Dovacraft I disagree with labeling Star Wars as any one thing. The original trilogy is definitely fantasy, the books read more as science fiction, Solo is a heist movie, Rogue One is a war story, and The Mandalorian is a western. The Star Wars universe is so detailed, it’s disingenuous to say “It’s X”. It can be anything.
@@freakyphil93 i agree with you, its just i haven't seen rouge one/solo/read the books bc i either haven't had the time or people saying how shit they are bc it not the origional triliogy
@@freakyphil93 Considering that George Lucas always intended Star Wars to be Science Fantasy and has openly said "It's not science fiction" then your point is mute
Cat Mun You should look into the concept of, “The death of the author.” Basically, the idea is an author’s intention is irrelevant when compared with what’s actually written. It’s kind of an unwieldy concept. As an example, let’s say I’m making you a meal. I say I’m going to make you a salad, but I give you two pieces of bread with melted cheese between them. You say, “this is grilled cheese.” And I say, “no, it’s a salad”. Did I give you salad or grilled cheese? Does my opinion as the creator get more weight? To bring it back to Star Wars, if you look at Solo, which is essentially a heist movie set in the Star Wars universe, does it become fantasy because George Lucas said so? Also, it’s moot point, not mute point. :)
Speaking as someone who loves Star Wars but did not like The Last Jedi, I greatly appreciate you for making this video. I have been looking for someone who could explain why they enjoyed the film in a manner that I can understand. You opened my eyes to several positive details of the film that eluded me the two times that I watched it. And while I disagree with many of your conclusions, I thought you defended most of them in an intelligent and respectful manner.
@GiRayne Looks like you and I saw a completely different movie. There is no progress in it, none at all. Resistance fleeing at the beginning, and at the end, only now reduced to a few people. No character arcs or development whatsoever and a Mary Sue Character to make it all happen. Men are what feminists want them to be: Either wild animals with no control or drooling idiots. I cannot find a single good thing about that movie.
GiRayne There's a blatant undercurrent of "men are the problem and women are the solution". Name one male character in TLJ that solves a problem. They are continuously portrayed as the trouble-makers, the impulsive, the dim-witted, the power-hungry, the quitters and so on. This movie gives all the flaws to men and all the qualities to women. And Rey, oh Rey! She's the Mary Sue of Mary Sues. Better with the force than Luke and Kylo, can pilot (and repair!) the Millennium Falcon better then Han, out-sword-fights Kylo, she never dispairs, never quits, and so on. She's better at everything than anyone else.
@@Kashban "There is no progress in it, none at all." Well that is not really true. The problem is that the progress happenes in a really strange way. Basically we spend hours watching the B-team doing silly stuff without any real consequence while world scatering events take place elsewhere. And we are occasionally informed about them. The presumably galaxy spanning republic falls in the beginning crawls. Without much explanation how that happened Making Snoke the effective ruler of the gallaxy. Only for him to be killed later because he was to dumb to pay attentition. The fall of the new repulic alone would be more than enough progress for an entire movie...sadly we do never get to see that do we?
@GiRayne Well said. What the frothing women-phobic comments about Rey miss completely is that Mary Sue is a concept that has been stripped of all meaning since it migrated onto the internet. It's used to the point of being a badge by people that don't like these films yet almost none of them understand what a trope is, what Mary Sue actually means, and why it has lost all meaning. Any reply to this mentioning her being perfect at everything? Well done, you just proved what I said hook, line and sinker. I'm guessing people just fell asleep when Rey crashed things, convinced herself that pressing a button on Han's ship would do something to help yet it actually nearly got them all killed, had a freakout, got paralysed with fear, got captured by Ren and then later nearly got killed by him? Guess they missed all that. But then what should we expect? You see the rhetoric everywhere. How dare they make the heroic characters female and black. You can see the seething hatred towards these people when they have no other reason to do so other than 'those heroes aren't white males like me'. Disgusting.
@@edgepixel8467 I can sort of agree that your first paragraph makes sense, though Rose isn't all that sensible, Finn actually was quite right about what he did, with the knowledge he had (and lack of trust in anyone but those he knew, as learned from experience), Kylo seemingly did the right things to gain power, even though we have to hope he is wrong in his worldview (and was beaten in the end by a Luke that re-ignited himself thanks to interactions with Rey and, male, Yoda), and whoever OK-ed the plan for that formation of super slow bombers (likely Leia) surely wasn't completely right, but desperate. The second paragraph though is mostly sour grapes to me - the explanation about 'balance of the force' (ie. bit in this video concerning snoke's remark) works to show why it can be so, as well as why Luke (Anakin too?) are so strong, w/o needing any 'Anakin was created by Darth Bane/Sidious from the force' explanations - Luke and Anakin were also very gifted with crafts, somehow, it being implied, by being strong in the force; and it was never shown Rey was better than Han with the Falcon (who by the way, if you'd watched Solo, is immediately greater than Lando with it, despite great difference in experience - but let's leave that one out of it for now ;) On the quitting - neither did Kylo, but yeah, Anakin and Luke do have a bit of that in them, which matches with what this video says about Luke, but that might be a family trait; for Rey so far, quitting has never been a realistic option, with her completely dependant on herself, so of course she doesn't consider it.
Honestly- I thought TROS was a fun movie. Not necessarily a good movie, and I may not retain my fondness for it like I have for TLJ- but it’s a fun movie.
As soon as Luke opened himself up to the Force, the first thing he felt was, Leia. There was no way he wouldn't have sensed the danger Han and Leia were in unless he closed himself off.
@The_Pot_Dragon Do you play Knight Of The Old Republic 2 : The Sith Lord? 2 of the main character cut themselves from The Force, Kreia and The Exile. Jedi can do that, it have been established. Force Bond also being established through the game, the first one. it is clear that Rian Johnson do play both series. The game released in 2004, before Disney bought Lucasfilm.
@The_Pot_Dragon Luke become like he is in TLJ because of TFA, what can be done to answer "Why Luke is alone on the island while the galaxy suffering, his friend dead, and his sister busy fighting an evil military?". There are very limited choices and every one of it will not make sense. Luke can't be a hero the same time abandon his friend, family and the galaxy. The blame should be on JJ Abram, not Rian Johnson. So the most logical excuse is like what we see in TLJ. I don't say I like it, but what else is there that make sense?
@The_Pot_Dragon I don't like those scenes too, without them it still be ok. Rian could make Luke just give the saber back to Rey if he really don't want to have anything to do with Jedi anymore and all about Kylo are only in dialogues not flashback sequence, it will be different. You see that's the flaw of TLJ editing. Rian could make Luke tell his story, Kylo tell his story, and viewers decide who's lying. Those flashbacks are waste of run time that could be replaced with Luke's 3rd lesson scene in which interesting but got deleted for no reason.
@The_Pot_Dragon Cutting yourself off from the Force is something that has popped up in lots of Star Wars stories. It's usually described as instead of opening yourself up to the Force as the Jedi/Sith or even just curious Force sensitive children like young Anakin often do, you push it down and silence it. It's a perfectly functional plot element, with previous precedent in the canon.
@The_Pot_Dragon Just to share a different perspective, I actually thought what Rian did with Luke made a lot of sense based on the resolution of the OT. His arc was one of the highlights of the movie for me. I was very young when I first saw ROJ but when I really started to think about it, before the prequels came out, I realized Luke left the throne room doomed to fall based on Yoda’s quote from Empire. “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.” That makes the dark side sound like a very powerful drug, the type that is addictive from the first use, (even though real drugs don’t work like that.) So, once he embraced the dark side to fight, and almost kill, Vader, he’d spend the rest of his existence resisting it’s calls. Having a moment of weakness against such a seductive and consuming all powerful evil is hardly surprising, particularly in a moment of crisis. (It’s like an alcoholic having a bad day and pouring a glass of whiskey.) Remember, he just found out that his nephew is going to lead the new Empire and murder who knows how many innocent people. That didn't have to be the thing, but there was going to be a thing, well more than one. It’s the exact same break Mace Windu had in ROS when he was going to kill Sheev instead of holding him for trial. Maybe given another 10 seconds Mace would have thought better of it. (Probably not.) Certainly, Luke thought better of it almost instantly. Deciding to shut himself off from the world after that makes perfect sense and is a sign of this remorse. He can’t trust himself anymore, and by extension, he can’t trust the Jedi or even the force itself. He has to relearn that trust. It has to be restored, and through the course of the movie, it is. Basically, Luke took a deep spiritual wound at the end of ROJ, and after a time, it brought him down. Ultimately, with the guidance of his old mentor Yoda, he lifted himself back up and performed a final sacrificial act to die a hero. But yeah, even ignoring the corner Rian was in after TFA, and there were a lot of them, everything with Luke in TLJ jives with what we’ve seen in the movies leading up to it.
@callmecatalyst even george lucas and mark hamil disliked what they did to star wars, you calling them inane aswell. george litterly wrote star wars, if the creator says that they ruined it, then it is completely ruined, no argument. people just don't like to be treated like an ATM where disney can draw out money from you, and scam you by preying on your nostalgia.
@Lonnie Dunn most of the fan base love the prequels, so I don't know what your talking about. It's just the old boomers, that hated the prequels, and they've grown up now.
