The Real Founder (of McDonalds Hamburgers) 30m. 2022 

Thank you, Drew- very astute comment- Ampopfilms

Couldn't agree with u more personally Ray Croc screwed them over in terms of the macdonalds brothers not getting any further royalties and also the fact Ray Croc put them out of business when they sold the naming rights as u seen from the film the renamed restaurant the big m went under

​@@MampsUK Because literally a block or two, he actually put a McDonald's store next to the original one

@user-jm6mt1en2c I know it was right nearby think they said abt a block away. Feel sorry for the macdonalds brothers

​@@JosephMendoza-k1i So was Ray Kroc not supposed to? Keep in mind that San Bernardino had a loyal McDonald's customer base...should they not have set up shop there? Dick and Mac had decided to start a new company (after they reneged on giving the physical location to Kroc after selling the McDonald's name... something they hadn't even trademarked up until that point), so they were essentially competition. Keep in mind, the brothers did *zero* work in franchising and had stated their goal to retire, so it would have been crazy for Kroc to just give up San Bernardino entirely.

His name is on all those restaurants around the world.

It was really not Kroc, it was the VP and CFO that he met and taught Ray that he was in real estate, not burgers. That same man went on to be president and ceo. HE was the true brains

Matt Plyley -- of course we all know and even seen the documentary, interviews and the Movie itself.. Ray Kroc made the final decision and wanted to take Shortcuts cutting down the quality completely off in,coding powdered milkshakes and frozen patties than fresh, frozen factory fries than fresh chopped in store those days

@@dhanaty6744 and that mentality, money over honesty and integrity is why the US has the problems it does.

ray kroc made mc donalds for so processed shit

@Jamie Galvan Consistently bad?

Very observant point.. Thank you

The speedee tactics weren’t a confidential secret. Kroc’s genius was franchising & expanding.

No... That's the wrong lesson, the right lesson is protect your IP and give your partners something to fight for, something to lose and do what ever you can so that they can succeed....their success will always be your success... Where they failed according to the movie is they force Ray in a corner where he had no choice but to kick them out to grow. They were too strict and didn't care he was breaking even. They care only about quality even at their own expense of not making much profit. In business of you don't scale you retract and the McDonald's stop scaling! That's why they need strangers...

Unfortunately without Krock, none of us would be eating at McDonald’s today.

Yeah no. Instant is good

It’s sad how franchising ruined their original philosophy

Well perspective is what I'll say I prefer Ray Kroc more, yea mayb he is lowkey kind of a jerk himself in some ways but I like his story

Amen God bless them

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They don't. They didn't do any work to get these 1million each!!! Educate yourself on the story. They were doing no work while the salesman was building the brand, values, and expanding. They would have had only one store, which they even said they would.

@White Boii The McDonald goal was to be millionares. Read before you speak.

@@aurelianspodarec2629 it's their own idea that made them millionaires. It also became a standard in every fast food chains.

@@paulinebuenavista7689 No. Their idea didn't make them become millionaires. I am not sure if you did watch the movie and read about the story, did you watch the documentary? They had an idea, but couldn't execute it. They executed it at a small level, making them a few thousand dollars. If the other guy wouldn't come up, and manage the business, expand it, build core values, they wouldn't made millions because they already tried to expand. You can't make millions with one shop. They tried to expand and they failed, and they didn't want to expand anymore, untill the other guy came You might be young or not know how business works, but he build the entire McDonald brand and its values that we know today. Otherwise, if he didn't, we wouldn't know about McDonalds today.

@White Boii life is about money, we study we work for money n perhaps some fun behind it but still for money. Go ahead and say Im superficial and materialistic, mayb u should go get a job at fokin mcds Sounds familiar aint it

He was a shark with a fantastic bedside manner, that's why Crock was so pissed off about the whole thing. Him and his brother made Crock work for every scrap but in the end he made it big.

@@thyrassword9698 it wasn't the mcdonald brothers that forced ray to work for them. ray chose that life. if anything the mcdonald brothers had a better working relation with their first franchise agent bill dansey.

Does'nt sound like they were forced out...sounds like Croc paid them what they wanted.

