I used to work in a Rover dealership and can confirm that all of the Rover 400 / 45 series were lovely to drive. Shame about their image, but they were good cars.
+DannyDC2 Hey man, I use a RODE wireless mic. Really essential I find! I've seen a few of your videos, maybe you can help me get a drive in a real DC2?
DannyDC2 wonder if it's possible to get the K20a2 from my EP3 in this. Was considering doing the swap into the earlier MR2 than yours, but I now have my first kid on the way and need a 5 door. Wonder how the MGZS with a k20 would compare to an Accord Type R.. (not the euro R)
These are so bloody underrated. If you compare them to their contemporaries of the time such as the Civic Type R - they're an absolute bargain. Literally half the price, plus it has a lustier engine. Never thought I'd sound like an MG-Rover fan (I'm not, whatsoever) but I feel like the poor ZS needs to be defended a little!
The K series engine had a headgasket issue because management put in the cheapest gasket they could get. The Multi shim gasket works OK. I race an MGF in Australia where we have something called sunshine and heat. At 233000Klms I have done one gasket. There is a rule with the K series 4, wait until the oil reaches operating temp before you take the car over 4000rpm. And fit a low coolant alarm. Then of course the headgasket issue is terrible in the K engine, unlike the headbolt problem witht he AMG V8 that fails and destroys $80,000 worth of motor. Or the DSG problem of the VW. I could got on and on. There are not many car manufacturers that have a complete clean reputation. Fiats rust, Jeep electrics were designed to keep you in the dark, The Boxster engine had an IMS bearing problem. Ford Falcon front brake calipers failed. But none of these cars got the bad rep that the K series 4 had. So now I should get some great comments about , me, my taste, Australia, Kangaroos, sunshine and a load of schoolboy abuse, but nothing constructive about the issues above.
+Peter Andrews Funny isn't it how manufacturers can seeminly get away with huge issues like those you mentioned, but certain companies (eg. Rover) people just loved to bash
On the K4 cylinder yes. This car doesn't have that engine - it has the KV6 = 6 cylinder, a different build altogether - I have had mine 11 years and NO head gasket issues whatsoever. And on the 4 cylinder is fixable - there are parts used on the Freelander which resolve the issue. Having said that, I would not have the four cylinder turbo - it was never a strong combination for reliability.
Didn't see many V6 engines in Australia (I saw one). We tried a turbo on the K4, not a good result. Didn't have access to the original turbo K4. Thought about importing the turbo and a V6, but the freight was silly.
Heck yes. Sorry the rant was due to the badly informed going after the K4. We had a look at the V6 to put in the MGF, but we do not have access to that engine in Australia.
My dad worked at a Classic Car dealer that specialised in Leyland cars (MG, Rover, Triumph, Austin etc) and in the back were tons of MG donor cars which I used to learn how car mechanics work. So for that MG has always had a place in my heart.
The MGZT 260 is an absolute beast. My dad’s friend had one and it was the first fast car I’d ever been in, I remember so vividly being in the passenger seat and him putting his foot down in 2nd. It felt like a rocket powered ship with an angry monster under the bonnet to 6 (ish) year old me. I think that car is what started my lifelong interest in cars. It might not have tons of power but it has tons of character.
A family friend has one in his collection of MGs and Rovers. He used to sell new Mercedes. Think about that... Even though some say, no names no pack drill, I have far too many cars, promised myself the next car I buy with be a ZT V8.. ideally the ZT-T "Estate" car version. My view, it is impossible to have too many cars. The all electric new Chinese built MG5 is now in UK MG Motor showrooms and a few seen out and about. Lots of favourable RU-vid reports on that car. It is the closest thing to what "old school" me refers to an estate like my ZT-Ts currently available. Had a look at one recently. I much prefer an Estate body style than the far too ubiquitos SUV/Crossovers which now infest UK roads. ..Just maybe...