@@ramonsmith3706 Luke in exile wasn't Rian Johnson's idea for the sequels. It wasn't JJ Abrams's, either. It was George Lucas's. And Lucas has done a pretty decent job keeping his thoughts about the sequels to himself. But the movie he's commented on publicly the most was The Force Awakens. His main critique? That that movie wasn't original enough. That it recycled too much of what had come before. That is the correct critique of TFA, if you're inclined to critique it. TFA is an exceptionally executed movie that is very fun and easy to watch. It is also a beat-for-beat New Hope rehash bordering on a straight-up Copy and Paste job. I didn't hold that against the movie at the time. I looked at it as a sort of palate cleanser from the prequels. A mission statement from Disney, of sorts, that, "We get it. We get what you liked about the OT. We get what you didn't like about the PT. We're telling a familiar story as a way of passing this story and this universe down to these new characters, and you're in good hands here." I believe there was value in demonstrating that you're capable of making a good, if completely unoriginal, Star Wars movie. But not all Star Wars movies can be just slightly modified versions of the Original Trilogy. Not just because seeing the exact same story unfold over and over is boring, but also because two out of the three movies in the original trilogy are unqualified cinematic masterpieces and all three have the benefit of decades of nostalgia skewing our perspective. Rehashes will inevitably disappoint. The next movie needed to take a turn. And it did. You can disagree with some of the choices that were made, but one of the things I really like and respect about The Last Jedi, is that at least it did make choices. It took some shots. It didn't just jangle the Star Wars keys in front of our faces, saying, "Hey, remember that guy/thing? He/it was in a movie that you really like that came out 40 years ago. Now you get to see him/it again. Neat!", It was the only movie in the sequel trilogy to reject that sort of overt pandering, and it's probably the most intensely disliked movie in the entire series. All of which is to say that each next Star Wars movie can't just be an artistically bankrupt exercise in circling back to everything and everyone we liked about the movies that came before. It can only matter going forward if it's actually given room to grow. I am not telling you that you are wrong for not liking TLJ or the sequels writ large. You like what you like and you don't like what you don't like and that's fine. But ... I would like to suggest that you take it down a notch. Perhaps if you see a Star Wars movie and you don't like it, "Didn't like it. Hope I like the next one" would be a better, healthier attitude than this odd insistence that things are being "ruined" or that a corporation is "treating you like an ATM and scamming you by preying on your nostalgia." I would guess that no one has ever forced you to see any of these movies, and you can dislike TLJ and still have very warm feelings about the original trilogy and all of the Star Wars things that you do like. I know, because that's how I feel about TRoS. There are going to be good Star Wars movies, and there are going to be bad Star Wars movies, because no franchise bats 1.000. It would be nice for fans if the discourse around them wasn't quite so radioactive.
@@frams12 hey I'm just expressing my discontent with the last Jedi. That there was a good reason why most of the fans didn't like it. You can enjoy it, if you it's your thing It dosent affect my life. Personally I like some movies that are considered bad, there is nothing wrong with it. My problem isn't so much the movie, but lucasfilm and how they tried to shift the blame off themselves and calling anyone who complained about it "man babies" 😂. I thought rise of Skywalker was a bad movie, yet i can see that the studios were at least trying to do something better.
@@ramonsmith3706 hey, that’s perfectly reasonable, and I can’t speak on behalf of lucasfilm, but I’d just like you to know that when I (and I think most people who like the movie) criticize some of the detractors, we don’t really attack fans like you who are cool about it; but rather the ones who unrelentingly hate on the cast, the crew, and practically everyone who may even be indifferent to the movie, in the most obnoxious way possible…even though I do recognize that these guys are just a really tiny fraction of the detractors, I feel that they need to be called out.
51 year old Star Wars fan here who saw the original trilogy in theaters back in the 1970s/1980s during my coming of age years. Since then, I've always been first in line to see the 3 prequels and 2 sequels, and other Star Wars movies. I liked "The Last Jedi" when I saw it in the theater. I didn't like as much as the original trilogy, but then again I've never liked anything Star Wars as much as I loved the original trilogy. After seeing all the hate for "The Last Jedi" that I've seen on RU-vid, I decided that maybe I shouldn't have liked it as much as I did, so I watched it again on Netflix, and, again, I didn't think it was THAT bad and I enjoyed it more than I thought I would or should have liked it. When the prequels came out in the 1990s/early 2000s, there was a lot hate going on with people saying that Lucas practically ruined Star Wars. Now we're all saying that Disney ruined Star Wars and the prequels weren't that bad after all. Anything Star Wars is so hard to judge objectively because the original trilogy has been lifted to cult status. So after we've practically made Star Wars into a religion, we want more Star Wars, demand more Star Wars; then when we get what want we complain that it doesn't live up to our impossible standards or expectations. As a preteen and young teenager watching the original trilogy in the theater I was and remain totally caught up in the Star Wars message and mythology (not to mention, John Williams' wonderful, classically-inspired score), but Star Wars remains a movie, and an escapist and fun movie at that. Maybe if we judge all things Star Wars on that basis and not take it all so seriously, we can allow ourselves to enjoy more of it.
I was 12 when I saw Star Wars in the theater in 77 and I loved it. I still do. Now, I'm not saying that the prequels ruined Star Wars, but they were indeed terrible (except for the amazing Ian McDiarmid), as was The Last Jedi. I will say that most of the moments with Mark Hamill were brilliant (save for the saber throwing and moof milking), however these weren't enough to save this film. It was such a disappointment after the promise of Force Awakens, which I enjoyed. I think that the fans are somewhat justified in their criticisms. There has been some dreadful storytelling in the Star Wars universe. I understand the need to develop characters, however, there has been a tremendous effort on the part of the producers to over explain, to connect disparate characters in outlandish ways, to retcon existing story elements and backpedal with some bs about "points of view," to develop backstories that we didn't need, to "surprise" us with ridiculous familial relationships, to over appeal to children (sooo many muppets), and so forth. That being said, I LOVED Rogue One and hoped it would be a precursor to what was in the future for Star Wars. Rogue One may be my number 2 SW film after the original, or perhaps it's tied with Empire for 2nd, I'm not sure. I'm still not over that whole "I am your father" thing... What's more, Solo, although completely unnecessary, was pretty good too. In fact, they could have replaced Han Solo with any misunderstood, ambitious-but-disadvantaged kid and started a whole new trilogy right there. In contrast, Last Jedi just seemed like a long list of scenes whose only purpose was to intentionally present the complete opposite of what an audience's expectations might be. "It's Luke Skywalker! What amazing thing is he going to say to Rey?? Oh. He threw the lightsaber away. hmm..." "I be that Rey is Luke's daughter! There were so many clues! Oh. She's the daughter of alcoholics..." "Who is Snoke and what's his whole evil plan? Oh. They just unceremoniously cut him in half..." The only thing that the producers owe the audience is a well thought out, well written, and well constructed story. The Last Jedi simply did not have it. Now we can look forward to The Rise of Skywalker getting it's Retcon Machine up and running...
@@VanDanmark You say: "I was 12 when I saw Star Wars in the theater in 77 and I loved it. I still do." I say: Same here. I came from a broken and dysfunctional home and experienced an awkward and lonely adolescence. The "original trilogy" was a welcomed escape from reality. Fortunately for me, my life is much better now that I'm older (and wiser?). Still, after all these years, I maintain an interest in what continues to be done with the Star Wars message and mythology; not just for my feelings of nostalgia, but also because I think that the original trilogy were really fine movies. You say: "Now, I'm not saying that the prequels ruined Star Wars, but they were indeed terrible..." I say: I like the prequels just for the history of how Palpatine the Emperor of the Universe; how did Anakin become Vader; how did the the clone army come about, how did the Jedi die out, and so forth. You say: "Last Jedi just seemed like a long list of scenes whose only purpose was to intentionally present the complete opposite of what an audience's expectations might be." I say: It seemed to me that after "Force Awakens" was criticized for recycling too much from the originals, that fandom had demanded, in a way, that the next movie do things differently. So , again, we got what we wanted and then we complained that it was a betrayal to the originals. You say: "Rogue One may be my number 2 SW film after the original, or perhaps it's tied with Empire for 2nd, I'm not sure." I say: When I saw "Rogue One" in the theater I was with my family. At the time, my kids liked it and I didn't. When I watched "Rogue" a year or two later on TV, I liked it more than I remembered liking it the first time around. As for "Solo", I found it entertaining but not memorable. Unless you count the "Holiday Special" (which as an old-timer, like me, you probably remember watching the one and only TV broadcast), I'd say "Solo" was the weakest link, not because it was a bad movie, but because it doesn't seem to even warrant much commentary by fandom. At least, "Last Jedi" was interesting enough that people are talking about, A LOT.
It seems every star wars trilogy brings something new to the table. That's why there's so much backlash. Every trilogy is advertised with "you love star wars? Then here is more of the same!" When it actually should have been "you thought you knew star wars? Here is an all new star wars story completely different, but just as great!". The first trilogy is mostly about good vs evil, with simple but effective storytelling using "the heroes journey". The prequals are about how evil comes into power and why the Jedi failed, with a remix of "the heroes journey". The new trilogy seems to be about something new, maybe about the complex small differences between good and evil, learning from your mistakes and learning the world isn't as black and white as you thought it was, with "the heroes journey deconstructed and subverted to create an unexpected story". Maybe that's why most star wars fans think of the new movies as unsatisfying and strange.
