Rod Meldrum is the only Book of Mormon geography guy I can believe in. He humble and funny and really just seems to be saying, “Have you guys SEEN this?!” Rather than telling people they’re dumb.
I once to use to be a door to door sales man. I knocked on Rods door and we started talking about the gospel. We had a great conversation. Rod gave me his book Exploring the Book of Mormon in Americas heartland. Loved the book and have been a heart lander ever since. Couldn't have been a nicer guy.
In Mosiah it mentions or warns of the “east wind”. The prevailing winds of the Midwest are west to east. However, when the winds reverse it is commonly due to a strong storm brewing from the south swirling counterclockwise. Potentially triggering tornadoes and hail. That doesn’t happen in the tropics. 😅
Been a heart lander for a hot minute… not once for the snow has been an issue for me. I look more for heaps of earth to cover the dead etc… lot of examples like that. But still loved this episode haha. Love the Uncle Sam outfit
Cardon, I know that you really want this to have happened in Meso America and it seems cooler and more exciting to you but, it happened in the Heartland! You just need to accept it and come check out the area’s like here in Ohio. Tour the area with Rod and get Wayne May to come along. Come try the exotic food like Cincinnati chili. And let us know when you’re here so I can follow along. Lol
Im not sure where Lehi landed exactly, but what I do know is the first thing he did after walking off the ship and onto the beach was to say, "Yall gonna make me lose my mind, up in here, up in here!"
I knew it, I knew it! Knew that the lovely and brainy Mrs. Ellis dressed you. If you are ever a little down, tune into Ward Radio, it will perk up your spirits. Best show on RU-vid.
@@angelalewis3645 Hi Angela, Thanks for the reply, I guess. Don't know what the image of headphones means. I grew up when there were party lines on phones and had to turn knobs to tune the TV and radios. Life was much simpler - and better- then. Steve
In North America back then the climate was much warmer and tropic birds were as for North as Ohio. There was a weather shift after the Neiphi destruction. This weather was also caused in Europe. So there was not snow as we have today. This can be checked out by looking at weather shift. Thank You
Thank you Rod for inviting me to speak with you at the FIRM conference. We had a great dialogue about recognizing all the ways we agree with each other and modeling how to respectfully disagree with each other. The Book of Mormon is true, and reasonable people can interpret the evidence (and early church leader statements) differently to come to different opinions on where the events of the Book of Mormon occurred. Looking forward to collaborating on transoceanic contact with the Old World and potential Mulekite/Phonecian connections!
Can't have this conversation without bringing up the mini ice age and the fact that the earth was generally much warmer in BOM times. Wayne May is who you really need to have on the show.
This discussion is a good one and we can have fun with it as long as everyone remembers that we (mesos and heartlanders) are all on the same team. What matters most is that we all believe the Book of Mormon is true. It makes me sad to see our brothers and sisters arguing over points of geography. It’s become a tool of the adversary to divide us.
In 2013, straight line winds did damage throughout our small town in eastern Iowa. Knocked down trees in our yard and yanked the power meter off the wall of our house. We were without power for 24 hours before the electric company came and put in a new power meter.
I remember Rod's first time on the show he was quite dry, but as you have gotten to know each other. You have a lot more fun during the episodes. Lots of laughing and entertaining
Fun intro! The Mayflower Pilgrims met Samoset more than a year after first landing (November 1620) when he visited their village (sometime 1622)… These two groups could be part of the 1 Nephi 13 prophesy…. Most important is a testimony of the Savior we can find by studying Book of Mormon. I believe that teachings by Joseph (especially the Wentworth letter), Oliver and later several LDS apostles are more in line with the Heartland and other North American models. BYU grad and former Meso-American believer here. I love the work that David R. Hocking did to make available the “Annotated Edition of The Book of Mormon”. His wife and her family activated my wife (and her mother) into the church when a young girl in Baytown, Texas. They don’t know it but I am grateful for their living testimonies!
Alma 43: 19 is the only reference in the BOM to "thick clothing" and is associated with the Nephites' battle armor. The next verse describes the opposing Lamanite army as only wearing loincloths. Enos 1:1 also describes the Lamanites as "wandering about in the wilderness with a short skin girdle about their loins and their heads shaven" On the other hand, there are several places that say the people made clothing out of silk and fine-twined linen. Mosiah 10, Alma 1, Helaman 6, Ether 10. If there were cold seasons, one would expect to find descriptions of them making clothing out of animal pelts, or fleece, since they had plenty of sheep.
