Elemental shamans are overpowered when they stack 3 or 4 of them in battlegrounds (BGs). They win every group fight and, consequently, the entire BG. On my rank 7 paladin, I had a losing streak of about 25 matches in Arathi Basin, no joke.
The rank 7 grind on my paladin was so goddamn painful. First it was enhancement that caused trouble, then a lot of shamans transitioned to elemental and it became even worse in BGs. AV is going to be non-stop horde wins, because I know exactly how it will go down: elemental shamans will put down loads of earth bind totems (which now root, yay), at the choke point to Iceblood GY and prevent all but paladins (freedom) and stealthers from slipping through, and then simply unload chain lightnings. It's going to be a bloodbath 💀
The reason Shamans are a problem is the rune system itself. Any spec can use any rune. So they nerf shaman tanks in pve because ele abuse the rune in pvp. Iv never said this in your comments before but I personally know a few devs at blizzard on a professional level, none of the sod team. But many of the devs are just 2 heads and they get equal say in many of the changes made, there are people doing jobs they aren't qualified for and it shows in their products. It was obvious to me from the start of SoD that the runes were going to cause problems with class balance in pvp and pve because you are trying to make classes viable for roles they were never intended for, rogue tank, shaman tank, warlock tank, and so on. Giving a dps class a tank talent in pve, no dps wil ltake it but in pvp they will, because of course they will. So to stop the children from crying they have to nerf it for pvp, and that cripples the pve intent of the rune. It's an obvious design flaw in the game that could have been easily seen if they actually played the game, its really clear they don't actually play at this point. It would have been simple to fix this if instead of runes they gave us extra talent points that could be found in the world like runes are now, and then put the respective skills inside an expanded talent tree similar to how they are doing things in a war within where they give you a new skill tree based on your spec and that new tree is not the same for every spec, keeping the classic feel of the game and solving the issues before they start.
I feel ya amigo, I mean its something I was talking about with a friend of mine in the creator industry here as well on this topic. If they only had it balanced were pvp/pve skills were different without harming one side of the spectrum to hard for players who enjoy 1x preference over the other, things could've been handled much differently if not for the better. I think were at this point now of the testing in SOD were we have to see how things play out, let them learn there mistakes, and further have constructive discussions on the future of Classic+ years down the road if we ever get there. In the meantime brodi you know me, ima keep crankin stuff out 💪🏼happy 4th!
@@HelloJTello Happy 4th to you too man, I am hopeful for whatever drops after SoD. And hopefully they learn from the mistakes like you said. We could really get something special the second time around. Maybe SoD will turn out to be better than I expect who knows.
I keep hearing this but ele shamans dont use way of earth rune if their any good lol I'm not losing half my sp for some health. The only rune we use that is hybrid is riptide
@aaronrodgers9202 I was playing enhance so I can't say for sure but I agree with you and blizzard is bad at their jobs like I said its rather clear they dont play the game they are making. It's also why iv unsubbed from wow, the phase 4 changes were uniquely idiotic.
I can see resto shamans taking WotE still, but elementals will lose out on 120 spell damage. Earth Shield gives good effect hp and spell pushback. Really shaman tanks got nerfed because the devs didn't account that rockbiter was designed and balanced around having one weapon. This means that sword and board shaman was performing well, and duel wield shamans with rb/rb had attack power through the roof. They chose to brick the AP from RB instead of modify it to impact the respective weapon damage. This brought dw rb/rb in line but pissed all over warden enhance. Changing RB to only impact individual weapon damage, while giving ele an incentive that makes running RB a big loss would have been enough to fix shaman balance without gutting certain play styles.
As a Alliance Druid tank, I can't help but feel like we got shafted. Resto got a few changes but was already the best spec. Balance got a small bonus to sp in moonkin and the dot buff that priests got as well. Feral cat has increased dot damage and aoe now. Yet bear tank still has to choose between the buff that every raid wants or our best defensive ability. And it feels bad having to lose 20% dr and crit immune because you are forced to run wild strikes. I'm either trolling my dps by not using wild strikes or trolling my healers by running wild strikes. We need some love.
@@krato27 this is why a lot of Paladins wish we had WF on our Auras instead of forcing durids to have to implement this into there build because they have to. Atm the talk of utility with this classic team seems to be closed for now unitl further notice.
