I'll probably be destroyed for this, but I learned that Hyuna was supposed to be the "rapper" of the group I just paused for a while. Didn't make sense to me. Like no offence but I could see she wasn't a practiced rapper with her own lyrics. Like wtf?
@@cualli_neverland Just wish people would know more about what rapping actually is... They think fast talking-rap, nah! Also when some "write", that doesnt mean they are good for sht...
“if the rap is there just to fill a gap, then it’s probably not needed” THANK YOU 👏🏾👏🏾 the amount of groups that do this and basically ruin good songs gets on my last nerve, kpop companies need to realize that not every song/title track needs a rap
@@woojinbloo44 Then those rappers need to learn to sing! If we're being honest here, it feels like a good chunk of kpop "rappers" are often assigned the position because their vocals aren't as strong as their groups. I think if companies invested more in making sure the group had solid vocals all round, we wouldn't need to worry about rappers not getting enough lines. They could still contribute to the song, and add a rap when necessary/when it actually works w/ the song. (Ex: TXT, New Jeans, LeSserafim, etc.)
Goes also in the other direction of a perfect rap song and then suddenly you have a bubbly little girly voice coming in singing super high pitched. I fucking hate it.
why is no one mentioning LE from EXID, girl was literally an underground rapper before joining the group and has mentored many idols including hyuna. Plus considering how she basically produces and writes exid’s whole discography there was never a bad rap in their songs
Chaeyoung from Twice hurts bc she's a very good rapper but just gets given weird nonsense lines, my poor girl. In Sixteen she wrote her own raps and impressed many people, but in the group she gets nothing.
Oh really? I didn’t know that but that really sucks because I wouldn’t consider anyone in twice rappers at all and their rap is very weak. The fact that Chaeyoung can do a lot better, especially if she wrote it herself just feels like such a waste
@@clover2739 twice usually has better raps in their bsides (Basics and Shot Clock are pretty good, I'm gonna be a star unironically has great raps) cause in their title tracks they would just simply not fit
Soyeon writes and composed most of IDLE’s songs so she has a good grasp of structure for the most part, but I think recently she’s been trying to do more raps in English, and considering she’s not familiar with it it just ends up sorta awful. She has a strong accent, which I don’t personally mind, but it affects her performance a whole heck of a lot. Her raps in Lion, Oh My God, and Dumdi Dumdi are I think some of the best examples of her showing off her talent and skill in rap in IDLE songs, and they sound very different from whatever the hell her Tomboy rap was (in all seriousness though, the Tomboy rap at least was catchy). From what I know about her she is very passionate about rapping and she has been since long before debut, and her soloist songs were pretty emblematic of that. Her work in IDLE I think brought out her skill in the poetry part of rap, at least when she sings in Korean. I don’t know much about her time in Unpretty Rapstar so I can’t really say anything about how it affected her raps, but she definitely seems like she knows how to make her rapping sound good and she has the potential to be a great RAPPER, not just idol (on top of that she’s a slammin vocalist). But yeah, I hope the English rapping is something she can maybe change until it’s a little more refined, but that’s assuming it’s something she has control over and not a push from Cube. Aside from that, any thoughts about Moonbyul from Mamamoo?
I agree with what you're saying. Her recent raps in English are not as good as she raps in Korean. I feel like recently she is trying to get more of an International audience through rapping in English but it is actually not that good. I just wished she would go back to rapping in her own language.
I tried tricking myself into thinking that her rap in tomboy was charming but no it was just bad asf I can't lie to myself anymore 😭 she ate very single Korean rap she ever had but her tries in English are just not it. I hope if she/the company continues to try English songs they at least hire English speaking songwriters to work with her so the lyrics actually make sense
As a moomoo, I think Moonbyul's raps actually have different genres and she is a great lyricist. Though, I may be biased. But compared to most groups, (In my opinion) she has the most creativity with her raps and it's honestly amazing :)
I'm very curious as to why Cube doesn't bother to correct Soyeon's awful english grammar mistakes, they seriously make her sound dumb even if she isn't. At this point it's either a (weird) stylistic choice or the company is straight up setting her up. Her raps in Korean are far superior and to this day I don't know if she's ever topped what she did for K/DA (when she didn't write her raps).
Additionally, I think a different category is arguably "actual rapper in an idol group", such as BTS or SKZ rap line, Soyeon, Mark Lee or P1Harmony's Jongseob and Intak to quote a lesser-known example. I think you can really notice a gap in skill between designated rappers and artists who are actually allowed to pen their own bars. They flow better, there is much more confidence and personality, and they have personal style and swag.
On top of that we truly see the idol rappers skills when they are on a song that they are given more lines and the difference in skill from a rapper is loves rap and one who does it for the sake of the group are completely different.
A rapper used correctly is Moon Byul. She is a melodic rapper, in a group where melodic rapping is almost always a plus. She is versatile enough to fit the different genres that Mamamoo try out, and still doesn't sound out of place.
Isn’t Mamamoo mostly a self produced group? That’s probably why her talents are used so well, because the members know what she’s good at and write accordingly
@@OpossumOnTheMoon Not all of their songs are self produced but many are, Moon Byul especially writes most of her raps and she is the female idol with most writing credits in kpop.
@@Alina-fk3jf gotcha. I knew they came from a small company and had to choreograph a lot of their earlier songs so I didn’t know if they had to do the same with lyrics and stuff
yoongis rap part in we are bulletproof pt. 2 came immediately to my mind in this video lol. "Meanwhile, some are luckily picked up by an agency And being forced to rap as they can’t sing Such a waste to call you a rapper" Crazy that the boy wrote this in their debut ep.