The principal voice of the truth is Joseph Smith. Period. Rod does a great job representing Joseph. Heartland is not a theory...I didn't even know people were still buying into ... theory.
"...shafts in the whirlwind...." Anyone who has seen the aftermath of a severe tornado knows that bits of straw can be driven into telephone poles like arrow shafts. Imagine what it would do to your body. Sand, gravel and more, like shotgun pellets and bullets, driven at incredible speeds, into EVERYTHING.
Unless they kept migrating and naming places the same names as they traveled, it’s a hard to believe it’s multi continent. However, I am not arrogant enough to think I couldn’t be wrong. We will all be shocked at the things we thought we knew that were completely off (scientifically) when we pass into the next life.
That intro was so excellent! Rod was speaking like Dwayne Johnson posing a challenge! I worked with Brill on a small film called Defiance of Law and he is an absolutely stand up guy. Also this conversation could have been a solid hour if Rod and Brill were given the time.
One thing to consider is that during the winter time in areas like New York life came to a near halt including wars. That doesn’t really change until the Industrial Revolution. WWI was the first major war that didn’t slow down or cease fire in the frigid months of winter. In fact during the American Revolution, War of 1812, & Civil Wars both sides tried to not engage in any conflict at all. Now let’s look at The Book of Mormon; a good portion of the record is only happening while they are either fighting or traveling when it would be warmer weather. I would also like to pose a hypothetical. Most of the reason we even started looking at the Meso Model is because of evidence that Christ visited them. When talking about it I almost never hear anyone mention the fact that Christ told the Nephites the same thing he told his followers in Judea when he left; that he was going to visit other sheep.
Of the two tornadoes in Guatemala found with a quick search, one reportedly had winds reaching 100mph, which qualifies it as an F1. Not saying it means they’re common, but it’s not unheard of for there to be tornadoes, hail, or even occasional snowfall in Central America. Tornadoes are frequent in areas of all continents of the globe, and if the Wikipedia map is to be believed, the areas in North America where they are most common include northern Mexico. I’m curious to hear where Meldrum draws the line on the map dividing the heartland from meso America.
The "East wind" is an Old Testament term which the BOM writers would be familiar with from the Brass Plates. It is in reference to the hot dry winds that sometimes come from the Eastern desert, into the land of Israel and cause drought, famine, and pestilence. In short, it means the judgments of God upon a wicked people. I suppose it could describe hurricanes, but hurricanes hit Central America, too.
Would they have known that Jeremiah 44 claims Egypt will become a "Desolation"? Have you ever considered that Helaman 3:6 is referring to Egypt? Egypt is "treeless", they build stone temples ("cement") and "ship" Lebanon Cedar? Nothing like that sounds like Guatemala or Canada. It sounds like they were using the Biblical Desolation from Jeremiah 44.
The Bible also mentions “white as snow” as does Job and many other prophets in the Bible. Why? Israel does experience snow fall on rare occasions. There’s no reason why Nephi isn’t pulling his experiences from scriptures on the brass plates in his own experiences Israel.
@@eirrenia True but why did no one after Nephi use it as an analogy? Also Nephi started the large plates shortly after leaving Jerusalem, and the vision of the tree of life happened during that time. The small plates could be referencing what was written in those plates. Also, snow is present in meso America on mountain peaks so it's possible that Nephi did not feel the need to change it. Anyway, I find it more telling that no else after Nephi used snow as an analogy.
@@danielbmarsh I don’t care one way or another, I was just pointing out the flaw in your statement. And absence of one thing or another may be indicative, but it it’s not the same as proof.
What is the equivalent of the Sorenson 'An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon' for the heartland - Is there a book that analyzes the internal evidences of the Book of Mormon and gives a similar treatment that Sorenson does? Bonus if the writer is an archeologist/anthropologist by training, but I'd love to see a similar book-length treatment that has some serious peer-review behind it like Sorenson.
