The Patriot (2000) *Extended Edition* - MOVIE REACTION - FIRST TIME WATCHING 

That last battle, called Cowpens, is where one of my American ancestors died. Cheeky Brits ;-). That is also where, last year, unmarked graves were found, and a Scot was returned to his native land courtesy of both armies.

"I don't know if that tomahawk's gonna do much." 😆.

You gotta understand that most warfare up to this point is two armies in an open field hitting each other with ranged weapons before charging. It feels weird and illogical because they have guns but if it was a line of archers it would seem perfectly normal. It is an archaic form of war but appropriate based on the weapons of the time. Muzzle loaded black powder rifles have limited range compared to modern rifles so you have to move in relatively close. A skilled soldier could fire three shots per minute. The most effective use of these types of guns is large unified volleys of fire. And while guerilla style raids and ambushes were highly effective during the Revolutionary War there were still important and decisive victories on the open battlefield. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

The rocking chairs were built by a Master Craftsman near me. He built them the way he always did, to last. When filming, the crew couldn't get the chairs to break because they were made so well. They kept cutting them until they finally broke. They were used to props, not real furniture built by a Master.

This is loosely based on the competition between South Carolina resident Francis "Swamp Fox" Marion and British General Banastre "The Butcher" Tarleton.

Fun fact -- Lord Cornwallis claimed to be sick so he didn't participate in the surrender ceremony. His deputy, General O'Hara, attempted to surrender to the French commander. The French commander refused to accept Cornwallis' sword and indicated he should surrender to General Washington. As O'Hara was Cornwallis' second in command - he was directed to surrender to Washington's second-in-command, General Benjamin Lincoln. Lincoln (no relation to the president) commanded the forces which were captured at Charleston, the Americans' greatest defeat of the war. Lincoln had orchestrated the escape of the South Carolina militia before the surrender.

Have fun with this one. It's a conglomerate of several personalities that existed during the war. Gibson seems to be modeled after Francis Marion "Swamp Fox" with typical cinematic embellishments. The British calvary officer is based on Lt. Col. Banastre Tarleton (known as "the butcher" he did fight very dirty). He was soundly defeated by the Americans at the Cowpens battle, lived through it and went on to fight in many more British Empire battles around the world. The scene after he gets Gabriel back is "Don't annoy daddy".

“I’m pretty sure they didn’t fight like this” …. Oh they absolutely did.

The British blew a 13 colony lead! Wilderness campaign was a campaign in the French and Indian War (7 Years War) - Washington gained his initial fame on that front. As others noted the firing in rows was due in part to the inaccuracy / lack of range of muskets - these weren’t rifles. The guerrilla tactics shown in use by Benjamin’s men did occur in the Revolution and were seen by the Brits as uncivilized / un gentlemanly conduct.

As I understand it, the colonists were basically divided into roughly thirds, where 1/3 were Torres, 1/3 were Colonial separatists and the final third didn’t really care either way, possibly because they were simply trying to eke out the necessities of life. It’s also of note that of all the colonials at that time, only 3% took up arms against the Crown, literally THE superpower of the period.

