Everyone has to understand something about Dumble unlike almost any other boutique amps. Dumble’s idea is that a guitar goes straight into an amp and that’s it! In almost all his combo amps, he installed EVM speakers for their flatter response. His amps were not your typical circuits either. His love for Blackface Bassman heads was his platform but heavily modified from there. His Overdrive Special being the most regarded model was great! That being said I had a chance to see inside of a 160 Steel Stringer he did for Stevie Ray and his work was amazing! Something not too many techs get a chance to do. Mr. Diaz cracked one of the two open and I had that opportunity. Sound & Feel wise, none of us Stevie, Cesar nor myself cared for those amps at all. Best Dumble I’ve ever heard was an Overdrive Special that I think belonged to Lowell George from Little Feat. Even Lowell used not 1 but 2 MXR Dynacomp pedals with that amp. If Mr. Dumble approved of this overdrive that says a lot cause he didn’t approve of too much for sure. He also absolutely did not want anyone tech or not inside his amps so seeing the inside of one was treat for a young guy getting into amp repairing/building.
FYI - the Carlton tune “Room 335” you played is from the “Larry Carlton” album that came out in 1978. The “On Solid Ground” album came out a decade later in 1989 (after recovering from a near fatal shooting). 👍🏻🎸🖖🏻
Not to slight your effusive praise for Dumble approving this pedal, but in my opinion this would have been a much more well-rounded video had you also put a different overdrive into that amp you used to provide actual context as to why most don't sound good into those amps, not to mention putting the SOV into a non-Dumble amp to show that it is indeed as transparent and versatile as you suggest. I suppose I could be a bit outside of the target audience here, as I've never heard a Dumble in person, nor am I well-versed on their pros and cons, but as someone who enjoys consuming all manner of guitar-based YT content, I felt that this was (unfairly) more about validating the Dumble-approval than the pedal itself. Respectfully, A Viewer
Agreed. We d actually hear that “it doesn’t take pedals”, regather have to rely on hearing the sentence “it notoriously doesn’t take pedals well” countless times.
Sounds like the pedal actually had a better harmonic than the amp on the high "G" around the 7:00 mark. Very informative clip. PS., been using a Dynamic Distortion for a few years now. Love it!
I take issue with the premise that Dumble amps are in your words "terrible" "notoriously bad" and "historically awful" at taking overdrive pedals. The Dumble amps I've heard have always sounded great with basic overdrive pedals running into it (Mayer, Dead and Co, Bonamassa).
Thanks for watching Jeremiah! Remember though, Mayer is using the SSS as a pedal platform and JB is using them as OD and running a boost into the front for more gain.
Joe only really runs a boost through it tho. & John is probably the most noteworthy of recently. The SSS style circuit takes pedals a lot better than ODS circuits tho they’re kinda more of a pedal platform amp where as the ODS is it’s own thing. Mind you I’ve only gotten to play one real Dumble being my uncles that’s 009-10 if I remember correctly... so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I think both TR & AN & even Jello @ Walegen have worked out the front end input issues that these circuits had when being hit with Overdrives
I got one 10 years ago when it was still sold in $130, and it’s still my main overdrive. They’ve released a couple of newer versions both from providence and free the tone, but the 110v headroom is something different.
I have one and have been using it for over 15 years, I’ve always wanted people to know the pedal. Thank you for reviewing this gem! Also the SOV1 goes SOOO well with the Matchless DC30 and Divided by 13 JRT 9/15
I’ve never heard that they didn’t take pedals well. I’ve played 3. I would think if you have an amp that has that good of an overdrive on its own, why would you use a pedal?
The SOV is a different style of OD in comparison to the amp OD. You could use amp OD for one tone, then a pedal OD for a different tone, if that makes sense.
Mason I see your point. Different flavors. Is it the FET input that has the issue with pedals? I do agree that some amps just don’t like pedals. Or at least you had to be aware of symmetrical vs asymmetrical in the amps gain and also the pedal your using. Kim Davis was a friend of mine and he had two Dumbles. His 100 watt ODS was excellent. I played it many times. He also had a 50 watt combo that was not a good amp to my ear. But I guess they’re all different. I also played one that came through Daves Guitar Shop several years ago. Also if the first stage of an amp is designed to have a lot of gain (not distortion, gain) I’ve found that it tends to not take pedals well. Just a few reasons I’ve hit on over the years. When I first started selling my pedals back in 2000 I used to go around and play them into every amp I could find and some just don’t like pedals. Keep up the great content.
