But like even if the river was a blank he still could have checked and the guy woulda gone all in and he coulda snap called which would have been easier.
Thank you so much!!! Literally 1 hour after watching this video I was in a 1/3nl game and was put in almost the exact same position only the villain had KJdd And snap raised all in, this video literally made me money within an hour of watching it.
This is probably the one tell I consciously try not to give off. Whenever I am betting the river or jamming at any point, I force myself to take about 15 seconds to pretend I am thinking. Doug polk had a good video about how he called an Isildur snap jam because most of Isildurs value range would at least need a few seconds of thought.
@@MM-gl1xz I think it's a lot more "obvious"than we might think. It's just such a weird move that even an amateur is going to take a minute to try to figure out what it might mean, and I think they'll be more inclined to call than usual
@@blakefredrickson6506 not going to work in practice. when the last card comes off, you still need some time process your actual standing in this hand. So even if he had trip 8s, he would have to process in his brain that an 8 came on and that he has a winning hand. ALso, had he had trip Aces or KK, the 8 at the end would still making think for a second or two to figure out if the hand hand completed a better full house.
This works both ways. I have been in villain's position with 8's full or 7's full and snap shoved against more experienced players as a reverse tell. They see it as a bluff and call. It really is opponent dependent as you say. If it's a less experienced player I would call every time on that runout.
i doubt that youd snap shove here, you'd still have to consider other possibilities such as AA, and that would take a second or two, so i dont see how you'd snap shove.
@@KronStaro Does Bart snap-check here? As soon as the river rolls out, I can take a second to decide that if my opponent checks, I'm shoving. This wouldn't take me longer than it would take the opponent to decide to check.
@@bash6404 Playing 1-2 NL, I'm in the 4 and the 2 raises to $20, I reraise to $55 with KK, and it folds around to him. He starts babbling. After about a minute he says "well I guess it's time to go" and shoves for about $300. I'm pretty sure he has aces, but I want to know for sure. So I flip up my kings in front of him and say "You're gonna have to show me the aces." He has had his head down after shoving with a baseball cap on so he doesn't realize I didn't put chips in and call. He grabs his cards, looks at me and flips up the aces. I just nodded. Then he looks at the middle of the table and says where's all the chips? I was pretty happy after that.
@@vishalshah3223 what's up with the insults? Why is it a horrible play precisely? If there is no more action the opponent can make, and you have, say quads or top boat, why would you not snap call? What possible advantage are you gaining by wasting time?
Funny thing about this video is that in my games the snap shove means they are really strong and they don’t even think about bet size they just try to extract max by shipping it
As a poker dealer, it's super easy to practice looking for live play tells without any risk of losing money. Never stare at a player as the dealer, but you can still see the tells without crossing the line. LOVE your channel btw.
@@reeferpartier100 I started by reading the Mike Caro book on poker tells and as a dealer, it was easy to practice looking for them and identifying them. The other day, I watched a player bet the turn by tossing chips away from his opponent, which is something that the book explains is usually indicative of weakness and sure enough the player folded to a raise.
That's interesting. I would have thought his quick action would indicate the 8 had hit a set for him, possibly a boat. Always learning something new for this rookie.
Love watching you play. I used to be such a nit. I've loosened up a lot playing the 70% type model. Sometimes I worry about playing too tight still until I watch you play. Tight is good.
I wouldn't say tight is good. Better to say "tighter is righter". if someone is button raising any 2 cards and you're playing 20% vpip on the bb, you'll lose too many blinds to ever compete with him long term. If he is raising 100% and you're calling with 70%, now you're got a better edge on him
I was in this exact spot like a year ago and he snapped all in and I called based on the tell and got showed the nuts. I hate poker. Let's go back to 2000 poker: Player: All in Opponent: Well if you have a better hand than me you win, I call. Or just have everyone play like Phil Hellmuth. Then poker would be alright.
That’s definitely a common tell and it is a polarizing bet when someone insta-shoves. I have seen it just as often the other way however where they have the nuts. I actually see other tells including bet sizing tells that are more reliable and more common than this. (And I play in Austin, TX for what it’s worth)
Slow action also is a good tell that its a bluff. When someone jams or bets big on the river after taking a considerably long time, and judging by the type the hand he's trying to represent, you can tell that a person is bluffing because there was no need for them to take a longer than usual time to think about their supposedly "big hand". You have to also consider the type of the hand being represented, so it doesn't apply in all situations.
This raises my poker IQ - detecting foolhardy behavior when there’s enough complexity you need to think. I know I am improving because now I can at least completely understand your breakdown.
I definitely have had a fair amount of rec players snap shove river on me when checked to. Yes a good amount have been bluffs but quite a few have hit their draw or improved somehow on the river. On this particular board with your hand not blocking any draws and also blocking hands that beat you I do like a call here. Nice analysis as always 👍
NH Sir. A few details are missing that I'm curious about. Is the villain drinking? If so how much has he had to drink? Does he know who you are? Also, is there any history between the two of you that aided your decision to call a pot size bet with a hand that can virtually only beat a bluff?