If you're still interested: There were three main reasons why armies of this time period fought like that. 1. Command and control. Remember, there are no radios. Officers have to relay orders via shouted commands, flags, drums and other instruments. Troops had to be formed up so close together to actually see and hear their orders. 2. The inaccuracy of muskets. These weapons were only effective up to about 80 metres. They are also very unreliable, having 1 in 5 misfire rate even in ideal dry conditions. Such formations concentrated firepower and presented a literal wall of lead to the enemy. It also provided a workaround regarding the unreliability of the muskets and their slow rate of fire. If your musket didn't work it wouldn't matter since the other several hundred of the men in formation with you probably did. When the first line of men fired they usually stepped to the side or kneeled to allow the second line of men to fire. The third line of men were usually handed fired muskets to reload while they sent loaded muskets to the front ranks. This allowed for a constant volume of fire of fire. The slow rate of fire of muskets (usually 1 - 2 rounds in battlefield conditions) wouldn't be a problem. 3. Defense against cavalry. Scatteted infantry are easy targets for horsemen. By forming up into dense lines like that the infantry could fire concentrated volleys into charging cavalry or form squares. The all-round defensive formation allowed for fire in all directions and prevented actual charges from forming as horses aren't dumb and will not charge directly into a wall of bayonets and men (mostly). There were exceptions of course but the horses were often extremely aggressive and their riders near suicidal in their bravery and morale. It's a propaganda myth that the Americans were the first to use guerilla style warfare. All major European powers had light infantry skirmishers in their armires. Men whose job was to scout, spread out and use cover and specifically target officers. The British were no different. Skirmishers can't win a battle by themselves though. Think of it this way. Skirmishers did exist in pre-gunpowder armies; these being archers, javelin throwers, slingers, etc, light infantry meant to scout, harass and disrupt enemy formations. But once the main battle started they would fall back while the main army fought in dense formations. What this movie leaves out of course is the French providing the overwhelming majority of the gunpowder, muskets, artillery cannons and uniforms, and both France and Spain declaring war on Britain. The British had to fight both the French and Spanish and put down the revolution.

One of my favorite movies!!

Very perceptive commentary guys. Love it

Many people can't understand the tactics generally used at this time because their conception of guns is modern. Those used took 20-30 seconds to load, were only truly accurate at about 50 metres and simply failed to fire often. If they spread out cavalry would quickly destroy them and firing would be nearly useless. Guns at this time usually didn't even have sights, so massing fires was the way.

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence? What fates befell them for daring to put their names to that document? Five signers were captured by the British as traitors and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army, another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War. They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor. What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured. Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags. Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward. Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton. At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt. Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months. John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year, he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later, he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates. Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more.

Based on Francis Marion “the Swamp Fox” who led a band of raiders from the swamps where no Brit organized unit could follow.

Master and Commander was only 25-30 years after this movie so it was kinda close enough to be the same time period.

Fun Fact: The cinematography for this movie was done by Caleb Deschanel, Zoe Deschanel (New Girl)'s father.

Tarleton was real and the last battle happened just that way..they say it is one of the greatest military victories ever..convincing an opposing enemy force that you are retreating the field of battle only to fall back ..re-group and have regular army on both flanks for support of new positions..to take the English by surprise…stopping them cold..and making the English commander to leave the field of battle..at the time..South Carolina was the scene of major battles..before the battle up north..at Saratoga, New York..soon after..

Col. Tarlton was very well known for extremely brutal treatment and tactics, in fact he would have made the SS look like chior boys, wars at this time frame was very different from what we're use to today. Some things are embellished for the story but all the tactics were used by the British army all over the world (the church scene was common in Scotland)

When this came out reviewers trashed the film. Making the British army into straight-up Nazis was a-historical to say the least.

The tactics of just standing in a line and firing actually had a lot of sense given the weaponry they had at their disposal. Those guns were LOTTA inaccurate and in order to actually make it worth, you had to have a lot of people in a line shooting in the same direction. That's why it almost always ended up with a charge.

If you’re interested in seeing a more realistic portrayal of America’s story of Independence, I’d highly recommend the 7 part miniseries from HBO (Max), titled, “John Adams.” All star cast and critically acclaimed.

The tactics that you're looking at going muzzle to muzzle is basically the concept of the numbers game you psychologically scare your opponent with larger numbers the larger the numbers the greater influence you have on the battlefield secondly the dragoons were more of a cavalry special forces, and as far as the children dying that has then because Britain had been in so many wars for the last 1000 years that they've had so many psychological impacts on them that it was easier just to kill any male child or man that basically held a weapon against them