They weren't forced out. The only way they would have been forced out is if they never met Ray Kroc. There is absolutely no way that McDonald's would grow without him, and eventually the novel McDonald's restaurant would have died off like the hundreds of other novel burger joints from post WWII that no one remembers.

They both became multi-millionaires. Terrible outcome, just unbearable.

@@jeffw8218 how did they become multi miljonairs?

@@beauscheenstra8284 Read the book/wiki, don’t rely on Hollywood for information.

@600blizzy If it wasn’t for Ray Kroc, the McDonalds brothers would’ve had ONE restaurant. Learn to think. Edit: read the whole conversation, lmfao 😂

@@jeffw8218 So?

exactly! THIS is the credit they deserve: they ARE founders of McDonald's and their hard work paid off! They were NOT scammed or fooled, they don't deserve this false legacy. They died a success!!!!

That is true but the McDonald Bros did have about 19 franchise agreements in place before Kroc came into the picture..But, yes, Ray Kroc took it national..

@@ampopfilms took for himself like a greed sack of crock.

Did you even watch this video? Kroc wasn't even their first franchise agent.

@@patrickmorgan4006 That goes to show how Ray Kroc made McDonald’s very successful

@@TheJbarot51 Yes, he did expand their success, but McDonald's was successful before the brothers had ever heard of Ray Kroc. They were doing quite well with their original franchise agent, who sadly died, opening the door for Kroc.

Let's just say he's a nice man....old isn't necessary.

@@danielrobinson9270 waa!waa!

@@danielrobinson9270 But he IS old... why get pissy about such a detail? 😂

@@skylined5534 If that's the case. Why are you getting so pissy with me? It's not that serious. Go somewhere.

I just wish the original could have stayed open and retained all its methods and ingredients to this day. It could have changed its name to MCDONALD BROTHERS BURGERS to separate it.

@@thyrassword9698 I have to say I'd love to have a burger made exactly to the spec they originally made them right down to the dough used for the bun.

​@@thyrassword9698 it's very subjective, the business sold a lot of burgers after Ray Kroc took over

Ray was already dead and people were saying it was good. Now it pretty much sucks but that’s not Ray. Ray has been dead for the last 40 years.

Thank you, Marcus..

Outstanding, StonesAndSand!

The McDonald brothers did, in fact, have a stringent contract with Kroc as their franchise agent..But he managed to maneuver away from it by positioning his McDonalds entity in Chicago as more of a real estate company and exploited that new scenario with the guidance of Harry Sonnenborg.. At that point, Dick and Mac had no desire to fight that moving train and agreed to sell out..

@@ampopfilms Other thing to notice, if Ray wouldn't be able to do that, doubt he'd continue. Plus, Ray actually grew McDonald. They look at McDonalds wealth now, the people, like the guy that made the comment, and say they got screwed, when without Ray, McDonald would never exist, and they would never make as much money, except the money they would make by running one place, that made 40% more money than the other places. So in fact, Dick wanted to be a millionaire, and they were geting more money by month, as Ray was hustiling doing all the work receving nothing, while they were doing no work and receving all these big money back then. So its not fair to Ray - they should have renegotiated the contract and not shit on Ray.

How did they make a mistake by working with him? Their only goal by starting McDonald's was that explicit goal to become millionaires by the age they were 50. Not only did they not achieve that by their 50th birthday, they weren't even close. Ray Kroc eventually paid their 1.3 million dollars of money that he did not have. Had Ray Kroc not come along, McDonald's would have continued to be a single prosperous location in San Bernardino, before some other burger conglomerate (I would wager it to be Hardee's) decided to nationalize and start buying up local burger businesses. And I assure you, they weren't going to get anything close to a million dollars at that time.

Thank you-

Well in a way the founder was sort of about them starting the business and of course it also focused on Kroc as well

Says Joseph Stalin the communist

Its "Their" and yes I agree its really sad tbh. I can not imagine what they had to go through when they lost their own business.

@@josephmendoza5806 so what are they are going to do now 🤔

Kroc had many ideas but the McDonald Bros put a hold on most of them and, yes, that frustrated him.. It was all about the money and the perceived and perhaps justified issue that Kroc had with the McDonald brothers regarding the franchise deals and monies dispersed.. Kroc was doing all the work and the McDonald Brothers were making most of the money..