He literally just explained the tell and why snap all-in'ing with AK/AQ/any 8 makes no sense on the river. Also any 8 would probably not just call a raise on the turn due to the diamond draw, we probably would have seen more action before the river with these other hands versus a diamond draw.
Without the live tell, I would’ve folded thinking that he’s only going to raise pre-flop 7X with some kind of ace king type holding and then getting counterfeit on the river. I probably would’ve folded, but having this information you can see it’s pretty obvious and I guess given the equity you have to think of all the hand combinations you’re winning 33% of them as you said great information I actually like these almost better where it’s from your point of view, especially this where something negative happens on the river
Very cool Bart. A lot of my friends at home games snap bet or snap jam the river when they hit what they were chasing so this is tough against very rec players but i def agree that regs and pros think a bit before value betting rivers
this is an interesting caveat. but you are right, most good thinking "pros" or regs or whatever, will take the time before value betting, even if they rivered the nuts. When they snap jam they are doing it as a reactionary thing because they know it is a card they want to jam on, and they think it will look stronger to snap jam than to think about it so they just do it quick hoping it looks strong. Good players like Bart can sniff that out though. nice hand and good call at the end here.
Jordan Patrick I play micro online and people snap jam the nuts on the river regularly. Of course, I’m playing against either regs, bots or house players so not the same situation. I looked at my losing hands and almost all my loses are river calls and I’m up huge in river bets.
If the villain is a casual rec player, and he did have AK... once the A came on the turn and he bet and you called, I would think a rec player would reasonably snap-jam any river that wasn't a diamond if he was an aggressive type player. Because like you said the rec players don't value bet enough and tend to jam instead without thinking about the bet.
Sorry about that. Bad luck to have it happen twice. Variance. You will reverse the scenario next time. Did u play the hands well? Yes. Forget about it and move on. Shit happens in poker. You have to stay strong mentally.
What about 78 for a boat or 88 for quads. I dont think villain always jams over a check-raise on turn there. 88, although unlikely, may be trapping in hope of a safe river, while 78 is probably does a bit trapping and bluff catching. Maybe the combos of these hands are insignificant when stacked against bluff combos, but villain can def auto-jam with the nuts, no? Agreed, a thinking player would think and try to gauge max value, but bad players can also show up with nuts...
The best is taking the same amount of time each time the action is on you. Unless you’re just snap folding garbage of course. Any call or raise you make, keep your time 10-15 seconds or so, making it impossible for your opponent to get a timing tell on you
If you're literally spending 10s on every decision, even when you have obvious folds or if the pot is $10, yeah that's absolutely tanking. If everyone spent that amount of time on every hand that's going to be 3+ minutes minimum for most hands which means you're seeing like 15-20 hands an hour which is abysmal even for live
@@jakegoldrich4847 like I said originally, ‘unless snap folding garbage.’ Then take 5-10 seconds, my point is try to keep your time spent fairly similar, otherwise people may pick up on a timing tell. Trying to decide whether to make a call to a big raise might require tanking, but in most situations you should try to keep spending the same amount of time when action is on you.
Interesting hand. Nice read. If villain is a solid player I'm reading the hand as you did. But describing him as very much recreational I assumed he had a painted A. Informative stuff. Thanks
His range is polarized and you are getting 2:1. Seems like a call even without the timing tell. Also, "strong when weak, and weak when strong" with rec players.
If i know someone is bluffing and i have a bluff catcher. i will either check or bet like i am nervous basically i give a tell on purpose to draw them in 9 out of ten times it works a treat
As others say, some players at this level are soooo bad they will snap shove with the (effective) nuts. But that seems pretty rare. Bart, you say that people will hesitate a bit in order to think about how to max value. A good player would definitely do that, but I think many players at this level aren't that good. But many players aren't that good but are good enough (which isn't very good at all) to know that when they have the nuts they need to convince the other player they aren't strong, so they will hesitate to try to convince you that they're weak. So this is another reason to call: a not-so-good player snap shoving is a sign they are trying to convince you they are strong, which means they aren't. Does this sound right?
Mark Moyer I actually find a lot of people at this level will bluff jam if they were the preflop aggressor, and ultimately found themself stuck firing 3 bullets and have too much money in the pot to fold it away. The difference is I think people at this level have more trouble diagnosing the situation and have a hard time calling a said bluff jams if they don’t have anything more than top pair.
Unfortunately good players know this about pacing. I got snap raised all in just the other day when the flush came in and he had the nut flush. Admittedly that situation required less thought from him, but he did use pacing to induce a call from me.
