Legendary Mormon Whistleblowers w/ John Larsen | Ep. 1804

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Since the beginning of the Church, there have been former members who turn whistle-blower and have written exposés. In this episode we will do a review of the most impactful of these through history.
Join The Nuance Hug Foundation Launch Party on September 9th!
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Episode Show Notes: www.mormonstories.org/podcast...
Chapters
00:17:20 Mormonism Unvailed by E. D. Howe
00:30:40 John C. Bennett book “The History of the Saints”
00:44:10 Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith by His Progenitors by Lucy Mack Smith - read the earliest edition, there are three versions of this
00:49:54 Female Life Among the Mormons by C. H. Clarke
00:53:20 Expose of Polygamy in Utah by Fanny Stenhouse
00:57:45 Wife No. 19 by Ann Eliza Young
01:05:24 Mormonism Unveiled by John D. Lee 1877
01:12:22 Brigham Young’s Destroying Angel by Bill Hickman
01:17:15 No Man Knows My History by Fawn McKay Brodie
01:26:05 Mountain Meadows Massacre by Juanita Brooks
01:35:35 Mormonism Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner
01:41:18 Published in 1985 Studies of the Book of Mormon by B. H. Roberts
01:47:53 The Mormon Hierarchy by D. Michael Quinn
01:57:40 Grant Palmer’s book “An Insider's View of Mormon Origins”
02:02:50 Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman
02:08:08 Jeremy Runnells CES Letter
02:14:20 Carah Burrell Nuancehoe Non-Profit - NuanceHug Foundation
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Опубликовано:

31 авг 2023

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Комментарии : 156

@kaceyracer7735 10 месяцев назад

Let’s move to calling these books “pro-truth” rather than “anti-Mormon.” It’s important to control the dialogue when considering historical truth. Truth isn’t “anti,” it’s just facts

@jyt74 7 месяцев назад

Agreed. Until somebody decrees what you say "fake truth" or something, and there we go again...

@werwurm 6 месяцев назад

It will likely just become a euphemism like "pro-life" is a euphemism for "anti-women".

@healinspaces4u Месяц назад

Great point!

@wayward_lamanite 10 месяцев назад

As a native person here in Oregon, many of us because of grave robbers tend to shredd outfits and cut necklaces before we Bury our people because they do not deserve as grave robbers to wear or regalia. Thank you for bringing this up because it was one of my big shelf items. And that are people across the United States. We're having their peaceful graves robbed.

@clever-nobody 10 месяцев назад

Dang, I already have quite a long "must read" list ! It seems like every time I listen to John Larsen I have to add on.

@nadinehansen9241 10 месяцев назад

I saw the version of the JS biography at my MIL'S house and was shocked to read the tree of life dream in it. I would be even more shocked to know that either of my parents-in-law ever read it.

@totonow6955 10 месяцев назад

I'm not a Mormon but I have spent time in Navuu. It is an economically desolate place but they do have the historic jail. I now have a pictire in my mind of Joseph Smith running around there dressed like Napolean with serveral women on his arm. Oh, I mean spiritual wives on his arm.

@lauraann1684 10 месяцев назад

I always tune in for John L and Cara.

@CarahBurrell 10 месяцев назад

Whooo❤❤❤

@CatskillsGrrl 10 месяцев назад

Same

@bradley244ify 10 месяцев назад

I don’t know if you have covered a question I have ? How does the interest into genealogy exhibit by the church relate to issues you may understand which I do not? I have used the free software and enjoyed it but am wondering if I am missing something in terms of how this might affect myself or others.

@letahamilton 10 месяцев назад

I had to stop & go watch John’s Sunday service in Corvallis. I’m from Eugene (now living in Seattle) & my sister lives in Monroe outside of Corvallis. I’m a practicing UU here in Seattle for all the reasons John mentioned in this episode. I’m an atheist UU. I loved your UU talk, John! Loved it so much! You are awesome & listening to the talk gave me a boost of positivity for sure. I am so happy to have this podcast in my orbit. You are awesome humans. So much gratitude

@JohnLarsen1 10 месяцев назад

That is so kind

@pererau 10 месяцев назад

How do you find the talk?

@jewelgazer 10 месяцев назад

What are UU’s? I’m not up to snuff!

