but im gonna mess some kids up if they over come back ORIGINAL VIDEO ► • The Next Major RTS Wil... WATCH LIVE ► / atrioc TWITTER ► / atrioc DISCORD ► / discord REDDIT ► / atrioc Edited by Zinjo | / notzinjo #atrioc #stream #gaming
The real reason Atrioc was good at age of empires was because he lived through the time periods of all those civilizations so he has first hand knowledge that gives him an advantage
@@QuanLe-xy7uh rookie mistake. Charlie only was popular because the gizzard went around telling people they get a free RTX3090 if they become friends with him. Thus why he got so popular
To the people thinking Atrioc misspoke at 0:04 and meant to say he "grew up" with RTS games, you're mistaken. He meant exactly what he said - he really is the one who "came up" with RTS games. 4000 years ago in ancient China, Atrioc invented the first strategy game in history, WeiQi (also known as Chinese Go), while conversing with Sun Tzu.
That’s actually a common misconception. You see big A was actually the real Sun Tzu but due to prejudice against non-Chinese during that era, he used a random old man as a stand in and used him to write the art of war.
Definitely a lack of popularity right now, but some really great games and mods for old games. Gates of hell is definitely my favorite new RTS in recent years. And games with mind blowing mods: empire at war, Men of War AS2, and XCOM 2 (although it’s more turn based)
id recommend Dawn Of War 1 i love it so much. if you check it out i could not recommend the master collection enough, the campaigns and variety of the races are unmatched
I think a part of the issue is the fact that RTS games or any strategy games really are very scarce on consoles, so there are missing out on a huge part of the market
But league, the largest game in the world, is also not available on console (yes it was recently brought to mobile but was the biggest game long before that). Some might argue that MOBAs are in some sense “RTS” games since you are forced to apply macro-level strategy in real time
@@Sekrai macro refers to the ability to do a lot of different things at once. In StarCraft that generally refers to base building and unit production. Micro refers to focusing on a specific task. In StarCraft that generally refers to focusing on your units and trying to get more value out of them by controlling them well. In other words, there really isn't macro in MOBAs.
Starcraft 2 had the best non linear story missions as well that gave different awards so you could choose different paths throughout your playthrough. Was pretty pog
5:06 -> 6:30 Is a really important point that I first heard about in an article titled "96%-ile isn't that good" More generally sustained practice + actually analysing your errors is a shockingly effective strategy because most people don't even try to get better at learning. Everyone's heard "work smarter not harder" but most people don't even try to figure out how to wrok smarter.
When you talked about the homebase upgrades, I instantly thought of Empires of the Undergrowth. Highly suggest that game. RTS game based on ants. Very fun. Would love to watch a video or series of you playing through the campaign.
Where your theory falls flat is games like overwatch where in theory you can blame your team for the loss but you still want to jump out of an airplane without a parachute after a loss
As someone who’s been grinding cooking skills for the past three years, and was a Diamond-platinum league player, I’d say your analogy is pretty accurate. Except I started from virtually no cooking knowledge, and there is a base knowledge that a lot of people who grew up cooking already had (sorry to the roommate who’s non-stick skillet I scratched with a fork). After a few months of learning the lingo and getting a feel for the basics, it was really easy to become great at cooking. Mostly been grinding J Kenji Lopez Alt videos and replicating his techniques.
12:00 this is so funny, because can you imagine a lobby where there's just this 1 juggernaut bot in disguise going around specifically targeting people that are at a 1 or 2 win streak in a battle royale and loses at the end to some shitter at -2 win streak lmao
A comment on Atrioc's theory about the diffusion of blame and 1v1/RTS games feeling worse to lose at. I'm not sure if I'm an outlier, but I actually feel the opposite. I feel much, much worse when I lose team games rather than 1v1s because of this very reason. It's much easier for me to accept a loss when I know 100% it is my fault, it's also much easier to identify what could've been wrong during your play. Teammates are stressful. It's hard for me to accept losses when it feels like there's not much more you could've done and that you were dealt a bad hand in matchmaking. Worrying about who is at fault, and the inevitable frustration following, distracts you from finding out what you can improve on and hinders your progress - in my case, at least.
Since its hard to accept that loss, you're also more likely to try to play again since you feel like you shoulda won. Theres a reason league became so popular even when its so frustrating
You must be an outlier. Whether it's SC2 or shooters, based on how often I see people complain about hacks/bad teammates/timing/imba etc it looks like a large proportion of people in multiplayer are in denial about their own lack of skill or their mistakes. I think it's due in part to us fancying ourselves great players and believing in it. So when you face a situation that proves otherwise - you don't wanna lose that self image and you will blame anything other than yourself.
