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Honestly, I never saw him all that thrilled about a chair until he sat in the Karman lol. Check the description - there’s a sale going on now if you wanna pick it up! Please consider using my link if you do. Helps the channel a lot!
Really enjoy your videos. Very informative! I recently bought a HM Gaming Embody, but have constant pain in my tailbone and lower back (no matter what adjustments I make). I was wondering if the Haworth Fern offered better support? I saw your video comparing the regular Embody vs. the Fern, but was hoping you could shed some further advice. Thanks!
Hey! The Fern has a bubble lumbar that can really fit into that lumbar area nicely and bc it’s rubber, it bends with you. Some have found it too aggressive and removed it and love it just fine. I have never removed mine as it helps with my posture as well - something the embody does not do so well (as seen in the video how I find myself slouching in the chair bc it makes it so comfortable to do so!)
So is the mesh directly on top of the cushion or is the cushion only touched when the mesh is stretched by body weight? I don't get why need to put cushion under mesh chair if it makes the seat less breathable. I also assume it's a nightmare to clean that trapped cushion. What's your thought on this?
Hey those are good points that I didn't really think about. I think the cushion being under the middle back of the seat, rather than the front lip like many mesh chairs, is meant to offset the pressure that can really accumulate under your thighs. Since the Aeron's "butt" area is little more sloped down, it creates a good amount of pressure on the thighs if you're not elevating your feet enough. My theory is that By having the Karman seat "lifted" by the cushion, your thighs aren't pressing against the mesh. The sides of the seat are still completely open, so still get solid breathability compared to a fabric chair. As for cleaning...I'm a "don't turn the chair over" kinda guy...lol
Nice review, Dan! Been following your channel for awhile now. How do you feel about Steelcase Karman not having a headrest though? This is a very important consideration for tall people like me (6'2 and 210 pounds)
I asked Steelcase about that. They're also not huge on headrests and due to the flexibly frame of the Karman, probably won't be able to put one on there :-( If you need/want a headrest, you may need to go for a different mesh chair or a different kind of chair altotgether!
Hey thanks for your reviews and information. Just FYI, I'm getting an error ("bad merchant") on your India affiliate link in this video's description. I think the issue isn't at my end (reproduced on other internet connection and device) so just letting you know. If you fix it, I'd love to use it to help you out! One question: you kind of skipped over the option for the hubless casters/wheels. Could you elaborate on what the difference between them is, and why you think the regular config would be fine despite those differences? Or please point me to a video where you do, in case I've missed it. Thanks again!
Great review, Ty .... Helped me in making decision on a new chair after Trigger chair fail that crashed me to the floor. Switching brands needless to say.
I'm probably overthinking it cause anything will be better than the cheapo chair I've been using for years, but I can't decide between this and the Amia. I leaned more towards the Amia rather than the Leap cause I don't think I want the aggressive lumbar support of the Leap, but with the Karman being out I don't know if I want fabric or mesh. For what it's worth, I get hot pretty fast and I live in Southern California where the summers can get pretty bad. What would you recommend, and is the support similar to the Amia or more aggressive like the Leap? Thanks.
Def not aggressive, but I find fabric more comfortable overall! I personally would pick the Amia over the karman bc of that! If you decide to pick up, please consider using my link as it helps the channel a lot and don’t forget to use my code for the extra 5% off!!
I hope there'll be aftermarket pad attachments that we can add to those arm rests. I don't imagine it's too difficult to create a padded cushion cover.
Great vid as always! I know there was a lot of anticipation for this chair when it was announced and it's great to hear Steelcase nailed it. How does the springiness/bounciness of the mesh compare to the Aeron?
It’s def on the firmer side, but bc it’s flat, I don’t feel as much pressure on the thighs. It really does encourage you to move in it and moves really nicely as you move
Mirror Universe Vantum: well worth the wait, so close to an S-tier by the sound of it. Chair was so attached to your body that I was surprised it didn't turn into an exoskeleton every time you stood up.
Would you say that the Mirra2 is a preferable option if I want the ability to regularly clean my chair ("booty juice" concerns). Living in Bangkok; breathable and cleanable is idea...Karman looks great, but I am concerned that it has a pad under the mesh seat.
Had a feeling the Karman would hit as the best. Really REALLY great design overall. The mesh seat pan and frame design alone just blows the rest away. Great job, Steelcase. I have a Haworth Fern now. I wish I had been able to hold out on a major purchase on a chair til this came out.
@@Ahnestly that’s good to hear from you. Mesh support and airflow is super nice to have, but I have to think of the all day use of the chair. This was a great review and gives me a good video to send to folks asking me for a great all mesh chair, which has been happening a lot lately!