Dick McDonald was against any and all ideas, no matter how successful they became after Ray went forward with them anyway.

5thcorps Ray had some strange menu item ideas.. An example would be the Hula Burger that introduced a slice of pineapple on a hamburger.. It didn’t fly too well and it was quickly removed from the menu.. Truth be told, most of the vastly successful menu items were created by local franchisees.. The Filet of Fish Sandwich and The Big Mac are perfect examples..

@@ampopfilms do you know when that happened and at which franchise. Also, which was the first sandwich to be introduced into the menu after the classic, burger, fries and shake only items.

@@michaeltnewyorknights8413 The Hula Burger was a meatless burger introduced in the 1960's by Ray Kroc to McDonald's. It was a substitute for American Catholics that would not eat meat on Fridays. The burger was a slice of grilled pineapple with cheese on a bun. But this was designed to go up against the Filet-O-Fish, which was created by a Catholic McDonald's Franchisee Louis M. "Lou" Groen. (Lou Groen) McDonald's ended production of the Hula Burger early on, as it became quickly evident that its alternative, the Filet-O-Fish, was getting much better traction.

Another Bob Kane and Bill Finger situation! So sad!!!

Ray Kroc was a business genius in his own right. And the McDonald bros still became multi-millionaires, which they never would've done if they hadn't met Ray Kroc.

Ray Kroc is the only reason you know who this guy is or what Mcdonalds is. It would be nothing without Ray

mac didn't get over it. he died of heart attack in 1971. richard mcdonald was able to just move on and he got to live to 89 and died in 1998. kroc died in 1984 at the age of 82.

Why is Ray a 'scumbag'? He hustled like crazy to make McD into a global brand as the McD brothers clearly didn't have the energy for such a thing, bought out the McDonald brothers fair and square at an incredibly huge risk for the company and ultimately made their name famous world wide.

@@SerbAtheist bought em out fair and square hope your making a joke.

​@@joeydelrio No, you're the one who's projecting what McDonald's is worth TODAY into the distant past to conclude the McDonald's brothers were robbed. No one except Ray at the time thought McDonald's would become as big as it eventually did. Ray paid out the amount McDonald's brothers asked and made them incredibly rich for that day.

@@SerbAtheist ohh my mistake, the idea is so absurd i just assumed you were not being serious. kroc screwed those brothers just like he did everyone he ever did business with, this is why people refer to him as a "scumbag", thats what the term means. selling crack to little kids is good business that doesnt make it right.

Yeah

94Blocc King That would be Dick McDonald :)

ampopfilms Agree

No they didn't get rob they got million dollars and it could've fail

the movie was a dramatization. in real life. kroc offered to buy them out for however much the mcdonald brothers asked for. however it was kroc that suggested they shake hands on the royalty deal. now if the mcdonald brothers asked for everything in writing i don't think the sale would've gone through. so long story short. they got their money but just no royalty. winner kroc in the long haul but at that moment winner mcdonalds. if the mcdonald brothers cared about the royalty than I don't think thy would've went through with the sale in the first place if they knew just how big their mcdonalds would've turned into. we got to keep in mind this was back in 1961 their burger business was nowhere near the worldwide phenomenon it became.

well actually dick lived in southern california from 1927 - 1967 so he lived in so cal for around 40 years he went back to new hampshire and lived there until he died in 1998 40 years in so cal vs 49 years in new hampshire.

Yes, Ray Kroc started the modern day McDonalds and launched it nationally but it was the McDonald Brothers that started it all..

I can’t disagree with this..

I will say this, Lenny, Dick invested, heavily, in McDonald’s stock when the company went public after Kroc bought them out.. The point being is that Dick knew that Ray Kroc was going to take McDonalds to that other level..

It wasn't right across the street (that was a little added drama in the movie, which was otherwise pretty accurate). It's clear in retrospect they made a bad deal, but that had to do with their fairly limited ambitions compared to Kroc's. They should have at least kept a share of the company.

@@simonbone ray kroc promised them 0.5 percent and they didn’t receive a penny from that.

@@melanincathy Correct, that was the handshake deal. Big mistake. If they'd instead sold Kroc 90 percent of the company and retained 10 percent (or 51/49, or 99/1 or whatever) they and their families would be rolling in money. Plus, it would be unlikely that McDonald's Corporation would spend decades calling Kroc the "founder" of a company that "began in Illinois in 1955".

