Indeed, they were protectors of the galaxy and servers of the (lightside) force But in their effort to stay "true to their beliefs" they all centered themselves to corosaunt and abandoned many other temples to protect the republic and serve the senate.
@@Spartan3D213The Jedi were once an independent force, a different faction from the Republic. Yes this made them refuse to be involved in things like the Mando wars but it worked much better then the order that was the Republics slaves.
"I dreamt that I would single-handedly defeat the dark side, that I would make a difference, change the galaxy… the galaxy, however, has changed me." Lord Hoth "There is no shame in falling. There is only shame if you refuse to rise once again." Master Pernicar
I have always loved how the major Sith Lords of the New Sith era, despite being arguably much weaker on the power scale than the major Sith Lords of the Old Sith era, got so much closer to victory because of how they were organized. The New Sith and True Sith Empire under Darth Marr are really good indicators of just how successful the Sith could be when they banded together and established a real functioning order. In doing so, they somewhat sacrificed what it really means to be Sith, but they still succeeded. It showcases well how the Sith in their purest form could never succeed, and how to truly win they had to either become more of a dark Jedi Order or play the long game like Bane did.
It's funny how Bane's idealism essentially doomed the Sith. As far as I know, he was responsible for the destruction of the Sith Fleet. Without their destruction, Kaan would've destroyed Hoth's Army and Farfalla probably wouldn't have been able to defend the Core with the remnants of the Army of Light. The Sith would've won the war. Bane may have said that he believed that the Republic can't be defeated in war, but in reality he was just obsessed with the Prophecy of the Sith'ari. To an extent he didn't even follow his own rules. Yes, he had only one apprentice, but he wasn't willing to admit defeat when it was inevitable. Instead of allowing Zannah to overcome him and become the new master, he wanted to become immortal by taking her body wihout teaching Zannah the ancient Sith secret of essence transfer. Imagine what would've been possible, if he had shared it with her. They had the perfect weapon to infiltrate the Jedi Order. Darth Sidious was extremely dangerous in his position as Supreme Chancellor. Now imagine how dangerous he would've been as the Jedi Grandmaster. There would be no Luke Skywalker to save the day, since a thousand years are more than enough time to corrupt the Order and destroy the knowledge of how to be good. The galaxy was already filled with morally bankrupt people and sometimes the Jedi were the last bastion of the Light Side. With the Jedi being formed into a secret Sith Order, the knowledge of how to be a good person would've been lost. Even if this knowledge survived within small groups, these groups would've been too weak to stop the rule of the Empire. Another important flaw was the believe that his successors would honor his rule. He was nothing short of insane, if he truly believed that the Sith would follow rules and laws. They are Sith after all and their ultimate goal is an unnatural degree of freedom. Binding themselves to a rule contradicts their philosophy.
Every chancellor and grandmaster being sith, corrupting and twisting them both until the time was right. Then plunging the galaxy into total war in order to seize ultimate power and create their empire.
You seem to miss on crucial thing about the Sith Training method: they DON'T just lie down and accept defeat. That is the whole point of Sith doctrine and ideology. The Rule of Two was basically to streamline it into a method that avoids civil war. The Sith after him up until Plagueis and Sidious followed it because IT WORKED; the whole point of it was defeating the Republic and Jedi using their own weaknesses and incompetences from the shadows. Of course Bane isn't just gonna accept defeat and allow Zannah to overcome him. The whole point is of her surpassing him despite all his efforts and whatever obstacles on her path. BTW, Zannah KNEW the secret of Essence Transfer. Every Banite Sith up until Darth Gravid the Retard knew it, which was another danger the Sith Apprentices were supposed to surpass. And it's implied that most of them DID. As for your "Soul-hopping Sith Infiltrator" plan. It's good, but there's only one big problem with it: *_The Jedi are the most self-righteous obsessive-compulsive naggers in Star Wars Verse._* Just see what happened to Xandor, Ajunta Pall's Exiles, Freedon Nadd, Exar Kun, Revan & Malak, Kreia, Bastila Shan and her descendants. Unorthodox Jedi, even the more passive ones like Qui-Gon Jinn, are never allowed high positions of power and influence because the Jedi are dogmatic assholes that despise any kind of change. A Sith infiltrating the Jedi in hopes of becoming Jedi Grandmaster might not be found out, but they would NEVER achieve that goal because of how paranoiac hidebound the Jedi Council is. Also, corrupting Jedi doesn't make it impossible for there to be "good people" in the galaxy. Your understanding how SW Galaxy works is VERY flawed, pal.
