Just wanted to say it, you guys blew me away with the amount of support that you have shown for this video. 270 of you guys checked out the premiere of this video when it went live, and there were so many kind words and donations that just were very kind. It was an unbelievable day to say the least. And as of now, the video has reached 40k in less than a week?! I cant even wrap my head around it! You guys just are constantly surpassing any expectation that I have with these videos, and I am truly thankful for all of your generosity! I am very much looking forward to the future of this channel, and that is something that only you guys could have given me. So I just wanted to say a very big Thank you to all of you! Thank you for watching, and thank you for your support!
It was an amazing video however I still would like to hear your thoughts on this: I had a question regarding the moment where Zack lives... Why was the Stamp sticker different? A complete different dog. IMO, this still implies a separate timeline as a whole. Its a missing piece still. Edit: I almost feel as if Zack surviving is a consequence of Sephiroth attempting to become whole again, rather than part of his plan to remove Cloud's motivation.
You have to understand something. You showed love and dedication to something WE are still in love with and dedicated to. That my friend...deserves honor
I can’t believe Nomura took the line “I will never be a memory” and based Remake Sephiroth's entire story around that. Well done man. What an amazing theory.
Lol yeah thats a whole world of creativity in itself to do what they are doing (What it seems like at least.) Thank you! And thank you for watching! ;)
@@Sleepezi Jokes aside, this was an amazing theory and an amazing video. This is the only one that I actually 100% believe as you’ve done a lot of research from the entire compilation and made amazing connections between the themes and symbolisms present in FFVII. If the future parts of Remake continue like this and don’t make the time travel aspect some lazy and solely action-based plot point but instead an emotional drama aspect between Cloud and his friends like you’ve depicted, this could be a really good plot. The only things I’m wondering are how Sephiroth was still able to survive after Advent Children and how he influenced Zack’s survival. But this is a great video and looking forward to more!
@@Cetra29 Was gonna say that too. Overall theme is collaborated on by the og three Nojima, Nomura and Kitase. But then it's majorly Nojima who's been writing the actual story since the beginning-novels-AC-Crisis Core-Remake-further novels-future. I just really hope Nojima gets to finish the entirety of the story and they don't have to swap out to someone else like with DoC, XV and/or KH3, seems like people taking Nojima's base and expanding rarely works out great.
So if I'm getting all this straight, in the canon of the remake, the events of the original happened, but "right now" Sephiroth is using Cloud's memories of him to get the timeline re-written and free himself from the control of Jenova. With that framing in mind, any difference between the original and the remake can thus be attributed to either Cloud's unstable psyche, or Sephiroth's meddling. As such, I have a question for everyone here : Why is Jessie such a flirt?
Either Sephiroth wanted another rival for Cloud's attention or Cloud is still pretty much Zack and wants every girls to fall in love with him in some way or another. ...and it is cannon !
@@Cetra29 You mean you take the view that Jenova is simply a non sentiant parasite ? That just tries to survive and everything that Sephiroth thinks he does in her name is actually taken from his own desire to actually make sense of his own existence and his insanity. Kinda like "the thing" from John Carpenter's movie ? If this is it, I love that pov because, even if the blame is partially to Jenova and Hojo who still has their own involvement in it, it doesn't exclude Sephiroth's responsabilities in the fall of meteor and the evil deeds he did since the Nibelheim incident.
@@viviv6774 No, Jenova is sentient but Jenova is nothing but an animal. A "chameleon." You said it. The Thing from "Who goes there?" is also not technically a villain. It imitates its prey because that is just its nature. Not out of malicious intent, greed, vegeance or anything. Now of course while Jenova and The Thing have much in common the also have much that differentiates them. But that they both are purely instinctive beings is a thing (no pun intended) that was shown in all media. Jenova is super intelligent. It can mimic shape, language and speech. But looking at it as "evil asshole" is nonsensical because it doesn't do what it does like an actual character. Do you see Sin in FFX as villain? Sin is not a villain. It operates on the programming it got from Yu-Yevon. That's exactly the same concept. You do not think a lion is a villain for killing its prey (except for Scar from Lion King e.g. but those human characteristics projected onto themselves.) Of couse in simple terms humans think "oh, that's bad for us so that is an asshole" but Sephiroth is the true villain of the story for exactly that reason: Because he adds the only evil thing to Jenova there is: A human version of it. Sephiroth's drive to do "what his mother did long ago" of course comes from the fact that he could not cope with his past ad he himself even said he always thought he was a wiz kid. Just that he did not expect that to be the reason. Then he discovered the false documents and thought he was chosen. THEN he realized, oh, not that but even better, he was produced with cells of not the Cetra but the being that almost completely eradicated them. The smugness that he had but never showed to much while he was a good guy got exponentially larger and he realized he could use everything he had to become a god (insert RPG anime plot here). So when people say "Jenova is evil, Jenova is the villain, Jenova controls Sephiroth" it is not true in the most literal sense. Jenova's instinct manifested in Sephiroth like our own sexual urges, hunger, etc. That stuff "controls" us as well. But Sephiroth very much is his own guy and is not puppeteered like people think all the time. Did evil start with Jenova? Yes. But not because it is evil but because "shit got real" then and because Shinra, the cliche asshole "big company/Star Wars empire" had evil plans that came from their own greed. So yes, Sephiroth is absolutely responsible for what he does. As Hojo said "As the genius I am I realized immediately, it was all Sephiroth's doing. Jenova's reunion and Sephiroth's will, brilliant." He even says Sephiroth wanted to make use of the clones/copies. The only reason why people all the time think Jenova is the main villain is because in the original has the line "You are just a puppet" which was retconned in AC to be from Sephiroth and because the guys realize the Sephiroth body they followed was Jenova's body. That it carried out Sephiroth's will is something the ignore. The Ultimania once even said that Jenova is emotionless and acts on instinct. The whole "making its prey marionettes" is simply "what it does," not something it does like a human would. And before anyone says "we do too", you very freaking well know what I mean. And that Sephiroth outclassed Jenova's will and is no prey is common knowledge and I do not understand why people still do insist on the opposite. Angeal also was able to control Jenova cells to a larger extent but he feared he would turn into a monster, "what brings pain to this world", at one point forcing Zack to kill him so Sephiroth is the only one who fully does it. Honestly I do not know why this video is praised so much because while yes, it is very long and has a lot of stuff in it the whole Jenova point is rendered void by the official material itself. It cannot get more clear than "it was Sephiroth, it was Sephiroth's will." Everything else is just purposely derailing what the story says. Or to be as literal as possible from Japanese: "I am a a genius, I understand it all. It was Sephiroth's act. Jenova's Reunion and Sephiroth's willpower!" 仕業 = An act related to somebody. The game literally used Sephiroth's name there. Sephiroth is the villain. He always was.