I've owned a Integra DC2 since 2007 (12 years). What people don't understand about the DC2 is the timing and setup of the car, take a corner like Knicker Brook at Oulton Park in the wet, you balance the DC2 on the throttle , the back will step out a little, then you use the LSD to pull the front round. The car allows you to play with the limit but in a safe way. There is so much feedback in the DC2, you get a film of oil on the road (after it's not rained for some time), and you feel this under the car. I do track days with people who also own Accord TypeR's and S2000's and the view is the DC2 is the best drive of all these cars. Gear change on the DC2 is like a bolt action rifle, there is a proper metal linkage connecting to the gearbox, non of this cable madness. I've done Silverstone, and the metal gear knob heats up and becomes hot in your hand near the end of track session. Other things with DC2 is the seats, someone I know has a new Focus RS we sat in each others cars, both agreed DC2 is more driver focused, even the visibility and driver view is better. The final thing is the B18C engine, it will rev for England, it stops at the limiter only, it's like motorbike technology. The engine revs so strong at the top if your on a track day and change late it bounces on the limiter until you change. And if that did not convince you on the DC2 lets talk reliability. My car is 20 years old, it's had a slave clutch cylinder, air con pully, 2 rear brake calibers, I some replacement light bulbs, ABS sensor, and I changed the original car battery in 2015! I'm also still on the original 20 year old clutch! Just compare that to any modern car, 20 years including labour around £1000 spent on actual problems, works out around £50 a year + servicing! Honda not only made a car great to drive, but they combined incredible reliability also.
Having owned both a ep3 type r and a zs180, I can say that the handling of the mg is better, better front end and nicer steering, in terms of outright pace the ep3 is a good bit quicker on the straights and far easier to tune. I had a mk2 zs and I actually think its a nice looking car, overall it’s a very good car that is very underrated.
brilliant, i remember all the V6 75s in the past but i never knew the ZS and 45 had a v6 until a couple years ago, strange hmmm. im a Ford/VW guy myself but i have always had a massive soft spot for rovers and MGs like this
Rover engines are popular amongst owners of FSO Polonez in Poland. Polonez is cult hatchback here. Best and easiest swap for Polonez is going for Rover's 1.8 VVT with 160hp. It's nearly plug and play swap. All you need to do after swap is install piggyback or standalone ECU. Polonez with 160hp becomes a rocket :)
Nope. Pretty much all VVC powered FSO Cars run standard Rover ECU, which is now remappable. Standalone isnt really the best for VVC, and piggyback doesnt work with MEMS3 unit as it corrupts ignition logic. I've done pretty much first VVC160 swap in Polonez 10 years ago that made stock power figure on the dyno and worked just like stock car.
A point of clarification. The stock output is 180 BHP as quoted in the video. However, this is with a (very) restrictive euro emissions airbox at the front / stock factory (read cheap) exhaust at the rear which are rumoured to have been further restricted deliberately by Rover so that the ZS did not overshadow the bigger, more expensive ZT which had the same engine... with 190 BHP stock. Irrespective of the reasoning, a very simple mod which requires few tools is to add the original dealer power upgrade option... cold air induction and a cat back big bore exhaust. The CAI options include BMC, Maxogen or Viper with a 78 to 80mm diameter CAF pipe to the grill. Any decent exhaust fabricator will make you a stainless steel cat back system - I added mine in 2010 for £150 (and its still fine). Happily with a simple reset of the ECU, the engine management will then re-learn this configuration and release the engine from its handcuffs - typically around 192 to 195 BHP although the real benefit is across the rev range - the car comes alive under the 3000 rev (first) VIS valve activation where the stock car feels asthmatic for a V6 quad cam. As a by product you get a much improved induction noise without this getting annoying or tiring on the motorway. Pretty much everyone who has bought and kept a ZS 180 has made this mod as the filter and exhaust came up for renewal because for the cost addition it is a no brainer. The 180's stock brakes and chassis can easily cope with the additional sprint through 2nd and 3rd as the original model was specified up to 240 BHP required for the mythical ZS-X supercharged model, which sadly never got passed a couple of demonstration cars in the UK although it was potentially an option in Australia some former MGR employees have suggested. Pictures: - the ITG down pipe from the stock throttle body: bit.ly/31kdU3P - the BMC carbon air box / sports filter is low and in the cool air: bit.ly/2VVAbnl - the CAF pipe I fabricated from PVC water pipe which is stronger than the expanding pipe your buy online - fitted perfect into the BMC box neck (you can seal any gaps with gorilla tape) - I included a water catch / drain loop before the air box: bit.ly/2oS5Vxv - and the car itself 2019, not bad for 14 years old. Pro Drive fettled this model for MGR (not mentioned in the video I don't think), hence the Scooby nod: bit.ly/31rnthg .