@letahamilton 10 месяцев назад

@@jewelgazer Unitarian Universalist. It’s a non-Christ-centered denomination…Like church without the Bible or dogma. Basically, they have 8 core principles (or 7 depending on which church you go to) that draw on all major world religions & philosophies. Take care of the earth. We are an interconnected web. That kind of thing. I like it because it’s a place I can take my kids where they can learn about world religions in general. They get amazing sex education through the Our Whole Lives program, which is a healthy sexuality & basic holistic sex education curriculum that the UUs have developed. All my kids have been through that program. It’s a spiritual home where my kids can say they have a “church” when their Christian friends invite them to their mega churches. It’s the most non churchy church, but I love it. They have all kinds of community service opportunities for me & my kids. I can have a community of people that I love. My kids are around people of all generations, backgrounds & walks of life. It’s just a really good place for me to go & find community, but I can still be an atheist because all the Bible mythology stuff is hogwash. But I can have a place to calm down & take a breath every week. I love it.

@jewelgazer 10 месяцев назад

@@letahamilton Thanks for sharing all of that because I knew nothing, but hey, not anymore! :)

@ritaconley9544 10 месяцев назад

So great to see John and Kara on the show again. ❤

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

They appear monthly.

@ritaconley9544 10 месяцев назад

Great!!!!!

@andreadiamond7115 10 месяцев назад

John and Carah are on monthly. ❤️

@keile513 10 месяцев назад

WHAT! Yessss! I caught a live broadcast with my 3 favorites!! 🎉🎉🎉

@wolfie_plays6085 10 месяцев назад

UU’s are a really welcome, safe place for people leaving high control religions- they are able to hold a big tent! I say that as an ordained person in a mainline church (an affirming and big tent group). I’m glad you found support, community and home with the Unitarians!

@bodytrainer1crane730 10 месяцев назад

I loved this format. Thank you John Larsen. I am looking forward to reading many of these books. ❤️❤️❤️⭐⭐⭐

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

So glad!

@patricianoel7782 10 месяцев назад

Sadly the Tanners book on Amazon is $133. Feeling pretty cocky as I own and have studied 8 of the 18 books. So many books, so little time”. Thank you friends for sharing these older books about this church’s history. PS. I’m 67 and found the truth 2 years ago, I’m out. 🎉 Sadly, the CESLetter is not available on Amazon 😮

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

cesletter.org

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

Tanner book should be free at UTLM.

@patricianoel7782 10 месяцев назад

@@mormonstories I bought it on that site. I was just giving an fyi. Thanks.

@freedomscry1 10 месяцев назад

@@mormonstorieswhat is that?

@sharkofjoy 8 месяцев назад

Maybe the CES letter SHOULD be on Amazon as a self-published book!

@MouseQueso 10 месяцев назад

Up vote for me getting a beer with John Larsen next time im in Portland

@keile513 10 месяцев назад

Me too!!

@MrsSoapAndClay 10 месяцев назад

I co-sign this. ❤

@JohnLarsen1 10 месяцев назад

yum

@DeathValleyDazed 10 месяцев назад

Loving this review of Mormon history, learned some details and reminded of even more. Thanks crew!

@TreasureMapsGenealogy 10 месяцев назад

I believe you can fly, Carah. Heck, you already are. 😊

@CarahBurrell 10 месяцев назад

🥰🥰

@fredlarge8209 10 месяцев назад

My favorite trio!!!!!

@rockytreadway 10 месяцев назад

Great episode as always with this combination of hosts. ❤❤

@ArtsyTartsy0 10 месяцев назад

Love y'all still!!! Congrats Carah! Please keep up your wonderful work John and John and hello to Margie (miss her!)

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

Thank you! Will do!

@CarahBurrell 10 месяцев назад

❤❤❤

@ihave7631 10 месяцев назад

Fascinating statement “the average LDS member is no more racist bigoted or sexist than any other American”. That’s a rather great statement about Americans as a whole.

@dianamoss159 10 месяцев назад

I’m not so sure about that. I know lots of older LDS who are definitely racists. I never told my parents that I was dating a black man for 3 years because I know they would be very much against it.

@harlanlang6556 10 месяцев назад

It's probably a true statement. The problem is why aren't the LDS noticeably better then the average American because of their "true" beliefs and divine guidance? The purpose of religion should be to make people better than they otherwise would be.

@atphoenix2020 10 месяцев назад

Good to see John Larsen and Carah Burrell with you❤

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

They appear on the show monthly!