Summing up the Star Wars community in two sentences. "Everybody just yells and screams at each other. No one's civil anymore!" All jokes aside, though, thanks to everyone in this comments section who is being mature and treating each other with respect. Non toxic Star Wars fans are becoming an endangered species, and this comments section appears to be their natural habitat.
Seriously, I didn't find one single person who is being respectful. Actually, there are people who are trying to mask themselves as "civilian people", saying that liking something doesn't make it good. That's the dumbest argument I have ever seen. I not only like TLJ, but I think that it's a good movie. And then another guy comes and say that he is so civilian that he is right and knows that liking something doesn't mean it's good? These people really need to fuck themselves
Enzo Saraiva Liking something doesn’t make it good is a pretty fair argument. I mean, does liking things like the Room and the Holiday special mean their good? Maybe on a subjective level since there are people who think their so bad that their good and entertaining. But when it comes to actual writing, well that’s kinda the root of these TLJ discussions, aren’t they?
Wow, its amazing, I disagree with almost everything you said in this video. However you explained yourself in such a way that was respectable and made sense without having to resort to insulting the people that did not like the movie, which a lot of other people who attempt to defend this movie do. So thank you for that.
I really appreciate that you gave his ideas and opinions a chance without jumping down his throat. We definitely need to get back to that, because my perception has been a very vocal group hating on it and yelling about "SJWs" and all that
Coming from the Aldmeri Dominion, that's high praise. And I'm in agreement with this, he's at least given an actual 'Sit down and discuss with a thought out arguement'. Had shit like this happened with Rian and a lot of other people, this entire sequel wouldn't be as a total shitstorm as it is now. Albeit it'll always be regarded as the Runt of the Litter no matter what, but it'd at least have better acknowledgement almost to the same pitying level as the prequels had been treated, its there and its not the most loved child amongst the three but it's there.
Well commented. It is always nice to find a person who makes great content that, while you don't agree, you can respect one way or the other. I found a channel a while back that does videos about why certain channels have gone down hill despite still being popular. Personally, I find its points heavily valid. While I disagree with a lot, I ended up subscribing just to hear what he has to say. even if I don't agree, a good person makes for a good person.
First, good job keeping things balanced. You looked at the film without blinders and were able to see problems while still holding your positive subjective opinion. That said, I think you're missing alot of problems. Instead of going over them here I'll just direct you to MauLer's TLJ 3 part critique (about 5 hours total). For you or anyone who liked this video and still hasn't seen MauLer's videos, they're similar this video only longer and negative of TLJ. If you want to hear an opinion from the otherside who is able to articulate their points, who can criticize and praise a film, then go check it out.
@@pokeman3804 Actually, I also think Rogue One was not that good :-) It had some nice moments for an old SW fan, but in overall... Subjectively, of course.
Lmao bro Star Wars fanboys were so angry at this movie. Then rise of sky walker came out lololololol. People were trying to say that rian Johnson was a hack who doesn’t understand storytelling or film. Which makes me laugh bc what made Star Wars so great was that the themes were simple and it was super innovative in terms of technical filmmaking. But from a writing perspective it’s not complex or relativity deep just a solid story about good and evil. Lots of Star Wars fans rub me as sci fi noobs like you guys know Star Wars stole a bunch of shit from dune and dumbed it down which honestly made it better bc dune is super complicated and unforgiving.
@@gnarrcan108 Rian Johnson ruined Episode IX, which could have been so much better had JJ directed Episode VIII. It's all Rian Johnson's fault! He destroyed what fans wanted to see! He's jealous! He's holding the sequels back!
All his points? But did he make you question some of your assumptions about the film? I liked the film! But I usually like art that takes me out of my comfort zone. But yes, The Last Jedi is subversive to the minimal details.
"Embrace the fantasy or just stop watching Star Wars." There's definitely science fiction in it but it is, first and foremost, a science fantasy. Seriously though, Clone Wars has an entire plotline centered around witches and old-school voodoo zombies, straight up fantasy.
Even fantasy has rules. Would it have helped or hindered the story if Gandalf single handedly curbstomped the Mordor army at the siege of Minas Tirith in an epic slowmo display of magic power, even though he never did anything like that before when it might have been very useful? I'm not saying the light speed ram is as egregious as that would have been, but it's the same kind of mistake.
AnJiMo Casera exactly. It’s a movie about a farm boy taking up him fathers sword and learning from an old wizard to beat the evil emperor and his black knight. I mean cmon, it’s a medieval fantasy placed in a different universe
Also an important thing to note about Yoda burning the books... he did not. Rey took them with her we see them at the end in the Falcon, no way ghost yoda don’t know, he just used that to give a lesson to Luke
We're shown one book stuffed in a drawer, not the whole thing, dozens of books full of incredibly sacred million year old knowledge was still lost, just cuz. Also, when did she pawn that without Luke noticing or sensing her intentions? Also, why did she even do that in the first place? She didn't know Yoda was gonna torch everything. And she certainly wouldn't be able to read, or even understand the books without Luke's help.
@Noiseless Sounds Oh shit, my bad, I must've missed that message in the movies. Oh wait, I missed it because *that's literally just your headcanon* and nothing in any of the movies supports what you're saying. You pulled that out of your ass when the fact is that Rey is just better at the force than Luke and literal Star Wars Jesus Anakin, for *no in-story reason*
@Noiseless Sounds ik that luke had nearly no training in episode 4 but that showed in episode 5 when he lost against vader . Rey had no training at all but deafeatet the new villain easy and in episode 8 nothing changed. A character needs weaknesses to be a good character but rey has non that's the problem because you'll know that she won't loose in the future
@Noiseless Sounds just ignore the dumb virgins they used to hate the prequels now they worship it like dogs maybe they will love this one in many years if there are new star wars film or they will stay angry mgtows
Christopher Wood Ahmed Best (the actor who played Jar Jar) blames the media for what happened to him, not the fans. He never once said that toxic fans drove him to contemplate suicide.
@@ryanbarth6691 Wdym mate? Rian and many of the top people at Lucasfilm are/were slinging shit at the fanbase and we hit back. What's the problem, if they were calling all our criticism invalid and calling us alt right manbabies for not liking what they are producing then they deserve the backlash from their actions.
Everyone always says that the bombing part doesn't make sense since there's no gravity in space. Well there's this thing called artificial gravity on these ships, which is why people aren't floating around on them. These bombs are also on the ship, therefore, under the influence of artificial gravity. Once released from their chamber, they float downwards from the ship, and are able to hit their target since an object put in motion into space can't stop without another force interfering with it.
@@itzspoons827 Not quite how that works. If you drop an object from something in orbit, it takes potentially months to reach the surface, and that's just from objects dropped off the relatively low ISS. Remember, planets aren't sitting still. They may look it, but dropping a bomb into space with only a second or three of gravity to propel it is nothing compared to how fast planets move. So either it falls painfully slowly as it's in orbit and is only useful near a planet, or, it misses because 9.8m/s is insanely slow in space. This only makes sense if they're in orbit, and if they are it isn't gonna do much to counteract the insane speeds involved with orbit. You can't throw an apple at earth and expect it to go down quickly, your puny human arm is nothing to orbital velocity. I believe the lore says that it's launched via magnetic rails but it still seems really slow, it should be easy to launch them much faster with those. All in all, it isn't hard to make a better bomber. Just take the magnetic rails, stick them on a mounted turret, and shoot the bombs at the enemy. Why bother with gravity? It's a terrible idea. We don't use gravity to blow things up anymore for good reason. That said, it's all space magic anyways. I think the design is silly regardless.
tlozfreak888 Saw the first paragraph of your comment. Couldn’t be arsed to read the rest. But not sure if u knew but planets have different gravitational pulls
@@itzspoons827 They do, yes, but as gravity is an inverse proportion to the square of distance you'd need a large difference in gravity in order for it to change much from a large distance. As we saw people running around normally, you'd have to come up with a good excuse as to how it's actually got a larger gravitational pull. They don't just magically have larger areas of effect. Their area of effect depends on their mass, which determines how strong the gravity is. This being a sci-fi series, all planets tend to have pretty much identical gravity because it's simpler that way. Much easier to film.