@@DeathMessenger1988 Essence transfer into the grandmaster, then transfer to each subsuquent grandmaster. Besides, the goal is to corrupt them slowly over time, perhaps a more intentional version of what actually happened: lazy and dogmatic to the point of missing their entire purpose in favor of serving the republic over the force. Especially if they waited a couple of centuriees for the jedi to get complacent and believe the sith were extinct. It wouldn't be the first time. There's a series of journal entires from SWTOR where master gnost-dural talks about the build up to the war that includes mention of a sith infiltrator that became a jedi master.
@@kingofhearts3185 Once again, easier said than done. Jedi bureaucracy and dogmatic mentality are too insufferable even for Sith cunning. Has any Sith infiltrator across Star Wars media ever gotten close to the title of Jedi Grandmaster? No, and there's a reason for that. Take a look at what happened to Count Dooku. He SHOULD have become member of the Jedi Council due to his skill and wisdom, but his criticisms of the Jedi and the Republic basically made him persona non grata for any political rank in the Jedi Order. Same thing happened to Arren Kae/Kreia/Darth Traya, Satele Shan's mother and basically every other Grey Jedi that ever walked the Order. I'll use another franchise to exemplify the problem: Assassin's Creed. In ACIII, Desmond Miles asks his father if the Assassins ever tried to infiltrate the Templars and subvert them from within, just like the Templars have done with them. William reveals yes, but that it never works. _"We either sent in people who were either too weak, and found themselves turned-or too strong, and were unable to carry out the charade."_ The Jedi and Sith are the same. While a Sith infiltrating the Jedi long enough to learn information and sabotage them on some way is possible (especially in times of galactic war, like SWTOR), it's far more difficult to rise into the ranks enough to directly subvert the Order from the Jedi Council. The Jedi Council are REALLY picky about who they select, and even the most cunning of Sith wouldn't have the patience to navigate the Jedi's bullshit for too long. It's not enough to simply fake a Light Side aura and preach the Jedi Code; a Sith would have to basically swallow their pride entirely and tolerate the worst things they hate most about the Jedi on a permanent daily basis without any hint of defiance or questioning. Imagine someone like Darth Bane or Zannah trying to act like Obi-Wan Kenobi or Satele Shan 24/7 without EVER slipping, all for gaining the position of Jedi Grandmaster while also trying to make it too obvious that they want it (cause yeah, Jedi are also whiny bitches when it comes to personal ambitions, even Jedi-oriented ones). The Jedi, on their end, adamantly refuse any notion of infiltrating the Sith. Ulic Qel-Droma tried that, and got instantly honey-potted by Aleema Keto. Jedi are trained to suppress their emotions and submit to the Code; most of them fold easily when presented with Sith freedoms and temptations, or get tortured into giving in to anger like Bastila did. It would take someone already pretty Dark-natured to successfully infiltrate the Sith, and the Jedi don't usually recruit those.
@@DeathMessenger1988 Quinlin Vos infiltrated Dooku's inner circle during the war. It was a struggle, but he could do it. As for sith amoung the jedi, the swtor video I mentioned had 3 generations of sith infiltrators a century before the war with the sith empire. His cover was blown by the ghost of an ancient sith lord, and even that was only realized when gnost-dural looked through the archives with hindsight. That's long enough to try to ambush and essence transfer into the current grandmaster, especially if the jedi believed the sith were gone.
I preferred Lord Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness here. It is basically a form of evolution for the Sith while also trying to remain the same as well. And while Darth Bane's way of running the Sith did function well until Darth Sidious came along, the victory is not permanent. If it's the Brotherhood of Darkness, it is definitely going to lasted longer than a few decades in the aftermath of the Clones Wars because there will be numerous Sith running around under the Dark Council and these lesser Sith will be more about fighting each other to obtain the seats on the Dark Council. But when they do, they cannot turned against the fellow members of the Dark Council because Lord Kaan decreed everyone on the Dark Council to be each other's equals. Plus, I love equality. It is one of the few best things in this world.
