The Problem with Kicker (And How We Fixed It) | Magic: The Gathering Outlaws of Thunder Junction 

You’re wrong, Gavin. Not every mechanic is Kicker. Some mechanics are horsemanship.

He admitted that everything is kicker. Finally

Given Kicker is just "the concept of an optional, additional cost" I've always been surprised when people are like "Hey this mechanic's just kicker!" Like... yeah. Kicker's as broad a concept as you can get.

I quite like the plus. Reminds me of the little tombstone on Odyssey Block cards that cared about the graveyard. (Side note, I do appreciate you guys bringing that back on original frame cards, like the dredge package in Ravnica Remastered.) And remember, if it's not kicker, it's horsemanship. ;)

Love these style of behind the design curtain videos. I never would have picked up on the subtle differences between having the player do math vs just writing it out themselves!

I didn't even notice it, but I think that's the perfect place for it to be, where it's subtle enough to not draw attention to itself but still make me realize that I have to add the costs together.

There's one thing about the Spree card plus that I actually really like in just an aesthetic part of its design. The little angled bit of the plus sticks out of the card frame entirely, into the border. Just a tiny bit, subtle, but it's there and likely makes it a lot more noticeable with the cards are all lined up in your hand. It 'jumps out', so to speak. And it's not enough of an extension that border width variation would cause a problem with it. It creates this visual illusion that the card is slightly 'bigger' and more 'dynamic' in a spatial sense, which is cool. Compare and Contrast this with the Gravestone symbol that was used during Odyssey on cards that worked in your graveyard in some way, allowing easy identification of cards in that zone that you needed to care about. That symbol was firmly inside the border, but outside the 'normal' boxes, helping it stand out in its own way.

I’m not a fan of additive costs for the reasons you put in the video but I defo approve of the use of iconography to make it easer to parse those issues. 💯

The + is a good addition. Kicker should format similarly, but only in the text box and not the mana cost. A spree card MUST include one or more kickers, whereas normal kicker cards are fully optional. Spree is just mandatory multikicker.

The plus is really cool, but I don't know if I like the way the little border flick goes over the black border.

As someone who can't do math on the fly to save her life (apologies to my playgroup lol!), I appreciate that you all are on the lookout for ways to lessen the cognitive load of the math we have to do! If I have one point of feedback for Spree it's that I didn't actually see the + in the mana cost until I'd seen several Spree cards already. It's a little small! Otherwise I think it's a pretty neat mechanic

Not going to lie, I didn't notice the + symbol next to the mana cost of Spree cards until you mentioned it here! I feel like its very subtle and blends in super well.

Spree seems awesome. Looking forward to playing some cards with it. My one bit of initial feedback is that the addition ➕ symbol seems a tad small

Haha, that's hilarious. I had no idea what the kicker cost was but remembered the flashback costs.

as a graphic designer and player I really like the solution in framing to spree. it's easy to interpret and read and presents a flexible and escalable gameplay that makes for awesome agency driven moments. 10/10

I like the +, I wish wizards kept the tombstone for cards that interact with the graveyard. It would fit right at home on Disturb, Aftermath, flashback, Dredge, Encore, Unearth, Embalm, Eternalize, Escape, recover, Scavenge and retrace. Any reminder or symbol that says "Hey I deal with X zone/trigger" is very appreciated, as many commander cards come without reminder text, and even as a highly invested player of 20 years I still forget sometimes. (Here's looking at you Graywater's Fixer's borderless version). Also afterthought, maybe a Wing on things that interact with flying (Hidden reach is too powerful.)

As someone who is normally against modifications to the elegant MtG frame and text parsing (e.g. I disliked how inelegant Cleave felt), I do like that for cards that have a non-optional additional cost, especially if it's mana based. It has grown on me, even though I had mixed feelings the first time I saw it. I'd consider it similar to the gravestone on old frame, a neat indication of functionality that does not disrupt the design of the frame too much overall.

I likew the spree mechanic. In fact, I was thinking of a variation of Farewell where each selection of creatures/artifacts/enchantments/graveyards would incur an additional cost based on what was selected before Outlaws even came out. It would allow the control player to sweep the board or clear out a graveyard when needed without having to wait to get to a full 6 mana cost. A variation of Farewell looks like a perfect candidate for a card using spree.

