The LDS Gospel Topics Essays - A History by Dr. Matt Harris - Mormon Stories 1365 

The greater issue for me is we are taught these men were/are the literal mouthpieces for God himself. Whether they were born in the 1800’s or the 1900’s it shouldn’t matter. This is especially true when you consider that God is the same yesterday, tomorrow, and forever. God is not going to be racist before the 1970’s then change his mind, that just doesn’t make sense.

We been in Utah abt 2 years. Elders been workin us. Good folks and the Mormons are most of who in our subdivision. We love them - they walk the talk. I stared my own research on the church just so’s I’ll kinda know for my family’s sake. Abt 2 weeks ago a ran across these essays, Book of Abraham, etc. My family is trusting me to lead them in the right church. Family’s be so disappointed in me if we joined and they later found out I knew all along the church was founded and supported all these issues I can see why it tears families apart. And J. Smith and B.Young - to me, they set up a nice racket. Darn shame, too, regular Mormons are such great folks.

John, this was a great podcast and I think that Matt is very thoughtful and I appreciate what he said on many levels. I can only speak for myself. I am now 64 and just left the church along with my wife and entire family. There are so many things that I can say about this experience but here is my point that I want to make in this post. I understand Matt’s thoughts about the future of the church and the integration of essays in the fabric of the church, to address it head on. No matter what they do, they have lost me. The point or reason is that they have KNOWING deceived us for decades! HOW can you reconcile that? These men are supposed to be the mouthpiece for God. How could God allow them to lie to us about things that were taught as doctrine by the leaders of the church. If they expect me to answer yes, to the question, “Are you honest in all your dealings with your fellowman?” then they should have to answer in the affirmative as well. THEY CANNOT!

They call themselves General AUTHORITIES. So as a former member, I know we were taught what they say is from God. So very glad I have broken ties with the LDS church.

As a busy surgeon and father of six children I cannot say how thankful I am for these scholars. I served for six years as bishop in the church. I have been a member for over 30 years. Thanks to a forced pandemic lockdown I have had a chance, for the first time, to dig for truth on lds history. The Essays have been a joy to read....and helped me to feel a freedom not felt for a very long time. Things can quickly unravel when the glassed I wear are switched out for better ones. It is hard to think of the journey...both good and quite terrible....in the lds faith.

Wow! So much Gaslighting back when the church started and still Today. I’ve learned so much Truthfulness and Transparency listening to Mormon Stories than i ever had in almost 40 years.When i was is the church.

The “iron rods” that led me out out of the mists of LDS darkness, after over 5 decades of wandering around in it were: First, the CES Letter that I had stumbled upon, and second, the Gospel Topics Essays, which I clamoured in desperation to, to find direction and clarity from. As I poured over them, (after I eventually found them), I saw they offered neither. Heartache and despondent at the deception and loss, I was left in tatters. 18 months later, I’m finally finding my own way in the world. I will never return to that cult. The still small voice is really my own small voice, and I see now that it has always been so.

John, I don’t think you interfere in YOUR interviews at all. As a never-in, I appreciate when you ask for or give clarification for all. You often steer your interviewees who go off the tracks. Your input is valuable, your leadership is focused and your teaching moments are sincere and professional. ✌🏼 and ❤️ from Philly to all. Thank you Matt for your hard work.

1:50:31 “there are tons of latter-day saints who have left the church over these essays”. I am one of them

I joined the church in 1970 when blacks could not hold the priesthood and no blacks could enter the temple. I subsequently went on a mission (as a lady missionary) in 1973. I went through the temple and received my endowments. Funny thing is that per my Ancestry DNA results I have sub Saharan African blood. I shouldn't have been allowed in the temple per their guidelines.

You know what concerns me? Would the brethren have been as concerned if the statistics showed it was the lower middle class and poor who were leaving? Or did these things only get addressed because it was affecting the "best and brightest?"

Wow! Over 3-hours! Dr. Harris! Mormonism never ceases to peak my interest-it's definitely at the pinnacle for any to study, for sure, it's got it all. 👍🏾❤️👍🏽❤️

This fascinating interview confirms my impression from reading the GTEs - not transparently honest. Why does the One True Church have a problem with telling the truth?

