The Platform (Dead Meat Podcast #98) 

"I can't shit upwards" is such a matter-of-fact ridiculous statement but also kind of ties into Chelsea's statement on charity. People can pressure their peers and those below them to donate to a cause, but it's way harder to get those that are better off than them to listen and contribute to improving the system.

I think the administrative lady killed herself when they woke up on level 205 because that's when she realized she'd been lied to about how deep the floors go by the administrators meaning the food would never be enough

I don't think that 'the boy' was a translation error, it's more so how rumors spread and the details get lost by passing it around

The guy that decided to bring duffle bag full of beef jerky is probably fist-pumping

The platform is full of everyone's favorite food. If everyone just ate their favorite food then everyone would eat.

I'm I the only one that's right away thought "this building is underground" It's a basement that's goes 333 floors down into the earth.

My favorite theory that I've seen is that you are rewarded for cannibalism or for killing in the tower. We can see that when Goreng survives with Trimagasi, they drop from level 48 to level 171. After Goreng kills and eats Trimagasi, he rises up to floor 33 with Imoguiri. After they survive together again, they drop down to floor 202. After he eats her body, he rises up to floor 6. This symbolizes how society rewards selfishness and stepping on others. I think the panna cotta theory is viable, in that Goreng is definitely dying at the end. On floor 333, he's already dying and drags himself to the platform, but in the bottom floor, he sees Trimagasi's illusion and just gets up and walks away from him. This means that he and Baharut could be imagining the girl, as he wanted to justify Miharu's killing spree after her death. He imagines the girl, hence why the room doesn't turn hot or cold after the Panna Cotta isn't tossed; the room never existed. The panna cotta is what's actually brought back up in the end, where the chef finds it and gets angry at the cooks because he thinks that it wasn't eaten because of the hair. When interviewed, the director of the movie said that he envisioned floor 333 as not existing and that it was Goreng imagining what he should have done.

"I'm not a murderer" Ok Jigsaw, whatever gets you through the day

Can’t wait for the kill count on this film

i think the monthly changes even reflect the month by month situations that a lot of poor people live in. You can be good one month, but then one small slip up leads to a rough next month

Spanish is a gendered language but when speaking of “kids” or ‘kid” we use “niños” or “niño” so when someone doesn’t know the gender of a child or there are a group of children of multiple genders one typically uses the masculine term. Just trying to clear up the confusion 😅

A minor critique: While St. Bernard does guide Dante, that is only at the very end of the Paradiso; Virgil guides Dante through Hell and Purgatory, and Beatrice guides Dante through almost all of Heaven. Also, the very random nature of being moved up and down the prison feels in conflict with the fixed and poetic justice nature of the Divine Comedy; it's a much more nihilistic view of life and morality, up to and including becoming the ubermensch (literally coming from above each other level as he descends), not from a desire to dominate, but in an effort to create morality and in the defense of beauty and art. (That said, 333 is a traditional holy number in certain Christian mystic schools of thought, as the perfect representation of the triune God, so it's not like that symbolism is *totally* absent, but it's... let's say, of diminished import)

It’s amazing how the movie is so immersive that you don’t question how the platform moves or how they move through levels.

I respect the hell out of james taking a second to make sure he understands what Chelsea's saying before he agrees with her. That kind of integrity, even with your fiance, is a reason why I appreciate your opinion so much.

I was thinking the place was put in the ground that’s why they ended in the void representing a end or hell type place

