I hated the way that Working Designs localized otherwise great games so much I started learning how to read Japanese so I wouldn't have to rely on clowns like them anymore. Probably about the time I felt confident enough in my linguistic skills to go through a game on my own without having to troll the internet for answers/guides/patches, WD shut their doors.
Wow, you were really here back then? I think that was when Censored Gaming was still doing just side by side comparisons with no commentary or anything!
I am still so conflicted. WD was so bad, but back when I was a kid, I loved them for even bringing these games out west back then. Guess that's what cognitive dissonance feels like.
No. Localisation's purpose is not to denature the original content, in fact it's all about making it understandable to the target audience. Good localisation is pretty close to "original works" in theory. The kind of shit described in this video is bad loc that was just common in the nineties, mainly because the target audience was miscalculated, companies were going for cheap instead of quality, and there weren't as many dedicated tools as today. A good example would be Japanese cultural references in manga: In the 90's most of these were replaced with western equivalents while now they assume a manga reader knows who Doraemon and Kenshiro are and keep the references with the addition of a translation footnote.
Do you get that these jokes by working design werent in the japanese game in the first place? If anything they censored the original to put in unnecessary adult jokes in
I'm not particularly bothered by this, from what he said they were prioritizing those jokes (rather bad ones at that) over actual translation accuracy. Heck I know there's people who would consider that censorship in the first place.
It's not like the Japanese don't insert innuendo in there own media, What kills me is localisation teams adding it to titles that don't necessarily have that type of humour originally, yet they will remove it from other titles. The peeping Tom seen from one of the breath of Fire games comes to mind.
so if you play a story based game and want to share it with someone in a different language region, you are fine if they have a drastically different experience from you because it's totally fine to abuse creative rewrite?
Mad Lust Envy hothead jerk = level headed reserved character ?? adding jokes where none existed ?? thats abuse of creative rewrite and not actually giving the same/similar experience between regions. ppl who are charged with bringing something from one region to another should never position themselves higher than the author/creator, true of any medium.
Jō Don Yeah it would be fine for a "Silly Mode" but when I buy a game, I expect the original team's vision. It's the reason I get annoyed by censorship in the first place, not because I need dirty jokes and tits everywhere.
I loved Working Designs translations, crude jokes included. But other times, I think they wouldn't fit the setting. Like the topical humor of certain time periods in the USA in the late 90's early 2000's in a fantasy setting is kind off putting. None the less, WD will go down as one of the best publishers we had the pleasure of existing.
I always hated Working Design's translations, but at the time beggars couldn't be choosers. The jokes and references age very poorly and at the time lots of people outside USA had no idea what a Tootsie Pop was for example, making the lick reference a complete head-scratcher. The Clinton reference in Lunar annoys me to this day.
I dunno how many Working Designs I have but I have The Adventures of Alundra(although Working Designs isn't mentioned anywhere on the box or Manual) as long as the main point of the plot is there I honestly don't care how many liberties are taken I like jokes and humour(the dirtier the better) in my games no matter what the situation in game is.
Remember that the English dub of Ghost Stories had nothing to do with the original, and thus we remeber it... If it had been true to the original, no one would remeber it (the original dialogue and story was shit).
Gego/XAREN ゲゴザレン I remember ghost stories. My friend bought it on a whim years ago at a convention, and at the end of the weekend we watched the whole series. It was hilarious. Afterwards, we thought "there's no way that's the original dialogue" and we switched the DVD to Japanese to see what the differences were. It was meh.
That's also cause the original team asked them to do whatever they could to make it popular overseas. This game is a completely different case from Ghost Stories.
Love ‘em or hate ‘em, we all got the chance to play great games outside of Japan thanks to Working Designs. Even still, I keep wondering how Far East of Eden 2 - already a game with insane dialogue - would have been like when plowed with WD’s dirty humor.
I don't think I do agree, I understand that these people want to be creative but it's not their licence or their work they're playing around with and it seems disrespectful to the original creators, their intentions and the audience who don't get to experience this authorial intent, instead being subjected to cringeworthy puns and innuendos, I dont neccessarily think the game is better for having jokes about sucking dick. there's a double standard when it comes to this sort of stuff, nobody likes it when a political agenda or contemporary western issue is shoehorned in a localisation of Japanese media, ask fans of Kobayashi maid dragon of they're happy about the recent English dub for that anime, most probably aren't. So it would be hypocritical to let this sort of thing become the norm just because someone might enjoy a complete bastardisation of the original script. I appreciate them wanting to stand out but if they want to stand out with their writing they should either seek a blessing from the Japanese devs or focus their efforts into their own original project. Maybe those are unrealistic goals and I understand that's not how business always works, but it's what I'd personally prefer. I wouldn't advocate removing them though, I mean if they've already been hired to do the job and they've stated their goals then fair enough, that's what they're paid to do, removing their expression is still censorship and censorship is still bad.