In the end, Bane's delusions of grandeur in the form of his obsessing over the Sith'ari prophecy would put the Sith in their most vulnerable position for a thousand years, and outright destruction at Endor.
The brotherhood of darkness was barely held together by kon’s force aided Charisma , the moment he wouldve died the self absorbed nature of the sith would immediately lead to enormous and relentless infighting which during the war against the Jedi would simply lead to they’re doom . And from can be observed the brotherhood made it a point to not educate them selves in the history nor teaching of previous sith masters which put in layman’s terms made them a bunch of scrubs. The point of the dark side was individualism but by consolidating the members in a soup of mediocrity in a idea of greater good they just became a weaker version of Jedi
Why only one more episode? Geetsly’s you gotta cover Darth Krayt’s One Sith. That’s at least another 10 minute video or two. Krayt was the final iteration of the Sith, learning from all that came before him, and his Sith Order was just as influential, and successful, as Bane’s Order was.
Overall, these warrior Jedi taking a more active, assertive interest in defending and leading the Galaxy against the chaotic Sith is what the Order needed Sometimes, you just gotta put your foot down, and proclaiming the restrictive dogma of some organizations (like the Jedi Council) as essentially harmfully inactive is the truth that needs to be said. Same situation that led Revan and his likeminded Knights to take a stand and face the Sith during their time
Revan's "stand" led to him compromising on the very ideals that he supposedly fought for, and he ended up joining the same organization that he supposedly opposed. You call what the Jedi did being inactive, but it can also be said that Revan had delusions of grandeur.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 In the end, Revan did fall, though him and Malek finding the Sith behind it all was also what played a part in that. Technically, the ideals he fought for and flaws since the start, the Jedi Order is now basically known for that. Flawed in many ways. Revan did his best to do what he could, and he did achieve much in his stand. But they couldn't have planned for the Endgame.
I think Darth Bane was the most sensible one. If I was in his position and learned a lot about Sith history like he did, I would’ve hated the Brotherhood of Darkness as he did. The only reason Bane’s Sith Order eventually fell was because of the utter megalomania of Palpatine and not knowing the Chosen One would be born about 1000 years later.
For a rogue group, this Army of Light sure doesn't feel as if they're maliciously covert as FreeSpace's Galactic Terran Intelligence, birthed from a masquerade group like the SCP mythos' Chaos Insurgency, elite as Battlezone's National Space Defense Force's "Black Dogs", and cold and shadowy like the magical girl now turned demon Homura Akemi.
Bane destroyed the sith. Even if he helped them hold on for another 1000 years. More sith teachings were lost, and fewer sith technique were created in that span then almost any other span of sith power. The sith stagnated and grew weak under the rule of two. Consolidation of the darkside is not its stranght. The darkside was a force for adaptation and growth, it needed to be spread wide and it required powerful enemy's to grow. Some times that enemy came from within, sometimes it came in the form of the galactic power player. But always the sith would improvise, adapt, and overcome. And for the most part the dark siders were kept in check by thier own, jedi not required.
Darth Bane: What do you get when you cross the Dark Side with a Sith Order that promotes fraternity and abandons its past? You get what you f**king deserve!
The Rule of Two was clearly the superior version of the Sith, because they did what no sith had done before; win. And it didn't destroy the galaxy in the process, no, the Two were insidious (ha), worming their way into the heart of the Republic, corrupting it from the inside out. When Palpatine declared the Empire, it was already one in all but name, and the Jedi never even noticed. They turned the Jedi's base of power against them, isolating them, making for easy prey.
I liked how the bnrotherhood was more organized and unified under one banner compared to some of the othe sith lords. Sure the teaching were different from the original sith but Kaan was trying to unify the sith together but prevent them becoming like sith of old with constant in fighting preventing that often would be their down fall
Remember that the Sith orders would be completely destroyed and later Jedi would fall and become Sith starting the order again. This happened after the original sith got wiped out and then freedom nad took over Onderon and later when Exar Kun fell and became a Sith. After their destruction you had Revan and Malak falling and after them you had Vitiate. After all of them got wiped out you had a Jedi falling and creating the new sith and eventually this led to the brotherhood of darkness which was also destroyed and then you had the order of two
Neither Bane nor Karan were right. Consider: if the Spirit of Marks Ragnos had not interrupted the duel between Naga Sadow and Ludo Kresh, then one would have killed the other and the Sith would have faced the threat on the Republic with a united front. The problem is not infighting. The problem is when such dominance struggles are not allowed to be resolved.