The essays were created as a protection against lawsuits. LDS made these essays available on their website as a protection against lawsuits when new members joined the church. They however do not advertise or make it clear that this info is out there. The lawsuits could be in the billions by former members that were lied to by the church about its history.

That Jensen statement that The Church is experiencing the greatest apostasy since Kirkland...is what perked up Jeremy Runnells attn and started his rabbit hole journey! ❤️ #CESLetter

I hope the church keeps making the mistakes it’s always made because I want it to fail. I want every member to be freed from the shackles of this great lie. Thank you John.

At 2:02 reminded me of something I said in Gospel Doc. class being taught by a stake leader regarding a principle he was teaching the I knew was not quite the truth: "A whitewashed cow pie is still a cow pie." He was stunned and I thought for a moment I was going to be kicked out of the class. Still makes me smile to remember it.

I had the same experience when I was going through my faith crisis and talking to my parents. I showed them in the gospel topics essays how Joseph smith married a 14 year old and used a peep stone to translate the BOM and they still thought I was reading “anti-Mormon” literature. But the GTEs really were what helped seal the deal for me no longer believing since no longer could I say the things I was reading was anti Mormon and lost all trust and credibility in the church when I realized the “anti-Mormons” were the ones telling the truth the whole time and it was the church who was lying.

I just ordered The LDS Gospel Topics Series and the Watchman on the Tower ETB and the making of the Mormon Right from Benchmark Books in SLC. I agree with John that supporting LDS Topic Historians is a good cause and also supporting local booksellers is also important. They are mailing me the books to SoCal.

Dr. Harris, I thought you were kind to the church on your brief mention of polyandry and how it could possibly be smoothed over by the church being more open and honest about it. I have considered myself a firm defender of the faith since I joined at age 13 in 1976. The dynastic reasoning for polyandry was a major crack in the foundation of my testimony. The Church counsels us to avoid the very appearance of evil, which in this case, includes the desire for another man’s wife (for whatever unconventional and unprecedented purpose is outside of Christian teachings) and to do it in secret. No justification that I have heard will do for this ‘off the rails’ course not to mention the other aspects of polygamy and its aftermath which includes being the catalyst for a multitude of polygamist splinter groups yesterday and today. This unfavorable aspect of church history will continue to haunt the church for years and generations yet to come.

Cheers from Brazil! I'm going through my faith crisis right now. Your videos are helping a lot to learn things I didn't know about a lot of these subjects

It's in the culture with the racism. My mixed kids were tortured in Utah when I moved there for a few years in 1990. Neighbors would call police saying I had gangbangers over. Walk to the store in Provo and people would yell n lover out the car window. My daughter was assulted by a group of mormon boys after shool while they screamed and called her the n word over and over. She came home bleeding I called the school. Much more than that happened and my fam says get over it because the cult isn't racist anymore. I didn't understand the depths of the mormon racism until I moved to Utah. Actives get so mad when I try to talk about any trauma my kids went through. I'm trying to deal with my trauma to...

Wow, this is one of the best podcasts on current Mormon history. I find it interesting to see the inner-church politics.

I am reading this book now. It is very good at addressing the topics picked. Good for the church. I have been out for 30 years but still desire to understand. Thank you.

