especially after how big of a deal the WHY of the homework rebellion was, she didn’t have anyone to HELP her. after that cory and riley and farkle AND lucas AND ZAY all can be seen doing homework with her during the show! maya was literally just gaining secure attachments and a support system and healthy coping mechanisms throuout the show and the entirety of the support system used it against her
Friends to help and encourage her to do her schoolwork. Her mom was making a real effort to be there more especially once she settled into a good job and with a good guy. Not to mention Shawn would have been encouraging her to be the best version of herself she could. The show made it seem like of them became other people instead of just stable version of who they are. They just changed, that’s something people do. Everyone acting like Maya did something wrong. It was really just horrible.
@@michelledaly9089 Yeah, I was SO hoping Shawn would see through Riley's gaslighting instead of touting it as 'Topangaese' [nope BMW Topanga always encouraged Shawn to improve himself !] and TOLD RILEY OFF! But, instead GMW trashed Shawn's character's integrity via him praising Riley's stance instead of encouraging Maya to stand up for herself and not let anyone trash her changing for the better.
i hated that like damn people can’t grow? they don’t want her to better herself so bad, there had to be something wrong with her or that she was trying to be like riley.
@@Xitl4ly I couldn't help but think that Riley especially felt threatened if she didn't think she'd be able to keep looking down and sneering at Maya. Yes, I said it! What a horrible 'lesson' that was for those viewers who'd struggled but like Maya wanted to change for the better! The complete antithesis to 'Believe in yourself.Dream. Try. Do good.'
Hot take, Riley was supportive of Lucas at the Rodeo because she is secure with her life and the people in it. Losing people in her life isn’t an insecurity. Maya has none of that so losing people is a big insecurity, and that’s why she wasn’t supportive.
You've cracked the code. Thank you, i was wondering why I still agreed more with Maya's way of thinking and it's because the same is true for me as you've just described for her
and i think that was intentional! Auggie and Ava are a direct mirror to Cory and Topanga so they use that to contrast cory and topanga with riley and lucas
The "why can't both of us like a good guy" realllyyyy hurt me because they all essentially convinced Maya that she essentially doesn't deserve a good guy, and she got stuck with Josh again. Josh, the manipulative asshole who is too old for her.
@@MJAYZ007 I'm not blaming Maya at all. But Josh should've known better! He's way too old for her and he shouldn't have been stringing her along and giving her hope of them being together. Not only that, he was manipulating her and telling her who she was and who she wasn't when all she was trying to do was explore another side of her. Honestly, Maya was just trying to improve herself and be happy and everyone was all, "But that's not you Maya." Why can't it be her? That's why their age gap is so concerning. She's not even fully developed yet and he has so much power and authority over her. It is easy for him to manipulate her and she will eat up whatever he says because she is still young. He was a grown-ass adult who should've done better for Maya.
"Too old for her"? It's three years, as the show repeatedly points out. Now granted, that's *everything* when you're a teenager, but in life? Three years is *nothing.* Now, Disney would never, but if they had Josh be about 26, and Maya was convinced she loved him, they'd be together, "what's ten/eleven/twelve years," and it was the same plotline of him eventually saying he liked her, too, then yes. Manipulative, creepy, grooming, too-old-for-her asshole. But three years? Nah.
@@kateworkman921 3 years matters a bunch when you're a child. It's really weird for an almost 18-year-old to be dating a 14-year-old. 3 year age gap is nothing when you're both consenting adults. To put this into perspective, Maya is literally fresh out of middle school. And Josh is about to go to college? Their maturity at those ages is very very different. It's weird and gross. And he used the fact that she looked up to him to manipulate her. Also, I don't really remember the show too well, but wasn't he literally in college at some point and she was like in her sophomore year? I think that's so weird. I feel like I couldn't look at high schoolers in college without thinking they were babies.
in my opinion, Riley was really manipulative but used her personality as an excuse. She gaslit and manipulated Mya into thinking that she was becoming her when really she was just improving herself. poor mya
This is exactly what i thought, and now since i lived through exactly what happened in the triangle (its like too similar) its crazy to see how my best friend was manipulating me after i told her my feelings and she used her personality as a excuse too. Absolutely wild.
@@SabesUnknown I hope you realize that with your claimed 'best friend' behaving that way, you truly didn't need any enemies. Seriously, I hope you've found some true friends who support and encourage your growth rather than use your previous fessing against you (and I'd like to think Maya found the same after REALLY calling Riley on her stuff)!
I mean even Maya agreed. They were both bad friends lol a real friend wouldn’t have liked a guy your be at friend liked first. Plus Riley wasn’t the only one to say that, everyone from Lucas to Farkle were concerned about Riley bc she was projecting and acting like a different person (let’s be honest they was a lazy plot anyways) but I don’t think it was Riley’s fault for once
@@lunarialoonatic Maya 'agreed' only because Riley made it clear that she would end their alleged 'friendship' if Maya didn't parrot Riley's party line- and the others were all too . .wimpy to stand up to Riley and tell her to back off so they went along! Maya was trying to improve herself and her tude but Riley couldn't have that because she was insecure that Maya wouldn't worship her. Don't forget she constantly put down Maya's intelligence and said Maya was bad. .allegedly jokingly ! Riley was a gaslighting bully and openly mean but everyone faked she was an adorable saint!
@@wardarcade7452 it was just lazy writing to put it simply. I hate both of them as characters in different ways. Maya bc I’m sick of her fan base justifying her “winning Lucas” just bc she has a sad life. And tbh her change was very weird and sudden: she wasn’t even acting “good.” She was actually acting like someone she wasn’t. If this were on ABC it could brush more into her identity crisis bc then she went to the opposite extreme and acting out purposely. I don’t think anyone handled her change well from Riley to Lucas to Farkle. And again idc who you are if you’re going to like someone your friend liked first that’s pretty f’d up. Maya was cool in the early seasons. Then the show tried to make her some baddie when really she just pretends and doesn’t even know who she is and how to treat people. While Riley never grows up and expects things to be her way. Both of them need help
The actor who plays Lucas (Peyton) mentioned on his twitch stream that Maya and Lucas was never part of the original storyline. The producers included it because of the on-screen chemistry between the two actors. He even talked about how him and Sabrina were the closest of the cast back when the show was filmed, which is evident in the final product. He even mentioned that he was rooting for Lucaya and didn't agree with the producer's decision to cut their kiss from the show. It really is that the chemistry between actors was just better with Maya and Lucas than Riley and Lucas, which sucks cause it muddied the story of the show.
As much as I hate lucaya being the better couple bc it makes their relationship kinda taboo(?) like them betraying riley but they are better. It really sucks for all of them bc the whole thing is a mess.
@@montereyjackcheesestick8912 Yeah she was a bit younger so that probably played a role. They also probably didn't get as many opportunities to hang out to develop that chemistry because I remember back then the cast did interviews talking about prank wars but only between Peyton and Sabrina and only those two went to charity / Make a Wish events together.
Riarkle was so robbed from being endgame. The parallels to Cory and Topanga were so obvious from S1, it would have been so beautiful to see a healthy best friends to lovers story :')
Honestly I feel like if it actually was given the same chance BMW got like all the seasons and better writing, they def could’ve gotten away with making them end game
Basically everyone but Lucas needs therapy in this triangle. Maya because everyone was gaslighting her, Riley for whatever made her gaslight Maya, and Josh for crushing on people way too young for him
Unsurprisingly, Topanga’s controlling and competitive attitude combined with Cory’s stubborn and tone deafness resulted in a very overbearing girl. I can’t blame that one girl from season 3 for not wanting to be Riley’s friend
Real. I’ll never forget the time Cory asked Maya why she wasn’t doing her homework, KNOWING her mother, KNOWING her home situation, especially since their daughters were best friends and Maya was always in his house…
I went to hs with a girl who was a regular casted as one of the classmates and she said it was bc both writers and producers didn't want people speculating just bc of the faces of the background characters! but.. considering they are all pretty still faced in beginning of season 1 when lucaya wasn't evolved yet might've just been that they really weren't instructed to do much but to look haha :)
I mean, where else are they subposed to look? Corey allows Riley and her friends to have so many separate conversations in class, they're just looking at whoever is talking. Also, I've seen some extras look at the main ones with a look of discust of something, and it's actually pretty funny
Watching the scene where Riley is yelling at Maya that she's not acting like herself is so heartbreaking. I think the actress for Maya is wonderful because she does a great job at portraying someone who's closed off, scared, and confused without having to cry, like her body language and facial expression captures it perfectly, to the point the scene is painful to watch.