Ok so, with the bombs falling it actually makes sense with the physics of space. In space, an object set in motion stays in motion until there is a force to stop it. On the ship, they have artificial gravity which is a force pulling down the bombs. Once the bombs reach space, they keep falling because the artificial gravity in the ship started their descent and there is nothing in space to stop them from moving.
thank you for this. some one actually took physics class in highschool. besides, the bombs were sort of pushed down, providing the initial acceleration to bomb moving towards the dreadnaut.
linear motion (which is what the bombs follow on) needs an external force applied to the objects centre of mass in order for it to move, hence why gravity moves bombs downwards on earth. There is no gravity in space, hence the bombs cannot naturally drop. The bombs weren't 'pushed down' if they were they'd just float aimlessly in space not moving. So you're saying that because ships have artificial gravity, it also measn they have their own artificial gravity field that the bombs would 'naturally fall to'? ummm i dont think so. Also physics cannot be applied practically to this film. Turbolaser beams now 'curve' in space? Why? There is no resistance in space for them to have to horizontally fire across, they should go straight like bullets. Also when the medical frigate runs out of fuel (also hilarious) it falls backwards? Again why, there is no resistance in space to be pushing the ship backwards, it should stay stationary. Honestly this film is hilarious
Oli Lea bruh you said there’s no gravity in space and you clearly don’t grasp the concept of inertia or momentum, what’s hilarious is that you think your argument is valid
@@dachshund_gaming I don't see the purpose of your comment. I did say there is no gravity in space yes.... because there is none so what were you trying to say? And I literally just applied Newton's law of Inertia in my first sentence in the previous comment, so clearly I do have a concept of how they apply in atmosphere and I certainly know when they don't apply in an endless vacuum that is space. The bombers cannot possibly just 'let go' of the bombs and expect them to fall downwards, because there is no (wait for it......) GRAVITY. For Newton's First Law of Inertia to apply here there would need to be a person physically pushing the bombs in the direction they want to go for them to move anywhere.Then because there is no resistance in a vacuum, the bombs would almost endlessly continue to float in the direction they were pushed. But the big plot hole here is that there the bombs were not moved at all, they just opened a door and pushed a button, bombs don't drop like that in space. That's like holding a ball above you, letting go and expecting it to fly sideways. That's because there was no force applied in that direction. This film makes no sense. Don't get me started on 'Hyperspace as a weapon' bullshit.
Oli Lea Paige is seen falling in the very same scene, there’s clearly artificial gravity within the bomber, and there’s clearly some sort of unseen threshold on the bottom that is allowing her and everyone who was on board to breathe. Jesus Christ
As someone who just really did not like TLJ I find this to actually be one of the best defenses for the movie. You made legit points on why you liked it and I respect that, you did a terrific job on this. Also this is actually a person who I found likes the movie and still respects that others did not like it without telling me to go kill myself. Thnx for respecting that.
@@obi-twokenobi4861 And why should they enjoy that despite it being poorly executed? It is not a shame a shame that someone didn't like it, it is a shame that it was made terrible.
@@mrpenguins9101 I watched that too. It was an amazing analysis. I am glad that there are people out there who recognise the depth of The Last Jedi and appreciate what Rian Johnson was doing.
I actually went to college and was conducted by the musician who played the Steel Drum in that sequence. That score was awesome and probably my second favorite in this trilogy.
Bombs dropped from a ship that has artificial gravity will continue to fall through space, because they gained the downward velocity in the ship then entered space and continued. Space has no friction to slow momentum, and in this case, no gravity to disrupt the natural trajectory
Also, wouldn't the dreadnought itself have it's own gravitational pull? Nothing compared to a planet of course, but still, an object that size... And maybe the artificial gravity from inside the ship itself would extend beyond its hull, we don't really know how that works
SomethingLame ; I see your point and it makes some sense. However, what I see is that the ships are constructed terribly and disprove your point. The ships would have artificial gravity (we have seen that) but what is not shown is the separation between art. grav and space. In other movies and shows, there was some field/shield to pressurize the ship. IE, when rose’s sister falls down, and the doors to drop the bombs are open, she should be dead instantly. Also, the lack of the shield means that there needs to be an equalization of space “air” and ship “air” (like in that 4th aliens movie with the ripley clone). Everything would be sucked out but without momentum. I also believe that the bombs, being dropped the way it was, did not have enough momentum either. They we dropped, not pushed. I understand that arguing gets me nowhere but I love Star Wars and I just thought that this movie, and solo, did it injustice.
Louis Knudsen; I understand your point as well, and it does make sense that the more mass something has, the more likely it will have a gravitational pull. However, I don’t know why there would be some form of gravitational pull outside of the ship artificially. There would be no purpose for it. If the ship needed cleaning for some weird reason, they would send droids with jet packs, or maintenance workers with tethers or magnetic boots. As to natural gravity, I doubt it would be strong enough to pull small bombs towards it, even though they are in the general vicinity of the ship.
@@realmvision21_58 I just meant as a kind of "side effect" of the ship's artificial gravity. Also, I think we've seen this kind of thing before in the form of R2-units performing repairs on the ship from the outside, while it's in space
@@realmvision21_58 momentum doesn't require a push. Drop something off a building. It'll fall. You don't need to throw it down. You're best point, which is a good one, speaks to whether the bombs would be "sucked out" rather than simply falling. I beleive they wouldn't, because that would require a sudden breach in the ship's compartmentalized area, if it had one, versus and immediate transition from gravity to the vacuum of space. I believe there would likely be no compartmentalized space between the ship as space (as seen in real life and other sci-fi), because Star Wars shields uniquely appear to function at a level at the very base of the outer layer of the ship (most of the time; some ships appear to be designed differently). My evidence for this is the electrical waves in the original and prequel trilogies that are sent through the ships and appear only the ships sruface. Because of this, I imagine the artificial gravity extends to the very edge of the ship, then suddenly cuts off, without any transitionary vacuum space to redirect the direction of the matter already in movemen. The "sucking into space" thing only occurs when there is one (or several) area(s) exposed to the vacuum of space and one that is not. The strongest force will win out. Obviously, the vacuum of space is stronger than Earth's gravity or some artificial approximation of it, but if you move immediately from one to the other, there will be no noticeable change.
I didn’t like the movie, I didn’t harass the people who made it. I respect you for liking it. At least you could enjoy yourself ❤️ Also Holdo is the reason the whole Resistance was destroyed because Poe sent them because he didn’t know that the plan was really smart because Holdo just plain refused to tell him so he sent Finn and Rose who met DJ who overheard Poe say they’re boarding the transports and DJ told Hux and Phasma and they destroyed them all. Holdo is the real traitor. Also the hyperspace sequence is cool but that isn’t how lightspeed works, when you’re in lightspeed you are in another dimension, not just going really fast because you would crash into all the planets. Also the Last Jedi takes place seconds after the Force Awakens ends.
@@hansolol4863 What's interesting is I often don't understand how people don't like the movie and the reasons usually make no sense to me. I guess it just shows how divisive this movie really is.
@@hansolol4863 Pretty bold statements. To me Star Wars has always been just silly adventure movies. Whenever I go to watch a Star Wars movie I'm not expecting some life changing cinematic masterpiece, because that's not what I ever got, even with the OG trilogy. I'm just looking for a good time and that's exactly what I got with TLJ. Now if you didn't enjoy the movie that is fine. Not every film can click with everyone(I didn't really enjoy Rogue One or The Prequels).
Sean Wilcock at least you admit there’s something about it you like, instead of others who claim there’s nothing good about it without backing their claims.
Imagine a world where Disney let Rian Johnson finish this trilogy instead of trying to play it safe... ROS was good, with some awesome moments, but they backpedal all of the most interesting themes from TLJ
Right? I liked Force Awakens, but I didn't leave theatres feeling very excited for the next movie as it felt like it was going to follow predictable story beats. But would you know it, I came out feeling incredibly pumped after Last Jedi because it forced the story to go in a more original and thoughtful direction, and now I'm devastated seeing ROS throw all that out the window. It would've been great if Rian Johnson had finished the trilogy.
@@elliemoon88 I didnt like TLJ but not because of the reasons people talk about, the biggest mistake it made for me is that it ended like it was ending the entire trilogy. Like, Luke is dead, the main villain is dead, broom boi has hope, The End. Theres no more story to tell. If thats how episode 9 went it would have made sense. I didnt mind Luke dying but Snoke dying kind of made it feel like "oh were done... right?" Thats why Palpatine comes out of nowhere because they couldnt think of anything good fast enough for the plot
Rafa I felt like Snokes death just let Kylo take his place as the real villain of the trilogy. He played his role as the evil grandmaster, but just like palpating in the OT, he’s just the ultimate evil for the more interesting conflicted villain to play off of. Vader isn’t nearly as interesting without Palpatine to compare to, and the same can be said of Kylo. Snoke played his purpose, so get rid of him and make sure everyone knows who the real enemy is
Finally someone saying most of what I've been saying all along. If I may leave a few comments. 1. Yes Rian Johnson's story, did subvert expectations. It did guarantee that we have no basis at all for how the third movie will play out. He eliminated the chance of another Return of the Jedi by killing snoke. It makes Kylo far more interesting now because we've never really had an antagonist in this position before. Darth Vader became an apprentice, Luke ultimately became an apprentice. Kylo is kind of a master of his own destiny at this point. Now something different can happen. 2. Minor knit pick. Rose saying the things she said in the Crait battle makes sense for her character. That was what she was always about. Just because it clashes a bit with Holdo's philosophy doesn't muddy the message so much as it give Rose a bit of individuality. 3. You do have to be pretty joyless to not be completely awed by the Lightspeed fleet killer moment. That was just plain badass. 4. Yeah Rey finds out she's nothing special, but at the same time she does. She just finds out in order to be special she has to become something she doesn't like. I love that dilemma for her character. In order for her to be special, she has to be Kylo's pawn. She decided against that decided to define herself by her own beliefs. Great writing. 5. For that matter, how does it even make sense for Rey to be of any important blood line? The only dynasty in the history of the Jedi that we're ever aware of is the Skywalker's. Jedi didn't marry and didn't have children. There isn't a linage of Windu's, or Kenobi's. Rey was always a nobody. 6. Holdo not throwing Poe in the brig, I think, is more of a she knows what she's doing and she knows how it was being perceived and she didn't really blame him for his actions entirely. Besides Leia kinda takes care of that anyways, and really the whole thing thematically is about Poe learning to not be so impulsive. 7. I was ultimately very happy with Luke in this movie. They didn't just make him a mentor. They gave him his own, complex, set of things to work through. It would have been boring the way the "fans" wanted it. 8. The hate towards Disney Star Wars is completely political and its based on this idea that there is some kind of hidden agenda on behalf of Disney to use Star Wars as a vehicle to promote liberal social views. There's all these things in The Last Jedi that are supposed to expose this agenda and none of it holds up to scrutiny at all. What it comes down to is there's a group of people that both wanted and expected a different movie than what they got. They got all hyped up on what they thought the story should be and had their expectations shattered by what they got. I've had arguments with these people. They are zealots, they're are angry, and all of them are so blinded by that anger that they're entirely unwilling to have a civil conversation with anyone that disagrees with them. The last person who's ire I sparked, broke down into childish insults because I didn't agree that the famous "dagger missing in the shot" destroyed the entire throne room fight sequence. You're entitled to be a fan. You're entitled to not be a fan. You're not entitled to be a part of the editorial process because you are a fan. Next time try going into the theater to watch a movie without writing a script for it yourself before watching it.