This was a fun video thank you. I really love Dami’s rapping in Dreamcatcher and it fits a lot of what you stated for good raps. Plus they don’t use her rapping when the song isn’t needed and she sings. There are other rapper I have heard that fit this as well but I have heard some where the rap was just horrible or not needed.
I think it helps too that they’re letting her write a lot more of her raps recently. They’re tending to fit her style a lot better which feels more geared towards flow (although she’s definitely the most versatile rapper in the group, with SuA having almost too sensual a quality to her voice for the flow rapping that seems be favored in the harder hitting title tracks and poor Gahyeon having to tag team Dami in Dami’s preferred styles when her b-side raps that are more melodic definitely seem to suit her better). I’d consider her a great idol rapper working her way towards becoming a great rapper in general, and, more importantly, DCC’s creative team seems to be recognizing that by letting her write.
So real. Half the time kpop rappers are just members that the company doesn't want to vocal train, so they give them a rapper position ... but dont even teach them how to rap😂
@@youredumb2992 Ikr... when they throw the word "all rounder" "ace" i cringe so hard... if thats the case,then all of us aee all rounders and aces.... lol
Kpop rappers are often not rappers. They are sing talkers or talk singers. Rappers are like poets and writers. You actually have to write your own poetry to be called a poet. RAP = Rhythm And Poetry. You can read or sing a poem. Doesn’t make you a poet. I would argue J-Hope is a better example than SUGA for “flow rap”. But who am I kidding, all three rap line from BTS are amazing on both counts. Personally I would maintain that a rapper is not something you can train. You can introduce them to it, but they have to run with it themselves. Like J-Hope. He is extremely distinct from the other two BTS rap line. Because he started off as a hip hop dancer. But there it is: Hip Hop. At least his roots were already there before he started rapping. Also: Look at his lyric writing ability. He has his father’s literature brain and his lyrics are extremely complex with sophisticated word plays. THAT is what makes a rapper. He is the most bouncy groovy funky rapper unique to himself and BTS. Because it came from THE INSIDE and we can FEEL it. Because he is a poet and he can deliver the P in RAP. Can you train a great poet?
@@flymetotheup9904 You are staying the obvious because it goes without saying that these conversations are always going to be a matter of opinions? I don’t understand why kpop stans like you (yes I am making that assumption based on how stupid this conversation I am currently responding to) have such a hard time with dialogues that aren’t going like sheep or cool aid drinks.
And this is exactly what the majority of K-pop rappers lack of. If u don't feel it, if u don't write your own raps, if u don't even like hip hop, then u aren't even close to being a rapper
I have stabled through alot video of female rappers predebut and they are awesome but when they debut they are given this mediocre rap verse and this has really caused the misconception that they are barely any good female rappers.
Unfortunate that Soyeons first time trying to rap in English was also in her most popular song. Yeh, not the best lyrics, but she went right back to her native language for the next album. She also gets it right in the other 66 songs she wrote and produced because she is a real rapper. She does love rap. I don't think I need to tell any of this to the video creator, though. He seems pretty familiar with her. Good vid! Good production! Good knowledge of the subject matter!
@@ksis86 I agree. Since she was working with an American company, she probably had someone competent to direct her in terms of English and pronunciation.
Jinsoul was trained to be the vocalist of the team. However, her solo debut song required a rap part so she had to do it. She is a main vocalist as well (evident from her adlibs in So What) along with a few of Loona members.
My favourite rapper is actually Han Jisung, nowadays he doesn’t get as long rap parts as Changbin but I think they’re both great but Hans rap just is my personal favourite. His voice and technique is so versatile and not only that Han has an ability that most Kpop rappers don’t have, which is actually being able to freestyle. When it comes to Kpop idols I can’t think of anyone who can freestyle better than him and it’s an impressive skill to have. He can just rap from making stuff up in his head and it sounds better than a lot of prewritten raps from other idol rappers. I wish Han would release more solo rap songs like ‘I got it’ that shows him off again or have a solo rap feature similar to how Changbin did with mirror mirror because I think there’s so much he can do. Plus it’s clear Han isn’t given a rap position for the sake of it considering he’s one the best singers in the group as well, he can easily do both.
I think it's because he himself also really likes singing and is trying to branch out, meaning a bit less time allocated to rap per song, and a bit more time to sing, especially in title tracks
@@hwXD that used to be more the case I agree, but he doesn’t sing as much anymore in comparison either. He mainly raps with like 2 seconds of an ad-lib singing part. That’s why people were so excited to see him on Lee mujin service because they missed him singing since they felt like he didn’t do it in a while
If you go back and listen to Twice’s earlier music, Chaeyoung and Dahyun’s raps are very good. “Ooh aah” is a great example. But now….it’s like what the heck happened? Idk if the song production is holding them back or someone took over writing the lyrics (Chaeyoung wrote/writes most of the rap lyrics). And using Twice as my example, I feel it’s a problem more in the girl groups more that boy groups. Off the top of my head I can’t think of a male rapper who is so bad it makes me cringe when they come in with their part in the song.
if they had a wholeass flow rap verse in a song like Talk That Talk, Alcohol Free or Celebrate, it'd just sound off and wouldn't fit the song they usually have better raps in bsides cause they have more freedom with them, like Basics or Shot Clock for example
@@leitedesacogames the rap in Moonlight Sunrise is actually really good. I had only seen the MV once so I didn’t pay much attention but I was just watching it again. It’s good 👍🏻 maybe we are getting a new era of rap from Twice.
