The New Armor Changes To Tank Are Bigger Than You Think In Overwatch 2 

Nothing against Cactuspuppy, or your decoding, these numbers don't seem right to me. Maybe they are, but I REALLY hope they aren't... Maybe the Workshop is bugging for random characters. It almost looks to me like some people are just negating the armor after the changes that were made. I really wouldn't know, but I have heard workshop can be really buggy...

⁠@@smellssmell2488 The new armor is overall a lot worse, but is now better against low-damage-pellets (Tracer Pistols, Ramattra Void Accelerator, LW Thorn Volley, etc.) The only abilities that negate the armor change are beams, of which there’s very few so idk what you really mean.

Look at all the sources of damage which deal up to 42% extra body shot damage! Especially DoTs. Only a few sources of damage deal less headshot damage, mainly tanks like DVa, Doomfist, Mauga, Roadhog, Wrecking Ball. Nearly all other sources deal the same headshot damage. I really think they should've just nerfed Reaper and Bastion and called it a day.

shouldnt they have done this the otherway nerfing burst dmg in some way and allowing multi pellets to pass through since bastion reaper etc. were desgined to be tank killers and the big issue is just the amount of burst dmg we been getting from other sources as well

Finally Winston gets to have fun I'm tired of the entire team counter swapping against me Try playing Winton into Hoad rog Bastion Reaper Ana Brig Winton deserves this and you know it

You should be terrified of monke

welcome to overwatch....they'll over power tanks to point you can't kill them.

Also he doesn't headshot anyway, so less headshot damage on the enemy tank doesn't matter

@@thedude0000 get with the times old man

also its not punishing skill, like ur still headshoting, its still more damage than a body shot. It was never a good argument to begin with

It’s like everyone gets a 1.5 headshot multiplier I feel like it should probably be 20% as characters like illari when they headshot now do like only 8 more dmg now 😜 which is crazy id recommend anyone that plays illari after these changes go live, just go for body shots Or they should nerf her bodyshot to 70 and give her 1.75/2x headshot multiplier If it’s too strong I’d nerf her projectile size very slightly as it’s 1.3 metres rn which is pretty forgiving tbh if it were 1.1

“Punishing skill” by doing less damage to arguably the biggest sized characters in the game is stupid. Ain’t no skill in shooting at a brick wall but 2 specific bricks in the wall.

You still are rewarded, even more now, for headshotting the opponent. Nothing changes here, but players who lay body shots will definitely feel it. The difference isn't whether you headshot or not, it's about the consistent damage in the end and the ability to finish off.

@@alphaluc1008I disagree. It is punishing skill, not saying it is good for the game or not. But saying you do 25% damage than you should for a headshot means someone who headshots 100% of the time vs a noob who only hits body shots. The good player hitting headshots isn’t being rewarded as they should

Is there somewhere we can ger a link to this doc?

@@ExTeeBee I'd love to share a link if I can, but I'm pretty sure that RU-vid's (lovely) automated moderation would bop me for posting a link. I'll try and see if I can get Flats to post a pinned comment with the spreadsheet link!

​@@CactusPuppyhey are these coming changes, or were they implemented last patch?

Isn't the armor rule applied last, after any damage modifiers? So wouldn't that mean Tracer's headshot damage would be 4.5 instead of 5.25? Since 12 * 0.75 = 9 for the tank's headshot passive, and then a further 50% for armor, resulting in 4.5, rather than 12 - 5 = 7, then * 0.75 = 5.25?

Could you split the new armor column into two for the headshot ones? One with “new armor,” one with “new armor plus tank passive”?

But that’s only for pellet hero’s, burst hero’s like Mcree, widow and soj do more damage now

​@sr_aron yes and no. For the most part, headshots deal equivalent damage to current patch. The difference is that the damage reduction will apply to white health too. So to get the full Damage reduction on old armor you needed an equivalent amount of armor health. So heroes with less than 100 armor are taking less damage from sojourn and widow while heroes with 200+ armor are taking similar damage. For bodyshots/things that can't crit, it is a full damage increase. But dieing to body shots is really difficult on tank right now and is why metal rank tanks can feel unkillable. Tldr: they flattened the tdk between bodyshots and headshots to eliminate the extremes.