Yes!!! Sabrina is a great actress. Despite how upsetting that scene is for writing reasons, both Sabrina and Rowan clearly put a lot of effort into portraying that conversation with a lot of emotion and making it feel genuine and not forced, which is why I also love watching that scene.
That scene in particular makes me so upset because everyone around is just telling her that she's trying to be like riley and when she asks Riley for a clear example she justs starts singing..
Like, honestly. I wish that scene ended differently because I literally see so much childhood trauma within Maya. The way she dissociated and felt confused when Riley yelled at her and attacked her. That's a response that a lot of traumatized kids have. I feel like if Maya wasn't forcibly defined by what Riley made her be, she'd have an easier time of figuring out herself. Basically, she's shutting down due to the amount of stress and pressure that Riley is giving her. And I feel like Riley is really toxic and ignorant for that.
It really breaks me that Maya sits there and is like "you think I'm selfish? I don't want you to think of me like that.." as Riley continues to egg her on. It hurts so much when someone doesn't recognize your pain and views you as a person you don't want to be. You can see Maya is really hurting and Riley continues to tell her "you're a selfish person" without really registering it
"what's wrong with who I am now?" Like why is this children's show I never watched actually hurting me. Can we stop making characters bettering themselves a bad thing please?? I want to be better and deserve to be better and so does Maya and I feel like it's hard to feel like you deserve to get better when characters you relate to are told they aren't allowed to improve
Agreed! How I wish Maya had told Riley 'pot calling kettle' when Riley had the gall to claim Maya was selfish! I also wish someone had told off Riley for being such a total dictator to the whole peer group insisting on everyone having to spill their guts ,about their personal feelings,etc, at her command ASAP. . and if they didn't do it, then she'd pour on the guilts and claim they were bad people and disloyal to her! No one confronted her over the fact that confidences between friends are supposed to be privileges the sharer decides each time NOT an entitlement the other person insists on because they want to use the info be able to run other folks' lives!
@raynebowmo2223 if a lot of people see you as a bad person, its probably because you are doing something wrong, and being here playing the victim makes it worse 😆
I feel like Maya got told what her feelings were in the show the whole time. Like, her feelings for Lucas, her being Riley, her being too good, and they pretty much put her into a box where she couldn’t even have time to process anything for herself so she just conformed to their thoughts of her. This is especially present within the whole being Riley storyline.
@jazzcl7 no remember when she was pretending to be maya she realized she liked him not as a lover but a brother and that’s why she stopped pretending because she came to that conclusion and was able to move on
Can we talk about how Zay (portrayed by Amir Mitchell-Townes) is the secret captain of Lucaya ship? “Hey Maya, looks like Lucas here is getting all fired up on your behalf.”
I would have loved to see Zay and Maya together and was literally screaming of happiness when Zay was “asking her out to the movies” to make her feel included
That made me angry like sorry she’s allowed to grow as a person just because you don’t like that doesn’t make it right to gaslight her and make her feel like poop I wanted to hug her and tell them to get lost because it’s okay for Lucas and farkle to grow but not maya
yea she’s maturing she’s not gonna be the same and it’s a rlly good change i thought that shawn was gonna built up on her successes but instead he was influenced by Riley, topanga, and cory :(
yes!!! you can see how much he craves his grandfather's approval and in gm friendship it's implied his relationship with his dad is pretty distant (considering we only hear about his mom besides that episode and he only talks to his dad on the phone, his parents could also be divorced), so it would have been cool to show how that affected him. as bad as this sounds, him losing the rodeo and his grandfather realizing he doesn't need that to be proud of his grandson would have been so much better.
I always thought that Lucas would have chosen Maya, as he looked disappointed when she told him to be with Riley. He had better chemistry with Maya, in my opinion.
my word everything about 36:59 is making my stomach turn. the way Maya looks so deflated and is curled in on herself, the way she tries to advocate for Lucas’ voice in deciding this mess of a love triangle only to be immediately dismissed and shot down, the way Riley tries to antagonize Maya into getting mad because “the Maya she’s always been would take nothing from nobody” as if Maya didn’t spend a year suppressing her own feelings for Riley’s sake, as if Maya wasn’t abandoned by her father and has self-worth issues because of it to the point that she initially believes that “Hope is for suckers,” as if Maya can only react to upsetting things in anger and outrage and not in sadness and resignation…..how Riley doesn’t deny it when Maya asks if Riley thinks she’s being selfish and how Riley doesn’t understand that Maya’s abandonment issues _very clearly make her terrified of losing Riley and the Matthews because they’re her family and support system_ and so of course she’s not going to fight Riley for Lucas, because she doesn’t want to lose Riley like she lost her father……..the way Maya can’t even look Riley in the eyes and seems to be borderline dissociating because of the way Riley is yelling at her. One of the most toxic and upsetting scenes of the show, honestly. Edit: “What’s wrong with us both liking the same guy? What’s wrong with who I am now?” broke my damn heart. Justice for Maya, oh my word. That’s so messed up.
the line "why cant we both like a nice guy" is so fucking heartbreaking. people like maya that come from broken homes and struggle with self worth tend to date toxic men because it subconsciously "feels like home" and they probably dont even know the guys toxic until theyre together but like.. just gravitate to them. maya being told (sometimes indirectly) that she cant have good grades, she cant be a good student, she cant be a good person, she cant like nice boys, and that shes selfish is just so gross and devastatingly saddening. i cant describe how upset seeing that made me. seeing her shut down like that and still be gaslit, berated, and yelled at... jesus christ :((...
IMO, it wasn't just bullying her out of the triangle (which was a very tiny deal) but it was bullying/guilting her from wanting to attempt to change for the better (which threatened Riley's world order) via gaslighting with NO ONE calling Riley on it or going to bat for Maya! I'd like to think [after the last episode] Maya woke up and realized that, despite all the constant declarations of love,etc. that sticking with Riley was a lopsided toxic deal and she needed to try to find REAL friends who'd cheer instead of dis her wanting to change for the better instead of claim to refuse to believe she COULD but was just imitating Riley! BOOO!!
the thing that makes me the most upset about the whole maya became riley thing is it's basically saying that maya can't grow and change. like she's getting better grades and getting in less trouble that didn't mean she wasn't herself she was just growing up she gets punished for growing and it makes me so angry!!!!
Yeah..I mean I don't think the original boy meets world would ever have done that to shawn..like make him stagnant because you're suppose to love him just as much as corey. It teaches kids you're happy for everyone around you, not just you "the main character" is that makes sense.
Throughout the love triangle (and the entire show), Riley was infantilized in a really weird way. Even in high school she acts like a very young child and the other characters test her like that. Not always, but just enough that it kind of creeps me out. I think that’s why so many people shipped Maya and Lucas. Riley never really felt as mature as the others, similar to some criticisms with Kataang from Avatar: The Last Airbender.
Riley is a very static character who is definitely infantilized. She always has to have her daddy as her teacher, her friends always have to think about what makes Riley happy, and she never does anything with the guy she gaslit her best friend for. Boy Meets World was about Cory being able to grow up and develop with the world but Girl Meets World is about the world conforming to whatever Riley wants.
Personally I agree with the overall statement, but Kataang one is a bit iffy. I do agree, Katara was amongst the most mature characters despite her young age, but so was Aang. He had the weight of the world on his shoulders as the Avatar, but still managed to remain very spiritual and wise to everyone around him. Even though both could be impulsive from time to time, that’s what made them human as we all make mistakes and aren’t perfect. It’s why I think they made a great couple as they could both continue to grow and learn together, yk?
@@lizzie9977 thank you! Aang let katara enjoy her childhood. She’s been a big sister/mother for most of her life and Aang is so damn enlightened and happy with life and makes her have fun too. He’s more than just an immature boy who rides an air scooter.
