The Psychology of Classic Servers 

You missed "Want to play a version of a game that hasn't been Microtransactioned and F2P'd to DEATH..."

Josh just gave us a physics lesson, a psychology lesson, and a game design lesson all in an entertaining 18 minute video. Hats off to you Josh. You make an excellent instructor. 👏

“In RuneScape there’s a quest list or you can fish for the next six months” don’t @ me like that, Josh, goddam 😂

For me the difference was that in old WoW every little thing felt like an accomplishment, but in modern WoW nothing feels like that, expect for the few who can do the most cutting edge, most hardcore raiding content. The game is objectively bigger than ever, but actually it feels smaller and less immersive than ever, because only a tiny portion of the overall content is relevant or active.

I helped run one of the supermarket studies Josh refers to. When there are 15-20 pasta sauce options, you can have ample options for your general preference while also being able to be confident the one you choose is the "right" sauce. When there are 100+ options, the large group of very similar choices makes any single one feel less "right"

I think I am a bit of a weird case when it comes to classic MMO's. I never really played MMO's at all until classic WoW. I saw my dad playing WoW when I was very little I don't even recall what expansion it was he played or what class, but I loved to watch it without knowing what was going on. I had tried to play retail, but it all was so confusing and I always eventually quit after about a week. So when my friends I had previously only played games like CS:GO, Terraria, and others approached me about this "Classic WoW" I was super excited to try out playing it. In the end it boiled down to just me and another friend leveling 1-60 together, both of us warriors (Another friend played but he was a mage and played a lot more than us and leveled at like 10x the speed we did). I was still in High School at the launch of classic, so it took us both a while to reach max. Once we did reach max level though and joined our guild I can confidently say Vanilla Classic WoW is my favorite game of all time. There has never been a game that can replace the feeling of walking around SW and being able to clearly recognize almost every person. I could literally walk around and inspect people from other guilds gear and be like "Oh looks like he finally got his DFT this week. Looks like he finished his thunderfury this week. He hit rank 12 this week." People that I had maybe only talked to once or twice or played with in a premade BG once before or something. The sense of community was great I loved the late nights looking over videos I recorded of myself playing in raid just to critique myself and learn. I would do anything to be able to play Classic again with the player base it had the first time. So from me personally I love the idea of classic MMO's and hopefully we can see Classic vanilla again with just a few changes this time around. :)

As you put it yourself in a previous video, the most successful update to WoW was the removal of the past 17 years of updates. Given enough time and divergence from core design philosophies, developers of long running games have a good track record of messing up the game. Sometimes the games with legacy servers were just genuinely better games than what they evolved into. This is the case with Runescape to be sure, and likewise for WoW.

The reason people go back to Legacy servers is usually because everything matters in those servers. Your starting area is important, your first mob, your low level gear, the people you meet along the way and how the importance of advantage in numbers gets you to try and band together to push on. It's no longer a carousel ride where everyone, including the devs, are rushing you to end game. All the game needs to be impactful and have a meaning or else nothing has. I am an classic Lineage 2 player that has played since C4 and have kept playing up until today, and I realise that even on the retail, even with all the add-ons I still make my character look like a low level newbie... Because I dont care about looking like a flashy neon dragon warrior as the end game thinks.... I just want to roam the fields have meaningful fights with monsters and go on adventures...

I'll point to Old School RuneScape. It's no longer a Legacy game, it's evolved into its own beast. Legacy games can't last forever, because either people get bored and move on, or new content gets added, ultimately defeating the purpose of said server.

"Analysis-paralysis." No, it's even worse. In World of Warcraft we literally run sims of our characters to find out if something is an upgrade. There is no paralysis, although there is virtually no choice either the computer tells you what will do more damage and you pick that. WoW has gone so far down the road of "core gamer" content that both Blizzard and the community has been conditioned to think of WoW as a competitive lobby game first and an MMORPG second.

having never played WoW i just subbed for 1 month and have now tried 10 or so hours in retail, classic, and classic tbc. i feel that while the classic versions may not be as user-friendly for 2022 standards they are an overall better experience as a game because i was not given 10000 powerful items within 15 minutes of playtime; i actually had to play the game to gain power. i couldnt mindlessly stare at a minimap to follow an arrow and kill mobs within a set area, i actually had to read the quest log and figure out where to go. i got the impression that retail WoW wants to rush the player through the game as fast as possible to get to end game grind cycles / guild guilt play whereas classic wants the player to just experience the game organically.

