The Possible Ogre REWORK In Update 6.0 - Total War Warhammer 3 

Little late today but wanted to throw some ideas to CA regarding the Ogres if the case that the recent leak does mean we're getting Ogre content in 6.0 :)

Yes, we are in need of an ogrehaul!

The biggest and most annoying thing for me is definitely the lack of tier 5 settlements AND the fact that camps are stationary.

I'd like it if gnoblars either didn't have meat upkeep or had the upkeep reduced. They could alternatively add a tech that makes gnoblars free of meat upkeep which could be combined with getting meat for disbanding them.

Allowing normal cities able to build advanced military buildings, even the most basic one would allow Ogres just so many options since it gives them Maneaters, Leadbelchers/gnoblar catapult/mourn cavalry. Basic things but it'll give the AI the boost they need to actually survive.

Big names need improved big time. Let us have multiple at a time and just change all the awful ones. The ones vs specific races and weak ones like "control +1 local province" are just not useful. For the ones vs specific races you can do how they do on some already do is give a generic buff but then double it vs that race. Camps do need to move everyone can agree on that.

One thing I will add, get rid of aversion for Ogres outside a few select races, namely elves. Everyone hires Ogre mercenaries, even Dwarfs and Charfs, so almost every race would have no particular reason to have aversion to Ogres. But in exchange, Ogre trespassing and raiding should be significantly more heavily punished, as no matter where Ogres go, cows, sheep, goats, and the occasional farmer, go missing, even if the Ogres are just passing through and not actively raiding.

My 2 cents for rework (just a lot of stuff off my mind, some better, some worse - if you Nathan find this stuff interesting drop CA a line, thanks :D): OVERTYRANNY: Unique mechanic for Greasus Goldtooth. Defeating a fellow Ogre faction leader allows forced vassalization - same mechanic as for Greenskins and Norsca. GNOBLAR ECONOMY: Gnoblars have vastly reduced upkeep. Gnoblars are slowly produced by specific buildings (Nurgle style, without the cycling). Excess Gnoblars in supply are automatically converted to meat. Gnoblars recruited to army can be eaten in a pinch to increase army's meat reserves. CAMP REWORK: Camps have vastly reduced upkeep for units contained therein to make AI camps actually dangerous. Reduced penalties for other factions for presence of camps: camps reduce growth of other factions but slightly increase public order as Ogres eat bandits etc. Camps can become mobile or settle down, but never both during the same turn. Camps do not generate wealth while on the move. MEAT REWORK: An army with excess meat expends it quicker than usual (Ogres do not hold back), but gain significant bonuses to upkeep reductions, health and weapon strength while doing so. Expenditure of excess meat can be decreased with lord skills and/or technology. If an army ever runs out of meat completely, it will immediately rebel and start fighting against you. Meat now becomes a type of "corruption", where the supplies slowly replenish (and can be slowly made to replenish with some unique buildings). Ogres must move their armies to their settlements, or keep on playing a nomadic lifestyle to top up their meat reserves, or keep on eating their enemies and/or Gnoblars. BOUNTY REWORK: Bounties can now be pursued by a new type of Ogre MERCENARY armies. Mercenaries have less upkeep, require no meat, and can recruit some units from other races. They also move much faster on the map and incur no trespassing penalties. They also can ONLY attack bounty targets, not your regular enemies. Bounty rewards are significantly increased, including a guaranteed 15-turn non-aggression pact with the faction whose contract you fulfill (allowing Ogres to truly play a neutral role).

Probably an unpopular opinion but I think the camps for Ogres should just be like the horde faction and move with them. That's the point of Camps is the mobility. But it should be setup like the Vampire Coast where they get special Lords to recruit that are more unique but not full fledged Legendary Lords and these unique lords have the horde/camp mechanic tied to them. Contracts should give good, more unique rewards, more money and equipment for rewards. It's also complete nonsense that Ogre settlements on the map are still tiny/borderline garbage settlements, they should be 8-10 building Tier V settlements like fortresses and have unique landmarks for the Ogres. For the love of warhammer, make meat less of a slog of a mechanic. Having meat be unique for specific Army is annoying but makes sense, just make it easier to have a stockpile and let the stock pile go higher. These are all improvements purely to make the Ogres more fun, but honestly as long as CA takes an approach for the Ogres like they did in Thrones of Decay, I'm sure it'll be great

There’s also the fact that Butchers and Slaughtermasters are currently missing Death and Heavens casters, which might be added in a patch down the line.

For an ogre rework, here is what I would suggest. - Make gnoblars not consume meat till a certain number has been reached per army and have a skill to increase the limit for the lord, maybe part of the province control skill, (eg, you can recruit 3 units of gnoblars before they begin consuming food or 9 with skills). - Make camps movable, but at a very heavy cost, or allow them to be rebuilt after being torn down. - Make the contract work similar to Malakai’s adventure; you get a selection of contracts and rewards. you select a lord to do a contract. There is a slider to select a time and an option for assistance from the employer, both of these will affect the reward. Once agreed to the selected army MUST fight a ‘quest’ battle when the time happens. E.g., you choose a lord to fight Cathay in 5 turns, and after 5 turns, they’re immediately teleported to the battle. - Provincial capitals should be fully buildable to their 5 but minor settlements should be greatly limited to tier 1 with a single building, like the woodelves outside of forests. - Skrag should be given groms mechanic, but meat focuses instead of offerings to the maw. - Greasus should be given a trade mechanic similar to Cathey and Chorfs, something like passing merchants hiring ogres to escort them. The caravans should start with a hero and units from another faction.