Not alive, separated by fate their connection severed destroyed Zack is still dead but his connection is severed to cloud, and partially it seems to Aerith since she seemed to recognise this
I think its something that happens to all of us at one point or another, finding this out about ourselves. Final Fantasy 7 Just did that story in a way more interesting and unique way. Love it. Thank you for watching :D
The fact that Cloud is even mimicking Zack's body language is a detail I never noticed conciously, but now that it's been brought to my attention, I am shook to my core over it.
I think the new twists with the reveal of ever crisis is that ... CLOUD died!! and Zacks guilt is what caused him to create this Imaginary cloud. Zack thourghout Reunion complains about his inability to save anyone. And his body language mimics could be as simple as it is zacks depiction of himself and how he would act.... need more digging but after that ever crisis gameplay reveal it is the only thing that makes sense to me as to how cloud transformed into Zack when hurt. But still early theory every crisis gameplay dropped like a day ago so this theroy wil need some fine tunning hahaah
Here's what I ultimately got from all this. Sephiroth knows that if Jenova has control over him, the events of FF7 would just reoccur as they originally did, and he'd be back to square one. He actively interferes with Cloud's life by using the Nibelheim vision early on to attempt to stall Cloud, making him miss the chance meeting with Aerith. The whispers intervene and stall Aerith to make sure she meets Cloud. These two forces constantly battle each other to keep the timeline the same to ensure Sephiroth repeats history and fails again, while Sephiroth attempts to subvert it so he can break free from Jenova's control so he can act of his own accord. You mention in the video that he uses memories to remind Cloud of himself, and so the version of Sephiroth that we see and that Cloud sees is how Cloud remembers him. Sephiroth wants his full self back. The only other person who knows Sephiroth extremely well and had humanized heart to heart conversations with Sephiroth was Zack, during the events of Crisis Core prior to the Nibelheim incident. He has played everyone to have Zack survive, so that he can manipulate him as well to get all his memories of who he was back instead of being a manifestation of only Cloud's memories of him. If this works out in his favor, Cloud will no longer have Zack's spiritual guidance as you mentioned, making him weaker and emptier. The same will become of Aerith, because ultimately it is Aerith who saves the planet via the Lifestream. I don't believe Sephiroth will kill her this time, at least not where we expect. I think this is specifically to subvert the audience's expectations, as Aerith dying is as common knowledge to players as Vader being Luke's father at this point. If she dies, she joins the Lifestream and becomes more powerful, once again being a variable that could destroy Sephiroth's plans, and he knows that now. This explains why he deliberately does not attack her directly, as he would just be setting himself up for repeat failure. It makes me wonder if in Remake Part 3, if the realization will hit everyone that if Zack and Aerith survive, Sephiroth wins, and that in order to correct the alternate flow of time, they will have to die via other means. We know that Cloud gives Sephiroth the Black Materia, as he is under his influence. If Zack and Aerith are alive, Cloud would be even weaker to resist his influence as he does not have their spiritual guidance. I think the craziest twist that still allows the events to play out the way they should is that Zack and Aerith ultimately either give themselves to the lifestream willingly, or in some twisted, mako poisoned, Jenova-mind-controlled state (as she would take control of Cloud instead of Sephiroth to accomplish her goals), Cloud ends up having to be the one to kill them to make sure that Sephiroth still fails. If this happens, the compilation of FF7 becomes an endless cycle, where the events of Crisis Core, FF7, Advent Children, and Remake repeat over and over in that same order. Cloud: "Stay where you belong...In my memories." Sephiroth: "I will...Never be a memory."
So the planet/the whispers who are corrupted by Jenova want the planet and the memories/lifestream to die. Sephiroth wants to be free from Jenova to become a God and have the planet all to himself, but not destroy it. Aerith wants neither jenova nor Sephiroth to have any control over the planet. Did I get that right?
the idea that Jenova will just take control of Cloud instead of Sephiroth in the Remake is so dark and the way I hope things go because it'll give Zack a major role to play when Cloud goes under full control of Jenova at the Northern Crater, as he'll likely have to be the one to step in and stop Cloud. The party or at least, Aerith and Zack, will find some way to defeat Cloud without killing him and remove Jenova's control of him. This will ultimately set up the final confrontation with Sephiroth in pt.3 where Zack, Cloud and possibly Aerith will be the ones to finally put an end to Sephiroth. The trailer for Rebirth even shows a quick snippet of Cloud wearing the black clone robes which gives even more credence to this theory. This can go so many ways (hopefully) lol
@@f25mart Zack will not be in the games. When speaking about Advent children recently they said the remakes story will be close enough to the original that Advent Children can still work as a canon sequel. That wouldn't work if Zack was alive.
I'm glad you explained the difference between Ore Sephy and Watashi Sephy. As a Japanese person, it gave me a big surprise because not until the edge of creation, Sephiroth was using Watashi throughout the story. When he first used Ore at the edge of creation, at the very beginning of the story, it literally blew my mind. I played it in English as well but I felt so disappointed that English speakers would never be able to experience this kind of shock just because the language is different. I appreciate that you could explain this to all the English speakers.
@@Handles_are_garbage Yeah unfortunately, it's impossible to translate 100% correctly simply because the two languages are so different. The translators must have compromised at some point but I really think they did a great job for this remake. Sephiroth changing his pronoun is like infinite in mystery, the gift from the Goddess for a long term FF7/Complication lover who can understand Japanese 😉
@@masakimusic9289 I think the only way you could even accomplish this in English is tone. Like how Barrett speaks more casually and Red XIII tends to speak more properly. Even then, yes, you're going to lose some of the original intention. Learning these quirks are the hardest part about learning Japanese as a native English speaker. You can't really learn the language without delving into the nuances of the culture too.