Now finally somebody feel me. I feel like some companies just slaps some rap in their song for the sake of having a rap. It kills me everytime, when a Kpop song is decently good but then the rap part comes. 💀 Producers be like: "Ooh this is a good song but this trend tells me to add a rap!! Hmm let's see where I can put this rap even though it's definitely not needed... Right here *SMACK!* There! A song with rap but fucked up. Perfect!"
This is how I feel about almost every SNSD title song since "The Boys". Even "I Got a Boy" which had such a weird, interesting song structure that if there was one song SNSD rapping could work in, it'd be that one. But nah.
This is exactly that type of video I was looking for. An explanation to why I feel most kpop rapper sounds like shit, knowing damn well they ain’t that bad for (idol) rappers.
My favourite rapper is definitely Mark from Nct. there's not a single one of his parts I don't love😭 their raps fit perfectly in their songs and don't sound out of place and marks raps are just my favourite cause I love the way he uses his voice😭
I just found this video and damn you were spot on with Rei(Ive). Like how they didn't use her as a rapper until "after like". And when they did use her in after like, they gave her a flow rap🤯
I am shocked that there aren't enough comments mentioning J-Hope as a rapper. He was put together in a group with 2 people who were underground rappers before. He didn't have any experience like them and he learnt everything he did during training+debuting with them. Around the debut era, you can see his style in bsides such as like, coffee, just one day are the melodic style and yet his flow in songs like the bts cyphers, all three parts, is insane!! And he does justice to both styles even to this day in his debut album Jack In The Box. i know most armys appreciate his skills in the group as a dancer, but i totally love J-Hope as a rapper, too. i know why praise rm and suga too, rm has a sense of poetry to his lyrics and yoongi is literally called midas hands for turning every song he produces to a hit but jhope has a unique style of story narration in his albums and mixtapes and i think the qualities of them as trio really makes bts rapline stand apart.
exactly. bts's rap line is too strong and you can understand that when their 3rd best rapper is better than other group's main rappers. jhope is just amazing honestly and he has proved countless times that he can keep up with his other 2 members who are incredible rappers and have had years of experience.
I so glad NewJeans don't have a rapper in their group because it's not needed its over used...me especially who is a rap music fan can't take most of these rapper seriously. If they were to come to the western public they be dragged for sure. BTS, G idle , 2nel, Big Bang , B.E.G , Winner , Block B , B.A.P to name a few they only groups that need rappers because of the music style that they do. Kpop companies need to stop doing that , if you do bubblegum pop or anything remotely close to something like Gfriend style of music please don't put a rapper. Like these groups that I mentioned have a right to have a rappers in their group because one the group was made around them , as well they aren't position fillers , these rappers joined these groups/companies with the full intent to rap. Like you just giving people rapper title because they can't sing don't cut it sorry but no. every kpop group does not need a rapper , if they can't sing oh freaken well , i don't want to here losy ass 123 - abc raps that only last about 3 seconds. like BlackPink rappers are good but even with them, they are lousy when it comes to writing their own raps...that rap they did for Miquel song sure thing was....i'm not even going to say anything. Good thing they have Teddy but that's what i'm saying i don't care if they good at reciting the raps , that don't make you a rapper. every kpop group don't need a rapper , Kpop see one group do it and they all wanrt to do it. Same with the style of music , if you can't pull it off please do not even try it , yes it's good to try new thing but some things is good to be left alone. like it's not even only about the fact of being good/ bad its just the fact that kpop loves to over saturate shit and don't know when to stop...they milk shit til they can't no more. Like you don't have to be from America or "the hood" to know how to rap, but when your true intention just to be a rapper because of the cool points it will give you, or the swag and bad bitch title you will have is a no. authenticity goes a long way...
What are you talking about? BTS? seriously? at least Suga and RM are legitimate rappers, they come from the underground since they were 13 years old, and from that age they were already praised, no one even wanted to go against RM because of how good he was, their raps are always accurate, not to mention the lyrics, they are practically rappers before idols, to produce and write their biggest musical influences are the biggest rappers in history in us. Has no sense. You can literally hear his influences in his raps.
@@hauicantero6252 I think they were actually saying that BTS and the other groups they mentioned should have rappers, and other groups don't because their musical styles don't need rapping.
@@hauicantero6252 Uhm, please read the comment again then read your reply. This is probably an honest mistake but it'll really help if you try to understand the comment first before replying (I relate because I've done this type of mistake before, it was embarassing 😭).
while i think soyeon's tomboy rap is quite weak lyrically, it's got a great flow against the punchy guitar in the background plus the way it builds up from the 'i love to dance' with the instrumental really works for me. you were right on the money when you said she's a flow rapper bc that flow is the only thing that saved the rap lmao.
Honestly, this is a really great breakdown of rap in kpop. I never understood why kpop songs NEEDED a rap section in most if not all songs. I would rather see a company train someone who really can’t rap as a sub vocalist than just give them raps that they just can’t handle. Additionally, your point about highlighting one’s ability in rapping is so spot on. For instance, Jennie from Blackpink is a pretty good rapper especially by kpop standards. However, sometimes in her live performances, she’ll slur her way through her D4 rap because it’s just way too fast for her (especially if she’s jumping around or dancing). It would have been better to give her a slower rap that she can handle performing live. Another thing that someone told me is that the lack of authenticity in kpop rap is annoying. Like they act like they’re so badass and came from a bad area growing up when they’re actually wealthy and never experienced any of that. I would rather have Chaeyoung rapping “risky risky wiggy wiggy” and rapping about love or friendship than someone rapping about something they never experienced *ahem* “all my hood unnies”
It worked well in certain groups to not have rappers. Like Gfriend was my ult and they never had a single rapper the whole time but every song slapped. I never once thought they needed a rapper either. It was perfect.