I can’t say I disagree with this statement- ampopfilms

The quality would have been at that one specific location. Mac and Dick didn't oversee any protocols of any of the other locations and allowed them to do whatever they wanted. Kroc on the other hand wanted a uniform business that only bought the same materials from the company. He also was insistent on getting the fries right, something that he goes over in explicit detail in his book. I guess it's not my place to say if the quality went down since I wasn't alive in San Bernardino in 1961. What I do know is that regardless of quality, McDonald's would not exist today once they were gobbled up by one of the many other burger chains looking to become that big national burger chain.

There is a reason why it’s called a film.

The film took a lot of liberties. We shouldn't use a film as the main basis for history.

One of Dick’s post McDonalds proposed ventures was a chain of motels across America called “ A Wee Bit of Scotland”.. It never materialized but it speaks to what you just mentioned, GioTio123- Ampopfilms

Well BeSPOKEN, Edward-Ampopfilms

Never heard that one..

Ray trampled no one. Every single person important to the history of McDonald's became a millionaire because of Ray Kroc. Without Ray Kroc, no one becomes a millionaire. It's as simple as that.

He sure was, Frankiesmom- Ampopfilms

Well, technically, as the McDonald Bros were employing the similar streamlined method that Henry Ford invented when building the Model Ts for the masses.. The brothers were the first to do it and perfect the speedy system when serving up hamburgers.. And subsequently ushered in the Fast Food industry..

One thing I don't understand is McDonalds probably got to a point where they were wealthy enough to own and operate everything directly. What was the point of still having franchiesees?

Amazon Prime streams a 48min version of The Real Founder

@@ampopfilms 😢It does seem that its not available in Sweden. Only US. Are you able to provide a non US option?

@@dalahast06 Unfortunately not, so sorry dalahast- ampopfilms

i think the mcdonald brothers were just more content with life. they achieved what they wanted to achieve and were not afriad of just moving on.

Norm McDonald Cheers

It was supposed to be both but Dick & Mac never got Kroc’s promise of future royalties in writing..Ampopfilms

@@ampopfilms Thanks, I guess the movie got that correct then and he just didn't go into detail in this interview.

@@Kariakas yes, the movie got it right and as I say in this doc. Dick would have been happy with the movie..

@@ampopfilms Yes I got that but at 25:00 he explains that the deal was 3 million in cash and he only mentions a royalties deal if he wouldn't pay them in cash at 26:20. That's why it seemed different than the handshake in the movie.

@@Kariakas When Kroc first proposed buying out The McDonald Brothers he wanted payment terms for the $3million asking price.. Dick & Mac wanted cash and nixed the payment structure that Kroc wanted.. And so Dick says in the doc. that they might as well stay with the royalty deal that was currently in place with Kroc selling McDonald franchises..

Yes, according to Dick in this documentary, it picked up after the 3rd month..

I can’t disagree here- All valid points- Ampopfilms

Again , An inaccurate statement- Dick & Mac were bought out by Kroc for $2.7 million- netted $1million each after taxes- and that was it- Kroc did promise a future royalty arrangement via a handshake, but, never kept that promise-

​@@ampopfilmsTheir sons could sue Mcdonalds again How Ray Crook intercept by realty

​@ampopfilms in the video didnt dick say he bought stock of mcdonalds so wasnt he still rich?

@@lelelew2735 Dick told me of this stock purchase off camera/ He was very well off - definitely

​@@danielkim6092 Mac and Dick didn't have any children.

the movie was a dramatization. in real life. kroc offered to buy them out for however much the mcdonald brothers asked for. however it was kroc that suggested they shake hands on the royalty deal. now if the mcdonald brothers asked for everything in writing i don't think the sale would've gone through. so long story short. they got their money but just no royalty. winner kroc in the long haul but at that moment winner mcdonalds. if the mcdonald brothers cared about the royalty than I don't think thy would've went through with the sale in the first place if they knew just how big their mcdonalds would've turned into. we got to keep in mind this was back in 1961 their burger business was nowhere near the worldwide phenomenon it became.