Ramblers, I love your reactions! The American Revolution was officially from 1776-1783. The American Civil War was 1861-1865. Actually, Benjamin "The Ghost" Martin in the film is based on the real-life Brigadier General Francis Marion, known in those days as "The Swamp Fox. "Butcher" Tavington in this film is based on the real-life Colonel Banastre "Butcher" Tarleton, who commanded a regiment of dragoons--mostly colonials who remained loyal to King George III. On May 29, 1780 Tarleton won the lop-sided Battle of The Waxhaws in northern South Carolina. Tarleton lost control of his men, who believed Tarleton had been killed, and they then murdered many of the surrendered Continentals. The British lost 5 killed; the colonials lost 113 killed. (The disparity in those numbers reflects the killing of prisoners.) As a result, Tarleton earned the name of "Butcher" among the colonists. Surrendering was referred to as "quarter." Many Continentals subsequently shot surrendering British soldiers and called such an act "Tarleton's Quarter" in revenge. Tarleton was eventually promoted to general officer and later WAS a member of Parliament. So, whatever shame may have accrued from his men killing surrendered soldiers certainly did not hold him back from advancement. (The Waxhaws is what Gabriel briefly alluded to at 8:15 when he said that the British dragoons charged into the Virginia regulars). It was indeed a bloody, terrible war. (I graduated college in South Carolina with a major in history and had the great opportunity to visit the battlefields and key locations of both the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. Regards the Revolution, SC was surprisingly the scene of more engagements than any other colony. As the war dragged-on, and as the populace became more and more polarized over actual and rumored war crimes, the fighting became neighbor-against-neighbor and for all practical purposes, people could no longer play both sides. it was a civil war within the state.)

It's a visually attractive film and I enjoy some of the performances but it takes shockingly indecent liberties with history, which other comments have touched on. One of the more uncomfortable aspects is how the film squares slavery and the plantation economy with a war for freedom. It mostly weasels out of it by pointedly making Benjamin Martin an "employer" of free people while avoiding the status Aunt Charlotte's workers. Benjamin also has Occam make his own mark, but it doesn't change the fact that Occam had no choice; his owner handed him over for Benjamin to use and he expected him back when it was over. Also, while much is made about Occam being able to earn his freedom for 12 months of service, it is never mentioned that the British offered freedom to any runaway slave who would join the army. This is one of many, many Mel Gibson films where he plays widower. In fact, in his first 30+ years of screen roles, most of his characters either begin as widowers or see their wife or partner/girlfriend die during the film.

2:57 Julia from Nip/Tuck... will never be anyone other than Julia to me lol

I’ll watch until the revenge scene…. If you’re good I’ll watch the whole thing. This movie is long but really moving. 🇺🇸

Americans paused the charge @47:25 to avoid getting shot point blank, which would have drastically increased casualties.

A criticism by an historian "There are so few films depicting the Revolutionary War that it’s hard to criticize them. I knew one day I would have to give my review of The Patriot, starring Mel Gibson, but I have put it off for a long time. Before I begin, I need to put forth the disclaimer that I own this film and sometimes will leave it running in the background while I do other things. It’s a little like an alcoholic turning to mouthwash in desperation. “Hi, I’m Dan and I am an 18th Century addict”--admitting your problem is the first step, right? From a film critic’s point of view, The Patriot is a dodgy movie. It has an uneven script with overly villainous villains, pacing problems, and a tendency to shift from soppy sentimentality to vicious brutality. Many of the faults fall right in the lap of director Roland Emerich, whom you might remember from such campy sci-fi romps as The Day After Tomorrow or Independence Day. Why you would hire an over-the-top Hessian sci-fi director to tell the story of America’s birth is beyond me. The best things about The Patriot as a film are the talented cast, beautiful cinematography, and excellent score by John Williams. These elements save this film, to the extent it can be saved. From an historian’s point of view, this film is a nightmare. The problems range from inaccurate costuming choices (apparently we viewers are too stupid to understand anything but red and blue uniforms) to complete butchery of battles, motivations, morals and actions. To enumerate the errors would take as long as the war itself. The problems may have begun when they took what was originally a script about Patriot hero Francis Marion and decided to improve history through re-writing, but it’s hard to say when the first big blunder occurred. You could argue that they made their changes to make a better story, but the results are something like making a film of 9-11 with Italian Hijackers. The meaning of the history is lost, and our understanding is compromised. I know I am being hard on what is, in fact, simply an entertainment. Still, a film such as this bears a certain responsibility. Many people take their only knowledge of Revolutionary War history from some dim distant grade school memories and whatever they see in this film. In fact, because we have no photographs or recordings from the 18th century, a film like The Patriot will actually have a more powerful place in people’s memories than all the hours spent learning in school. So I beg you, if you watch this movie, treat the history in it like perfume and not fine wine; sniff, don’t swallow. I will be watching The Patriot again, of course. After all, I’m addicted to the 18th century; I can complain about the air all I want, but what else is there to breathe?" Reviewed by Dan Shippey Breed's Hill Institute October 2009 (Breed's Hill was the other hill in the Battle of Bunker Hill that was at the beginning of the American Revolutionary War).

