1:17 that's "low voltage bounce". The battery is hitting its low voltage limit (10V for the 5Ah), which is making the "power good" signal turn off, which turns the saw off, battery voltage recovers, then the "power good" signal turns back on and it keeps going. I show this in my [005] vid and even reference one of your older vids. The 8Ah HO also does it once at 2:44 when it hits 12.5V.
Great and very-useful video! I just bought the HD bundle with the SuperCharger and two 8.0 FORGE batteries - the weight of the old 6.0XC with the significant extra pop! I really don't want the weight of the 12, so the 8.0 FORGE seems like a great option! Thanks again!
As always, great video sir!! Man, that saw is a thirsty girl!! You can totally see that the engineers over at big red are designing these new gen tools for the Forge batteries, as they should. However, all my boys around here with the red tools from the Home Depot won’t be happy since they all bought combos and deals that mostly came with the old standard 5ah!! Poor guys! I really appreciate your testing and results, can’t wait to see your run time video!! Thank you sir!!!
I used to use a dcs565, but the base is beaten up and cuts bad. I swapped it for the leftie with a 8ah battery - lovely combo! Milwaukee makes great tools - from a guy who has 2-3000 bucks of dewalt tools.
I could tell in my limited testing of the FORGE BATTERIES that the TABLESS CELLS HAVE MORE GET UP and GO JUICE now looking forward to your next video on run time with that saw and FORGE BATTERIES to see how much more wood each FORGE BATTERY can cut then the other
I personally love my 2834-20 was going to wait til I saw your video of it but just couldn’t wait. Definitely have to get used to blade right though. Fantastic video as always!
Excellent video! I’ve been waiting for one like this to come out. Would LOVE to see a direct comparison between only the three forge batteries (especially 6.0 and 8.0 since they’re priced identical). Temps, charging speeds, tool performance, etc.
I use the Milwaukee rotary and D.A. buff for my job buffing vehicles and the 8amp & 12amp HD die just after 2yrs. The biggest killer I found was the Milwaukee chain saw. It fries the BMS and the battery cells.
I’ve been waiting for this type of video in this saw. Thank you! I’d be curious at what battery does it start to compete with or beat the flexvolt offerings.
@@FusionBoost2.0 I agree. And the way they’ve structured M18 is basically the same as flexvolt but just worse. Still have to buy an expensive special battery to make it work but has heat issues that flexvolt doesn’t. Not to mention flexvolt prices have come down and deals are abundant
@@FusionBoost2.0yes it's possible, this same guy here has a video of the 578 against the 577 rear handle the 577 cut out n stalled twice the 578 never cut out or stalled n was slightly faster sounded stronger also , so therefore 🤷
If they did a 9.0 high output with the similar cells to the 6.0 high output, like Dewalt has, but Tabless, it would be the another level yet altogether, likely a volt or two less sag. The cells in 8.0 and 12.0 are significantly less amps output then the 6.0
Interesting video. What do you mean, my motorcycle battery won't perform as well as a golf cart battery?.......... Of course it won't. The laws of physics still apply. While this voltage drop stuff is interesting, just like a corded saw, you try to keep the rpms up and avoid forcing it. First day on the job in 1982 I was told to "let the tool do the work, don't force it." We got the first Milwaukee cordless saw, which was a POS compared to any cordless saw today, around that time. It was strictly used for that trim cut on that odd 2x or nipping off a corner of roof sheathing. It MAY have been able to rip 2 sheet of plywood on a full battery, haha! Obviously you'll want to go slower with a lower output battery. Just like you'll get lower performance from a lower output engine or one in "ECO" mode. I commented this same issue with the M12 stubby on various batteries. Were all of these batteries new or at least the same approximate age. If you watch again, I believe the 6.0 HO outperformed the 8. That shouldn't happen if both batteries are in good condition. Methinks the 8 is well on the downward slope of life. This is a production saw. Blast through cuts and keep humping. Keep the battery packs charging and close by. What these things are able to do on an 18v battery is amazing. I don't need this saw but for those who do, it'll be a welcome addition. I think Fuel saws that came out about 5 years ago only came with a 12ah HD battery. There was a reason for that. A beast of a saw needs a beast of a battery. But if you take your time, it'll still rip a sheet of plywood down with a 5ah battery just fine.