Changbin, Suga, Han, RM, Soyeon are just top notch - even great by western rap standards. Han, Changbin, Soyeon can surely do both flow & melodic rapping. Moonbyul is very good as well though her style of song she prefers are not my favorite. Mimi is definitely better at flow, but her melodic stuff is still very very decent compared to most!
In melodic rapper j hope tops the list, yeonjun is also good, we have to see more. Also, as the owner of the video said twice knows how to us melodic raps better than anyone so yeah them too.
K-pop rappers in groups most of the times don't even know anything about rap, hiphop and its history, which I think is important to know to honor the genre and its relevance. For BTS who is well known for its main writers and composers (the rap line) especially RM and Suga who always wanted to be a rapper/writer and conposito/writer, both started rapping at a young age, and hoped to have a career as rappers even though it turned out. be different, even if they release songs from other genres, they never stray from their musical roots, which is Hiphop, J-hope also grew up with this genre, that's why they have special skills on a type of rap, for me, they always know how to adapt their raps to their songs with BTS, for me they are the best parts of BTS songs, and that they are 3 rappers with different styles they still do well in each song, not to mention the Rap Line songs since Cypher. pt 1 has seen their growth as legitimate rappers.
@@myraclesname u said let them cook and then said they don't fit pop songs which???? excuse meeeee r we talking about the same songs like bwl, DNA, butter, save me and more
Good lyrics ARE important. Good Iyrics are one of the most important things a rap can have. It’s what makes rap/hiphop so raw and authentic. Rappers use their lyrics to tell a story and create meaning. Just because some kpop stans don’t pay attention to lyrics doesn’t mean they’re not important lol. I think this is slightly why khiphop rappers have this stigma against kpop rappers (not that I agree with the stigma). Also I do think having the ability to write good lyrics or at least lyrics that makes sense, says something about what it means to be a good rapper. Lastly, if most kpop stans aren’t paying attention to their rappers verses and are praising mediocre lyrics that don’t even make sense, doesn’t that say more about the fans’ music standards? 😕
Maybe that's why most of BTS's rap songs are so good . They just feel well put together and even if it's not a pure rap song , the rap is harmonious with the vocals . And also some Skz raps are good although there are some repetitive melody in their songs, I enjoy their songs . And Gidle is decent too. I think in this case the idols writing their own songs and good at it, would really help .
My favorite rapper in kpop is Dami from Dreamcatcher. She's a flow rapper (I think) and most raps she does are flow raps. The melodic ones aren't the best, but she's clearly a VERY strong rapper and for their title tracks they have never misused her. So the company does her well, and she does the songs well
I feel like she is a lil misused in the title tracks cus sometimes it doesn't fit the song (her rap in Boca is too aggressive compared to the soft vocals before and after)
Thank you for this video, it's what I've been saying for years! And just like Jackson once said in a show he was at with Namjoon, he (Namjoon) is a rapper, while Jackson himself is "a person who raps"
It's probably just a coincidence, but I did want to comment about you showing Yoongi/Suga in the part about idol rappers being basically forced into that position. BTS's rapline are one of the best examples of true rappers in kpop, they're in no way idol rappers, them also being the main writers and producers for their songs really helps their rap always being in place and flowing with the songs, which is a big reason why I like them so much. I don't like the kpop's industry obsession with rap in songs, so many times it just feels like it's there to be there. Many, many times, a rap part in a kpop song is the part where I have to kinda just sit through trying not to cringe cause it ruins the flow of the song so much, rather than a part than I can vibe to. They should really stop forcing to have rappers in their groups imo. Very nice video overall, you explained it very nicely
i hate it when companies put in a rap just for the sake of having a rap, kazuha clearly isnt a born rapper it just feels like they desperately wanted lesserafim to have a rapper and so many songs would be a lot better without a forced rap 😭
My favourite rappers are BTS's rapline, 3RACHA and Moonbyul. As a moa it hurts me to say that I don't think any of the TXT boys can rap that well, maybe Yeonjun if anyone.
The others rap? I thought Yeonjun was the only one that did. Then again, I haven't listened to most of their discography, so maybe there was something I missed, but I really thought Yeonjun was the only one who did any kind of attempt at rapping.
Nobody really said txt has a “rapline” tho?? they dont have positions but clearly only yeonjun has many rap parts, but he’s also a vocalists and mostly sings in txt songs. Very weird to compare them to groups with obvious raplines/under ground rappers to try to undermine txt :// as a “moa” you should know that txt are a vocal based group lol. Its not a bad thing that they dont have many rap parts in their music.
