The Riddle of Robb's Will 

You mentioned wording and, to add to that, Jon getting out of his vows could simply come down to a loophole about his name. Jon Snow took those vows, yes, but Jon Stark or Jaehaerys Targaryen didn't. This is a more valid argument in the Targaryen name because then Jon would have unknowingly took those vows under a false name. Jon Snow never existed, he was a fabrication created by Ned.

Howland Reed certainly knows Jojen has survived Winterfell, because Jojen knows the day he dies. It’s highly doubtful Howland sent Jojen and Meera without full knowledge of Jojen’s dreams.

One thought I had is that they could revoke a noble-born's night's watch vows if he is the last member of a house to prevent the instability of a house going extinct.

It’s often struck me how different things might’ve gone if Catelyn hadn’t insisted Jon left Winterfell when Ned did. If Jon had marched south beside Robb, it would likely have been him beside Robb, not Theon. Jon saw straight through Theon so may have dissuaded Robb from sending him home. As King, Robb could’ve removed the taint of bastardy and made him a Stark for acts of courage. I know, it’s a different story…roads not travelled. Just can’t help but think Robb and Jon would’ve done really well as a team.

After seeing Cersei ripping legal docs… I get worried lol.

Sean had it write, not Aziz. “Not unless he’s legitimized by a royal decree,” said Robb. “There is more precedent for that than for releasing a Sworn Brother from his oath.” Legitimization is the one with precedent, not releasing someone from NW vows.

It makes the most sense that Robb would have named Jon since he's the only person in his direct bloodline (Stark) whose location he's certain of when he writes the will. Why would he name anyone else? He thinks his other siblings are dead or being held hostage. And he's not naming his mother because she's not a northerner. I can't see why he would name anyone else.

GRRM: “I thought it was too easy for Gandalf to die and then just come back more powerful. He really should have had some scars and bad skin.”

I think the precedent for leaving the Watch would be swearing your oath under a false name, unknowingly🤷🏻‍♀️ Like- how is a lord supposed to keep a couple spares stashed out of the line of fire to keep your line alive- have the kid sent to the wall as a Snow

Robb asks the ship captan that brings him the news from the Iron Islands to wait outside of the meeting about the will. He says he has something for him, like a reward. Maybe Robb send the will to Castle Black. It lets Jon and them know Robb’s wishes. It may have the most value being at the wall with Jon.

Loved this discussion. And I loved to hear Sean point out that it's a puzzle so intricate that's no wonder it's taking time

You guys contradict yourselfs in the same sentence: resurrected people,Catelyn,Beric,Mountain…they are doing same thing doing just before they die: beric-justice,Cat-revenge on Freys and Boltons,Mountain duel whoever for Cersei… also Jon was stabbed just before he go south to fight the Boltons …

1:04:01 i feel like word of Bran might’ve spread around the upper echelons of the hill clan. the same people who are currently with Stannis…. which makes for an interesting scenario involving the Manderlys. if the night lamp theory is correct and the Manderlys betray the Freys and join with Stannis, they’ll have a chance to talk to the hill clans. since the Manderlys know of Rickon and the hill clans know of Bran, they can probably convince Stannis that both boys are still alive. two geographically separate factions have the same corroborating info. i feel like this will come into play within the book. ETA: also i COMPLETELY forgot about the Theon factor! Theon’s there too. assuming he doesn’t die at some point during the battle (which is a very large possibility), he can straight up admit that he didn’t kill the boys. i think this situation is highly likely. you have two factions claiming to know Bran and Rickon are alive along with the alleged murderer at or approaching the same location. there’s gotta be a comparison of notes at some point i think.

This is one of my favorite questions when it comes to ASOIAF because it touches so many topics that are also relevant to my life as a lawyer -- precedent, jurisdiction, inheritance.. And of course that is why George does not give us the exact wording of the will. It would be eas(ier) to ponder this question if we actually have the wording, and when it was signed versus when certain information would have been common knowledge, but alas...

Lady Stoneheart know by now that Arya is alive and may work to thwart the Will and find her.

If Robb was doing sums, he was doing alphabets.

Can't recommend "The Expanse" enough. One of the authors, Ty frank worked for grrm for a bit. The expanse came from an rpg game a group of friends made for themselves. The authors and grrm played it together where George was a dwarf space miner. 8th book is also my favorite. Show and books are great.

Amazing stream 👏🏻

1:13:48 if i’m not mistaken, Aemon was offered a pardon from the watch but rejected it. interestingly, his situation paralleled Jon’s. there was a question of Targaryen succession, and Aemon was offered the throne. Aemon being Aemon opted to stay with the watch, but i can imagine this choice being offered to Jon in winds…. he can uphold his vows, or decide to become king in the north.

What if the legitimisation of someone is the precedent for being let out of the vows? Technically Jon Snow would be "dead" when he is legitimised and becomes Jon Stark. More likely it is someone lacked an heir and the king at the time gave permission for their closest living relative to be let out of their vows to carry on the line and keep stability in that region.