Well one I always enjoyed alliance since playing wow, I played both factions overall. And two, no complaints from me just suggesting the idea for Paladins since our aura's need improvements for utility anyway, which is totally fine to discuss even if it doesn't happen.
Happy 4th brother. I really don't give a hoot about all the PTR changes because 1) it's probably all gonna change again anyway, and 2) all the content creators (much love to ya) and Discord gremlins (shoutout to Surveillant) are gonna work it out and they're smarter than me anyhow so yep we're chillin. Phase 4 hype phase 4 hype BUT ANYWAY still gonna let the video play all the way out, hope that helps, and oh yeah happy 4th!
Looking at the LOGs on Testwork I think there gonna need to do a lot of balancing. Ret was quite low but we probably will scale extremely well with gear now because Vengeance Rune. I think Ret won't pop off until near BiS. The cool thing is though with Seal Twisting is our damage is reversed bell curve with crap gear we will do a lot of DPS compared to other classes with crap gear but when at medium gear we fall off hard. I think it will be like TBC Sunwell in the later phases we will reach breakpoints were Seal Twists Start Double > Quad Criting very frequently and our new Vengeace Rune will have 100% up time. I think until that point Ret will be middle of the pack. The question at full gear this phase do we reach that point or will it be later like in Naxx.
I think it's the long game as your mentioning. Overall I saw DPS Paladins hitting pretty okay on Testwerk with a high of 2,400 DPS.. now on testwerk that is subject to change once in P4 since Testwerk is crit pretty hard with Exo so its like guarantee crit most the time fighting him. Overall with gear and fully bis'd out, plus testing this seal stacking 6-pc set, I am curious to see were we stand at the end of this phase. I wouldn't be disappointed with middle of the pack just not dead last.
@HelloJTello I agree, even with SoD failing at a few things the one thing we can't say they failed is making the unviable specs work, it's very refreshing. I'm 90% sure that you don't have a GCD to Exorcism when you have wildstrikes. I think since CS, DS and Judge can all proc Wildstrikes and the DoT for Vengeace Rune, I think always prioritising them it's more DPS than Exorcism. On a short fight Exorcism wins because you not crit or proc but in a longer 1 minute fight, the Vegeance and Wildstrike damage overtakes the damage for Exorcism. Even Seal Twisting Procs Wildstrikes at a way higher rate than any class.
Rogue damage was WTF in PvP. Hard to tell though sense most classes missing something stupid like 25% HP or More. But it was enough to wonder how any NON-Plate Equivalant class could survive the attentions of a rogue. Shaman, Warlock, Spriest, Warrior, Paladin, Hunter, Druid... all kinda = Plate gear in the grand skeme of things... so I wasn't sweating it that hard. In reality its not the Plate that makes Paladins Chads is the Defensive CD's + Shield. Most Classes have a 40% ish physical damage reduction.
I love my fights with rogues.. from the good ones or the bad ones I fought overall always its an either "this happens type of fight", "or this occurs". Overall I think they will still be good just maybe Blizzard is trying to align that big burst with other things in the rogue rotation to make them not only need to rely on this specific ability for most there damage.. Than again mutilate ain't going nowhere and I still think with the hit they should be fine.
Warlock Passive Healing Buff is actually GOOD... beleive it or not. As they stand they are VERY supseptable to 30y ranged CHIP damage. There self healing vs any thing beyond 20y is HORRIBLE... is like 700 HP every 12s or some such. So a MUCH needed Buff... well targeted to Lock IMO. Litterally Paladins could kill them with Exorcism spam alone at 30y range... no joke. SL be damned
Yea Exo spam on locks I always felt that damage on them. I always enjoyed my fights with them in BGs or outside open world. Definitely nice as I play a lock alt myself with Soul Link pvp being my thing I was rocking with. Looking forward to test out these changes when I get around to my lock at some point in P4. More sustain, stronger pet, new aura, most our damage is shifted to our pets anyways with this build, and we can bring a pet back up immediately if needed by default with Fel Domination if it were to die or be sacrificed. I can't wait to check it all out.
Id love to see prot paladins take the SP route, if we could get better coefficients for our spells, just make us scale with SP... Otherwise it just feels like a warrior
Yea I think further design choices in the future with how some abilities scale with SP or AP should be further looked into. Overall I don't want the scales weighing so hard to one side over the other. However, they need to figure this out with more time which unfortunately they didn't have due to several reasons.