TXT is the male version of ITZY - they are dancers who have one good singer, the rest are backup singers and mediocre rapper. (If you're wondering, the one good singer is Lia and Taehyun)
I heard it’s about the stereotype that people (mostly girls) who swear also smoke cigarettes, so she basically saying just because she swears doesn’t mean she smokes. Still doesn’t make sense to me
A little summary about the song is obviously that they don't care about what the boy thinks about them and how they won't change for him, in Soyeons rap she basically list what she rather or likes to do. Right here she says "Sometimes we swear without cigarettes" where in this case the boy commands that she should stop her "smoking habits" because it's making her swear (stereotypically) but in that verse she clarifies that she just likes to swear even when she's not smoking, that's just the way she is and won't change it
17:15 "every K-pop idol can sing but not every K-pop idol can rap" boy, you'd be surprised with the amount of idols that cannot sing- And NGL, to me, that's one of the reasons why we end up with shitty rappers in groups. They're pretty but don't have skill to sing and companies think "well rapping is just talking, right?"
i started noticing the "a good kpop rap doesn't require a good lyric" first in blackpink...tbh i don't find their lyrics much of a deal, but their beats are addicting... i really was so disappointed at the pink venom comeback but just after 2 listens it started to get addicting, most of their title tracks are like that for me...but lets be honest we international kpop fans mostly got into kpop cuz of the music not lyrics
For me lyrics are the most important. Not to put them down but I think if you like certain groups like blackpink then the lyrics will mean way less because they’ve never been about lyrics, but with proper rappers lyrics is just as important as everything else so bad lyrics or not writing your raps ruins the whole thing for me.
blackpinks lyrics are okay sometimes. it’s usually lisa’s raps in english that are bad and are distracting, she sound much better when she raps in korean and the lyrics make more sense. jennie's raps are usually good and the rap she wrote for the solo remix was pretty good
I couldn't agree more with this. I must say that SM is one company that really surprised me with the improvement of their rappers. As much as I love their 2nd gen groups I always accepted that SM is for vocals not rap lol. But then they debuted NCT and dammmmn, some of my favourite Kpop rappers are from that NCT now (obv Mark). I appreciate that they took the time to develop their rappers because my issue with alot of kpop rappers is that they all sound the same, they don't have their own flavour - if that makes sense. But with NCT their rappers are very distinct, especially Taeyong and Mark, shoot I even thought Ten was a rapper when they first debuted. Some of the others took longer to develop but have really come into their own since debut, like Jeno from NCT Dream - Yang Yang's dope too. I've also noticed that the rappers in SM have improved overall - even the 2nd gen groups. When I first heard 'Odd Eyes' by SHINee I was shocked by how good the rap was. If you're gonna put someone in the rap position its vital that they develop their own sound, hopefully more companies will do this. Or just not use rap if its not needed!
I feel like the exact opposite happened with hybe. Started with one of the best raplines and rappers in kpop history (BTS), and now none of the other hybe groups have particularly good rappers who people who can actually rap or write good raps. I'd say NCT rappers are better than every HYBE rapper except BTS rapline.
@@-amel-9896 yes i agree. Also doesn't Bighit built image for being Hip Hop Company? Why they never produce atleast okey Rapper ever after BTS? Okey I'll make some deal with Yeonjun but the others still meh. Like everyone thought SM was just getting Jackpot with Mark Lee and Taeyong also i did. But the fact they got another one like Yangyang & Giselle whos Born to be Rappers and can produce another Rappers like Karina, Hendery, and Jeno (his improvements was the craziest ever), also i feels some old SM Rappers like Yeri & Minho improve these days make me so Confuse. I just wanna ask "WHY R&B COMPANY OUTHIPHOP A HIPHOP COMPANY?"😩 Back on 2016-2017 even untill end of 2019 I was expect Bighit produce more Good Rappers like BTS just like how YG did because we need more.
@@niyyaaspotify in my honest opinion, i think it's because Hybe is focusing more on vocal groups. Like it's so hard to get rappers to the level of BTS that are considered to be one if not the best rap line in K-pop. If u look at the labels under hybe majority of those groups have only vocalists and one or two that occasionally "rap". In the case of Big hit they only have two groups so we can't judge so early 🤷♀️
I would argue that Jisoo's first part in pretty savage was melodic rap. People say she was singing with flow or smth. Nonsense, if you ask me. It was melodic rapping. Periodt Ps: This is an example. When Lisa or Jennie does it, it's rap. When Jisoo does it, it's 'singing with flow'. What the actual heck.
exactly her verse was definitely a small rap, and it really suited her and her skill level and didn’t sound forced like other non rappers doing random raps and being cringe
People are too stuck on the labels. She's not labeled as a rapper therefore no one expects rap lines from her. But singing and rapping are not mutually exclusive. Just like rappers have to sing sometimes, it's becoming more common for vocalists to tackle rap verses sometimes. A good example is Taemin, a vocalist, rapping here and there in the latest SHINee album (he did a great job imo).
I think the reason why Soyeon's raps work where other raps in gg don't is because Soyeon IS a rapper and the writer. So she's basically writing the perfect rap to fit the song. Meanwhile other gg are writing raps FOR the rapper, and expecting it to work. This is why I think rappers like Yuki (Purple Kiss) who always pens her own verses work better because she's not fighting the song, she complimenting it along with her style.
The bigger problem is that the company just don't take in good rappers or train them. They'd rather take a pretty girl over a talented one and that's the problem
@@girldanielle-dt6jx I don’t think that’s an issue in itself, I think it’s cool to try to write stuff like that I’m a different language but it’s just not working out for her. I think if someone checked the lyrics over or maybe if she even rapped it differently it wouldn’t sound so off.
@@clover2739 Oh of course, but I think her pronunciation is off. I think she should practice her pronunciation before writing, and in the meanwhile rap in Korean.