That's interesting, and almost insane. It would be interesting to know how much current that saw is pulling. No corded tool could ever draw as much as that saw...120v mains can't deliver that much. But does anyone *need* this latest saw? There's a sort of circular arms race going on inside companies between the tool techs and the battery techs. The tool guys want more power; the battery guys deliver; the tool guys want yet more power...and so on. The question is: how many people really need the power that saw delivers, or can even put it to good use? It's possible we're approaching the point where power-related tool improvements don't prove much in real life...even if they help keep too companies' bottom lines looking good. Really, a tool that sags on any battery other than the biggest Forge???
Non-fuel tools are basically the same as previous Gen Fuel tools, especially the new brushless non-Fuel stuff. That’s the future. 99% of people don’t the new ridiculous Fuel stuff that requires specific expensive batteries to even run. Milwaukee will learn when sales drop. Except they won’t because brainwashed, FOMO’d sheep will keep falling for the con.
That's kinda crazy how bad it runs on a 5ah , I know a lot of people have those batteries because they come with kits. Imagine being on a job site and having only charged 5ah batteries left with a charge that day. That kind of performance on a 5ah is not ok imo.
Milwaukee has told everyone that there are 3 tiers of tools and they need certain batteries to power them. This tool needs big batteries. I am not knocking Milwaukee, but I just wish it told you on the box that it needs certain batteries to properly run the tool. Fits all M18 batteries is true, but works with all M18 batteries is not true.
Let's be honest, there are tons of guys out there running cheap Amazon knock off batteries with unknown battery cells. This will get dangerous at that point stressing cheap battery cells well past their ability to feed the draw the tool is asking for. Overheated batteries, damaged saw circuits. We'll see it.
That's why every time I get a free Batteries from HOME DEPOT with purchase of M18 fuel tool I return them to make the tool LE$$ CO$TLY and even If I get a free Batteries from OHIO POWER TOOLS and ACME TOOLS I $ELL them not even opened on FACEBOOK MARKET Place the only BATTERIES I have now from MILWAUKEE and DEWALT are there POUCH CELLS and TABLE$S or the FLEX VOLT 9 AMP because it's 21700 cells
@@WorkshopAddict Very thorough video. Wish we could standardize the speed in which the saw is fed, but it would have nominal changes on the numbers and your end results would likely be unaffected. I didn’t catch what size material was this? (No doubt selected to adequately stress the batteries). Which M18 battery or batteries failed to work with it? CP 3.0?
I would argue that this issue with getting some huge descrepencies in performance between batteries is just what is bound to happen to Milwauke for two main reasons. 1) They are always putting "most powerful" at the forefront and 2) they decided to keep their main platform at 18v instead of going to 36v or 54v. You're going to have this difference in performance be an issue on any platform, but I think it will be most prevelant on Milwaukee's. They pushed past what those HO batteries could reasonably handle a long time ago. In order to keep it 18v and push more power to the tool, you have to draw more current, no other way around it. And in order to push out more current, you have to keep updating your batteries to have the most fancy pants cells. And you also have to not care that your stuff isn't built to last all that long. *not an M18 hater btw. Love all my M18 stuff
I have been saying this for years ,, Milwaukee is drawing too many amps in their high demand tools and stressing the batteries, that's why I use Dewalt Flexvolt the batteries don't even get slightly warm .
Good thing is tabless cells exist now for Milwaukee. But it’s gonna expensive to run new m18 tools going forward. Milwaukee is overdue for m36 platform at least for angle grinders, circular saws , miter saws and other bigger tools.