I really hope the camps gain more mobility so they act as actual camps rather than placeable settlements. Especially since I feel the whole camp system would work very well for the Dogs of War, being able to have moving mercenary camps that allow the player and AI to recruit some of the DoW Mercenary Units.

To not get ignored, contracts need to at least come with 'ignore trespassing penalties' with the issuing faction for at least long enough to do the job and go home. Rewards should probably include things like reduced upkeep so you get a serious economic benefit from them on top of the little bump of cash. I think the meat system could do with some additional complexity, too- it's either a BIG DEAL when you're in the double digits and racing for a big fight or a camp, or it's basically negligible when you're over 200 or so. I LIKE the pre-battle-feast and Offering options, it just feels like the system could do with some expansion to cover more situations. Making camps mobile is just an absolute no-brainer, and being able to choose whether they are 'foraging' or not seems like a necessary quality of life thing- realistically, ogres are always foraging and it's fear of pissing them off that gets their 'hosts' to look the other way... but getting the TW AI to act like that is probably beyond the scope of even an overhaul, so just having the option to not piss off people you don't want to go to war with seems logical. I've seen comments regarding a 'migration' mechanic to let the ogres fast travel, and I think the desire for that really ties into how self-defeating the contracts tend to be- they're often far away, on the far side of the issuing faction's territory, and the cost or time required to get military access first means the contracts end up moot more often than not anyway. The number of times I've conquered Cathay as Greasus not out of any particular desire, but just because I wanted the shiny contract reward and they picked a fight with me before I was done is... considerable, given that I play a bunch of other factions besides the big lads.

Wishing everyday for a vampire count rework with a Strigoi legendary lord and a court of flesh mechanic. Would fit well in a orgre themed dlc since they are all about meat. The Meat and the Grinder lol

Orgres are my favorite and most played faction for wh3. I do alot of coop with my friends, and the one thing i want most with orgres is to have a mercenary for hire system in which other factions can hire you to assist in their battles. So effectively you can embed lets say 4 orgre units in an army and control them. This way you can do many battles with orgres in a simple and straightforward way which will make it very fun in multiplayer coop campaigns.

Norsca crying on the cornes with Leon Leoncoeur trying to comfort it (please, Bretonnia rework too, soon)

If you're going to do Skrag specific changes, just take a page out of Grom the Paunch's campaign and give him the cooking pot but let it need you to fight different factions and spend meat to use it.

One thing that I want for Ogre, the ability to fast travel the world. No need to make them instantly teleport but think of them similar to Sea Lane. You can order any army in your control and choose the place where you want them to be. Then they disappear for a few turns before appear at the location you pick. Ogre are know to travel around the world or migrate into new land. So this could be help making them more fun, esepcailly for Greasus. Mercenary contact could be rework , and I mean huge rework. Base on Skaven Shadowy Deal of Eshin. But instead of 4 clans, now you deal with Human , Elf, Dwarf and Chaos. And base on which side you siding with, you will unlock different reward.

The Ogres were the main reason I was initially excited for TWWH3. I would love to see them polished up.

Camps should be able to move, even if little, and contracs should be events you can manually trigger that allow you to spawn a mercenary army, being able to chose between a few premade templates, maneater focused, cavalry focused, etc. that have no tresspassing penalties and that can also set up camps, that don't raid, and eventz like the ones from the wood elves would appear arround that area, granting you money if you complete them. I think that would achieve the feeling of having mercenary armies all over the world, working for whoever pays more.

I would love Gnoblars being disbanded for either money or meat. I always rename my gnoblars to "Emergency meat" so I am halfway there

I want CA to add hammer throw orgres, they are the perfect fit for it and it will give orgres a unique range unit like no other faction. Whos with me?

@theGreatbookofGrudges Ogre mechanic similar to Grom's cook pot. the opening cinematic for the ogre kingdoms trailer is literally a giant cookpot full of random toes and such.

Greasus is known as "the tribestealer" . CA could give him a mechanic that allows recruitment of special ogre units. For example the Ironskin tribe could be ogres with more armor. Something like the elector count units from the empire.