@@girldanielle-dt6jx tbh for me I don’t notice anything about her pronunciation, it doesn’t sound that bad to me I can clearly understand what she’s saying. I think the lyrics and the fact she seems to go extra nasally for the English parts make it sound worse. Even in nude at the beginning of the song she does that extra nasally thing but doesn’t do it with the rap, maybe it’s a choice or it’s a habit with speaking English but it sounds so grating to the ears
Pingpong in Korea is like an expression, just like Tiki-Taka. A sport term use as an expression. Hyuna used Pingpong too, as an expression for a push-pull dynamic in relationships. So instead having a toxic push-pull relationship, she rather do a TikTok, something that's trendy but considered cringe but she don't care if people think it's cringe as long she's happy. She said your mom raised you as a prince, but it's queendom that's really self explainatory, a prince also sound highly but in this lyrics it's sound like an insult, it means the boy is raised as spoiled person and never had hardship. Buts it's queendom, because her mom is the one who raised him, according to her lyrics it's the woman who runs things. I guess her lyrics make sense to Korean, she said she write her lyrics in a way that Korean can sing and understand.
@@rosefulmadness can't remember where I saw that exactly it was a while ago. And yes she makes the whole songs, but it has to be approved by Cube, sometimes you're gonna have to change things to be able to put it out
Whenever I need to cleanse my little K-Pop listening ears I just listen to IKON. B.I. (although he’s not currently part of the group) and Bobby have so much natural talent. I also would’ve loved a mention of Mark from NCT. He single-handedly saves a lot of their songs imo
soyeon's verse in lion is great, that little tomboy rap kinda messed it all up .. now thats all people associate her with sadly. but that song got a PAK anyway so she wins
I just saw the recent video drop of ITZY singing karaoke and Ryujin absolutely killed it (singing i mean) and I just had to comeback here because not only do companies misuse them BUT THEY DONT EVEN NEED TO BE RAPPERS IN KPOP (And when you get into the songs the companies REJECT 💀 I swear they are intentionally sabotage the groups). The format of rap, rapper, lyricism, beats, etc… its literally a standard TO EXISIT (not to do well, not to stand out, but just to have em in the group
It's ok u can say it, the standards for vocals in kpop are in hell As long as u can reach the note the producers want u to reach you're good to go, doesn't matter if youre doing it in a healthy way or even if it sounds good. Just look at JYPE and friends
I think there is a big difference between K-pop idols that can rap and rappers who happen to also be idols (RM, Suga, Changbin, Han, ect..). So like if you are given the rap role once you become a trainee rather than coming in as a rapper from the jump because that's where your main talent lies. Usually the rappers who come in as established rappers write their own lyrics as well.
Melodic rapping is my favorite when its done really well. Like yeonjun's verses in lonely boy and hyeran's verse in brave girls deepened. Now that i think about it the rap is deepened is kinda a mix of both?
I think there's also something to be said about how there's a difference between idols who rap because they need to fill in a role and idols who rap because they genuinely have experience rapping and want to do it. Idols who have been rapping since before debut, who write their own lines and often times are even involved in the production aspect of the songs tend to feel much stronger and have a much better style that's recognizable to them. I'm surprised I haven't seen many comments bring up Monsta X, I think Jooheon and Changkyun are both clearly experienced and comfortable in what they do, not to mention their styles compliment each other really well so they can often bounce off each other in their songs in ways that feel interesting. Def my fav kpop rappers, but I'm biased.
im so glad i stumbled upon this vid! it's so sad kpop companies keep shoe-horning rap when not all songs need it. it just irks me to the core. like, rap is also an art in itself and i respect any idol and company who recognize this and use it to its potential. i rlly love this commentary, so well done! for twice tho: imo it's kinda hit or miss. i like the ones in their pre-feel special era +feel special, but the post-feel special ones i feel like are a little "eh". chaeyoung in general tho is underutilized tbh. every bside where she gets to write her raps, she slayed. i wish jype allows her for TTs bc it WILL work :')
A great example of well utilized rappers are the seventeen rap line (and even dino). They are definitely idol rappers but they also fit well in SVT songs. They have distinct styles as seen in Trauma and other rap unit songs.
Twice has a very identifiable twice structure to its songs and it works for them. Their bsides have a bit more exploration in all aspects like icon, oxygen, baby blue love and basics for instance.
I have always considered BTS rap line, rappers before idols. His solo songs and albums are not of an idol trying to fit into a rapper role, even if his main genre is not HipHop, you see that his style and influences are still in hip hop. On the contrary, J-hope for me is a singer and rapper but in his own style, I could not pigeonhole him in just one.
Jhope is definitely more of a rapper than a vocalist, yes he is a sub vocalist but he barely sings that much to be considered both. He’s definitely way more of a rapper and is stronger at it as well
JITB shows that he is really a good rapper and a better rapper than most main rappers here (actually it was kinda ok obvious just from his verses on BTS songs alone, but after listening to this album and watching lollapalooza its undebatable)
"Every kpop idol can sinh but not every kpop idol can rap" Bro.. A lot of kpop idols are forced to rap because they CAN'T SING. It's a lot harder to find a good vocalist in kpop than you think
believe me with right training they can at least be a decent sub vocalist ... it's great for everyone to be all rounders but not necessary if you are in a group (it's the point of being in a group) every member should focus the most on their ability... like someone can be a rapper but not an outstanding dancer... a dancer who is not great in vocals and rap ...