I'm with you and a lot of others on this one. I had a '93 Rover 827si - brilliant apart from a few electrical issues. My wife could parallel park it with ease and she loved winning the traffic light GP against boy racers! It will be in my Brit car classic garage when I win the lottery. 👍🏻
I’ve always had a soft spot for these. I do remember tiff needles review and i remember he liked the handling . When tiff talks about handing you should always listen
Really good review and very accurate I would say. I agree, we 100% knock ourselves in the UK and anything we produce. I was at school when the ZS came out, I was quite enthusiastic about the MG Rover's. I remember any of my school friends would laugh or say how rubbish an MG or Rover is, despite them being very young, having no driving licence, and 0 experience of the cars. So it seems ingrained from a young age I would.say - if you put an MG or Rover badge on their favourite BMW they would still say it's crap, rubbish, unreliable etc - it must be, it's a Rover/MG.
Have had one for three years now. Paid £1600 for a 2005 one-owner, low-miles one and never had any problems except routine maintenance. I get the odd "it's just a Rover" from my mates but for the money I challenge anyone to find more bang for your buck. Great video and comments about the British and British cars. A mate sold an Mg zt190 to a guy who travelled to Dorset from the Netherlands to get it. They are three times the price over there! Keep making the great vids!
They are so underrated,I absolutely loved owning 1 of these it handled great for being fwd,I'm thinking of buying another 1 to put on the drive and see if Its possible to put a k20 from an ep3 type r as a project.
I’m just about to rebuild my dad’s old Honda MB2 that he bought new in ‘96. In my parts list I’ve got a mix of MG ZS and various Honda bits, many of them common to the MG ZS, MB6, DC2, DC5, EK9 etc. It has to be the most interchangeable base to create a track car that’s ever been.
I had a long term loan car in 2004 and I agree with your comments, it was then replaced MGZT the Rover 75 MG variant, development by BMW which had outstanding comfort and great build quality..poor old Rover group if only BMW had stayed the distance
+Dylan 'Robin' Harwood That is very deliberate to catch the rally refugee market which was hugely popular at the time - in fact I think it was designed by Peter Stevens, who had done work on the Impreza
He also designed the XJ220. Not surprising that Rovers and MGs of the time were really curvy and bulbous cars. They don't just have Honda connections, but XJ220 connections!
Good point about us Brits... we've become a Nation of self-inflicted also rans. It did not used to be like that. Not only Tiff Needell, I was present when Channel Five was it did a three car shoot out TV film for their future programmes featuring the then newly arrived MG ZS 180 at Snetterton. Present was Penny Mallory, Jason Plato and a much slimmer back then Mike Brewer who would later go on to produce his own show with big Edd China Wheeler Dealers. I took along one of my cars which was an old school MG Montego 2.0EFi for old v. new MGs. Long story short, Plato who is a bit useful behind the wheel, said that the MG ZS 180 waqs the best front wheel drive handling car he'd ever driven. Previously before they well ready for sale, I had a drive in a pre-production factory ZS180 "mule". What a car. As ordinary cars go, that one did. The MG-R employee could drive a bit to. I decided there and then to get one, ideally with the 1.8T petrol turbo engine as fitted to the larger MG ZT and Rover 75. That 1.8T ZS never appeared. So the V6 was more car than we needed bought a new MG ZS120 for the family runabout. We still have the car and it passed its umpteenth MoT a week or so ago, now well North of 100,000 reliable miles. Yes, even with the "They all do that" 1.8 K-Series widespread myth widespread within the land of the self inflicted. My daily driver for the past seven years has been MG ZT with the 1.8T engines, currently my daily driver a MG ZT-T still a delight to drive showing over 100,000 miles too. My family and some of our friend all drive K-Series cars. We like 'em. With maintenance and checks as recommended by all manufacturers, our have all been very reliable. My older son has an S2 Lotus Elise which he's had for eleven years. That has the