The Mysterious Horses, Elephants, and Snakes in the Book of Mormon! 

I work in landscaping and have been binge listening to Radio Ward 8+ hours a day for the past 2 weeks. Amazing discussions and I love the "deep doctrines"

Picturing Jaredites riding around on Mastodons is beyond epic.

I am now a true heartland believer after following this for the last two years.

Ancient sheep remains were found just down the road from Cumorah in the 1960's. Sheep and lambs are mentioned 77 times in the Book of Mormon. Many references are figurative, but as Alma 5:59 indicates, the people were familiar with sheep and did tend to them. William Richie, an archaeologist, reported that he found remains of domestic sheep in western New York dating to 100 A.D., about 30 miles east of the Hill Cumorah. William Richie, The Archaeology of New York (The Natural History Press, Garden City, NY 1965), p. 242

Can someone remind them that there’s a HUGE snake mound in the Hopewell area. Of course there’s snakes all over the northeast. In Va, we have full winters and plenty of snakes of all kinds.

Also important to remember that the climate two thousand years ago in North America was warmer which would possibly allow for snakes, parrots etc. in some parts.

I remember when I was studying this. A couple days later I read on a U-haul trailer that there were mammoth 🦣 bones uncovered in Hyde Park, NY. NY is in North America. Therefore, there were elephant species 🐘 here anciently. Thanks U-haul lol

Just one important fact that should always be considered is that the Book of Mormon timeline is set during the Roman Warm Period which ran from approximately 250BC to 400AD.

Western Wyoming and Montana have museums that show giant bone structures from ancient elephants.

Enos 1:21 And it came to pass that the people of Nephi did till the land, and raise all manner of grain, and of fruit, and flocks of herds, and flocks of all manner of cattle of every kind, and goats, and wild goats, and also many horses. They brought many of these animals on the ship. The ship must have been larger than imagined. They also brought the seeds with them from Jerusalem, crops that wouldn't grow in the Mesoamerican climate but will grow in the heartland of the eastern US.

Makes so much sense! Love it!!

I Love that you mentioned Amberlie Nelson. I sent Rod Meldrum the link to her video just yesterday. The holy days of the Law of Moses had to be observed. Thank you, Rod, for bringing that up. I am a heartlander.

Fleets of horses and rat ducks! YESSS! Cardon I’m dying hahaha! Meldrum is so passionate how can’t you like him!?

Louis and Clark met Indians who ate raw bison and fish east of the Rockies.

Understanding the Nephites were typically categorized as the god believing people, when King Mosiah found the people of Zarahemla, or the Mulekites, the Mulekites had already been living there for 200 years and had become “exceedingly numerous”. They were absorbed as Nephites, but they would have been the original mound builders in the heartland model. King Mosiah travelled “down” in elevation northward to the land of Zarahemla from the land of Nephi. Last I checked, where the heartlanders pinpoint the land of Nephi, King Mosiah would have had to travel “up” in elevation to get to the land of Zarahemla, not down. The only possible way for King Mosiah to travel “down” was if they came from within the Appalachians which would have been more of a westerly journey or the Rockies via Central America which would have been a northerly journey. The heartland model makes complete sense once the records get us there, but there is more to the land of first inheritance and the land of Nephi that needs to be understood.

The old Seneca Indians of upstate New York still had stories of the "Great Battle" of 1200 years before , recounted in Colonial Times. Stories were passed down about the vast amounts of loot, including "Cattle" that had been seized during that war. Most don't know it, but there were 2 types of Bision. The large Prairie Bison that we are familiar with and a smaller "Woodland" Bison that went extinct in the early 1700s. I'm thinking that Nephites had perhaps domesticated the smaller type. The Laminites may not have been too disposed to keeping towns, small cities, large farms, and large herds of animals. I think the "Cattle" probably died off or went feral after a generation or 2.

The thing I dislike about this channel is that far too often they do not allow the guests to talk. They like to hear the sound of their own voice.

Rod Meldrum taking care of some beef with the geographic models. Rock on!

Over hunting can also explain why some of these species are not seen today.

Love Rod! He’s got a great mind. Question here is WHY is the moundbuilders civilization not understood like other ancient cultures? It’s not talked about hardly at all! I love hearing both sides. It’s fun and exciting. All the information from Rod and Wayne May have been eye opening. Pretty cool stuff! I live in Ohio I know about the great Black Swamp! We lived on “Swamp road 10 years ago and moved. Called Swamp road bc it used to be swamp land. There also used to be a huge mound here that was torn down called the Hanukkah mound. Look it up. Really cool.