@@minhdaubu2363agreed. I have tried both Milwaukee dual battery yard tools and the Dewalt. The 60 V is so much nicer to use. Milwaukee stubbornly sticking to the 18 v is interesting. I absolutely hate that they market these dual battery tools like they’re some game changer.
@@minhdaubu2363even if they ran 36volts, it comes down to how many amps the individual cells put out. If you have tabless 8.0 split to a 36volt 4.0, the watts output of the battery stays the same, each of the 10 cells can only put out in the neighborhood of 30-50 sustained watts, not sure about the Tabless max, but I am guessing, my point being, you can only draw a given amount of AMPSx3.7 volts for each cell. The only benefit is a very slight loss in energy transfer efficiency, which is minimal with their bigger supply cables, the fact that those cables are very short, and with the design of the motor.
I have a feeling that "THICK KERF" Milwaukee blade has a hand to play in all this as well. If you stick a Diablo thin kerf on im sure the 6.0 HO won't have nearly as much voltage drop and will do just fine.
Maybe. But a Diablo Thin Kerf is .059" and this Milwaukee Thick Kerf is .071". Yes, it is more, but is that going to make that much of a difference? If it did, Milwaukee probably would have put a think kerf on this saw and been able to advertise it as even faster.
Let's not pretend like 12Ah high demand was able to deliver till this point. Many times had it overheat on my table saw (just repeated cuts- but less than an inch of depth, 9 inch cut off saw- absolute battery hog- never manage to drain the battery, always overheated first. M18 sds max just removing tile adhesive, barely able to keep it from overheating. Forge batteries should be released long ago to keep up with FlexVolt
Flexvolt has nothing to do with Forge. Flexvolt is "old" cylindrical cell technology, exactly like Milwaukee's regular batteries. Forge is the Powerstack equivalent.
@@Surmoka thanks for stating the obvious, my point is that flexvolt was still ahead of High output, I know because I could compare to my mate collection of similar tier tools and simply his batteries were running longer without overheating, if I'm correct only 6Ah Forge is similar to Powerstack
Just curious what is the beef with the 8.0 high output? I just cut the bottom of a door the other day with that battery and the gen 2 circular saw and it seemed smooth to me. But i havent used it a whole lot. Ive been only getting into the high output 8.0 this year. The other day i was using the 9.0s HD on the dual battery vacuum doing some sanding and clean up until the battery died and i noticed they were quite warm to hot. There are certainly newer m18 tools that seem to stress the batteries a lot. And as I start to buy more of these tools I start to notice the Heat . 🔥But after watching this i think they're making the non HO s obsolete with these newer high amp tools.
yes a very good point..about obsoleting the ho batteries !! this is great observation..thank you much ! I will be returning this as I just bought and didn't open...but don't want something that hungry !! 😢😅 dull blade ..older battery will then reduce performance even more so not a good idea long term . THANK YOU SO MUCH !
@MrHotfog 👍Are you are returning the 9.0 HDs or the 5.0? I may burn down my 9.0s with the vacuum, but it's out of warranty anyways so it is what it is. I actually do like my 8.0s since they give me good power in saws, long runtime in tower lights, and they aren't as big as a 12.0. I haven't done the vacuum rundown test with the 8.0s so I can't say if they get hot in the vacuum or not compared with the 9.0s
If you run a thin kerf blade, This saw has as much power as ANY saw will with a small battery. It will just be SLOW. The old 6-1/2” brushed was also REALLY SLOW with the 5.0 battery. The big thing for me is, when I am on a roof, and my 8.0 runs out of power, and I have a few short cuts to make, it will finish it with the battery that is on my impact driver. Flex volt, multi-volt, not so much. That is the big reason I am still on the m18 platform.