The introduction to ogres in this game was recruitment . A mechanic based on this would be fun..what ever faction involved in recruiting they have their uniforms an weapons..that be so fricken cool..i seen mods like this

if we're getting more ogres, options for more Legendary Lords (as they relay should have 4 by the time the game ends. - Ghark Ironskin - He and his tribe (the Ironskins) have heavy ties to the Chaos dwarfs who sell them lots of guns. his army famously has lots of Leadbelchers. so his faction could give lots of buffs to the Leadbelchers, Ironblasters, and Pistol Units. Plus he rides a mechanical Rhinox which would be cool. His tribe is canonically up the north of the mountains of mourn. This then could slow down and be a roadblock to Grimgor and Kholec Suneater who otherwise just swarm down the mountains. Plus with their close ties to the Chorfs they will have a base positive relations with them meaning that they won't be as ganged up on all sides. - Ghuth Spawnchomper - he and his tribe famously feast on Chaos mutated flesh and even have mutated ogres in their ranks. If Chaos Ogres ever get added to the warriors of chaos roster. then they (and the plague ogres) should be available to this faction. and they should be immune to attrition in chaos corrupted lands. and have bonuses when attacking daemons and warriors of Chaos. - Blaut Feastmaster - he has ties to Halflings so if they get added in this could be a nice hybrid faction with Hal fling units available in there too. - Shrewed Flug - he has ties with Clan Moulder. He famously has a menagerie and keeps Rat Ogres. so his faction could have access lots of big beasts and monsters, but they be limited to like 1 of each for the whole faction. HEROS - Brag the Gutsman - A hero that specialities in killing heroes (yes ogres, but all others should be included in that too) - Jhared the Red - the first hunter (yes he's long dead at this point but that's never stop CA before), so a really big buff to the beasts in an army especially Sabre Tusks

About Greasus. Maybe he could get a mechanic similar to Norsca or Wurrzag, like killing the leader of faction that is ogres mean confederating with them.

they should do an expansion on all the untouched DLC characters for a DLC. So like a new Coast, Tomb Kings, Ogre, and whatever else is untouched

Contracts should only put you at war with the target faction for the duration of the contract. Or to get the option after sais turns to either peace out or continue the war. Some contracts you would never take as it will stuck you in an endless war, also not thematic with mercenaries.

One thing i would like to see an update for Skrag the slaughter is some better traits for Gorgers as well some unique land mark next to the maw that he can build since is the maws Prophet..

For me the ogres really need 3 key changes, one of which I didn't see mentioned. 1. Moveable camps, this would enable them to truly feel like a moving mercenary band faction and allow for much smoother expansion. 2. Improved contracts. I wish these were powerful enough you could actually direct a campaign around them to have, again, that mercenary band experience. 3. Remove the exclusivity of big names, just allow characters to use all of the big names they have unlocked at once.

Another thing that needs to go are the massive diplomacy penalties Ogre factions have with other factions. Can't really make the mercenary system work if every faction you meet immediately declares war on you.

Ogre rework: >Changing their settlements. To this day you can't build the tier 4 anti-skaven building (I do am for adding tier 4 and 5 settlements to the more famous places for Ogre controlled provinces ala WoC Dark Fortresses). >Add in more lord and hero types, as well as their missing units...as well as more unit types like Blood Vultures. >Make Ogre Camps mobile and give the Camp Tyrant a unique skill-tree that focuses on improving his camp in every way. >The Gnoblar into meat disband system would be great. >Expand their tech-tree. >Rework Big Names. Once you unlock them, they stay unlocked. No choosing which name works. Thus making the characters that have access to Big Names more and more powerful (also make the Big Names a tad more buffed up). >Add mounts to Ogre characters that have none and where it would make sense. Tyrants and Bruisers are a no-brainer, Slaughtermasters and Butchers could do it too, Firebellies...honestly dunno. But the Hunter being limited to only the Stonehorn is kinda limiting. TOW did add mounts to all Ogre generic characters (thus giving us stuff like Tyrants on Stonehorns...maybe even Thundertusks), so that could be a great thing. GW and CA should slowly start implementing TOW stuff into game 3. That's all I have. In case of the contracts, it would be too much of a wall of text.

I hope their food becomes a replacement for global growth resource, meaning you need food up upgrade settlements

Contracts should be similar to Bannerlord 2s mercenary system with some adjustments. For example, you pledge yourself to a faction for example. You're automatically at war with all factions that they're at war with. You get paid (xp, growth, items or gold) when you defeat their foes. Additional quests like the current contract system from only the faction you're currently allied with can pop up at certain intervals, giving more of X. You could also have a system where when you take over a settlement, you can gift it to your ally for even bigger bonuses. And finally, you could get Events where the enemy of your current ally offers you to switch sides for certain payouts.

In the mountains of the moor, you should have your normal cities, and other Ogre cities should be scattered all over the map, always located in mountains similar to how Chaos Warriors have it. However, the rest of the cities should be your main food source, so that you can raid them all the time, or build a city there and start getting food from the first building (the main slaughterhouse). You should be able to build up to three more buildings: Another slaughterhouse with -growth and +food. Growth building to maintain growth, possibly at the cost of gold. Defense building because these cities have very poor defenses. All of these buildings should be buildable multiple times, so if you like, you can have one main slaughterhouse (the main building) and three defense buildings to create a strong fortress. The camps should be mobile but with limited movement -75% compared to a normal army. You should be able to recruit and buff armies from them. They should have a stance that they lose buffs and recruitment but only suffer -20 movement. It would take one turn to pack up and one turn to build everything down.