Wow. I think actually nothing was posited or speculated in this discussion. It passed the time, but zero was gained here.

Really looking forward to this chat. 5:14

How did Lady Stoneheart came to know that Arya is alive? I mean She is looking for Arya in Riverllanda amongst orphans but how does she know that Arya is alive?

Watching the back half of the episode and in 1:47:37, I think Sean is a bit unfair in saying Ned was "caught up in honor" versus Cat who's "caught up in family." Because Ned did dishonorable things-- with Jon and Lyanna which to the outside view was being with another woman and having a son while married to Cat but in reality was him lying to his king and entire family; and then again by declaring Joffrey rightful king despite knowing his illegitimacy-- all for the love of his sister and his daughters. I wouldn't call that putting honor over family.

The closest thing we have to a member of the nightswatch being freed from their vow is maester Aemond. During the succession crisis that led to Aegon the unlikely's coronation.

Yes, The Expanse!!! The show is one of the best, for sure. And I’m with Ashaya-book 8 is also my favorite. And the show landed an ending with season 6, and the books landed an ending, plus a really satisfying coda (the novella Sins of our Fathers).

George himself has said we don't know who Robb named in the will. It's a mystery and I highly doubt the answer to this mystery is that it's Jon Snow.

Wouldn't the will be safest with Ned's most trusted vassal at a moving keep that's impossible to find? Howland wouldn't need to carry it on him heading into battle, just be able to present it when necessary.

Of course, Jon can't be crowned if he's dead. Being formerly dead, however, isn't likely to be an exclusion condition on inheritance :)

I thought the Little that they met was the man Ygritte killed at the lake ?

Jon is aware of the Red Wedding. I’m not sure how he originally learned about it without going back through all of Jon’s chapters that occur after the Red Wedding. But when Stannis is offering to legitimize Jon Snow and make him Lord of Winterfell, Stannis references Robb’s death. And Jon doesn’t act as if this is new information. On top of that there is the imagery that Jon experiences in his dreams that is definitely related to the Red Wedding and Robb being dead. I was surprised to hear Aziz mention that he didn’t know if Jon knew about the Red Wedding. Though I must admit that I can’t reference how he first learned about it.

It's really weird that people believe Jon Snow being named in the will is a fact.

I've said this before. All of you guys that make content about asoiaf need to get together and write the last two books. I REALLY doubt that doing this is even on George's mind anymore...

My comments froze during livestream..but did anyone consider catelyn as robbs heir?! She is lseen fingering the crown and pondering....

Jeyne Westerling’s grandmother was Maggi the Frog. The Westerlings would know Cersei’s prophecy and could guess the effects upon Lannister power. Jeyne is pregnant with Robs child just to complicate Robb’s will ultimately becoming Lord of Winterfell Sansa becoming a reagent lady of Winterfell like Cersei except morally more correct.

Not my original idea but i believe its Cat who Robb names. Robbs kingdom isnt just the north but also the Riverlands he needs someone to tie both together. She has noted she could still have children and Robb seems to be preparing to marry her to Jason Maylister. Finally she has her own heir in her brother who was about to marry and would be expected to have children. Cat also notes that she hopes the trap Robb sets for the ironborn is as good as the one he set her which doesn't make masses of sense unless he did something in that will that she was trapped into. He could well have threatened her with Jon so that when he named her she was stuck with it

I understand why the average theorist thinks Jon was named the heir. But you brought up the biggest elephant in the room question. Why would nothing of this have made it to Jon? Fundamentally I think the issue is that reads want.a clear answer. However, I don't think the will says what most think. Robb was in a tough position. What he wants is to avoid chaos and conflict within his own kingdom. His wife could have gotten pregnant, he doesn't know. Even to the point Jaime shows up there was still a worry she might. Robb isn't planning to die. He knows where all the potential heir are now, but not where they might be when he does. He needs to leave behind a singular answer to who his heir is. How do you do that? You don't name an heir. You name a heirmaker. Catelyn was sent to Seaguard to be secured because she's his heirmaker. Someone all the Lords could expect to know what Ned and Robb would do. What about the arguement? The arguement was because Robb wanted to impress upon her that any heir considered had to he a child of Ned. Without that she'd be tempted to look for heirs in the Vale. The tricky bit. The will probably legitimizes Jon. It doesn't make him the heir explicitly, it allows him to be the heir. There's no point disinheriting his sisters and potential son when a son might exist or his sisters recovered. Naming his mother gives him the ability to leave behind a clear heir without disqualifying a better one based on what the ground looked like in the moment. Why is Cat back? Why is she working so hard to reach a daughter rather than hire someone to get her to Jon? She's avoiding it like greyscale because she wants someone else. Why has no one else gone to Jon? Because the will names Cat and they think she's dead. Because they think his heirmaker is gone forever they're all trying to take her place to make their own heir. If it named Jon they'd all be trying to kill him to invalidate it. They don't even consider it, because they aren't worried about it.

Keep doing a great job you guys, one of my favorite shows for years now…absurd to think it’s been so many years and we still don’t have new books but that’s okay 🥲