@@xemmyQ The scene was carefully composed to be completely at odds with all portrayals of Sephiroth and Cloud in Remake up to this point. One of the visual themes constantly used is the appearance of Sephiroth always being even larger than he is compared to Cloud. Camera tricks help achieve this crazy affect that just works in the context of Cloud's mental landscape, but also as a representation of Sephiroth bullying and menacing Cloud. However, in all the major shots for the final scene, for once, the camera is positioned so that Sephiroth and Cloud are equals. This is a huge deal.
I love that they took arguably both Crisis Core's most memorable line ("The Price of Freedom is steep"), and Advent Children's most memorable line ("I will never be a memory"), and actually makes them relevant to the plot in a tangible way. That's just really cool in a meta sense to me.
A lot of people have been saying how sad Aeriths death scene in hd will be (if it's going to happen now) But honestly, I'm preparing my heart to see what happens to Cloud. I really became attached to him playing through the remake, and knowing that Sephiroth has sinister plans to mess him up, even more so than he did in the original makes me really scared for him.
Yeah, I think thats what gets under my skin about this whole thing. Is that it could really set the story up for a lot of hardship. None of which I can handle T. T Thank you for watching Cat, and I appreciate the thoughtful comment!
Yeah honestly I’d love it if they took the original and dug the knife way deeper through cloud and not just Aerith. Makes the victory and struggle of the journey that much sweeter
At the Edge of Creation scene when Sephiroth said to Cloud that I will not end nor will I have you end, implies to me that if Cloud Dies, Sephiroth dies, meaning in order to defeat Sephiroth Completely, Cloud must die, soooo we must prepare ourselves.
New drinking game. Take a shot every time "Memories" is mentioned. This is a really nicely put together essay. I am half way through and loving it so far.
This amount of detail and work put into the analysis of not only REMAKE but the compilation is astounding. Not to mention, everything is backed up by script, interviews, and past scenes, symbols, and quotes. Therefore, this doesn't make it seem like just another theory video. It feels like a real puzzle being pieced together. A puzzle I think many REMAKE players WERE NOT able to put together during first playthrough. My jaw was dropped almost the entire video. Great work!
Played remake intergrade twice and crisis core when I was younger but without having played the original game or seen advent children the concept of memories completely eluded me.
I would have to agree. This guy Sleepeze is on a whole different level. I respect this man's ability to not only breakdown the subject but also convey it to his audience in such a wonderful manner.
The deliberate intention behind the title itself (Final Fantasy 7 Remake) is also making sense by this video. Because when they announced the title for this game, i was like “wow! They really don’t put much thought on the title isn’t it? This game might be suck n just cater to nostalgia”. Well.. I’m sooo wrong in that regard, because Remake is absolutely a sequel to FF7 Compilation
This person must have been watching Maximillian's ff7 streams. Maximillian has been saying all this 2 years ago AND predicting things that have come true. Max is literally a ff7 prophet. This person is 2 years too late, I dont know why everyone is acting surprised.
Definitely not on my first go. I remember playing the RE thinking it was just that, a Remake. And my experience with it was kind of like what they did with Cloud. I remembered things but I did not have the context of those memories. I remember having this hatred towards Sephiroth but my reasons behind it are incomplete. And so things started to change and I got confused and started seeing a pattern. Then I understood I was playing a continuation of the story, but had to go back and eat up OG FF7 and AC and then it all clicked. Terrific experience. I honestly dont understand how some despise it.
@Aaron9 the Sephiroth at the very end was definitely in control... im not sure about any other part during the game though except for when he tried to get cloud away from Aerith
@Aaron9 He got his facts right. Japanese Sephiroth speaks different than English Sephiroth cause of how the language works, it's actually impossible to translate. Sephiroth changes his speech pattern throughout FF7 and its present in all final fantasy media. Sephiroth in Cloud's flashback refers to himself in masculine Form using Ore whereas he changes his pronoun to Watashi as he goes off the deep end. Ore is male. Watashi is female. Both mean "I". It's synonymous to his mental state as the flashback one uses the male pronoun whereas the present and future Sephiroth, all the way to Advent Children use Watashi. FF7R is different as its the only game where we see both Sephiroth. The Sephiroth in the alleyway in the beginning uses Watashi, which is how he speaks, again from present day to Advent Children. Let's call him the Broken Sephiroth. However, the Sephiroth at the Edge of Creation is using Ore, which is how Sephiroth talks in the Kalm flashback and Crisis Core and only there and then. Broken Sephiroth only uses Watashi. Kalm Flashback/Crisis Sephiroth uses Ore. Both are in FF7R which makes no sense and the only occasion in all FF7 media where this is the case of Sephiroth being present yet talking in both ways without it being a flashback or a prequel. In all FF7 media before the remake, Sephiroth has never spoken using male pronouns after the Nibelheim incident up until now with the Edge of Creations. And the one and only thing that can somehow affect all this and connects it, is the influence of Jenova as Sephiroth's change in speech collaborates with Jenova's influence as is speech change happens the time when all the Jenova bullshit is happening in present day FF7. See it this way: OG FF7 Kalm Flashback - Ore Crisis Core - Ore Anything after that timespan until Advent Children- Watashi Edge of Creation - Ore
@@sasakelala3360 Watashi has always been feminine minded. You can look that up anywhere. That's why there is atashi which is regarded a cuter version of Watashi for women whereas men have boku which is more boyish and Ore which is more grown up.
Wow … this has got to be one of the most in-depth, thoughtful, eye opening, and excitement-creating analysis videos I’ve seen. And the the fact that I actually watched the whole thing. Thank you for making this.
As someone who's a huge fan of Jenova being the true villain of OG FFVII, I LOVE what you did here. Jenova calling out to Sephiroth in Nibelheim actually gives depth to Sephiroth as a villain in the OG. It makes him more tragic, knowing that it wasn't entirely out of his own free will that he went crazy. BTW. God is Jenova's "voice" creepy. Also, the murderous part of Cloud in Remake being the Sephiroth part of his memories makes so much sense. We assumed he only took a part of Zack's memories, but he took memories of all the people he knew. Whispers representing Jenova and opposing Sephiroth blew my mind. Zack being adrift, separate from the lifestream too... It makes so much sense when looking at all the scenes. You always blow my mind with your videos.