Hi @TheGreatBookofGrudges, thank you so much for your content over the years I remember watching your channel all the way back in warhammer 1. I am a modder and I wanted to ask you for help. long story short, the most recent update broke something called "skill tiers" and now when skills hit a cap of 48 in each row in character's tree skills beyond this arbitrary number of 48 do not show up in the UI. The problem is I was making a mod called johnny's expanded magic that would allow characters like morathi, teclis, alarielle, ariel, mazdamundi, slann, archmages and others be able to pick spells from lores they had access to on tabletop essentially mirroring the tabletop as I understand it (a warhammer 2 mod that did something similar was sm0kin's mixed lores ). I was also making my own lore accurate spell implementations with unique graphics like arnzipal's dimensional door for dark magic, phoenix fire for high magic and beam of slaanesh for slaanesh magic. All of these spells were made by me to be select-able through modified skill trees. There were alot of skill buttons in my mod to facilitate the selection of many different combinations of spells by the player where lore accurate and new spells for different lores of magic. Now because of the skill tiers cap my mod is broken and months of work I put in is essentially ruined. I am not the only modder with this issue and many mods that affect skills will be impacted. we love being a part of this community and it makes me sad that I will never get to share my work now because of this most recent update. I dont really know where else to go and I was hoping that given your close relationship with the devs, that you could notify them that this is happening. Otherwise, it is such a small but impactful change that I dont think CA will be aware without notifying them. We think that this change was part of a ui bug fix but I am unsure which aspect of the update is responsible. Regardless of the outcome, thank you for all your videos over the years.

I agree with all of this, Especially the lack of tier 5 settlements and make the camps movable like the black arks. I like the idea of being able to eat the gnoblars, its cool, useful, and very thematic. With the overtyrant thing, you could just port in the Green skin ability to beat the faction leader and vasalise the factions, even if it's just for Greasus. It's been a while since I played Skrag, but does he have a summon Gorgers mechanic, something like the dwellers below for skaven? I can't remember, but if he doesn't he should.

Festus dont have any infection buildings he suffers now

One recommendation that I can give (give it to CA, it's free) make the camp's mobile while taking 1 turn to put down or up. Make almost mandatory to put those camp's outside of your territory by giving your province and camp strong debuffs to control and grow of you try. And when a camp is put in a province, give you a dilemma on how to deal with the province owners. Maybe you can make a deal to stay a set amount of turns, or being aggressive for more grow in exchange for a negative relationship. And the owner of the province can get the mercenaries ogers for recruitment and even as garrisons and meaby some cash. But the camp need to move out after like 15 turns because the province start to get less grow and control because of how damaging the ogers are

For a contract rework here is what I would do. Naturally tweaking to make it better. You can start a Contract at any time but it requires an active Lord you can choose from that you have active. (Kind of like Eshin). Once the contract is chosen that Lord and their army is sent to run toward the location automatically with Tresspassing Immunity. Once they arrive you fight the battle if it is a battle option listed on the contract. (Settlement Capture, Settlement Defense, or Standard Battle). Alternatively you hand over specified units that were contracted by the faction which will be taken out of your Lord's army and given to the faction you delivered to. The lord will run back with tresspassing immunity to your nearest settlement and become available once again. I think it is important for the contracts to be more physical and not simply teleport as it would give the feeling of actually lending your services rather than a quest battle. It takes time to travel and time to travel back home. For the Camps, I do not thunk they should move and be usable. You have to pick one. They set up or set down. While Set down they function like a normal camp, while set up they function like a normal Lord. So upkeep reduction in Camp Mode, no reduction in Mobile mode. These types of lords can be unique Camp Lords with their own skill lines that give camp growth, increase contract rewards, reduce camp building cost, initial defensive supplies, etc. The limit can stay the same with the current system we have now. This should hopefully also allow for heroes to embed into the camp which would be great for allowing magic in your camps defense. This choice between movement and camp mode I feel would fit better for camps as they are large and temporary settlements but they dont operate on the move. See Age of Empires 4 Mongolia for why I think this system would be beneficial for Ogres. Oh and adjust the 1 camp per province so it can be closer to settlements. While in theory you can get all 247 or something camps, in practice there are certain regions where you cannot fit 2 camps in 2 provinces while avoiding the settlement adjacency restriction. The gifts to the Maw are fine as is but each LL would benefit from different types. Granted this isnt based on lore but I feel if Greasus would offer to the maw it would be for greed rather than power. Increase income from buildings, trade, sacking/looting, etc. While Skrag would get a Grom/ostankya material from certain enemies to give to the maw. So it would be like the refese of Ostankya where she has unlimited use ingredients for limited use trinkets, Skrah would have limited use ingredients for faction wide boons. Idk if people would be open to Grom Cauldron 3.0 but, cmon. It is Skrag. Then for whatever the third (or fourth) LL they would have different maw gifts to fit their fantasy. Naturally more units. I would also like tweaks to their building tiers. Maneaters (Greatweapons/Pistols) being a T5 building is insane to me they are tier 4 or 3. While it isnt cannon, I would love for Firebelly Initiates to be a unit. 16 mini firebellies with no magic. Great fire resist, flaming attacks, would be awesome. They arent needed but Firebellies are literally my favorite unit/hero in all of Warhammer so plzplzplz. Regarding buildings. Your mention of Mountains of Mourn getting Dark Citadel style full settlements makes a lot of sense. Just keep the number limited to maybe 3 in total. I am sure there is more I can think of. Ogres are my favorite faction. I still have fun with them but maybe with proper changes everyone can love them as much as I do!