@letahamilton 10 месяцев назад

So much time for this trio

@lj9524 10 месяцев назад

Excellent, enlightening!!!! Thank you all❤️❤️🙏🙏

@harlanlang6556 10 месяцев назад

Larsen sounds like his inner Amish is pushing him to go back to the land! I'm doing the same in California. There's something spiritual about being in the garden where all the plants I grew from seed, even the tomatoes. I enjoy learning the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. There, I wrote it all out. It may not be the true church, but it has the longest name. I'm still wondering how long "Latter Day" lasts. Concerning the Unitarian Church, I went to a meeting at the Unitarian Church in Salt Lake City back in 1961 and they served alcoholic drinks during the social part. I had never seen that in any church, but my feeling was that they wanted to show how un-Mormon they were. But they do promote a set of good principles and I think they have attempted to do what ex-Mormons are trying to do: to create community without spiritual beliefs.

@pulserogers 10 месяцев назад

The parallel to Scientology is amazing.

@maddexq9107 10 месяцев назад

John LARSEN’S Mormon Expressions IS THE BEST Postmo content out there. Bar None.

@jonipitcher7185 10 месяцев назад

I love both of you Johns ❤

@JohnLarsen1 10 месяцев назад

I love you too

@ron3537 10 месяцев назад

Thanks again for another good one. Taking suggestions? A podcast with more details about F Enzio Busche would be interesting.

@yu12si7 10 месяцев назад

thank you, thank you, Thank You!!!

@function0077 10 месяцев назад

Who had more of an incentive to lie? Joseph Smith or his neighbors. I would argue that Joseph Smith had more of an incentive to lie, because what did his neighbors have to gain from lying about their former neighbor Joseph Smith?

@kevinm9246 10 месяцев назад

Just getting started here. I hope Lucy Harris and her "irascible temper" gets an honorable mention, even though she didnt write an expose..

@chuddieDs 10 месяцев назад

Smart smart smart smart smart

@kevinm9246 10 месяцев назад

Lol. She is a hero of mine. She probably should have a statue somewhere. She made Joe get extra creative. @@chuddieDs

@young0padowon 10 месяцев назад

I love all of you, but I never miss a Cara and John Larsen episode. I am listening while doing practice for my tattoo apprenticeship, and I think I may wear a tank top to visit my family this weekend. Somehow, the tank top is scarier than my tattoos and piercings lol! Thanks for deconstructing the church in this way. It is incredibly comforting and normalizing. I love talking shit on JS 😂 thanks guys.

@danieljohncarey7917 10 месяцев назад

John Larsen, thank you for explaining the grave digger - and so much other - stuff. So many people don't know. You are always good about explaining things.

@StephRivera 10 месяцев назад

I like hearing about all these resources, because I need to read more. So happy Sandra tanners book is on PDF.

@TheNightriff 10 месяцев назад

Anyone have a list for all the books? Also requesting a specific link to the Lucy Mack Smith book JL was saying to read. Thanks for all the work you guys do!

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

www.mormonstories.org/podcast/legendary-whistleblowers-w-john-larsen/

@karenallen7064 10 месяцев назад

Thank you for the link!!!

@cherylwilson8519 10 месяцев назад

I just finished Fanny Stenhouse’s book! It was amazing!! Everyone should read it, she was really there, which makes it even more exciting. So many interesting and important observations from her about the men involved in Polygamy, etc

@bartrindlisbacher7726 10 месяцев назад

Thanks for a great episode! Oh, and @nuancehoe is so damn cute! 🔥

@CarahBurrell 10 месяцев назад

STAAAAHHHHP 🤗

@jaylarsen67 10 месяцев назад

John L you go to back of the class for not knowing the answer to John D's question about Fawn Brody's reward.😂

@andreadiamond7115 10 месяцев назад

The Jeremy Runnells interview is my #1 favorite of all MS.

@delbert3539 10 месяцев назад

I have a clarity from listening to some of those who left the church due to what they found in the early history and further digging. I do not like those who bad mouth the people and those who laugh while tearing the church down. It’s a serious matter that affects people in a terrible why.

@pererau 10 месяцев назад

You process your trauma in your way and let others process their trauma in their way.

@ArtsyTartsy0 10 месяцев назад

I absolutely believe that exMormons have EVERY right to speak about this cult and group any way they see fit! As much hurt and harm as they have been put through by them/it gives them this right!!!!

@jewelgazer 10 месяцев назад

Hey, I totally understand what you are saying - laughing/mocking people who disagree with you is not helpful in any way. I’m glad you shared your opinion!! ❤

@mattpurvis7532 10 месяцев назад

I agree - John Larsen episodes are the best MS episodes. I really miss Mormon Expression podcast.