"when u see someone riding on a lucid nightmare, you know he had to go through that mace" i felt that on a spiritual level. had to go to work after 4 hours and start over again for another 3

In my case it was remembering the feeling I had playing the older version. But reality sunk in when I realized the people played with back then made it that way. They aren't around now, new people don't always bring the same level of enjoyment. Especially in the age of content creation. And I fully agree with your section on having too many abilities, ability rotations and analysis paralysis. In fact, it's why I like Monster Hunter a lot. You don't have a large selection of attacks, but you can get off that big one that is visible to everyone and sends the monster reeling. I've can't even count how many times I've complemented my buddies on landing a good strike that sent the monster to the ground. For the most part, MMO's just have buttons you press that do damage. I challenge you to enter a dungeon and use an interrupting skill to stop an enemy spell cast or action. See if anyone notices.

You gave a good description on why Guild Wars 2 combat feels more impactful than most MMOs I've played once you've fully understood your choices.

I came back to OSRS because I missed the simplicity, there was the nostalgia element too, but I like how the devs are giving the community a chance to voice their opinions on changes (in-game I might add) to be implemented or skipped.. OSRS is different from what it was in 2008, new things were added, some quality of life improvements and ui changes were made and I must say, the game feels great and the community is as healthy as I remember it being back in the day.. also MAD respect for allowing third-party launchers that give further optional quality of life improvements

I think that Legacy servers could work in a case by case basis if the "Classic" version of the game is different enough, for example Maplestory. The identity of Maplestory has shifted from a slow paced "Social Classic RPG" with emphasis on Role Based gameplay to a fast paced "Action RPG" where you focus more on yourself and solo-progression with light social elements when fighting late-end game bosses. Many of the social aspects of the game were sacrificed for the sake of convenience like other MMORPG's, but there was also a massive shift in the way the game played functionally. If you look at Classic videos of Maplestory, you'll see that the combat was much more slow paced, focusing more on single target gameplay with light mobbing once you started to get into the higher levels. Mobs also took multiple hits to kill a majority of the time. This encouraged players to party up and grind together to maximize their exp rates, though solo grinding was still a viable option due to most, if not all, mobs dropping some sort of valuable item that could be sold on the market. The game now focuses heavily on Min-maxing your character to an insane degree to one shot monsters with Map-wide attacks while also soloing said map. Raids have been reduced from 18 players to 6 players while also (sadly) dialing the P2W up immensely (Seemingly the sad fate of KRMMO's). Every character also has advanced movement allowing them to traverse maps at practically 3-4x the speed of the original game when on mounts. The way the game plays and feels is so drastically different that the game practically became its own sequel without releasing a new title. I also think that a classic server shouldn't a 1:1 creation. It should be keeping the core gameplay and progression in tact while providing QoL, balancing, and improving player pains that existed originally without reducing the overall difficulty of the game. For Example I don't think that boss should be the same if a Classic Maplestory Server was to be made. There were no real mechanics, and the bosses essentially just spammed debuffs while setting your HP and MP to 1. If a classic server was to be made, It would make more sense to revamp the bosses to make them more engaging while still adhering to the core gameplay of the Classic game. How I see it, the goal of a Classic Server should be to deliver a superior experience for new and old players alike while also offering new adventures/experiences for both groups of players. A classic server shouldn't stop updating, but extra care should be taken to ensure that new content/updates don't compromise the core gameplay/balance. To summarize, I believe that if the classic game vs the current game are so drastically different that they appeal to entirely different kinds of RPG players (with slight overlap because of nostalgia) I do think they could exist simultaneously. It would just require that the Legacy/Classic server continued to provide new experiences without compromising the core gameplay to deliver a superior version of the classic game. Hope you see this, I've seriously been wondering what your thoughts on Maplestory are.

i feel you missed one important point. UO, meridian 59 and EQ and even wow in the beginning could not hold more then 3k players. this had as consequence that you had less players to interact with and you would see familiar names all the time. this is simply no longer the case with wow cross server play and the typical lobby based mmo where you rarely see the same name twice even when a new mmo launches.

