Good Queen Alyssanne put an end to the lords right to the first night. But before that there must have been a lot of unwanted children. She visited Moles Town and talked to the women there. Perhaps she then found out what was going on and put an end to it. There used to be a Snow gate in the wall. Perhaps named after all the bastard children that passed through there. I think Alysanne stopped that too, and thats why the gate was renamed Queens gate. Perhaps the Others have been pissed ever since!
@@jonhauge-evaldsson783 This is pretty much confirmed long ago, no other reason for Queen Alyssanne to make all these drastic changes. This obviously instigated the Others to start preparing for war.
Often you hear that in bad winters Old men will go off into the woods and never return. On the surface it seems they are just sacrificing themselves so there is more food for women and children. This may be true but I believe it goes deeper than that and they are giving themselves up to the others willing or not when the others didn’t receive the babies they’re owed. When enough are given the others make their way back north and the winter recedes with them
This would explain why a lot of the others kinda look like older men. They definitely don’t look like babies, so unless others age, where did the adult others come from? The others, which at least appear to be adult men who have battle experience despite apparently having been hanging out on the sidelines for centuries, surely haven’t all come from babies. For a race who’s entire purpose appears to be killing, sourcing your armies from babies is simply not a smart move
@@emilybarclay8831 The Show others look like old men but the book others are described more like the Sidhe made of ice. They're snow elves not wrinkled old men.
The fact that the Night Watch oath states that Crows "can father no children" (that they could give to the others) rather than "father no heirs", could point to the Watch's existence literally being what broke the pact the Others had with the First Men in the first place.
Interesting. So, the Night's Watch protect the realm from having to face the consequences of breaking the pact. A pact that was made because the realm could find no other way to end the Long Night, possibly.
It's worth noting that the "father no childern" line is not in the oath Sam gives at the black gate. I don't think that it was in the original oath I think it was added later. I think it was originally a part of the Nights Watch duties to ensure that the Others were given their sacrifice which was a part of the pact with the Others.
@@andrewfarrell1816 If it was originally, "father no heirs," (which it occurs to me that I don't recall if that was a part of Sam's oath, so this could be pointless speculation) then that could be a way to prevent the Others from having any claim to rule in Westeros?
My take on the "bittersweet ending" is that Jon will make a pact with the others and he will have to go with them to north with some of the northern lords. A song of ice and fire is a anti war story. The story won't end in fighting it will end in understanding and agreement. It will end in peace between humans and the others.
For this generation anyway, I think the whole point is that a time loop started somewhere-either by bran or by the GEOTD or the first NK/AA and that must be settled before any pact can be made. I don’t think grrm will close his ending but leave it open for younger generations to either learn from or be doomed to repeat...
@@MC-el2us but this generation didn't remember even though "the north remembers" If it ends the same way, they are doomed to repeat the same cycle again.
Damn I never thought of the White Walkers taking children as akin to Theon’s situation at Winterfell before, in that perhaps in both cases it is the same gesture of submission to the winning party.
The moment that you compared the abduction of Lyanna to the myth of Hades and Persephone, my jaw dropped. What an amazing catch, and with how it affects the seasons too... Wow. You're doing a fantastic job. I'm obsessed with your channel!
You bring up the night king chasing the nights queen a lot something when you mentioned it in this video made me think of Dany's wake the Dragon dream about her being chased by Icey cold.
I think the Starks and Targs’ magic is actually near perfect parallels of each other. The Stark’s magic, as far as we know, is more associated with the old gods and skin changing abilities, specifically with wolves, and the Targaryen’s magic is associated with dragons. Though the Starks are associated with ice and Targaryens with fire, neither of them, as far as we have seen in the books, ever use ice magic or fire magic themselves... with an exception with Dany, but all her ancestors burned alive trying to fuck with fire magic lol.
This is why I wholeheartedly love these books and the world GRRM has created. Not only are they masterfully written stories, but they’re also filled which such incredibly rich layers of detail. So many elements of mystery, symbolism, intrigue and myth to find if you look for it. And above all else it created a community for people who enjoy these type of things to get together and geek out about it, sharing theories and discussing the stories. This channel is one of the best places for me to tap into that. Every video blows my mind when I get to entertain the notion how much thought is behind all of the architecture of the plots. Big thanks Luce and great work!
I think Jon's plot is more to parallel King Arthur. Realizing who he is and what his destiny is, but subverting it to where he realizes he doesn't want to be king of Westeros. He has no connection to the south and has lost much of his connection to the north. He will become the King of the True North after the wall has fallen.