@realreikirealliferealspiri9637 10 месяцев назад

Where is the link for John Larsen’s UU talk? I would love to listen. thanks!

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bJ5BYi9Wimg.html

@jasonkramsey 10 месяцев назад

Who edited out the clip where I assume there was doggy drama?? That was probably a highlight!

@TheSaintelias 10 месяцев назад

Is there a list of all these books? Am I missing it in the description or show nots? I was chilling and didnt write down as you talked.

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

www.mormonstories.org/podcast/legendary-whistleblowers-w-john-larsen/

@sharkofjoy 8 месяцев назад

I can't find this video of John Larsen shown at 6:02. I even went to the Unitarian universalist fellowship of Corvallis page and I don't see it!

@sharkofjoy 8 месяцев назад

just noticed it is "unlisted", but can be found in the show notes! Wonder why it is unlisted?

@Moksha-Raver 10 месяцев назад

I wish we could find the show notes links that John always mentions in the box above, but that is usually just talk.

@sharkofjoy 8 месяцев назад

There's a link (named "show notes") to a document with the show notes in the video description, and it's linked in several other comments in this video?

@quacks2much 10 месяцев назад

As an atheist, I found Universalists treated me with what I call mild to moderate hostility. I was surprised because Universalists supposedly welcome atheists. Universalists remind me of George Orwell's "Animal Farm": "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than other animals."

@ETBlair 10 месяцев назад

It’s a great read.

@rwsd1025 10 месяцев назад

Can someone post a list of the books John mentioned?

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

It's all here @rwsd1025: www.mormonstories.org/podcast/legendary-whistleblowers-w-john-larsen/

@jaylarsen67 10 месяцев назад

I didn't take notes. Please publish your list of 18 Whistleblower books and the authors. Thanks.

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

www.mormonstories.org/podcast/legendary-whistleblowers-w-john-larsen/

@taylorcampbell4067 10 месяцев назад

Could I get a written list of these book names and authors for reference?

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

www.mormonstories.org/podcast/legendary-whistleblowers-w-john-larsen/

@workhard1449 10 месяцев назад

Hey guys, So sorry to do this, but who was the content producer who was doing scandalous readings of Fanny Stenhouse's book (Brother Dehlin mentioned her)? Thank you in advance.❤

@workhard1449 10 месяцев назад

Never mind. I found it!

@salsusmagnsu 10 месяцев назад

The door opening in the background, spooky.

@JohnLarsen1 10 месяцев назад

That was my dog, Moses H. Christ Jr.

@salsusmagnsu 10 месяцев назад

@@JohnLarsen1 haha, I figured since I saw him roaming around in the background. Love the name!

@natenelson9102 10 месяцев назад

I think some people who are well-informed intelligent, activist and who choose to continue their membership do so because they redefine their relationship with the church - where the value of the church no longer rooted in truth claims, but in their opportunities for self discovery, community, service, and transcendence. Let's not malign those who choose to stay

@JohnLarsen1 10 месяцев назад

I'm not sure what you are responding to. Where in the recording did we malign those who choose to stay?

@natenelson9102 10 месяцев назад

@@JohnLarsen1 oh no, this wasn't directed to the episode, infact I'm joining the voices of this episode in supporting those good people who try to make it work. I was directing that to viewers and members of the post Mormon community who can get zealous in their anti-mormon stance to actually be doing harm and not good. Sorry if I made it sound like I was criticizing you

@natenelson9102 10 месяцев назад

@@JohnLarsen1 I made that comment right after I listened to the part where John D was discussing his recent interview with Dan McClellan, and wanted to join in that rhetoric

@karibear86 10 месяцев назад

John Larsen is amazing! He is very passionate about what he believes in.

@johnrandolph6121 10 месяцев назад

Hi. I'm a regular viewer of your channel and would consider myself a big fan. I've made many comments in the past. However, yesterday I made a comment, the first ever that took issue with a point made in this video. It was respectful and seemingly pretty anodyne yet the comment was removed. I would say I generally agree with the things on this channel 99% of the time, but is it okay to offer dissent as well? It's your channel so you get to make the rules, but I'm curious if that's allowed. Thanks for all your videos. I admire your work.

@MsCaterific 10 месяцев назад

💓

@Blue-Mondays 9 месяцев назад

Has John Larson authored any books?