Ohhh this reminds me of that fleeting period in classic WoW when I was an expert on everything about hunter pets. Which were good and why, where to get them, etc etc.

When EverQuest II first started doing progression servers I was quick to re-sub to the game. Although I quickly found out all of the expansion content was still there. I should not have been able to visit Halas (The Barbarian city, which became a starting area at one point). Turned out all they did was use the updated client, and lock off the expansion zones, but kept the starting area rather than bringing back the original.

Its why in Classic a clear goal of fulfilling the one system of having good gear as opposed to trying to fill out 10s of many different systems for character progression in retail is way more attractive and gives everyone a clearer common goal/competition Alot of this psychology is highlighted at its best when players share loot during group looting, everything has much more value In order for new content, the same game design philosophy and small number of systems must be maintained

I'm a shy person, but my fondest MMORPG memories are from Everquest Online Adventures, a game where grouping up to grind mobs for hours and hours is required. Often, quests also required you to group just to kill some specific mobs. Even with an LFG tool, the game forced you to interact with others beyond just joining a group and killing mobs. You typically had to communicate at least some basic information, such as location and if you needed to rest. Friendships were more easy to form with other players. In games like WoW where grouping and socializing is basically done for you by an LFG tool, even teleporting you to a random dungeon you probably don't want to run, I've had zero lasting friendships. That's partly my fault, but it's also got to be partly due to the game just not encouraging players to actually interact beyond killing mobs in a dungeon/raid. I've done countless dungeons without saying a single thing to anyone in the group. Or groups where no one says anything at all. You couldn't really play EQOA solo for long, but you can play the bulk of WoW without speaking to a single person. Speaking as someone who typically loves playing solo, I think MMORPGs would benefit if they went back to focusing more on forcing players to interact beyond just hitting "accept" on a dungeon queue pop up.

I guess playing old version can also make you appreciate newer content. You have so much nostalgia sometimes such that you think all this was beter in the old version (and maybe some things were) but then you realise oh them changing this or adding that actually makes total sense. It enables new players to learn the basics of a game before upgrading to a newer build. It can provide a way for the developer to learn about their community and what was good about their older game potentially impact even the newest builds. It's always good to revisit the past and see what was actually better - or worse - and learn from it.

in the case of vanilla WoW - I just love the simplicity of the game. It doesn't over-encumber you with mechanics and game systems and it just lets you *play*. Granted, I recognize I probably would not be into Classic WoW had I not played it in 2005

Great video. The analysis paralysis part of the video is a big reason I love Oldschool Runescape so much. Combat itself seems so simple, but your choices in the spells you use, where you stand, the gear/weapons you equip all have a significant impact on what you actually do.

5:30 As someone about to go into studying chaos and nonlinear dynamics, I was not expecting to see the double pendulum in an mmo video. Thank you for making people aware of this!

"Maybe the demographic of the game itself changes." Yes, and this has been the case for a long time. To increase revenue, it has been the trend in MMOs to adjust the type of gameplay typically found genre to appeal to a wider audience. Appealing to gamers with different preferences has had a number of effects over the years, such as making base gameplay more casual, and creating an esports like division for those seeking a greater challenge and competition. And this, in my opinion, has been the greatest detriment to the MMORPG genre--the artificial, anti-immersive shattering of the experience in order to appeal to players perhaps more at home in a different genre. Endgame being the actual game, completely separate arena minigames/track, dungeon finders, catering to solo play, complex twitch based combat, evaporation of player reputation, etc. can all be traced back to this. This has happened for so long now that the demographic of MMORPGs is significantly different from what it used to be in the glory days UO, EQ, AC, and DAoC (among others). Some of the old timers (like myself) still pop in, now and again, but the games have changed, and I would argue not necessarily for the better in some significant ways. Thankfully, there are games on the horizon that are looking at revisiting some of the forgotten aspects of what made the MMORPG genre unique.

The first 10 levels always seem to be the most fun, especially going from rags and sticks to armor and weapons. It drags after that.

Solid work as always! Everytime I see you upload I am excited for what topic you fleshed out and examined. I don't know how you do it but please never stop! This may be completely off topic but I am happy seeing you branch out to different vests. This one especially suits you in my opinion. I wish I had a vest in the color of my eyes!