I agree. I always thought that Sephiroth’s change and descent into ‘madness’ was too sudden and unnatural. Especially his portrayal in Crisis Core, where he seemed like a generally good person. Aloof, perhaps, but decent. Then, suddenly, a switch is flipped and he is a murderous megalomaniac? I like the idea that Sephiroth could be a more complex character than we are presented with in FF7. I’m not saying I want a full redemption arc or anything like that, but just showing some degree of humanity adds so much depth.
The fact not many people realise this is worrying. A Sephiroth is a human most compatible with Jenova cells. Lucrecias son shares Jenovas consciousness
In regards to the change at the very end in how Sephiroth refers to himself; it’s after Cloud rejects him. Seph was at least sort of actually friends/friendly with Cloud from what I remember from crisis core (a decade ago essentially). Now not a prisoner, a scarred Sephiroth tries to reach for his “humanity.” Once rejected its back to evil sephiroth but this time he has personal agency.
I do think that most of that friendship is in actuality Zack's friendship that he had with Sephiroth, as far as I can tell the only mission where Cloud and Sephiroth are ever together is the nibelhiem incident. Its been a second though so I could be wrong about this. The extent of Sephiroths humanity even in this final scene is present, but to me it always seemed like it was barely there / non existent. To me all of this kindness seems rather transparent for his own purpose. You could even say that though he feels connected to Cloud, (and from what I remember there is 'respect' he has for him too), that admiration of Clouds strength is equally matched by his feelings of hatred for him. Sephiroth losing to Cloud is from what I remember such a strong feeling that he uses it to essentially survive. Anyway. Mini Rant over. Your comment about commenting in the comments has now been commented on. Always fun to think about the characterization of Seph, Cloud, and them together.
Spoiler alerts While it might be true that end-of-world Sephiroth's perceived friendliness towards Cloud was a by product of his friendship with Zack, there was another character that was first introduced in Ever Crisis and is reintroduced in ff7 rebirth that's might influence his behavior: Glenn Lodbrok, who might be Cloud's biological father not only because they share physical resemblance but also because one of Glenn's dialogue mentioned him owning someone 4000 gil, which is the exact amount of money Cloud and his mom received from Shinra upon receiving news of Cloud's father's death. In Ever Crisis, Glenn served as a father figure to a young Sephiroth who've just entered battle for the first time in his life, therefore one can interpret end-of-world Sephiroth's invitation toward Cloud as a way for Sephiroth to reconnect to his estranged brother (which mirrors the invitation the 3 remnants of Sephiroth offer toward Cloud in Advent Children while they keep calling him their brother ).
I'm an hour in and I just wanted to stop to thank you soo much for all the hard work you've done here. I don't know how the whole lifestream being comprised of memory thing never registered, but that fact alone makes so much more make sense about this overall story. I played this game as a kid and was blown away by the story of friendship and overcoming adversity and whatnot, I'm just so amazed that now as a grown man I'm still finding such deeply impactful and moving themes in this story so many years later. This is truly a masterpiece, both your work in this video and the overall story of Final Fantasy 7 itself. Bravo
At this stage, I'm not even sure it's theory. Everything he said fits perfectly with what he has shown and displayed in the Ultimania. There are some questions that arise, but those are things that can't be answered until the next installment comes out, at the very least.
@@UltimaweaponSR You cant help wonder if zack directed that famous line to all his fans and supporters. Then to quote Snake from MGS "Kept you waiting huh"
I'd absolutely LOVE a dual narrative story where occasionally we get to play as Zack. I get that adding him to the party would be weird since he and Cloud would play way too similarly so hopefully they push his style a bit closer to Dante from DMC maybe. Zach was one to have fun with his fights in comparison to Cloud who doesn't chew his food.
There was a line by genesis in crisis core, Three friends go into battle one flies away , one is captured and one that is left becomes a hero . Is it possible that these lines are referred to ZACK , SEPHIROTH and CLOUD as Zack dies and joins the lifestream (flying away from the battle) sephiroth becomes prisoner to jenova and cloud is left as a hero. maybe whole LOVELESS is a prophecy to everything and AERITH is the GODESS depicted in the verse . Does this all makes sense ?
Kinda does make sense actually, Cloud was meant to be Zack’s living legacy, who’s dream was to become a hero and he passed that on to cloud. Before the credits in Crisis Core, Zack literally and metaphorically flies away to join the life stream as he’s lifted towards the heavens. The prisoner role is a hard one to fill as sephiroth parallel isn’t too similar, cloud also may fit that role as he has become a prisoner within his own mind and sephiroth may be the hypothetical hero, as he was always seen that way by shinra and the people.
Amazing video. My conslusion is: Someone without memories, it is a empty shell without any will power to become a fully strong heart with determination in life So guys, embrace your memories, do not forget your experiences in life, learn from them, clean up your guilt and regrets, and be gratefull for the only life you have, because you are not alone. The power of unity, friendship and love will keep us togheter until the end.
Omg, I’m at work on my phone break and after a few seconds in, I decided to pause it and save it until I get home. I’m going to treat this like a movie and pull this up on my tv with snacks. Freakin excited to watch. Thank you Sleepezi for all that you do and the work you put into your videos. Much appreciated. Edit: Finished the video. WOW. Loved it. I didn’t expect to learn so much!
no, this series is not deep at all and everything this guy says was shit he created in his head canon of the story and themes he made up - i've seen people do the same to make others think dora the explorer was deep i love this and what he did, but no one at square enix has ever had that much of a mind to do what he's stating and his work to try to make it all work and connect is the only deep or smart thing anywhere around this it's complete bs, but i LOVE your ideas and wish they actually had writers that actually did that kinda thing in the series and will like and subscribe - YOU PUT IN SOME SERIOUS WORK, you're the kinda person they need working on their remakes and reboots - you love the series and give it far more meaning and depth than they ever did themselves
@@smokythecameraman way to go calling other people's theory shit and complete bs, then proceed to put the word respect into the mix. If you are dissapointed at or hate Square Enix then that's on you, this guy's just stating his own theory and trying to make things work. Theories are there for speculation, not for what's true or not. You might like apples, others might like oranges. Let others be, man. No need for hate. Really unnecessary.
@@ryuzakikai331 i have respect for his work, despite it being pointless cause square enix has no one working there with any detph and you really think they people that made dirge of cerberus were making this grand thing? i will rephrase then, his theory is perfect but ff7 is bs - better?