This was FUN! Do an episode on the plants,please.

The ability to tan bison efficiently was a huge reason for the bison extinction.

There was a full skeleton of an elephant/ mammoth or mastodon found at that Cohoes Falls in upstate NEW YORK. 😮

Total Heartlander here!!!❤

I love this. I believe the book of mormon is truth. It is prove that it changes lives for the better. This video is so informative.

I'm easily team heartland. There is much more evidence for the heartland model than the meso American model.

I believe that Ether may be the most faith promoting book in the Book of Mormon. There is so much bull&Shiz in just this one book that It can create almost overwhelming dissonance. Fortunately, once this dissonance is resolved, what remains is a rock solid testimony of the BOM, regardless of what other Shiz is found. A special thanks to Leon Festinger for his help in understanding Ether!

36:34 until we’re clear about what it means to be “carried away” (1 Nephi 1:8; 11:1) or how frequently Nephites commanded “water to become earth” (1 Nephi 17:50) or vice versa or know what it was Nephites commanded “trees, mountains, and waves of the sea” (Jacob 4:6) to do for them, we’re probably going to underestimate how far “a Nephite” (which one?) could travel in a day. Nephi could be caught away into high mountains. Heber J Grant could hie to Kolob. Let’s not leave the Power of God on the table of possibilities here and remain under condemnation

The Book of Mormon does say there were wolves among the Nephites Alma 5:59 "For what shepherd is there among you having many sheep doth not watch over them that the wolves enter not and devour his flock?" They had many sheep and they had to protect them from wolves.

At 40 min, he is mentioning a process called 'liquefaction' its a huge issue in construction in California.

Fun “Fact”: Theodor Seuss Guisel asked Joseph Smith Jr to name many of the plants and animals in his books-like “There’s a Wocket in my Pocket”-while they were roommates at Dartmouth

An example of animals moving or living on areas that would defy our limited logic is the American Crocodile: "Crocodiles lived in (or near) the Sonoran Desert until at least the late 1700s? Yes, apparently. And isolated individual crocodiles seemingly continued to find their way into the Gulf of California and the Sonoran Desert near Tiburon Island and the Yaqui River until very recently; a crocodile was captured at the El Ciego estuary near Guaymas in January 1973."

It's wildly unappreciated just how different pre-settlement America would look like. You hear and see even early photos of incredible things. Like the kind of massive bamboo-like grass plains that used to exist in the south but were eradicated. The massive buffallo herds, and the great Redwood forests we only have remnants of now compared to in the past just for starters.

To believe in the Bible literally, one must believe in a talking donkey, unicorns, talking snakes, a snake that can disguise itself as a rod until it is thrown in the ground, etc. Not sure why people freak out so much about BoM animals, their animals aren't nearly as weird. And half the hillbillies who laugh at Book of Mormon animals probably believe in fricking Sasquatch anyway.

Look into the curly horse of the American continent. Baskir or Bashkir. The history is uncertain.

The parrots escaped from the The Los Angeles County Aboretum and Botanic Garden where they filmed Tarzan so many years ago.

20:20 so which is it: Mesoamérica doesn’t have migrations because of seasons, but the Louisiana purchase territory was full of vegetation at all times, then why did the animals migrate seasonally?

Alma 63 - Hagoth builds a ship and launches it into Lake Michigan near the narrow neck which led to the land northward, loaded with many people and much provisions and they sail north to upper Michigan. The next year the ship returns and Hagoth builds more ships and more people sail north to upper Michigan and the ships don't come back. Is that about right? Why didn't they just walk northward?

Love love love this❤

7:00 if they were Ha’akame horses, that would explain why European settlers had difficulty finding any remaining 😂🍖🦴

The Michigan Bison Foundation shares contrary facts about bison. They claim that they have been found as far south as Mexico. That could support the idea that some could have travelled even further south if there had been a particularlly hard winter that hit all of North America. If in fact bison were the cows of the BoM and were the animal that came down from the land northward. Just saying. Interesting interview

According to ancient history, the Mexicanas ate snakes, which infested the area. And the Mexican horse lived in .... Mexico. We just don't know when they died out. There is one place where one could cross between seas in Central America in a day and a half. It is in Nicaragua.

Thanks!

Legit stuff! Thanks!!

It’s pronounced Kane-ka-kee. That’s the name of the town in Illinois where my husband grew up and was baptized.