You never heard of Tarleton's quarter. Look it up. Yes, higher officers dress him down. Oh, the baddie is Banister Tarleton. Mel Gibson's character is loosely based on Francis Marion.

First like. Wooo!

I would Love to see a George Washington Movie

I love this movie and I love seeing Mel Gibson at his best but my favorite of his movies is "The Year of Living Dangerously", a Peter Weir film also starring Sigourney Weaver at the peak of her hotness and Linda Hunt, who won an Oscar for an incredible performance. No one remembers this one so no one will recommend it. Oh, well.

The tactic of firing in lines was a means to maximize the weapon accuracy and area of effect given they were vastly inaccurate due to being smooth bore muskets. They were slow firing, slow reloading muskets without the rifling grooves in the barrel caused the weapons to struggle at distance. Usually the line battles were fought at enough distance to allow people to either push forward or retreat based on losses and manpower, too close and the weapons become significantly more accurate resulting in significant casualties too fast, the musketballs were typically larger than 50 caliber bullets of today and were often made of lead so you can imagine getting hit has horrible consequences, while they were not designed to penetrate flesh the damage was probably horrible if the musketball were to shatter through flesh and organs, or if it did not shoot clean through you would then have a person with a huge gaping hole in them and incredible blunt force trauma on top of a potential lead poisoning. So the battles were fought in a measured way I'd say, lots of light infantry fighting behind cover with longer range rifles were used to screen the main body of infantry as to prevent the enemy from advancing closer, also to intercept retreating units dispatched from battle... but against lines of infantry the tactics we have today probably struggle without the technology of our time. So virtually all forms of line battles at the time were designed around 'show of force' and 'fire superiority', and the losing side in this case Americans were vastly outnumbered in some of these battles especially going up against field artillery. The field artillery was used as a means to dissuade enemy troops from advancing, usually fired ahead of advancing enemy troops. I imagine it is hard for a group of infantry to move towards cannons that are designed to maximize area of effect, some kinds of cannon could take out many troops at once. This was the case into the 1800's, and Napoleon Bonaparte revolutionized formations so troops could move safer to avoid being wiped out by artillery, he also learned to use towns and villages with roads as a form of supporting troop movements so that he could not only scout out enemy advancements but also keep the army well fed and coordinate troop concentration with flexibility. Many battles he fought he seemed to have the edge in because of how well structured his logistics and intel was, but also his brilliant strategical and tactical use of different types of units on the field.

Saw a great t-shirt recently here in the States, just in time for July 4th: "Make America Great Britain Again!" with the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes side by each. Cheeky 😀

You’re rooting for the wrong team !! 🇬🇧

our ancestors took their rights much more seriously than we do, today... back then, if the supreme court had ruled a president had almost unlimited power while in office, as ours did, the people would have dragged those justices into the street and... well, we'd need to nominate and confirm a bunch of new supreme court justices.

It’s not tin soldiers it’s lead soldiers

Your reaction warms my American heart. I've always said that in recent times, our best, most reliable allies are the British rather than the Canadians.