This revelation about Cloud effectively "downloading" Zack during the rain is giving me goosebumps. This is 7 in a way I've never even considered, and it's only 26 minutes in... @_@
Now think of a future where zack is alive so cloud does not become his living legacy, he doesn't go on a date with aerith cause zack is back, and he doesn't sign up for the bombing missions cause he never thinks of himself as a 1st class soldier. What becomes of cloud besides being apart of reunion.
@@pipz420 There's a lot of knock on effects, and the confusing part still remains why there are 2 timelines for this. It's established by the dog mascot that the events of the game take place in one timeline while zack living takes place in a different one... And there's other questions too, like what did Zack do with Cloud after that battle where he lived? Did he get hit by stray bullets and die, and Zack, in that timeline, ended up taking Cloud's place? So many questions.
@@pipz420 Cloud would possibly still go on the bombing mission. Remember back to the OG: it was Zack's idea that they BOTH become mercenaries. So who knows, maybe Avalanche couldn't afford Zack, so they settled for Cloud and all the same things happen anyway. Cloud falls into the church while Zack goes to see Aerith?
@@dalegleneagles5072 I don’t know why but the image of Cloud falling through the roof of the church while Zack and Aerith are just chilling is bloody hilarious.
Amazing video so far. Neat thing I noticed in the scene you mention at 1:16:20 - When Aerith gives the flower that represents "reunion" whilst saying "This is for you", it echoes the words at the beginning of Advent Children. "To all those who love this world, this reunion is for you."
This was incredible not only for positing a theory that makes perfect sense, but also for clarifying lore in the grand scope of FF7 that, for myself as a newcomer, has been hard to wrap my brain around. Thank you so much for all the hard work that went into this!
I am really glad that it hit those markers. so I am glad that your experience reflects a positive outcome of that effort on my part. XD Really really thank you for watching!
I had lost so much hope and bought into the other analysis's perspective. And here I am, after watching of this; completely disarmed and moved. And hopeful about the direction FFVII is going. Thank you. That was insane 🙏
No doubt, One of the best RU-vid videos on gaming/fictional stories I've ever watched! I'm very new to the FF7 Universe's Story having just playing Crisis Core Reunion (Remake) then the actual Remake, and I just want to say seriously THANKYOU for putting the insane amount of time and effort for this masterfully done video that made sense of so much of this albeit kinda confusing, but beautifully masterful story for me. You deserve wayyy more attention and will always look forward to your videos from now on to get more story info!
I've been playing some old FF games and to be honest I can understand why FF VII is such a huge series among the franchise. FF between I and III are good games with II being more developed in terms of villains and characters, FF IV to V are great games but I must say that In the fourth game we spent a huge part of the story with a party being separated and it's hard to grow a huge feeling over certain characters, V is a great game and have a huge amount of new mechanics but the story is very "soft" compared to the others... And then we have FF VI that takes all the great things from the games of the past and implemented in the game... The story was really good and the characters are very charismatic, specially Terra and Celes. But in FF VII things changed completely, the story was more consistent than ever and they learned their lesson and implemented so many great things on the game that makes a JRPG that was never seen before in the franchise... The story, characters, gameplay, music, materia system and the list goes on. FF VII deserves every praise that it gets... I know that every FF is great in their own way but still...
It's good to see that you're playing the older FF games and appreciate what they bring to the table. Makes you wonder how they forgot all of this back in 2016, doesn't it?
Ive always had a bit of an emotional attachment to ff7. Its the first one i played as a child, and the story always hit my soft spots. I still own and play it here and there, and i still get the same feelings that i did when i was a kid. I actually never knew about the other ff7 games that came out until recently. Gonna have to eventually buy and play them
I didn't even play RPG games at all back in the day. I was under the impression that they were stupid and boring and would be a chore to get through. Then my friend gave me his Super Nintendo (I was a Sega Genesis stan back then) and a few games, among them was Final Fantasy III (FF6). Out of sheer boredom I decided to give it try. I couldn't believe what I was playing. Straight blown away by it. I had no idea how awesome it would be. A few years later Ff7 was released and the rest is history.
@@ultimamage3 I think FF15 gets more hate than it should in many of the aspects that it gets right. What they did atrociously bad is having a great story and structuring it so poorly. The way the story is told is amateurish at best. And I like the story, just not the way its told. It has great elements, but idk why they decided to make it so that if you dont buy/consume any of the side content, you will feel like you're not getting most of the meaningful parts of the story.
Um…it’s because of your age. I’m assuming you’re not 30+ years old so you wouldn’t understand. FFVII was groundbreaking in every way shape or form….literally name ANYTHING about the game and it shattered it lol…enough said…
Its just crazy that FF7 was already the largest FF in the series and with the remake it just doubled that amount. Its very obvious that FF7 is Square Enix's most treasured game in their library and I cant blame them. This is game is the very reason why we still have the final fantasy series and their salvation from bankruptcy
@@lierx.agerate8230 lol that doesn’t hold much weight considering IX has some of the least amount of lore behind it and doesn’t get any attention outside of it being a really solid game. VII is by far their favorite because A: it makes them a metric fuck ton of cash, and B: it has the most well thought out and passion driven lore in the entire series. You can tell that VII is taken care of and is loved by Square, otherwise they wouldn’t sink the money into it, and because fans love it and Square knows that disappointing their fans on anything VII won’t be received well, VII fans are the most diehard of FF fans, their opinions matter heavily to the devs and the devs are huge fans themselves, meaning their own opinions matter. It literally makes no sense to say IX is their favorite game because their track record shows otherwise, you’re just talking out of your ass or took a small snippet of what they said and ran with it out of context. All of the proof points towards VII being everyone’s real favorite. You don’t put this amount of passion into something that doesn’t give back to you double in terms of personal happiness and monetary gain
@@lierx.agerate8230 probably to play lol. But it’s rather obvious that actions speak louder than words and it’s fairly simple to just look at the success and passion behind VII and the almost comparatively scarce hype around IX and it’s lack of lore and expansion. One is a cultural icon, commercially and critically acclaimed to no end and the most beloved in the series. One is a great game and solid. I don’t think you need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that they said one thing and definitely meant another lol. Figure it out son
What's so cool is I remember reading a theory article someone wrote on some website back in the 2000s trying to argue that Jenova influenced everything, even the creation of Shinra and Midgar in order to recover her body. The article even made the point that Jenova was completely controlling Sephiroth through much of the story, so kudos to that guy.