Looking good with the haircut Josh. Excellent vid as always.

I was watching this on TV and came here because how real-life connected this is. The problem of community fragmantation in real life, is basicly one of the most important reasons we have so many people in depression. You see if you are living in a first world country, the chances are you are not living in the city you grew up. You are not working with the people you went to high schol or university with. You parents or sibling are most likely not living nearby. So the community you grew up with, is actually really fragmented, scattered. This was not really a thing in our world like until last 30-50 years, before that even migrations from small cities to big cities, or to another countries were done as communities, not by random individuals. What this situation creates is that, ones accomplishments in life, have no meaningful feedback in them. You may have solved a big crisis singlehandedly at work, but as soon as you leave that workplace, no one cares, as in no one in your vicinity even knows it. That is exact opposite situation where Josh explained how "you know you did something, but you also know others do know you did it". You did something, and but you know, no one that "really" matters in your life, knows and care for it. So you have absolute no meaningful fulfillment out of it. Now compare that to someone who is part of a community, such as your granddad who worked as carpenter and made kitchens. He did it most likely where he grew up, or nearby. He did it working with people from his neighbourhood. His wife or doughter came to say hi at launch break. So when he builds a new kitchen, his family saw it, he friends saw it, his neighbourhood saw it. And he knows, when someone visits the house that he installed the kitchen, the owner of the house will mention him as the carpenter. This difference has immense impact in a persons psychological well-being.

Thank you for the video. it is very important that you mentioned the balance between content and the social part of the game. A lot of games have been releasing classic games lately. but unfortunately they also lack this balance. Because there is little content in them. in those days we were drawn into these games by this social part of the MMO, we all clung to guilds, clans, communities, and what to do was no longer important. Games have evolved, content has come, the social component has declined. But the funniest moment is that I do not remember the moment when both sides were in balance. the feeling that at the click of your fingers MMOs have become solo games with MMO elements.

Bro, love the videos. The thing I am most impressed about is your speech ability. You never stutter or have to think about your next sentence. It feels planned and well thought out. BZ.

would love a gw2 legacy version Edit: To explain more, prefered the skill tree of the gw2 early version, having to meet certain conditions to get elite skills more reminiscent of Gw1, also the stronger focus on exploration and world events.

I played wow classic out of curiosity because never had the chance to play when it was current. And I have to say I liked it. I liked retail as well - and I do think "perfect" wow would need to backtrack some changes towards classic. But not all in classic was good either. So it is a balancing act. Personally I would LOVE to see classic SWTOR server. I don't like how easy the game has become, how irrelevant levelling process is nor amount of RNG in it. If they released classic server I would jump on it right away.

Thank you for again a very informative video. Also thank you for explaining to me why I, at this moment, enjoy the Everquest Project 1999 character I started recently so much more than my lvl 100 Everquest 2 character. Less is indeed more. Also thank you for explaining that I am actually "suffering" from analysis paralysis when faced with such a situation (in gaming and RL). Regarding your question on the staying power of legacy servers: My opinion is that is definitely has staying power, look at before mentioned Project 1999, which is run by volunteer. The trap will come when legacy servers are setup with the main purpose of making money. When that is the case I feel that it will start to fail

Great video. I arrive late to the party, but I want to spend a paragraph talking about something: how automatic party finders/instance queues and auction halls changed MMORPGs. Remember the days of spamming the game chat in order to find people to group up with or trade with? It was a pain in the ass, and a colossal time expenditure. But also it forced you to interact with other players and, for the sake of saving time the next time, add them to your contact list so you can play or trade again another time. You were forced down the path of meeting new people... the price? hours of tedious LFG, WTB, WTS and other acronyms spammed in various chat windows. When they began automating of these processes with auction systems, party finders, and so on... that was a great time saver so players had a chance to focus on actual content. I bet most people cheered. But guess what? The reality is that for many they might as well play singleplayer, cause the other guys in the dungeon could be NPCs for how much interaction there is: pretty much zero, maybe a greeting at the start... and maybe some heated argument if the bosses are hard to beat, cause there's always someone that has to be a dick about it. A lot of us met our online friends in those awful chats, spending time that would feel a waste as a working adult... however... the feeling of being in a living virtual world is gone together with the time wasting. Realistically, if I connect at 8pm and go to sleep at 11pm, I'd like to spend 3 hours playing, not 2h trying to group up and 1h failing the instance. But at the same time... a younger me would have never reached out to anybody if I had these tools. Plenty of introverts and socially anxious people play online as a refuge, and need a little nudge to connect to others. I wonder how it works today. I feel like there aren't many chances in game. It's pretty much all autopiloted in modern mmorpgs. Which has definitely their advantages, but also a sense of detachment from what the genre was. Also, those awful open pvp games with constant griefing, or bosses with no instances (hello lineage 2) led to epic guild/clan wars to control who's going to farm the raid boss. Mad fun and mad rage depending if you won or lost. Not really a healthy dynamic for the game, but it was yet another element of how the game felt more of a massively multiplayer world than just a server to level up and do dungeons with some randoms. I know I can't go back to those tedious systems but at the same time, I feel we've lost something.