same engine as our MG ZS but, not necessarily in the right order.. Behind and not in front of the Driver.... A hoot to drive.. the ZS with the 1.8K is I feel a better handling car that the ZS180 perhaps mainly due to less weight up front! What has emerged since the Chinese purchased the IPRs of the much asset stripped remnants of the Longbridge outfit, their version of Rover's much unfairly maligned 1.8 K-Series fitted in their Chinese MG6 has no such negative reputation. Indeed some of the first production batch here in the UK were used as Taxis, one appearing frequently as a Taxi on ITV's Doc Martin. Some covering over 200,000 miles asn Taxis with only routine renewals you'd expect with just about any car over a similar Taxi use mileage. In closing, good point well made about the Brits and bad mouthing home product.... Only in the land of the self-inflicted and ongoing! Our Main Steam Media still spread FAKE NEWS on the proverbial daily basis. BRAINWASHING... my always drives German friendly neighbour believes the reason my MGs and Rovers are so bluddy reliable is because of their ... wait for it.. HONDA ENGINES... Brainwashing evidence of the first level. When ten years ago or more, I told him the Rover L-Series engine like the one in my Rover 600 was so good, that Honda put it in their Diesel Accord he still does not believe me. Altogether now.. British is Rubbish .. Foreign is better...drip drip drip media Brainwashing... Cue Clarkson's diminutive rodent Hamster sidekick blurting out loudly on Top Gear MGFs ARE RUBBISH! Cue folks telling me these folks are highly rewarded professionals John so know what they're on about. Yeah ... right. Media Bias and prejudice works and has harmful widespread influence.... only in the land of the self inflicted, not elsewhere...As one well known American once said. :DOH:!. Then doughnuts .. Yum-yum.
Never forget that BMW were the ones that pillaged Rover cars for the Mini. How many of them do you see on the roads? PS I paid 500 quid for my almost immaculate 58,000 mile mk1 ZS180 last year. I am getting 30+ mpg and it puts a smile on my face everyday. Only fault is the SRS light that I will get around to sorting (underseat wiring) very soon.
And the Rover 600 produced with Honda frightened the Germans I think - it was a very decent 3 Series alternative at the time. BMW later bought Rover - that must say something (yes, I know they wanted Land Rover / Range Rover)
I did like my uncles old Range Rover with the BMW engine in it, they didn't even bother to put Range Rover badges on the engine the valve cover just had the BMW logo on it :D
Unfortunately the British workers sabotaged production, until BMW finally had enough and gave up. The car itself was fine... Friend had an MG ZT v6, so basically the "sporty" version of the 75. Right hand drive, imported privately from Britain. Very fun and cool car. To quote him: "If BMW were building a front-wheel drive car, that would be it." However, spare parts supply was not the easiest in Germany after Rover closed down, which meant that some engine trouble was nearly impossible to repair over here, so he sold it eventually.
Very underrated cars, the same goes for the 75/ZT which in my opinion give even more value for money. The diesel versions are brilliant too, using a 2 litre BMW unit and easily mappable to 160-170hp with bags or torque.
I love your videos Jay. I'm pretty sure you won't think of this car the same when you've driven a real dc2 type r. What makes the dc2 r special is the type r treatment, seam welded chassis, engine with race tech and so on, stiffening and so on
+Iceman7 I look forward to the day I get to try one, and I don't doubt it is the superior car - it's more the MG gets constantly bashed when it has some damn fine lineage
Couple of things - KV6 wasn't lifted from the Freelander. It was designed to be used in the 1996 Rover 800, then spun out across the then Rover ranged including the Freelander. The MG ZS180 was a spin off of the Rover 425 prototype BMW killed. The Rover 400 which it was derived and the equivalent Civic share a common ancestor in the form of the Honda Domani. But the Civic and the 400 were co-developed by Rover and Honda - hence Rhonda. I had one of the Mk1 ZS180 as a daily driver for 12 years. It's retired in the garage now, replaced with a Golf GTI Mk7.5. I don't think the Golf drives as well....