This movie was a smipleton cartoon that didn't care a lick for historical events. And even though Banastre Tarleton was indeed a real @ss, If I were a Brit I would be pretty offended by some of the BS.

You're correct. It wasn't guerrilla warfare. It was terrorism.

I do not agree with taking POW's. They agreed to kill and be a soldier, only when they lose, they take the coward's way out and say "we surrender." Suppose he's the one who did Madeye? (Harry Potter reference)

This is OK. Try "Braveheart" for Mel Gibson doing this story right.

They butchered the history. It is a mish mash. I know a lot of Brits got upset with how they portrayed Cornwallis. Tarleton was a bastard but the move did go over the top. There are historical people, battles and combination of people and events as the foundation but it gets all Hollywooded. The final battle is based on the battle of Cowpens or Gilford Court House. The Colonials put the militia out, knowing the British had no respect for them. They broke and the British broke ranks in pursuit. The regulars were in the woods and routed the British that were advancing in disorder. The French fleet was damaged in a storm crossing the Atlantic. Once Cornwalis entrenched in Yorktown the southern army linked up with the Frenach and Washington's armies. The French fleet defeated the British in the Chesapeake Bay. General Clinton, for some unknown reason, didn't move his army or fleet down to support Cornwallis. Upon news of the surrender hit London, Lord North was said to say: 'My god. It's all over.' Yorktown was the last major battle of the American Revolution . The American Revolution was a slow burn that ramped up. It really began years before but came to a head in the mid 1970's. Massachusetts is where a lot of the insurrection occurred. They burned the Governor's home. They routinely tarred and feathered different government reps when the British passed laws in London with no Colonial representation.

This type of warfare showcases chivalry. However, bushwhacking tactics, although smart, effective, and even necessary, breaks the chivalry.

It is entirely possible to enjoy a movie that's bad history--of course! But as everything in America has become politicized, and history is THE academic area that most often provides the battleground for those seeking to seize control of the future, I think that it is important to preserve the truth. (Feel free to stop reading here.) Most importantly: THAT IS NOT WHAT THE AFRICAN AMERICAN EXPERIENCE WAS. This movie does the reactionary thing of presenting _WASP_ history as American history, in which other groups are lucky to occasionally play supporting roles. The historical experience of Americans who were enslaved is no less legitimate and no less American than those who held slaves. Of course movies follow characters, and it's a fool's errand to make one character somehow aspire to be universal. But that does not excuse the portrayal of black people in this movie. If they are to be supporting characters, they still deserve the dignity of a plausible existence. This is very, very much like making a history of the British Raj and portraying a Bengali (to pick an ethnicity) family in the middle of the 1880s famines as being super eager to help the British and absolutely crestfallen that they can't do more to make the sahib's family more comfortable. This pretends to avoid a political point while actually making a horrifying one. There's also a strong and ridiculous undercurrent of "American manly, British sissy" running through this. Gibson seems primarily concerned with being the biggest badass around, including always having the "best" ideas as though everyone else fought wars in obviously stupid ways instead of ways that reflected reality. Furthermore, as other comments have noted, the British atrocities were bad but not this kind of N**i bad in general. Oh, and "tarring and feathering," done mostly by the colonists, was coating a person in hot tar (a torture of burning), and then coating with feathers to humiliate; the colonists often did worse. I could _definitely_ keep going. I am as patriotic as anyone and I love my country. I just think love involves truth. And that, to me, is the ultimate sin of this movie: making history to make yourself out as the untarnished good guy is the coward's way, and my country can be better than that. Eff the reactionary sissies who can only love this kind of parody of their country. ...But, I mean, it can still be an entertaining movie. Braveheart was better.

Have to stop watching fifteen minutes in. . .so much talk that is so wrong about the situation, the people, the whole war in the Colonies. Oh well. I trust you gained some Roland Emmerich tainted knowledge by the end. Enjoy most of your reactions, this one just frustrated me.

Garbage movie.

This movie sucked.