Order a Buffer Interface (compatible with ANY Pedalboard surface) bit.ly/3DVdyWx Order a Buffer Module (ONLY compatible with Vertex Pedalboards) bit.ly/3NUcSp9 Buffer Wiring Guides: vertexeffects.com/vertex-interface-guide
YOU INCLUDED THE TUNER IN YOUR SIGNAL CHAIN DIAGRAM! No one does this and it has kinda frosted me for a while and kept me from trying to run my buffers. I never said I was smart. Thank you!!!!! I should toss my buffers I've been wanting to run and just buy this one out of principle. VRTX is a phenomenal company and this channel is truly a God send that has helped answer so many questions I have had. VRTX is the real MVP ❤❤❤❤❤❤
@@surfthejapstrat7010 my understanding is that it's similar to the buffer in a Klon. That's a great overdrive, but not so good of a buffer if you're comparing it to the criteria you want for a quality buffer (tone-wise). I'm sure it's well built, as all JHS stuff is - but it will have a particular sound that's different than the guitar and amp alone with a 10ft. cable as as baseline (and you might want that). It's not really a comparable product. You'd have to get four of them plus an isolation box of some kind to get the same performance as our interface or module buffers do.
The reason is that 100ft. would never be a baseline someone would calculate. The sound you want to calibrate to is the guitar into the amp with a short cable (hence the 10ft. cable reference). The 100ft. cable is showing a worst case scenario and how closely it resembles the 10ft. cable alone without the buffer. Any buffer will make a 100ft. of cable sound better typically to some degree, but not every buffer can make a 10ft. cable with no buffer sound like a 100ft. cable with a buffer driving it.
Hosa sells them or we sell them on our site www.therigdr.com: www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/YPP111--hosa-ypp-111-y-cable-1-4-inch-ts-to-dual-1-4-inch-tsf-6-inch
There was a difference. Buffered signal sounded smoother...like compression was added. Now, many are saying it sounded "better." Well, ok...but, it is still different than the un-buffered signal. For better or worse.
100 ft. isn't a the baseline. It's more of a "beyond worst case scenario". 10ft. with no pedals is the closest baseline to what a guitar should sound like ideally, then the 100ft. cable is showing that the buffer can drive it with little to no impact to the baseline (10ft. cable into amp) tone. It's almost impossible to demonstrate something that should have no sound as a "tone" pedal - much of our videos leading up to this support what was being said in this video and demonstrated.
You guys just solved my issue about what damn 2 in and out buffers I am trying to purchase! I’m going to order one! Thanks for making such pedal that a lot of us out there are looking for! I watch all you vids
Seriously! My conundrum as well. If you're running four-cable method and plan on having a buffer everywhere (not on the FX Loop out if you have a good FX Loop, right?), then you need three. This saves space and cable.
Did anyone else think the buffer + 100ft sounded better than straight in? You know you've done a great job when the basic tone doesn't necessarily "change", but the painful shrill bite goes away in a pleasing way, not in a detrimental way like some other brands. Nice work Mason.
Wonder if you're just hearing the dynamics in my picking. We spent a lot of time to ensure that we could get 1:1 with 100ft of even bad high capacitance cable.
@@VertexEffectsInc A large company released their standalone buffer some years back and even in the you tube vids, the tone changed in a way that made it sound more solid state with noticeable top end gone, as if it was chopped off at a certain frequency. The reviewers were making excuses for it and trying to say thats as good as it gets. Another brand I tried added treble and it sounded brittle. Yet another brand made the tone lose attack and things darkened. Yours sounds completely natural and musical. 100ft has to have some affect on highs, yet yours doesn't lose any "tone", it comes out sounding better.
Inline Isolation Transformer When using with a Wet|Dry|Wet configuration, should I add one of my isolation transformers inline to the second wet amp? ...or is isolating only one of the three amps the 'best practice'?
Generally I recommend that folks use an isolated line out box, like the Suhr, so you can get additional isolation of the wet side if needed and you can use the ISO transformer on the interface to take care of the other wet amp. Ideally you need two of the three isolated in the worst case scenario.
@@VertexEffectsInc Sadly, I don't use a line-out from my dry amp to feed the wet channels. I generally split the dry signal on the pedalboard with a lehle p-split. I run the iso line to the dry amp, and the direct line out to the wet effects chain on the board. The stereo signal leaves the effects chain out to the wet amps through a second p-split, with the right channel isolated. Does this meet the criteria you have outlined above, or am I woefully off-base with this implementation? ...and can implement something similar using your new Buffer Interface? Im hoping this clarification will also help others that use this slight variation on the WDW configuration outlined in your drawings. By the way, thanks for always being so attentive to your users questions, particularly here on RU-vid! 🤘
For the 4-cable wiring method, does the interface have auto rerouting for when I want to run all pedals in front of the amp (for example, when the amp doesn't have an effects loop). Thanks!