If they change plot points, that's one thing, but replacing boring, dull lines with jokes (or attempt at jokes) that's fine. You make it sound like the original text was Shakespearean, when it's just a mundane line that means nothing.
I could condone changing a joke to another joke of a similar nature, but changing a non joke line to a joke changes the mood of the scene. In my opinion a translation is always better than a localization.
Sebastian not really especially when certain things are flat out not going to translate right that's why i never mind when they do changes like that especially if it's a really boring cutscene
Don't know why people are quite so bothered about the translation they did for this game. It works out fine, though I DID think certain characters would come out with some pretty random sentences, and 'modern' ones at that. By that I mean sometimes the characters lines wouldn't really 'fit' the atmosphere of the game. A fantasy game with a surfer dude called Bonnaire, the "hunk of man-beef" who couldn't be bothered with a girl's affection, even though she was offering her "heaving bosom" to him! 🤔😁 THAT was pretty random, for sure! ✌🏼😄👌🏼
Twist my testicles into a tie ! It would actually reignite my long lost JRPG interest if localizers and developers put in more sexual jokes and overall potty humor :) I am 25 and the last JRPG new to me I actually completed was... I am pretty sure it was the original Shadow Hearts. I used PCSX2 to emulate it... and since then I really can't get myself into them anymore. Probably has something to do with a trauma I sustained due to ACTUALLY completing FF XIII. I know, don't bother counseling me on the matter. Too much shit went south since then.
Given how "localization" is done these days in [current year]... i would kill to have some Working Designs localizing again. Ideally, i'd prefer a balance of translation + localizing (where needed and if it works). Given the comments i'm seeing tho.. people have seriously lost thier funny bone. We live in sad times...
The edit is justified and tasteful as opposed to spelling it out like menstruating Harley Quinn instagram.com/p/BZFW-jgjMP4/ I feel working designs aged poorly though I only remember Albert Odyssey as lunar has so many versions now. Did like fighting through the darkness opening only in their Sega cd version
I don't think this is censorship per se, more so than it looks like employees fucking around and trying to have fun with their job. Seems like they were fucking around with the dialogue depending on the context, rather than the intent of trying to censor things.
I remember Working Designs, they did top notch packaging and extras for the games but their "translations" left much to be desired as these were in some occasions complete rewrites filled with pop culture references that are dated and out of place. I really don't care for jokes about Bill Clinton on my fantasy JRPGs.
As another note, thanks for covering my top game of all time that took me fucking childhood to adulthood to beat. Hardest game in the first playstation.
Alundra, my favourite PS1 game. I adored Link To The Past on SNES which I never owned either of... 😞 But when I randomly bought Alundra, it was like a fucking light in my life! Pretty much a clone of Link To The Past really, and I adore it STILL! Playing it right now actually, and in the 26 years I've had it, I WILL FUCKING COMPLETE IT THIS TIME! There's always been a problem at some point when I've been playing it (and I've almost completed it too!), either my PS1 or PS3, or even the original PS1 memory card have all broken at some point whilst I've been playing it. NOT THIS TIME AROUND THOUGH!🤔 📀🖥🎮 🤘🏼😈👍🏼
Are there different english translations of this game? I saw a youtube playthrough where one of the sailors comments the crack in the wall to Alundra's room with something like "I'll get to it when we've finished this bottle of grog". But in my version he says "I'm not in a hurry".
Generally I would much rather get an accurate translation over amusing rewrites but there are some cases where I would much prefer an amusing rewrite instead of the original. Ghost Stories for example was an awful anime and they, being aware of that fact, requested that ADV Films do whatever it took to try and get the dub to sell which is how we got the hilarious dub for the series. If the translation team wanted to take the time to do it, I wouldn't mind if they put in a IWHBYD skull style easter egg that would activate alternate dialogue.
I would have been ok with this sort of localization, at least they tried to do something that was funny and humorus for the main target demographic. I would have liked to have a localization that is close to the Japanese original while slipping in a few jokes for fun and enjoyment in a teen humor sort of way only during the side quests. Just least the original story as it was translated in Japanese on par with it. Censorship is always to be avoided so if you are forced to take something out, make sure what you put in really pushes the envelope.