I'm confused as to how the negative of kicker from a design standpoint was people needing to calculate costs, while Spree is good because...you calculate cost, but there is a + symbol in the mana cost? So being upfront visually via mana cost that you need to pay more makes Spree good compared to kicker where it's not upfront, just written on the card, even though you have to physically check both cards to calculate costs?

I never noticed the plus in the cost at the top in any of the reveals, but I'm glad it's there. It's very subtle, but I imagine it might be different holding the card being able to notice

I love the plus, specifically because it appears on cards that *cannot be cast* for solely their mana cost. I saw people asking if it will appear on other cards with additional costs as well and I don't think it should (at least not for things like kicker where the additional cost is optional). It's nice to know at a glance that this card is necessarily more expensive than the mana cost implies while in hand.

I initially wasn't keen on Spree's templating, but it's grown on me very quickly. The mechanic itself seems like it will be very interesting to play with as well. Honestly, for a set where the flavour and themes didn't interest me at all, I've been pleasantly surprised to find that the mechanics of OTJ actually have me more excited to play with it than I've been for any set in years.

I like the templating of spree a lot. It is basically just doing multiple different kicker costs/effects which we've seen before, but the way it's laid out is very clean with the plus signs and the modal template.

What I hate is the one version of Squee has the escape mechanic but isn’t written that way

I love when you talk about mechanics and the brainstorming behind them, I like this video just like I appreciated your previous one on first strike

I thought that one of the more widely known problems with MtG's card layout was the placement of the mana cost symbols. Precisely because many people don't fan the cards in their hand in a way that makes these symbols easily visible. I was really surprised by the example given when explaining the '+' symbol in the mana cost because this type of fanning looks really unnatural to me :D

I love the neatness of using the corner space for the +

I'm back from prerelease (which I played before watching this) and the plus was extremely helpful, thank you.

I love the little plus just like I enjoy the flashback tombstone it helps visually represent something very well.

I didn’t even think about being able to see the plus while searching or looking at a hand fanned, well done, I like little things like that a lot!

My main concern with it was cards like disdainful stroke. I was initially under the impression that due the "+" being in the mana cost of the card that similarly to X spells they could be countered by something that cares about mana value. I guess I was wrong, but now that I know this I do know better for future.

I wasn't sure about the + in the mana cost, but after what you said about the fanning your hand, it make sense so I now fully on board

I haven't held physical Spree cards, but the "+" design looks good and not too intrusive. And the mechanic itself is spectacular.

Plus is awesome. I am always delighted when you find a way to use the border to help communicate something unique about the card.

Keep making behind the scenes of design vids. Always fascinating!

I really like the little plus. Honestly, it might work well as a reminder for kicker cards in the future. While I'm always a sucker for old cards (and old border versions), I appreciate the little bits of visual clarity like this. One example: I love the Brothers' War commander decks but my brain has a hard time remembering Bident of Thassa is an artifact.

Love the plus. It makes a card much more intuitive and clearer to read.

Gavin... seriously... you are a better spokesperson for MTG than everyone that's being paid to do it. Love your content, and I feel GOOD about magic after seeing your videos. Keep it up

I do like the templating on the Spree mechanic, it feels modern in a good way.

I didn't realize there was a + simbol in the top mana cost of the spree cards, I like those cute little details

Spree is so easy to digest and I personally love it. It flows nicely like kicker, multikicker and flashback.

Lol so now I have to show everyone this video and convince my EDH pod to Rule 0 that Spree, Overload, Bestow etc should be counted as kicker when I play Hallar or Verazol kicker decks

I even liked the little tombstone on flashback cards.

I feel like the plus symbols are a clean and helpful way to help illustrate how the cost for the card is going to work, especially for newer players. Honestly I feel like you could even do a similar thing to future kicker cards and it wouldn't seem too out of place.

Love these style of videos!

I love the little plus for basically the reasons you outlined.

I think the plus up in the top right is nice. I think it definitely solves a bit for the complication of having to think about the mana cost in the top right hand corner AND the kicker costs.

The plus is a solid introduction to the cards, it's intuitive and informative. As a designer I would love to see magic cards cleaned up even more going forward. 👌

Spree is honestly such a marked improvement over the nightmare that is entwine, an additional cost that's formatted like an alternate cost.

I commented in a group chat about it when I first noticed that plus. I for one not only noticed it but felt it was a nice change.