Milwaukee tends to push their tools to draw more power you will find that the board just can’t handle the heat, they don’t really update, wait till you keep using it the tiny components will fail and you can’t charge them. plus they do not balance cells when charging
And when their tools fail, you cannot repair them because there are hardly any spare parts available. You have to buy half of the tool in one package and that is cost prohibitive.
Milwaukee refuses to up the volts on there batteries, other tool brands have allready done it , would definitely not buy this saw unless i allready had forge batteries , i bought the newest Milwaukee 6.5 only because i allready had a forge 6 battery also the new 6.5 works good on any battery just less power
They don't up the voltage but they doubled the number of pins on the battery for higher current transmission. That's about the same as doubling the voltage.
The reason I kept my 978 n never got the rear , I'd rather hv the rear , is because the rear cut out twice on his vid n the 578 was more powerful, so it wouldn't of cut out if it had a 12 instead of the nine ??
If I wear a Milwaukee shirt, I am a fanboy. If I wear a Jeep shirt, I am sponsored by jeep. I cant win, so I wear whatever I put on and forget about it.
@@WorkshopAddict Oh, no worries. It was just, I guess, a happy accident that you were sporting a solution to the problem you were demonstrating. I have always respected the degree of neutrality and well, professionalism, you present in your... enthusiast journalism? Perhaps that's speaking too highly of it, but that's what my mind classifies it as.
6,000 RPM is too high for battery saws to not bog down. This is just a foolish speed pursuit. Many other saws are ~4000 RPM so they will cut a few seconds slower, but they won't bog down and give a much better practical performance.
@@bryang9158 that saw the new m18 is 3200 watts (source toolboxbuzz) the dcs578 is 2456 watts ( dewaltwebsite) and you can feel it too when pushing throught full depth
Craftsman has some new tools out. New impact,hammer drill, screwdriver, ect. Would love to see a review of them. Especially the impact. Just a thought for a future video
This is proof that the battery and the tools really don’t communicate with each other the saw should of recognized the 5.0 ah to reduce power and so on and adjust accordingly
It's not really possible for a saw to modulate the load on the battery. All it could do would be to PWM to lower the RPM, but then it would just stall. The only tools where this can work is vacuums, blowers, pumps, and maybe impact drivers/wrenches. For tools like drills, saws, grinders, etc, the user controls the load on the tool by how hard they push
@@toolscientistMilwaukee has claimed that the tools and battery communities with each other for best performance and battery life but this video proves that there red link technology is just marketing
Think that saw will be cooked in a short while. Seen the older one go down on several occasions. Milwaukee stuff is like owning a hot rod fun and fast but not reliable.
What is the cost of thr saw? Add $250 USD for a 12ah battery, add another $250 as a spare or maybe 2 if professional. You have a tool that overall cost roughly more than $750 just so you can complete the job efficiently. This added cost has to go somewhere. Charge to the customer wanting the work done. Gone are the days when a corded tool was the only cost to a professional and never heated up, ran for hours. The argument/fear of what if no power, no cords to hang on to etc... has really done a number on the industry and only side is getting richer.
You're obviously not a contractor if you think like that. Time is money, BIG money and tools like these make you save time. They're a lot more convenient and more powerful than corded, they get the job done faster. Logistics are also much simpler, as a simple 15 amp breaker will be sufficient for an entire 4-6 man crew. Even if you have to replace them at the end of the warranty, they're still worth buying and it's not even close. If cordless tools made the job more expensive, you wouldn't see every contractors ditching their corded tools.
This is how Technology works. Todays Wizardry is tomorrows crap you give your brother-in-law. Buy stuff, use it until it’s dangerous , never look back.
Let's be honest. We all see them, the guys that are too cheap to buy the big batteries and live on Amazon knock offs. Batteries from unknown places, with unknown cells. They're over rated from the get go, things will get dangerous with tools asking for that kinda power draw from questionable batteries. Overheated, over worked batteries won't end well for anyone using them or the tools they're running on.