Iowa winters can be harsh, too, often going below 0º. And the snow doesn't melt off. My kids were playing in the backyard in January and my son lost his glasses in the snow. He didn't find them until March when the snow melted off enough to be exposed again.
snow is found mentioned in 1 Nephi of course ...because Lehi's family knew what snow was. Snow is not uncommon in Jerusalem and the surrounding area. oops
In 1816, J Smith's family walked from Vermont to NY for the SAME reason that Mary Shelley wrote FRANKENSTEIN in Lord Byron's mansion in Switzerland. Any one know this WORLD SHAKING event???
Congrats! You are obviously erudite and enlightened. Tambora erupted due to the cosmic ray increased flux caused by the Dalton Grand Solar Minimum (GSM). The sun's behavior birthed both Frankenstein and the LDS church. We entered into a new GSM a few years ago. Get prepared for new surprises.
We lean Heartland and follow Rod Meldum. We listen to the Mesoamerica material. The Hopewell civilization seems to line up better than the Olmec civilization.
Actually the Olmec line up chronologically with the Jaredites. One big problem with the Heartland is the lack of a Jaredite civilization. The earliest they have starts in 500 BC. Much too late.
@@jerrygrover8992 The Jaredites started in Ethiopia and ended in Israel. The Book of Ether is the Ethiopian Genesis. It describes how Israel became the Land of Milk and Honey when the Jaredites migrated there from the Garden of Eden. Ethiopia is the Garden of Eden according to Genesis 2:13. Lehi returned to Ethiopia as he was commanded to do in the Tree of Life Vision. These journeys are just up and down the Nile River. The Nile River is in the Tree of Life Vision.
1 Nephi 11 as evidence for snow in Heartland BOM geography? Seriously? CONTEXT! 1 Nephi 11 is being written by Nephi who had just left Jerusalem so the white as snow reference has NO reference to the Heartland .
Not that I’m a Heartlander. I don’t have an opinion (Meso-America or Heartland) either way. Remember, Mormon took from many plates and records and abridged those plates and records (took the important parts that God had inspired him to put into the Gold Plates). Weather (hail, rain, snow, storms, flooding, etc.) could have been written on the many plates and records, but not much placed in the abridged plates by Mormon. Also, portions of the Gold Plates were sealed when Joseph Smith received them. Just my thoughts.
“East wind” I cant count on my fingers how many times the bible references “east wind”💨🍃 Im starting to feel bad for for his sloppy research is the heartland thing. Thank you for clarifying. The "east wind" is mentioned in several passages of the Bible. It is often associated with God's judgment or as a metaphor for destruction or adversity. Here are a few notable instances: 1. Exodus 14:21: In this passage, the east wind is mentioned as the means by which God parted the waters of the Red Sea, allowing the Israelites to escape from Egypt. 2. Job 27:21: Job speaks of the east wind as a metaphor for the calamity brought upon the wicked. It is described as "a sweeping tempest that carries them away." 3. Ezekiel 17:10: The prophet Ezekiel describes the Babylonians as a great eagle bringing devastation upon Jerusalem by the east wind. This represents the judgment and destruction that would come upon the city. The east wind is usually depicted as a force that brings about challenges or judgment, often seen as a means through which God works. Its significance varies depending on the context in which it is mentioned within the text.
“Thick clothing” I don’t know how more misleading he can be. Alma 43:19 is the only place I can find that brings up “thick clothing”and of course its referring to warfare. “19 And when the armies of the Lamanites saw that the people of Nephi, or that Moroni, had prepared his people with breastplates and with arm-shields, yea, and also shields to defend their heads, and also they were dressed with thick clothing”
Yeah I'm a heartlander but this was not the point to make. There are many better arguments like migrating animals. The fact that there is such active opposition to the heartland model from combinations is incriminating enough.
A lot of people say that the heartlander model is more about artifact trade than anything. I find many compelling arguments in favor of it, but also some worries about the motive of this model. I guess the same goes for meso-america as well. Regardless there is no reason why it couldn’t be about both civilizations and is more of a prophetic narrative about the ancient inhabitants of America as well as a prophecy for our day and what will happen to America and the Gentiles if they don’t repent. Glad to get physical evidence, but evidence does not mean proof at all. The Book of Mormon is more than a history. It is a prophecy. And the sooner we as a Church get that, the mysteries of God will be unlocked before our eyes and the scales of darkness fall off.
