anakin that doesn’t actually work, it was always a bad idea to raise kids that way. Merrin makes a point of it to Cal on Kobo a few times trying to get past his, “On to the next thing,” sense of momentum. It only hits him that she might be right when he sees an actual friend who he relates to has gone that way, someone who sees himself in, and he realizes how close he’s already gotten to being Bode. So the dark side stuff, to me, seemed to fit perfectly with his arc. I did take issue though with the dark side powers stating after I finished the game. He should be better now … right? You good Cal?