My interpretation of the ending is that the little girl is always on the bottom level. the higher ups in the administration know she's there and don't want anyone to know that a child is suffering due to their "perfect" system. So the mother rides down to the bottom level each month to make sure she eats. The reason I believe she is always at the bottom is because (as this film is an allegory for capitalism) she represents all the innocent children who are born into this system and are unable to change it themselves, whose parents have to do terrible things just to make sure that their children can survive. They are always either ignored or forgotten about during conversations of "fixing" capitalism. Do children deserve to suffer, starve? Most people say no, but then we have children in schools going into lunch dept because their family can't afford to pay for lunch. And people make all sorts of excuses for why it's the fault of the family for not applying for a free lunch program or making sure that their child has food, instead of questioning the system (as you said earlier in the podcast). The child in this movie wasn't the intended target of the system, but the system itself is why she is in it (allowing inmates to do whatever they want to each other, which allowed her mother to be raped and impregnated). What do they hope to happen when she is sent to the top? I think it's like you two said, they hope to cause a domino effect that will change the system. Surely people would never allow a system to remain in place that allows innocent children to starve and suffer, something I already stated that the majority of people would agree is not something that should even exist, let alone be tollerated. What actually happens when she is sent to the top? Well, we already know the answer to that, don't we?

I actually quite liked this. I found the ending underwhelming and it was a little underexplained, but in general it was a good spoopy movie.

Interesting that yall assume it's in a building. I imagine that it was underground

Chelsea totally nailed the messages of the film

THANK YOU for not shying away from the politics and openly discussing what you honestly thought of the movie and it's messages! Suuuuper tired of people bitching about "being too political", like, dude just go watch Trasnformers for the 17th time if you're not interested in movies having something to say Also I really liked your conclusions and the social commentary you both extracted from this, really cool to hear your opinions ^^

The play no exit is about Hell and the message ends up being that "people are hell". With 333 floors, there are 666 patients, and they are the reason they are messed up, in the movies eyes. It is also interesting to see the people put so much effort into the food, but they do not see the result, only that no food returns to the top. They dont know how the food is eaten, just that it is gone. Liked this movie a lot, would highly recommend!

What I didn't understand is why more people on the lower levels didn't try riding the platform up to the top?

This movie was super good, I was super confused the whole time but it was overall very good and executed the consent well overall.

I felt like this movie's message relates to what everyone is going through at the moment.... If you only ate what you needed, everyone could have food.... Like if everyone only took what they needed the rest of us would have toilet paper, hand sanitizer, tissues, milk, sugar, rice, etc... Moral of the story.... STOP HOARDING!

15:03 god the cat He/she's looking right at my soul

I also like that each room has 2 prisoners, meaning there are 666 prisoners in total

One of the movies that got people arguing because of the ending/plot 😂

The movie was actually WAY less political than I thought it would be; I was worried it'd pivot into a pretentious preachy completely misinformed piece of shit that beats you over the head about the evils of capitalism. Instead, it was a fun movie with an interesting premise and light messaging not just about politics but human nature as well. I mean obviously it was pro-socialism in its messaging but it was also actually willing to critique it as well (which makes sense given Spain's past struggles with fascist socialist dictators). Ending was a little abrupt but overall I very much enjoyed it.

I was thinking that the building went into the ground so I thought it was a floor or two high

I never get tired of watching Chelsea try to protect poor Lucy's dignity, you guys are lucky Lucy doesn't have snapchat

Every time they say "Pannacotta" I just think of that freaking JoJo character.

Okay, I‘m really confused now but am I the only one that heard the women who used to work for the facility say that she interviewed the „mother“ 10 month ago? Which would mean that she could have only been in there for 15 month tops so the child couldn‘t be this old yet. I actually rewatched the scene in english, german and spanish and though my spanish isn‘t the best I‘m pretty sure she said the 10 month thing in all of the versions. That‘s why I believe the Pannacotta-theory to be true...