Hmm. Not sure if it was Drew Karpyshyn's mistake or someone else's, but for a while his Darth Bane trilogy was said to start in 1023bby (with the Thought Bomb being detonated in 1020bby along with the Ruusan Reformation later that year, and Bane's death in 1000bby) before it being changed (possibly changed back) to the Ruusan Reformation being 1000bby
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and during the last ten years of the new sith wars, both sides did exactly that with the brotherhood of the sith, being an reversed twisted version of the jedi and jedi lords aping sith warlords, although more geared towards protection and defence. Even though they had to eventually go with the old adage that the best defence is a good offense. Though, downfall of the sith, is that Kann ended up fixating on using all his forces to defeat hoth at ruusan to the detriment of everything else, becoming so desperate that hr could be tricked and manipulated into destroying himself by bane.
You should make a video about the possibility of the ancient from the Old Republic the meditation chamber sphere remember if it was Exar Koon or someone else but in the trailer for asokah you can definitely see when thrawn he's walking into a golden chamber that looks exactly like it
It wasn't a matter of the council having control issues. When the members start idolizing a member, they become more faithful to the person than the code. And when a member becomes more faithful to the person, they and the person being idolized are far more likelier to fall to the Dark Side. A person would think that ppl would've learned this lesson with Ajunta, Revna, and Darth Ruin.
I honestly think the sith being equal and working together to beat the jedi is better than the rule of two since killing your master just because you want to be strong is dumb plus so much sith knowledge lost when they did
On one hand, yes, you're not wrong. On the other hand, Kaan was basically Mind Tricking everyone into obeying him. This isn't an Improved Sith Order, this is the Jedi Council of the Dark Side. And it would only last so long Skere Kaan was alive. That's why Bane killed the Brotherhood; by that point, they could barely be considered true Sith Lords, and more like vaguely improved Dark Jedi AKA Diet Coke Sith. Barely any of the Brotherhood of Darkness could be compared to older Sith Lords like Karness Muur, Freedon Nadd, Exar Kun, Darth Revan, the Sith Triumvirate or anyone in the True Sith Empire. Bane's declaration that the Dark Side was "diluted" was correct, but mainly because Kaan cared more about having an army of brainwashed Dark Siders than having an army of true Sith Lords. If he truly cared about equality, the title of "Darth" would be universal among the Sith. They'd be equal in power and might. Making everyone equal by making everyone equally weak and passive is the way of Commu-, I mean, the Jedi.
Both. Mostly Bane. Bane's way works if you're trying for a totalitarian organization in which individual members are encouraged, expected and required to seek persomal power and authority just to survive. Kaan's, however you spell his name, way can work. IF modified. Much closer to that of the Jedi order during the Clone Wars but devoted exclusively to serving a more powerful organization. Say a Dark Side version of the Jedi worshipping and serving the Sith excusively. Beyond that it wouldn't work.
I mostly agree with Darth Bane but Kaan did have was half right and half wrong about the “Darth” Title it amplifies the already natural infighting the Sith have so let continue or die make little differences for there are powerful Sith that did not use title
Yeah know if we ever get a live-action take of the War between the Army of Light and the Brotherhood of Darkness. I think Arnold Swartzenneger would make a great Lord Hoth. Hearing the famous Jedi Lord speak with a German accent would be awesome. I think he could pull it off.
Who would play Valenthine? Would have to be a handsome actor capable of pulling off some really flamboyant characteristics but still have an aura of respectability and wisdom.