I think a good rework of the contract system would be something similar to the changeling scenarios: each region has 2 or more factions at war and you can fulfill missions for either of them for different rewards, being able to swap sides and getting up to a final battle for each war scenario.

Ogres are one of my favourite factions I feel the changes discussed in the video would help knock them up a notch. As my previous comments mention I think the attrition for Gnoblars would suit and the moving/packable camps would be cool. As you mentioned the contracts need something to make them more appealing. I've heard before of having something similar to Alith Anar target mechanic or even as you said just adding a lot more money and incentives. Maybe even having a form of immunity so if you attack someone as part of a contract it can be done without declaring war as your doing it for someone else so they get the diplomatic penalty. I also think maybe ogre camps depending on level could provide more merc options instead of just bulls. Obviously not all ogre units should be available as it could make the ogres feel redundant but maybe a few more options similar to what you could get from the camps when they tested it in TWW2 like man eaters mournfangs cav and the ogre bull varieties and maybe leave it at that so that the ogres still have a bunch of units unique to them. You would also have to make it so they have really high upkeep and maybe make it like the WoC recruitment where they build up overtime and have a cap e.g. 3/3 Mournfangs where by once you empty the pool they need to build back up again. These are just a few of my thoughts off the top of my head

6:55 "Paying to exist" is just the concept of a protection racket.

exquisite ideas, mr Grudges. hope CA takes notes. my contribution idea is ogre lord should be able to use multiple great names

Ogres really could use a touch up. The Gnoblars giving food when disbanded sounds really good. They also should not cost food as well, as they are the food. It'll give another food source for players to utilize. Louen and Wilfrik comforting one another as they continue to be left behind with no hope for DLCs or reworks.

To have the ideas neatly in one place, i'll copy my comment from the video from yesterday over here: Really hope to see a maneater rework alongside golgfag. A friend and i discussed how cool it would be if maneaters had a mechanic mixing the ice court and moulders lab, where you would accept contracts from factions and have maneaters working for them, and after a while and choosing some options(like ice court) you would get a maneater variant in your recruitment pool which is fitting to the faction it visited and has some appropriate perks similar to how moulder augments work(e.g. a maneater from the chorfs might have additional armour, an empire maneater better ranged capabilites, ork maneater less armour but bigger melee dmg etc.) maybe even copying some faction specific abilities like martial prowess or primal fury edit: one could possibly even combine/replace the old contract system with this

One thing I'd really ask for is to change the meat system to get rid of attrition. attrition to encourage a certain fighting style is not satisfying in the least, and I abandoned early attempts at playing as the Ogres because the meat system didn't signpost the importance of camps for it. I'd argue it should be similar to Waaghs, where you get bonuses for fighting in meat-accruing ways and could perhaps even use meat to replenish or spawn more units rather than lose your existing army because you wandered too far from camp. Just a thought, as there's a tension between traveling across the map to fulfill a specific contract and staying close to home to avoid attrition damage, especially in the vortex campaign where time is against you.

Greasus getting 1% speed %1 mass & acceleration for each vassal. Capped at like 15% would be great. He’d actually be usable on the field

I think the camps should be attached to lords like hordes, then those camp hordes will be your major settlements and any land you take can stay as minor tier 3 settlements with the exception of loreful ogre capitals as mentioned in this video. This system works for Beastmen and I think correlates well with ogres. The contracts system could definitely do with a revamp, but I don't have a solution to make it any more interesting. I also think it would be more interesting playing as any faction if you could use something similar to the allegiance system to hire ogre armies or recruit some troops from any ogre faction without necessarily being allies with them. That would give them more of a mercenary feel.

My suggestion instead of a WAAAGH re-use for Skrag would be to give all Ogres a version of Oxyotl's lizard X-Com called "Visions of the Maw", except Skrag gets much stronger bonuses or better rewards or more of them at a time than other Ogre factions.

So, 6.0 is about Ogres, Vampires and Slaanesh? I think, that the main Ogre`s mechanics should be depending of Tribe. Goldtooth - "Overtyrant" mechanic wit the high deplomacy to other tribes and ability to use their unique troops. Crossed Clubs - "Mercs" mechanic. Ogres could sell their troops to all fractions for extra money, with a chance of them to be returned as different Maneaters. Thunderguts - "Siege mechanic" with demanding resources from sieged fraction for giving their sieged settlement back. Sons of the Mountain - "Trading with Caravans" mechanic + white ogres and yeti. Feastmaster Tribe - "Advanced cooking" + halflings. Blood Guzzler Tribe - "East Valley caravan trading" + Spiders. Ironskin Tribe - "Zharr Nagrund armory and slave trading" + K`daai Iron Rhinoxen. Lazarghs Tribe - "Deeper Great Maw magic mechanic" + Ogre mutants. Angry Fist Tribe - "Fire Mouth mechanics" + Firebellies. Tribe of Shrewd Fulg - "Scaven mutations mechanic" + Rat ogres. Loose Tooth Tribe - "Davi Zharr weaponry" mechanic + Leadbelchers with Dwarven Cannons Fleshgreeders Tribe - "Mounds" mechanic + Bragg the Gutsman

I rly like camps! I think you should be able to move them but not similar to a black ark! I think they should make it so you can pack up your camp, the higher tier settlement the longer it takes to pack it up! Then you can select where to place it and it will start moving there like a caravan! Once its there you keep the buildings u had! This is my biggest wish! I see alot of people that just want to move the camps all the time and i think that takes away from decesion making of how you place the camps!