So happy you're covering this movie!! It's the first thing I've watched in a while that really left me with a lot of thoughts & a need to discuss it. I have a lot of thoughts so sorry in advance for this long comment! I definitely agree with the Divine Comedy comparison! The number 3 has a lot of meaning in general in Christianity, being the number of the Trinity - God, the Son (Jesus), & the Holy Ghost. Also, the first level is 48, & if you use numerology - 4+8 = 12, 1+2 = 3. Level 171 is similar: 1+7+1 = 9, 9/3 = 3 (like level 333 is 3+3+3 = 9; there are also three people on this level - Goreng, Baharat, & the girl). Level 33 - more threes, but 3+3 = 6, which is a number connected to the devil. 202: 2+0+2 = 4, which is the number of death in Japan - but I think it's mostly just to show that there are more than 200 levels. Level 6 - as above, a number connected to the devil but also 6/2 (two people) = 3. I also feel like the VSMC/the Hole is somewhat "neutral" in that each floor only has meaning when it is assigned by the individuals in the building. It's a capitalist hell when the individuals on the upper floors decide to be selfish, but it can also become a socialist community if everyone agrees to ration the food. The fact that everyone changes floors once per month gives everyone an equal opportunity to thrive/suffer as determined by the greater community. There is no way to stockpile resources (food etc) to maintain the power you have while you're at the top. Everyone has a chance to share one anothers' perspective of life at the top/bottom/middle class. I definitely see Miharu as a version of Mary, Jesus' mother - her child apparently didn't come into the facility with her, but still appears as a sort of immaculate conception (plus Goreng has a sexual dream about Miharu which connects to this; this would make Goreng the film's representation of Joseph). But on that note, can we actually believe what the characters tell us? eg. Imaguri says she didn't know the truth about the Hole, but is that just a lie she tells to soothe her own guilt? This leads into the idea of unreliable narration - even Goreng's motivations aren't entirely clear. We're left wondering, what is the truth? You become suspicious of everyone else, just like the characters themselves do. Regarding Imaguri's cancer: this could represent the "evil" or corruption she's been complicit in. She chose to ignore the truth while it festered beneath her, and only allowed herself to see the truth once she could no longer ignore it. As for the panna cotta - I feel like it's regarded as such an important thing because in the inmates' world, food is the most important/holy thing. But as you said, they realize that feeding the little girl is what's actually important (& if you follow the idea of the immaculate conception, the girl represents Jesus, the incarnation of sacrifice). As well, since people become food in the Hole, the girl herself is essentially just another thing to eat; yet she still returns unscathed - just like their original plan. She hasn't been devoured by the system. If you've read this far: a) thank you! & b) I cannot believe this ended with you mentioning Passion of the Christ haha! Thanks for the amazing podcast episode! ♥ Can't wait for the next one!

Bringing a living being into that place is a horrifying thing to imagine

The movie gave me cube vibes and I LOVE IT

I just graduated with degrees in sociology and criminology and I just really appreciate your analysis and rationale of the characters. Being trapped in poverty absolutely causes the worst types of things, you guys nailed it.

27:40 This is actually not the case. It is actually relative poverty that causes aggressive crime. Relative poverty is very different from poverty. Poverty is when everyone does not have enough to eat and survive. Relative poverty is when you don't have enough to eat and your neighbor does or vice versa. The places and communities with the highest Gini coeffecient (most wealth distribution) have the highest crime rates. However places that are in complete penury with a flat wealth distribution have almost no crime at all because everyone is in the same situation. The tower prison in this movie is a perfect example of relative poverty, not poverty. Just something interesting.

James calling him Tiramisu all episode is golden 🤣

I have a theory that the child was planted there as a sort of test by the establishment, that or acts as more a symbolic scenario than something that actually unfolds. by this point both protagonists are delirious and worn out, could easily have been a strange hallucination or fantasy

Maybe she says boy to hide the fact that there's a young girl in a correctional facility? I haven't seen the movie yet so I don't know the full context but maybe that's why.... Edit: especially if she herself was rape

i love these podcasts since they help nudge me towards watching a movie i would otherwise ignore or be hesitant to watch

Reminds me of a quote. “There are all theses stories of so grate hero that sacrifices them self to save the day. And with there sacrifice the survivors all chear and the good guys win. But the hero doesn’t get to see that ending they will never know if there sacrifice really made a difference they will never know if the day was really saved.”

Thank you, guys, for never shutting the cat out of the room when you record these.

I don't think Chelsea should be scared to voice her opinion on this movie. She always seems so timid when pointing on certain facts, especially if they are political in nature.