Sat in both this week, the Fern is so so much better than this. You need to base how you like a chair on actual use, not from videos. LOL. Even the Leap V2 is much better than this chair in my opinion. As of today without getting good seat time in an Embody I would rank the Zody as number 1, Fern as #2 and Leap V2 as #3. Also if your Fern has the back lumbar then you should have gotten it without it, much better without it.
Hi Dan, great video. This chair cartainly peeks my intrest. You compared it to quite a few other mesh chairs but unfortunally not to the neuechair from secretlab. How does it compare? I like the headrest option for the neuechair and heared that the mesh of the neuechair feels really good. He is also a bit cheaper than the karma. What are your thoughts compairing these two chairs? Thank you
Hey, so I don't recommend the Neue as often anymore due to there being better mesh options with better warranty for just a little more money (or less money if you are willing to go used). I still really like the Neue though, and the headrest option was awesome to have!
I wouldn't risk going for the Neuechair in any case. Quite a few recent reviewers out there (on RU-vid as well) who say the mesh of it sags fast. It's cheaper, but definitely not worth its price. It's kinda getting a made-in-China knock-off reputation as well because there are other (budget) brands/models in circulation as well with pretty much the exact same build, just a different logo
I currently use a Leap V2 and was about to pull the trigger on a Fern, but now the Karman has piqued my interest (I get that they’re totally different chairs). I’m 6 ft 200lb with broad shoulders and I do all my work at a desk. In you and your assistant’s opinion, which chair should someone like me lean towards? I’m trying to find a local Steelcase dealer to try one out.
Man the fern is still my #2 choice right behind the embody (now that the embody has a headrest). I love mesh, but once I sit on fabric, I’m like ok, I think I’m a fabric kinda guy. The fern moves with you just like the Karman does. If you know you like firm seats, try the Karman. If not, go with the fern. Don’t stress too hard - great return policies on both! Please consider using my link though - helps the channel a LOT!
I noticed you had a little bit of a forward head tilt while sitting in this when you were talking about the lumbar support. I was initially thinking of getting the Embody until a) I found out I had a substantial discount from work for Steelcase and b) I watched Mike Wat's "Top 3 Reasons to Buy/Not Buy $1500 Herman Miller Embody x Logitech Gaming Chair" where he specifically talked about the upper back/neck pain he gets and how the Logitech Embody kind of encouraged the posture that hurts his/our neck/s. That's the reason I'm shopping for a new chair - I've been getting pretty bad upper back/neck pain lately from my old, decrepit, needs-to-be-burned chair. I'm between this one - because mesh - and the Gesture - because arm rests. Have you had any upper back/neck discomfort from testing out this chair at all? Were you able to sit up straight in like a "working" posture pretty easily?
Hey! If you want to control your posture more easily, I would recommend something that can tighten it. I love the Embody - it's my #1 pick, and with the headrest that Atlas Headrest made for it, it makes it near perfect for me. Check out my videos for the Embody and the Embody headrest!
Been salivating over Steelcase Gesture as my favourite for years. Karman swoops in to steal that spot on my wishlist, just as I'm about to afford and justify dropping a grand on a chair 😅
They finally released it haha. They announced it years ago it seems like. I'm debating... the steelcase Think V2 is the only chair out of many that works with my back pain, but it makes my legs fall asleep bc the cushion is so thin and bottoms out after a while of sitting on it. Wondering how this one will work for my specific back pain and also if it will limit the circulation in my legs or not
I think you'll get better circulation on the legs than most mesh chairs. But the cushion is the same as on all mesh chairs - not as cushy compared to fabric/foam chairs! The lumbar is just OK, so if you need something more suited to providing lumbar support, you can probably find something better in Steelcase, Haworth or HM's lineup!
Hey, no forward tilt. I think the classic Aerons hold up forever, but can't say about their newer remastered ones, since they moved towards plastic in the remastered Aerons! Steelcase offers a 12 year warranty on the entire chair, so it'll last at least that long!
@Ahnestly The remastered Aeron still uses metal for the frame, only a few parts are now made from a high quality plastic, instead of aluminium. Also, Steelcase's warranty is a joke. It's only 5 years in the EMEA, whereas Herman Miller still offers 12 years across the world.
Is it better than the HM Embody though? ^^ I guess not but the difference is this one is only about 60% of the price of the Embody... I have more or less the same body type as yours (maybe a little bit less gravity subordinated :D) and I have a Secret Lab Omega 2020 for 3 years now, I was super happy with it (once I got used to the -very- hard seating) but I had a bad case of piles after covid and sitting for 8-10h/day everyday from home working... And I suspect the chair to be a bit on the culprit side unfortunately. I've been looking at Embody and Fern that seem really comfortable bottom-wise ^^ But looking at your videos (thanks a lot for that! but it makes it even harder to choose now xD), I've been wondering if these types of mesh chairs wouldn't actually be better...