One other thing. If coolant starts disappearing it is almost certainly NOT head gasket failure. You'll have a cracked thermostat. Coolant leaks from the thermostat and collects in the V at the top of the engine. Replacements are about £50. And (while I remember) check the VIS motors. If there's no surge at 2800 rpm, the VIS motors need replaced / fixed. There is one fly in the ointment. The inlet manifold. If it rattles, it's on it's way out. New ones? If you can get one, they're the thick end of £600. And if you do get one, let me know. I need a new one as well.
Same goes for the ZR. We had one , ok only a 120 but with a set of lowering springs and a decent exhaust system it was swift. It was never going to set the world a lite but it was fun. Plus in nearly 9 years of ownership 3 "major" issues. It's still on the road as well, the new owners had spent ages looking for our exact model.
i had a 420 with ZS roll bars,springs, dampers as a daily it never let me down had 191k on the clock when it went to the scrap man still have the 2ltr engine bomb proof those motors
Mg ztt and ex 75 owner here. The 75 was developed in conjunction with bmw as it shares many parts with the 3 series and 5 series. They was designed as rear wheel drive but due to cost and getting the car ready for launch asap, the rear drive was shelved until the v8. Also tge 75 was meant to slip inbetween the then 3series and 5series but bmw knew they needed to supply an engine which is why there's only thier diesel no petrols. Depending on how you look at it the headgasket issue is either a really good thing as it keeps prices low or bad as yours might go, but keeping a regular check on coolant and pipe work and getting a MLG fitted is always a "rover" owners right of passage. Are you sorting the infamous headlining out. Amazing content as all ways and very informative
My ZS180 in X Power Grey was probably the best looking car I have ever owned and boy did it sound good with the Induction kit I fitted to it pity it drank fuel at 5 miles to the Litre.
Good film,very under rated car. I have a very nice example I have owned since 2006 now only used as a 'hobby' car. They are a proper drivers car and often surprise other drivers a traffic lights. Will never sell mine. Owned a pair for a two year period. Rick M
you make amazing videos man :)) got me hooked from the lotus video and with this one you have confirmed you are a great guy to listen to ! :) keep up the good work
used one as the pace car for a year for britcar was almost as quick as 2/3rds of the field and was a hoot to drive i rated it very highly,the only disadvantage was the comicly small fuel tank which that v6 could hoover dry in very short order,but if you want a cheap track tool as this man says get into one.
Jay if you ever wish to do a video on a MGZT 260 Dreadnought version let me know, I did enjoy this very much. Side issue, I was the bloke who bought your Nan's Jeep. We had a great time raise a lot of cash, ran the Jeep for another 2 years whilst trying to remove the paint. Its still running about on a farm in Scotland
I love the brand mg simply because its British and it had soul. My first car was a ZR 1.4 which I converted to a 1.8VVC engine and for an 18 year old the car was mad fun. I flipped it last year in an accident which wasn't my fault and ive now got an MG6 mark 1 which was one of the last cars still built here in Longbridge and its an incredible car for the money you get all the creature comforts you could ask for heated seats full leather interior sat nav reverse camera and it only cost me 5 grand. MG are about sporty cars that are well made at a decent price and not to mention the heritage. I can't buy another car brand now I've always gotta have an MG in my life. You get a sort of attachment to them. Great video
I've always loved MG's even these ones. I would own one if I didn't already have a B GT. I'm also putting a Rover K series engine into my B GT because well it's 157 HP from an engine that weighs under 100 KG's. Also Rover 75's are also great cars. Rover used to make one of the coolest cars of the time the Rover P6.
That was my second choice but I wanted more power without forced induction. Also I wanted direct to head throttle bodies for the sound and throttle response. I have the 1.8 VVC unit as well so the MPG should be just under 40 which is pretty damn good. I was thinking of a Rover V8 engine but everyone does that and it's still a pretty heavy engine.