@Ariel the little FISH believe me, it's WAAAY easier to teach a person how to rap than to sing. (I'm talking about idol rapping which usually doesn't require writing lyrics)
@@choluizy4458 I don't know for others but for me and people I interacted with them it's easy to sing after 3 or 4 month if you atleast train for 1 hour a day..... for me I should have been grateful that I could speak ... I had no breathe support and my voice would crack while speaking ... but I trained for a month ... I am not an amazing singer but I improved hugely so I think if they actually focus on training them at least they can be decent sub vocalists but the thing is they don't train no matter what is the intention... if you chose rap because you couldn't sing, at least train to be an average rapper
fr though the reason why soyeon's rap in tomboy (and the song as a whole) irritates me so much is because she's a _good_ rapper. all of her raps up until then were really good, even in the songs that were kind of mediocre. and you can't even blame the company here because soyeon writes the songs and her rap parts herself. i feel like she wants to take a different direction and appeal more to the international audience, but she's not fluent in english at all, so the english lyrics sound horribly cringy. in nxde as well, that's one thing that prevented me from enjoying or liking the song. the nonsensical english lyrics. they need to hire a good songwriter who is fluent in english or heck, yuqi or minnie can help with it, since they've both also shown interest in songwriting and are actually fluent in english. soyeon does not need to do everything by herself; as talented as she is, there are fields that she isn't good at, and she needs to leave that to someone else. also, i wholly agree with your point about ive. another example of a group who knows when to utilize rapping would be Mamamoo. moonbyul is an amazing rapper and she's very versatile. she writes her own lyrics, has some very interesting flows and she's got the energy and stage presence to deliver it right (which is especially commendable considering how she was forced into the rap position, and she could have just half-assed it like some others). but even then, they have songs where moonbyul sings instead of rapping, and they're still great songs. loved this video btw you explained everything well while still keeping it light-hearted and entertaining!
@Sarah Belle eh. i mean that's the same amount of "meaning" that most generic songs have. it's very surface level, even though it's a women empowerment song. it just doesn't sound that deep compared to the rest of their songs. soyeon is a genius songwriter but she flopped in tomboy.
My favorite rapper has got to be changbin, I feel in a most of his raps, they typically fit the song well and are well suited to his ability, of course it helps that he's a member of 3racha, who have a huge hand in all of skz's production, which makes it much easier for the songs to suit both him and han's styles of rapping.
I’m sad I only found this video now, because I’ve been wanting someone to talk about this . Kpop has a lot of good rappers that don’t get a chance to show their abilities, and a lot of mediocre rappers that get praise for the bare minimum.
I'm really confused when groups(especially ggs) have like 2-3 rappers.. Cuz half of their songs will be vocal oriented, the whole rap line will become just bad vocal line
I like CL. She is a rap queen who can sing and dance really well too. I’d say the same for Minzy. Total triple threat. Lisa and Jennie are good, and so is Hyoyeon from SNSD, Jimin (AOA), and Hyuna (ofc). Stray Kids, BigBang, B.A.P, Block B, BTS, and BtoB ot7 rock my world with their rappers (so many B’s-never really noticed that before now), and Seventeen has good rappers too (and I know I’m missing some more good examples, but I haven’t slept in over 40 hours, so it’s hard to think rn. Chanyeol (EXO) and Sunwoo/Eric (The Boyz) are great rappers with pretty good flow. Irene (main rapper just for the title) though and solo Nayeon (“Pop!” did not need a rap verse)? Hell to the naw. Examples of some of the worst, imo. Also, Rei and Gaeul didn’t need to rap in “After Like”. I think I would have liked the song more if they just canned that superfluous, unnecessary rap. Chae from Twice can rap. Ryujin is alright too. These companies need to realize they *do not* need a rap in every damn song. They should just go with what feels natural, honestly.
As a person who writes K group structured songs and raps I can tell you for a fact that a lot of those producers who writes for those big idols cannot write a song to save their life let alone a rap and usually the case is either they don’t know how to write a rap or at least not for the person they’re writing it for or they’re just a bad producer all round because with vocalist you can pretty much say anything and as long as you hit the right notes, people are going to say it’s like Angel singing but if you are a rapper that does not apply if what you’re saying does not make sense and it doesn’t sound right with the person who’s rapping it then it’s not good. To be honest these K-pop producers nowadays are really blowing me because a lot of these 3rd Gen idols has such good songs in their prime, but I don’t know what happened. I feel like a lot of them got a new producers and that’s why the songs sound the way they do and I feel like that’s why these raps are sounding the way they do because they for sure can’t write one
Imagine if american artists started rapping in another language and completely BUTCHERED the language, how outrageous it would be. What makes kpop producers think it's fine to butcher the english language and the audience is expected to ignore that?
@sieunloversclub Why are you so hostile? It's true. You can't rap in another language and pronounce words wrong and use them in the wrong context. No one is attacking your favs.
“Every kpop idol can sing” debatable But other than that, interesting video! I knew nothing about rap, so I didn’t know why some kpop raps go in one ear and out the other. It’s like my brain automatically skips the rap-parts
@@clover2739 namjoon has a great singing voice, mono, and his first mixtape shows it well. Of course he isn't a singer and can't sing complicated notes or high or long notes, cuz he is a RAPPER, but he can have a good singing voice nonetheless and it always sounds great. Life by RM in my opinion is the song where has the best vocals and that was like 2015 so he probably improved since then.
@@-amel-9896 that’s why I said he can use his voice well in songs with how he sings but he’s still not a good singer, I don’t know why it matters anyways he’s really talented and doesn’t need to be a fantastic singer. In fact out of a lot of Kpop rappers he is still low down on the singing scale. I know all his songs, I discovered bts through his first mixtape when it came out. That’s still not good singing but it sounds great because he knows how to use his voice to his advantage in those songs. Namjoon knows he isn’t a great singer, that’s why he and BTS members say that they can’t stop laughing while hearing his guides when he sings because it sounds funny. That’s okay.