Didn't know a company like this existed and finding out about this now is awesome to see, the jokes were kind of funny...I kind of wonder to myself what would happen if they had translated Final Fantasy VII for PS1? The cross-dressing scene would've been a goldmine of comedy for them, to be honest...
This is the reason why I fell that, if translators are forced to change something due to bullshit "cultural differences" then they should at least be allowed to make these kinds of jokes.
I'm okay with this sort of "liberal" localizations if it is limited to NPCs and maybe flavor text. When it comes to the actual story and characters keep it as close to the original as possible.
Ah yes WD´s shenanigans. Still remember being completely baffled and afterwards foaming at the mouth for what they did to Magic Knight Rayearth. Why they thought it was a good idea to insert their special brand of humor in a game thats set in a established setting,in turn going completely against the known characters,was beyond me.
Working Designs was amazing. Damnit I miss Lunar. That said knowing now that they changed games "for the lulz" would annoy the shit out of me today. If it isn't in the original Japanese game I don't want it added for no reason. If the jokes are there in JP but made more NA/EU "understandable" I could be OK with that. Because we all know how fucked up Japan is and we'll never understand their culture.
The games WD brought over were good, but I really don't like this. The job is translation or localization. Not to rewrite the game with sex jokes and pop culture references. It's one thing if the original game has that tone, but this feels disrespectful to both the original developers and to the customers. I want you to bring over a game I can't play because it's not released in my country or my language. If you want to do alternate dialogue like that, make it a menu option or an unlockable. Like the "toilet paper" dub in Tenchu 3.
The vast majority of Working Designs' localization jokes (at least, of this caliber) were in out-of-the-way places, items, and characters that weren't absolutely essential to the plot. I became a huge fan of theirs with the original Lunar: Silver Star on Sega CD because I loved the humor (no matter how bad) that was a sort of mini-reward for exploring outside the main path. While I got into the habit of "Talk to everyone" from older JRPGs like Dragon Warrior, Ultima: Exodus and Final Fantasy 1, Lunar was the first game that really made me enjoy trying to interact with absolutely everything, from bookshelves and dressers to boxes and carts, something that sadly gets overlooked even in modern RPGs. In-game libraries - like the library of Vane in Lunar: Silver Star - were among the best examples for this. Every bookshelf could be interacted with in at least two spots (four for double-sided ones), and each spot had something witty, snarky, silly, or dumb to say, from oddball punny or fourth wall-breaking book titles to comments made by the party (or, in rare cases, nearby NPCs). I always found this rather ingenious as it made libraries more than just a room full of books the player could never interact with, but which were said to store so much knowledge. So yes, there are jokes that earn facepalms and even cringes, but there are also jokes that were also quite good. It's always up to the player to decide if seeking out all the jokes is worth the extra exploration or not. I know they weren't for absolutely everyone, but as a player who loves to explore the in-game world, they were definitely for me, and they only improved my love of both the Lunar series (well, the two main ones, anyway) and Working Designs themselves. Hell, I still own a large collection of their games (if I had picked up a Saturn, I'd have gotten those games, too). :) I dunno. I may be in the minority here, but Working Designs going under was a huge loss to me (especially since one of my favorite indie tabletop RPG companies, Guardians of Order, went under around the same time). Granted, that Alundra joke might have been a bit far to stretch for humor, but considering how many games they ported and localized before then, sometimes it happens.
"I always found this rather ingenious as it made libraries more than just a room full of books the player could never interact with, but which were said to store so much knowledge." You don't know much about how it works, uh? Sorry to burst your bubble, localization only involves replacing text, not modifying the game's content. Most translators don't know how to code shit. If there were interactions and dialogs there, it was put by developers and may have been lore or characterisation as far as we know.
I understand perfectly how it works. The first Shining Force had attempted to make their bookshelves interesting in a similar fashion, but the titles were bland, unappealing, and didn't really inspire that sense of exploration one might want to have - whether they are the actual original translations or localizations, I don't know. Lunar - with Working Designs' influence - made it humorous and fun to walk through a library and press A on everything. For all I know, the original Lunar dialogue in those sections were not as appealing when directly translated, like Shining Force (possibly. Again, I don't know if those were direct translations of the original texts). I much preferred what Working Designs did for it. EDIT: I admit I may have misspoken (miswritten?) in the original quote you were responding to. It was more of a generalization towards what libraries symbolize than in Lunar's particular case.