@@TJauernigElectronics this was all into the non-FET boosted channel. The ones I looked in seemed to have a Stratoblaster premap there in the FET section in series, that was it. As to the sensitivities, I'm going off of what was reported to me by prominent and long time players of Dumble amps, in addition to what I'd played. I'm sure there were some exceptions but even Dumble had frowned upon pedals into his amps historically, and understandably if he puts an overdrive channel in it. I made this video because it's remarkable that he "OK'ed" this one particular pedal.
The pedal has a little more gain and saturation and sounds great but to be brutally honest I could just go with that amp as it sounded fantastic! Who makes that amp and what is that model called? I would be happy as a lark just having that amp.
I've got a Fuchs ODS HRM 50 watt head. For the overdrive, the bass can be a little flubby even with the bass dialed way down. A Boss GE-7 works wonders to roll off some of that flubby bass. And if a little more grit is desired for solos, I like a good ol' TS-7.
The first clips of amp and pedal, if you didn’t change any tone or volume on the guitar, then the pedal made it sound fuller. The Dumble was very biting, which is great in a mix, but hard to love on its own, unless one knows the tone, when by your self, often won’t be or help what one needs in a band mix.
Felt like the amps dirt was muffled somewhat kinda choked where as the pedal had life and a little more breath to it? Other question is how did feel? Feel and Tone are two totally different aspects of any amp setup. Cool video
Prividence Anadime V4 is my favorite no frills analog Chorus pedal. I haven’t played the older ones, but the V4 has a mix knob, over the tiny “Deep” trimmer on the V3.
The pedal has a midrange buzz I do not like. The Dumble just doesn't sound very good to me but it lacks that annoying buzz. I'm just not a pedals for overdrive guy,, and I'm not a Dumble guy. I'll take a cranked Marshall or any Trainwreck ANY DAY over any of those.
@@VertexEffectsInc It was a long time ago (1990's), he had a Sho-Bud volume pedal, the Blues Driver, a switch for the SDE1000's and the Dumble footswitch. He had a pair of Dumbles, I think he was only using one. He had 2 - 1x12 Dumble cabs with EV12L's in front of him like monitors. A pair of SDE1000's in his rack with a Dumbleator. First time I ever saw a Dumble in the flesh. I touched one of the heads between shows, hoping some of his magic mojo would rub off. Didn't work. LOL
Interesting dive into this pretty obscure pedal. I'm a drive pedal nerd and have not heard of this one before. I'm sure you've considered this; what about a Vertex version/adaptation of this pedal. Perhaps not a straight clone but your take on this circuit. One that could be pedal board friendly. I doubt seriously this would impact any sales on this stomp box, since it's a Japanese made pedal that is not at all ubiquitous in this country. This type of thing is done all the time. Wampler and JHS have a number of pedals that they have their versions of that are still in production and are popular pedals - i.e. Wampler Belle and Ratsbane - JHS Packrat, Bonsai and Muffaletta etc... Realistically, this is a pedal that may not be completely unobtainable, but it certainly would take some time and effort to get ahold of, not to mention the power mod that would have to be done to make it viable on a pedal board.
Thank you for the reminder about Providence. The Anadime Chorus demos had me wanting to get one years ago - they're a bit expensive though I may try and grab one.
I thought this was gonna be about a Dumble in a box type of pedal that the man himself approved of. Still an interesting video though and i learned that his amps, which are considered to be the best by many doesn't take well pedals. I find it weird though given their reputation. No problem for me since i couldn't ever be able to own one, even if i could someday i would probably spend is on something like Amplified Nation. For now my Dumble in a box pedal works very well for me 🙂
Thanks Mason, I appreciate your demos......great job.....I heard Larry Carlton (Dumble user) talk about Overdrive pedals and he talked about the challenge of finding a pedal that works not only with the Dumble but the ES335 guitar. Carlton mentioned he uses a Zenkudo....not my opinion but Larry said it. It might be great for you to do a demo on the Zenkudo???