Considering Bran's insane abilities I think regardless of where he ends up the White walkers are currently looking for him. I also think Jon would never let his brother Go with the white walkers. What a good twist it would be if Jon became some form of King of Winter, and Bran, King of Spring.
Jon Snow king of winter and Bran King of Summer…. In the end the the Starks take back ruling the land, a more ancient house than that of the blood of the dragon. good theory!
@@JJJJJVVVVVLLLLL Bran is connected to the weirwood network which could be traced back not only to the first men, and the children of the forest before the first long night, and possibly Azor Ahai and the night’s king and queen. So yeah given the fact that Bran’s abilities give him the opportunity to see the process of some of the magic gives him an advantage over the Targs. They can bind with dragons based on their blood but there were rituals, ceremonies and spells long lost to time and with old Valerya that they have no knowledge of. Daemon may have been the real last dragon binder that understood the process of not just dragon bonds but dragon will. That is gone in the current story. Bran the broken isn’t my first pick either, but the plot seems to be pointed that way based on the literature and the literary elements.
“No, my lady. What I know is that Others have been stealing babies for several thousand years. His arrogance took her breath away. “It seems to me that Starks have been stealing babies for just as long.”
It’s really thick in that first chapter with Robert at WF. Ned is also playing the Hades role, keeping Lyanna in the underworld while Bobby wants to take her to a sunny hill. They’re also doing Winter King / Summer King stuff
I love the detail about the Gilly flower. With a title like A Winter’s Tale, I don’t think that was just a coincidence. Also, I really appreciate how you are able to show the repetition of the patterns you detect throughout the stories.
Winter's Tale is totally a bonkers play. There's all kinds of sacrificed/abandoned bastard baby drama including a bundle that can identify the baby as royal, fools and shepherds rescuing said abandoned baby, bards with secret identities moving the plot along, kin slaying curses, and even a statue of a dead queen who comes back to life...I think there might be way more in the material than just a passing reference to the Gilly flower.
@@DavidLightbringer LOL that one in particular is part of the class considered his problematic plays, because they are just way too hard to follow. Wikipedia is definitely the way to go. There's something about the feud between kings who were best friends that really resonates on a number of levels. There's an accustation that one king fathered a child on his best friend's wife, then sixteen years later in act 3 after all the crazy drama the once best friends kings' children are married like they should have been...Looking forward to some future Tyrion analysis!! His black and might as well be white hair, mismatched eyes, missing nose, a face only a "mother" could love makes me suspect Dany and Tyrion will be rich in symbolism. That betrayal for love seems like something a Lanister would do. Plus, the Lion of Night and Lady of Light legend would sync up nicely with Tyrion refusing to let Dany kill Jaime, who killed Dany's father, who was accused of fathering Tyrion etc.
@@SZQ428 I was scrolling and reading through comments, and came across yours, so I started reading Winter's Tale because I was curious about how hard to follow it is. "Psh, how bad could it be?" I thought. It's a real piece of work, let me tell you. I lasted maybe 10 minutes before I stopped trying to decipher it on my own, and opened a version of the play with translations of all the most difficult lines. My personal (and admittedly not formally educated) opinion of Shakespeare is that he gets too carried away with the stylized language much of the time, which I find tedious to deal with, but when everything lines up and he turns down the incomprehensible gibberish dial just enough, ringing tones of beauty result. For example, this line from very early in the play: "Believe me, I speak as my understanding instructs me, and as mine honesty puts it to utterance." That sentence feels like a warm blanket. Shakespeare's writing is genius. Even the incomprehensible gibberish is genius for various reasons much of the time, though it's a pain in the ass to read.
@@choronos you’re all just feckin rare brains in these comments Shakespeare doesn’t talk like that cuz he’s some fop, it’s because the man’s been dead for 4 centuries You’re looking at theater from 400 years ago, friends. 😂
I don't understand how you don't have more followers - especially when you consider that GRRM is never going to finish these books so smart, well-researched theory may be all we get in the way of bringing some sort of closure to this story arc. I am always so impressed with your work AND you have the nerve to be funny in such a scathingly subtle way. It's freaking brilliant, LML. YOU DESERVE MORE SUBS!
Thanks thanks! I do think he’ll finish but if he doesn’t I’ll at least make a few videos to speculate where it was going. Hopefully that won’t be needed. Cheers!