It really makes you think about Sephiroth's "I'll never be a memory." line meaning at the end of Advent Children. I've been a fan since the first video was linked on the FF7Remake Reddit and a lurker during your streams. Your videos are always a treat to watch/listen to, keep up the sick work!
I am almost speechless at the phenomenal presentation of this video. You, sir, have a gift and I am ashamed of myself for not discovering you sooner. The YT algorithm has blessed me this day. Thank you so much for this, Sleep. 3 hours well-spent.
That algorithm seems to be helping out quite a bit recently, which is very cool just because I am seeing a lot of new faces! And glad it was worth while! Thank you very much. ;)
Wow, what a complete mindfuck. I always felt like ;the game was an actual sequel rather than a remake, and you spell it out beautifully how that's so. Thank you very much for doing the homework and sharing the results
I am so glad that you felt this way about it. I can get a bit excitable when I am recording these but I am glad to hear that it was conveyed properly! Thank you so much Slayer. and thank you for watching!
Fascinating theory. I like how you pieced together many things the community has already discussed for years. The whole thing about Sephiroth trying to regain his memories to be whole again fits perfectly with what the _sefirot_ from the Kabbalah means: atributes that manifest into the physical and spiritual realms.
Damn, what a ride! Such a great deep dive! You and Maximilian Dood had already become the nr.1 authority on the Remake and Compilation to me, but this is next level stuff. Just amazing! I wonder though, if there could be more to gleam from the inevitable PC release whenever that'll gonna be. And that mobile remaster of the Compilation that's coming too. Anyways, thank you for such a gem, I know long videos are awful for the algorithm so here's my like and comment to help this one along!
This video honestly represents the pinnacle of lore-crafting, and it's a pleasure to have witnessed something of this magnitude given to the community. Sleepezi will literally never miss! This also leaves so many questions. What will Sephiroth do with his freedom? Should we assume he's still corrupted from his time in the lifestream and resort to vainglory? Will he dominate Jenova for power of out of anger for his own manipulation? How can Cloud overcome his own shortcomings without his pillars of identity? From what you've broken down here, it seems like FF7R2 is setting us up for some serious pain, especially going off the juxtaposition of the remake vs AC church scene. This is wild!!
It’s worth noting that Sephiroth was not a demon in hiding prior to the Nebelheim incident. He was a reasonable, thoughtful, and downright courageous guy. He was handmade for the purposes of reunion with Jenova, possession, and eventually the vessel for her methods to bring about calamity. I’m not one for forced redemption arcs, but after watching this video, I have since played through CC, FF7, watched AC, and played the remake again. TBH, the dude was robbed of his free will and agency. I think a full-on Sephiroth redemption arc could actually work if handled with care.
This is without a doubt the most informative and well structured video on this subject. I thoroughly enjoyed that and will watch it many more times. This is essential FF7 study. Very well done 👏 I subscribed within the first 5 minutes of the video 🙂👌
I agree with most of what your theory entails, but there is a major point I feel you got wrong here: The concept of Jenova controlling Sephiroth. Technically, you are correct however, Sephiroth is also controlling Jenova. Indeed, the two have essentially become interchangeable, one and the same. In the original game, he shapeshifted her body into his form, and her reunion wasn't at Midgar, where she was, but all her parts headed to the Crater, where he was. The Sephiroth who stabbed Barret was one of his clones, using Jenova's ability to shape shift into his form, not a reassembling Sephiroth, and the other clone, again in his form, is taking her body to the Crater, or at least we can assume so, given Cloud's vision of the Crater when he touched the clone. And we can see this due to Palmer having seen Sephiroth where the clone was, without him having ever made contact with Cloud. Also, the Whispers don't seem to actually be connected to Jenova at all, it's more like the WEAPON creatures the planet made/are part of the planet's life cycle.
lol yeah. I will say, that the base of this discussion of memories does have a much clearer connection to everything that already existed in the FF7 world. So I think one thing going for Remake is that the structure of what came before it very much lends itself to this discussion that the developers seem to be having with us. Which I think makes it less abrasive, a bit more seemless, and a bit more enjoyable! but that's just me! Then again, not fully able to understand KH without knowing the whole story, which I don't. So there you go. Either way thank you for watching! :D
Love the format. Just going to keep doing my best to refine it. But I also want to Thank you for watching it, it is so good to see others enjoy the longer vids like I do.
Kinda of insane how much lore there is to this franchise. I never really made any of these connections so it's really cool to have listened to this video. I learned a whole lot. Sephiroth is one of my favorite video game characters. I really loved how they made him human in CC and I always thought that deep down, he was just lost when he found out the underground lab in Nibelheim. Let's be honest, we would have all lost our minds if we found out we were created as a pet science project. Anyways, looking forward to Part 2... in like a bazillion years.
Great vid as always Sleepezi. The only thing I have to say is when a tear rolls down Cloud's cheek at the beginning of chapter 8 when Aerith walks away, we know exactly which memory Cloud remembers from the context of the scene itself. When Aerith intercepts Cloud in the OG she's simply standing in the path and Cloud runs up on her. In the Remake, Aerith pops the top half of her body from out behind the rubble then, the rest of her body walks out. She then after talking to him, she walks away. In the OG we've seen her do this exactly. After Cloud gets knocked out in the Temple of the ancients, we see Aerith do exactly this in his dream in the Sleeping forest. She first pokes the top half of her body out from behind a tree, then the rest of her body. Then after talking a bit, she walks away. These similarities triggered his memory headache calling back to Aerith's death or that scene specifically.
You're analysis videos are like no other. Truely detailed and well researched more than anyone else. Massive respect for the amount of time and work you put into these! 👍
This was so wonderfully put together and I enjoyed every second of this video. All the quoted source material makes me feel more confident that the differences in the remake have far more intention than I gave them credit for. So hopefully the story uses these changes to say some meaningful things as a continuation of the conversation from the original's and compilation's themes
There is a lot of possibilities post remake, and honestly I really hope they break it down regarding becoming hollow. Having no memories and forming new memories with Aerith/Zack and gang sounds appealing to me. Sometimes letting go of old memories is the only way to move forward. But what of Jenova? Wouldn't it retaliate at some point? There's a lot of questions but I do believe your video answered quite a few. I really do appreciate this video, and it makes me excited for the next 7 entry.