Good honestly, if a D.Va is being pocketed, there's very obviously a better target nearby.

Yeah it's a poorly built spreadsheet. I was going to make my own until I saw this guy was making it, but he's been incredibly slow and showing it in weird context. So kind of wish I did make it... just was expecting him to make it faster then this. DVA - 350HP, 375 ARMOR ORISA - 275 HP, 350 ARMOR REIN - 400 HP, 300 ARMOR WINSTON - 375 HP, 250 ARMOR MAUGA - 525 HP, 200 ARMOR BALL - 600 HP, 150 ARMOR RAM - 425 HP, 100 ARMOR HOG - 800 HP SIGMA - 625 HP ZARYA - 550 HP DOOM - 525HP JQ - 525 HP So DVA, Orisa, Rein, Winston will be less effective against hero's like Hanzo, Cassidy, Torb Primary, Mei Icicle, Pharah Rocket, etc.. who might chunk their hp, but stronger vs any shotgun hero's like JQ, Hog, Reaper and low damage hero's like Sojurn, Reaper, Tracer, Sombra, DVA, Mauga etc.. HOG, Sigma, Zarya, Doom, JQ will not be effected at all by these changes, but will benefit from the 25% headshot situation. Overall these changes feel fairly well balanced more then I had expected. My only situation I think might be a bit busted is Cassidy's Fan Hammer into Tanks like Winston, Rein, Orisa will likely be very strong or even Mauga. Torb is just as effective, but... a lot harder to do the same. Also Soldier who is typically also a "Tank Shooter" will see a slightly buff to initial armor, not by much but instead of 30% reduction to damage it's like 27% reduction. Headshot would be 24.75 damage instead of former 25.2 so a slight nerf to headshot damage but a slight buff to body damage. Also Torb does have "some" armor so he will be a bit stronger vs dive hero's like Sombra/Tracer for instance or even reaper a little. Which torb was already good for all of these hero's to begin with. Mixed with JQ/Ball nerfs I still feel Dive will be strongly meta w/ JQ+Torb/Cassidy likely being popular choices and more then like Hanzo/Echo will make some headway of the buffs are good.

"It means healing armor is more valuable than healing white hp." It's always been like that though lol, not a problem imo

Cry more

@@rudycruz1461 haha how old are you ? not past the age of 14 huh

*Cries as Doomfist*

@@daunzy4740 ?? Doomfist is getting a flat buff my being tankier against headshots, and a small nerf in the damage his left click does against Armor. (Aka brig Bastion tanks and Torb). His cd damage should go up against Armor. Doom benefits from this.

@ryanager8029 It's a net nerf to him because the hand cannon shots you mentioned and the 25% damage reduction against headshots make it to where it takes longer to empower his punch during block if he gets headshotted

@@daunzy4740 taking less damage overall helps that. He's nerfed when shooting other tanks, but as Doom you don't want to do that anyway. In scenarios where he is attacking squishies, the armor changes shouldn't effect him and the headshot passive will increase his survivability.

​@sino_diogenes well it's impossible to punch a tank off a cliff now, and overall he gained the least in tankiness out of any of the tanks.

against bastion i go dva and pray my team takes him down before matrix runs out.

Yeah I think that’s the big thing people aren’t considering as much. Tanks can usually counterplay a big damage ability or shot but what’s the counterplay against bastion turret, like you literally just hide in a corner for 8 seconds and prey he doesn’t find you. There isn’t really a way to block his damage in the same way as a rail or arrow.

Yup, the actual important value would be the percentage increase/decrease of what damage does at the moment to what it will do after the change, comparing it to the value pre-armor is just useless data.

Just finished the video, so the same goes for the graph. I personally see no point in comparing the absolute reduction change percentage points because it doesnt paint a clear picture on what that would translate to in a real match. A 20% reduction increase makes it sound like you have to do 20% more damage compared to prepatch which is wrong.