Something interesting I've thought about is how the heroes may beat the Others. Martin has stated that he doesn't like the Phantom Menace-style defeat of Sauron's forces in LOTR, so I'm thinking that the books will have the Others defeated in a different way compared to the books. Maybe Jon kills the Night King, only for the Wights and the Others to still be alive. He finally figures out what he has to do, and turns himself into an Other via Dragonglass in his heart (like the show Origin for the Night King), and assumes command over the Others, bringing the Long Night to an end. It would be like Sauron being defeated by the Fellowship of the Ring via one of them taking his place? Something to think about!
Arya kills him. Arya is death, or trained by death, all the symbolism of the house of b&w and the training she receives, ot all leads up to her being the deathbringer. The show just didn't show any of that so it was really confusing and anticlimactic. :/
@@alicecuriosityoftenleadsto6288 Err yeah ... but no. Arya's entire arc leads down another path. Jon's entire arc is in the North, and with the NK and the Others.
@@alicecuriosityoftenleadsto6288 Arya kills who? There is no night king in the books, remember? There is no one guy that when killed causes everyone else to die like some videogame. If there was, why even send Arya? Why not just everyone pool in money and higher a proper faceless man to kill this Night king?
The Night's King is a historical figure; the thirteenth ever lord commander of the Night's Watch, who fell in love with a female Other, declared himself the Night's King, and began to do terrible, vile things in her name. He was killed by the Starks and their allies shortly thereafter, but left a lasting impact that has passed into legend. The Night King in GoT is a unique character based on him, but the real deal died a long time ago, and was completely human. The show also revealed that the White Walkers were an artificial race created to be a weapon for the Children of the Forest, but in the books, the Others are insinuated to be a natural, if alien race all unto themselves, operating by their own constructed agenda that apparently has thus far translated to 'conquer the world and cover it in our native darkness and cold,' instead of 'kill everything because kill everything.'
@@justathan8257 I believe Arya's story will lead her to Euron. He brings the apocalypse, possibly tears down the wall with the horn and grabs one of the dragons, making him a formidable player. And Arya takes him down
Don't know how you managed to condense the 'Blood of the Other or 'Other from another mother' stuff down so well but you did a great job of bringing it all out to a newer audience. I have always thought from day one that Jon is getting blue eyes at some point & that the Others had a hand in building the wall for mutual reasons. Can't wait for TWoW. ❄️❄️❄️
JoJo this really was my biggest condensing yet, I was almost worried it was too packed for people to follow, but the comments have been really nice so far!!
One of the things I like about ASOIAF is that it doesn't follow the same tropes as most fantasy stories. Can't wait to see which of your theories are true!
Nearing the end of a re-read of ASOIAF, literally just finished the Jon chapter where the thousands of wildlings pass south of the Wall, then I see this video! Such a spooky chapter when Tormund speaks about the Others, and then Jon receives the letter from Hardhome. "Night gathers, and now my war begins..." I am tapping my foot anxiously, I NEED TWOW!!
Also - THAT DREAM JON HAS AT THE OPENING OF THE CHAPTER! Clad in black ice, fiery sword in hand, fighting the dead, then next thing you know, he's murdering the living... Then he wakes up, and Mormont's raven is pecking him. Shortly after, the bird says: "King. Jon Snow, Jon Snow." And Jon remarks that the bird had never said his full name before. Perhaps the raven is being "warged" by something connected to the Others. We are expected to think the raven is saying "king" because of Jon's Targaryen father. But what if it's in fact the Others saying "King"....? Some cold entity looking "balefully" through the raven's eyes, trying to commune with Jon - the Prince Who Was Promised (to them)...
@@chunkypythagoras1732 It's practically confirmed that someone or something is warging Mormont's raven. I wouldn't guess if they worked with the others, but I certainly think it could be an ally (Blood Raven)
If you look at it from the perspective of that the Night Queen and King are just trying to save their child from the living. Parents stopping at nothing tonsave their child. Its quite a beautiful story.
This was so enjoyable and playful in tone that it gave a nice contrast to Grim Theme it was tackling of Jon being A Gift to Others ! Loved it in execution and style ! Kudos!!
I think Ramsey also has something to do with some of the old rites in the north. Surely the Miller would have been hung from a weirwood following old northern traditions and so Ramsay would have been conceived under a weirwood after a sacrifice. This is similar to Dany's conception who was conceived after a fiery sacrifice.