The Book of Mormon taking place in North America has always been common sense to me. 1) why would the golden plates be found in New York if they were written in Meso America? 2) the BoM talks multiple times about being in the promised land… and talks about all the the miracles that would happen in that land… we have too much evidence to not think it’s in America! MERICA BABY!
Love the outfit. I now want Cardon to dress like the Mayan at the time of the Book of Mormon. However, there is only one mural that shows the dress of Mayan at the time of the Book of Mormon (San Bertolo). With this mural, the men wear a loincloth, jewelry, and sometimes a headdress.
First off, despite the climate alarmist propaganda, the earth was much warmer in the past than it is now. The medieval warm period was warmer, and around the time of Christ it was warmer still. Now, if the climate was warm enough to grow grapes in Scotland during the medieval warm period, what would it have been like at the time the Nephites were in the Northern US? I'm guessing Vermont was warmer than it was in White Christmas. Nobody was having a white Christmas!
You can't say he didn't try. Nephi using the word snow in his vision before he even left the Arabian Peninsula hardly counts as talking about snow in The Book Of Mormon. Besides they get snow on top of the mountains in Mesoamerica, so that proves nothing, it's just grasping at straws. Tornados or whirlwinds do NOT require flat ground, the one in Salt Lake City was neither on flat ground nor too small to carry away someone. It snapped a crane working on the Conference Center, and that was just a glancing blow. And there were two other smaller tornadoes in the Salt Lake Valley within the year. Though not as common, tornadoes can happen ANYWHERE, as long as you have warm air on the ground level with cold air above. And with all the Jungles cleared for farming and raising flocks you would have plenty of open land. Strike two. Then you try to use a report that a Native American was naked in winter as evidence. But have you looked at the range of what is called naked today? And at the time of the Pioneers they covered themselves considerably more, so someone with short sleeves could have been considered naked. Again the evidence doesn't hold up. Strike three. Now look at the Heartland models maps and look at the seismic maps of the United States Of America, and you will see very little earthquake activity, and none of it even close to the earth being broken up, and found in fragments, and in seams and in cracks upon the whole face of land. And all the seismic activity they cite as evidence for the Heartland models is located ONLY in Lamanite areas, or farther South, depending on which Heartland model map, none close enough to have ANY effect on the areas connected to Nephites. No rough places made smooth or smooth places made rough. The closest mountain to their best example of an earthquake was barely felt. And by the time it reached anything that could remotely be considered a Sea, it was undetectable, so absolutely NO cities sunk in the depths, for which you have to go a considerably far distance from shore to find depths ANYWHERE along the Eastern shore line or the Gulf Of Mexico. The only mountains in the Heartland models are extremely old, and have only been eroding since long before The Book Of Mormon events took place. So there's definitely nowhere where a mountain came up in the place of any cities in the Heartland. There certainly weren't any highways broken up, not with their hifhways just being well traveled paths. And all this just barely scratches the surface of problems that can't be overcome using the Heartland models.
I love my heartland friends. The model works well if you have Young Earth Creationist beliefs. For the growing majority of people who accept academic authority or Old Earth or evolutionist worldviews, the Mesoamerican model is much more defensible for the Book of Mormon. The models appeal to people with very different worldviews, and trying to compare them is a waste of time. We definitely should NOT disparage each other
I agree. It's strange how closely tied it seems to be that Heartlanders are Creationists and Mesoamericans are evolutionists. I lean towards Heartland, but I think the Mesoamericans make some pretty compelling arguments for themselves.
@@paulblack1799 Im not sure I follow you but my point is that "Heartlanders" and "Mesomodelers" need each other more than they think because they speak to different audiences. I didn't make any scientific claims fyi
I personally believe that it wasn’t as confined, and was spread out throughout the American continents. Maybe not everywhere, but possibly more spread out than the other theories would say. It’s more a theory than a belief, it seems possible, and I haven’t done a huge amount of research 🤷♀️
Alma 22 there were many Lamanites on the east by the seashore, whither the Nephites had driven them. And thus the Nephites were nearly surrounded by the Lamanites; ... and thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were nearly surrounded by water, there being a small neck of land between the land northward and the land southward. Wherever it was they were nearly surrounded by water. I don't see that in ... "Heartland" lol Someone show me a map there that makes any sense at all.