I'm actually currently playing through Lunar for the first time and I love the atmosphere that the dialogue sets. If it was all straight to the point as RPGs often are it would have felt a lot more serious and emo but instead it's fun and playful and the standard RPG tropes aren't as noticeable or annoying when characters aren't acting as they usually do in these games. It also makes the darker parts of the story seem even more sinister when something's threatening the people that you've had a lot of laughs with. All in all I'll have to say that the Working Design translations of games are a lot more memorable than just about all other localizations and at that point I don't really care about faithfulness. I play games to have fun and be entertained.
+Tanerion Didn't think of it that way, but that definitely does apply. :) Are you playing the Sega CD version or a later port? Although the Sega CD version is rough around the edges (as many RPGs suffered from in the early 90s), it comes off as an overall darker story than the PS1 Complete port (not sure about the Saturn, though I think that's closer to the PS1 version). I actually much prefer the Sega CD version, but I do appreciate what the later ports did in terms of character additions and modifications to the overall game. If you need an example of what I mean, I can give you one very significant one, but only if you're past a certain point in the story (as it is a HUGE spoiler).
I own the Sega CD version but can't play it till I get my JVC X'Eye fixed. I'm European and Lunar never got released here so when I got a debug PS3 that's backwards compatible with PS1 and PS2 games from all regions I just went and bought a bunch of games that were never released here and among them were the Lunar games. Best not give any spoilers in case there are some people here that might want to play it.
Gaijinworks had the best localizations. Thankfully they came back as Gaijinworks. They almost got Summon Night 6 through Sony approval for those who want more Gaijinworks goodness.
Gaijinworks is not Working Designs. It's a new company that was started up by Victor Ireland, that doesn't make it Working Designs. Gaijinworks has been around since the reimagining of Blaster Master on Wiiware.
It's a shame the man is still working in the industry. Why bother even translating games if all you're doing is replacing the original tone, with whatever you find funny? Taking some liberties to make text flow better is fine, but they just take it a step too far. Thankfully they only work on somewhat obscure games like Summon Nights and Class of Heroes. It'd be terrible if they worked on something like Trails.
Correct me if i´m wrong. But translating from Japanese is not very straight forward. Just translating the words would leave a mess of words that does not make a lot of sense. So you have to interpret them, aka change them so that they mean as close to the same in English (or my native language Swedish). This means that it also might replace the original tone. One example of this is the translation of harry potter to Swedish. The Tom Riddle transformation to I´m lord voldemort would never work in Swedish. So to get around it the I am lord Voldemort is actually in Latin in the Swedish translation. Aka Ego sum Lord Voldemort. Anyway, I´m saying that any translation could be looked upon as replacing the original tone if you look at as you do. I tent to not try to go for translations when I know the original language, but I also only know 2 so :) But since they do state that it´s not a 1-1 translation, you then have the possibility to not buy it.
I don't remember any stigma. RPGs, and back then they were only RPGs because western developed RPGs were almost non existent on consoles, they were what everyone talked about. Anyone that wasn't a little baby anyways. They've only recently gotten bashed more because gaming has become so mainstream and dude bros think gaming is only for them. But whatever. I just never remember anyone bashing JRPGs in the 90's. If you didn't own a copy of FF7, you were a loser.
Maybe a social one, but outside breaking laws, I tend to give middle fingers to all who care about social stigmas. I would rather offend all the people of this world than let all the people of this world offend me (get that reference).
Depends as long as the translation is good enough. The sexual humor though would be funny to adults but most now a days are snowflakes easily triggered people if you put a character named "Sucking Dick" in the game and aiming for teens have it explained in the manual or story
Alundra's plot was as dark as GRRM story. It involves child murder, multiple times. If a blow job joke is too much for players, the game's plot is too much for them.
I think some of the jokes are funny but most of them are pretty weak not to mention from the looks of it every character seems to be set in a similar mind set which weakens the overall story
So glad their garbage translations are consigned to the scrap heap of history. You might as well have played the Japanese versions of those games and made up the plot yourself as you'd get a similar experience less the humour of a primary school child.
Their also absurdly corny, mocking the original tone and intent - thus diminishing the work. If you like "lol that's fucking stupid" style dialogue, then more power to you - but it only solidifies a bad reputation and stigma Japanese games have long suffered from. (in large part, thanks to localizers like Working Designs) It's basically the same fucking shit 4kids used to pull - jsut making shit up to "better fit the market". obvious difference being the styles.
Possible, but then we might not have these games in the west. And what they did was not censorship. Then localized it to the market. That could be said to be worse, changing the intent of the scene. But when i was 11-14, i played their games. At least it was lunar silver star story to sega CD. Still the best game I played to this day.