I believe deep prot for pally will only be a thing if the bosses require it. If they dont, Prot pally will stick with sheath of light and focus on more damage then mitigation if the boss fight allows it. Damage will still be king. I hope i'm wrong because I want to feel that fantasy of actually being a tank. I will miss being mostly ret and competing with the other dps, and being the tank, But I want the sword and board play more so, I'm hoping the change is enough.
Tho sheath of light only improves exorcism dmg, and you can't spam that ability anymore since it's a 15 sec cd button, thus we need the AP from MP since our main dmg is Melee, SoM, HoTR.
@@x7zauman910 well you can spam it every other global if you take purifying power. And if you take a look at the test work logs. Exo is most of the damage.
im trying to understand why anyone would want to complain about a nerf of an ability that was so OP that it is the only ability that all rogues used. it was the only ability that kills most classes in a stun lock combo, and it was the only ability that made rogues top parse. now it is a really good ability, and not OP.
I mean yea Phase 3 Shamans are a tough cookie, at the end of the day I just keep my attitude positive in hoping for good changes and see were things are at within Phase 4 BGs 👌🏼
Every phase, every expansion, every patch there is one class. This is shaman’s one chance. They never had a good expac or focus on their capabilities like they have now. I played OG classic ele shaman too. Waited 20 years for blatant performance problems to be addressed and watched countless classes have that mantle. As King Terenas Menethil II said, no King rules forever…
@@CatDad09 Classic, TBC, Wrath, Cata, MOP so on, shaman roles were mostly relegated to healing. Their mana management or DPS output were always below average compared to other classes. They always had niches in PvP but were never the go to class.
Ahh... Way of Earth... yeah THAT one. Way of Earths Opression came not so much in all the defensive gains but in the fact that Earth Shock was on a Sperate CD. Its a MASSIVE DPS Increase and on a 5s CD... 2s interupt and School lock... its basically Mortal Strike. It's been one of the abilities I worry about the most... With Ele it was FINE because you could Range it... Then they got WOLVES and the move speed icrease + Ele + this Rune likely made it OP AF. Ele with move speed is BAD game Design 100%. They are balanced around you can just RUN from them and they can't do much about it... + Mana issues. Well they took away the mana issues and the immobile issue and created a monster. Good change... might still need more. Like another Shamanistic Rage Nerf down to 2m CD
Yea they have wolves and on top of the move speed increase you mention, plus being Ele covering more ground, getting more abilities off before reaching them which hit like a truck. If they nerf Shamanistic rage I can hear the screams from Shaman mains right now lol.. I am curious to see how they play out once fully BIS to see how much more output from them is really going to impact pvp overall.
Ok as a Shaman tank These changes suck Effectively what you're saying is oh all You're pulling abilities are 10 Yards ? On top of that , the nerves to melstrom weapon This is just gonna make the class feel so much worse. Honestly what blizzard needs to do Is handle this the way they do it in Retail and if you don't know When the nerf and ability for pvp It's specifically says four pvp Combat Instead of across the board. And whether you like retail or not You have to admit it's a lot better Then just nerving something that's obnoxious pvp Then Across the board. Aka From what I've seen, the change is nothing.I see looks good for shaman's. Let me put it this way.I'm going to be livid if I have to re role A warrior or a drew it tank. In Phase four And before someone says What do you mean 150% What I say to that is That doesn't help me get my runes now does it.
@@megamanx627 the for pvp combat is something I can relate with. I do wish for balancing in a way were pvp is affected differently like retail handles it in a sense. However its just something they never will do I feel at this point. Idk if they have the time frame giving all the wasted time into Cata from putting SOD on hold and trying to manage P4 now.
@@HelloJTello shaman ele in bg is very good , in PVE is so WORST , just watching ptr log .... ele shaman is good in group PVP no solo ... ( little buff ele , buff healing , but nerf ENH
As a shaman player who played a class since og classic who never had someone utter those words to me…. I finally get to say this for the first time in 20 years…. GIT - GUD 😂😂😂
Yea I am curious to see the full data once the P4 official patch is out and than in a couple weeks some logs may show Blizzard some further information since they base there data of WCL a lot, which may not be the best way to go about it but does show data nonetheless.