Whoa man that idea of letting old memories go is crazy. I see where you’re going it might have some bizarre benefits where we had no idea. But I and many don’t want to see our spikey haired buddy in a wheelchair again. Everytime I play OG its hurts seeing him like that. ALSO... I have a thought .. if Cloud knew his mom worked at Shinra as part of knowing it would mess him up. I can feel that knowledge creep in somewhere in the next part to distrust what he previously held onto. That Nibelheim was an innocent town. We could be for a wild ride in the feels.
@@ergman85 What I wanted was a reimagining. But I guess from watching this video where getting the same characters but a new Journey thus making it a cash grab off of the use of the old nostalgic characters that we know and love.
At 1:30:40 when you started talking about how much an impact Jenova has had while playing Jenova Quickening in the backround gave me goosebumps. As a sci fi fan and a fan of ff7 since 97. Jenova is my favorite Villain of all time. After playing remake, fighting Sephiroth that's not supposed to happen (or is it?) I started to think the next parts are going to gradually focus more on Jenova and not Sephiroth. Can't wait
You didn't even see Sephiroth at all for quite a long time. When you get to the office the president is already dead. When you cross the sewamp they see a midgsr zolom impaled on a pole and everyone is baffled and it's commented that only Sephiroth could do that. Sephiroth was entirely rumored but no one was sure. They saw jenova but it was stolen, you didn't fight it. First time you see Sephiroth is on the boat. He quickly flies in (blink and you'll miss it) and drops part of jenova on the party and that's the first time you fight jenova. I don't recall when the first time they scyuslly see Sephiroth is. I don't think it's until much later, after nibelheim. Maybe not even until the city of the ancients.
That's an interesting thought so it wouldn't be an asspull if at the start of the 2nd game everyone started back at level 1, because their memories have been altered. If we are to say that Cloud is no longer connected to Zack, then technically speaking he would no longer have access to his Limit breaks and would have to develop Limit Breaks around the memories of his current comrades. So when we get to the "flashback" scene in Nibelheim where he is explaining Sephiroth, it will most likely be told the original way not because he is inserting himself into Zack but rather he has forgotten Zack. Makes me wonder if Sephiroth just wants to end suffering, where his basic ideal is that he doesn't blame Jenova for what he did, he blames Shinra and Shinra is the collective idea of humanity to bleed the planet for their own selfish gains. So basically Sephiroth and Aerith have the same ideals towards the nurturing of the planet but in Sephiroth's mind he thinks the best way to handle it is to not only eradicate Jenova from existance but humanity as well, where Jenova's main goal was to injure the planet enough to insert herself into the lifestream, Sephiroth just wants to burn it all to the ground because in his mind that is true salvation, to end the cycle of pain. Of course he can't convince, Cloud, Aerith and the others to do this, because they treasure the idea of life and memories, and in order to create those memories you need the good and the bad, but for Sephiroth, because he is the product of Shinra's Science and his connection to Jenova, he feels a disconnection to the lifestream because he is neither Human or Jenova, he is a freak of nature that has no tie to either side and because of that pain in his soul, that his whole reason for existing was to be some hybrid freak with Jenova cells in him, he wants those that caused this Destiny on him to suffer, by destroying everything they've created to create him.
With Cloud being the exception cus supposedly in the Ultimenia Sephiroth's thoughts were that Cloud would probably best understand the suffering he has been going through and would consider him like an old friend or Rival or maybe Sephiroth just wants Cloud to end his torment,that way he can finally be at ease....If that is the case though that would be so freaking,hella sad. :'( pretty much assisted Suicide on Sephiroths end.
You deserve a youtube platnium plak and millions of subs this annihilated my mind because I've been following everything as well and it brought realism to it and how stuff works irl. I can relate because I hold very close to me the memories as that is what I hold onto the most dearest to me that is what makes me me. I can't wait to see another video. I kinda wish they would do this to Final Fantasy 8 if they ever make an actual remake due to the sorceress from the future having power of time I see similarities as well as Aerith and Rinoa having a ribbon tied to them and both having power to heal
I think this easily the best theory video on this game so far. Just falls more in line with what I personally think is happening. A Re-imagining of FF7, that includes everything and not just the OG game. I agree that Remake is the "continuation of the bigger scope of that story they were trying to tell back then with the compilation", but they started from the beginning to retell and finish that story. Awesome stuff I reallyt enjoyed it.
@@DonShotta24 Well that depends what you define what a "big change" is. Are addendums and evolution of ideas really big changes? A big change to me is more in line with replacing a core theme with something else, for example letting Aerith live to tell a different message with it. So I would say no to that question because I have not seen yet a "big change" in the narrative of Remake yet, Zack might be the exception because we dont know where that is going yet. Remake is a different beast because Its a new experience, it feels to me what the name "Final Fantasy VII Remake" means to the developers is more like "Final Fantasy VII+Compilation Remake". I think Its important to know when the developers are talking about FF7 they mean everything and not just the OG game.
its always one step at a time with this stuff. first video got 10k. Which was some sort of odd and uncalculatable event. This one is about to hit 100k after being on the platform for a year doing the same thing all over again. In short. Its all just mind blowing. Who knows where we go next right? But most importantly: Thanks for being apart of the journey, cause that's what really counts. Thank you for watching!
I felt like an alien watching a presentation about how the human experience works watching this. Made me realise or well, no, just remember, how much power we all have over others' experiences in life and how we all need other people in order to find our purpose and strength to do and achieve things. We should focus on ourselves sometimes, but without other people, there is no purpose in doing.. well, anything. Great video 👍
Saw 2 hour video in youtube - " Man this is just to long for me" After 2 hours - " i am profounded!" Im a fan of FF7.. i never did went into all the compilations or theory, however after i've finished ff7 remake last year i felt the ending and the story was a bit off.. it left me with a lot of questions and started to question the scriptwriters choice of story telling.. after watching your video i've realised how amazing the connections that they want to convey and will be conveying in the next and future installments.. Thank you for this amazing video.. P/s : this video should have more views!!