I wonder how many are more converted to Jesus Christ and are leading better lives than before since subscribing to this manner of -ites.

So on the one hand we have the argument at 9:28, that says all mammals would have been wiped out with the flood which required people to bring their own sheep and goats to the western world, and at 23:38 we have the argument that the Jaredites hunted the Mastodons to extinction. So which is it?

You should have on your show a debate of heatlanders VS Mesoamerican model of the BoM.

Jack in the Box horse meat scandal in the 80's.....

35:58 there’s not just one narrow neck of land but there can’t be two Cumorah 😅

Where has* kwaku been?

Well Cardon more than likely it was someone’s pet bird who flew away 😢 however in Florida there are many kinds of smaller parrots who are now thriving and breeding.

Ok, since you looked at, what are the specific items in the excavation and study by professional paleontologists that you found incorrect?

Lake Michigan supposedly has a sunken city.

The horses were found in central Mexico not Texas. The findings were just published in the Texas Journal of Science.

I thought I heard one heartlander talking about ruins found in Lake Michigan? or some lake in Wisconsin? cant remember

30:34 now I’m curious if Hagoth sailed westward through the Great Lakes and really was drowned? It seems like they just could have walked around the Lakes and reconnected. Lewis and Clark were better explorers than the Nephites and Lamanites?

42:50 - this is what gets me Where my trauma comes from. What the “Mesoamerica” people did to me. Why don’t we have any BYU archeologists looking in the heartland for Book of Mormon answers instead of JUST the sites that support the mesoamerican theory?

Eastern NC, Texas, lots of snakes currently

That lasagne was the best, moat authentic ever

Who hurt you Rod? I love that. It’s because it’s not who hurts Rod, but it’s been a club that has hurt the church, because the Mesoamerican model and Two Cumorahs is so stupid that people have been able to hurt the church and peoples testimonies. I love Rods and Wayne Mays work.

BYU won't spend the money to research sites in North America,

No wonder the ex Mormons are gaining so many. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

My son heard that Lehi and his amily landed in Baja California. I think it fits because it's a narrow neck of land and it has different types of animals, as well as plants. I have visited and I can totally envision the Nephites and Lamanites living there. The northern country was likely the state of California, so it meshes the heartland theory (USA) with the mesoamerican theory (Mexico).

Getem Rod.

What book is Rod referring to during the podcast?

When joseph looked into the hat, didnt he see the words on the stone? So any word errors would be based on revelatory mistakes as opposed to his impressions? Didnt president nelson say the light had to be shielded with the hat to read the words like a cell phone?

Very Cool! 😎

Meldrum is a carpetbagger.

My favorite part of these podcasts between heartlanders and mezoamerican theories… is the laughing. Sometimes it’s too serious for me. I think the Lord left it a mystery because physical proof defies faith. And the real test is having faith in the Book of Mormon without physical proof ❤❤

Well Rod Meldrum once again destroys his own arguments. He deceitfully talks about a scripture where the people followed the animals and ate the carcasses, carefully excluding the portions that actually show that this is NOT an annual migration of animals. It is Ether 9:30-34 and indicates that the animals were not migrating at all. They left the land northward because of a famine and as a result a snake infestation. The people followed and ate the carcasses of the animals that fell by the wayside and then they ended up devouring all of the animals. Not only was this NOT a migration, it shows just the opposite, that they DID NOT migrate, but only left their habitat because of the famine and snakes. As far as Mesoamerica he indicates there are no movement of animals? When Rod talks about Mesoamerica, or the Mesoamerican models, he hardly ever knows what he is talking about. Again he tries to bootstrap Mosiah 18:4 into some continental migration. The verse says: "And it came to pass that as many as did believe him did go forth to a place which was called Mormon, having received its name from the king, being in the borders of the land having been infested, by times or at seasons, by wild beasts." First off, an "infestation" is not that same as a regular annual migration. This description is actually very accurate for Mesoamerica because dry season in the tropics is characterized by a decrease in resource availability for many vertebrates, and this can elicit increased home range sizes as animals roam to access resources necessary for their survival. "Dry season in the tropics is characterized by a decrease in resource availability for many vertebrates, and this can elicit increased home range sizes as animals roam to access resources necessary for their survival (Brandt and Cresswell, 2008; Smith and Griffiths, 2009; Volampeno et al., 2011; Morellet et al., 2013)." Hard to listen to this stuff without cringing tbh. Also, it doesn't say that the people hear only ate "raw meat". What is he talking about? There was a famine and they were out of food eating anything they could. Just because they ate the carcass of the animal does not mean they didn't cook it.