Great all in one "buffer box" with a lot of routing possibilities, which I often had to do with separate buffers - love it. 👍 Should be available at Thomann. 😉
But... why you didn't demonstrate the tone of 100 ft cable without buffer? That basically almost ruined the point of good demonstration. Maybe without buffer the tone would be as good. You had a chance to prove buffer is needed, but you didn't use the opportunity :)
100ft. cable wouldn't be the baseline, but rather a beyond worse case scenario. The baseline is the 10ft. cable into the amp, that's what you're reasonably trying to reproduce even with 10+ pedals and a dozen cables from guitar to amp.
not even close to identical they are different thanks but no thanks buffers are a joke and not needed and will change tone/sound and its ouput was noticable as well..
The idea is, if you can sound the same as a 10ft cable simulating a "worst case scenario" I think we've proved the effectiveness of the buffer in the shortest amount of time. I think we can presume a 100ft. cable is going to sound bad.
You're hearing the pick attack, not the buffer. It's not a direct A/B like turning a pedal on/off. You have to plug in cables add power, etc. It's sorta impossible to get it in real time without a loop of 100ft. of cable sitting around in a true bypass looper with the input buffer connected.
I love it, but I have gotten so used to the Mesa High Wire having a built in clean boost, I’m not sure I want to go back to needing two separate pedals for buffer and boost again. Hmmm… 🤔
I hear the highs and high mids slighly compromised... probably nothing an amp tweek can't correct. I remember seeing Albert Collins wander around the audience on a 100 ft cable. His sound would take your head off, Tele bridge pup into a Fender Quad Reverb.... i firmly believe my tinitus is partially due to standing 10 feet from the front of his amp. I'm still wondering if this is buffer necesary for small time bar gigs. Won't your Boost pedal do the same? I play mostly Tele. All that 2 amp, stereo, line out stuff is rocket science to me. You are a rocket scientist..... as well as the rig doctor.... For decades, I refused to use pedals, always a straight-in player. It all started when I didn't like my amp's reverb, and bought a Boss '73 Fender reverb pedal, which blew me away. Then a friend let me try his Timmy... then it was off to the races buying and using too many pedals. I'm now downsized, and am fond of "always-on." The only pedal I use during a gig is a volume pedal... but once again, I love your products, and your videos. Keep up the great work.... I enjoy your playing too... good stuff. How about doing a music video with a band? So many players demo a product solo, sounds disjointed.... hell.... even a backing track would be a huge improvement. Why is that? JHS uses bass & drums in their demos. It adds so much to the demo...
How do you know it's just not the difference in playing? I can tell you that there's almost zero detectable loss even with 200 ft. of a decent cable. Many of our videos use tracks, look at any of the last 3-5 videos.
Hey Mason! One question: is there a possibility to acquire it in Europe (apart from buying it internationally from Sweetwater)? I am building a decent studio pedalboard and I've been thinking about an item like yours to incorporate to my new build (and haven't found any but yours). Thanks in advance!
I just bought this buffer from Sweetwater. I own the ES-5 and the 8. Would you recommend that I disable the buffers from the es 5 and 8 while using the Vertex buffer? Also I was Having a hard time with ES 5 trying to route it with your diagrams which are great ! But this Es 5 is throwing me for a loop😂
I have my source audio C4 first in my chain. I have it set to analog buffered bypass. Does it have a sufficient input buffer or would I need a separate one? I can’t hear any tone loss.
How about!! When you’re using a 7 cable method? Using a multi effects unit along with the gains of 2 amplifiers ?(obviously using the fx loop for external modulation pedals)
Well, I tell ya, my Vertex Boost is seriously the most transparent boost I've ever heard, so I take it at your word that these are transparent as well! I've never liked any buffers in the past, always this annoying high end "sheen" I call it. I suppose on stage you'd never notice but I don't like it. My question is Mason, I know you don't like the buffers on the G2, so would your module be helpful on a board with that or is there no way around their choice of in/out buffers?
They qr code is a great idea! The number of times I'm trying to do something simple that I just haven't in a while, so I sit there staring at my phone trying to find a diagram lol
Hey guys, thanks for all the infos, love the channel!!! Let me ask one thing: is there, somehow, any wiring method to use the 4 cable, BUT with some insert point on it??? Would be lovely, and exactly what I need. Thanks
You are a genius brother; can you help this old rocker, turned retired firefighter, but still playing in my bedroom. I have 5 Gain, overdrive drive etc. pedals and 8 stereo effects pedals. Going into two amps. I want to keep it simple. I have the Boss ES-8, I cant deal with that. So I am scrapping it. It looks like this would be perfect for me. Can you confirm
So in a 4cm with a Switcher , in line volume pedal , the Emprerss Buffer and a Sentry noise gate( A lot of maintence pedals here) So Guitar into the Buffer or Noise gate first? Buffer makes sense but you lose the input push right? So then maybe the Noise gate IN first from Guitar, then hit the Buffer then the Switcher to start your front of amp effects. Then the Send out of the Switcher to the Front of your amp, no maintence pedals in this signal. The Send out of your effects loop into the Volume pedal for overall master volume, Then the Noise gate then into the Switcher Volume return. From there the Modulation delay reverb type effects loops are after the volume input loop and then the output of the Switcher to the Buffer and then out to the Return of your amps effects loop . Do I have the right or would you do it differently? I'm using a Boss ES-8 as the switcher and it's awesome.