Very cool! I've had a couple different D clones, and the compression makes them tricky with pedals in front. My Ceriatone OTS is the odd exception. It sounds great with just about everything I've run into it.
I'm not sure about Dumble amps not being a good pedal platform. The clean channel on my Dumble clones takes most overdrive pedals better than my fender amps. The exception is maybe a tubescreamer... it has more mid hump than the Dumble circuit needs in my experience. They also handle fuzz pedals perfectly when an average fender amp would start to get a bunch of ugly fizz. The overdrive channel with a low gain pedal or like a klon with the drive turned down is also amazing. The thing is, with a dumble clone, you have that killer overdrive built into the amp, so no real reason to hit it with an overdrive pedal.
Dumble discouraged people, at least in the Robben Ford/Larry Carlton days from using pedals. Both of them said this to me directly. This might be precipitated by the fact that having an OD channel on board would render an OD pedal unnecessary by Dumble's estimation - not sure on that. I suppose your experience, presuming you've played one could be relegated to the one you played. Overall, for most I've played and users that I've spoken to or worked with over the years all unanimously report poor performance with most pedals. The more mid-range pedals seems to work better into it in fact, e.g. Robben Ford and the Zendrive. Doesn't get much more mid-range than that.
True story here, once I was recording with a guy that rent a dumble (the owner was in the booth) and after a while, the producer goes: it's not sounding good, xxxxx and xxxxx goes what do you mean? you have to mute the strings that you are not playing, then he had to go to the booth to listen and there were lots of little noises, then he slams the door out and came back 10 minutes later and said f**k the dumble give me a real amp... Probably he had his pedalboard in front of the dumble, I don't remember good enough. I'm thinking that this video is totally right for that reason.
Great pedal find and great video too!!!! I wonder what the circuit topology is and what it's nearest neighbor is in the pedal world, that could be a really interesting video as well. Thanks again for another great video here, I can't wait to see what's next.
I looked into it, it’s actually pretty unique, they did some interesting stuff here, and it runs at a pretty high voltage internally. Basically you’d need to separate 18VDC outputs to power it from a supply if you converted it to DC.
@@VertexEffectsInc i went to get the providence sov and i ended up with the xts precision drive. i use yhe dumble as a pedal platform. the clean channel is unreal and works very well for that. now i use kingsley jester and jouster with it as well as an epicenter audio valveboy. and a klon.
@@VertexEffectsInc, that's crazy for a standard drive. I wonder how they routed the power internally to require that much juice. Then again, that was a long time ago in an industry far, far away. Either way, really cool stuff, thank you.
@@willschantz795 at the end there Robben's OD channel hadn't been working right for a few year but couldn't be without the amp for long stretches of time to get it done. He was relying on the Clean Channel and Zendrive for most of the gain and then Boost for solo leads.
@@VertexEffectsInc Before Alf Hermida marketed his Zendrive pedal, Robben Ford used a Providence SOV-1 with a blackface Fender Twin Reverb on fly-in gigs. I’ve owned my SOV-1 since the early 90’s and will not part with mine….
Nice... that pedal with that amp sounds amazing... it just hurts me to see you beating up the neck on that ES-335 at 07:02.. I just can't take my eyes off it.. it really hurts especially 'cause you're so nice ^__^
What's up Doc, I always saw Dumble's with EV speakers. Some with Jbl's but most Very stiff EV's. I always felt Dumble was a fan of Tight almost Stiff "In Yo Face" tone. Not at all what the kids today like. I'm convinced that very few really Know how Dumble's sound. So, a lot of the Myth is just Myth. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE that tone. Give me a Fender Twin or Boogie with D120 JBLS I'm happy. Seen Carlton and Ford running a good old TS9 or 808 into theirs back in the day. FYI Mick Bondy of The Garcia Project recently did a rig rundown. He explains fairly well using a Fender preamp into a McIntosh solid state power amp and mismatching Ohms. to 3 Jbl's . Also, a cool video about an Owsley Stanley Modde'd Princton with Rick Turner the Guitar Builder. Think you would like those.