Really like this. One suggestion would be to make the + sign as big as the mana symbol so it stands out more

I wish there was a symbol or border or something visual for abilities that trigger once a turn or "only activate as a sorcery". You get so used to abilities being usuable at any time that its the top misplay I see in the middle of a crazy game, especially when a card is new or rarely seen.

I think the plus is a simple, crisp, elegant addition. Reminds me a bit of the gravestone from yesteryear. I didn't think the card frame could be improved further, but you guys managed it!

I adore the new + for spree!! Itd be interesting to see if this was applied to something like kicker itself, whether the plus or perhaps a >>> style pattern with the same arrow like in the spree frame but bonus lines at the end to show “hey, this has an alternative/additional casting cost” or whatever. Obviously would need some planning but I dunno just feels pretty neat:) love the videos as always!

You’re not wrong: the flashback cost is easier to remember. I couldn’t remember any of the kicker costs you put up. I also like the + but I am part of the camp that thinks it is a little too small.

I'm glad you made this video. when I origianlly saw the first spree card I just immediatly went "this is just kicker the mechanic.... wait isn't kicker just kicker the mechanic?" but i'm glad you addressed the meme

Great video cant wait for the pauper video

I like the little things like the + on cost and the graveyard icon on flashback cards!

This was great, makes perfect sense

Love the plus. Great add.

I like the plus next to the mana symbol. Good job.

I've noticed a similar problem with newer players who don't quite understand how kicker works. Because of things like overload and flashback showing the entire cost next to the keyword, they cast the spell for only its kicker cost and ignore the base value, thinking that's just how the mechanic works.

Love the plus, also helps remember that the cmc on the stack is higher

I really like the + sign personally. As someone that's played Magic for awhile, it really sticks out to me that it' there. I honestly wouldn't mind if it was added to any card that has an additional cost. Perhaps there could even be a symbol for cards that have an optional cost, but perhaps that is getting into the realm of adding more complexity instead of adding more explanations. I do think it's interesting to know that the team takes into account the mental load for certain mechanics. With that in mind, I am curious about how the design team feels about the day/night cycle from MID, which I feel is a really tricky thing to mentally keep track of while balancing everything else, especially since the main card you see with it is The Celestus.

Invasion block was my favorite Standard (Type 2 as it was called back then) to play in and Kicker was a great mechanic back then and still is today. Seeing Spree in the new set was really cool and it's my favorite new mechanic in a very long time and I really hope to see it revisited a lot going forward.

I did remember the costs and kicker/flashback costs. But I played the mentioned cards a LOT when first playing magic and those two blocks are part of my DNA

I really like Spree as a mechanic and can't wait to try it out in my local prerelease. I haven't even gotten a chance to play with the cards yet, and I'm already hoping we see it again someday! The modal nature of it makes for some very interesting design space.

interesting to see the thought proccess of how this evolved. The addition of the + is a lot like the addition of the tombstone for flashback. Was there any worries that the + symbol might cause confusion of what the mana cost for the spell?

Honestly, I didn't even noticed the plus through spoilers until you just pointed it out heh' ...

7:05 I love the small + It's intuitive and non-invasive, and easily identifies the card in a fanned hand. I'm a big fan of them. Especially with Smuggler's Surprise. I see some card I want in instead, but I've used 2 of the abilities to win games, so... it's staying in! There were some really fun spree cards like Shifting Grift or One Last Job (so fun in a Dogmeat commander deck!!)

I have followed all the OTJ previews this week and poured over so many of the Spree cards... but until this video I absolutely did not notice the tiny "+" until my attention was drawn to it. Maybe in paper it is more obvious but it seems super small and easy to miss!

I love the plus sign. Reminds me of the tombstone from Flashback, which I miss.

Big fan of what we've seen for spree, especially the +! The templating is very clean

I hope spree continues to come back. There's so much design space. Y'all have really outdone yourselves with this one.

My biggest issue with Spree is the power creep of it. I like having multiple options, so Spree is a really fun design space and great in Commander where you need to jam a bunch of different cards for different situations into your deck. But, most of the Spree cards are actively on par with or better than cards that dont have Spree. Like Insatiable Avarice is just a better Sign in Blood and can also be a tutor.

Very excited about spree in the new set, it looks sweet!!

I think the plus in the corner is a very cool way to indicate that there are required additional costs.

I like the plus. It seems very intuitive.

I didn't notice the plus until you pointed it out.