I have an MG ZTT 190 that goes like stink and also goes round corners like it is on rails; yes a reworked Rover 75, but by the co designer of the MCLAREN F1... and I regularly surprise Mercs, Audis & BMWs. Yet morons like Clarkson actually bragged about their part in Rover/MGs downfall... these were our jobs he was flushing down the toilet. We forget Rover pioneered safety when nobody else gave a damn and they always were a lot of car for the money. When they went down, the 75 was the safest car in Europe, but for lack of an overhead front airbag and the monocoque so advanced, it is STILL USED IN THE RECENT MG6 and do not get me started on the superb, creamy V6... shame on those who beguiled this GREAT MARQUE.
This video reminded me about these cars - I had a ZR120 for my first car, and given that my current Puma (bought as a temporary fun replacement after someone drove into my Celica) is dissolving before my eyes...I'm picking up a ZS180 tomorrow. Cheers! Side note: If anyone's thinking about grabbing one, you'd better hurry up. There are only 54 left on the road, apparently...
@@paulcooper7178 - Hatch. Don't know why, but the saloons just don't do it for me, looks-wise. Also...I play in a couple of bands, so a hatch is actually easier for loading up. The clutch is on its way out, but given that I only paid £650 for the car and everything else (including the slave cylinder) is absolutely spot-on, I'm happy with the replacement cost. Also managed to find some proper metal-and-enamel badges to replace the crappy faded-plastic ones :)
I have an XPG mk2 hatch, it also had the clutch go. Double-check for the diff oil seals leaking which was what caused it to slip. Its not too bad a job to swap it over can easily be done DIY over a weekend. I love the sound it makes, esp with the air intake and exhaust mods that it has.
The zs180 was a good car for £16k , but for the extra money you could of bought an accord type r witch was one of the best sports saloon cars you could buy at the time.
Lol. We Americans think of British vehicles as unreliable, prone to break down. That’s ALWAYS been the case. For example, Range Rover. Very popular here, but always ranked at the bottom in terms of reliability. I had NO IDEA that MG still exists! BTW- I still want a McLaren, preferably the 720s.
A lot of fair points made in this video, but I have to say the zt is better after you carry out a few upgrades. That said I love them both, but I did hate the terrible 90’s ergonomics of the zr’s cabin and dated instrument binacle, not much would get away from you an a B road so long as you had a kv6. Pretty sure an old rover designer once said “did you know cosworth redesigned the kv6 from its original Rover design to can more power and there was also a lot of help from Tickford !!!! “
One nugget for you - the ZS upgrade / conversion was designed by Peter Stevens, one reason the evolution boot spoiler looks like an Impreza. More importantly, he looked at the brakes and servos, chassis, suspension parts, wheels etc in the upgrade to cope with 260 BHP as they were going to put a supercharger on the KV6 (MGR had two demos cars made I believe) - so this is not an MGR sports model. It's a Pro Drive fettled Honda chassis.
Here is an after market supercharged ZS running 270 BHP in 2012 Pic: goo.gl/karu7z and this is allegedly one of the two MGR cars, later sold on sans supercharger development parts when the company went into insolvency PIC: goo.gl/LBqKYr - note the new bonnet they had fabricated. The car certainly feels like it can take more than the stock 178 BHP - front and rear discs are oversized for example 280 / 260 mm. It was to be called the ZS-X. Apparently there were two things that scuppered it (apart from them going bust) according to the MG forums (Xpower / MGRover.org) - it would have potentially over shadowed the V8 (Ford mustang engine) ZT 260 model which MGR were trying to sell at £27K+ (in 2005), with the ZS at around £18K which would have dented sales of the larger car. They struggled to get the cams right - tried multiple combinations to get the most out of the supercharger with reasonably smooth delivery and economy and it wasn't happening. This is one of the reasons many people take out the V6 for track ZS cars and put in the (Rover 600 ti) 2.0 ltr turbo engine which fits nicely and is easily modded.