Dami and Gahyeon from Dreamcatcher are cool. SuA too ^^ Gahyeon entering the rap world slowly was great too see as an early insomnia. She never raps outside of her comfort zone, and her parts often helps building hype for Dami's parts (good structure, i guess ?). "Boca" may contain their best raps in my opinion . ( "Hold up, i'm a geek the big paradox" is famous + means a lot in the song : the song is about not posting hate online cuz it can hurt people, and her all rap means "by protecting people online, I attack too, so i'm part of the shit" which is indeed, a paradox)
Soyeon just needs to stop rapping in English and she'll go down as a legend. She's a phenomenal rapper and half her group speaks English quite alright, but wtf are the recent songs? "selfmade woman" but where is the "wo" part? "now i draw a rakshai nxde"?
@@hope3290 Cube is among the most notorious for not having one in their company. But I thought having 2-3 English speaking foreigners would have helped but no. It's blatantly worse
@@norabeckwith6893 "how they should sound" lmao this whole video is about that. Pick some other audience. Don't need your white name telling my Asian ass I sound racist to an Asian. The fuck
I’m glad that 4th Gen is slowly leaning into songs that doesn’t necessarily need rap. I’ve been a kpop fan since I was like 10 and back then rapping is pushed by companies even though their idols can’t rap or doesn’t even know the history behind it. I agree on everything you said. Soyeon needs to hone on her english & pronunciations before diving into english rap, she’ll be a beast if she perfected that. I’d rather listen to Twice’s happy rap lines (that sometimes is gibberish) than hearing idols try to be “hood” especially if they don’t even Write their own bars. My favorite’s *currently* are Han Jisung from Stray Kids, since he writes his own raps, is also versatile, can flow & do melodic rap as well as sing & belt his songs. I think he’s untapped unlike Changbin, he needs his own big song with an MV. I also do like Changbin, but its a given since he’s already that popular and everyone knows his flows are good and he can flow fast. There’s a TON of kpop groups still in 4th Gen that’s trying to make their raps happen even though it truly looks and sounds like they can’t even write their own lyrics or just sound and flow good on the song. I blame the company for this or the producer that handles those groups.
Very interesting vids content wise and in terms of presentation as well. I like how you dive into topics that need to be discussed and your viewpoint on them. I also enjoy the text on screen and the typing sounds. You may consider substituting "basically" with a synonym from time to time. "Practically" for example.
YG handles rappers really well. What really stands out to me is GD and TOP in Haru Haru, an emotional song, smoothly transitioning between melodic and flow rap seemlessly
When TS Entertainment was still around, the company had a group called B.A.P. The name stood for Best Absolute Perfect. The group had music that was more hip hop than anything. The rappers of the group, who were the leader and main rapper respectively, were heavily involved in the production of the songs until the company made the group release songs in Japanese. Despite that, all the songs from their Korean releases (minus one where the rappers were not on at all) had perfect places for raps to be in. They weren’t just put in randomly as an afterthought, which seems to happen with some kpop groups. Really wish some companies understood rap more often.
Soyeon's rap in Tomboy is a reply to all the boyband crazy hype. She's saying they're pretty princes but she's a queen and can still be one even with getting sloppy drunk and not caring what people think about her.
The Izone part 🤣🤣 (love that song btw) But seriously I’ve been obsessed with your videos.. from the editing to the logic behind what you say and your humor and everything! I’ve been so addicted to watching your videos! ❤ I learned so much watching this video like the two types of rap styles and I agree with raps just being for fun sometimes as well because it’s just a song at the end of the day… 19:40
Suga, Soyeon, Moonbyul and Dami all seemed to have proven themselves above mere competency for the most part. They should stick to rapping in the native language though, as I would imagine rapping in another language naturally increases the difficulty (a la Soyeon). I also think Hikaru from Kep1er could have real potential, but I don't think her capabilities are correctly applied within the group. I just recall that video where she memorised the Korean rap entirely, her attitude, stage presence and flow seemed pretty damn good for a young newbie to the kpop industry. Though with all that said, I will be the first to admit I am no rap connoisseur.
am i the only person who gets the "you said it's love, well you got a point" line? it's a tennis reference. "love" is the term for when you have no points in tennis, so 1:0 would be read as "one-love." the guy is talking about how he's in love, but the scoreboard is 1:0 in his favour, because he has a point. how you gonna do both? you can't "be in love" and have a point at the same time. why am i the only one who thinks this line is clever af? maybe the explanation is that i don't understand tennis lmaooooo
This video was so interesting. I'm a big fan of Twice and you're not wrong about JYP using raps well, but I felt the quality drop so much. The older raps were all much more fun and utilized well! They also have never given Momo a full rap after Im Gonna Be A Star (aside from Hello) which I find a little confusing because her rap part in the song is amazing.... I hope that with the new Twice contracts, Chaeyoung gets to write many more raps. All of what she's written in the past was really enjoyable (daring woman rap, greedy rap, work rap), I'd love to see more of that :)
The thing about Soyeon's english verses is that her english is so mumbly and accented (I mean it in the nicest way possible) that I don't even understand what she's saying half the time and I can't be affected by the cringy lyrics
My number one favourite rappers are Monsta x rapline both Joohoney and I.M. Their flow, lyrics and the fact that they are good producers beside rapping show how talented they are. BTS rapline are my second favourites 🔥
It’s nice to hear someone that’s actually knowledgeable about rapping talk about rapping in kpop. And can actually explain why some raps are actually bad👀 My favorite rappers in kpop are Suga and L.E 😮💨 we need a collab
Kpop labels need to realize not every song needs a rap. Most of the rap lines can sing as well, would love to see them give those rappers an opportunity to show more range with their singing