I am close friends with a scientist who was asked by Marlin Jensen to write an article regarding DNA and the Book of Mormon/ American Indian . My friend is a widely published scientist who has written both books on DNA, and a large university textbook on Genetics. He gave me a copy of his paper before submission to read but not publish. In the end, the church did not use this material. There were difficult points that they may have not liked. First, he laid out in scientific form citing studies of the American Indian showing concretely that they are of East Asian origin, arriving on this continent roughly 15,000 years ago. They populated the Americas well before BoM times propose. Two, the BoM tells of an empty continent preserved by God for his chosen people. The D&C clearly follows young earth creationism in the 6,000 year old earth and is a large source for the temple endowment. The DNA and other measures totally destroy that narrative and by extension the endowment. For fundamentalists, this is kryptonite. There is no way the “limited geography” model the church promotes is possibly true, and my scientist friend warned them of this issue in his paper. Evidently, they chose to ignore the warning, and now thinking people can read the LDS scriptures and GA talks and clearly see that they are at odds with factual empirical truth. On the other side, as I was going through faith crisis and studying these and other things well before the essays and CES Letter, I had always trusted that God would reveal truth to his Prophets since they professed that this is what they did. I thought this would be a simple matter that the prophets would ask God, he would show them the correct answers, and they would tell us the factual truths in general conference and writings. What do we actually find? The GAs know less than I do, and rely upon others to compile faith promoting stories to inoculate but not inform the whole stories. My impression of the GAs claiming to talk to God went right out the window. They have no more contact with any God than any other person, but take as God’s word the very thoughts and human emotions that they experience. This promotes an entire organization based on the interpretation that emotions outweigh empirical evidence. Such a travesty of what good they might be doing. Let’s try having them be honest in ALL their dealings first. Then, they might be worth listening to. Sorry for the rant.

Ordered!! Huge thanks to Matt and John. Your value is incalculable!

Just purchased a copy. As a member in Africa, im curious to know the impact of the essays on members on the continent. I know you guys usually focus on the heart of the church which is Utah and the US in general, but would be great to get a global perspective. Hopefully your resources will make that possible someday.

I have truly enjoyed this podcast. My book is on its way from Amazon!

Superbly informative and enlightening interview! This is as phenomenal and important as the interviews with Dr. Ritner, Shannon Caldwell Montez, etc.

Stayed up all night and read “A Scholarly Engagement” Just when I thought there was nothing else of merit to read! So well researched and written, accessible usable information so beautifully condensed and presented. This book is a must add to your must read.🙏

"Bear each others burdens" etc. 2:00- 2:10 is a brilliant shout out. Thanks, Matt.

I would never have joined the Church, 40 years ago, if I had been told all the things I am learning today about the Church.

At 50:00. Matt is referring to the sociologist Rodney Stark (University of Washington - Seattle) who claimed there would be 50 million Mormons by the year 2030. Incidentally, I was at the American Sociological Meetings in Toronto in 1997 where this idea was put forth of massive growth in the LDS church. Rodney had published some of his predictions at that point. The church at the same time was promoting the narrative of massive church growth. They hit the 10 million mark I think in 1995 or 1996. There were 65,000 missionaries deployed worldwide. The membership numbers are not an accurate reflection of what is happening in the church. It is the active membership that counts. It varies globally, but active members may only comprise 8% - 25% of ward membership. Then there is a separate rate of retention for newly baptized members. That can vary by area. In fact numbers have been in decline for some time. The UK has seen a massive drop in active members in the last decade. Same for Europe and some other parts of the world. Other faiths and denominations are experiencing similar problems.

You keep doing you, You're amazing John! Thank you!

1:54:09 and on for several minutes really is the crux of this topic! Love the bullseye analogy and the discussion of plausible deniability.

This was terrific John. Great chemistry, great content. 💜🙏🏾🇿🇦

I like when John jumps in, as long as he isn't speaking more than 40% of the interview. I think he does a great job as an interviewer. Any complaints I have are minor and I don't even ever any off the top of my head

Definitely more Matt please.

I’ve always marveled at how anyone with intelligence could swallow even the basics and commonly known history and origins of Mormonism. Then it gets even more unbelievable as time goes on and more doctrine is learned.

1:53:00 Matt pisses me off! I was a member of the LDS Church for thirty-three years. I have been a high priest. To stay in his terminology, I was sitting in the center of the dartboard. I left because of the Gospel Topics Essays! I was anything but a liberal!!!

Thank you for taking the time to read my text I will read this information let me ask this missionary guys are so nice and when I talk about something I heard I see then looking confused and I feel like what I know they don't know yet and I feel bad or do they know .