There was an official Sprintex kit at one stage developed for the Australian market which might have been born out of the official MGR development but few UK garages with the knowledge and experience (of both the KV6 and Sprintex) to make it work. The biggest issue was the quad cam arrangement - people who considered the supercharger generally went down the camshaft route first and that really didn't work - I know one guy in Leeds (from XPower) who spent £2,000 on cams only to take them back out after 12 months. He went to Birmingham, Wales and Scotland in his attempt to sort them - no one it seems could find a decent set up. In the end, most people settle for 210 BHP and lighten the car - it's already light as you say. I find it's enough power especially in the wet when a heavy foot can have it squirming about at the front. The real change in pick-up and delivery comes form the BMC air mod / exhaust - it glides through the revs with ease rather than the original set up of being pretty flat and asthmatic under 3000 revs.
+Spartanm333 I saw a video of a Sprintex car on FB, it sounded evil! You're right about the car getting squirrelly under power as it is, mine spins up in the wet a lot. Should have taken a leaf from Honda's book with an LSD
Many thanks from a yank for explaining a bit of the baffling mysterious world of British autos and Brit car culture. Truly a world apart. Ok then, back to my rack of ribs on the smoker and we need more ice for the beer bin! (It's Superbowl Sunday if you hadn't guessed.) Then tomorrow it's back to dailying our 7400 lb GMCs, haha.
Owned 2 zs180s and 3 ep3 type r the zs180 has a far better chassis mainly due to the longer wheelbase which is funny as it is basically an old honda vti but with a 2.5 v6 and all the bits that broke was the rover bits 😀
I have a mk1 mg zs 180 and its best car i have ever owned plus i have mg zt 1.8 and have had a rover 420 and a mk1 rover 827 and am looking to sell the mg zt or swap for another
Owned both, ZS was/is quite underrated. Was out of date when it went on sale though, it's very much an early 90's car (sold in the early 00's), plus it's built cheaply so you get a shite clutch cylinder/intake manifold/thermostat housing etc. DC2's overall are just so much more special and have a handling balance, engine and gearbox a ZS can't match. KV6 sounds excellent with an exhaust and cone filter though. plus they are cheap as chips.
Surprising comment about the transmission to me, I’m almost certain the 180 used the pg1 gearbox - which is a Honda box, ok the throw is longer than the type r, but both my 180’s had a fantastic/precise gearchange and the box was a joy to use, it just lacked an LSD as standard! My MKII certainly had a better box than my current FN2, that’s crap in comparison! Clutch cylinder was shite in the 180’s though for sure, but there was a popular conversion to (I think) a Honda derived part which was very popular with forum members (talking x power forums here) usually called the “sheddist” clutch kit - in reference to the guy that created it! As for manifold, you just usually needed to make sure the VIS motors were working properly, one of them I remember you could “feel” if it was working with the way the car drove though so that’s easy enough, can’t remember about the other one though!?!
JayEmm on Cars when everything is good (linkeage/clutch/box), the gearchange/box should be really sweet! Not as short-a throw as the Honda’s probably, but it shouldn’t be bad in any way!
mcspikesky on a smooth surfaced road with flowing bends where you can easily keep it in the power/vtec band, the FN2 would be better as the handling is more “go kart” like, but realistically on our roads with all the lumps/bumps & potholes the 180 would outshine an FN2 because of the far superior balance between ride and handling. Add to that that the 180 with its v6 has more power & more torque for 3/4 of the Rev range than the type r too!
Handling is subjective I know, but there's no way I'd describe the handling of an FN2 "Go Kart" like. Their handling is acceptable, but nowhere near the feel of the ZS. McPherson struts & solid rear beam vs. mighty double wishbone. If you gave me the option of an FN2 'R or a ZS180 to have a blast down across a country road it'd be the ZS every time. No contest! :)
DannyDC2 that’s why I described the fn2 as “more go kart like”, meaning it’s firmer, less forgiving than a zs. I’ll say this though- if MGR hadn’t gone pop like they did, and you could still easily get parts and dealer servicing etc, I’d probably still have my MKII 180 saloon, i do miss the ride/handling balance it had and the engine sounded fantastic when giving it the beans too😜 ok that was in part to me having a full janspeed duplex system and decent induction. It’s probably the one car I’ve owned where I could say it felt like it had a soul/real character
Ah, I thought you meant that it turns in well, something that the FN2 does not. The ZS180s are ace, glad you enjoyed yours! I've only had a quick go in one, but have been driving similar cars for years. Love the sound of the KV6!