Ive been using this chair for about a week of full day use now and while I absolutely love the back. The seat has not been as comfortable to me, I usually end up pretty sore and excited to get out of the chair after an extended period. Did you notice anything similar with the seat or see improvements over an extended time?
Its because most reviews don't mention what the Chair actually was Made for. New research shows that sitting healthy means moving in your chair. The Karman is designed to make you move arround in your chair a lot, doing micromovements. Many people find the Chair uncomfortable exactly due to this. You are sore because its training your Back in that sense
Hello. Thanks for great content. I made a decision with your help. I got a herman miller mirra 2. And ahnestly I can't sit on it more than hour. I returned it and now I just ordered steelcase leap since it is padded design instead of mesh. ❤
@@Martincorralco leap is a decent chair. I can atleast sit on it. But nothing too crazy about leap. It's just a solid chair. Good enough. I think at least for me it's overpriced. Also I can't use it's armrest because even max height I have to stretch my arms to reach it. Lumber support is really good. Recline mechanism is not smooth like herman miller but supportive at high resistance. There is no bottom out. At least I did not experience that. For me mirra 2 backrest was amazing and way better than this but sadly it's impossible to sit in mirra more than 2 hours. With leap I can comfortably sit cross legged or one leg under. Can also strecht very well.
As much as I want a head rest. I need a comfortable and soft chair for gaming. Secret labs too firm. Embody is loud and even more expensive. The Leap seat might be too hard for my skinny body as well. This is looking like a very promising option. Since I am peak poor, SteelCase offering 24 month affirm payments really help out.
I’m looking for a chair for reclining console gaming and office desk work. The karman came up in my search. Any recommendations for me ? Would appreciate any tips. I’ll happily use your affiliate links when I purchase one
Hey! If you’re reclining, def recommend a headrest! Check out my video on “chairs with the best headrests”. Any of those I think are solid chairs. Appreciate you supporting me!!!
Great Review, Dan! I've been sitting in mine for over a week now as my every day chair and my opinion mirrors yours, definitely the best mesh chair out there! I've never really been a fan of mesh chairs until now... This going to end up being your go-to chair or are you going to stick with something else? -DC
Hey!! I'm sitting in the Karman now! I think if my new studio got hot, I would undoubtedly grab the Karman, but for now, I am sticking with the Embody as my #1 pick!!
Great question! If you like being hugged in the back, Leap v2 is the best way to go. For taller (my personal recommendation is 5'7 and up) and less hugging in the back, Gesture #1. If you want maximum breathability and don't care for hugging in the back, Karman #1. Hope this helps!! If you decide to pick up, please consider using my links!
@Ahnestly hmm, I honestly don't know if I like hugging or not. Unfortunately I'm 800km away from anywhere that has any chairs to try. I currently have a 2018(?) Secretlab Omega, which I've always found very average. So looking to upgrade to something substantially better. Unfortunately I've never sat in any of these chairs or sat in a mesh chair before 🙃
@Ahnestly thanks heaps for that! I think I'm leaning towards the Gesture at the moment then! Does your affiliate link work for Steelcase Australia? Happy to purchase using that link if so 🙂
@@auwoody98au OOOO you would be my perfect test subject...hahaha. Yes, I am an affiliate with Steelcase Australia. Would you be able to purchase via my link here and let me know when you do? I'm trying to see if my non USA Steelcase links are working! If you're able, THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! 🛒Steelcase (AUSTRALIA): geni.us/DARob
You’re an ideal height that any of these chairs would work. Think about what you need - maximum comfort - fern. Proper posture + breathability, aeron. Maximum breathability + freedom of movement, Karman. If you want a headrest, aeron and fern are your only options (I have videos on those). If you decide to pick up, please consider using my links! Helps the channel a lot!
@@Ahnestly it gets super hot in my room so i need mesh/breathability, so i dont think i could get the digital knit fern. does the atlas work with the mesh fern too? i want something to help my posture while working but that i can then recline in for gaming. do u think no headrest on the karman is a deal breaker? i like the aeron but i keeo hearing the side hurt people who are on the bigger side. will def use your link once i decide tho just trying to get more help since i dont have a place to try them out nearby
The embody is still my favorite chair. As of now, mesh is still pretty firm overall. Every time I move from mesh into a nice cushion chair, I realize how much I miss cushion. That’s why the body is still my favorite.