Damn when the mandalorians attacked the council did nothing one of their stepped up to save others and then took alot of jedi with him then the council wants to arrest them Revan wins a war saves the republic and the council wants him to stand for judgment when they sat in their chairs and did nothing. Then they take a unconscious man probed his mind without his consent and erased his mind and put him under the supervision of a very attractive woman who likes what she's looking at who is a padawan mind you one of like 2 people at the time who know what battle meditation is and is probably their other best hope to beat the sith out on a quest just for revan to win and then get told that he is the problem by the council. Then a mask eats an entire fucking planet of force energy and the council runs and hides while some woman they banished come to the rescue needs their help to defeat the sith and they decide to cut her ability to force off why didn't they do that to the mask hes just a force spirit damn the council is dumb as hell
I’d love to see stories during the time of the Jedi feudal lords. Could you imagine a Jedi shadow / lord with a bunch of padawan in his castle operating similar to a medieval knight order
@@FastTquick Right? It’s ripe for TTRPG or even an interesting video game. Not everything has to be against the empire. Seeing an the New Sith Wars would be cool. Or maybe the ancient republic during the expansionist era? Discovering “new” planets and species and witnessing the establishment of the Republic.
@@PeterReid1993 Here are a few ideas I could share if you’re thinking of making a campaign. If the setting takes place after the Battle of Mizra, I can imagine the settings of several Outer Rim planets being violent places falling to anarchy as the Galactic Republic loses control of these regions and Sith or criminal factions take over. Or if your campaign starts in one of these “Jedi Kingdoms” you could task your PCs with fighting a Sith or pirate incursion as the start of their adventure.
Sadly the Jedi Lords were a necessary change that the Jedi Order had to do to maintain order in the Galaxy in the face of the endless onslaught of the New Sith and their unending horrors, and frankly anyone fighting for one thousand years will breed strong and ruthless warriors on both sides of any conflict.
I don't know if the Army Of Light "Stomped Out" the Brotherhood Of Darkness. Lord Khan and the Brotherhood Of Darkness were winning their fair share of battles, and if it wasn't for Dessel sending the bogus orders to the Sith that were holding the blockade, they would have won.
If Umbara was Space Vietnam, then Rusan was Space Gettysburg. Also I agree with Bane but the only weakness of the Rule of Two is how faithfully it’s kept🤔
The council hated the Jedi Lords as it was jealous. The Lords didn't blindly bow down to council orders and had been the heroes which the council couldn't be. Guess history repeats itself in the SW galxy as well - I get strong Atris vibes from how the council acted towards the Jedi Lords.
Screw the council. Lord Hoth's strategies and tactics were showing results. His military forces retook worlds that were under Sith control. After Hoth's sacrifice to destroy the darkside, the council refuse to built monument as a tribute for his service.
Kaan actually had the better idea, for all the Sith's talk about wanting power and to rule, they never understood one important aspect of ruling, you need people who are actually loyal and have some degree of cooperation in order to maintain you're power base otherwise it will all collapse on itself as everyone turns on each other. Sith ideology is counterproductive to ruling an empire, despite that being one of the end goals of the Sith to rule. However, Bane's ideology did have one improvement, he knew no army of Sith could ever beat Jedi because even a sorry excuse for a Sith Oorder like the Brotherhood, still would have some dark side tendencies that make the army impossible to fully work together, whereas Jedi and their allies can work together well, so instead of playing a game he knew the Jedi would win he started playing a different game with the Rule of 2 to play to the strength of the Sith to finally get the W the Sith had been trying for thousands of years.
@@zexalbrony4799 The Army of Light, though they really should have been a far more covert and, for lack of a better adjective, glamorous elite task force in their so-called rogue dealings, as I've said on a comment of mine somewhere here that is laced with references to FreeSpace: Silent Threat Reborn, the SCP Foundation, Battlezone 1998 and II: Combat Commander, and good old Puella Magi Madoka Magica.
@@michaelandreipalon359 Well, to be fair, they are an army. An army by definition isn't really covert as it's meant to fight big battles, a small squad or division is more likely and meant to be covert, not an entire army. Also, wow, and here I thought I liked to make references, but I may have met my match in you. LOL.
Bane was, frankly, an idiot. Banes entire ideology was based around finally destroying the jedi for good, not preserving the Sith. Bane wanted to end the infighting, but for the goal of the jedis destruction. Kaan was focused on perfecting the Sith, making their ideology into one that could spread easier, last longer, and thrive. Kaan perfected the Sith, Bane perfected the same blind hate against the jedi that the jedi perfected against the sith, a hate that destroyed both jedi and sith.
Wait you said last episode. Douse that mean your not going to do the rain of palatine, post Endorse, Exar king, the dark lady of the sith lumiya , Jason solo fall, the list tribe of the sith, the One sith, your not doing any of that?.