@anonymousone9699 10 месяцев назад

Wait, Carrah is back at MS?

@CarahBurrell 10 месяцев назад

I've been back on monlthy for all the John Larsen eps since I left!

@Cosmickitten2012 10 месяцев назад

So it's hard for mormons to break away and or to have a discussion with them. They are ingrained from birth. At 3 years old the cute little darlings are locking their fingers together and asking Bezus to Bess them. They are obedient and do as they are told. Take that up to the teen years where the big get away, the escape, is going on a mission for 2 years. Then off to college. There is very little room for escape. No wiggle room. I was a mormon, my very best friend of almost 40 years is so ingrained that she literally hears god talking to her and giving her messages of wisdom. She is tolerated by the church, because as you know only men talk to god, because she comes from the very largest mormon clans in Arizona. All her kids are rocket scientist, literally

@phoenixfireclusterbomb 8 месяцев назад

Ya! Know, as Americans we’ve been brainwashed and indoctrinated within our public schools, the tell-a-vision, radio, etc… Freemasons and the like have controlled our nation from the beginning. Its scary to consider just how much we’ve been lied too and our true history hidden and rewritten. We truly know nothing. If it wasn’t for The Holy Spirt I wouldn’t even believe who Jesus said he was. Thats the only truth that I can stand on. Everything from science, language, history and etc… has all been manipulated. Its astounding to me. Definitely a difficult box to jump out of but I want truth. Im glad I live in a time when our true history is being revealed with receipts. The great delusion is no joke.

@gazelam1973 Месяц назад

You guys really took a deep dive into Moron origins. I heard you reference a few different books and authors. One you didn't reference, but I think is a Mormon History masterpiece is D. Michael Quinn The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power

@Cocoon68 10 месяцев назад

And think about this.. if they really thought that Alvin was dug up the evidence would be there! Maybe they wanted to get his body and take it to the hill so Joseph Smith could get those plates! 😂 remember that Alvin was the one designated to go with him by the Angel

@MKConnecticut 10 месяцев назад

Congrats Kara👏🏼👏🏼

@CarahBurrell 10 месяцев назад

❤❤❤

@Miss.sassycassy 10 месяцев назад

Hi native here… please stop saying Indian we aren’t from India.

@mormonstories 10 месяцев назад

Who said Indian?

@Miss.sassycassy 10 месяцев назад

@@mormonstories John Larson did.. not angry just a reminder that the term is off putting for many even though it’s still taught. We know better we do better🙂. Thanks for doing this podcast it’s nice to understand what my biological father believes without the indoctrination of him explaining.

@greenfairy4894 10 месяцев назад

My era always said Indians. I mean no disrespect though. I don’t like saying Native American because I believe you were and are native to the lands way before America came into the picture causing harm. I personally wouldn’t want “ others”to decide. I just can’t say it. I’ve also been trying to remember to use indigenous. I use indigenous when studying my own ancestors. Which is preferred then, native or indigenous?

@Miss.sassycassy 10 месяцев назад

@@greenfairy4894 I prefer to be called Indigenous but Native American is a safe term. Indian is a government term still and many natives use it kind of like the n word same with the word savage, reclaiming it from derogatory to be powerful but like the n word it’s better if non natives don’t use it.. Indian was used because the first colonizers thought this was India and “merciless Indian savages” was used to dehumanize and make people feel better about the things they were doing to “kill the Indian and save the man”.. it’s sticky and education for all is how we heal and move forward with harmony. Nai:wen(thank you in Mohawk, so don’t type without coffee) for asking for advice with so much love and respect.🖤🖤

@greenfairy4894 10 месяцев назад

@@Miss.sassycassy TY!!! I will forever be mindful. I appreciate you! 💛

@jeffwilson4693 10 месяцев назад

When Gods spirit came to me to know me and awaken me to a remembrance of him, and to show me in vision that the LDS Missionaries are his servants, he didn't point out to me the Missionaries, the Church, or the members faults. His spirit only showed me that it is his Church. Come to think of it, he didn't point out my own faults to me either. So my question to the people in the video is, when did the LDS Church cease to be Gods Church. And by whose authority is that determination made? And lastly, how do you leave yourself for not being perfect?

@JohnLarsen1 10 месяцев назад

How do you know it was God's spirit?

@jeffwilson4693 10 месяцев назад

@@JohnLarsen1"How do you know it was God's spirit?" I recognized and remembered his spirit.