Off topic,,,but has anyone ever considered making a single switching pedal unit to control the channel switching between 2 three channel amps. Where, you can control simultaneous switching from clean to crunch to ultra on both amps with one pedal?? Been looking hard for one of these,....can't get any tech help from manufactures, or amp technicians ,......
Hi, I'd like to make sure I understand properly. I'll be using this on my ampless rig with stereo effects. Would this method work? Guitar in > dry effects > preamp pedal > return on the buffer > send on the buffer > wet effects > stereo on buffer
I have a dual amp setup so where do I put the buffer and I have 4cable method, so I run fuzz>tuner> drives> chorus> stereo reverb>> split to matchless and split to Princeton . os how do I use a buffer with the loop function or do I need 3 small seperate ones ? I have. Peterson stompHD which says has a great buffer but not sure its good enough
I just got the message today that the buffer mod is being shipped today by Sweetwater, i have the vertex elite pedal board. got the power module, just got the Denelectro roebuck, odr, the xtc modded boss e7, the vertex boost, mxr compressor, a delay unit, 2 more buffers , a wah now i am in business
The reason is that 100ft. would never be a baseline someone would calculate. The sound you want to calibrate to is the guitar into the amp with a short cable (hence the 10ft. cable reference). The 100ft. cable is showing a worst case scenario and how closely it resembles the 10ft. cable alone without the buffer. Any buffer will make a 100ft. of cable sound better typically to some degree, but not every buffer can make a 10ft. cable with no buffer sound like a 100ft. cable with a buffer driving it.
I am using a line 6 POD GO. Do I need a buffer ? Another option is I may need to run a 50 foot cord from the pod go to an amp in the studio. How would I connect a buffer for that ?
It would be nice if you could actually demo how it improves the sound caused by impedance problems with some practical example. How it just seems like a box that just does nothing at all.
Love this Mason, I have been using the Mesa High-Wire Dual Buffer on all my boards. I have been waiting for your buffer, I am going to get one from Sweetwater. I am also planning on having a Tone Consulting session with you.
Plug into your amp, plug into it through the buffer, is there a change? Thats the test it seems nothing passes, I really wish I could use a pedal and think its a tonal improvement to the baseline.
So my set up currently, I’m running through the UA Dream, into my time based effects and then into the walrus canvas di/line isolator box, which then runs into my Apollo interface, or front of house if I’m gigging. Ive really been in the market for a buffer pedal like yours. The good wood audios interfacer, the a3 custom tone solution being two that seem to be of similar makeup. I’m curious whether your pedal can both replace my walrus canvas, and give me an input/output buffer? And if it doesn’t really offer what the canvas does, would you run your buffer before or after the di box? Thanks, Adam
The Canvas is a DI, so no - it won't replace what you have. Honestly I don't think you need it with this set up if you're going balanced out to the board and ampless.
If I got two six foot cables coming out of my reverb into my amps is that six feet or is that 12 feet? Do I need a buffer if I have less than 20 feet of cable? How much length does a guitar pedal add to the length? Isn't a buffer in a pedal enough?
No, if you want to do that, I recommend plugging directly into the impedance sensitive stuff and then hitting the input buffer afterwards. You could also use the FX Send as a passive input, hit your impedance sensitive stuff, then use the FX Return as an output for your insert and the Guitar Input as the Input back from the insert loop (as an alternative) if you wanted to keep it all in the interface.
I’ve been watching several of your videos and am wondering if I need a buffer on my board. I’m running a Shure wireless, then 11 pedals, then a MXR Boost/Line Driver at the end. All patch cables are Mogami. Using a 25ft Mogami cable to the amp.
Mason, a very critical question. I'm planning to purchase the Chase Bliss Preamp MK2 soon and noticed in addtion to all the amazing gain tones, it has fuzz capability. Do you have experience with this and would a buffer before the pedal affect that specific circuit? I mean, I guess I'm just gonna have to dive in and try myself once I get it. I'm trying to make that my only drive pedal on the board before the SSS SRV and utilize amp sim after.