Christopher Brickwedde If you think the hate for Disney Star Wars is “completely political”, or that everyone who disagrees with you is an “angry zealot”, then you really ought to read more. Or hell, spend some more time here on RU-vid. 🙄 🤦🏻♂️
Christopher Brickwedde great rebuttals. Really enjoyed reading your thoughts and I personally agree and love how this movie takes a step back and pretty much deconstructs previous Star Wars movies and brings their flaws to the fore front as them being failures
@@thequietlion3553 The people I'm referring to as angry zealots are people that behaved that way. Childish insults do not enhance an argument and having your friends contribute to the conversation in the same manner is not how you debate something. I'll step back and say that "completely political" is an overstep on my part, but I will say that majority of it is. There is this notion that Disney Star Wars is aspiring to be this beacon for liberal social views. I am usually pretty sensitive to that sort of stuff and usually its pretty evident when there is pandering in a movie. There are several arguments made that are supposed to support this view and all of them are pretty big stretches. If all of that was true, and let's say that it is, why is the entire third act male dominant? If you personally have gripes with the film, that's perfectly fine by me, not that you need my permission. I personally have a hatred towards of Attack of the Clones because I think its an awful movie, but I don't try to back that hatred up with a bunch of false claims. I just say that I hate that movie and if asked, I tell people why. I don't try to pretend the movie has a non-existent agenda in the process. I personally think The Last Jedi is one of the better Star Wars movie and it is because they did something different with it. You can dislike it on those same terms and that's alright.
@@BestWafflesEUW Thanks...I actually had to read this twice before I actually believed what I was reading. It's rare to see anyone praise your rebuttals on a movie that most people hate.
@@chrisstone-streetlightinte5629 The lightspeed moment looked amazing, but it being possible at all is questionable considering how powerful it'd be to use that as a weapon. Also Holdo could've just used it the moment the escape ship were off the board since her plan was suicidal anyway. That's kind what makes this awesome looking scene questionable in terms of the story. And the political stuff just seems like a lot of pandering with no substance especially coming from a coorporation using fake feminism to sell toys of an "empowered woman" (who isn't actually shown to have earned her rank, or do anything impactful to the story)
Your explanation of Kylo Ren's motivations is spot on; that's exactly how I interpreted his character and why I find him so utterly fascinating. He is such an intriguingly conflicted character, imo. Or, was. He seems to have mostly decided to go all "destroy the past!", but I have a feeling he hasn't silenced all the conflict, yet.
Kylo is a weak and non threatening villain. He's like a student. Han and Luke are weak heroes. Too much weakness. I like strong villains and heroes, even though they have to struggle and develop. It's not a documentary, but an adventure. Rey, Poe and Rose lacks charisma. Finn is comedic and had potential which wasn't utilised. General Holdo is a catastrophy, so ridiculous, pompous and lacking leadership qualities. Visuals were great.
It would be a good thematic through line if Kylo continues to struggle with his past actions despite having all the power he's ever wanted. He's trying to kill the past, which is exactly what will keep him from being able to move past it. Also for the first time in his life he's not going to have anyone to guide/manipulate him and will have to figure shit out for himself. If Rian Johnson had written Episode IX I imagine it would go in that direction but idk what JJ Abrams will do with him.
You can tell this is a good comment section because everyone has made thought out comments on why they liked or didn’t like the movie as apposed to just whining About SJWs and harassing people who liked the movie.
Theres definitely good things in this film that a lot of hacks will try to attack with no good reason, but there are a lot of dumb things you cant really deny as well.
There are plenty of people who enjoyed it: Film Joy, Loverboy Media, Cosmonaut, Just Write, Jenny Nicholson, Shaun, Lessons from the screenplay, Make stuff, that guy from TLJ guide, and much more!
Thanks so much for putting this together. It's Dec 2018 and I'm still processing how I feel about the film. It really helps to get a fresh positive take on it. I like thinking about the parallels between Yoda's characterization of the Dark Side as "quicker and easier" , and the abundance of negative critiques of TLJ on RU-vid. I think you're helping me arrive at a more balanced view - your time was well spent.
Dude, same. That Yoda scene floored me in theaters. Total surprise, absolutely beautiful message, powerful nostalgia and pathos. It is the best scene in the movie
Yes, I also agree with this. I'm just glad that there ARE people that liked/loved the movie. (Uh-oh, I think I just pivoted the haters attention to this comment now...PREPARE YOURSELF!)
@@pikminmaster2165 lol this comment is the perfect example of tlj lovers who seem to revel in disagreeing with people rather than just talking about why they like the movie
this exact type of film/writing video essays are the content I’d love from this channel. they don’t even gotta be long, that Shonen Escalation video was great
Tide Detergent And it was missed in the video, hence my comment. So why are you replying to me with a “duh” as though it’s elementary when it’s obviously not if he missed it?
ProtoMeNTL Maybe because the video was really long and because he said he would gloss over the little things in the film. It wasn’t an insult by me saying duh. I just thought it was common knowledge by this point that Rey had the books. Therefore I was acknowledging you.
That's why I wish documentaries got more marketing. There's a dumb stigma saying because "there's no narrative, so there's nothing interesting." Um... Baraka?
Um... here's a counter to your point regarding "why is Luke here" section. Force Awakens had it stated that he had gone there to find the origins of the Jedi, to undergo new training and learn what he could to help the galaxy. There's also the fact that he created a map to his location. If he didn't want to be found, if he went there solely to die, what purpose would there be for making a map?
1. Ahch To was in the imperial archives. So my guess is that Luke gave his location to R2, in hopes that he'd never activate, hence R2 not being active until the end of TFA. 2. Luke finding the origin of the Jedi was a lie. 3.Or, plot holes. I mostly go with 1 and 2.
Varathael pretty sure the line went that close friends of Luke believed/thought that’s what he was going for... it was a rumor not confirmed fact or truth
I think Luke made the map so that if he was needed and would go through all the trouble finding him then, he was needed like a worse case scenario coming to think of why Like is portrayed the way he is with the empire fallen his whole family is dead the war being over which kept his mind busy let’s be honest and the way return of the Jedi ended by Luke actually having a chance to turn his father which he did and was taken away, he’d be pretty depressed. I also think Poe was under utilised in this film being the best fighter pilot we see some badass piloting on display in the force awakened but would of liked to see a bit more with his squadron
Nothing in Episode 7 suggests that Luke made the map. They're just following the same path he took because people who know him think he probably went there.
I thought Rian Johnson was a weird choice for a Star Wars film. Star Wars is a very mainstream franchise and he is most definitely not a mainstream director. His movies tend to to quirky, subtle, and clever. I think that worked against him in this franchise; most people don't want to have to pay that much attention to a Star Wars film. It's supposed to be escapist fantasy. I honestly didn't care for TLJ the first time I saw it, but after watching it again, I started to pick up on a lot of the cleverness and attention to detail that went into it (the silence of the Holdo maneuver and the attention to the footprints of Ben and Luke on Crait were fantastic little details that I'm not used to seeing in Star Wars movies). I think there were too many characters to feel satisfied with any of their arcs in this movie (with the exception of Luke - his character arc was great!). I would have liked a more fleshed out arc for Rey, since she's the main protagonist. I don't necessarily buy that they couldn't have explained Luke's disappearance in other ways, but I don't think his character was completely off base. Kylo was a threat to Leia - remember what happened when Vader threatened Leia in RotJ? Luke went apes**t crazy on him and would have killed him if not for the Emperor laughing at him. Conversely, though, I'm not entirely convinced that he would have left Leia out to dry the way he did in TLJ. TLJ had its problems, but overall I thought the Rey/Luke/Kylo/Snoke stuff was strong enough to carry the movie.