Oh man.... analysis paralysis, my number 1 enemy on table top war games.... I've clocked out so many times because I spent 30+ minutes on a single turn. Oh and hats off to the Lucid Nightmare mount reference... I was so happy when i got it, then found out it couldnt fly lol. (Which I understand now you can equip something on a mount to make it fly ? I dont know, I havent played since BFA)

Having analysis paralysis when choosing which game to play, feels bad man

This might sound silly and this video was posted 10 months ago, but your description of analysis paralysis was really helpful for me. I recently played Grim Dawn and I spent-no joke; 30 hours redoing the first hour of the game with all the class combinations. I felt awful about all the choices I had to make and never heard anyone describe the term before. I had no idea what was happening but over the course of 2 days replaying the beginning and questioning my choices- I just got overwhelmed, a little depressed and stopped playing. Basically. I appreciate the explanation that it's a common thing that can happen. Even though I'm sure I took it to an unhealthy level. Great content, Josh. As Always

I cant count the number of times ive had this conversation with people but you have to be the only other person who also truly understands the WHY of legacy games. You really truly understand the mechanics of what makes an MMO great and i really wish you would get into game dev because you would make an astonishing designer.

100% old mmos have a better feeling to them I personally never played rs when younger. A while back I played osrs and I had a blast. It being simpler doesn't mean its going to be worse it's like you said it gives a better sense of community. My favorite part about playing silkroad online was grinding with the same people and chatting with them it was so cool. I really do miss that part in mmos they personally feel different now. Cheers

I finally bit the bullet and started WoW TBC a week or two ago and I have to say for me it's more how the system and classes have not been homogonized yet. I enjoy the massive spike in power you can get in groups because classes have amazing buffs for one another. I enjoy the free form talent point trees more than the "select 1 from 3" options of modern wow. Sure classic isn't as balanced as modern wow but there is a lot of character in old school wow that's just missing from modern wow.

Great topic and analysis! I want to put a request in for a worst MMO episode on Phantasy Star Online 2. The old Phantasy Star console RPG games on the Sega Genesis are still among my top favorite video games of all time and I'm wondering if it is worth checking out the current offerings in the IP. Thanks for all of your amazing work!

This video literally taught me something about myself I didn't know. I knew I liked the early stages of an mmo more than that late game, but I never really analyzed why. I am impressed beyond measure.

Legacy servers are comfort food, IMO. They offer a safe and known variable in your life that you can defer to and invoke feelings you are mostly familiar with. They are great, but like comfort food, you can't just keep playing them indefinitely without change.

It's definitely super janky, but I love the old version of FFXI (the one that is only available on p-servers...) much more than the current retail version...

You earned a subscription for telling me stuff I already know in a far more eloquent way than I would have used to explain it to someone else. So I can just reference your video in the future or steal some lines. Thank you. Just one question: I know the axe, but what was this outfit from modern wow?

Great video, very interesting points regarding quantity vs quality of choices.

That double pendulum looks like a sweet boss idea.

First video I've seen by this guy, subbing though because I like psychology and science intwined with mmo sociology. Also all those ps2 titles behind him are s class 👏 🙌 👌.