Alma 22:32 is describing Africa. Herodotus claimed a sailor explored and mapped Africa in 600 BC. He said that sailor discovered: Asia is Desolation (mostly). Egypt is narrow. There's a "Sea to Sea" feature at the narrow place. The "Distance" across the narrow place is defined (in miles) and he said Africa is "bounded by the sea". These terms are all repeated in Alma 22:32. The line Bountiful / Desolation is the separation of Asia and Africa at the Isthmus of Suez. The Narrow Neck of Land is always the Isthmus of Suez. The Sea East and the Sea West are the Mediterranean and the Red Sea. The distance is described (converted to days instead of miles). The "surrounded by water" part is what the sailor discovered. The sailor discovered Africa can be sailed around. The sailor Herodotus was talking about is Lehi himself. Lehi circumnavigated Africa and returned to Egypt. Lehi never left the Old World. When Lehi journeyed from the Red Sea to the river in 3 days, he crossed the Isthmus of Suez and entered Egypt. The River is the Nile. This 3 day journey was documented by Carsten Niebuhr in 1762 between Aug. 28th and 30th. Once on the Nile in Egypt Lehi knew he would be destroyed according to Jeremiah 44. He then has the Tree of Life Vision that guided him up the Nile to Ethiopia which is the Garden of Eden according to Genesis 2:13. Helaman 3 is a description of a migration back to Egypt. The Nephites were destroyed in Egypt, on the Nile, just as the Angel tells Nephi in 1 Nephi 12:16. The destruction happens on the same river as the one in the Tree of Life Vision, that's the Nile. The "Desolation" in Helaman 3:6 is Egypt (read Jeremiah 44). The "treeless" land to the North with "cement" and "shipping" is Egypt. It's not Guatemala and it's not Canada. The Book of Ether is the Ethiopian Genesis. The Jaredites took Milk and Honey from the Garden of Eden in Ethiopia and ended in Israel, the Biblical land of Milk and Honey. They sailed down the Nile to Egypt then continued out in the ocean to Israel, the original Promise Land. Omer migrated back to Ethiopia long before Lehi did. Moroni makes several connections between Omer and Lehi like how they were both "stoned murdered and cast out" and how they both came unto the "fountain of righteousness". Omer is the "prophet of old" mentioned in 1 Nephi 1:20.
6:10 nobody “programmed” me; that’s why I don’t care where it happened. 6:42 The vision of the Tree of Life was while yet in the old world. And Isaiah used snow to demonstrate cleansing of sin. That’s not “proof” of anything.
Wasn’t Mormon’s propose in compiling and writing The Book of Mormon to quote the spiritual things and bring people to Christ? My guess is that weather details may have been described on other historical plates, for example, Nephi’s large plates.
East wind is a concept from Israel. No question about that. In the old testament, which they would have in the bronze plates. May also be a North American thing, but it would find r sure be a scriptural image for the BoM people.
Oh, that isn't the only reason. The Hill Cumorah in New York is not the Hill Cumorah in the Book of Mormon and was not called the Hill Cumorah until the mid-1830s, long after Joseph had retrieved the plates from the hill. There’s no evidence from the 1820s and 30s that Joseph Smith ever called this the Hill Cumorah. Oliver Cowdery was the one who started calling it “Hill Cumorah” and it caught on and became the name the Saints culturally assigned to the hill. The first time Joseph Smith calls it Cumorah, which is recorded in Doctrine and Covenants section 128, is after the membership had already started calling it by that name, and Latter-day Saints have been calling it Cumorah ever since. This idea came from Mormon 6:6 which says “…I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord…” If you stop reading there, then you could say Joseph found the plates in this hill because Mormon said he buried them in the Hill Cumorah. However if you read the rest of the verse it says “…I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, *save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.”