"Kylo was a threat to Leia - remember what happened when Vader threatened Leia in ROTJ?" THANK YOU! On top of that, we don't even know what fucked up shit he could've seen in Kylo's head. He could've seen Kylo blowing up all those planets with Starkiller Base, at which point, had he killed Ben, he would've been saving millions if not billions of people. And on top of THAT, Luke specifically said he "felt the good in Vader", hence why he tried to turn him back, whereas with Kylo he said that all he saw was darkness.
As a standalone movie/sequel, it's a good movie. The problem for me is that this movie undermines what happened in the OT. Luke's character arc was believing Vader could be changed, but then he tries to kill his nephew because of visions in this movie. If the OT didn't exist, of appreciate this movie a lot more.
Tincanmaniac okay... you know this movie is just a continuation of the OT meaning it has to build upon what’s established. It’s established that Luke is deeply emotional and prone to fits of rage, so luke being in an emotional fit of rage would most likely attempt to kill his nephew then immediately regret it as he nearly did it in RoTJ. Why fans act like this is such a huge character flaw is laughable. It’s literally Luke as an old man who’s become disgruntled with his world views due to severe personal loss. How can people not appreciate that? Oh because they wanted in Luke’s words, for him to “walk out with a laser sword and strike down the entire first order”... brilliantly enough, he actually does that the TRUE Jedi way as taught by his master Yoda... “a Jedi is never to use the force for attack, only defense”
Mystic Vac You think Yoda was being that literal when he said that Jedi never uses the Force for attack? I always saw it as him saying we use the Force to serve others and peace, not ourselves. Don’t seek war, but must always be ready for it thing.
I'm just gonna address some questions I'm probably going to get: *"Where have you been?"* Working my dayjob with TeamFourStar editing videos for their RU-vid channels and animating my cartoon: Fist Master. *"Where is Fist Master?"* My new and improved Episode 1 for the show has been completed for a few months now, and it will be up on the TeamFourStar RU-vid channel either late Summer or very early Fall. The new Episode 1 has the same premise as the old one, but it was rewritten so heavily that it barely resembles the old version. It's basically a brand new episode. And every episode after that will be *100%* new material. The two episodes that were released on this channel should be a considered a two-part pilot and non-canon. That kind of thing will never happen again, however, from here on out there's no going back. *"Where is Abridge on Titan?"* I made an entire video announcing that the show was over, dudes. I'm finished with abridging. No amount of asking will ever convince me to start doing it again. *"Does this mean you're making videos again?"* No promises, but I'm definitely going to do my best to release stuff more often. You can probably expect more video essays as well as small animated videos here and there. I may open up my Patreon again and change it so that people only get charged when a video is actually released. I ended my previous Patreon because it was charging monthly, and I knew I couldn't continue producing videos on a monthly basis. I'm also going to start streaming myself animating on Twitch. I'll make an announcement video once that's going down.
Reality Punch Studios I get why you haven’t made video you have other stuff to do Also I really enjoyed this video and I agree with on most of these points I also think that reason why this movie wasn’t really well received because of the pressure and hype that was built around it along with fan theories
Alright, no amount of asking is fine, but is there an amount of cash money that could be offered in exchange for an abridged series. (Possibly aot-S2?)
I'd personally really love to see more videos like this where you discuss your opinions on movies and other media. I'd especially be curious to see if you've kept with Attack on Titan at all and if so what your opinion of the series is.
Han Solo: Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it? -A New Hope
@Mario Perez Legends also says there are space siren things that if you look at while your in hyperspace you will go mad or looking at hyperspace for too long makes you go mad which literally contradicts every single ship in the entire franchise as they are constantly looking out the front facing um "windshield". even more so with x wings, y wings, Jedi starfighters, the Falcon, ect so you can't really pull a non canon source to explain canon. i still don't like the scene and think it's just another stupid thing that further ruins the movie
Stephan Krosecz: Rey finds out she's a nobody. And that is the worst possible news for her. JJ Abrahms: Hold my lightsaber. And I LOVED the lightspeed thru the Dark Fleet Command ship. That was AWESOME!
Luke's depiction, especially visually, in this film owes a lot more to anime than to Star Wars. Walking with the giant cartoon fish over his shoulders is straight out of Dragonball.
Well what the fuck is "star wars" or "anime" anyway? I hate to break it to you, but it's not as grand and operatic as you remember. It's all fiction anyway.
Luke and Kylo is actually my favourite parts of the entire movie, my largest problem is how the movie just is to long and ends after a second climax. If Holdo would just have said something like “do to the sensitivity of this operation, only essential personal will be informed”, then I would not have had any problem with her character.
That would've helped. I suppose it would also have helped if she had a serious outfit, frankly. It works for Mon Mothma, a spiritual leader... not for an admiral. All the worse since Star Wars knows damn well how to have strong female characters, all around. TLJ, not so much... an authoritarian nutjob with no command skill, Mary Poppins, Marey Sue and Rose "I know we're about to die, but I want your babies" don't particularly make a good case. Seems like just a general ideological problem. How to make a strong female character if you despise strength and courage? At some level they want a powerful romcom character... and then people wonder why it doesn't work.
@@sorsocksfake the ideological insersions were among the main things I didn't care for in this film, in large part because they felt forced, particularly at the casino. The war profiteering comments were the only things that worked in context. The commentary on animal rights and wealth disparity felt like a strange digression that killed the flow of the story. None of the ideas except those about war specifically had anything to do with the rest of the plot and it felt like the story went out of it's way to take us there because the director said so. Rose hust felt like an annoying mouthpiece for the director to get on his soap box about his pet issues, which is just annoying in a Star Wars movie regardless of one's position on these subjects. I don't hate Rose as a character, merely her execution for this reason. The ideas about war profiteering work because it speaks to and goves greater depth to the rest of the story. Idk, of the 3 modern social issues that were dropped into this movie (and whivh date it to some extent in my opinion), the idea of people playing both sides of war makes sense as it felt the most like something that fit in the war part of Star Wars. Maybe it's just me. Holdo's actions make sense in concept as explained in this video and there was a solid rationale. Both Poe and Holdo had different plans, they didn't trust each other and they had reason to suspect they were both potential traitors. The problem is the execution of Holdo's decision making and it is what compromises the desired perception of her as a good leader. She came off as incompetant and like kind of an a-hole, not shrewd and measured as intended. Some say that is an obnoxious feminist girl power/berate the boys for being boys message, one which I honestly took from the movie, but while it is possible that is still the case, after this video I now just see as poor execution of an otherwise good idea. Beyond these two things, which I did find really annoying, I actually did very much like the rest of the movie.
Here after episode 9: Oh, young Stephan. So hopeful for the future, as was I. I loved episode 8, it's honestly one of my favorite if not my absolute favorite of the star wars movies. But episode 9...it just breaks my heart seeing how little respect JJ gives to 8 and its bold ideas by backtracking and retconning so much of Johnson's ideas. I wish JJ had seen more videos like this discussing 8 in ways that explain what works so well about the movie while also addressing the things that didn't work. Instead, he and the execs at Disney and Lucasfilm only saw the toxic, vitriolic hate leveled at Johnson and the movie, and so wrote a movie to try and appease the toxic aspects of the fandom in episode 9 by running away from 8's ideas. I wish JJ had embraced more of what 8 did, i think it would have made for a stronger episode 9
I think the reason EP9 disrespected EP8 was because EP8 disrespected EP7 and the entirety of Star Wars before it; terrible writing, galaxy-destroying plot holes and inconsistencies.
As for this video, very well done, it’s nice to see some positivity for a change. I myself love Star Wars in its entirety so it was really nice to hear a solid explanation as to why the story played out the way it did. Also, the length of your video wasn’t an issue to me either as it flowed together pretty well.
King Nothing well in her defence I felt that both boba and jango fett’s characters were hilariously underutilized in both trilogies. I’m a Star Wars fan but all of these fans coming out of the wood works to bash the new trilogy as if the prequels were perfect, as well as people who bash the prequels as if the original trilogy was perfect... idk it just baffles me. The entire series is flawed, George Lucas is just not that great of a writer and people let nostalgia cloud their judgement of that fact. But yes they should have included that fucking scene lmao
@@casteanpreswyn7528 I mean jango killed at least one jedi. Disarmed and fended off a jedi master trying to capture and him and damn. Even out fighting him hand to hand. And his armor is way sweeter than phasmas or boba
Haha, Rogue One is my favorite Disney Star Wars film, and the Last Jedi is the only one I actually didn’t like at all! Different opinions, but good video!
Rogue one was like the dark knight rises of star wars. I really enjoyed the gritty realism and believable blaster fights. And Vader just bodying everyone at the end How did we go from that vader scene to that awful throne room action
I think you're in the vast majority as it has much more interesting and compelling visuals, pacing and story telling than the last jedi. I can't have fun with a 2 and a half hour chase scene with boring and ultimately pointless sub plots that have no effect on the outcome of the film anyway.
Sam Varley I honesty felt the opposite with the pacing in rouge one. It was mediocre until the scarif battle. Which was beautiful( not just the battle but the character moments too and obv the hallway scene)
OH MY GOD it took me two whole years but I finally found somebody who liked this movie Edit: guys don’t try to argue I’ve watched I’ve 30 hours of content on why this movie is ass watch maulers videos
That’s correct the rule of two was made by an ancient with lord known as death bane because he discovered the dark side is like venom the more you dilute it the weaker it gets
Hated the movie, but why would I care if someone else doesn't feel the same way as me? I hate when people try to push their opinions on others, if someone likes something then let them live.