I'd love to see this compared to the STAPLES Hyken. I bet a lot of people are tired of the cheap chair they got in 2020 and looking to upgrade to something higher in quality. (Which is how I feel).
They're not considered competition for each other. The Hyken is 2-3 price brackets bellow the Karman, they might make a tier list together, but definitely not a direct comparison. The right ergonomic chair isn't comparable to anything other than other high end chairs. I'm using a digital knit fern and I couldn't imagine trying to daily anything else.
Dude are you stalking me? Hahaha just finished up a review - the branch ergonomic chair review should come out tomorrow. Verve chair review will come out next week.
I had an older 6'3" individual test my Karman, and he couldn't use it for more than a few minutes. The seat is simply not deep enough to fully support very tall people's thighs.
Legit. Every office and gaming chair I've sat in is uncomfortable. For reference I am 6'2. My sofa/seats in my living room are ridiculously comfortable...why can't somebody just make a smaller version that?
I'm getting really interested in trying this chair, but man steelcase is stalling or just so bad in marketing this chair and make it available for more than just US on their site also: 6:57 finally.. a wider seat for more space. love that
Steelcase in my country is non existant lmao. I've tried to contact them, but it seemed like they didn't want to sell. Got my aeron and never looked back.
Hey! I mentioned multiple times that my assistant who is 6’2 loves the chair, so yes! If you decide to pick up, please use my link and coupon code! Helps the channel a lot!
It's more silq than Gesture. Ofcourse the Silq's back shape has inspirations from Gestures tapered back. It looks stunning, the weight activation is spot on. Lumbar isn't too functional.
@@melissavoorheis4612 true, true ! The lumbar in my opinion didn't match with the design of the chair. I've always showcased the chair to clients without lumbar, the natural curvature of the back provides optimum support.
@@Ahnestly while I love the Gesture arms, the Karman arms aren't bad either. They have full freedom to move around unlike Zody/Very which clicks and Humanscale arms which aren't too flexible
Are you saying you can get a Gesture for $300? If so, that's a tough deal to beat. But really depends on if you think you'll need warranty and whether you like mesh!
@Ahnestly oh I understand thank you, I'm just trying to sell my aeron size c because I don't like it much like is comfortable but for only 10 mins but yea I go for the gesture and when karman lower the price then would get it but again thank you
Iv been researching chairs for months, now this thing comes out a throws a wrench in my decision 😞. You really really seem to like this chair, and it looks amazing.
This chair is massively overhyped. It may be more flexible than the Aeron, but it lacks in every other department. The recline motion isn't deep enough, the armrests look cheap, the lumbar support looks like a complete afterthought, and the frame doesn't look solid enough. I'd say that anyone who has issues with the Aeron could still try out the Mirra 2 or the Zody, as both alternatives are far better than the Karman imo.
I have been chair shopping this week and went to the Steelcase showroom and tried this and was underwhelmed, the Gesture was okay, the arms great but chair okay. The Leap V2 was very nice. I went to the Haworth showroom today, the Fern without the lumbar on the back is nice but the Zody loaded up is very very nice, I might get that. The Aeron is still trash. Still have to try an Embody and see how that compares to the Zody before I make my decision.
I have both. Zody for 3 years and just got the Embody. The forward tilt from the Zody I miss dearly, but apart from that I prefer the Embody for everything else. However, the squeakiness of the Embody is still annoying for sure (I have the Logitech version).
I've worked with Haworth and Steelcase for 5 years, was at Haworth when Fern was launched and at Steelcase when Karman was launched. If you need comfort, long hours of sitting choose Fern. Gesture is great, it's like a tech marvel but dosnt have the best UI when it comes to tension and backlock.
@@siddhartht14 Trying to understand how Gesture has a worse UI than Fern.... It's features are all in one location and very straight forward. Fern isn't as intuitive in terms of his mechanisms and the amount of turns required for the fern is quite significant.
Lol, I just returned mine. Compared to my Aeron Remastered, the Karman looks, feels, and works like a $400 chair. Now I understand why it is cheaper than the Leap and the Gesture. I think the title of this video "The King Of Mesh Chairs" is nonsense
I initially had the same thought until I realized how it moves with me. I can’t sit in the aeron anymore after the freedom of movement I have in the Karman
Dude. Your kidney is worth way more than this chair. Maybe sell a couple toes instead? 🤣🙃🥲 In all seriousness….yeahhh it’s pricey but less so than an $1,800 hm aeron!
Steelcase Amia (geni.us/LJ5k) and a remanufactured Steelcase Leap v2 (geni.us/wvIA) from Crandall Office! Please consider using my links! Helps the channel a lot!