Reading The Saints volumes was the beginning of my worry. I have the same problem with the gospel essays. Makes my faith very rocky. In Australia, we know a lot about church history. I was trying to be a diligent member by reading all these things and now I am totally freaking out.

Love hearing from Dr. Harris. I may need to audit a class one of these days!

I watched this from the UK. It's absolutely phenomenal

More of this guy, please!!!!!!!

Absolutely agree. Progress must be rewarded. The church is less deceptive, less devious and obfuscating of the truth. Kudos. Well done. Standing ovation

I Just purchased The Book!

Amazon ca was out of this book. We ordered it to come later. Very interesting. Thank you, Matt. Thank you, John.

John - please do the episode on members excommunicated for telling the truth (and how the church now references their work).

My Dad was born & raised in Pueblo, Colorado. My grandparents were among the 1st settlers in Blande.

Just bought the book. From Walmart. Thanks for the great work!

The church essays are hard to find. They are also written in the absolute most rationalized way possible. Once you wake up to what's going on you can see all sorts of stuff everywhere. One of the first things that made me stop and think about whether the church was true was the brother of Jared - Moriancumer - really!?!? Let's name one kid Jared and the other skipididoda! Is that a family name or something? 🤣Give me a break! I think Broseph (Brother Joseph) must have been drinking his own Koolaid when he "revealed" that little gem!

The Dublin Ireland stake held symposia / firesides on the gospel topics essays in the last couple of years. There are a number of scholarly members here who had a big interest and got permission from the stake to hold events discussing them. But only a relatively small crowd turned up. Most ordinary members here were a bit meh about the whole thing. I was inactive myself at the time and although I was invited to attend i didn't (as I had already read and studied them right from their release). They were a reasonable part of my faith crisis. Shawn McCraneys stuff on HOTM was the imputes for my faith crisis, also your interviews with various people on Mormon stories John.

I was following and sharing Stephen Webb's work (I was a catholic before I joined the church) when he committed suicide. I am still shocked and wondering why. Interesting that he was a contributer to the essays.

As mentioned during this discussion, there are many foundational reasons why the Church does not stand on a solid foundation (I am not a hater, just a critical thinker). I actually left the Church many years ago simply because of the requirement of perfection, the hypocrisy of people, and continues shaming/judgement. I got sick of it. The Church and some of the members don't even pass the "What Would Jesus Do" test.

John, I pray that you will find a doctor that can help with your breathing. I've heard you wheezing in several podcasts/videos and my heart goes out to you. I have COPD so I know what wheezing sounds like. Lord, please help John breathe freely.

I really appreciate Matt Harris doing this interview. Was Matt Harris involved in the writing of any of the essays? 1:54 is a good explanation of the impact of the essays.

Why is Dr. Harris worried about membership numbers as if that is some groundwork? It is simply not “as far as we can go.” Membership numbers should not trump truth.

God is Love and leads in love. God's truth is Love. Any organisation claiming to Truly represent God would be always ahead of the world, leading in love, would always treat all people as equal.

Sounds very interesting just bought the book from Amazon.

what Matt says at 58:14 is exactly my story. except I am 40 not 50: seminary, mission, temple marriage, active my whole life… Then I discovered the church Essays. the deception!! 😡 and then finding out these essays are whitewashed I got really angry 😡😡

After 45 years of membership and struggling with my beliefs I finally realised i was dealing with a cult and not a church.

Any time actual TRUTH is given there should not be an issue period!! To hide any of it is wrong!!

No, no, no. We can’t chalk up comments that previous leaders made as something from the time that they lived in......they were either ‘TRUE’ and the word of God, or NOT. THAT is the crux of the matter, regardless of the era one lived in, IS IT FROM GOD’S MOUTH?

Whoa, did John start MormonThink? That website was my "CES Letter"

I don’t think the General Authorities worried about the collateral damage, caused but the sofa release of the essays. They looked at all the options on how to release this information and decided this would minimize the membership loss.

Is Matt a member of the Church? Just out of curiosity.

This question may have been answered before, but is Travis Stratford’s presentation available online?