@@jameskillbot2867 yeah that's the problem, TLJ isn't that bad as everyone says you just think it's terrible because it didn't meet your expectations, for others it did, simple
Wait? You hate Rogue One? You’re like the first person I’ve ever heard say that. But it’s so good. You’re not wrong about the characters being a little flat, but everything else is amazing. It’s easily the best looking Star Wars movie, and it has compelling action sequences.
I'd be more interested in that video. I'll admit imo, Rogue One is a little slow in the middle, but the final act had me on the edge of my seat. It truly subverted my expectations.
Rogue One looks good and is a really cool spectacle, but the characters are bland and uninteresting. Blank, unemotive faces and whispering is a problem in a lot of current movies (which I assume stems from the direction given to actors), but these things still make it hard to care much about the characters and what they're doing. I actually like Rogue One fine, though. "Ok, I want you to have a meaningful, pondering face and speak your lines with a husky, low, monotone voice. Remember: we're doing really close-up shots here, so make sure you show NO discernable emotion or people will think we're doing a silent era-film. ACTION! ... CUT! Felicity, was that a fucking smile!? TRANQUILIZERS! NOW!"
He did should say to himself, about hating Rogue One: “How joyless, and annoying, do you have to be, to see Rogue One and go ‘oh, that’s so bad I hate it!’ - we are watching STAR WARS! Have some f*ing fun! LEARN to have fun if, for some reason, you hate this... Star Wars is fantasy! Embrace the fantasy or, I don’t know, stop watching Star Wars...” (see his 43:20)
While I do not hate Rogue One, I didn't like it as much as other SW films. Mainly because of there characters, who were mostly boring, especially the two leads. The only ones I liked were Baze and Chirrut, yeah I didn't even like K2SO that much. Also anyone above the age of like 16 that did not see their deaths coming, I don't know what to tell them, it did the opposite to subverting my expectations, as I expected every single one of them to die.
And honestly I was a fan just before the force awakens so I liked Ashoka (she’s my favourite character) but the fan base after this movie became so toxic I just became annoyed rathe than anything
I'm with you on this. Never has a film I love this much caused me this much misery. At this point, I want Rian Johnson to take his ball and go make a totally different space opera, where people won't scream at every single thing he does.
I have to give you major props. There are few creators that can capture my attention for more than 15 minutes, even on topics for which I am heavily interested in. I was never bored. Subscribed.
I very much enjoy these sequels. I dont think the mindless haters (and when I say that, I mean people who will mindlessly hate regardless of what the argument you have is) give it enough credit. They feel so entitled they can't accept that Star Wars isnt theirs and theirs alone
Thank you for speaking my mind. The only Star Wars films I dislike are Attack of the Clones and to a great degree, Phantom Menace. I went to see Last Jedi in theaters, and It was one of the best movie experiences I ever had, only second to Joker. I can't wait to see "The Senate" in Rise of Skywalker.
I’m so glad you brought up why Luke was alone and why him being closed off was the only approach RJ could take due to how TFA went. I feel like so many people who cursed the movie forgot that Luke was missing and because it ends on a literal cliffhanger with him getting the lightsaber, it really did box him in
I think the last Jedi is a great movie and I think that rise of skywalker devalues it cause jj was being a child and trying to appease fans by cancelling stuff out that happened in the last jedi
About the “inconsistency” of the falling bombs- Gravity- even in space- pulls objects towards nearby objects with a lot of mass. The dread naught is a nearby object with a lot of mass... Anyway, I’d like to see your take on TROS...
The tlj visual dictionary actually explains this! Basically the bombs are magnetized and fall a few meters due to the gravity of the ship, and then magnets are used to pull them to their target
@@picassodilly in order for those bombs to be accelerated at the rate shown, the Dreadnaught would have to have as much mass as like, Jupiter. Do you think that spaceship, even as large as it is, weighs as much as a gas giant?..
The obvious reason Poe wasn’t put in the brig is he destroyed starkiller base and is a hero of the resistance and to imprison him would have negative effect on the resistance troops motivations.
He is also second in command and Leias closest friend. If Holdo killed Poe while she was in a coma she would’ve fired Holdo. You can’t not tell Commanders or Captains the plan. They’re high ranking. That’s like if Franklin Roosevelt made a super cool plan but refused to tell Eisenhower and just didn’t tell anyone why. She never even said to him there was a plan. That’s plain dumb and shit writing. Rian Johnson truly ruined Star Wars
Hollywood Tonight I agree I was merely explaining that while she was wrong her reasons for not putting Poe in the brig were pretty straightforward. It would have been like Leia having Luke sent to the brig a week after blowing up the death star no matter how much it was deserved it would never have stood. The idea itself is nonsensical, much like most of this new trilogy, it seems to me that most of those that love these films believe RJ and JJ are great story tellers because they have been told they are great story tellers. Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed the sequels to some extent but they aren’t even as good as the prequels and are not a patch on the original trilogy most of the legends I have read is better than this new trilogy they could have been so brilliant but there is very little soul in them.
I saw a lot of parallels between TLJ and KotOR II... especially when I saw that scene with the endless reflections of Rey: "There is no great secret, no great revelation. There is only you."
+Star Wordz (StarWordz & TheGrimReaper) Yeah, as much as I love TLJ, I wasn't a fan of Canto Bight or the chase either. Also, Star Wars doesn't really need an animal rights message.
I legitimately cried when I saw the thumbnail. It's been years and it's the first video on the internet that I see that doesn't hate this movie and I am so glad because I have been loving it without talking about it for years 😭💖
Watch Jenny Nicholson, Film Joy, Shaun, Just Write, Lessons from Screenplay, Star Wars Explained, AT-AT chat, Hello Greedo, Loverboy Media, and there's a guy who made a video called "A guide to The Last Jedi", but I don't remember his name. If you search for "Why we love The Last Jedi" you might find a playlist with, I'm not joking, 52 videos praising TLJ. And I know that there are more channels who like this movie. Hope you enjoy!
"I liked The Last Jedi" Oh wow, it's so good to see someone finally stand up to the hate and appreciate such an awesome and underrated movie! "I didn't like Rogue One" Ignites lightsaber in dark corridor
Your not true fan people like you ruin it for true fans like me they ruined luke made a part were it was all about animals getting free that's not about star wars you people r selfish
@@Wolfeur dude rouge one is allot better then last jedi it doesnt ruin vader and the story is actually good but last jedi ruined luke boring story lots of mistake especially in the throne room scene
@@legendarycreator9897 "ruining Luke" is the stupidest argument against TLJ. At best, it's a bad argument against TFA. What TLJ did with Luke made his character actually interesting. But back to my point: I understand not liking Rogue One as I can understand people not being interested in what story it told, or not being attached to the characters, who are honestly pretty bland. However, _hating_ TLJ is ridiculous. The movie does a pretty good job at giving characters depth and arcs, is visually stunning, and offers another point of view to the Star Wars universe.
"Never mistake a loud bastard for an angry mob". That's what I told a friend of mine about 30 days after watching TLJ. Angry and hate comes much louder simply because when you are frustrated you just care too much. The amount of hate videos released since TLJ, is absurd. But saying that the majority of fan hated the movie is just not fair. Usually, people who liked the movie are just not interested in making a RU-vid video about it. Besides, even if someone says that the comments on those videos where predominantly against the movie, would you go there and give them a piece of your mind? I mean, nobody wants to feed the trolls. I say that if back then people who liked the movie had been more vocal, things would be different. I know so many people that like star wars. I couldn't even start to count. But I know, in person, only one guy who hated this movie. The person to whom I said that phrase, and he is a good friend. And I'm not saying he doesn't have his reasons and he is not entitled to his opinion. But I find it hard to believe that outside the circle of people I know, the statistics would be so much different. Anyway, thank you for the video. I relate to your points and thank you for opening this space where we can enjoy TLJ for what it is, and not for what we wanted it to be.
Gustavo Valdiviesso That's fair to assume. However, assuming based solely off your own experience isn't definitive. For example, in my circle, a lot of people are not fond of this movie at all. I'm not saying you shouldn't like this movie. But, in my perspective many people do not like this movie.
I'm not a star wars fan, I hated this movie, all but one of my friends hated it. I enjoy movies with a well thought out story, this movie isn't it, it's a bunch of action set pieces strung together by "story" invented post action set piece inception. Writer 1"We want cool bombs in space WW2 references because those looked cool!!" Writer 2"How do we get that to happen? We have fast bombers with torpedoes in this universe, noone would invest money into slow bombers, that wouldn't make sense" Writer 1"Well, who cares? Just put it in there dude! It will look so cool!" This is a problem with a lot of modern movies, they are made in that order. It's not a complete story where the director team thinks about how to make the action set pieces requried for the story cool it's a bunch of action set pieces loosely tied together by whatever story they can come up with. It doesn't matter if it's internally consistent. For a thinking viewer this doesn't work, it pulls you right out of any immersion you might have had, for someone looking for cool special effects I can see how it's nice however. Just like the transformers movies they were big and stupid but cool looking, and people don't like thinking so much, so they buy it.