I remember back in the day. I paid for Everquest before it was popular! I still remember the first time I made a character, an Erudite Magician. When I was low level and grinding level 2 mobs in Toxxulia forest, I met someone who was level 40, he gave me a weapon and totem that he was too high a level to use. We talked and as I levelled up I joined him in the odd raiding party. Then they released the expansion packs. I was a college student so didn't have the money to buy them, my friend did so we ended up spending less and less time on the same path. By the time the 11th expansion came out, we hadn't actually spoken in years. Then it went free to play and all the expansions were included, I stopped playing. I left my character with the totem and weapon in a crate ready to give to another erudite magician in Toxxulia forest. I've never met one.

You might want to check out City of Heroes, a game that provided near limitless character creation choices and customization yet possessed rigid enough archetype concept models that you could look at another player and tell by their archetype alone what they will most likely be doing for the group. There are no 'legacy servers' for the game because the game (despite it's updates) still remained close to how it originally played when it first came out. A live server right now, City of Heroes: Homecoming, I think makes for a shining example as to how an agency can maintain and update a product without resorting to extreme changes and expansions which inevitably water down the client base.

Can't wait to see asmons reaction to the axe.

"Fresh start servers" did someone say boosty boys? Seriously though tbc boost killed my legitimate excitement

I’ve replayed vanilla wow on fresh servers 6 times now and had a blast every time. There’s burn out at max level but the rush of that initial launch is so hype it never gets old for me!

Loved the little double pendulum graph visual. Very interesting.

When I think about what made Classic WoW enjoyable for me, it was that sense of community you mentioned and greater simplicity. Not simplicity in the number of abilities, but simplicity in the encounter designs. Retail WoW's M+ dungeon encounters always have 15 different things going on at once; Classic's have...a couple. On the other hand, Classic had more, not fewer, abilities, and I preferred that. Just the community feeling isn't enough, though: Lotro's legacy servers didn't attract me at all because they didn't restore the classes to an earlier state.

I love that WoW is SO deeply entrenched in mmo culture, we have seen the cumulative adoption of "classic" as the title for legacy/vanilla servers just because blizzard decided that's what they're called. Before the Wow Classic announcement, there was NO mention of any of these servers being called "classic" on ANY game. Now they're ALL classic games. Oldschool runscape is now colloquially "classic runescape" etc.

For me personally it's the simplicity and impact, Frost Shock in classic wow was just so satisfying. It's definitely an old way of designing games which i think a lot of people miss.

Very good job doing the opening narration in a single take. That was a lot to say without messing up.

There is no fun in playing a "solved" game, at least for me. Once the perfect way to do something has become common enough to be the standers, you are just executing the motions someone else dictated. Every release of new content can only delay this state for so long... Until it gets stale.

Unlike Sampson, he still has power even with a haircut

I had an idea for an mmo that the progression would be going deeper into a never ending world below. Something like a hell or it’s a post apocalyptic future where the earth is just a huge city as far down as you go. Each level would require certain criteria to be met for an individual and also the server. As you go deeper you would need more powerful players to clear the next stage and you would need to help other players get to your strength to join you in taking the next level. The world below could consist of castles, keeps, and outposts that need to be conquered to reach the door of the next zone. If left unchecked the enemy could slowly regain control so the top players would need to keep an eye on the front line from time to time if they are off doing other things.

I really enjoy the gameplay loop of the 1-60 leveling experience in classic WoW. Going to a new area, doing a series of minor quests with a few quest chains, getting a new level once or twice a play session, then things usually get capped off by a dungeon which serves as a zone's climax. You do the dungeon at least once, maybe a few times if you're trying to get a specific item, then you move on to new zones. There's a very strong and consistent feeling of progression and character growth as you're constantly getting new gear, learning new abilities, and seeing new places. I find it a very compelling experience compared to endgame, where growth slows down immensely and the grind sets in. Another nice thing about leveling is that you don't need to worry so much about optimal builds, best-in-slot lists and the meta. You level fast enough that you will replace any gear soon anyways, and a lot of good gear is guaranteed from quests, so there's (usually) no point wasting time grinding for specific pieces. You just play at whatever pace you feel comfortable with and you'll always make satisfying forward progress. Also, in most MMOs the starter zones are unique for different race choices and sometimes classes. This means that you get a questing experience that caters to the specific flavor of your character. This is an important part of the roleplay experience which is almost always missing from endgame, where class/race-specific content is very rare. Playing an alt through each starter zone in Classic WoW is a lot of fun just because you get so much flavor in those quests.