Yeah but your mindset is that you want to learn and improve. That's what you find fun, so taking the blame for a loss is actually rewarding. Most casual players just want to have fun and win. It feels bad to take the blame for a loss when you never had any intention of learning from it because you don't care about getting better.
Grinding to learn Mum's recipes because I know I want to move out of the family home, try to survive the outside world and OFC impress girls back in the day (yes it worked) You're abso right about grinding professions in real life (getting a job). Working 20+ years in Hospitality starting in a lowly position, working your way up into Managerial position within 5 years? Oh yes. Not to mention all Back of House depts. Then there's when you get bored of working in Hospitality for so long that you branch out into Sales ledger, Credit Control, Security and now? Something different again. Life IS about grinding. You choose how good you want to get at it.
It's crazy to me that Warcraft 1-3 +The frozen throne expansion isn't recognized more. These games set the stage for WoW. They also had some hardcore ranked competition and great custom games that still get recreated in starcraft 1 & 2. If I was a pc gamer I would still play War3 lol. They had a great campaign on top of everything as well! Cutscenes, voice, everything! Damn the nostalgia may make me biased lmao.
Great video, I really agree with the part where you say MOBAs got big because you can blame your team. For me in RTS games, I like 2v2 games with my friends. Or in games like Men of War Assault Squad 2 I find it fun to have a 3v3 AI match with me as a 4th player on one of the teams, so I can just move around a few units and focus on micro (ik it's not hard, it's just fun). For me it isn't as much about blaming the team as it is reducing your pressure to preform well. If you are in a R6 Siege ladder match, you don't have to worry about killing all 5 enemies, only your share. Then when you over-preform, it feels great. When you under-preform, your teammates can pick up the slack.
I play an rts called planetary annihilations: titans. In it I have over 100 hours but I have never played on a multiplayer game. It has a great AI and a mode called galactic war where you go from planet to planet and get progressively stronger with unique upgrades to your units and you might want to specialize on a certain type of unit instead of using all of them since each unit type takes up a slot.
FINALLY a chance to share one of my favorite games. Dawn Of War 1. it has a stunning rpg campaign with amazing stories and different playable races. Id recommend buying the Dawn of War master collection to get the full experience
Even before I watched this video, one thing that I'm 100% sure is that whatever RTS Frost Giant releases, its gonna be a team game. Because as you said, as long as you can blame your teammates, everything is fine.
I really wish I could find the article talking about it, but I tend to agree with it from my experience that a lot gamers tend to grind various things in their life because they love that accomplishment of getting better and 'getting to the next level'.
That’s because you won’t give yourself the chance to since you come into it already with a negative mindset, I’m the same way. There’s something out there some game, some skill or some trade that you could be very talented at you just have to find out what it is
Honestly it's fine just be a cool person, the whole grindset becomes a toxic ideology when one person tries to get another to adopt it, its really only good for helping a person whos already intrinsically motivated to put thoughts to action
Would love to see a resurgence back towards RTS on the grand scale of Esports. Started watching during the sc2 beta days having played mainly customs on BW. (Anyone remember EVOLVES?) My first brush with esports was the early days with halo 2 and MLG back when we watched montages in 240p. Still have my old halo montage i think uploaded on this channel. It's so compressed to hell wish i still had the original, used to record on a dvd recorder which caused massive input lag. Had to learn how to get gud around it. But yea sc2 and RTS lol where was I? It would bs really awesome to see Frost Giant put out something special that drives ppl back to RTS genre.
I sadly don't see it happening but I really wish. SC2 in it's glory days was just amazing. I remember the first day on each big tournament felt like christmas morning, it was so exciting Not sure how the genre died, but right now it is a catch 22 situation. The best potential chance to make rts successfull again is if a big developer with a large budget makes a great rts, but that won't happen because it's too risky of an investment. Also the lack of console and monitizing viability is a big determinant for larger devs not wanting to risk making an rts game.
Amen to needing a solid campaign. I'm an RTS player and like 99 percent of my time is spent against the computer on campaign. This is why Total War is still as popular as it is. Because there's a a wide open map of AI factions and the core game is about expanding your empire against their factions. The other thing that I think is important about Total War vs more classic RTS is Total War is turn based on the campaign map with relatively short 5/10 minute battles with maybe a bigger battle going up to 20 or 30 minutes. This makes the game much more viable to play for shorter sessions like an hour or two. Compare that to something like Homeworld where it's continuous real time action all the way through. This makes a game like Homeworld much more difficult to play in shorter time chunks, an individual level has no real stopping points and could go for an hour or two. Sure you can save and come back but do you want to load in in the middle of a level? Will you remember what you were doing? RTS players are older now. We have jobs, some have families. They HAVE to be easier to put down and pick up now.