What’s crazier is that Josh barely appeared throughout most of the show, a few episodes in Season 1, but especially during mid Season 2 in which the whole triangle storyline began, he only appeared in 1 episode out of 30. And he wasn’t even mentioned whenever he was absent. So how tf did he all of a sudden know about everything that happened with the triangle is BEYOND me? He basically ignored Maya’s infatuation and advances towards him until Ski Lodge, when he manipulated Maya into playing “the long game”, which is just selfish and unrealistic. Man, just overall bad writing
I have two main points to make (saying it now I totally agree with everything you said in this video): 1. Riley was the only person to ever think that Maya wasn't herself. Everyone else seemed happy that Maya was growing and changing and accepting the positive influences in her life and finally applying that in her own world. It wasn't until Riley said something that everyone believed that Maya just wasn't being true to herself. Riley seems to have so much power over the people in her life because no one thinks she can do any wrong -- she's a good student, she's always sunshine and rainbows, she loves her friends, and always shows honesty in her relationships. Maya, because she comes from a broken home and is known to have struggled a lot growing up, doesn't instill trust in others: everyone believes it is in Maya's nature to act out. These people, who have essentially helped raise Maya, suddenly don't believe that the lessons they taught her and the love they showed her meant anything only because Riley thought it was weird that Maya wasn't a 13-year-old troublemaker anymore. I think this is honestly my biggest issue with the show. They wanted SO badly to have Riley and Maya be polar opposites and in order to keep it that way, they needed to somehow come up with an explanation that made Maya that same rebel again. The writers never wanted Maya to grow, they just wanted to make some lazy, empty lessons of the power of friendship all while staying true to yourself. How is improving NOT staying true to yourself? 2. That Lucas was it for Riley purely because he was a "nice guy". It honestly upset me that they decided to change Lucas completely from his past. Only twice do we ever see "Texas Lucas" come back: when Riley is getting bullied, and when Zay is. That's IT. For a show that tries so hard to convince us that Maya will forever and always be a rebel, they sure do drill it into our heads that Lucas has changed for the better. If Lucas can change, why is it such a bad thing that Maya does too? I know that Lucas went farther than Maya ever has given that he got expelled, but Maya has done NUMEROUS bad things. It builds up. If Maya is being told that she can't be good because her best friend Riley already is, what's stopping her from going too far as well? And on that point, why is there a need to completely invalidate Lucas's feelings and convince the audience that he must like Riley because Maya reminds him too much of his past? Why was there a need to make Lucas such a goodie two shoes? Why can't Maya bring back some of Lucas's fun side instead of Riley constantly putting him on a pedestal and forcing him to stay perfect? I think this point bleeds into another problem of mine which is one you touched on. This show was all about people changing people but it never showed actual, concrete proof of this EVER happening. Lucas vehemently disapproved of Maya's actions and desire for adventure. Lucas never let loose and never got to feel anything for Maya because it was now in his nature to only seek out goodness. Maya wasn't allowed to change her ways because the show says there can only be one nice person in a relationship. Riley lived in Rileytown 24/7 because she couldn't learn from her best friend that life can be unforgiving and cruel. No one ever changed and everyone had to fit into the stereotypes the writers created from the start. Another thing: I fully believe Lucas was convinced that he never liked Maya even thought the chemistry was always there. When Maya told Lucas she knew his decision and that it was Riley either way, Lucas was led to believe that there was no way he liked the real Maya. With that statement, Lucas is basically being told that he only ever liked Riley anyway and that was that. I think it adds to the theory that Riley was acting in her own self interest when "trying to bring Maya back". Riley must've known that Lucas suddenly liking Maya was linked to Maya losing herself. RIGHT after the episode where Maya comes back, Lucas suddenly has a final decision. Lucas never got a chance to explore his feelings for Maya because no one ever gave him time to do so and Riley never let Maya believe she truly liked Lucas. Anyways. I doubt anyone is gonna read this since im 8 months late but this show has been on my mind recently and I wanted to get my frustrations out somewhere lol
More on the gaslighting: Maya changing her hair and clothes could just be part of growing up and trying out new things. It's not unheard of, maybe she mimicked Rileys style cause they're best friends so it was the only frame of reference she felt comfortable branching into at the time and Rileys style in general was just more feminine which is not that unique, just different from Mayas. And not getting into trouble? She's in a healthier place now, her relationship with her mom has vastly improved and Shawn is basically her dad. Why WOULD she get into trouble when the show itself pointed to her troubled home life as the source for her getting into trouble. Being mischievous might be a part of her but that doesn't have to be something that results in her getting detention.
Very good! I wish someone else on the show had supported Maya's changes for the better instead of shooting them down and dissing it (and helping Riley sabotage Maya possibly because deep down she might have known Maya was more intelligent and likable than her). Alas, Cory (Maya's teacher), Shawn (Maya's future stepfather) and even Katy (Maya's mother) didn't say a peep to support Maya just at best were totally passive re Riley's sabotaging or, at worst, cosigned it.
Also not to mention, there was literally an entire episode where Shawn wanted her to change her wardrobe because he wanted better for her or something. He literally bought her a whole closet full of clothes that are different than what she usually wears.
riley is making me so uncomfortable with how she felt the need to call out maya so much? all in front of their friends. like you said, this is NOT her place, but ig they all feel “close enough” to just ignore common boundaries like that…
it makes me so uncomfortable how josh is talking to the both of them, but especially how it seems like he’s trying to push his narrative of how he wants maya to feel onto her and this poor girl just goes with it bc it’s easier than believing she truly likes lucas and would hurt riley if she got with him (not to mention possibly thinking she’s not good enough for him) also, as s fan of poly relationships, if they were more mature about it i feel like it couldve worked. it felt weird when you showed clips of maya getting really obviously jealous (“ you smelled her hair 😡”) bc from what ive seen i felt like on the surface shes more secure than that. i havent watched the show much but i feel like riley is the nice somewhat insecure one and maya is the spunky confident one (at least until getting under that exterior).
@@selenejohnston7812 i understand being hurt but i will never understand outing your friend’s feelings, especially when they havent even come to terms with it themselves. just really awful to do no matter how youre feeling
It seemed to me that Riley manipulated Maya and the others to think that Riley was entitled to know ALL their feelings & secrets and even call them out in front of their classmates to prove that they were 'close enough' instead of considering boundaries or much less discretion. It seemed to me that Riley believed that any attempts by others to have boundaries or resist sharing confidences with her showed they were disloyal & bad people who didn't 'trust' her and that she did all she could to guilt them from thinking they deserved to POSSESS boundaries as far as Riley was concerned ( outing Maya's feelings, pressuring Maya to forgive her deadbeat dad when Maya clearly wasn't ready, and throwing a full blown tantrum over Lucas not having shared having been previously expelled with Riley,etc.).
You do know if he didn't that could have drove a wedge between all of them right? He liked and cared about them both, so the logical thing to do is to let the bash it out, let the friends come to agreement. In that way he wouldn't be held accountable for whatever happened and they would have an understanding without resentment.
Right like.. Farkle and Isadora Smackle were kind of cute, but it didn't really make that much sense to me. He went so well with Riley. Farkle was a clear Cory Matthews, so for them to not have Riley pair with him in the follow up/sequel to Boy Meets World, it seemed strange. Riley wasn't completely a Topanga, but her Cory was Farkle. It always aggitated me that they shoved her off with Lucas when they got on more like siblings.
@@ihavenodesiretocreateahandle completely agree. it's like the scriptwriters were too busy caught up w all the 10 yo stans' lucaya and rucas wars to focus on creating solid and well-written relationships
@@hopefulpanther2292 Mhm. And it's funny because I got a slight Shawn/Angela vibe from Maya and Lucas. They picked fun at eachother, had their issues, Lucas/Angela helped Maya/Shawn a lot. I will never forgive them for what they did to Shawn in GMW smh. I don't hate Katy but that relationship was SO forced. I feel while Lucas wasn't completely an Angela, and Maya was almost completely a Shawn - I think Lucas is Maya's Angela, and her Angela deserves someone as understanding and caring as Shawn/Maya can be. For the sequal of a series where they seem to have a quad with similarities to the prequal's quad, they didn't do the pairings anywhere near as well. Would it not have been nice and cute for a little new generation Cory/Topanga and Shawn/Angela, but in a fresh way? They weren't _identical_ to the prequal's mains, but the same dynamic was there. It really just seems like a huge loss.
Tbh I think Riley was just selfish and straight up a bad friend😭 She outed Maya’s feelings , but as soon as Farkle was going to do it to her it was a problem. Also, the yays when Riley thought Lucas chose her made me so mad pls. Not even just that, but SOOO many of her actions show she doesn’t consider Maya, just herself😫 Lucas doesn’t deserve Maya either 🗣️🗣️
@@njyawndra8609 and at least she admitted that and started to mature and grow as a person while the others all gaslit her into thinking that was a bad thing😐
All of them were shitty sometimes and toxic, not just riley, both were bad friends to eachother sometimes and Lucas was awful for playing with them, he kept them both 😂😂
Riley's like a teen Marie Barone on 'Everybody Loves Raymond'- and I'll bet Marie's rents and peers ALSO had told her she was this wonderful and perfect saint despite her bullying and sabotaging them like Riley did!