Yes, sorry...working on photos to document it all so it's an easy DIY project. I will re-respond to these comments when it's up so you know to circle back.
Mason, thats a good segue-way, whats the best way to include a mains powered pedal, like a Providence SOV-1 or a SIB Echo Drive, or a BK Butler (Chandler) Tube driver or a MXR Grey Flanger or an old EH mains powers pedal onto a pedal board? Voodoo Labs? Are there differences to noise floor / considerations to 9 v DC?
I have been told that for fender amplifiers you set the preamp volume at 6 just before breaking up compared to dumble amplifiers you have to set the preamp volume at 3 to 4 and crank up the master volume or it won't work well with a tube screamer, booster pedals, overdrive pedals. The Dumble amplifiers front end are not happy with booster pedals or overdrive pedal in front of the amplifiers preamp section which I'm not sure why that is. The JHS Series 3 has a STRONG MOD, which is suppose to change the headroom of the biasing clipping voltage to a high voltage so its not compressed which works better for dumble amplifiers. Is this true or false? I didn't know that you can change the biasing clipping voltage to a higher voltage for the clipping diodes in the tube screamers because the clipping diodes are in the op amps closed loop circuitry. The higher the biasing voltage applied only to the clipper diodes while the rest of the circuit is at +9vdc this will make the tube screamer drive the dumble amplifiers front end preamp section better?
@@VertexEffectsInc the JHS strong mod tube screamer did something with the headroom so you can drive your fender or dumble front end preamp to hit the breaking up point at a different preamp volume settings. Try it out on your fender and dumble clone amplifier. I'm sure you have a two rocks dumble clone amp in your office or some type of dumble clone amplifier.
@@VertexEffectsInc since the clipping diodes are at a higher biasing voltage more headroom before clipping starts the tube screamer circuitry is still operating at +9vdc
@@michael_caz_nyc When G&L first opened they had a dealership in San Diego, Guitar Trader where I played one and had to have it. Got it and was going to GIT. It made a clicking sound when I switch the pickup selector with my hands not resting on the bridge, so I called and they had me come down on a Saturday.. while with Dale Hiatt at the workbench, Leo snuck up and looked at my guitar. He picked it up and looked at the bridge and said, yes, this was made during the first week of production. He smiled at me and turned around and walked off like he was interrupting. All I could think was.. That is Leo Fender. Don't be uncool.. Don't say anything stupid... I said nothing... except thank you... while he was smiling at me about to walk off. I could hardly shake it off. I felt like I was in shock walking out to my car and driving away. Now, I know what it feels like when a young girl meets her rock star crush and nearly passes out.. lol I am a true fanboy...
Yes I use the clean channel on my BrownNote Blue Monkey(out of prod.)- very stubborn with pedals specially soft clippers like a Love Pedal..etc..however thru a Bogner Metropolis no prob.
This is what’s been reported by many of its most popular users as stated here. And, furthermore, if you make an amplifier with an overdrive built-in, presumably you wouldn’t recommend using external overdrive pedals as a preferred application.
Great Video!!!! Why would the Providence SOV2 not be a contender? They seem like a high quality boutique company that would not sacrifice previous incarnations.
Does the Providence SOV-1 work correctly with dumble amplifiers? I'm not sure why dumble amplifiers won't like pedals on the front end, is it because the dumble input is low impedance or what? Why doesn't vertex make a pedal that will go between guitar pedals and the dumble input jack so any guitar pedal will work correctly with dumble amplifiers. It must be an impedance issue or the input stage is very sensitive to drive the front end stage. It sounds like the dumble front end gets "Blocking Distortion", when using any boosters or overdrive pedals that blocking distortion issues happen?
I'm reporting mostly what I've heard from the most known users (personally) and my experience with the amps and overdrive pedals. Some of the cleaner platforms like the SSS are better, but many of the ODS get very hard with pedals and overdrive into the preamp.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks I didn't know. I'm just saying it could be either a poor design flaws in the dumble amplifiers or it's very sensitive to gain overlap and blocking distortion issues built into the circuit design which the biproduct is that dumble clean compression.