@@thomas4489 Thanks for the feedback! The intention was to paint a picture of how armor is changing relative to normal health, since I assumed everyone was familiar with the idea that armor decreases incoming damage by 30% flat no matter the damage instance, so the delta change in the rightmost column was moreso just to show how attacks were changing relative to each other. However, that being said, your reasoning about being more concerned about how much more or less damage is being done against armor pre- and post-patch makes a ton of sense, so I'll be editing the spreadsheet to look at those statistics first and foremost. Let me know if you think there's anything else that I should change!

⁠@@CactusPuppyOh no problem, i should thank you for taking out the time of your day to even make such an elaborate spreadsheet. Im glad you didnt take my constructive critisism personally. Changing that particular column to relative percentual change to prepatch damage is probably the only thing id change. And maybe move the B column next to the F column and C,D,E each one to the left so all damages are next to eachother. So thanks again for doing that work for the community. I hope you have a wonderful day/evening.

@@thomas4489 Great suggestions! I've implemented them in the spreadsheet. Have a lovely aftermornin'noondaynight yourself o7

I feel like widow and sojourn need nerfs anyway

@@haku4841this is actually a buff for them

​@@tesla6938my brain isn't working yet, I just woke up. Can you explain how this is a buff for them? I'm still wrapping my head around the changes.

@@dylancrosby2451 old armor was a flat 30% reduction now it’s minus 5 dmg per projectile up to fifty percent reduction, so high damage single projectiles will do quite a bit more damage while spread/ low dmg multi projectile attacks will be the same or less

@@tesla6938 ohhhh why is this now just finally clicking in my brain. Idk if it's the way you worded it but it finally makes sense 😂 thanks gotcha. I'll have to test it out because it seems like its both a nerf and a buff to ball (who i play), so it might change my positioning and target priority.

Pfft. Good one.

Add Venture as well and this is what I'm thinking too. Basically season 10 mid patch is the rise of the explosive hero's for countering armored tanks. Against non armored tanks the other will still be your best options. Also metal ranked snipers getting body shots will be potentially huge...

Counter argument: You can actually play cover against Junk and Pharah. Reaper and Mei will just walk into you, and Bastion just destroys your shield and laughs. Regardless, it shakes up the meta, so I’m willing to try it.

Mei will be better against tanks with these changes

​@@haku4841 Mei does less damage though, with left click at least

Pharah was already a menace for most tanks anyway because most of them can't touch her.

ram have armor too, and his punch will do more damage on armor than before, it is just his primary weapon that will be nerf against armor (and tank HS) but you can just target someone else (that you should alerady do since hitting the tank give less ult charge), target squishies for % punch the tank for the pressure and it is Win/Win

@@hypadao235 You're probably right, just have to adjust my playstyle. Typically what I do in this season is chip tanks resources with staff and then engage other enemies with nemesis form, because they can be more easily punished with it when they are out of position.

His punches got much better against armour wtf

Higher skill heroes to hit shots with in my opinion. I know, I know, everyone THINKS Junkrat is a zero skill hero. However we are talking about purposely hitting shots here. That makes Junkrat a higher skill hero than reaper and bastion combined. Leading shots and judging the distance because of arc and time to get to target. This is a buff to tank basically because it’s much harder to play Hanzo and Junkrat reliably than it is to play reaper and bastion.

won't really be a comp, more likely just couterswapping

This a big one! Pulse bomb does 350, brig had 350 health, armor reduces to 345.

Unfortunately people are generally ok with bastion being bad. It's pretty unfun when he is op

@bennettnez4711 All I ask from the devs is that they make the ultimate better because it's not fun having the worst ult in the game.

@@bossman4856 did you try mirrorwatch? The ult wasn't significantly better by any means but I thought it was at least more fun! Maybe they could do something like that. Feels like it should be changed more than just number tuned

@bennettnez4711 I feel like it needs two more shots, Or just give back the OW1 ult and it would be fixed.