* In other words, Mormon buried all of the records he had in the hill Cumorah *except* the Book of Mormon record, which was later buried by Moroni. So the hill Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon is literally the place where Mormon or Moroni says the golden plates *are not* buried. It also doesn’t match what the Book of Mormon says geographically. Mormon says that they go north past the narrow neck of land and that the Lamanites gave them land north of the narrow neck of land (Mormon 2:3, 20, 29), later he mentions Cumorah in Mormon 6. This very clearly identifies Cumorah to be above the narrow neck of land. In the Heartland model the Narrowneck of Land is supposed to be the Buffalo New York/ Niagara Falls area. The Hill Cumorah in Palmyra New York is directly east of Buffalo, like not even northeast but almost perfectly east of it. And would be situated in the land southward. Those 2 details disqualify the hill in New York to be the same one that is talked about in the Book of Mormon. This also brings up another huge contradiction, the Book of Mormon says the narrowneck of land is supposed to divide the Land Northward from the Land Southward (Alma 22:31-32, Alma 50:34, Alma 63:5, Mormon 2:29). In the Heartland model, the narrowneck of land doesn’t at all divide the land Northward from the Land Southward. Oh and there is more, Alma 63 talks of a guy, Hagoth, building ships and sailing from the west sea and coming back once and then these people were never being heard from again. Alma 63:5-6 says that they launched into *WEST SEA by the NARROW NECK* which led into the land northward and traveled northward. The heartland model has Lake Michigan being the west sea talked about. Lake Michigan is roughly 200 miles away from Buffalo. You can’t travel west and northward by water in Lake Erie or Ontario by launching from Buffalo. Lake Michigan also isn't that big and can be traveled around so it does create a weird issue of why they were never heard from again, especially because this is Mormon writing this centuries later. And the fact that multiple Prophets have said Polynesians are descendants of Hagoths group, you can't travel from Lake Michigan to the Pacific by water going west. There is also a weird thing here where Moroni wandered around for ~36 years just for him to go all the way back when he could have just hidden them there before he left (Mormon says it was 384 AD in Mormon 6:5 and Moroni says the year is 400 AD in Mormon 8:6, later says another it is now 420 AD in Moroni 10:1 before he buries the plates). The Heartland Model is complete garbage that contradicts the Book of Mormon in so many different ways, There is absolutely no way to put the Hill Cumorah in New York as being the same one in the Book of Mormon without ignoring what the Book of Mormon says.
@@vendingdudes Spoken just like any evangelical who thinks they're right but can never actually back it up because in reality they are completely wrong.
Several prophets and general authorities made it very clear that the inspired man mentioned in 1 Nephi 13:12 was none other than Christopher Columbus, and Christopher Columbus never stepped foot in North America, but rather Central America😊
No other country meets the 1 Nephi 13 description of gentile Nation than the US of A. I'll believe that part of the book.A mormon could have happened in Mexico or Central America. When the united states of america takes control of the land.
He never set foot in central America. He set foot in the West indies Island chain. There is some speculation that he my have landed doe water nearer or on Florida or the Keys on one of his follow up voyages. But never central or south america
@@tjedwards4254it’s going the other way, our southern neighbors are going to take over. America will be brought to her knees within the next 2-10 years. Then it will be completely humbled, impoverished, war torn, and left desolate (of the spirit). It’s what happens when covenant people leave their covenants behind for only fans fame and fortune. Shallow integrity, will meet shallow graves.
@@devenlittle2106 The only thing correct in your comment is that he set foot in the West Indies, everything else is completely false. Christopher Columbus 3rd voyage had him sail down from modern Guatemala down to Panama and in his 4th voyage he sailed between Venezuela and the island of Trinidad and Tobago. He never got close to Florida.
I decided to try creamy cocunt dr.pepper. i don't recommend it. Cardon started looking real weird. he was covered in a flag and had a big flag hat on. is this what happens when you quit caffiene and sugar awhile then drink dr.pepper.? i am not sure where The Book of Mormon happened. but, I got a feeling Cardin will find out.
The narrow neck of land of South America did not even exist 2000 years ago. The land around it wasn’t underwater at the time. Have Rod please give me a call!