Im thinking the people who control the system know about the child and keep her on the bottom floor, or the mother put her there and feeds her kinda like you guys touched on, or the last thing which is the sickest if she was born there she wouldn't act like a normal child so maybe she got put on a floor or something to get her into a situation where she needed to escape so she found a safe place and ate whatever she could to still look healthy?? just my ideas im a huge fan of yall and i was so happy you guys covered this in a podcast but low key a kill count would be fun but maybe not worth the time.

I think I read somewhere that the director said he’s actually really dead by the time the platform reaches 333 and it’s all fake

My theory about the ending is that the girl didn't exist because everything about a child being there makes no sense at all in this story unless you take in account she could be another hallucination. there are multiple reasons to think this. First of Miharu never actually talked to anyone, even the one showing kindness towards her so the whole thing about her son/kid could easily be made up my inmates to explain her going down. The girl itself is way to well-fed for someone that has been living on 333, the child being in there makes no sense at all because why would a child be in the facility to begin with? Miharu still came in alone, many people discredit the women her words because she got some information like the platform wrong but that's simply because she was told that. With Miharu she personally handled her case and file so she knew everything about Mihura since she had gained that information herself and wasn't just told that, hence why that information can be trusted. Furthermore both of them lost a lot of blood when getting down there so hallucinations would be common, during the whole last part our protagonist was limping but in the end he was walking straight so he was prob already dead at that point even hallucinating the whole scene with the child eating the dessert. The message was still the dessert and the dessert is what got send up. When the old man was checking it for a hair in the middle of the movie it's because they thought that was the reason nobody ate it. Missing the message of the dessert completely, standing in for how the wealthy of our society will never be able to understand the poor and why they do things.

202 is Month 4 btw, you got that wrong. Month 1 was level 48, Month 2 was 171, where Trimagasi tied him up, Month 3 was level 33 with Imoguiri, Month 4 was level 202 with Imoguiri again, then it was Month 5, level 6 with Baharat. Considering Goreng said he only asked for a 6 month sentence, he was so close to escaping and telling the world.

This movie was exactly like parasite in a different manor. The trailers are made differently, but once you find the symbolism, you’ll understand everything.

I apologize in advanced for all the dongle comments you’re gonna get

Damn Chelsea went off 💜💜🙋🏽‍♀️

Love your analysis, as always. A few of my thoughts (some have already been made, but I was writing along with the podcast): - I don't think it's a building above the ground, but a bunker going underground. This would fit with the Spanish title “The Hole” as well as the reversed numbering system. - The reason for 333 levels I assume is because this adds up to 666 people in total (at least at the beginning of each month). I see you made that point later in the podcast. - The movie also makes a point about how you just get dealt a hand randomly. You are where you are ("born"), and it is very difficult to climb up, especially because the people above you don't want to help you. Going down, however, is easy. - I'm not convinced Miharu got in alone. Imoguiri was lied to about the number of levels, so why not about no children under 16. You kind of touched on this as well, though. - When they go down together, some of the people do accept the fact that they don't get (as much) food, so the civility does work on some of them. - I like the ending. Makes the movie haunt you even more. - The song during the end credits is great. Very creepy.

So I don't know if this is a problem with the subtitles or not, but what the wise man says is to offer dialogue first and if that fails then you use violence, not that violence shouldn't be used at all.

The girl at the end is imagined by Goering, he's already been dealing with hallucinations throughout the film and just wants to believe that miharu was looking for her child rather than being insane because she saved him (hence the reason the child is a girl despite being referred to as a boy earlier on goering doesnt remember the childs gender as told to him by trimigasi so his head fills in the blanks) the platform doesnt stay on floor 333 for the full time because there actually isnt anyone on it, lets be honest an 8 year old child wouldnt survive in 'the platform' its entire life. in reality goering sends the panacotta back up (thinking its the girl), it gets rejected by the out of touch 1% for having a hair on it in that now "out of sequence" shot from earlier in the film. there is no deeper meaning, things go on and everyone loses just like real life. The end

At the end wouldn’t she just get slammed into the ceiling from how fast the platform is moving

Matpat sent me to give James a message...stop stealing his dongle

Stop stealing Mat Pats dongel! Btw love your channel Keep up the great work

Theory . The daughter doesn’t exist , the panacotta from the beginning is the same from the end . When the main characters die they leave the food and accidentally get a hair on it and is sent up which makes the head chef mad .