Norsca is out here singing "what about me" by Shannon Noll

Ancillaries as contract rewards would work great. Or some tokens that you can exchange for thematic buffs/units

maybe have camps be able to build building that aren’t actually buildings (more decrees and thing like making sure there are patrols) or easy to move(for example the mongols had tents on carts) and move with reduced movement or build additional buildings from stone and hardwood, including walls and the tier 5 main building, to the penalty of immobility

In terms of contracts, I would like to see something similar to the "ally army request" system but for money. So basically, any faction with more than 50 relation with you (so not at war) you get an event every 15-30 turns allowing you to grant them control of a non-faction leader army for either a lump sum of money or on pay per turn basis fpr 10 turns. I also think that after contracts, you should get special maneater units similar Orks get after Wagghs to showcase that they are the elite mercenary ogers. Maybe tie this into / alternative to this, a "reputation bar" like new imperial authority, that goes up or down depending on your reliability and diplomacy where the higher it is the better the rewards of contracts (mercenary path) and the lower it is the greater the bonuses to monesters (savage path)

My big hope, which I don't know how likely/realistic this is, would be to have Ogres end up functioning like the migrating tribes in Total War Attila. A mix of settled and horde playstyle, but not a mix like the Vampire Coast's navy. Rather, I'd like to see them settle an area, eat all its resources, then convert their settlements to hordes and move on to the next area. Really give us that migrating, wandering, nomadic playstyle that would be so well in-line with their lore. (I suppose there could be a handful of special ogre homelands settlements like the Mountains of Mourn or Gristle Valley that never have their resources deplete so Ogres could live there permanently)

How about an ogre affix that gives units the meat upkeep with no meat upkeep on non-orgres. When you run out of meat, put attrition on the non ogre units with the intensity based on the ogre/non-ogre ratio in the stack. Run out of both meat and non ogres you get atrrition on the ogres. It'll stretch out the time you can spend away from your camps while giving a minor reason to get meatshields for your ogre units.You can still go mass ogre, but then you have to choose whether to hang around camp or go full aggro. As for capitals, maybe let them level to 5 with the restricted building slots, but they provide an increasing % meat gained in the province as they level. Leave the bonus general, so also covers self raiding for meat (don't remember if they can do that, but if they don't they should).

Man could you do a video on DLLS and FSR? How it possible they haven’t implemented it yet in their engine…

I think they could get away without major settlements if they properly reworked the camps. Giving them the option to move in some capacity seems like a must. If they could work in a system where the income goes up for a few turns then starts going down to indicate they have already stripped the area of food/loot I think it could be really cool and seemingly lore friendly.

*_I'm_** hoping for a Legendary Lord or two with a "cool" factor,* unlike Greasus who reminds me of a Morbidly-obese American driving around on a Walmart scooter (so cringe I can't bring myself to play him). I'd especially appreciate a "rework" of Greasus so that he's carried around by a small horde of Gnoblar's, to make him more in line with GamesWorkshop's vision.

I also hope they give Goldtooth back his throne mounted atop gold throwing gnoblars. It'd be a big upgrade over the wheelbarrow

I always thought originally the plan was if you run out of food the Gnoblars would take attrition 1st (as if they were getting eaten) then when all Gnoblars are gone ogres take attrition. But I can't remember if it was ever implemented like that

"Ogres aren't stationary. They move around." Then shouldn't every 'settlement' in the Mountains of Mourn either be Dawi ruins or a 'camp' that just stopped moving even though the Ogres come and go? And then by that logic shouldn't every 'settlement' in MoM be some 10 slot behemoth? I'd be down to have Ogres function mostly like hordes, do away with half the settlements in the mountains, and then make it so that Ogres can only 'settle' in region capitals. Similar to how Belakor works, actually. Though, I think we can all agree the AI would have a fit with that.

Regarding the Camps, I think I would prefer a kind of Beastman system where the armies are hordes and keep all their important buildings with them in their camps, while the settlements will be like Herdstones... (perhaps) limited to where you can put them (capitals only?), prevents the settlement of surrounding towns (the ogres have eaten it all). On top of that, you could have a kind of extortion system, like whenever a caravan enters the area near a camp, you automatically have a go at forcing some money out of them or opt to attack them without needing to declare war on the owner... sort of like the ogre player gets to be on the other side of the caravan events from the Chorfs and Cathay. I am not a huge fan of the vassal system tbh because they just sort of feel detached from whatever you are doing, not to mention these vassals often dont feel like you can rely on them for support... but then again the WoC armies rarely feel like they need support anyway.

I know it probably wouldn't fit thematically with Golgfag, but I'd love to see Norsca get an update and rework. Only having 1 generic lord option an a bunk system for burning things down kinda sucks.

