#shadowoftheerdtree #eldenring #lore a very light video to start off the DLC series, no major spoilers, just speculating on a few minor dungeons and their contents
@@TheHonoredMadman there’s an astronomical amount of content buried in the DLC. Everyone I go back through something while I’m backtracking for Scadutree fragments, I find something I missed.
Mohg had a more realistic vision for those rejected by the Erdtree, and a more honest one, even if it was still harsh, but what is harsh in an even harsher world?
You misunderstood! The Shamans are Marikas people. Marikas vilage was Shaman Village up north. The Hornsent oppressed them and used them to create the jar people. They have an affinity for attaching to other living things. The hornsent spirit at Bonny Village talks about how thats all Shaman are good for. The meat pile people that attack have Marikas symbol on their forehead and Marikas look. All this in lore btw.😢
It’s not actually Marika’s rune. At least not in isolation. It has both the upward curve but also the downward curve and the Norse maðr and yr runes superimposed on itself. Smoghtown has a high resolution shot of it in their recent video.
And that’s probably why all the empty jars are around minor erdtrees; Marika is trying to save the souls of her people from the jars to be reborn through her golden order
Right! I'm in the official Discord and I feel so amazing. While they were making fun of people for thinking Mohg was being mind controlled, saying it didn't make sense
Perhaps this is just my interpretation but I think this is the most major plot point of them all... The insides of the jars are Marika's people (villagers from the Hinterlands) before her apotheosis. The Hornscent are responsible for this and as a result, Marika understandably orders Messmer on a crusade against the Hornscent after she becomes a God. If you look at the people inside the jars, they have a forehead seal (a la Berserk) that matches Rada/ika's Soreseals. Messmer's Shadow Castle also has a triage area in the basement as though they tried to help Marika's people after their Jarification. It's possible to visit Marika's village in the top right area of the DLC and she's has left a lock of her hair and an incantation there. Retroactively, I can see why Marika was disgusted by the Omen twins and treated them horribly. The Hornscent aren't innocent.
doesnt justify imprisoning her children she was jus unhealed to that traumatic experience , kinda lucky morgott has (i think has holmes syndrome) and was a loyalists to the golden order and mohg wanted to create a new dynasty staying in the shadows
Im familiar with this theory and ill admit i hadnt noticed the seal, but i still cant find enough evidence that the shamans = neumans. But i havent read all the new item descriptions, not even close so its very possible i just havent come across the evidence i need yet
The omen cursed of marikas children most like comes from the empyrean grandam. She a hornsent that with horns. Whatever a way to piss off a vile strumpet who cooked ya people with her own children getting horns. It's probably way Marika locked them away under the city under the Erdtree
@@TheHonoredMadman Given that the village was explicitly stated as Marika's home and we know Marika is a numen, it's just putting 2 and 2 together imo.
SPOILERS AHEAD Marika was from the Shaman Village as confirmed by item descriptions and officials sources calling the Land of Shadow the place where Marika first set foot (thus making the Shamans part of the Numen as Marika is also a Numen, I'm guessing the Shamans are not the only Numen tho as they still exist in the current age despite an item description telling that the village was empty by the time Marika went back to bless it, making it seem like all the Shamans but her were killed), no wonder she went on to crusade against the hornsent and impose a purge on the omen in revenge for making jar abominations out of her people. Messmer also has hospital rooms in which it seems like the tried to cure the jar transformed shamans. The gates of divinity are used by both Marika and Miquella to ascend to godhood (as seen in the story trailer and the final boss cutscene respectively), but an interesting detail is that those gates are made out of a shitton of non horned bodies (we see it was flesh rather than stone in the trailer), so the hornsent probably created them through methods akin to how they made the jars, or maybe the jars are even a part of the process (explaining the "saint" thing). Why they made it? To ascend to godhood seems like the obvious answer, the tower also has a big Tower of Babel theme, fitting with it becoming their downfall as Marika, seduced by the two fingers, is the one who uses the gates against the hornsent by becoming a goddess.