Although the thread and you argue otherwise, I personally have always seen people hate on Riley lmao so I think it’s simply based on who you’re seeing talk about the show. By my perspective, this isn’t that unpopular of an opinion, clearly.
I agree! Riley sucks and the fact that she was so happy when Lucas broke up with maya and used mayas advice as a manipulation tactic in order for her to get what she wanted
43:17 SO I FOUND OUT THAT IT WAS CONFIRMED THAT LUCAS ACTUALLY CHOOSE MAYA HERE, you can even tell in his facial expression how confused he was when Maya told him he picked Riley, bc he chose Maya. Just wanted to input that
I can't believe that I was gaslighted by a Disney show, as a kid I didn't see anything wrong with the Maya being Riley plot line (except for the fact that apparently this means she has to get rid of all the excellent clothes Shawn bought her, which I'm still upset about).
Yeah, I wish Shawn had told Riley that it was Maya's call if she liked that clothes and Maya's MOTHER's call if Maya got to keep the clothes and since Riley was not either of them so she needed to REALLY back off (and not just about the clothes but dissing Maya for changing for the better)! Oh, and let's not forget that Riley refused to let anyone else think they could be happy on their own unless SHE somehow had engineered their 'happiness'.
I called it out when it aired and I got shut down for it by the fandom. I can't wait until we talk about the propaganda episode making farkle dress up like a soviet while season later he finds out his grandpa was in the holocaust. Or how they cried about sexism bc Farkle the nerdy science boy took the lead in the science experiment over riley when she's literally never expressed any interest in science.
The biggest turn off for anyone about joshaya is the fact that right after that convo Maya admits "she doesn't want a nice guy" it's telling the audience that he is not good for her
It's treated as a throw away line but shouldn't be. It's basically saying that while her friends were trying to help her, they actually reverted her back to a place where she doesn't feel like she deserves anything nice. Lucas was her hope.
Agreed! Josh seems like a perfectly nice guy, so that should mean that Maya doesn’t like him anymore, right(if she doesn’t like “nice guys”)? Well, apparently not, because she still likes him. Why? Because he’s obviously too old for her, and she knows it. It makes him “bad” in a way, which allows her to let herself like him.
Not to mention he’s Riley’s uncle and she’s her best friend and if they get married she’s gonna be her aunt 😑 which is mad weird because her and Riley are basically family and act like sisters since they were little 👀
Age and maturity are still different, she may think more maturely but technically their age are still more important in societal standards and wouldn’t be acceptable
@@tofusuns896 This isn't about if she really was more mature or not. What we're talking about it's that this is a phrase predators often use to lure kids into believing they're both "in the same level". And it's scary to see it "normalized" on a kid's show that claims to be "teaching morals"
The scene where Riley self-righteously accuses Maya of “becoming” her is absolutely horrid. I can’t believe Riley so confidently said she preferred Maya when she was an impulsive and abrasive person, especially since she knows what Maya’s family life is like. Riley was basically gatekeeping being a good person even though she’s not even a good person herself.
@@wardarcade7452What’s sad about it is that Maya probably found comfort in dressing like Riley and doing her hair like Riley, and trying to be more like her. Riley is her biggest source of comfort and happiness, and her change into “becoming” her was probably inspired by her admiration for Riley’s good qualities. Riley condemning her for that and making her feel crazy and bad for doing it must’ve been confusing and super upsetting for Maya :(
@@generalginx Exactly! Since Riley had constantly refused to consider that anyone else could be happy or content unless SHE somehow had intervened, then this virtually spelled out that Riley DID NOT WANT Maya to be happy because SHE [Riley] hadn't approved it! BOOO! P.S. This also showed that Riley's so-called 'good qualities' were surface and fake and beneath it all she was a mean and controlling person- especially to those she most loudly claimed to be the BFF!
The craziest part of all of this was that all the parents in this show did little to try monitor/change this situation despite how inappropriate all of this was for the girls and Lucas.
You KNOW this triangle is a lot when it takes almost an hour to talk about just SOME of your feelings about it I think Zay said something like "The triangle really took a lot out of us" I kinda liked Girl Meets world, (def not as much as Boy Meets World) but I think Andi Mack did a better job at what GMW was TRYING to do: Tell stories with compelling lessons to kids without being so heavy-handed
One of the things that bugs me the most about Lucas and Riley was the fact that they were so similar. It was basically like they were just dating the boy/girl version of themselves. Lucas and Riley wouldn't have worked out long term, somewhere down the line they would've notice that they can't have the foundation of their relationship be their similarities. I think the line in the episode "Girl Meets Beliefs" perfectly sums up why their relationship doesn't work. "So we completely agree with each other." "It looks like it." "So why do I need you?" "I don't know." That line to me foreshadows the future failure of their relationship. They're to similar to each other that they wouldn't have worked. Lucas tries so hard to be this perfect good guy to try and make up for the person he was in Texas. And it always seemed like to me that Riley fell for that version of him. Lucas wanted Riley, someone who liked this perfect image of him and thought he could do no wrong. But what he needed was Maya, someone who would help him accept his past and help him fully move on from it rather than try and out run it. They would also balance each other out so well. Lucas would keep Maya out of trouble and Maya would remind Lucas of who he really is, both the good and bad parts of him. Maya was someone who accepts both sides of him and not only like this picture perfect image of him. She liked him both "the good guy" version of him, and the "bad boy" version of him. Lucas needed someone to remind him that he wasn't perfect and that it was ok to make mistakes and to learn from them. On the otherhand, Riley put him on this pedestal that he wasn't allowed to get down from and it always seemed like Riley was more in love with the idea of Lucas rather than Lucas himself. The second she realizes he's not perfect she goes crazy and says they aren't friends anymore. ( In the beginning of the 2nd season when Zay first comes to the school) and yes it was a big secret that Lucas should've told her but Maya didn't treat him any differently. It always felt like Riley was his fan and not his girlfriend. I feel like both Riley and Lucas needed someone to challenges their beliefs. Maya being able to help Lucas accept that he wasn't perfect and that it was okay not to be. And Riley needed someone who wasn't always on her side. That's why her and Maya work as best friends, their complete oppisites. I feel like Riley needed someone like Farkle, someone who could challenge her academically while also her being able to help him understand love and feelings. Idk this it all just my opinion.
Sorry I agree with top one but Farkle and Smackle were amazing and the best couple on the show in all ways and one of the best I've seen in tv show period. They are so balanced and work so well together not just because they're alike.
The gaslighting of Maya was always something painful for me. I wasn't a Lucya shipper, but how everyone said her feels were not valid just because they were not what they wanted from her really ingrained in my head that if I'm not feeling or acting the way others want me too, then I'm doing something wrong. I'm still trying to undo that to this day.
@@13animeholic1314 its still weird?? idk why yall like to justify a known grooming tactic/sign thats very much used in real life, its so disturbing that disney included this idea in a kids show where they can easily be conditioned into seeing that as normal or ideal
I actually think Joshaya was just another victim of the love triangle. Before the ski lodge episode they had a relationship that was pretty healthy with him rebuffing her advances because he doesn't want to take advantage. It's only in the ski lodge episodes and the ones after that that there's a weird grooming undertone. Before the ski lodge he never tried to tell maya why she was doing anything or how to act or feel. He didn't try to influence her decisions in any way. The only thing he continued to do was tell her she couldn't date him. I think (if the show went on for that long) if they gave them the proper time and development it could have turned into something healthy and appropriate but they had to have someone be the mouthpiece for the writers take on what maya was thinking and feeling and in doing so made josh kind of creepy.
I agree. he had boundaries and saw maya as a kid but then the writers turned him weird. although if you think about it, he gets the lucas treatment because I remember when Riley and maya sneaks off to his college, the college girls basically tell him to give maya a chance and that they'll spread rumours about him if he don't
I LOVED Maya and Josh's relationship before I was literally rooting for them because she liked him and he was a man about it telling her no because of the age differences. But afterwards yes yes it did become creepy.
THANK YOU! It was all very out of character, the writing just did not hold up and wasn't consistent. They were hellbent on everyone telling her "she was Riley". I got no creepy vibes from this ship, they were really sweet and he always put up healthy boundaries.