If total war commited a bit more to multiplayer they could probably pull it off rather well. Warhammer 2 had a pretty healthy MP playerbase even though it was getting like 3 balance patches per year and pretty much nothing else.
@@Guaccc I believe it but I wouldn't know. I guess it just doesn't interest me because I go to RTS to get away for awhile. Sounds like you had fun with MP though which is great.
Dune 2: The Building of a Dynasty from Westwood was my first RTS experience. Warcraft and C&C after that, but I poured so many hours into D2. I was lucky enough to have the cd-rom version with voice and the great music.
I didn’t know dune had ever been adapted in video game format before. I know there is a newer game called dune: spice wars and I thought that was the first time dune had ever been made into a game
@@jeremyroberts8822 Virgin interactive got rights to adapt the David Lynch movie, they had cryo interactive working on a adventure type game. Virgin intended cancel it but no one told cryo so they finished it while Virgin had Westwood working on a rts type game inspired by herzog zwei. That's why the rts was Dune 2. Later on they made Dune 2000 which was like an update to Dune 2 and had fmvs with proper actors. They also made Emperor battle for Dune which was like an even bigger scope remake of the Dune rts. There was also another adventure game called Frank Herbert's Dune made after virgin's rights lapsed but it's not very good.
I think a big issue is concepts. Implementing an RTS style on different settings would be awesome, like how lotr got one. That kinda stuff would bring people in for the franchise name and allows for exciting stuff
Really great vid, nice combination of interesting takes, marketing and humor within the context of games and e-sports. This felt like Atrioc essence and it made me subscribe! Thanks for making it!
I fully agree with the displacement of blame theory. It happened to me when I transitioned from SC2 to Dota 2. I still go back and play SC2 against the AI to fiddle with builds and mechanics because I find a lot of enjoyment in the mechanical experience, but I don't really play ladder anymore.
Brood War was GOAT'd. Learning the proper way to make complex custom maps was a journey for teenage me. Interesting that Atrioc made a popular AoE custom map but turned up his nose at Starcraft customs. Starcraft 2 actually almost botched custom maps with the UI and integration... at launch it was really bad... (no lobbies so you had to just guess which maps had people queuing for them, no host to kick obvious bad actors, a dozen versions of a map each with their own queue, very strict content rules) but they did bring it back, mostly. Salute from one map maker to another, in any case.
At 8:52 you mention how RTS games don't have upgrades in story mode, One that I play with my friend is They are Billions and it doesn't have a multiplayer its singleplayer or story mode and in story mode you can upgrade your troops to give them buffs or have more starting troops. Great game, want to die everytime I play it because of the end horde but it is very fun.
Gonna shout out Dark crusade in warhammer dawn of war, because it has exactly what Atrioc is talking about in terms of the rpg element between missions. its why its one of my favourite RTS of all time
The Total war titles do the campaigns right, with the battles being RTS, sadly there it's the opposite issue of the Multiplayer getting barely any support so the campaing players barely ever even touch it.
I'm old enough to remember when RTS was the king of pc gaming and competitive esports in general. I miss those times even though I was always pretty crap at RTS.
As someone who has played countless hours of all kinds of RTS the problem for me is my region, being in australla you don't find very many compatible lobbies in most cases the ping difference is a big reason I don't play online, 2nd reason is sometimes for example in the new AOE I was trying to improve by understanding my errors and watching pro league problem is I was somehow not improving and it confused me and led to me getting wiped out by the current "meta".
Apart from being able to blame other people and rng/imba etc, I can think of two other reasons why people stay away from 1v1 multiplayer. 1. I don't know if I'm alone in this but 1v1 is socially intimidating. It's one thing when you're doing 1v1 aimfights in csgo on a full server but what if you're alone, like in an rts match. It's a much more intimate experience and can be a little uncomfortable (anyone else feels that way?) As a kid playing Brood War I'd only play group custom games because I felt some sort of social anxiety whenever I tried 1v1's. 2. 1v1's require effort to win. If you're logging on for a bit of fun, then jumping into a team game you feel that the responsibility to try-hard and win isn't (not completely) on you. You can play a cs match and not put in a whole lot of mental effort. In games like starcraft, not only do you need to fully focus in order to win the match, you also have to sustain that focus and effort for 10-20 minutes. It goes to show why most casual players prefer to jump in to a custom game like tug-of-war or campaign in rts games. It also show why the SC2 ladder is full of cannon rushers and 6 poolers. If you know one easy build that doesn't require skill to learn or execute and a proportion of the playerbase doesn't know how to counter it, then you're likely to take that mental shortcut.