I'd be interested in discusdion about the sunken pyramids and area off the west coast of Peru. Could it be THE original Zarahemla?

There was a city found in a great lake (Michigan?)

the Brave AI seems to think that the Geographical location has to be that the geographical location has to be in north America due to the understanding of snow blizzards due to (1 Nephi 8:11) and does nit dig the idea of of a jungle setting as there no way they they would use snow in a metaphor as nobody would understand what was meant by it.

Eskimos/Inuit and seals/caribou?

The mongols centered around the horse.

they did know and understood east vs west...just as they also knew the difference between fresh water and sea water....they would have never called the great "lakes" "seas". plus the record tells of battles in January and the lamanites show up in loin cloths and bare heads. big problems with the heartland model

I am most definitely a heart lander!!!!

Does Bro Meldrum do a group tour of some of these interesting places?

Bros !

OR...OR....follow me here....HE JUST MADE THE WHOLE THING UP!!!

Great topic,,, guest needs to speak into the mic.

An English explorer from WHERE??!! 😂 Gloscow?? 🤣🤣🤣 It's pronounced Glosta. You're good fun 😄

The shear depth and bredth of ignorance shown here is gawping. The guests brought on here can literally pull any claim out of their backside and there is little to no scientific/academic push back. Mormon entertainment mingled with grifters.

There's huge snake population in chiwawa Mexico, narrow strip of land was in Mexico Panama canal?

Geez! Heard of Rattlers n copperheads?

Is it just me or does he get much more sceptical when talks with heartlanders 😅 I'm leaning more towards HL theory since you need much less stretching on the important matters (nephites did not sacrifice unclean rodents!)

8:50 there are black widow spiders on antarctica ?

I watch a Rod Meldrum video and I'm a heartlander! Then I watch a Jerry Grover video, and I'm a Meso guy. Then I hear the Exmos say there's no evidence for the BOM and I roll my eyes...

The continents were one landmass till the days of Peleg. So of course the Book of Mormon is true with what it says about animals in the New World.

What’s with picking on the Aussie animals? Lol

7:35 Really? They didn't have many horses or chariots because of the thick brush? That's the argument? Someone enlighten me on why European settlers had zero problem creating roads through thick brush when they came over, but the BoM people just couldn't be bothered. But besides that, where did the horses come from? That was never answered.

Can someone please tell Rod that Mexico is in North America, not central. Not a big fan of the lazy arguments. Grazing animals existed all over Mexico. Mexico is covered in grazing plains, just like US.

the maasai in africa.

I find it interesting that when Nephi describes the building of the temple. with it's exceeding fine workmanship (and I wonder how this small tribe of refugees had such craftemen skills) he says that it was "just like Solomon's except for no so many precious things, because they (precious things) were not to be found in the land." and yet the IMMEDIATE preceeding verse, he tells how there was so much steel, silver, gold, and precious ores in GREAT ABUNDANCE. 2 nephi 5: 15 And I did teach my people to build buildings, and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundance. 16 And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land, wherefore, it could not be built like unto Solomon’s temple. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine.

I need some help. I was wondering if anyone can explain to me Issiah 44:24. Is that Jesus or Heavemly Father, because according to Corinthians 1:16-17, it's Jesus that creates everything. I'm just confused about how this lines up with what has been taught in the Church. Is the Father alone the creator, or Jesus? For some reason I couldn't get anyone to give me an answer. How am I supposed to believe something is true when I don't know how to explain these comfusing scriptures? I also don't understand Isaiah 44:6. It seems to be referring to The Father and Jesus. If my assumption that the Redeemer, the Lord of host, is Jesus, then how are they both talking in the singular term as one? How can they both be, "The first and the last." I thought we are suppose to interpret it as besides me "there is no [True] God. Does that appy to Jesus also if both are speaking? How can they both be the true God? Doesn't it say in Genesis, let us make man in our image? That seems like two persons are creating man, or am I wrong? Somebody please help me?

When do Llamas first appear in South America and could they be the horses talked about in the BofM?

Horses and bees did not exist in the America's until the Spaniards brought them, indigenous peoples did not use them until after the Spanish arrival. Steel work was also non existent by indigenous peoples.

ANOTHER hour of trying to come up with explanations. Hell of a Restoration.

oh, it's Meldrum again. buh-bye.