@bennettnez4711 Or just reduce its cost, Because the way it works right now it's like a tracer pulse bomb. It's meant to kill one person.

You can turn numbers on in custom modes and stuff. These guys literally sit in those modes and test every match up with visual numbers to get content. And I appreciate it haha

But you have to remember, as Dva, your main targets aren’t anyone with armor. Usually Dva is chasing squishies. So it’s about the play style.

​@@WeightsssI'm high diamond on tank and I tend to spend half of my time diving backline and the other half peeling/dming dps. If they have a dive tank/dive centric comp then I'm spending a lot more time peeling. Dva is usually played as the counter to monkey, so if monkey doesn't have to worry about her (and reaper + bastion given the recent armour buffs), he's def going to be hard meta.

@@T0B1. "Dva is usually played as the counter to monkey, so if monkey doesn't have to worry about her (and reaper + bastion given the recent armour buffs), he's def going to be hard meta." As a winston player, cap, D.va is not "the counter" she's one of like 20 different counters. If winston becomes meta people will just play brig, mauga, hog, heroes he's literally useless against. People really overestimate how impactful these changes will be tank is just gonna be the same counter swap rock paper scissors it always was.

@@T0B1. Also flexing your rank on tank is just sad when the role is so dead. I literally got diamond from placements my first time playing comp in season 3 cause of how few tank players exist and now I'm in master with like 15 comp games played over the entirety of ow2. The rank system in this game is so cap especially for tank which is just beyond a dead role

The damage threshold to do more damage against armour is 17, so if any character that does 14 damage will go over the threshold with a Zen or Mercy.

But Zen opens a new can of worms because he is always going to discord the tank making them take 25% more damage.

Mauga will do less critical damage, less fire damage and less normal damage, meaning he is also healing less and gaining less overhealth while also being bursted down by Sojourn or Widow quicker. Mauga is getting giganerfed by this patch.

It seems that you don't understand how to play neither brig nor Lucio. Winston, ana and brig will be meta

well just guessing of course but to me I think brig looks like one of the people to benefit a lot from this. a lot of the tanks that benefit from these changes and people are saying will be op, brig denies their entire existence by just standing there

While I agree that this would look nice and communicate more intuatively when the armor is broken, in a game where you get healed into armor-health, have it broken, healed back into armor-health etc., it would add a lot of visual clutter. For now, we can just look at their health bars to see if they have orange in it or not :)

brig will be fine bro. she survives pulse bomb with rally now and she counters like 90% of the tanks that are supposed to be buffed by these changes. Relax they would never make brig bad

@@ironman1458 90% of tanks?

literally in the description.

@@bigfudge2031 Nowhere to be found in the description but Flats posted the link 13h ago, all good Thanks for the comment, I came back to check it!

I think you'd do the same damage because your other chaingun will be doing 1.5X damage as it doesnt headshot on fire enemies. so from 1X + 2X to 1.5X + 1.5X

Either way, it's funny to think about. Curious to see how he turns out

Could have to do with the fact that maugas crits take no skill unlike every other character on the roster. I admit it is strange though

And this is when I start playing sky ball to avoid traps, this is a meta I can deal with. Counterplay to stuns is what we need, no more sombra pleaaaaaaaaase. Invisible characters should not have no skill insta kill buttons, at least trap takes a bit of skill because you have to use prediction.

Cap

Not I'm gold. He's still useful. Game is played very different the higher tier you in

@@HemiJB91mid season hasn’t hit yet?

​​@@HemiJB91notice the comment you responded to has the word "once" in it.

Open queue is basically an arcade mode anyway. I wouldn’t take it into account for balance.

@@okami1272 lol true. Open queue feels like old Overwatch. You either love it or hate it. 😄 As a casual player, I think the fast queue time feels convenient.

@@kippbleu8289 It’s not even about loving or hating it, I just treat it as a goofy mode meant to provide crazy shenanigans.

Exactly I only aim the body on tanks anyway I never aim for the head (except for windowmaker) because it's easier to hit and most of them time players just outnumber the tank