James I’m such a big fan of you u help me get threw a lot thank you keep up all the good work

I‘m glad, that I am not the only one, who didn‘t understand the movie, but still liked it😂 I actually watched it exactly one day before the podcast was released....😂

My Netflix account automatically put English audio over the film and i said oh hell no, changed it to its original European Spanish and put those subs on. We doin this the right way

It's underground, it isn't the tallest building in the world you can notice as the numbers get bigger as deeper as you go. For example the Burj Khalifa is 2k feet tall, but the deepest underground building us 7k feet deep. Plus level 0 is a kitchen.

Hey MatPat told me to come here, but in reality i've been a fan for a while and love your work, very entertaining. Also make sure to keep your *dongel* safe

I’m mostly excited about the Disco Elysium recommendation. Cool game

James, being a subscriber for you and MatPat for a few years now, I will personally admit that I have no bias between the two of you. Both channels never exceed to amaze me and the content you are willing to produce for your fans never ceases to put a smile on my face. However, as painful as it is, there is one issue with you that I need to address. For the love of God, please stop stealing MatPat's dongle. You're starting to scare all of us now James. Please, do what's right and seek help for your dongle addiction. Together, we can get through this bud.

Yesssss so happy to hear your guys’ take on this! X

Spanish is gendered but the gender-neutral forms of words are usually masculine by default. So hija is specifically daughter, but hijo means either son or gender-nonspecific child. *also, eating something your body can’t use like paper or cotton is an unfortunate trick used by people who are starving to lessen the hunger pains by tricking your stomach into thinking it’s full. It won’t help to actually feed you but it makes the hunger hurt less. **YASS Passion through a horror lens, holy crap I cannot wait to hear you guys talk about that movie!!! Ignore the nay-sayers if there are any, PLEASE I got so excited when you first mentioned it and would love that episode to exist!

I wonder how the people on floor 0 would think if all the food came back because there were no prisoners alive

I think the purpose of the Wise Man is to understand that the connection between old and young. We as young people think older people are wise and know better than we do, and we should listen to them. The fact that his message really served no purpose, but the way they carry out the mission and then realized at the end what a better message would be, speaks to how a "wise" person's words are only a guide, and you have to know how to think for yourself. Older "wiser" people don't know everything and it is up to us to take their words and do something better with it. What use is the stuff that they do know if the world has change from when they were little? (ig: him not knowing about the child = the world changing). Just my thoughts.

Mat pat said to stop touching his dongle because he isn't comfortable with that

Justice for Ramses II

there's no incorrect way to interpret a film like this. an optimist will say that the girl is found alive and that it sparks change. a pessimist will say that the girl is a hallucination and that the message (of the panna cotta) was misinterpreted (the piece of hair). Or they could interpret it in a whole other way, and it would still be chill. To each their own.

I see Wise Man as a metaphor for how our "leaders" under capitalism often act to preserve the system.

ya know I followed this channel for James but i’m kinda here for Chelsea, you’re doing great sweetie 💅🏻

watched this movie tonight to be able to listen to the pod - so upsetting, but very good. i really appreciated it!

Came over from Film Theory! Gotta say, Freddy Krugerbears pizza is quite yummy with some dongles on top~ 🍕😂

HeY gUyy!!!!!!!!! I came FromM the Film Theorist chanel!!!! Matthew Patthew sent mee.... STOP STEALING HIS DONGEL!!!!!!!!!! OKAY?!?!?!!?!?!!

People are fine with the system they're put in as long as they have food and a place to sleep. That's why so many people are content with their rights slowly fading away in a lot of first world countries.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Panna cotta with the hair in it were the original end of the movie but the message didn't quite carry through. After all the craziness, ending the stage play with an outraged chef missing the point would be humorous and effective.