I never wanted Classic. But if they ever did it i hope for them to then take another path. They could still do it after WotLK. They could still say "ok guys these are the 3 releases after which it gone downhill" and then make somethign new out of them. I always wished for an ability to play a character as freely as possible without overly complicating things. While i loved skilltree theorycrafting it wasn't about min-maxing but about how i might be able to play while still doing what i want and not going the BiS route. Being statically bound to a faction, especially as Druid ligth RP player was kind of annoying in the past but with BFA became horrible from a RP standpoint. And so i always wished that languages were something that could be learned in some way and reputation, even with the other major faction, could be gained similarly. And even if each of these tasks was on the level of Insane in the Membrane i would've likely still have done them. But instead we got a time gated 1.12 release that locked certain items away until 1.12 was hit. I mean sure even if you know all the tactics in MC you still need to reach the dps / hps required to not run into enrages or other mechanics. Wait .. did we buff classes significantly between the MC release and 1.12? Surely not... i mean we nerfed rogue twice but other than that... ? Wait we buffed everyone else instead? Mmh... Anyway .. i hope Blizz finally wakes up....

A lot of what seem like obvious upgrades in modern mmo obliterate the coincidental feel brought about by those older systems. If any good is to come of classic servers it will be the hope that developers will start to ask if those old systems can be modernized while keeping their community growing function. Older combat is less involved yet also more involved. Fewer buttons but obvious outcomes for how well you use them. Play a warlock on classic and try to abuse the pet health regen and the order of your abilities and you'll quickly notice that you can save yourself loads of eating time through when and how you deploy your spells. I want systems that capture this planning game, that constantly chanegs with better gear and new spells/ranks. Its old but damn it modern games just dont get near that level of involvement, especially not wow. Mash whatever and play forever. The spells are cooler, the buttons more interesting, yet resources have no importance and gear even less in the leveling. An adventure was turned into an obligatory preamble.

It was great playing WoW Classic again. I didn't have any illusions that it would actually replace the retail experience for me, since it lacks a lot of the comfort functions that I enjoy in the current game. Transmogrification and Dungeon queues to be specific. What I really missed was the way the classes felt. It's not that there were less abilities, for some classes there are actually more in classic than on retail. What I missed was the class identity. The fact that the class you play fulfills a certain role that no other class could fill. Some mechanics I really missed, they were way more engaging than the current "build resource, spend resource" that most classes have been homogenized to. Especially in a state of the game where you can quickly level a class to max level, I don't get why most classes have to feel similar.

Josh, I love your videos man, very thoughtful. Consider reading Sheena Iyengar’s book the art of choosing, I think you’ll find lots of insight there for a lot of the observations you raise

Paper Mario: The simplicity point is definitely a thing for me. Games like Paper Mario start you off doing 1 damage, and if you get the active jump press correct, you get to double your damage. Very impactful and simple. Makes you feel good without bogging your brain down with padded numbers.

Josh: "Too many choices will lead to analysis paralysis" PoE skill tree: "Let me introduce myself..."

I subscribed. Really enjoy your content.

I 100% understood and agreed to all your points when you showed the Whirlwind Axe

I tried WoW Classic, wasn't for me, but the first 20 hours or so were a lot of fun, when there were hundreds of players in the same zone. Until you had to compete with these 100 players for a single quest mob, that's when it stopped being fun pretty fast.

I do not like Classic WoW. I did play it but my sweet spot was MoP/WoD quests and class design. If WoD wasnt cut off and had such a severe draught of content it would have been my favorite expansion. If WoD had Legion levels of content it would have been wonderful. P.S: Yes, I am a Warlock and I want Kil'jaeden's Cunning and Soul Swap back. I cannot see WoD Demo back since we've gave birth to a class called Demon Hunter.

Jesus christ there is a LOT of wisdom packed into this innocuous youtube vid. I don't sub on first videos often, but this was brilliant!