14:22 This scene was very strange to me since I saw it the first time & I think I know why now. It comes off, as If Riley is Lucas Mom or teacher. While she cleans his face, she teaches him a lesson about nicknames. "Well, there you go." Totally a nice mom thing to say, after her son told her something about his day.
it reminds me of the yearbook episode where maya asks riley to show her dark side face and both maya and lucas go "awww" just like topanga does later in the episode.
maya's ending was kind of sad to me, they like convinced her that her feelings were invalid, and that she lost herself, only for her and lucac to become what feels like a worse version of the no-chemistry-beginning-of-show relationship they had before. unfortunate, and josh was just kind of weird.
I agree! Maya and Lucas wound up burying their feelings for each other and spending virtually all their time hovering around Riley! I can't imagine ANY teens would consider just hovering around one pal a satisfying life!
the lucaya-rucas debate was the first and most intense ship war i’ve ever been through. probably because they had kids who hadn’t even reached double digits going to war for smurfvlogs. by name dropping him i’m obvious labeling myself as a childhood lucaya shipper- they’re still my favorite lucas ship, but rilaya’s my favorite maya & riley ship. i also haven’t watched the show since it ended though, so i’m not super fresh on anything
The thing that makes this triangle different than other Disney Channel ships is because all 3 involved are main characters. The two girls being best friends, and one of them being the typical Disney set up with the guy from the start. And we just watched Riley have a little crush on Lucas. But they completely broke the status quo in Girl Meets Texas with Maya liking Lucas. Maya became too vulnerable and things were just awkward (which makes sense since the real status quo of the show is about Riley and Maya’s friendship). And Disney Channel doesn’t like to break the status quo of their show (which explains why Teddy took back Spencer despite him cheating). Making Lucas choose either one of them would make it near-impossible for them to just go back to the status quo of Riley’s crush on Lucas and her best friendship with Maya. So they just came up with a bad excuse with Josh “explaining” that Maya only liked Lucas to see if he was good for Riley. Now we can go back to the real status quo of Riley and Maya’s friendship, no sadness. But they can’t go back to the whole Riley’s crush on Lucas, since things are just too different now. My solution is that Riley and Farkle were gonna end up together (the real Cory and Topanga of Girl Meets World), Maya with Zay, and plot twist Lucas and Smackle:)
@@brandontrammel4581 Farkle and Smackle were fine, but I think they’ll reach the same dead end Riley and Lucas will eventually meet, where they realize they aren’t truly growing together. I think Lucas and Smackle have the potential to help each other even further, Lucas helps her be more “normal” and she helps him be more unique. Riley is too similar to Lucas for them to grow, while Maya is too different than him for them to truly grow. Riley and Farkle have helped each other in many ways though, they support, understand, and challenge each other in ways not even Maya can do for Riley. More on Riley and Farkle: In Girl Meets Rah Rah, everyone didn’t wanted Riley to just quit, and Farkle says, “I’m here because I believe in Riley”. In Girl Meets Stem, Riley challenges Farkle’s typical scientists beliefs, and he challenges her view on men. In Girl Meets Belief, Riley and Maya are too different that they don’t grow, while Riley and Lucas are too similar that they don’t grow, but Riley and Farkle are similar and different that they challenge and help each other. We see him further challenging her in Girl Meets New Year, which she even says he’s right about. He was the first person to know she was getting bullied in Girl Meets Rileytown, and she was the first person to see him when he got bullied in Girl Meets Flaws. In Girl Meets Permanent Record, Lucas just called himself and Riley losers, Maya, Cory, Topanga, and everyone couldn’t help Riley’s grade, but a talk with Farkle inspires her to keep going.
@@growingupwithdisney I understand but going into it objectively you see how much not just chemistry but communication etc. Farkle and Smackle more than not just Farkle and Riley but everyone. They literally were like connected not just because of their love for learning but just knowing each other inside and out. It was almost like they shared the same brain and heart. Also they were beyond the most mature and connected and definitely would last. They even showed the maturity of understanding attraction like Farkle and Smackle found Lucas and Riley attractive and liked them as friends but that didn't mean you just try and put it simply jump somebody else bones. Like you can be attracted and care about someone but not be in love with them. For example Smackle understanding and openly saying how attractive Lucas is and valuing him as a friend but being fully in love with Farkle. Also Farkle being mature enough to not be jealous. I think this was the only part of the couple drama Disney did right. Instead of going with the troupe nerdy girl goes for kind jock or female best friend finally sees her best male friend who's liked her they changed it and made it more realistic and better. For example Family matters, Steve and Mira had the same amazing chemistry and connection Farkle and Smackle did on every level but they went with Steve getting with Laura just because and it was forced and horrible tho I liked Laura as a person as a friend for Steve. They literally had the same relationship Riley and Farkle do. Lastly it's been nice getting to know your perspective.
This video ignited an anger I forgot I had while watching this show so long ago. How dare all those characters gaslight and manipulate Maya like that, at every turn telling her what she feels and what to do. She never even got a chance to explore her feelings and herself on her own without Riley’s interference and I’m sorry I do not at all believe she had good intentions. Riley sucks. Shes so toxic and manipulative and that scene with Maya actually hurts me so bad. Terrible.
This was one of the most annoying shows I've ever watched. I was a literal child and even I was frustrated watching this show 😭I didn't have a strong ship I supported until the Texas episodes and then I became a strong Lucaya shipper after. Rucas being an endgame was a disappointment and I wished we actually got to see who Lucas would've chosen rather than Maya taking herself out of the picture (Even if he chooses Riley). But, I wanted to see them as an official couple and how they can persuade me to like them together. They acted exactly how they were when they were friends. I wanted at least SOMETHING from Rucas but we got absolutely no content. BOOOOOOO 🫳🏽🍅🍅🍅 Now Josh I have a personal vendetta with. What an absolutely unnecessary character. Not only did he ruin my ship. But to make him, out of all people, tell Maya that she was testing out Lucas for Riley is SICK. I had to compose myself watching that scene again where he literally manipulates a teenager💀 I remember watching this with my aunt (who was also a Disney channel fan) and she couldn't even watch the whole thing. The whole "Maya is becoming Riley" plot was just frustrating itself. Like, this girl told you she is still herself and everyone is telling her otherwise. Like what the hell is this unnecessary intervention? I wanted Maya to win SO BAD. The whole triangle plot was awful. But, nothing compares to Shawn and Angela not being together anymore. Omg that pissed me off too much lemme stop 💀😭
that whole conversation is just riley saying to maya "you are selfish, and mean, and you get bad grades, and you shouldn't like / date a boy who is nice to you" girl what????
peyton's comments about the show make it pretty clear that he was 100% team lucaya. he and sabrina were also the closest on set, so they were more comfortable around each other and he's talked about how the chemistry just came naturally and the audience loved it. so it makes sense that what on paper is supposed to be lucas liking riley over maya and being forced with maya comes across as him genuinely liking maya (i disagree about him not having feelings for her before texas) and reluctantly choosing riley to appease her if that's how peyton felt.
You know Riley must really not like the character of Charlie, because I just realized that she says that she'll always say that Lucas was her first boyfriend, but her and Charlie went on literal dates, like they were dating. You could argue that they didn't go far enough into it for her to consider him her boyfriend, but I feel that's a bit of a plothole.
@That Nerdy girl Tarini Charlie was actually sweet but I felt like they made him creepy at certain points so that we would root for Rucas. It didn't happen, bestie. I always thought they would have been a really sweet couple and that if Riley had given him the time of day, she would have had someone who was devoted to her the same way she would be devoted to them. I love Lucas but if he really liked Riley as much as he always said he did, Maya would have never crossed his mind. But that's my two cents on it.
@filmzbyclau I guess you could say Lucas was her first boyfriend then, but going on one date doesn't really classify two people are dating, in my opinion. It was like when my classmates tried to convince me that I agreed to go on a date with someone, so that means that we're dating. I think if Riley and Lucas agreed to and went on more than two dates, then their dating, but the characters probably see it differently.
@filmzbyclau Okay, but it was established that by New Years, Riley and Charlie had either gone on multiple dates, or they already considered themselves dating. But again, I can understand if in Riley's eyes she doesn't see Charlie as a boyfriend, because she was never fully into him. He was just a distraction from Lucas.