Here from Film Theory to shake my dongle around x]

I am getting hooked with your podcast! I watched the movie and I think the chef and cooks are important as they care very much to have a perfect meal but no one really get to enjoy it. Sending the girl has a strong message that people did not EAT the child but sent her out. I do not think the woman with the dog is neutral at all she is ignorant. Again good job guys I enjoyed your analysis and one solution I read if everyone ate what they said their favorite dish at the initial interview they will survive. Maybe!!

Hi, Film Theory sent me......... Have a nice dongle.

👏WHERE👏IS👏TRAIN👏TO👏BUSAN👏

We all know Lucy is the real owner of this channel!^^

Y’know, I am now watching this, but it is so cute how they look at each other and smile so cute

Matpat sent me to say don’t steal his dongel

I'd love for you guys to discuss "As above, so below" for the podcast. It's in my very top of favorite movies. When mentioning the Devine comedy by Dante, as above, so below has bases on Dantes Inferno. Great movie. I love it.

When looking at all the food on level zero, do you think that would be enough food for 666 people, even with perfect rationing? I would say no. This thought process leads to three theories. One, the administration just does not give a shit about the people in the hole. (I doubt this theory because look at how expensive all the food is, so they do give a shit) Two, the chiefs themselves don’t know how many people there are, so they don’t know how much food they really should make Three (the on the like most) that the administration in a way is ignorant. It like when the American government sends a 1000-dollar check and says that should last you the entire lockdown, Right? The administration says all this food should last 666 people, Right? I also think the theory is supported by the temp rises and falls when you steal food. The administration is somewhat aware that people will try and take too much food, so the put the threat of death countermeasures in place. They think it’s would only be 1 in 100 people who would do this, but its every on taking too much food. If they had known everyone would gorge far too much, they would have put in more death threat countermeasures, but they did not think about it because they're ignorant.

I've been subscribed for while but dongle

5:30 when you really think about it there are 2 people each floor and there are 333 floors so when you multiply it by 2 it's 666. I think its a really cool detail

Hey dude you looking foward to the new saw movie, spiral, with samuel l Jackson?

DONGEL!!!!

i would absolutely love to see this as the original stage performance it was going to be before it got adapted for film! it sounds like such an interesting challenge

Hey dongel, stop dongling by dongel, DONGEL.

25:00 I honestly don’t remember what it said, but it was probably “niño” based off of the fact that it got translated into boy and was “corrected” into child. While Spanish is a gendered language, often words that represent both genders gets stated as a male gender by default. “Niño” means both “boy” and “child”. Based on the fact that the child ended up being a girl, she was probably referring to “child” instead of “boy”. Based on the context of her character and the movie as a whole, who honestly knows?

Edit: Okay I'm going to edit this a bit after reading some comments and rewatching bits of the movie again. I keep standing by my words that I think the choice of "hijo" is an intentional choice to show two things: 1. That Trimagasi doesn't know a thing about Miharu and doesn't really care about it (he uses 'hijo' as a more neutral term, even if "niño" would be a better choice) 2. "Hijo" implies boy, it's the masculine form, so Goren assumes Trimagasi talks about a boy and gets surprised by finding a girl "Hijo" is an intentional choice by the script to condition us to think that it's a boy, like Goren, but in reality is just Trimagasi showing that he doesn't care. Thats why he ends up killed by Miharu, because he doesn't care, not like the main character

Loved the movie but i wished they could stick the landing of the ending better. Yeah i dont mind the open ended ending where you have no idea what it’ll lead, thats not my problem. My problem was the ending was just underwhelming and weak. It’s heavy handedness of the message didnt help either. Other than that it was enjoyable! Recommend many people to watch it. For social commentary on class i recommend Snowpiercer and Parasite more!

Hey James Matt patt asks if you have a spare dongle lying around

imiguri is mostly correct. There's really nothing wrong with voluntary charity and encouraging it as a cultural practice would definitely have a good effect. El Hoyo isn't set up that way though. Which is both commentary on people and how they exist in the system and kind of a limitation of the allegory since the platform seems designed to make people pricks, where that isn't really the case irl.

This is the first time in watching their podcast and I wanna know if Chelsea always talks this much? I love listening it her talk she's so smart and analytical