@@waynegram8907 most amps would have to be really cranked an inverted in the master relative to preamp volume to make this happen or do overload the power amp section. It's just not that common, at least in these amps.
The reason that Dumbles are so sought after is their pristine clean tones but more so the singing overdrive channel. Pedals don't belong in front of any Dumble. Get a Fender Deluxe Reverb or Twin and use that as your pedal platform and not a Dumble. Look at Joe Bonnamasa's stage rig. Two Dumbles that sing and a bunch of Fenders for his pedals.
Depends on what model Dumble, a SSS is just a clean channel. I think his pedals are all in series with the amps, and it’s just one drive pedal that’s sorta TS based in the Way Huge OD pedal.
Just out of curiosity, have you played/tried the Providence SOV-2? That’s a more readily available pedal on Reverb, but I’m wondering if there’s any difference besides it being a single channel overdrive?
@@VertexEffectsInc There's a problem. Not only is the SOV-1 "a little hard to find", it virtually does not exist in the US. A Reverb search turns up NOTHING. The company's own website doesn't list it. Why promote a pedal that doesn't exist that optimizes the sound of amplifiers that nobody can afford?
@@VertexEffectsInc I haven’t played an SOV-1, but the FreeTheTone SOV-2 that I use seems to sound pretty close to this. It’s been my favourite overdrive for the past few years
@@AdamMillerGuitar I've compared them all hoping for a smaller solution, it's running +/- 18V...a pedal doing the same would need two 18VDC power supplies to give it the headroom alone that this pedal has. This is why the FTT and the Providence v2's fall short to my ear.
@@VertexEffectsInc sooo, what else, that you've heard, comes close? Anything without a AC plug? P.S. I have an ancient MXR flanger that also has an AC plug, is there a good power supply that you know of that's good at supplying current to these pedals?
I was specifically talking about the overdrive special and reporting what its most famous users have said, the amplifiers that SRV, Santana, and John Mayer all use our a steel string singer, an Amp that doesn’t have an overdrive channel. This couldn’t be more dissimilar from an ODS.
@@VertexEffectsInc still, Dumbles are known for their versatility and an ODS is based on a blackface fender circuit, that take pedals very well. I’ve only heard good things about dirt pedals in ODS (clones) clean channels. I could see how it could be a problem into the overdrive channel. I guess the question is: what do you mean by “it doesn’t take pedals well”? If that means that “that dumble sound” will still be there on top of the pedal sound, I guess it makes sense, but that’s what happens also when you stack overdrives. The last pedal voices overall.
Now, an SSS or something like a TR Traditional clean and CR does in fact take pedals great, but those are from a different elk than the ODS or other ODS style amplifiers.
Sounds to me similar to MXR Fet drive ? Sort of full range drive, like a tube driver or other similar pedals. And that actually make sense,I member haw I heard in interviews Eric Johnson stayed that it’s sound like more saturation that keep character of sound. So I’m hearing same things going on here.
providence sounded better, had a little bit more sizzle on the top... buut someone else will oppose my thoughts, and thats what matters. the sound you like should be the sound you use.
Maybe it sounds better in the room. In this video the pedal seems to be overloaded and cuts out. Pretty flat and fizzy to my ears. And yes, I’m using decent headphones. Bose earbuds in fact. I’ll pass on this one.
I dont have a tube amp yet soon I will more likely fender or ceriatone but I have a marshall solid state amp....what pedal or tube pedal would be best if trying to get close to a Dumble sound ?
I recommend our Ultraphonix: www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UltraPhonmkII--vertex-effects-ultraphonix-mk-ii-overdrive-pedal?mrkgadid=1000000&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gtext&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=guitars&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=43700066094455670&lid=43700066094455670&ds_s_kwgid=58700007380683198&device=c&network=g&matchtype=e&adpos=largenumber&locationid=9032071&creative=542703773668&targetid=kwd-624338144123&campaignid=1079966087&awsearchcpc=1&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=CjwKCAjwquWVBhBrEiwAt1KmwqtNV2KJvh89O6Okfh8Korp63F3FrncVwY6jvLLaMuY5gL3ub1-uLxoC_V4QAvD_BwE
I love the sound your getting but I’m not really hearing anything other than a nice transparent overdrive that’s smooth.. that’s how I like my overdrive to sound.. I hate when it gets muddy and this pedal sounds great but I see so many pedals on the market that do this very same thing. Maybe I’m tone deaf but I just don’t really see where it’s so different. I feel the same about the Klon pedals as well. This is where someone will say “ have you tried a lot of pedals”… yes but my 335 through a deluxe with the right pedal sounds similar and my carr impala sounds similar to this with no pedal at all if you use the volume and master correctly??