This guy. I hope were not both having the same Tesselation dreams. O.O Thank you for checking it out Fishfriedcat. and to the phenomenal content you make too. ;)
i don't usually watch ff7 lore or theory videos because i'm such a sweaty fan that i don't vibe with a lot of folks' perspectives or find they don't understand a lot of fairly basic concepts, but . man. a friend sent me this and my brainworms are going absolutely off the wall. i've learned things i didn't know before (mostly ultimania-based knowledge) and feel it really helped to align the thoughts and expectations i already had after playing and reflecting upon remake. awesome work
My mind explode at 1:57. "Cloud presently did not recognize Aerith, rather it is Sephiroth's consciousness who is the one who is giving Cloud the memories of the future."
My word... As a long time fan who's done dozens of playthroughs of the original and a decent amount of the remake, I learned so much from this video. And it made me so much more hyped for Part 2!
I'm watching this while playing the remake, just went through a tough time in life so I always find myself to this game and I never knew why, but this video has honestly help explain why j relate to the lore so much
I think that is one of the same reasons I was driven to make these videos to begin with. Because this game happened to come out during a time that I needed something like it to exist. I felt that same feeling your describing of coming to some sort of understanding as to why that is after completing the video myself. Theory or not. I appreciate you watching, enjoying it, and I wish you the best.
@@Sleepezi I played the game as a teen in 1997 in a very hard time in my life and suffering deep loss, playing ff7r made me really happy despite again falling into a very dark place. I related to yr explain of the lore also. Whether this is all canon or not. Or whatever direction square goes, it means a great deal. Yr vid made me very hopeful and happy. Thanks again!
Wow! What an amazing video! Acter watching this, I feel like I interpret Remake in a whole new light. As a viewer, I really respect the insane amount of effort and passion that clearly went into making this video. You just earned yourself a new subscriber. On a funnier note, you could absolutely use this video for a drinking game. Any time you say either "memory" or "memories", take a shot. Lol.
There’s been a lot on the white space and the individual and collective consciousness, but there are flashes of a black space in OG and remake as well. Before Tifa meets Cloud in the life stream she’s running though darkness, tormented by hostile voices. Cloud’s space goes dark when Sephiroth interrupts his inner conversation before he wakes up and sees Aerith. There’s of course darkness with Nero in Dirge and Intergrade. I wonder if the darkness is individual negativity - despair, anxiety, depression etc - or a corruption of the collective conscious by Sephiroth or beings with Jenova cells.
The level of work you put into this is simply incredible. I can't even begin to imagine the hours put into organizing all of this, and then making a 3 hour video explaining it as clearly as possible on top of all of that for the rest of us. I really appreciate you. Next time I have some extra money I'll definitely sub to your patreon, as I want to invest in your work. Correct me if I understood wrong, but something that's really interesting to me is that it kind of reframed Jenova in my head from being a 'mysterious calamity' to this sort of alien psychological parasite that can manipulate people (through memory) beyond the typical scope of human perception, that being outside of how humans experience time via past, present, and future since her powers are... extradimensional(?) in a way, and that she can interact with the full cycle of memories in the lifestream, using people augmented like Sephi or Cloud or someone like Aerith as a type of avatar for her will which is so strong compared to humantiy's power that it actually becomes what you coined 'destiny,' and I'm looking forward to replaying the original with that context in mind.
The name "Zack" is also related to memory , it means " God recalled" . This highlight the uttermost purpose of Zack's existence... A fundamental link to the past that anchor all the grounding of the plot .
Also, I just wanted to say that I've spent the last couple of days looking for more insight into the meaning behind the whispers, what Aerith says about losing a piece of her every time she touches one of them, and about Zack and how he fits into everything. It's so nice to have a video that helps contextualize all of these things! Can't wait to see future videos on the topic! Thanks for working so hard here to share everything you have learned, I've learned so much!!
The algorithm loves this video so much. I watched it in it's entirety when I first saw it, I love it, but it shows up in my recommended/suggestions every day. I was watching a Banjo-Kazooie video, and RU-vid was like, "You seem like you're in the mood to rewatch the 3 hour FF7 video you watched last week" Once again, enjoyed the video from beginning to end, but it's hilarious how aggressively RU-vid pushes it to me.
I clicked on this video since it piqued my interest but didn't expect to finish it since it's so long but the in-depth analysis and amazing construction of thoughts made me stay. Kudos to Sleepezi for making this video! It's my first time watching your content but you've blown me away!
Shit that was so insanely insightful! It's so incredible to see the evolution of train of thought (after listening and watching all previous videos) that has happened, and still make up in ways of context this last video. I was constantly finding different ideas every time i rewateched something, and was always hopeful and curious for what was to come next. I feel that this video wraps up the whole thing in such an incredible way. Amazing work and dedication man, really shows a depth to the story that can be so easily overlooked. I love it!
I can't believe I'm only finding this video now?! I'm not even all the way through and you have blown my mind multiple times.The story is so much deeper than I realized and I've fallen in love with it all over again! Thank you for all your hard work on this video, it really is a masterpiece! I honestly cannot stop watching it, this video is so well made. Well done! 👏
Love the content. I have a much deeper appreciation for all of FF7 thanks to your very informafive videos. Makes each moment while replaying the compilation very impactful
That line about Aerith hating the steel sky really hits home with how you've talked about what the sky means to her and the lost of Zack. Because the sky she hated gave her one good thing and that was Zack, who fell from the sky and into her life.
Going back to this video after finishing rebirth. Damn you were pretty close and on point on many things. It would be amazing if you make a video to validate which parts of this theory was proven.
DUDE! Have you played Ever Crisis? To level up your character further you need to acquire 'memories'. You were damn right from the start! This is so cool. Love this game series, love your videos, and I feel like a kid again when listening to you. Thanks for this awesome video.
The Sephiroth Clones in Remake were not from the Nibelheim incident. Rather, they were produced 10 years prior as detailed in the events of "Picturing the Past". In that story, Shinra deploys the Special Survey Units (SSUs) to various places in Gaia based on Aerith's visions. It is from these missions where we get our 49 Sephiroth clones. The 49 Sephiroth Clones are a references to the 49 gates of heaven (or the cosmos as they made no distinction between the two). Macro #49 is the culmination of all other versions of Sephiroth from all possible timelines and that is what we're up against.