@@heartfacingupward Yes because I am over 2000 years old. Obviously not bud, however things like this can be measured and no real scientist would say that Panama wasn't there 2000 years ago
@@dylanwilliams2202 I wonder if it is plausible, not impossible. Panama’s small island of Gardi Sugdub, is slowing slipping under the sea, Silently over time, they say 50 years it will be fully submerged. It is being framed, of course as Global warming. A few major sunken cities (and forests) off the coast of Louisiana, Belize, Cuba, Bimini Islands, are now submerged with all their grand South American style pyramids. Some of the Coastal areas of Florida are slipping away as the ground beneath is dissolving away. When you look at the depths of the waters they happen match the depths that surround the Country of Panama, the Gulf Coasts, and other Caribbean Island, and Interior South American Coastlines as well. Raise them up. Panama doesn't disappear, its coastline changes and it becomes a larger country. Third Nephi indicates a few earth changes happened. A few cities were sunken. Not just a single city in the heart of a lake. (if you have to consider one then you must consider all. Avoid Bias.) The land changed. Consider a Central and South American culture that mingled on dry land that existed at the time, with those sunken cities now fully in their place above the water, with the North American Culture, in trade, blending communities, cultural and traditional changes that can occur within it. These guys were not savage renegades, they were intelligent expansive cultures. If Abraham knew the patterns of the constellations and could read the heavenly bodies. Let's consider the same intelligence existed among these cultures as well. Well advanced within their time. Also, consider the influence of some savagery such as human sacrifices creeping in. Secret Combinations, cultural and territorial conflicts and wars. Personally, I believe it can all fit. Mind you, it is not the frame of my testimony, but rather the roots of a mind filled with possibility. But then, so was the Meso-American model.
And no credible model has Panama as the narrow neck of land-it is far more than 3 days march across. It only looks narrow on a map of the Western Hemisphere!
He was doing as commanded in Jeremiah 44:28. He was returning the Nephite record to Israel to confirm that Jews that escaped to Africa were destroyed. By doing this he reunited the Stick of Joseph with the Stick of Judah just as Ezekiel prophesized. Cumorah is Moriah. The Book of Mormon takes place in Africa. The stick of Joseph is a reference to Joseph that was sold in to Egypt.
@@redfightblue Hey bud, that's enough with your crackpot theories. Nothing in Africa matches the Book of Mormon and it would completely contradict what Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon says.
@@dylanwilliams2202 I assume we've chatted before? LOL The BOM is 100% written by Ethiopian Jews. Alma 22:32 describes Africa in identical terms as Herodotus did. The Tree of Life guided Lehi up the Nile to Ethiopia (Genesis 2:13). Helaman 3 is a perfect description of Egypt (It even calls it "Desolation" like Jeremiah 44). Jews never sailed to America anciently. If there's a crackpot theory out here, that's it. Ask anyone.
@@redfightblue _"The BOM is 100% written by Ethiopian Jews"_ No it doesn't. Everything you said is just complete garbage akin to Flat Earthers. Ethiopia was a country and/or area known by the Jews/Israelites and is mentioned several times in the Bible. Nephi would have known or at the very least someone later on would have mentioned Jerusalem and Judah as Ethiopia very much would have been known. Nothing in the internal geography matches Africa. The route the brother of Jared goes is north or the complete opposite way of Africa. The fact I have to do this is honestly laughably sad. _"Alma __22:32__ describes Africa in identical terms as Herodotus did."_ I can almost guarantee you that without having read anything about this guy that you are straight up lying. Again, no description matches any point in Africa. _"The Tree of Life guided Lehi up the Nile to Ethiopia (Genesis 2:13"_ No it doesn't and quoting a random scripture with Ethiopia in it doesn't support you. _"Helaman 3 is a perfect description of Egypt"_ Not even a close match of Egypt nor would it make any sense for it being Egypt. Had you actually read Helaman 3 then you would see that these people are settling a land void of people, Egypt has always been inhabited. It also says that the only thing it was void of was trees, doesn't say anything about sand. Like, this is just you grasping at straws. _"It even calls it "Desolation" like Jeremiah 44)"_ This is a ridiculous point. Jeremiah calls the land "Desolation" because of the wickedness of the Jews, not because there was no one up there like the Book of Mormon says. _"Jews never sailed to America anciently"_ Technically, yea because Lehi and family were from the tribe of Manasseh and therefore not Jews LOL. Buddy, it's time to come back to reality. Joseph Smith and Moroni both indicated that it was about the Americas. Joseph Smith brought forth a record of an ancient american civilization, not African. It wouldn't be surprising to find a record from Africa but it isn't the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith didn't lie, your perception of him is completely nonsensical. Joseph Smith brought forth an ancient record but lied about it constantly? Like cmon now, that makes no sense.
HEY WILL YOU GUYS DO A REPLY VIDEO TO CONNOR BOYACKS YOU TUBE VIDEO TITLED “”” IDAHO SAINTS REBUKED FOR NOT FOLLOWING THE PROPHET””””. It’s just NUTS. Thanks for reviewing that video but man right up your alley guys. Blessings