@@kevexcellent oh crap, you are right, the map parts of the gate and Ener-Ilim architecture are unhorned, but they glued to the door a bunch of horned bodies, I wonder if the mix of unhorned and horned heads have a significance or the unhorned ones are like that just because of a lack of model detailing.
@@gabrieldehyrule yeah, i think it was just part of the hornsent’s natural culture to sacrifice people (willing or unwilling) to grow life. If you notice, Enir Ilm’s spiral towers are actually made up of the same bodies. Same as the trees found in the same area. So my thinking is that, Hornsent genociding Marika’s people wasn’t personal. They just commit these terrible acts as a cultural practice, and portray the sacrifices as being “saints”
@@gabrieldehyrule I went back and took a good long look at it. It appears there's different layers of corpses made into it. There is an underlying layer that appears to be melded/grafted together flesh. The hornsent corpses look to be added later. Also, if you look at the top of the gate, you can see these long ropes/braids of something entangled with the corpses. There's clearly a lot of detail put into the design of this gate and coupled with the Marika scene, implies there absolutely is a mystery to be unraveled here. The secret rite being written on white bark makes me think Marika gained the knowledge, but allowed the hornsent to prepare the ritual, only for Marika to pull a fast one at the last second.
@@kevexcellentshe probably got close to high ranking hornsent officials to get that information before doing it, hence the "betrayal" that the hornsent mentions
@@TheHonoredMadmanyeah I have to agree with the other commenters. Firstly, the shaman village provides plenty of evidence. Secondly, the Hornsent are begging because all of the shaman jars contained a single living shaman and several cut up dead non-shaman criminals, presumably almost entirely Hornsent.
About the Lands Between jars; I had a theory after the second or third time I found Alexander trapped in a hole. What if the purpose of the jars in the lands between is to feed the Erdtree/minor erdtrees? Golden Order burial customs involve placing the dead in the Erdtree/Greattree roots, and the roots can be seen absorbing the bodies, and Miquella fed the Haligtree with his own blood, so clearly these trees grow from blood, viscera and perhaps souls. This could be why there's dozens of jars around many minor erdtrees, their roots may not go deep enough to be used for burial purposes so the jars feed them their contents directly. Alexander might subconsciously be digging himself into holes near an unsprouted erdtree seed.
The new gaols are interesting to compare to Marika's Land's Between because there are no fully formed gaol systems but there are Evergaols. When she took power, everyone who didn't want to be part of her order was murdered, and any individuals who committed crimes afterward were kept in containment, basically as they were, forever. Another example of obsessively trying to uphold some kind of status quo situation and an example of the stagnation that comes with it. Kind of understandable given what was done to her people. It's also an example of From's exceptional environmental storytelling because they actually use negative space to do it.
Eh, shamans weren’t heretical, the we’re just foreign, and the hornsent people didn’t have mercy for foreigners. But the “sage” youre are talking about is particularly heretical due to inheriting a demonic life source that can kill the souls that Hornsent pray for. Not spoiling who, I’m sure you know who, but the “sage” posses power that contradict the practices and beliefs of Hornsent. Sages aren’t heretical, but this particular sage is
The inards enemies are very similar to the grandmother inside the tree in marika village. I think that means all the jar are filled with shamans, the women only culture of young marika ( much like the black blades wich marika have ties to).
Keep ‘em coming! Your vid’s have easily become my favorite I love your level of laid back speculation. Also definitely do individual vids for each npc I feel like there’s a lot going on there for each of them. Moore seems very simple quest wise but I’d bet there’s something going between him, the kindred and the version of the rot we see in the dlc maybe even some connection to the mother of fingers because of his weird armor and shield but that’s pure speculation
I'm kind of disappointed you didn't talk about shaman village in this video, the implications of that area along with lore details with Bonny village is undoubtedly my favorite part of the DLC
I remember I found a cookbook item which indicated Bonny village was the origin of the jar practice. Also the use of the jars in the shadow realm as a sort of insane punishment seems quite different than in the lands-between, where they seem to be used as basically fertilizer and not made from prisoners seemingly. Alexander just gathers up remains from the battle of aeonia after all. POSSIBLE SPOILER: Someone mentioned a theory that Marika's people from the Shaman village in the Hinterlands were actually taken by the Hornsent and mashed into the jars and Marika was the sole survivor. That's why the minor erdtree incantation says she bathed the area in healing light despite knowing there was nobody left. If true it would explain a lot, like why she wanted the Hornsent wiped out in the first place and why she removed death from the Elden ring, as an effort to prevent the suffering she went through from ever happening again.