My biggest disagreement with this video is the point that “Snoke wasn’t a big mystery.” The level of power he would be expected to command, his origin, the large scar/deformity, the fact that he’s in charge of a galaxy-spanning military government, and that we know nothing about him personally IS the mystery. I don’t see how they can salvage this. Either he’s a nobody which, from a viewer’s perspective, begs the question of “why wasn’t someone more interesting written in as the leader of the Order” or he’s some big bad-ass which, also from a viewer’s perspective, begs the question of “so...you one-shotted the BBEG? Must not’ve been all that powerful.” Outside of clones or Force Projection, I don’t see a way out of this that isn’t super lazy or hand-wavey.
They didn't write him as a mystery. The way one writes mysteries starts with characters asking questions on screen about it. Not a single character asks about Snoke's history or identity. Whenever anyone talks about him it's in a way that they know all they need to know about him. The only reason you think he's a mystery is because the prequels has programmed Star Wars fans to think everything needs a backstory. Snoke's best narrative use is to further the character of Kylo Ren. Kylo killing him and wanting to take advantage of the power vacuum. It puts the villain the audience actually care about in the position of main villain.
@@christophthemad8291 People were curious about him because he *is* a mysterious character. It's common sense to wonder and ask questions about someone when he appears out of nowwhere and suddenly controls the most powerful army in the galaxy and somehow is a powerful sith despite Palpatine only teaching one person at a time.
@@manuellord2010 Here's the thing. Nobody in universe cared about who he was. Just because fans demanded a backsrory doesn't mean he needed one. Everyone in universe treats Snoke like they did with Palpatine in Return of the Jedi. He's a bad guy with a bunch of force powers and rules the bad guy army. Nobody needed a backstory then and we don't need one now, especially since his narrative utility in the franchise is to push Kylo Ren's development. Fans need to stop thinking about Star Wars like a wiki page and start thinking about it as movies again.
I have always believed that Snoke was a puppet of either the real big bad(could be anyone, including a form of Palatine) or a clone of the real Snoke, who is so untrustworthy that he never allows personal interaction with anyone. Snoke puppet gets killed by kylo as was planned by the puppet master for reasons kylo doesn't see. The reason was that kylo was being used for "a diabolical purpose to be revealed in the final film."
@@christophthemad8291 Here's the thing. The Sith's rule of two was already established in canon, and Snoke doesn't exactly look very young, so he must have existed for quite some decades. Maybe nobody in the universe asks who he is but it is only natural for fans to wonder about a mysterious new powerful character living in the shadows for who knows how long .Snoke's story as it is simply seems like a waste.
While I disagree with most of your points I still liked the video. I have lived more than long enough to know that a subjective assessment is the only thing that determines whether you like something or not and it'll be hard to convince people otherwise but you explained your reasoning well and no one should fault you for that. That being said, having a few years in the military myself, I can tell you this. Holdo brought half of her problems with Poe on herself. Holdo did actually know about the hyperspace tracking. Leia points that fact out. What did happen is he asked her what his job was and she told him to go shoot on his thumbs. Despite her telling him she knew his type she failed to realize he might do something stupid without her directing him. Especially seeing that with all the chaos going on she was likely the only one with the rank to do it. And he would have done it. He took orders directly from Leia naturally that's became her job. Which she also could have delegated to someone else if need be. If this was some kind of mentorship deal (a huge deal in the military by the way), all she had to do was have him stay with her to get stuff done. I'm rambling though if anyone cares to respond I'll be more coherent.
Im gonna have to agree with you on what you said about Holdo. But despite her flaws I loved the way the actress portrayed her. It was the scriptwriters who ruined her...
JorgeFabrizio very valid point. But with that said, i still dont think Holdo single handedly brought down this entire film. There is no way that Holdo alone could make this movie a terrible movie.
Well I was only talking about my only sticking point as it relates to this video. Not about my thoughts on the movie as a whole. I'd rather not reopen that can of worms.
I don't care how long these video essays are. The reason why I think these video essays are so good is because they're as long as they need to be in order to convey every important point.
Some of your points are good. Haven't finished watching yet ... but one of the reasons for Luke hiding away could be he's looking for answers because he realises the dark side/light side paradox. It could be that the consciousness of the entire dark side tried but couldn't kill him, but successfuly caged him instead. It could be he was evolving to something beyond a Jedi. There are a lot of potentially very good story lines as to why he disappeared.
Underrated Comment right here. I see that people chose to either oversimplify the main points against the movie (like saying "its just a movie just enjoy it", as to say don't criticize somnthing you don't like) or just counterpoint the dumbest ones like " why didn't they send a droid to smash the ship against the others".
Great video, but the bombs in space is easily explained with one of two explanations. 1. Magnets 2. The ships internal gravity is still affecting the bombs causing them to fall. Nothing is stopping them from falling once they are in space so they continue to fall.
Top GM Or they are stationary relative to the nearest source of gravity. One thing people often forget is that there is gravity in space, you just wouldn’t feel it when in orbit.
Top GM the dreadnaught pply don’t have the mass to pull them in at that rate. It’s not a planet. Magnets could perhaps work- or some kind of invisible tractor beam. Still they seemed to be the most flimsy, clumsy and slow bombers the rebels have in their arsenal. Use Y-wings!
This movie ages like fine wine. The more time passes, the more I appreciate it, even though I didn't dislike it the first time I saw it. Sadly the amount of dislikes tells me there will be the need for even more time for this movie to get the recognition it deserves and hopefully your analysis too.
Haldo should have been a legacy character but I'll agree that while loved by the fandom (for some reason) I don't think I could take Admiral Akbar seriously in that situation either.
I liked TLJ when it came out. Mostly because I was one of those weird guys that liked Kotor 2 more than Kotor 1, and I saw a lot of influences from Kotor 2, whether intentional or not, in the thematic presentation of TLJ. Kotor 2 was the first Star Wars material, expanded or otherwise, that I had experienced that would touch on core philosophical issues of the Force itself, and how it interacts with individuals in the Star Wars universe. While some of that may be because I first played the Kotor games in high school and thus would have been subject to /r/im14andthisisdeep, I do remember specifically the second game as being the first time in my life I went back and examined something I had cherished as a child critically. If you haven't seen it, look up "The Philosophy of Kreia" here on RU-vid. That type of examination is what made me have zero problem with Grumpy Old Man Luke, because it shows that not all character development is linear progression, that interpersonal trauma can cause one to re-evaluate their own goals in life.
Not weird at all. KotOR 2 is probably my favorite game. Ever. And yes, I also really enjoyed TLJ because I saw the parallels between that game and the movie.
Count me in too! Kotor 1 is great (and it's also finished!) but Kotor 2 holds a special place in my heart, warts and all. It made me long for more stuff like that in this universe, and so far TLJ is the only piece of media that's managed to scratch that itch.
I loved TLJ. It was obviously flawed from my first viewing, but for me, it was always greater than the sum of its parts. Your video, however, made me appreciate it even more; it made me see things I had not seen before, understand bits that I liked but could not quite explain why, and even reevaluate parts I did not like. Thank you so much for this!
First watch (I was ten): I LOVE IT! Second watch (Now fourteen): Wait a second, did I actually like this shit? Third watch: Oh, yeah, no this is awesome.
Can you do a video "Rogue One - Why I Hated It?" Reason being, I genuinely disagree with majority of your points, but, you bring most things about in a knowingly subjective way and found the video entertaining because of that... Thus, I'm curios to see where / why we disagree also on Rogue One.
I love The Last Jedi and majorly disliked Rogue One despite everyone in the group I saw it with absolutely loving it. Would love to see if his reasons for hating RO are similar to mine or to simply put my dislike into words through him.
I think you've missed one thing about Rose. When we meet Rose, she lost her sister. She is sad, but not angry. She doesn't want to go and kill the entire First Order. When they go to Casino planet there is a beautiful scene right before they escape. Finn says something like: "It was great to wreck havoc to this town", and she takes of the saddle of the weird horse, sets it free and says "now its worth it". And that was amazing. She despises the casino-planet and its people, she lost her sister, but i the end she wasn't satisfied by destruction, but by saving animals and spreading hope to children. She embodies what they supposed to do, and how they need to win. That's the meaning of "We win by saving what we love". And it doesn't devalue Holdo's sacrifice, because she did that to save remaining ships, not to destroy FO fleet. That's the difference and I think Hold and Rose teach us the same lesson.
"And here is why Rian Johnson did an amazing job and JJ can do almost anything with Episode Xl while still driving Star Wars to an exciting new direction" JJ and screeching fanboys: And I took that personally
This movie can save Infinity War, Infinity War sucked so much the only way to save it is to make it a crossover, when the emojies were disappearing is that Thanos snapped
Amazing video! I absolutely loved TLJ and I find something new to think about every time I watch it (or even think about it!) Your video explained everything so beautifully. Great job! Also thanks for being positive and constructive and respectful. There are those in this fandom who have forgotten how to do that (not EVERYBODY, but some). This was very refreshing!
I'd love to see Luke's "force ghost" keep appearing to Kylo throughout episode 9 to torment and put doubt/conflict in his mind like Harvey/Scorpius does to Crichton in Farscape, maybe with a twist Fight Club 'ish ending where Luke's real force ghost appears and reveals that it was all in his head.