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I main Orcane and when I first got into the character I thought his recovery was garbage. Now, having played the game for a fairly significant amount of time it's amazing all the recovery routes I can take with the character. I have fun simply figuring out how I am going to return to stage while taking into account my opponents position and habits. Perhaps I'll side b into wall-jump > airdodge > bair. Or maybe if I'm higher and facing to stage, reverse special > fair stall > fair extension > empty teleport. Honestly there's a lot more options and thats not even taking into account timing mixups. I remember watching Leffen stream games and he barely even understood any of the mechanics of RoA before dismissing it. He just picked Sylvanos and was sour spotting bair constantly. I think he said it "was like a flash game". The only thing I agreed with him on was sound on teching and now that has been addded into the game.
This is not to mention that most stages have platforms that are accessible while recovering. Especially when RoA's DI is so flexible compared to other smashlikes. So in a lot of cases, that's twice as many options. Characters don't have giant hitboxes that cover the whole platform in most cases, so they have to make a decision what part of the platform to cover in addition to when and whether to cover it.
I don't think ledges are lame, but i think that not being able to grab ledge because someone is already on it is kinda wacky as fuck. ROA's solution was to remove ledges and to add more options to comeback anyway. So ROA to me wins on recovery.
I personally don't like his picky opinions. I remember when he was picky of many supers being "the same kamehamehas" when he reviews DBFZ. Even saying that Brawlhalla's artstyle looks like a flash game If he's judging the same from it's artstyle, why not Melee's then. Melee's artstyle doesn't look that bad but it's pretty old if we're looking at today's date which is what I can say.
@@fredv7349 I never cared about leffen's opinion and no one should. Sure, he is a very good player, but acts all for himself it feels like most of the time.
“If he's judging the same from it's artstyle, why not Melee's then. Melee's artstyle doesn't look that bad but it's pretty old if we're looking at today's date which is what I can say” It’s visual style still looks great, the character designs are usually great, stages look amazing, and the color pallets are striking and memorable. This is the kind of stuff people actually care about in their games.
Having only started playing Rivals when it came to Switch, i never thought the recovery system lacked depth. Heck i tend to forget you can actually do things out of a free-fall(which is godlike btw) and that directional airdodging is not worthless in this game. I definitely need to get better at recognizing my options offstage and this vid helps a lot
@@raw-b6658 you can only do a wall jump out of free fall. But the wall jump can lead into a lot more options. So technically you can only do one thing out of free-fall
I really hope you continue to go the route of being the "SSBM tutorials" channel for rivals. The community needs stuff like that. Love your recent content. Also, your outro rap is really fun.
I agree, there’s not enough education available on RU-vid for this game, only place you can find info to learn is through discord servers which in their own right are kind of difficult to locate sometimes
I totally agree with the points made in your video. Been a long time fan of the smash bros series but have been enjoying the feel of rivals way more for a couple years now. One thing I'm still not sure on is the fact that it doesn't have grabs. I totally love that it doesn't have shields and that you have to be precise when you want to be defensive with a parry. But for some reason I've always liked the breakup of how the match feels with grabs in the mix. Combos are such a cool way to show your personality and write a story all at once. Because of this I've watch tons and tons of compilations of mostly melee combos and it amazes me how many iconic and we'll known combos there are out there. My question is do u feel like rivals has those type of combos? I'm not saying it doesn't by any means because I def have seen some amazing combos. I'm just wondering if grabs or some other ways to slightly slow down gameplay even for just a few short seconds can add that epic feel that keeps making me want to watch melee combo videos. Love the game and love your content man. Keep it up!
Yeah rivals definitely has some iconic combos like zetter fair~dair Ranno dart~fair Absa uptilt~up air Sylvanos side B~Up strong Shovel knight dair~ upb Etc. All these combos are pretty well known in the community and once the audience sees the first move they have an idea of whats coming next
Just subbed, you’ve convinced me. I’m an aspiring forsburn player, learning a lot through your vids that I had no idea about and i think with practice I’ll be able to start implementing it into soon! Sadly I’m trying to finish up school right now so I’m more focused on that but once I’m done the rivals grind begins cuz I wanna feel like a super saiyan when I play this game
Rivals just deemphasized the importance of bad positioning for more neutral options so it’s a lot more read heavy than melee and I think that’s really cool because neutral is dope
@@NinjarioPicmin It's just odd because the tutorials can focus on really minute details sometimes. Like, Zetter's gatling combo gets a tutorial, but not the basic functions of his down B?
FR tho, who still says Zetter has one of the worst recoveries? At this point I'd say it's probably like Fors worst, and then a small step up to Maypul/Orcane.
@@lddestroier814 U wrong, Clairen's ledgedash is game is insane. You basically can't stand right on the ledge because if you get hit by her up b at any point, she recovers for free, you can't reliably parry it on reaction and she can mix up the timing really easily.
@@TurtleKnite Oh okay, I only thought her recovery was crap because I play as Elliana and therefore don't have to worry about the timing of her up-special. It's super hard for an off-stage clairen to handle missiles
I’m pretty noob but I always thought etalus had the worst one since it doesn’t have a hit box except right below him so it’s easy to interrupt, I thought Ford was pretty good just hard to learn but once again I’m big noob so I’m most likely wrong I just like to share my opinion
Leffen is partially correct imo. Yes rivals loses some recovery depth because of the lack of ledges but gains a lot of depth by the many recovery mix ups all the characters have
Yeah, but we are comparing melee to rival when he say rival lacks depth for the lack of ledges. Melee has less depth than roa in term of recovery: let's be honest. People simply dive in cliff or side b to leave the screen just because they know they can't come back at all. when the opponent can just grab the ledge to make you fall down hopelessly, you know there's not much you can do. When ever you try to comeback on stage in melee which is the only option a lot of time, you gonna get smack again and again unless you are ''in most odds'' lucky. In ROA tho, your chances of coming back on stage with all the mix-ups you have and wall-jump to reset up special, air dodge, your chance of coming back is favourable as fuck.
I used to play some competitive melee, and that scene is weirdly dogmatic as hell. For example, whenever they ask the question of who is the GOAT, it's taken for granted that it will be a conversation about whether it's Mango or Armada, completely ignoring the fact that Hungrybox has outperformed Mango over the courses of their careers, but Mango is a fan favorite and Hungrybox is unpopular in the scene. Though Mango has been outperforming Hbox recently, this was still the case all through 2017-2019 when Hbox was utterly dominating Mango. Rivals is clearly the superior designed game, IMO, but they'll never acknowledge that, because they know what they know, regardless of objectivity, as evidenced by my previous example.
While I don’t want to kill the vibe, I just wanna ask something. If the RoA characters had more normal recoveries, and not these: make a platform offstage, teleport to the puddle, quintuple jumps; would you still think the recovery system still had more depth than normal Smash? Like say you played one of those Mario or Foxes from the workshop. Does the depth still hold up?
Yeah it does. Even the basic act of coming off the wall has at least as much depth as Ultimate ledgetrapping. They're very comparable, but RoA's is slightly more liquid because the mixups are timing based as opposed to solely option based, ie: instead of "Which option are they picking" you're also considering "When are they picking that option"