I LOVE THE GREAT TRAIN HEIST ! Awesome card, awesome mechanic, won me so many games at prerelease!! Love casting it and saying 'in goin on a spree!!'

The + in the topcorner is an interesting addition. But have you considered the implications possibly percieved on the mana value of the card? We always teach new players that the mana value of the card is the value in the top right corner. But now that corner states you have to add something to the cost of the card. Implying they might need to add the spree cost to the mana value too.

i've literally never noticed the plus sign. which is a shame, cuz the flashback gravestone was always something i liked. it really made "this spell does something unusual in your graveyard" feel special and noticable. and noticing the plus sign would've made spree cards easier to understand, back when i saw my first one!

The + feels like a throwback to the Odyssey gravestones for flashback cards

When i was a kid we all loved volvers. We all picked a tri color and had diff decks. Invasion block and the block after was the most fun standard has ever been!!

I had noticed and appreciated the plus. I like it a lot. I like the design of the plus, it’s not to big, but still nice and noticeable. I hope we see more spree or other forms of “modal kicker” cards in the future.

I genuinely enjoy Spree. When I saw it, I immediately thought about how you could do alternative colors in the cost list for limited. So it could be a solid spell in one color, with boosts in other color archetypes. And even though it'll see rarer use in EDH because of color identity, it could be a helpful diversifying tool when mana isn't fixed, with big cost payoffs.

I like the plus and am happy that kicker cards are still being made.

Nice video. I like Spree as a mechanic - yay to more modal cards - and I don't personally have a feeling one way or another about the + at the top of the card, but I can see how it might serve as a reminder for some players, so that's a good thing.

very interesting video! I must say i don't like the + right there, mainly because the corner goes out of the border and it triggers my ocd >,> it makes my eye go there constantly. I would have liked a lot more to have the + not sticking out at all. as a mechanic it's super fun, but in the end from a mathematical point of view it's very similar if not more difficult to sum than kicker. nevertheless is a clever and elegant design

I really like the '+' in the corner and it reminds me of the old Gravestone for cards that had Flashback in the old days. I would love to see reprints of Kicker/Multi-Kicker use the '+' and even pushing that for a the Gravestone to return for cards that have abilities in the graveyard. Perhaps non instant/sorcery cards with 'from the hand' activations could have a symbol too? We all know what a Miracle card looks like so it's obvious when you draw it that you need to immediately consider whether to use it or not. I consider this basically the same thing.

My guess for what the problem was is close! Though I was thinking more of the mechanical differences between kicker being an _additional_ cost versus the others being _alternate_ costs. The distinction matters in some places people don't always expect - like, you can put a Cyclonic Rift on an Isochron Scepter, but you can't pay the overload cost when you copy it with the stick. By contrast, you can put a kicker card like, say Orim's Chant on an Isochron Scepter, and when you cast it you *can* choose to pay the kicker cost, since it's additional. But while that can be a bit of a pain point for learning the game and teaching others, i do agree with all the points in defense of it - it's still easy to explain, and once you get it down you understand it forever. And some of those interactions can be quite interesting.

I like the +. Small but not fully unnoticeable. Could be cool to add on a card with a mandatory additional cost (like Cathartic Reunion). And it could be interesting to see spree costs which include non-mana costs (paying life, discarding cards etc)

That Final Showdown card looks pretty sweet!

Spree cards are very flexible and well rounded to fit any scenarios! they are great ! I would like to know more about ward, protection and hexproof. I do like some protection knights.

I would love to see the + or something like it on cards with an additional cost, mandatory or optional. Kicker, Tormenting Voice, etc. It's a nice heads-up that there's more to the cost than simply what is in the corner.

Very much like the plus in the corner 😊

I love the plus! I even think cards with kicker and escalate could use the plus as well! Maybe make the plus a smidge bigger, I don't know exactly until I hold them in my hand if the plus is big enough for me.

Good design. The plus is nice but then it makes you wonder why the cards with abilities don’t get an adornment as well. Thanks for sharing the insight.

Me having just built a Verazol deck, wondering if new kicker abilities would pop up still. This makes me very happy 😁

I'm torn on the new little plus sign. I love how intuitive it is and how you can see it when you fan your hand out, but theres something about messing with the Name Box and Mana Cost that bothers me. Like the triangles for the MDFCs. Its useful, but also a little odd.