Fantastic video! Wonderfully edited with appropriate artwork and music. Absolutely stellar job LML. And for what it’s worth, I find this to be about the perfect length. Sometimes I start to zone out for those 1-2 hour videos, 20-40 mins suites my brain perfectly lol
When you listen to LML's in depth analysis and interpretation of GRMM's novels, you understand what a genius GRMM is...worthy of a Nobel Prize and I'm sure he will be awarded one. It also explains why GRMM takes so long to write the books of Song. These books are not just an unfolding story with beginning, middle and end, but a deep deep mystery of why, and to make the 'why' pay off, a lot of clues, breadcrumbs, symbology, and archetypes are woven into this incredible tapestry. It's akin to the most legendary classic works of Pilgrim's Progress, Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno...interesting that these works are all religious based, and that Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno are basically poetry...as I believe SOIAF is..a huge epic poem with recurring 'chorus' of multiple heroes, villians and damsels in distress. So of course it's feasible that the great Prince, Jon Snow, has a destiny of mammoth and almost unbelievable consequences. For the foreshadowing that GRMM has been weaving into his 'verses', it all points north, and only something of unimaginable occurrence has to happen. Jon Snow to become a leader of the Wight Walkers therefore is believable...that another Long Night to happen from a meteor cataclysm is believable. What we all are wanting to read is the how. With @Lucifer Means Lightbringer finger on GRMM's pulse through LML's own epic dissection we are in good hands...carry on Sir!
Awesome condensing of like 10 or 12 hours of The Blood of the Others series. One of my favorites! Merry Xmas bro, and a happy New Year (incase you don't stream before then) Quinn too!
I've kinda always loved the idea that the honorable borderline lawful good Starks are actually the evil to end the world because of deep ties to the others. The prince that was promised reborn in another person and the ultimate evil reborn through the Starks
The Last Hero somehow survived, when he journeyed north to find a way to defeat the Others, even if the Others closed in on him, his sword broken from the cold, his 12 companions dead. He may have been the 13th lord commander, and when he returned to the Nightfort he was accompanied by a bride with skin white like the moon. To keep the pact, the peace, children had to be given to the Others, like thralls. But old Nan said the Night’s King was man by the light of day, as if he was conflicted. So he sought a way to break the pact, yet he knew that if he did the Others would come and man could not defeat them. A weapon that could defeat the Others was needed. So he sought to forge a sword that would not break from the cold and eventually succeeded, forging a sword the Others could not withstand, which required sacrificing his bride, and her moon-pale skin cracked as she burned alive. Brandon Stark had broken the pact, and wielding Lightbringer he went north, forming an alliance with Joramun so that together they could all free themselves from the Others and push them back far in the forever winter lands. The north remembers...
Dude, your theories always sound spot on! Do you ever think George Martin either: 1. hates you because you got everything right (and spoil his surprise) or 2. loves you because you're basically writing it for him? (he goes: hey, never thought about that, that's amazing!) No seriously, your videos are very interesting and well thought out. Please keep makling them! Peace
I mean in all seriousness if he ever heard of my work I’d simply hope he’d be glad to find people pulling at his mythical threads and tuning into the symbolic layer of the story. It’s not about being right about everything so much as just looking at this part of his writing and appreciating it :)
@@DavidLightbringer If you put so much effort in your writing as Martin does, I guess you would want people to reckognize it. You (and others) are helping me apriciate the many layers and depth of his stories. So, I am grateful and I think Martin is too (sooner or later he'll know about this channel, if not already) Have a great Christmas/ hollidays!!
LML, I must have missed this earlier! Love, love, love your stuff. I hope you and your 5/8’s (mates) are well in these ghastly times. Merry Christmas 🎄 from down under 🇦🇺JayKay.
After a 3rd or 4th listen to this video, I am convinced Benjen is going to be the Prince that was Promised to the Others. The Others either have him or they have been hunting him. The trap Waymar ran into may have been laid for Benjen. So 'Uncle Ben' will show up as Nights King and face off against Jon who takes his place as the PtwP to free his uncles soul.
In terms of the origin of White Walkers; I kind of enjoy thinking that when the First Men and the CotF came to a ceasefire, the dissident CotF were banished North. The wall being built to keep these dissidents out, and it growing naturally over time by accreting ice mass makes sense to me. This hypothesis is not complete, but I enjoy somewhat simple or rational answers to mysteries. I believe the show did something similar, but I only watched season 1.
Love the artwork you keep finding. I think the saying there must always be a Stark in WF has to do with Northern politics more than anything to do with the wights. And a fortnight is 2 weeks. Say a vow to Val...Great video. *7 commercial interruptions.