At 8:10 I was expecting Peon's face to appear when you said "Big Damage" hahaha love you videos mate :)

I’ve been playing classic wow for 2 years, I played it back when it was new, and I am just as addicted as I was then. I play so differently now, so I get to experience parts I never did before, and I get to enjoy the social aspects way more - I have met really good friends and even my boyfriend through classic

My favourite thing about FFXIV is that it _is_ linear and everyone's experienced the story together. No matter what little sub communities show up, we all have that in common. It's a shared experience, and the overarching community is closer for it. The game grows and changes like every other MMO, but that is a constant, and it helps you feel like you know the game quite well.

The multiplayer tutorial cave in Everquest didn't come along until way later. The original tutorial was an offline instance- your starting location was based on race, class and deity.

Great video. Keep up the good work.

Ehhh.. I feel like the downside to having the same stuff to follow as other people therefore making a community to find others that have the same interests as you do is that toxic people will find the same people and I feel like toxicity has a longer lasting effect and grows faster than the other communities except probably RP.

One of the things I absolutely love about FF14 is the bustling population. Everything I'm doing there are other people there. And this was before the big boom in popularity. It's just even better now.

Went back to OS Runescape and all the memories flooded back! Although now I can see all the makes I used to do, thinking I was thinking ahead; but rather slowing my gameplay. For example I used to carry my ore every single time I got a full inventory, no matter what ore it was; meaning most of the time I was just running back and forth; where I could of just bought the ore from the GE and sold the more pricy ore instead! I know it won't last forever, but its nice to see how far I've coming since I first started; not just as a gamer, but as a person and a new way of thinking.

This was a really interesting video. The main MMO I play is FFXIV which probably is never going to get a legacy/classic server. 1.0 is rather famous for being terrible at the beginning, and when asked if there were any sort of plans for a legacy server, the director simply replied "N I G H T M A R E"

this pendulum graphik was oddly satisfying

I see classic servers as time bombs, you'll eventually get bored because they don't get updated anymore or they'll go full circle and get the update that made the game unfun the first time around. They work in small bursts, but can't substain long term as your "main" game.

Haircut looking great. Also as always great video.

I constantly go back and putz around on Destiny 1. Its always interesting going back to the Tower and getting invites to raids, sparrow racing, custom PVP matches. I had some new players, NEW Destiny 1 players, who just wanted someone to help them through some story content. I gladly went through with them while completely obliterating everything in my path and was just like, "Dont worry, you'll get here too. It just takes time. Dont quit, dont worry about grinding everything and just have fun Playing the game." I think a lot of people forget to have fun sometimes.

Oof that "Go and fish for the next.. 6 months" got me good. I have spent at least that long fishing across my runescape accounts.

I was one of the few who seen this classic server dying down coming. The problem with the idea is that if the game can't bring anything new on the table after 6+ months of playing, what is there to invest if you've already achieved by the time you got to max level and have all the best gear? Make an alt? I'm sure that alt will eventually end the same way as the main one. A fresh classic may work for those who either want to re-live the events or compete for some one-time items. But I don't think it will work in a long run if they don't add some additional contents that makes it feel "fresh."

@14:22 ahh the Whirlwind axe .. lvl 30 warrior quest that was not easily doable at 30.. but got was it a nice weapon .. and was actually 1 of 2 weapons but noone actually chose the sword

11:40 Yeah. In a FC discord I once commented how I'd like some more effects to fill the different mudra combinations and I got the answer that why if I wouldn't use them all.

Classic servers are good for some warm fuzzies and member berries. But time has proven that they are ultimately short lived, and likely unprofitable for most games. If a game exists under the promise that it will never get new content and always be stuck in a time period, people will get bored the moment they exhaust most of that content.

Because with literally every other game you can just play it again.

I love your point of view, seems to be my own observation although I was not aware of it until you said it..... keep up the awesome work please!

I just wanted to say that I love the new hair cut and keep up the great work.

You mentioned Ragnarok Online last video and this is also a great reason why Ragnarok Online private servers are so unbelievably, incredibly popular. It's a cozy game filled with nostalgia, and people consistently want to return to that. It made a lot of people's childhoods and created so many good memories, and being able to go back and know what all the classes do and where to hunt, what gear you want and where to find it- it's so unbelievably cozy and wonderful.

He didn't even mention the most important one: Wanting to experience something that can no longer be experienced because we are all completionist types.

This explains more than just gaming but also about life, such a well-made video.

I appreciate the uploads in 4k, I want to see every pixel of that mug collection.