When someone is this bad playing a story that makes no sense (e.g. he would have thought about raising the turn with a set or 2 pairs and thought about the river all in), I'd like to take a few more seconds to get a 2nd "confirmation read" on the river. Probably 90% of the time, I would go with my first read and wouldn't be able to get away from that read but the 2nd read/nonread could let you know if he's capable of being deceptive enough to play AK, set, 2 pairs that boated up in the same fashion. He showed weakness on the turn, showed extreme strength on the river all in. What kind of strength did he showed when he said all in or pushed his chips in? What kind of strength did he show while you decide what to do on the river. This is all pretty important.
Surely TCN fee charges makes the game sooo much cheaper. Makes me wish there was a TCH in London! Ty for all your content and analysis. You have done more than most to give top quality free live cash content for 17 years and counting!
My only question is do most 1/2 or 1/3 players think like that? I never play either game but I can’t stand playing 2/5 (which I used to jump in while waiting for 5/10 or 10/25 games to go). I give people too much credit and I can’t play right (mostly because they aren’t playing the way I expect them to and I can’t put them on a range nor do I fold certain hands for the amount of money bet). Many of those lower game players don’t understand position, kickers, proper bet sizing or calling ranges. Granted Im talking about years ago (when I was playing full time) and to their credit, people play much better and much different now but also because of all of the poker instruction available. I think all games have better players in them than 20 years ago. I just question my understanding of the 1/2 or 1/3 players which are the lowest buy in games in most casinos and them playing a way in which I can put them on hands. They are also almost always recreational players. They may be decent recreational players and I’m not saying anything bad about that but it’s rare to get pros in those games unless it’s a live stream (with most other players being solid) or because they are waiting for a table to open. They also have meet up games now so maybe in that too.
Question! Could you In this situation, use a blocking bet river as $65-95? Would it be a good move to deny equity to AQ , AK and make sure the draws wouldn’t bluff you? Thanks
In statistics, variance is the squared difference between the outcome and the expectation... positive and negative really don't apply. You can increase and decrease variance though. I get what you are trying to say though
Same exact thing just happened to me in a 1-2 game I was in while waiting for a 2-5 seat. He bet the river super fast in a situation where thought would be required 109% of the time, it smelled wrong and I called with bottom pair. He was pissed and the table was dumbfounded. Coincidentally the previous hand I folded top pair on the river to a relatively small bet, they thought I was nots, but to a thinking player they were standard plays. Sometimes it’s fun to play down and see just how (level 1) 1-2 or 1-3 plays.
At my tournament last Friday the guy snap went all in on the river and I had the third nuts I folded because he snapped All In if he would have thought about it for a minute I probably would have called... he had the nut flush
i actually had villain on a KQ/KJdd. i believe i mentioned it on another of ur vids about small stakes quick jams n them being bluff heavy. the villains long pause on the turn smelled like a flush draw, too. i do look 4 quick river jams. if i have trip 8s, i bet $250 75% of the time looking 4 value. Grt hand n call.
I played a hand last week when the flop came all diamonds and I hit a set of 3’s by I bet 10 into a limped pot and get instantly raised to 25 on A36 of diamonds Alarm went of for a moment because of how fast he raised. Turn black king I check he bets 40 I call river he instantly shoved his last $120. I beat all AK hands and call. He shows 47 of diamonds. This tell didn’t work for me.
This can go either way though. You just happened to be right this time. In low stakes a lot of the times people don't bluff on the river. Especially when they snap move all in it can show a lot of strength. Tbh I think this is a losing call 8/10 times
i agree this was very rare in a low stakes game. You would see this more with a pro in a higher stake game trying to school a rec player . In this case it was just the opposite
nice to see more "avg Joe" level play.. by that i mean lower stakes. i would love to try higher stakes, but the bankroll/real world, doesnt allow for it. and the play i have come across at the low stakes - $1-2, $1-3, $2-5.. i prefer tourneys, but, when tourneys arent panning out, i jump on cash games.. usually i have either a good cash game run, and crappy tourney results, or good tourney results and crappy cash game runs.. i spend more time in one or the other, depending on how things are "running". enjoyable to see hands and stakes against players i would typically face.
I always get confused about regulars and recreational players, when people say "a rec" or is it "a reg". Can somebody tell me. English is not my first language.
Amano Jyaku : “a reg” means “regular player”, not necessarily a pro, but plays a lot. Probably a solid player. “A rec “ means a recreational player. Not necessarily bad, but is playing for fun, and is thus more likely to take chances.
@@halecarter7041 i knew this, but i meant when they say "a rec" or "a reg" i dont hear the difference between the two. So what is when they use that term, a regular or recreational. Anyway thanks for the reply✌🏾
A6, A5, A4, A3 all chop with A2 because 7 plays. An All-in makes perfect sense if you believe your opponent has a low-kicker Ace, or you're simply repping the nuts to push off AT, A9, A8. AQ or AJ will likely call.