Charlie and Riley would've worked out way better. Charlie was willing to give Riley that dating experience, including growing onto her habits so he could pick a date that would be perfect for Riley. Charlie only picked the movie date because he wanted Riley to be comfortable, and she was. He brought her favorite snack, watched a movie she wanted to watch, and took her back home safely. When Riley went on a date with Lucas, they couldn't even speak to each other. They can't see each other as more than friends, but they still shut down any opportunity at a better and healthier relationship for each other.
I feel like they had a really good opportunity to portray a healthy break-up to bestfriends arc with Riley and Lucas, but they were too caught up in the shipping wars between fans to care about a healthy, realistic plot line. Riley and Lucas had that middle school two-week relationship kind of vibe; more of an infatuation than anything. Considering it's such a common and sometimes stressful situation, it would've been so interesting to see a show aimed at young teens which depicted something like that in a healthy way. It would have also given the characters more opportunity to grow, maybe could have even given lucaya or Maya and Riley a chance I also wouldn't have complained about an actually healthy poly romance; that would be so wild (/pos) to see
I think what is frustrating about Riley and Maya's relationship is that they had both positive and wonderful traits that they could have learned from each other and instead they focused on the negatives. Maya is headstrong, confident with who she physically, and can be the best friend if given the opportunity. Riley is incredibly nice, confident with who she is emotionally, and can be a wonderful friend to anyone, especially if we are focusing on season 1. It is so frustrating that they used Riley's "nice" attitude to manipulate Maya and everyone else in her favor. With Maya, they used her positive growth as a negative thing. It is just so frustrating.
The whole "Maya became Riley" plot was one of the most convoluted TV arcs I have ever seen, and I grew up watching soaps and telenovelas. It makes no sense and is just sad thinking about the experience from Maya's pov. Back in the day I was a Lucaya shipper, and the plot made me so angry. The writers turned something ordinary (two friends liking the same person) into something that doesn't happen in real life. People don't "become" other people to see if their friends' crushes are good enough for them. The Texas episodes got it right that a kid like Maya tries to hide her romantic and guilty feelings by teasing. Light and flirty banter is easy to hide behind when it's hard to be upfront. Rebellious kids can calm down as they mature. The writers didn't need to make it more complicated than that, and the rest of the show--and Maya's character most of all--really suffered under this bad writing. What they should've done was just have Maya admit her feelings, have a rift in Maya and Riley's friendship as she worked through her guilt, and have neither of the girls choose Lucas after coming to the realization that boys will come and go and should never break the two of them apart. Friends choosing friends over temporary middle school feelings is a more meaningful story and is one that their audiences could have actually learned from. Instead, we got this big old mess of a story that the writers were too afraid to explore the real life nuances of, perhaps due to the channel that it aired on. This should've been an ABC Family show, not Disney Channel, and then maybe we could've actually seen this kids grow into issues that preteens and teenagers learn to deal with as they grow into young adults.
That would have been great to have seen but I guess the writers couldn't have Riley even momentarily not win so they had to do that who gaslighting thing of sabotaging Maya's positive changes and everyone praising Riley for doing so! ARGHH!
This show really solidified itself as a trashfire mess when it fumbled the bag with the love triangle. I’ve never been the biggest fan of this show, (it’s honestly one of, if not my least favorite TV show), but the Texas special actually got me hooked on it for a little while. I thought it was super interesting that the writers were flipping the audience’s expectations by putting the best friend and the main love interest together. Then of course I remembered this was GMW writing, so when they made up some lame excuse to put Maya with a college student (cus apparently grooming is cool on the Disney Channel), and Lucas with Riley, I checked out completely.
@@sillygooseygirl She is 15 and he is 18. That is Sophomore and Senior age gap most of the time. Both HS age. Which again proves you do not now what Grooming is. One it is not a one time thing Grooming is what we all a pattern of behavior and abuse. And its done with the express point of engaging in abusive activities such as sex with a minor, etc. Also Lucas is 16 in Season 3 and so would hit 18 before her and thus be "A grown ass man" dating a minor. Guess he is a groomer huh?
The creators of the show really showed how Riley and Maya's environments and pasts can effect the way they handle hardships. I've always thought of Riley as more of the "dictator" of the group, since whenever someone in the group has to make a hard decision, they always have to consider Riley in some way. For example, Maya constantly has to shut down her emotions and personal development because Riley has trouble processing change. When Maya was getting better grades and stopped acting out, Riley saw this and said that Maya was turning into her. Maya may have adapted to some of Riley's habits (her style for instance, they way she talked and acted around others), but she was never fully turning into Riley, she literally just became more of a stable person, something Riley just couldn't handle. Riley clearly isn't used to change, while Maya is. Riley lives in a stable environment, and has a healthy household that hasn't really changed in years, Whilst Maya expects change because of her constantly changing and unstable living environment, and her "broken" household. Despite Riley's stable household, she doesn't have that much control over her life, while Maya does. The only thing holding Maya back happens to be Riley, who isn't open to Maya developing any further.
I’ve never seen this show before so when you kept referencing “Maya becomes Riley” or “Maya was Riley at that point in time” I was so confused thinking like “oh wow I didn’t realize this show had body-swapping supernatural storylines” 😂 made more sense after you showed the clip of them talking about it, but made me lol
Honestly even with the explanation, the Maya becomes Riley plot is really confusing and kind of stupid. I couldn’t imagine enduring it for years, the writers definitely dragged it!
I never could understand the shipping that they wanted in the show. They went back and forth to the point where I wondered if they had the same writers season to season 😅
i think it’s a no brainer that lucaya was the better relationship (robbed of having a proper arc but nonetheless,) riley always romanticized lucas in the same way that maya romanticized josh. for him to suddenly reinsert himself into the show and double down on maya no longer being herself because she no longer self destructed as a projection of her internal angst was.. wild as hell. maya and lucas were real. maya didn’t feel like she had to obtain him because the “real maya” went for things she couldn’t have (josh,) she just liked lucas. lucas liked being challenged and having someone who accepted him in full, who wasn’t intimidated at the slightest chance of being more than one-note (riley,) the show’s writing can really be blamed for how much they nosedived and weren’t allowed room to breathe because of the sudden “maya is riley” arc, as well as lucas not really having the choice everyone pretended he did.
My biggest issue with Rucas was that to make it a thing they had to complete tear down Maya. The moment the writers saw that Lucas & Maya were the better ship they should've just switched gears but I get that they wanted Riley to have that same "Cory/Topanga" endgame. They could have easily done that with Farkle or with Zay. I also think Lucas & Maya could've probably been that couple that just works and no one understands why. Would they have lasted? Definitely not but I do think they would think of each other fondly. Riley and Lucas though I think they would just try hard to make something work that clearly isn't working.
Gosh thinking about this triangle never fails to make me so passionately angry. This came at a perfect time cause about a month ago i rewatched some of the pinnacle triangle episodes to see how I'd feel about everything now and...ya I feel pretty much the same. The Josh and 'Maya turning into Riley' thing pisses me off so so much. And when the post ski lodge episodes ended, even I was upset about the lack of rucas content..and I was lucaya shipper. Like, if you're going to put us and the characters through all of that, the least you can do is give decent couple content afterwards. But nope. And then they pretty much break up at the end of the series and never resolve that by having one more scene together. But out of everything, I'm most upset about how Maya got treated throughout the triangle. She deserved so much better.
( I think she just finished discussing it at 44:05 ) But I’ve always found it very telling that when Maya says Lucas chose Riley no matter who he tells, and Riley starts cheering and is all “Oh I’m so sorry Maya but YAY!!!”… the way Lucas looked at Riley in disgust/disapproval already told me that he probably did choose Riley, but seeing how she acted in that moment made him start to question that. And then at Ski Lodge, Lucas was going to pick Maya but Maya was already telling Lucas to go tell Riley he loved her… so he did. Peyton talked both on twitch & in a Discord Q&A about the Lucaya triangle and pretty much said that the writers always wanted Lucas & Riley, but that the fans picked up with the chemistry on he and Sabrina and their characters- and the writers did too so they went with it. Sometimes, at least in this series, Peyton has some of the most telling but quick/subtle expressions.
I found that moment really telling about Riley's character too. She's supposed to be this good person who looks out for her friends or whatever ... yet Riley was the one who announced Maya even had feelings for Lucas - which Maya had no intention of acting on - and Riley is so quick to cheer for herself that Lucas wants her, even though she has to know that it caused Maya a lot of pain to accept that by the tone of her voice/her facial expression as she says it. Riley rubbing it in Maya's face shows her true colors, in my opinion, which is interesting because I think the writers intended it to be a throwaway comedic moment and it ended up actually saying a lot about Riley's character.