Completely agree with your comment. To add to this, aging millenials like myself that grew up playing Brood War now have adult lives with jobs, responsibilities, some have families, and the idea of dedicating a huge chunk of my days off work to grind mechanics in Brood War just isn't practical anymore. To be honest, none of my friends play any hardcore games at all anymore, maybe with the exception of Dota 2. The older I get the more I realize these hardcore mechanical games are really for the young, for kids and young adults with tons of free time and no pesky responsibilities to get in the way.
For me it’s the opposite. 1v1 situations don’t bother me because if I lose I just think well okay I made some mistakes that game but I know what I can do to get better and win next time. It’s the team games that are socially intimidating for me because I don’t wanna be the reason for the team losing. When it’s just me losing and no one else is affected it doesn’t bother me but letting down other people gives me so much damn anxiety.
8:37 Supreme Commander 2 did this exact thing, you could research upgrades for your buildings, units and even unlock new ones. But it wasn't between missions in the campaign, but instead a part of the battle- you had to balance research points with other resources and micromanaging. Each game or 1v1 had a different combination of research abilities unlocked.
I agree with the matchmaking wizardry. I play pokemon go pvp and I'm bad, yet the matchmaking algorithm wont let me fall below 50% wins. Floundering elo has just as much to do but I'm very interested in how a.i. will help shape the future of stuff like that to keep engagement.
I dont know if it was added in post, i literally stopped and reset the video in the beginning because I was like "where the fuck is that elevator music coming from? 😅
i probably played 200 hours of warcraft 3 with my cousins as a kid, and i don’t think i played a single actual game- we only played wintermaul wars and legion td
Seeing this video and the concept that RTS are mostly missing a quality campaign gives me hope. A favorite game of mine is finally making a second game and I think the leaks have confirmed it will be an RTS. I kinda assumed that this was a negative thing despite being optimistic and willing to play it. The original game has a fantastic main story and gameplay loop that focuses on PvE and hearing that this is likely the best selling points for RTS games gets me even more excited. Given the quality of the rest of the original, I can't wait to see the new one. Check out Arknights Endfield. We only have a simply gameplay introduction, but I've got the best hopes for it.
This one hits different Big A started last year as a dishwasher in a big restaurant downtown and now I'm grilling steaks on that sigma grindset. Also Hearts of Iron 4 is the future of real time strategy.
Unironically inspiring - I have always felt it to be true subconsciously that with a little effort, you are in the top 20%, but I have never actually made the connection between elo and IRL.
10:15 Idk, miine brain is completely different. It's hard for me to cope with lose in a MOBA game because I find 100500 reasons why I was a victim of my team. I can be mad about the loss for a very long time. On the other side in a 1v1 game I might be mad that I lost, but because I know it's 100% my responsibility I will calm down a lot quicker and start finding out the reasons what went wrong.
I was introduced to Smash bros through Ultimate in early high school. I would loose constantly and, since I didn’t own the game, didn’t get any better till I got a switch my junior year. I started getting better and started winning, then I kept winning, and no one would play with me. I was kinda sad because I wasn’t trying to get good I just had fun playing and got better as a consequence of that. Switched my main to Little Mac to get people to play with me, worked for about 30min until I started three stocking my friends. Kinda backfired cause now they were pissed
That's exactly the issue - SC2 was both extremely popular, and had the most vibrant competitive scene of any game since. So it seemed like the esports success was the reason why the game was popular, right? But that's the exact mistake developers kept making. They kept trying to make a competitive game, for ranked ladder 1v1s, and we haven't seen a truly successful RTS ever since then. But the sandbox, campaigns, casual lobby games were king. Even in AoE2 - there's a lot more casual lobby PvP matches than ranked ladder games
I could never play any rts, when I play civ v I stare at a worker slack jawed for 15 minutes deciding whether I want it to build a wheat field or a workshop
I’ve used that 80 20 thing and I’ve developed tons of skills I could beat the average dude it. If I can’t be a grandmaster why not sit at 1200 elo and kill people who don’t play chess. If I can’t play college basketball why not get good enough to win at horse. If I can’t play at Wimbledon why not become a 3 and beat casuals at tennis.
I love campaigns and custom games so much in any rts if they are good. at the height of my time in sc2 I got to low GM (150-200) and I STILL played a shit ton of Coop and Campaigns for fun! custom maps too, I have 40k career games, but I bet you I got at least 20k arcade/coop games too. and these make up more time cuz arcades take longer
What an incredibly analogy sir glizzington, When scaling out the work ethic analogy with being decent at games. I already sell a good amount of real estate but only now do I realize how lazy I am actually being. Time to hit gold!!