They actually pulled their restaurant out of the deal after they had closed. This meant that Kroc had to purchase another plot of land in San Bernardino for a new McDonald's. It wasn't across the street as the movie shows though.

Tbh he didnt invent anything. The real estate idea wasnt even his he was just very persistent and very lucky. Lucky that he ran into real business men who knew what they were doing. The brothers came up with everything successful with mcdonalds. Honestly they were the winners they created a concept got rich, got stock while the guy who stole the idea is now the legacy of the worst resteraunt in the u.s. rays greed and ideology single handedly made one of the best resteraunts in the world to now a soul less poisen machine. They are now so consumed with greed they changed their fry recipe THEIR FRY RECIPE! Imagine being so greedy that u change the ingrediants of one of your world famous foods

​@@lelelew2735quite frankly that's absolute nonsense! That determination created the largest restaurant chain in the world where you approve of it or like it or not. Inventing the idea is wonderful Edison invented a lot of things but JP Morgan made it into trillions. That created jobs that created economic wealth that created the industry and the greatest economy in the world. The McDonald Brothers certainly deserve credit where credit is due but they don't deserve all the credit. No one would even know they never met Ray Kroc. By the way a lot of souls make a lot of money and create a lot of jobs in those businesses.

@paul.fusillo7262 yea alot of jobs in shipping poisen to fellow humans. Money is cool and he made alot but was it worth his soul? The brothers were still rich ,had more than enough to last their lifetime yea they couldve been richer but at what expense. Im just a believer in a legacy and krocs legact is he was a greedy man. Most innovative ideas were not his. So you cant even say hes a good businessman. Without henry he wouldve been bankrupt

@paul.fusillo7262 anyone couldve did what he did honestly. The brothers just wasnt as money hungry But you know what i will give kroc credit for being talentless ,not very bright yet became a multi millionaire he was desperate and got his family out of poverty. But to not give them their royalties was spiteful he was jealous and envious he didnt create mcdonalds and hated dick amd ray because they did.

@@lelelew2735 It is disappointing that you have such sustained for Successful People! The fact is "not anyone" could have built a business like he did! You are somehow unhappy with your life and feel it necessary to lash out at others! NO ONE has been as successful at building a restaurant franchise as Ray Kroc, "period"! The brothers "in real life tried to do it but were unsuccessful until Ray Kroc arrived. Ignorance and idealism never built anything but animosity and war. No one is a saint in the world. Not the brothers or Kroc. But, all of them built a Legacy and families that endure today!

How were they screwed?

@@doddsino they already had prior franchising agents. It’s not like Ray gave them a new idea. The only novel idea Ray had was to setup a separate corporation to hold all the land that franchisees were erecting their locations on. In other words, the only new idea was how to screw the brothers out of their business. The brothers invented the process for truly fast food. Ray was a thief.

The brothers didn't invent the "Speedy System", it existed prior at White Castle by at least 25 years. As far as having other franchises, all of them operated completely independently of San Bernardino, serving any products on their menu and purchasing their products from any local merchants at the cheapest level possible. The brothers were aware of the real estate aspect of McDonald's, because they had to sign off on it. Keep in mind, any changes that Kroc made were to be signed over by BOTH brothers, no matter how insignificant. Not only that, the brothers were rather aloof and didn't care to sign any documentation a lot of the time, only doing so because of Kroc. Furthermore, multiple franchises had already come and ripped off McDonald's prior to Kroc's introduction, since the brothers were always eager to show off their "Speedy System". A couple of guys who got the grand tour went back home to Florida and started their own joint that would evolve into Burger King. Kroc on the other hand was quick to protect the brand, especially when their own franchisees tried to pull a fast one by stealing their exact model of business and starting their own chain called Sandy's. Kroc wanted to sue, but the brothers acted like it wasn't a big deal. Keep in mind that Sandy's would grow into a pretty major competitive chain until the 1970's, and could have gone further had Kroc not stuck to his guns. At the end of the day, had it not been for Kroc, I very much doubt that McDonald's survives past the 1960's. The brothers weren't interested in maintaining any responsibility for their business outside of their own San Bernardino location. The other franchisees were going to likely sell once some big chain like Hardee's would come along and started gobbling up small local chains. Any other franchising agent would have not been up to the task that Kroc had brought it to.