Probably why they recently have shifted all the focus to the youth in the last couple years… hardcore “laser like focus” (their own words not mine) on the youth.

Interesting. It seems when the church actually answered questions people had it was all men. I’d love to know if other women were told to pray for forgiveness for asking in the first place.

I just went to buy the audio and I couldn't find it. Is it done on audio? I have a head injury it's the only way I can understand it

Shouldn't Jesus be the author of these essays? Not 4 different levels of committees?

💛

I can see that within 10 years, the Church will finally be forced into talking openly about these subjects in General Conference and about half the Church will fall away!

The Ghost of Christmas Present explains those we overlook, their names are Ignorant and Want. The LDS Church participates. I’m glad others caught the lack of Christian responding with issues affecting our “best and brightest.” We don’t have to manipulate “crisis of faith” for others, either. Why would that be defended? We can’t heal when truth is prevented. The Brethren have never said they made mistakes and ask forgiveness. Dr. Harris does not seem concerned about the LDS claim of inspiration by The Brethren in their Stewardship claims. The Brethren can’t claim superior inspiration due to their decisions and the lies that cover it up. Dr. Harris doesn’t seem to get that each of the essays are due to covering up some violation of The Second Great Commandment. The Church allows inspiration within one’s stewardship while its policies do not uphold it. That is what TheBrethren don’t want to get out. They themselves have created non Christian policies.

I think the reason the Essays aren’t dated, is back to plausible deniability. The Church can say, that the information was always available.

How do you know, that the ‘essays’ that were given are complete and not doctored? Are there mor that haven’t been released? Who can get the truth?

hi i am from texas and i been studing with elders missionarisioues at my home and am seeing and hearing all this and am so confused

Ok let’s be clear Mormons claim revelation is directly from God. Never do they say bunch of men get together debate what they want to do, then pray just to make sure God is down with THEIR plan. That sir is taught no where.

Have you guys done anything on the Cokeville miracle?

Twice today the podcast with Matt Harris have been replaced live with LDS promotional videos of similar topic I hope you get this I hope it's not sinister I won't be surprised either way!

Where can I find the gospile topics letters

Question: Did anyone else come to the conclusion that M. Russell Ballard went out telling the membership to "...know these essays like the back of your hand" and "use this information to strengthen the faith of the members" without him really knowing what was in the essays in the first place? I remember going to some kind of CES fireside and hearing him tout how great these essays were and how we should use them to bolster the faith of the members. I rushed home from this fireside, printed out the first essay I came to (Plural Marriage in Kirtland & Nauvoo) and my shelf broke that very night...and so did my marriage to my (still) TBM and now ex-wife. Sorry, folks, but if this is what really happened (Ballard, et. al., shotgunning those essays out to the world without having read them in the first place), then it was negligent and caused me a ton of pain, anguish, divorce, anger, feelings of betrayal, etc...

1:21:39. Sounds more like religion as big business. Putting on the ‘hat’ needed in the moment. Obviously the leadership are human and have egos and are perfectly imperfect. One of the things that I heard bothered me…in the report Travis was giving. That what mattered were that the people leaving were Bishops, Stake Presidents, etc. Their church position was what carried weight, not their spiritual maturity. Also, sounded like the data was based on men, not women. Is this true??? Church positions and men?

Where can I find those LDS gospel essays please ?

Is Travis’ work available for purchase

Where can I find. These essays?

I would like to see Mormon stories delve into the history of the United States.. and connected with the Mormon history.. the time when the Mormons came into.. The History of the United States.. the United States was very much like it was in the 1960s.. Abraham Lincoln was accused of supporting free love and polyandry.. the whole period of transcendental.. of Hawthorne and Emerson and all the northern writers.. was exciting time.. Joseph Smith came up during that time.. and was a representative of his era.. I would like to see more connection between the American history.. and the history of the Mormon church.. the only thing that's close to that transcendental period of 1810 to 1860.. was the period in America from 1950 to 1980.. with the rise of new beliefs.. and a new society..

It wouldn’t kill the church to publish a list of contributing authors and a footnote ‘last edited on ……’ Might even add to trust of the content.