@@hnichole seriously i just really hated Riley's character. Riley was a character who puts a boy over her best friend and in turn does not care about Maya's feelings and basically gaslights Maya into thinking she is turning into Riley. Maya was a character that puts her friendship with Riley first and would do anything to not let Riley get hurt even if it means suppressing her feelings.
I remember thinking it was so mean of the writers to write off Maya's feelings as if they were just a product of Maya "cosplaying" as Riley ONCE. Also everyone worried that she was... improving? Ever heard of CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT?! I really hated that, why would they want Maya to fail so bad?
I was so team rucas back then and was conflicted by riarkle, but honestly, I didn’t like how rucas succeeded at the expense of Mayas character, and I still don’t. And because of this, I don’t even buy into the triangle anymore. Maya stopped getting into trouble, started getting good grades, and bettering herself all on her own, which was all Riley had wanted. I have never bought into the Maya becoming Riley bit. As she said, there was nothing wrong with them both liking a nice guy, and I liked the idea of Lucaya alot more when it was Maya hiding her feelings for Lucas to protect Riley. Definitely think Lucas and Maya had more chemistry, but I think alot of that had to do with the fact that Peyton was 17 and Rowan was 14. I always found Riley and Lucas to be more compatible because Lucas wanted that fresh start and Riley was able to push him to become the person he wanted to be, but I don’t buy into either ship now and I just liked Riarkle and Zaya
it was so weird that Riley thought maya was becoming her by being a better person. as a best friend, why wouldn't you want your bestie to improve and become a better person? it felt like Riley could only be in their friendship if maya stayed destructive
For some reason I was called back to looking up Girl Meets World and now I'm mad all over again about how Maya was treated all througout this show. The writers did all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince us Maya and Lucas were never supposed to be together and in turn just created a convulated incomprehensible pathetic excuse of a plot. Everyone gaslighting Maya basically symbolizes the writers gaslighting their audience. And the conclusion to Maya's side of the triangle being that she doesnt actually want a "nice guy" is INCREDIBLY FREAKING TOXIC. AND THEY ACTUALLY PUT THAT IN A KIDS SHOW. WHY WOULD YOU TELL KIDS THAT ITS OK TO GO AFTER A "NOT NICE GUY" (which in this case is a literal groomer)
It might just be because I'm currently watching Boy Meets World but it feels like the whole Riley/Maya/Lucas triangle is paralelling the Eric/Jack/Rachel love triangle in some ways especially with the school dance episode with Eric and Jack being present. Also it's funny to me how much Girl Meets World tried to convince us that Riley was the new Cory when she had so much more in common with her uncle Eric.
Actually I remember the writer on twitter saying that Riley was like the new Eric & Auggie was Cory (especially with his little relationship with Ava meant to mirror Cory & Topanga).
One of the biggest problems of girl meets world in my opinion is that when given a beautifully complex and superbly acted character such as Maya in the “secondary character/best friend” role, you just can’t bring yourself to care about the supposed to be main character, Riley. Unfortunately the way she’s written just comes off as shallow and superficial in comparison. Also Maya and Lucas had more chemistry from the start.
I think a big part of my problem with the show was that Riley regressed as a character while Maya developed as a character and got criticism for it. At the start, Riley was tied with Farkle for A's. She was super supportive of her friends. She recognized that she was insecure and overly worried about what other people thing of her. And the first season's episodes were about appreciating the people in your life, accepting that everyone has flaws, importance of helping others, and that there was no rush to grow up. And then the second season...starts with a lesson about appreciating the people in your life...then an episode about how they're not ready to be grown up...then a lesson about how people have flaws...right into an episode where "I like science" Riley doesn't know Pluto is a planet anymore. It's essentially the same lessons. Though the one on belief was kind of uncomfortable, especially when it made out that Riley and Lucas both believing in the same thing was a BAD thing? Like it really played it up like "wow, we both have beliefs...then what do we need each other for?" Like...what? And then again in Season 3, Girl Meets Jexica felt like Girl Meets Popular & Girl Meets Money and Girl Meets the Real World both reminded me of Girl Meets Crazy Hat & Girl Meets Her Monster is just getting Topanga's side off Girl Meets Father. Like they didn't seem to be learning anything? They kept getting the same lessons over and over and instead of growing, Riley became a caricature. Like she really went from being smart and good student, to "haha how funny she's so dumb she almost drowned while bobbing for apples because she didn't stand up". And then I feel like they did the opposite with Maya where they acted like the old her had been just a caricature. In the homework revolution episode, we see that Maya wasn't just starting a revolution to cause trouble, she did it because no one was home to help her. In the episode that she got a D, it wasn't that she didn't try. When she took the locket it wasn't just cause it was pretty, it was because of what it meant. All of her "acts of rebellion" were acts of expressing things that she was struggling with or that were hurting her. They were essentially cries for attention. She learned to talk it out, express it through art, or they were resolved. Acting like she just caused trouble for trouble's sake isn't accurate. And that's kind of what they do when they're like "oh you haven't cause trouble in a while, you must not be yourself". No, she just is happy and learning better coping mechanisms? But then again, I think the love triangle was dumb overall. Because I think they're dumb overall, as 90% of the time it's two people treating the person they supposedly care about like an object with no freewill that they can make choices for. Which is essentially what they do and I think there is even a scene where he's like "don't I have any say in this?" or "does anyone care what I think?" and they both say no.
Exactly. Cory was Shawn’s biggest cheerleader who wanted his best friend to succeed and live to his fullest potential. Half the time he even ignored Topanga because he knew that she was going to be great at anything she set her mind to and didn’t need the encouragement that Shawn did. Cory was always good at building people up to help them realize that they are better than they think they are even if he doesn’t realize it at first.
I was always pissed about how this triangle "ended," and for way too many reasons. No one ever talks about how Lucas felt or what his choice might be. Maya mentioned it in one episode, briefly, and Riley kept sidelining it because she wanted to tell Maya who she could and couldn't be. People even made fun of the fact that Lucas was just being tugged at both ends but never actually gave him a chance to speak up. And when he did, it always seemed like he grew more and more conflicted with the fact that he was always supposed to like Riley from the beginning but was genuinely attracted to Maya. He called her the "Blonde Beauty" to Zay before Zay even reached New York. That wasn't an accident. There's also the fact that when everyone decided that Maya was pretending to be Riley, no one ever asked Lucas if he only liked Maya during that time. (Which, if you look at the timelines, it's very clear that he was attracted to her BEFORE that). Lucas always looked disappointed that Maya pushed him towards Riley and I'll always stand by that fact. He also thought that he would be fighting for someone who might not even want him and Riley was a very safe option - she'd never wavered in her affections or called her own identity into crisis. (Maya was forced into that, but from his perspective, it seemed like an identity crisis). Now that I've said that, I always hated that Maya wasn't allowed to grow as a person. It's not like she became less funny or likeable - Riley just couldn't handle that Maya was starting to outgrow her. I think they would have always stayed friends, but Maya would have grown to see how toxic Riley was to her (always making fun of her, her grades, her homelife). Maya would eventually pull back and Riley didn't have the social skills to deal without her crutch. I know Riley may not have intentionally tried to cause a crisis in Maya, but Maya's character was only called into question when she didn't stop liking Lucas and started growing as a person. Lucas made Maya want to be better for _herself._ I will also never be over the fact that the person to "figure out the crisis" is Josh, a college boy who knows that this _fifteen_ _year_ _old_ once harbored a long standing crush on him. It's just wrong and creepy. There's also the fact that he doesn't spend time with Maya to any capacity and still feels like he can tell her how her life is going. And the moment Maya tried to argue, he just gaslighted her and "changed her perspective." And saying that they have a chance someday???? What a fucking creep. As much as I always loved Lucaya and will to my dying day, I would rather her be with Zay or literally anyone else. The Matthews family has really done a number on her, even without meaning to.
Commenting this as I'm having thoughts during the video: Another thing I wanted to say was that I agree with Maya not always being the reliable narrator during when she is pretending to be Riley or in general. Do I think she is a liar? No. But she has always had a skewered, cynical view of the world that makes her believe things that aren't always true (one of them being that she was the reason her father left/that she wasn't good enough and that's why he went and had another family). During when she pretended to be Riley, I do believe she had her best intentions when saying she felt like Lucas and Riley were siblings, but that it didn't necessarily come from the most honest place, as you said. There's also the fact that she's seen the relationship have a lot of weird, awkward, or poorly handled moments and personally doesn't think they're well suited for one another. A big point on this thought was that when Riley and Lucas were doing a project together, they couldn't make it work out. They were on the same page but they weren't going forward - they had to trade partners, Riley being with Farkle and Lucas with Maya. I always thought that was foreshadowing and I think Maya did too.