Can we just adress the elephant in the room: Crasters Sons are the most inbread children imaginable. He makes them with his mother and his daughters. Like even Joffery is far away from that level, since Gillys Baby is probably like the 4th generation of pure incest. Which means: The "gifts" the Others get, are probably poisoned. If you are in the "The Nightswatch offered Children to the Others at the Nightfort" and "The right of the first night created a tons of Bastards, that then might have been offered to the Others" camp, then the Others got a really diverse pool to keep their community alive. And now, all they have gotten is Crasters Sons for like the last 50 years. That is probably destroying their society and forces them to march south. And if you really dont think George R.R: Martin has genes on his mind in this book, just remember: The whole plot in Kingslanding sets into gear, because people like Jon Arryn and Ned Stark apply Mendels Laws...
Joffrey's grandparents are first cousins, his parents are possibly meant to be identical twins in that universe - identical twins have the same DNA - so Joffrey is incredibly inbred.
Hum, a fella with the blood of the Kings of Winter, the Dragonkings, the Kings-Beyond-the-Wall and the Others... Jon will be a guy with super powerful blood after resurrection!
Been following your work for a few months. And this, by far, is the best quality video you've ever made. Maybe not the most complex in terms of analysis, but my god was it a great pleasure to watch this video. Voice levels 👌🏻 Music levels 👌🏻 Jokes/puns 👌🏻 The actual analysis 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻 Nicely done
Still watching but wanted to point at a few things for fun. Jaime asks "is that you Stark?" to the ghostly others in his dream. Seems to point at Starks being related to the others. Also, Rhaegar says "I left my WIFE and children in your hands". Sam steals not only Craster's baby but also Gilly, his wife.
5:48 "So at this point the white Walkers are pretty stinking mad." 😂🤣 Maybe it's because I'm tired. But I'm laying here giving a relisten and this has made me lose my shit. I think I need a vacation.
@@DavidLightbringer If he's introduced revealing R+L=J to the North and the rest of the Starks (because I think BloodRaven might send Jon visions of Rhaegar and Lyanna's interactions (maybe seeing them marrying in the Isle of Faces and/or showing to Jon his real name) when Jon is inside Ghost), bringing up Ned's bones AND Robb's will, he will be a better and greater Giga-Chad than Bobby B or Barristan Selmy!
Man Ive been looking forward to this video and you did not disappoint. You never cease to amaze me. I've been watching your videos and streams for about a year and I have watched so much of your content and this video still had me going 'Oh woooow' and 'Hmmmm' multiple times. The symbolism and parallels between characters/houses/magic is insane. I really think you're gonna be right about alot of this. Keep up the good my dude. Cant wait for the next video.
Jon going north of the wall to assume his role as king of the others would be so much more satisfying than in the show where he just went with the wildlings
I've got to say, that artwork at 26:41 . Just wow. It even captures some of the personality differences between Ghost and Grey Wind (easily the two most badass of the direwolves).
One tiny thing I noticed while rereading GOT was Ned saying there's a special place in Hell reserved for the Starks when he's about to kill Lady and that just convinces me of this even more Edit: The actual quote is from when he's remembering the days after and it's " Eddard Stark dreamed of a frozen hell reserved for the Starks of Winterfell."
I cursed myself for having learned about R+L=J I swore never to spoil another part of this series. Yet here I stand once more: enlightened, yet ashamed.
One thing that I think really supports your Azor Ahai/Night's King theory with respect to the fire magic being flipped to ice is Melisandre's own comments about shadow magic: "There are no shadows in the dark. Shadows are the servants of light, the children of fire. The brightest flame casts the darkest shadows.” Immediately makes me think of the Others described as white shadows; if the brightest flames cast the darkest shadows, white shadows would be cast by the blackest flame - a dark solar king (Night's King/Blackfyre etc.). There is also a thematic parallel as George takes two things that are thought of as opposites - light and darkness - and highlights that they are actually degrees on a scale. Perhaps if shadows serve the light, heat serves the cold? Or something along those lines...Black shadows are the children of fire, white shadows the children of ice.
So GoTdamn AWESOME! Somebody send me more corkboard, stick pins n yellow yarn - er, and some more wall space as well please! Ferris Bueller you're my HeRo! Seriously though...you are killing with these bro. MUCH APPRECIATED!
Ah yes this is a great one because the theory itself is super old, so this video was me collecting all the evidence they’ve been gathered over many years and putting it in one place