Love Matt Harris my favourite brainy person 👍🏻

1:16:53, why is Matt not at liberty to say. Did he sign a non-disclosure? Also this is one of the best episodes yet!

Thank you. Good grief.

"If you're happy in your ward, it shouldnt matter..." 😢😢😢 What!?!?

Where are theas letters published at.j like to read them.are that on a church approved cite? I can not find them on the church web cote

I’m impressed with the knowledge Dr. Matt Harris has I’m anxious to get his book, he is a little soft on some of the facts he relates to. By the way Ezzra Taft Benson was mentioned, to show what a guy he was. I did meet Benson in 1956 when he was visiting a ward in Berlin Germany as a Apostle. I strongly agree that the majority of the members are believers in Jesus Christ and therefore are Christians. The upper Echelons, in my eyes,also believe in Christ should or could be called Christian. Will they-be judged by God , for what they tell the members what and how to do? Of course the will be judged.🇺🇸🇩🇪

SO... Was the LDS church *NOT TRUE* and NOT God's church B E F O R E the "Essays" came out, and now AFTER the essays, LDS lnc. is now God's One And ONLY TRUE Church on earth??

Wwwwaaaaaiiittt….. this guy is STILL a Mormon? 🤦🏼‍♀️ HOW

Black men and women were never cursed. Brigham Young was racist!

Matt's description of Mormon revelation doesn't seem to be the way the average LDS understands it. It certainly isn't the manner of Joseph Smith's "revelations". Matt also mentions faith as being the fundamental to religion, but I would say that people need to be certain as to the source of that faith. I have faith in the truthfulness and soundness of thought of professionals in the sciences because that's their field of study....and they question everything in their field and don't skip over the tough questions. Religion should be no different. Questions in religion are more important than answers because questions lead us in particular directions. Some questions may lead us to the answer of "I don't know," and that's great because we need to know where the limits to knowledge are, and that can focus our attention on areas to research further. I'm not sure from the interview just how believing Matt is, but he appears to want the LDS Church to reform because it has value to him, that the LDS narrative of religion is perhaps the best one out there and that it produces enough good to make it worthwhile to be a part of it. My feeling is that if the Mormon Church did reform it's theology enough to conform to reality, then it wouldn't be the Mormon Church any longer. It could no longer claim to be the "one true religion" which has really been it's main selling point. Could it really succeed at being just a good group of Christians doing their best? The term "Latter Day Saints" implies a special time frame in history. How long can we expect the latter days to continue? This name had a lot of meaning in 1830 when there was a general expectation among Christians that Christ was returning imminently. How many people question their religion because of the accident of birth into a particular religion? It seems almost natural to be loyal to the tribe, the culture, the language, the religion that we're born into, but does that translate into our tribe, language and religion being the best in the world? How would it affect us if we learned other religious narratives? This happened to me in college and it was fascinating. But I ended up agnostic because I couldn't put all the pieces of religion in human history into one over-arching narrative. This was my condition when I moved to Utah as a 22 year old. Mormons would probably consider a 22 year old agnostic who's trying to make sense out of religion a prime target for conversion. My co-workers in Utah were both Mormon, the good, sincere kind who did their best. But the issue of race, the emphasis on bearing one's testimony rather than explaining it rationally, the literal understanding of scripture which leads to a 6 thousand year old world, a God with a physical body, a vengeful God....it all seemed just as backward as churches I grew up with. And I had a degree in biology which provides the incontrovertible evidence of a 4 billion plus year old world in which life evolved, including human life. So I naturally became a Baha'i in Utah. I do feel a special connection with Mormons. Why else would I spend over 3 hours watching this interview? I actually enjoyed it and learned from it. I can't imagine what it's like being Matt and trying to hold on to the religion and community I love while also being committed to truth, honesty and openness. And all the while living in a larger culture torn by conspiracy theories, denial of science and experts, and racism. A crazy time to live....but interesting.

It's either black or white the church continually tries to turn it grey, it does not work. It's up to the individual to decide if grey is good enough.