I love the convert Noblars to food thing, but also think IF you do convert them to food than other Noblar units in your army should take a leadership penalty because they're terrified they're next.

Contracts should be issued by a group of factions like Cathay, the Chaos Dwarfs or the Empire. It should give you a time limited alliance with bonus loot for every defeated enemy army of the contracting faction

This is quite the aside, but I REALLY HOPE they give the naval-based characters the same kind of shipbuilding mechanic they gave to the Vampire Coast armies. Wulfrik, Lokhir, and maybe even lords like Sealord Aislinn and (imagine) Gutrot Spume. Maybe even one of the Cathayan Dragons, whichever one is leading the cathayan navies. I think this is the sort of thing that can give specific lords just a bit of a difference within a race like you've mentioned.

If they wanted to go bonkers with a contract rework, they could steal some of the caravan systems where you have armies that don't live on the map normally, you pick a lord with traits and a starting army, and factions offer you potential jobs, that give cash and potentially units Could be that your mercenary armies have upkeep, but dramatically reduced, and you recruit any unit from your available pool, letting you tailor your merc armies Missions from factions could be your army following around an AI army "guarding" it as an attached army like a waagh, you helping sack a settlement, or your merc's being sent to outright fight another army, either a regular one or a spawned one/rebels

I wished they would make gnoblars 1.) not take meat in upkeep, 2.) Make a tech to do that or 3.) make it where gnoblars are 1 meat, ogre troops are two and hero’s/lords three and balance the meat. It doesn’t make sense my weedy gnoblars is allowed to have good meat and not have to scavenge the scraps. I also wished we could just steal the bandits mechanic from Three Kingdoms for mercenaries as that would be a much better system in general. Lastly just some extra uses for meat and various stages of hunger based effects if they rebalance it and the amounts. Because with camps moving it could easily be trivialized also.

The AI also needs to be able to recruit units in camps, Arks got the update, camps need it as well. It would make the AI be able to actually build some camps up far enough so that they could recruit end game units.

Camps should be able to move some way or another I think. The way I envision camps is as moving bases for the Ogres as they move to new territory to plunder and eat meat. If they can't move it's kind of weird to me. And it would kind of make sense because the ogre after they's gathered all the meat and plunder from somewhere should pack up and move somewhere closer to the meat and plunder. Also I agree that the contract system is underwhelming. They should make it more significant and more in-depth. When a core feature of a race is ignored most of the time it's not a good sign.

I honestly would have hoped for some greater use of the great maw, now it's literally just a regular map background, while in lore ogres treat it as a deity. I think something similar to waagh should be a good idea, but maybe instead of conquering a specific area or faction, you should use making various sacrifices to the maw. For example, you could feed it with prisoners from battles and the more the maw was fed, the greater the bonuses it would give or it would enable the recruitment of some blessed units or improvements to regular units. At least they could use something like this just for the scrag faction.

One thing I would add would be stacking Great Names. Give them a grand title by the end of your campaign showing your own lore as you conquered

Norsca orges and khorne need the same update we just had with ToD. Norsca has been frozen in ice since release I think

Ogres need a couple more LLs, Greasus needs his rolling mat of Gnoblars, add in the remaining units, and the camps should be moveable. I agree that the "major" settlements in the Mountains of Mourn need to be proper capitals, but I think you shouldn't be able to build up just anywhere outside LL starting locations and the Mountains of Mourn; that's what the camps are for. Ogres are one of my favourite factions to play, alongside Skaven and Chawi, but it sucks there's only two LLs and I don't like Skrag.

Good vid and ideas - esp eating Gnoblars

I think most factions should have "revive faction" option when taking settlements - at least with factions of similar aligment.

Even half developed compared to other races, ogres are still my fave. They deserve more of everything.

Would be very cool if the Ogres rework came along with the Dogs of War as Ogres are big time mercenaries

I hope the Grudge system for units, is used for Dogs of War :)

Make camps able to be moved and the race overall will feel 10 times better, this needs to happen!

I have almost 800 hours in ogres exclusively. Really hoping Ghark is a flc LL or The Main LL. Ghark deserves it more than Golg. Ghark not showing up with chaos dwarfs was criminal. Bruiser is badly needed as well. Contracts are still just comically bad. Contracts need to be able to be completed without either less or no relation penalty to the victim. Why would o start a war with grimgor for 1500 gold and some meat. Ogres should have an option after securing a province to instantly destroy all settlements in the province and preventing them from being resettled for x amount of turns to show that ogres eat and trample the environment. You would get gold and meat from this. I want ogres to get what they deserve. Thunder tusk, Ghark, Bruiser, Cultural ogres such as imperial, brettonian, cathayan. Bragg the guts man would be the perfect legendary hero. He only stays for x amount of turns to reflect his nature of being mistrusted by his own kind but being very powerful. The other ogre that ate a necromancer and now commands the undead would be cool but I don’t remember his name lol

The ogres also need an overhaul to their mercenary unit mechincs. There should be dilemmas for the orge camp armies that let you lone out your units and earn their upkeep in gold while they are on lone. They come back after 10 or so turns with exp. Also the army they are in gives you map vision and obviously if the army gets wiped you lose the units.