@@7Boots right, but the other drive circuits in the pedal aren't impedence sensitive as far as I know. I guess I'll just plug straight into the pedal and then go through buffer input ofr the rest of my board.
@@prstito ideally it's before any buffer so you could use it the passive input (SEND) as shown in our wiring diagrams under "What If I Have A Fuzz": www.vertexeffects.com/vertex-interface-guide#section-fuzz
I have a Supro Keeley Custom 12 which has a passive effects loop with a high impedance send and low impedance return at line level. I've been looking at fx loop buffers, will this help me when running 4 cable method? If not I'm still interested in running all through front of amp but I'm just curious. Thanks!
I would help with the buffer on the return, but really you need a buffer on the send and using something like the Klienulator to fix this which needs to live at your amp.
@@VertexEffectsInc I thought as much, thanks very much for the reply! Do you have any UK or EU based suppliers in mind or is sweetwater still the way to go for international purchases? edit: just saw mention of Thomann... that will do nicely 👍
Mason, First you are one of the worlds best manufacturers' and innovators. Your videos are understandable simple yet detail very clearly. That being said. your buffer sets the standard for junction boxes. I specifically wanted an ISO when i decided to go stereo. interestingly most do not take the isolation into account which you do. Keep up the great work.
I have a tc polytune 3 at the beginning of my chain and a Strymon bigsky at the end of my chain, both set to buffered bypass. Do you think this is enough or would you recommend standalone buffers?
This will be a better buffer, and will offer isolation on one output and phase/polarity control for your two amps. Your current system won't offer this.
My main board runs straight into my DAW for recording..many of the (19) pedals have high quality buffers..some can be switched to true bypass..question: can you have too many buffers? If using your unit should I turn off the others? Love your vids!
Most of your pedals don’t have high quality buffers - less than 1% of pedals do. Most people don’t know what qualifies a good buffer. Most aren’t 1M input impedance and 100 ohm output impedance - most are 10x worse on the output impedance.
@@VertexEffectsInc So for pedals which allow you to switch between true bypass and not (or buffered bypass?), do you suggest turning off the true bypass option?
This is a great pedal Mason. How does it compare to the Lehle Sunday Driver SW aside from the multiple I/O? One thing I wish you could've done for the video was to plug your guitar into a passive volume pedal, from the volume pedal into a pedalboard and then out of the pedalboard with a 100ft cable to the amp with no separate buffer anywhere in the chain.
Sunday Drive is good, it unloads the guitar however with too high an input impedance relative to a normal amp as I recall. Secondly, they don't build rigs so I always feel that many brands are at a disadvantage as they don't really see a lot of pedals from hundreds of different makers to figure out what works as a part of the whole. That's one big advantage we have separately from anything to do with electronics. The VP situation won't change, 100 ohm output Z with the quality of this buffer could drive more than 100ft. even with VP and no loss.
The reason is that 100ft. would never be a baseline someone would calculate. The sound you want to calibrate to is the guitar into the amp with a short cable (hence the 10ft. cable reference). The 100ft. cable is showing a worst case scenario and how closely it resembles the 10ft. cable alone without the buffer. Any buffer will make a 100ft. of cable sound better typically to some degree, but not every buffer can make a 10ft. cable with no buffer sound like a 100ft. cable with a buffer driving it.
I think you're responding to picking attack more than sound. I had more than a decade to make it 1:1 but I'll admit that having a True Bypass looper might have been a better way to demo it in real time 100ft. with buffer vs. 10ft. into the amp - the time it takes to plug/unplug the proper cables and then replay the same part makes it hard to fully replicate the attack and dynamics.
I would use this Buffer Interface for the 4 Cable Method primarily. But I also use amps without Effects Loops. To switch between the two, I would use the Audition Loop wiring? So when using an amp without an Effects Loop, those pedals that would be running into the Loop are now in the chain but at the end of my chain? I would just jump the Send and Return like you did at 08:10? This stuff ALWAYS confused me
Yes, you can use the FX loop or audition loop wiring. If you wanted to run it in front of an amp (with the same signal path), you'd just use a jumper cable connecting "Amp L" to "SEND" and then use "RETURN" as the output to the amp.
Cool product. So if I’m using a gain pedal to slam the front end of an amp, any output buffer on this VRTX unit will not clip? When I mean slam the front end, I mean a clean Fender amp turns into high gain amp.
It will work for bass as well, however there is much more variety of input impedance for bass amps so depending on your amp this input impedance on our buffer could be too low based on what you're used to. Some amps for bass are as high as 10M ohms. Where as all guitar amps are pretty much all 1M.
Amazing all-in-one buffer system. Great work on getting all the needs into one compact unit. Two questions: On the 4-cable set-up, why not have the FX-loop go through AMP R out? On the W/D/W set-up, why not have dry go through the FX send and the two wets through AMP R and L?