Joined ya for the Outro 🔥 Based video, I'm excited to play further into the DLC... it's so good! and the music is fantastic 🤩 I appreciate you taking it easy for now. I'm keen asf to talk abiut it too XD
I'm back to watching Madman's videos to get the full picture of the lore without playing the videogame, same as Elden Ring's original release. Good stuff.
One point that is interesting to me now is the difference between the potentates in the lands between and the lands of shadow. while in the lands of shadow the potentates are rough and gruel butchers in the lands between the jars demand a potentate with soft hands. Maybe that was something Marika invented, as someone with soft hands is clearly not violent.
So holup. Miquella seems way more complex to me than he’s just a bad guy. I think Miquella is the definition of “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”. I don’t want to spoil things for anyone so I won’t get into it… but I can be very very sympathetic towards him. The story for this DLC is heartbreaking.
i wanna know who at fromsoft came up with this jar concept and how they convinced everyone else to go along with it. they are so creepy but also goofy at the same time.
I wonder if Ensha was Trina's first consort? Going back at his armor, knowing Trina is the female aspect of Miquella, the gems on the bones matched the Haligtree Prayer windows in coloring.
Heck yeah awesome video I’m sad that it’s just a sound effect at the end instead of an actual rip. Nobody starts talking half a second after that fat of a rip without exhaling at all :(
Multiple videos. I’ve already beaten Messmer and gotten almost no real lore of what the hell is going on. Except chasing crosses that Miquella left. Edit: Ainsbach did mention Mohg got done dirty! Possibly wasn’t a Mohglester
I play the game on low volume sometimes and i have a habit of pronouncing things how they look. Leads to these types of situations. Force of habit honestly
4:41 That's because these innards were crafted from Shamans; Marika's ilk. For one reason or another, the denizens of the Land of Shadow began to target the Shamans for their jar ritual. Probably because Marika's original sin. A form of disgraceful attack was done against the Shaman hometown, which (ultimately) led Marika to send Messmer on the Crusade to exterminate as many as possible for what would be the wanton slaughter of her people. I feel this initial attack was due to the Original Sin of Marika doing something to upheave what would have been an Age of the Sun (aka Horned Fell God of Fire as depicted by the Furnace Icon). Note, I can't believe I never caught this until now...but there is _no sun_ in the Lands Between. None. You can't even select "sun" in the in-game message system. You can select Moon, Stars, Night, Day, etc...but no "sun". Even the Sunflowers face the Tree. The Horned Fell God, God of the Sun, who's totem animal was that of a Lion (considering the final endgame zone and the Divine Beast Dancing Lion boss and all the other Lion iconography). I think the story of Apollo and Crytie is best fitting for this. Crytie fell for Apollo (a sun god) but Apollo had eyes for another. Crytie called upon her father to bury this other woman alive. Apollo, outraged, cursed Crytie to be a sunflower and forever gaze at the sun. I think a very, very similar story plays out with Marika and her oldest rival; the Gloam Eyed Queen. The Sun God wanted the Queen, not Marika, and so Marika betrayed the Queen and caused the Sun to retreat forever from the Lands Between. I feel that is the best thing I can assume the Original Sin would be.
Hating the no spoiler children holding up all the lore uploads and indepth convos about the dlc while they can't wrap their heads around the new blessings because they can't be bothered to read a description
Dude you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about lol keep posting and you’ll get that $ tho doesn’t have to be good content just has to be content
Bro please make a video on Ymir and the fingerbeast I did the quest and have no clue wtf I fought lmao it’s a younger sister of the Elden beast or something