Rule of thumb has always been that you don’t need more than 200hp for a front wheel drive, these days the +300 are only driveable with terrabites of electronics. You’re better off with a car like this for ‘true’ performance perception IMHO...
I agree with you, I live in the uk and drive a 200bhp fwd golf. It’s great but in the rain the wheels spin in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear. So what’s the point in more power? It’s about driver enjoyment right
Hi mate - thanks for making this and I am glad you still have the car - I saw the original videos a while back. I've had this car since Aug 2007 bought at 22 months old, one owner 20K miles so I know it pretty well after 10 yrs. Now 54K miles in Guernsey - picture (Sept 2017): goo.gl/cwdXDT There are a few known niggles (relatively easily sorted, like the VIS clean up) although the updates that you mention to your car, the belts and new discs all round, are maintenance - if you drive a car hard at times or have green stuff pads, you will need to replace the discs - thats life. The belts are at 70K or 8 yrs. This car doesn't have anything like the service costs of a hot Impreza or BMW and you can use Honda parts in many cases - like the fore mentioned discs. I will post longer feedback when I get the chance but one thing you don't mention which is an absolute must on the KV6 for the enthusiast was an original dealer performance option, also offered by WSR (West Surrey Racing) back in the day. This is a BMC (or ITG) cold air induction kit which replaces the EU specified asthmatic air intake system, from CAF in the grill to throttle body PLUS a cat back simplified and bigger bore exhaust system. A manual reset of the ECU after fitting these is all you need for the engine management to learn the new air flow as the dynamic is pre-programmed within the system range - i.e. no need to chip or rolling road. I have this on my car and the difference from stock is significant, not a fan boy fantasy. You still have to work the gears to make it sing because of the Vis valve set up - economy (under 3k revs) and performance valves pre injection system. In damp conditions, it will spin the wheels in third gear if you are clumsy and that's with a heavy engine above them, not a light back end like on a BMW. The extra air and fuel allow the KV6 to reach its free revving potential. And you also get more of the V6 induction sound and burble as a bonus. I haven't had a Type R so I cannot compare but I have had an M3 and point to point on a twisty section, handling, breaking, corners my ZS would give the BM a run (not on a long straight obviously). Most of all its fun V6 motoring on a good chassis and it's cheap to maintain (and mod) as you say - a no brainer for a week end warriors.
Great vid but Rover failed because the cars were not up to standard. I agree it was terrible to see them go bust and I love the 75 and the MG's. Also, you say Brits hate and laugh at themselves but the rest of Europe think we are up ourselves!
If you go to Germany or France and don't see many British cars then clearly it's not because the British public are self deprecating. Obviously everyone else deprecates them too!
Don't suppose one of these friends lives in the black country? (Won't give away the exact area) Got a house just round the corner from me, that has a V8 vantage and usually an MG or 2 parked outside.
ZS180 was slow..... The Renault Laguna II 3.0 V6 24v VVT was the fastest and quickest of the bunch back around that era. Even quicker than the ST220. The same L7X engine went into the Clio V6 as well.
75 was a great car? I drove one of those when it was new.. its junk! Felt old even when it was new, lazy v6 engine which was impossible to drive in an exciting manor, felt old and out of date to drive. We don't take our cars seriously because most of them are rubbish. Yes mg are old hondas but why at the time would you buy a rover which is an old Honda when you can buy a modern Honda which will be considerably better?! I sometimes wonder if this guy knows what he's talking about or is it more a fact he's making a video for the sake of it. Mg weren't the worst but it's definitely not a brand to be proud of.
Unfortunately British cars have the tendency to be horrific when it comes to reliability! I think that's more to the point as to why people do not like nor drive British cars.
Absolute fucking nonsense, Integra is built to a much higher standard. Chassis are welded to a better standard, the type r engines are produced much better and produce way more power per displacement. I'm actually a Rover fanboy and anti Honda but this is fucking stupid.
![The MG ZS 180 is a British Integra Type R DC2, With a V6. Honestly. [VLOG]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