I think we need an ogre with shields, they can put couple of their gut shields to make a tower shield, and make more Ironbrand. let the gobblors ride spiders

@TheGreatBookofGrudges Please see my idea for Ogre contracts below: I think it would be cool if Ogre Contracts functioned similarly to how the Attila Total War campaign "The Last Roman" worked. In that campaign, as Belisarius if you took a city you could either turn it over to the Eastern Roman Empire or keep it for yourself. If you turned it over, you then had an allied settlement you didn't have to maintain right next to you. If you kept it, this resulted in your faction no longer being an agent of the ERE and triggering a war between you and the ERE. Here's how that would look for Ogres in TWW3: Say Zhatan the Black gives Greasus a contract to take a settlement in Cathay. If you attack that city and take it, you are then presented with two option: (1) Give the city to Zhatan and take your reward, OR (2) Keep the city for yourself. If you give the city to Zhatan, you then are automatically issued another contract along the same lines. "Take this other Cathayan city and get this next reward." This would continue until either (a) Cathay was destroyed (b) you refused a subsequent contract (which would give no penalties to you) or (c) you break the contract and keep a city. If you keep the city for yourself, you are given a massive diplomatic penalty with Zhatan and/or you are automatically at war with him. I think this would make Ogre contracts a really cool and unique mechanic, AND at the same time it would recycle a mechanic CA has already used in the past, so hopefully it wouldn't require building it from the ground up.

Despite like 700 hours I've never even played the ogres

Maybe IT will be flc, Golgfang, Boris Todbringer and the Red Duke?

I really want each playable faction to have their own unique mechanics. I really never have any reason to play Skrag, other than if I wanna play on another part of the map.

Post battle replenishment is incredibly OP already just keep it seperate. Make me chose between the meat and the replenishment otherwise it becomes even less of a choice. Factions that have access to post battle replenishment vs any factions vs factions that only get it against their own race or dont get it at all is a difference of night and day and SEVERLY impacts how campaigns play and difficulty.

Very good points, nothing to add. I hope CA will follow these "tips" :)

Just an idea: you can choose a faction to help at the start and then act as their mercenaries. You can act ore independent but it has consequences. The alternative would be an opportunistic war-band roaming and plundering and doing jobs on the side. Or a combination of both. Maybe that’s too much to implement, but it would be fun.

I would love for them to re do Greasus's mount and also size him up and allow him to fight on foot, I don't think in lore he fought from the palanquin but it deserves to be in the game, so give a option to toggle with pros and cons

I really like the idea to convert Gnoblars into meat, what does something I want to add, how about Gnoblars didn't count in the armies meet consumption like if you have an army of 20 units and 12 of them is Gnoblars the army's meat consumption is only be 8 this turn.

More Ogres would be cool, but I really do hope that Cathay isn't next in line for more stuff. Firstly Slaanesh and Khorne need attention to bring them in line with Nurgle post ToC (plus Tzeentch getting another flc Lord), bringing parity across the Chaos Gods. Plus I'd rather see resource put into overhauling factions like the VC, HE, DE and Lizardmen (plus Skrolk, he's nowhere near the level of Throt, Ikit and Snitch, leaving Pestilens clearly left out compared to the other Great Clans), bringing them in line with the excellent work recently done with Empire and Dwarfs (despite the AoR mechanic needing a tweak, it's still a massive improvement). Ultimately Cathay (while cool) is a bonus imo. I'd rather see the core factions that made Fantasy what it is expanded and made fun to play. Tbh the same applies to stuff like Araby, Ind, Khuresh and Nippon too. Give me the classic factions working well, with complete rosters of units and LLs before adding stuff that was never in the Tabletop Game...

Id like to see them becoming more Turtle-ish as a faction. I really like the idea of hunkering down in a mountanous zone and sending out mercenary bands to do contracts, setting up camps as they go to stock back up. Thus thier settlement importance would need to see a massive buff too. Few but far more valuable settlements would be a unique change up. Most similar to choas warriors I suppose. Only able to build to its full potential in mountain areas I think they also need diplomatic immunity so they can actually do thier mercenary contracts and the contracts themselves need to be overhauled. Ive had contracts to take settlements that the faction giving me the contract has taken themselves.

Maybe tie each camp to an army and add army caps. After entering camp, army can pack it up and unpack it elswhere (when packed, camp doesn't function). Though that would force backtracking, so maybe not. I think camps should be mobile, but they should be somehow restricted in this mobility. I don't want land arks. I'd think mercenary rework might be postponed until DoW dlc.

I do think that plagues need one more Passover from a balancing pov. The system is better but the impact of plagues gameplaywise just does not hold up to the bloodhosts, changing of the ways or devotee armies/unit seduction systems. I think this could just be a buff to the numbers. Maybe some benefits that scale into end game to when you have tons of infection points. I’d love to be able to spend 1000 plus infections on extremely nasty plagues that wipe out garrison troops or give enemy armies extreme debuffs in battle. I’m trying to think of ways to make a plague as impactful gameplay wise as spawning an army for KHorne and slanesh or all the bullshitery that Tzeetch can do.