I also think that we need to call Maya out because you can also Blame Maya for always wanted to shelter Riley so that she never loses her optimism. The Riley protections squad, or whatever they called it was terrible for Riley and you can link that back as to why Riley felt that Maya had to be one way while she’s the other. Because Maya and everyone blocked Riley from actual growth and understanding
@@amariebloom we rarely saw Lucas's point of view. he was never a focus of the show until the love triangle. more signs pointed to him being much more interested in maya than riley the more we saw and learned of him. the boy barely got to make his own decision's about who he wanted to date so we'll never really know who he truly wanted.
@@nativenewyorker3144 speak for yourself while I agree that they could have done a better job at showing his pov, he did get time to show who he likes and I’m sorry to say it wasn’t maya!
I'm 100% sure that the writers decided to destroy Lucaya with the "she became Riley" plotline because they didn't want to upset the Joshaya shippers😃 The script: and then Josh goes ahead and mansplains it to Maya after being repeatedly gaslit by Riley and now she's saved🤩
Aint no way they tried to convince me Riley and Lucas were the new “Cory and Topanga” they did nothing and how fast they had those two meet and see each other and already bam a love story starts which took Cory and Topanga two damn seasons(which made it much better imo) and when they got together it was a rollercoaster and honestly Lucas’s iron dry personality doesn’t help the relationship either and I 100% stand by Riley and Farkle being a couple since he has a personality and would’ve been a better version of a new “Cory and Topanga” relationship
I actually really like the "Fight me, especially fight me!" scene because it kind of harkens back to the scene from the episode where Riley has a bully and Maya tells her to take it out on her (let's ignore the possible toxiness here) because it's the same idea of one of them losing themselves and them hashing it out-I just think the show dealt with the resolution poorly.
If Riley was telling Maya she wanted her to fight for Lucas I'd get it. They both have a habit of giving up for each other they'll still be friends but she has to want him. ( Despite him not being worth it)
I needed the kiss at the campfire and not an almost kiss. That’s what I didn’t like about Disney channel at this era…they wanted to do relationships but didn’t want to include hugs or kisses or anything really romantic. This show has a lot of wrong but I love this show, it’s a comfort show! ❤ thank you for this video and I love all of your videos!❤ 🥰🥰😊
I was always frustrated with Josh for “explaining” or (“mansplaing” as some would say) Maya’s feelings for Lucus when he is A. Too old for her (at this age) B. Isn’t present for majority of their relationships C. Manipulating her from the first time we see him interact with maya
I need to preference this by saying I believe the chemistry between Maya and Lucas was much better in the show BUT if they really wanted to go Riley/Lucas, I feel like it would've been much smarter to go with a plotline about how Maya is attracted to who Lucas used to be and the idea of this 'bad boy Lucas'. Most of the plot could still remain the same; Riley pushing away her feelings for Maya, Lucas very obviously always wanting to choose Riley but not wanting to hurt Maya, Maya not feeling comfortable with their 'date'. Instead of acting like Maya is never allowed to mature or improve herself without 'being Riley' they could've instead touched on how abandonment issues can lead you to fall for or chase 'unattainable' or 'unreal' people (bad boy Lucas, Josh, ect). Instead of just acting like her feeling never existed we could've had a mini plot about Maya realizing what she is doing and actively choosing to remove herself from the equation and focus on herself.
What kills me about the fact that Lucas chose Riley is you never see them at as a boyfriend and girlfriend they barely act as it when we saw that she was going to move to London and she was talking to her friends about it she said maybe they’ll be together but when it came to Maya she was like of course I mean I get that she and Maia have been through a lot and they are best friends forever, but she should at least try to say of course for her and Lucas because she’s liked him since forever and it seemed a little crazy and the relationship seemed forced and I would like to just say one thing about Maya, I ship both Lucas and Maya and Joshua Maya, better little less after watching Lucaya in this video, I have became a full lucaya fan
this show was a fever dream. glad to know it’s just as weird as i remember it. no one in this show talks like real people. who tf sees their friend straighten their hair and then says “you’ve turned into me for 2 years!” and how do they get away with all that shit in history class and why does cory act like a child so often?!? i know it’s fiction and not supposed to be 100% realistic, but it always threw me off when they had those big dramatic scenes where they’d talk about their feelings but then never actually say anything straightforward. shit’s entertaining tho 😂
no fr I could never get into this show bc none of the dialogue sounds like real people, i think the showrunners tried to make the characters sound deep and so intellekshual but all they ever do is talk about their feelings in circles.
also I hate how Riley basically says she needs Maya to make her be a good person. Like “I think of you as someone who wouldn’t let me say what i just said to you”?? That is toxic as hell, Riley needed Maya to be “bad” so she could be the “good” friend. Maya actually matured and grew through the show but Riley never did because she couldn’t handle not being special.
I think before the love triangle was officially introduced, I was definitely a Lucaya shipper just because of their chemistry, but then when the three of them couldn't sort things out, I didn't want any of them to be together lol. none of them were mature enough to say how they felt so at that point they just shouldn't be in that relationship. and on top of that, the fact that Maya wasn't allowed to mature or grow as a person without being gaslit was incredibly hard to watch. the fact that she was being berated for becoming better was just insaaaaaaaane to me.
Honestly, I don’t really agree with you about Lucas having more feelings for Riley than Maya. I feel like there was a whole side of Lucas’ character we never got to see because we see him through Riley’s eyes during the whole show, being a perfect charming good boy. I honestly think Maya understood him more and actually wanted him to be himself and not a version of himself she’d had created in his head. That’s why the Lucaya scenes are a 100 times better than the Rucas scenes and honestly any scene of the show, because I feel like only in those scenes was Lucas really himself. In the setup of the show I don’t really see any possible way we could’ve had a Lucaya endgame, except if they made the OBVIOUS decision to explore farkle and Riley’s relationship, but honestly it would’ve been super interesting to see them outside of their environnement. Like, we talk about Maya being gaslit a lot but my hot take is that Lucas did get his fair share of gaslighting too.
For real, like the first few episodes Lucas is just so blah, he’s like a cardboard cutout. But then the dance episode happens and Maya teases him and he just LIGHTS UP and becomes suddenly so much more dynamic and engaging and has…..gasp……character?? He teases her back and smirks and smiles in a natural way and it just makes every time we see him one on one with Riley, especially in season 1, feel like he’s suddenly not a person anymore, he’s just kinda a bland if sorta sweet guy.
The show: "people change people!!" Also the show: "noo maya you cant change, you're becoming Riley! This is not you! Turn back who you were!!" Like what?? Not taking about the episode against atheism,the one against autism and the one against communism with american capitalistic propaganda!!
in my head, maya got the fuck away from josh, maya realized that she DOES deserve a good guy and CAN improve herself and that it ISNT copying riley (because let's be honest, that whole storyline was ridiculous. no riley, you aren't the only person who's allowed to have good grades and be happy, plz get therapy), and her and lucas ended up together. thats how it happened in my head, thats my canon... and riley got therapy or matured or something.😭
I wish your canon had happened- along with Riley REALLY having gotten told off by her family and friends who FINALLY called her on her stuff! Oh, and I don't think Riley was truly happy- EVER. Folks who constantly meddle and, especially, sabotage others are VERY unhappy people even if they fake otherwise when manipulating!
@@wardarcade7452yea it shows in her bullying episode that she prolly has horrible thoughts i mean the perfect people with the “perfect life” can have problems
@@whoisfaith__ It also shows that NOBODY is perfect much less has a 'perfect life'! Also, let's not forget that in that 'Girl Meets Yearbook' Riley went from wanted everyone around her to have sunshine and rainbows (as per HER doing) to wanting everyone around her to think that LIFE itself was futile (as opposed to just 'woe is me, everyone can choose for themselves whether or not to be happy').Seriously, Cory and Topanga needed to have had her put into intense therapy for that!
@@mythanita4292 If anything Riley regressed on that show so that by the time it ended she more or less was a spoiled toddler who expected (and got) everyone to cater to her!