@ETBlair 10 месяцев назад

Joseph Smith ran off with Emma without her father’s permission. Is that the behavior of an honest man? Emma could have done better than a lying, cheating spouse.

@babymason05 10 месяцев назад

They are Mormons. Period. I dont care what they wanna be called. 😂

@CatskillsGrrl 10 месяцев назад

I loved Mike Quinn.

@moniquedelaney7958 10 месяцев назад

9: «All the good things » I do in my atheist community , please remember 😊

@kurtbradwill 10 месяцев назад

Carah is back?!?

@CarahBurrell 10 месяцев назад

I have been on every month with John Larsen since I left!

@TrevorThatBandanaGuy 10 месяцев назад

So I'd like to add a little push back to John Larson and his father. I understand that John's trying to be respectful towards. But here's the pushback, nobody is saying that Mormons don't believe in Jesus. That would be a straw man

@phoenixfireclusterbomb 8 месяцев назад

Mormonism, told my Grandparents that its freemasonic, she agreed but said, it was the good type. I don’t think any religion or institutions are good. They seem to always end up with someone wanting to use it for getting rich.

@tararose5136 9 месяцев назад

Just funny that you can respect yur dads wishes while also knowing why nelsons belief is bs

@phoenixa7789 10 месяцев назад

You lost me at "my trans kids." Why do ex-Mormons always go way to the left?

@greenfairy4894 10 месяцев назад

They all don’t! I didn’t. With that said, I’m not sure why that would bother you. Not everything is political. It’s a piece of his life. You probably need to check yourself on this kind of judgment. If it is part of his life experience and is a man who loves his children unconditionally and is proud of them. Too many LDS disown their children. I’m sure it’s his way of showing acceptance, love regardless of societies judgmental ways. He isn’t hiding it which is very common in the church. I say good on him!

@phoenixa7789 10 месяцев назад

@@greenfairy4894 Thanks for the lengthy morality lesson 😒

@JohnLarsen1 9 месяцев назад

If you think ex-Mormons always align with the left, wait until you read Jesus' teaching. Talk about a leftist.

@LUCACAMPBELL-ny4qt 10 месяцев назад

Your recounting of JS and LDS history is just as slippery with half truth's as you say JS is, for example, You led your listeners to believe that JS made up stories about the BoM before he even got the plates to know the information in the stories, yet you fail to mention that JS was not allowed to take the plates at first but was given visions of the early inhabitants which is why he was able to tell his family about what he saw. Also, you led your listeners to assume that LDS members were ignorant about polygamy and all the complexities that go with it. These are the same people who lived through it, they know! They don't broadcast it. Trafficking? really? It was their testimony that led them on their journey, something you no longer have if you ever had one. You guys are so removed from the LDS church now that you have forgotten the basic stuff and you can no longer relate and comment in a meaningful way to LDS people. There was a need for the Danites because of the extermination order. Again you forget to mention that the Fancher party massacre was during the US Gov. extermination order (Not the Missouri one i.e. Ext 44), the order was given while they lived in Utah and was the catalyst for the Utah Mormon War between 1857 and 1858 . There was an army marching to Utah to kill every LDS man, woman and child, the LDS members were at war with the US. The only reason why it had a peaceful ending was because of a non-Mormon Senator who sailed to San Francisco and went overland to meet the army and convince them not to carry out their orders. Your wrong about Quinn's closet homosexuality - they knew. Palmers "spiritual eyes" argument can easily be debunked. The intent of the CES letter is a lie, that is the most important part, it starts as a lie.

@JohnLarsen1 10 месяцев назад

You accuse us of half truths and then you drop things like this: "There was an army marching to Utah to kill every LDS man, woman and child, the LDS members were at war with the US." No, that isn't true at all. Prove me wrong. What is your source?

@greenfairy4894 10 месяцев назад

Oh boy are you in the dark regarding the very wealthy polygamist clans, the abuse of women, children and the trafficking! You can’t change the facts because you choose to wear rose colored glasses and have not opened up to hear truth. Live a lie but know you have been made aware. I hear ignorance is bliss!

@sheliabryant3997 10 месяцев назад

1 Sept. 2023: HOWDY! Not sure my comments are getting thro - YT?/ TMob?/Goog. ?) but am always happy to see you three together. Watched RFM's referenced by JD; SURGICAL!! 💕. Loving this one, as always. And you each look to be in the great health that comes of Peaceableness. 🌈 Thanks for sharing