I guess that you'd need to take my word for it that it's probably one of the most versatile transparent ODs out there with pretty much any amp platform. Obviously to create a real baseline on how it compares to others we'd of needed to have them in the video too to calibrate.
It's a matter of this being a pedal that actually produces USEFUL sounds when run thru a Dumble. I've never even seen a Dumble from a distance, much less played through one, but I did own a Vox AC-15-- another amp notorious for refusing to play nice with pedals. A pedal that will, with most amps, give you a nice boost with a little breakup, would with the Vox produce a sonic mess that made you never want to play guitar again. Whereas something like the Hot Cake got a beautiful, singing, chiming drive... but that was about the only pedal that did so easily and without having to "surround" it with compressors and buffers, etc, to smooth out the sound.
I think what this video really demonstrates is how important the musical context is to the perceived "tone" coming out of the amplifier. In almost all of the examples I thought the amp's overdrive sounded better than the pedal, and it definitely is smoother. But when Mason played that last riff, with the power chords in G minor, I thought the pedal's overdrive worked better. The grittiness and crunchiness that the pedal gives is more appropriate for that guitar part than the smoother sound of the amp. That's my opinion.
There are super useful applications for both depending on what you'd want. I could see the amp's EQ working better in a mix than the pedal. Sometimes too smooth gets buried easily.
@@VertexEffectsInc that’s my preferred, accessible, dumble-esque style overdrive pedal. Works great with every amp I’ve tried it with it as well, including a magnatone twilighter stereo. So that’s what it has to do with this, I guess.
@@obsoletecd-rom But this isn't about Dumble style pedals, it's about pedal that work well into Dumble style amps - this pedal not Dumble sounding. This is said in the video. If you want a Dumble ODS Style pedal, check out our Ultraphonix MKII, based on several actual Dumble ODS amps :)
Agree. Get a flat-eq, transparent overdrive, a studio-style compressor and an eq and you can accomplish a ton. Drive > EQ > compressor. Spend money on a great amp and stop buying 20 overdrive pedals.
Fender original tube amp design..anything after is an extension of the original..the reissues are great..every guitarist should have one..they love pedals...marshall copied the first fenders..then some copied marshalls and so on...If we are still groovin on stevie remember he had more than one amp on stage (at least one was a fender)as well as effects .If John Mayer is the gold standard.for tone..and I love john but seriously ...really...its good but ..wow..the original fender design has a ton of mods available..tumnus through deluxe sounds spanky.
@@VertexEffectsInc To some extent yes,I'm just saying the Fender Deluxe style tube is the best for what I'd call ground zero.The most recorded and versatile .I've used several different modelers.(plexi.recto,etc.) and the reproduction is very consistent..The Dumble, don't know if i've ever even seen one in real life..watching several different demos if the presenter uses some unknown amp ,unless it's a clone ,I mean I dunno right..you do a great job and I like your videos..you should have heard our dicussion on transparent overdrives..lol..just a tone dog diggin the tones..thanks eh!
The gain and push knobs work together. Both near halfway got plenty of grit but you can still hear all the notes in most chords and clean up nice at guitar half volume. The push effect sweet spot for me is where you can just start to detect in in lower register and can be exaggerated by plucking closer to bridge.
What is the problem of using a Red Llama, DOD250, Toy Robot or other working class OD on an OD Special? What negative behavior are you actually talking about?
You can try it, I'm just reporting what I've experienced and what other long-time users have said about many of the Dumble amps. Remember, this is about what Dumble approved, not what I approved.
I will not buy or listen to any amp not made by Dumble. giggles. Mass hysteria; lack of knowledge and lots of money to buy into the Klon-type wokeness = foolishness. I enjoyed this video. Thank you sir.
