If I remember correctly Godwyn isn't technically dead, just his soul. The night he was 'killed' Ranni was also killed, but instead of both of them dying for real her body died and soul lived on, whereas Godwyn's soul died and his body lived on. Thats why she can inhabit various puppets and he is stuck stuck.
@@TiakOSRS Indeed I should have clarified that I didn’t mean dead literally as his body is still present just like you said. I wanted to clarify the details about the faces in the DLC since I didn’t want people to assume Godwyn is alive and somehow made it here. Which is obviously not true.
Yeah. His soul is gone, and his corpse can't decompose and is instead on some form of mystic metastasis where is acting as a bunch of tumors growing across the Lands Between, and for the looks of it now branching into the Realm of Shadows.
that makes me wonder if Ranni caught word of miquella's plan and decided to sabotage him since she also wanted her own age (age of stars) if that's the case, then it makes me mad FS didn't allow us to have a miquella ending called "age of compassion" where we choose to ally with him and mend the elden ring with his rune
Oh yeah we do, dude died because we thought he was too gae for Miquella and was so weird. Turns out, Miquella was the real weird one and wants to marry his stepbrother Radahn, who Jarren specifically sends us to put to rest. Also, Mellenia deserved better, left all behind all broken and gone.
@@myankoZuluTango3613 Radahn is Miquella's half brother which makes it even worse, but yeah. However there is a such thing as a non-romantic consort in Elden Ring.
The DLC has changed my views of Miquella's curse of eternal youth from being one that focuses on his fate to never come to fruition and instead is simply a curse that keeps him as a child. As powerful and talented as he is, in my eyes Miquella has always had the mindset of a naive child. Instead of having his curse doom his endeavors to fail, its his childlike tendency to abandon a task in search of a new idea or plan that has been causing him to fail time and time again. Miquella failed to find a way to fully cure Malenia's Scarlet Rot, and instead moved on to the Haligtree as his next project when he got a temporary fix. His safe haven to the oppressed was left to wither and rot when he entered his cocoon to possibly free himself of his curse. Without any sign of looking back at the horrors he is doing by abandoning his projects and goals time and time again, Miquella fails to ever consider the true ramifications of his actions. The DLC makes this all the more clear. His plan to enter the Shadow Lands to become a god make his theft from the Haligtree into him abandoning it, leaving his followers to wait for him endlessly as the Scarlet Rot overtakes them. His desire to have Radahn be his Lord due to his kindness and strength comes off as a child idolizing an older brother, failing to see Radahn as his true self: a blood thirsty warrior who craved glory and battle endlessly. His journey through the Shadow Lands shows him walking a path that I truly do not believe Miquella understood the ramifications of. He abandons his core characteristics as a part of his ascension to godhood, not realizing that he will become "caged by divinity" as he naively condemns himself to being a puppet of the Greater Will or some other Outer God. Even his Age of Compassion is corrupted by his childlike view on the world. Instead of truly leading and changing the world, Miquella charms people into following him. And judging by his dialogue in the final fight, I don't think Miquella understands how brainwashing people into compassionate and kind people is no better than making them his puppets. Overall, I find Miquella to be a very interesting character: A godlike being with the naivety of a child.
This is such a good way to look at it, I always found the way miquella seemed to ignore the rammifications of his actions odd but when looking at it like this it makes perfect sense.
"failing to see Radahn as his true self: a blood thirsty warrior who craved glory and battle endlessly. " everything u said is correct and insightful except this part, which is objectively false and the games lore makes that very very clear. radahn was one of the kindest, he just lost his mind from scarlet rot and STILL had enough kindness in him to halt the stars and keep his horse, not to mention Gaius, and thats the entire point of miquella loving him. not a single piece of lore or story ever indicates radahn was ever blood thirsty or even bad, in fact, the dude had an entire festival dedicated to ending his misery, he was almost as idolized as godwyn, which im a bit disappointed about his lore content in ER dlc, it aint much and im mad at miquella for not even mentioning him...godwyn was quite loved too, his friendship with fortisax, several regions having statues of him, and the one that got me the most was the one in haligtree, where hes seen cradling his little sisters/brother malenia and maquila, that little fucker truly abandoned everything to get what he wants and in the end he died for nothing and his results barely ever benefitted anyone, not even himself. just a kind, naive and all powerful child surrounded by a cruel cruel world, cruel gods and worse of all, an endlessly cruel mother. and even marika herself left her last bits of kindness in the shaman village, this games lore man...it just hurts, and its the best lore fromsoft has ever done, my hats off to you fromsoft.
I think the whole idea of the Three Fingers is that, since the Two Fingers are representatives of Order, the Frenzied Flame takes the form of the Three Fingers to mock the Two Fingers and their order.
The question is if there is also a one finger? What would it represent? creation? Chaos? Or something else? I dont think if 2 and 3 have such a meaning that 1 wouldnt.
@@ExtremeBemoit’s hard to say because I’m not sure how Metyr fits into all of it. Before Metyr it seemed like we had somewhat of a clean explanation. Two and three fingers make one hand, when the one great split for whatever reason, we got the two and three fingers. One group as the servants of order the other chaos. But with Metyr we don’t have a clean explanation anymore. If anything, finger lore while more expansive, at least at the moment is also much more confusing. Somehow knowing less we understood more. Now that we know more we understand less. More than anything I’m waiting for this particular part of the story to be touched on by lore people.
personally i think that the fingers themselves are just vessels for whichever god is able to claim them. So metyr makes the fingers and kinda just lets them go, and a god uses them as communion, whichever one latches on first
There's a group of small but very vivid details that makes me convinced that Radahn, in fact, is highly opposed to Miquella's actions. Firstly - Radahn held back the stars which kept the fate of the empyreans. Doing so, it seems that he has stopped not only Ranni from acting but also blocked Miquella's actions that were meant to ascend him to godhood. That is, I believe, a reason for Malenia to strike at Radahn. He simply broke the vow and rejected Miquella. Secondly - it is stated that it was Miquella who saw a lord in Radahn. We don't get to see Radahn's response to that. It's simply implied that Miquella proposed something to his brother but we aren't told about his response. However, Malenia's actions are rather brutal and it seems dubious for Radahn to agree on blowing up the entire Caelid which was, in the end, the province that he had ruled. Moreover, if Radahn and Malenia agreed on having a duel, Radahn wouldn't have erupted with flames to stop the scarlet rot in his body. But he did erupted. Right, so also amidst the fight with Radahn in this DLC, he kneels down on the ground and erupts with fire. It's the same fire that he erupted during his fight with Malenia, which was later implied in Radahn's great rune that he did so in order to resist the encroachment of the scarlet rot. Who is Radahn resisting then? The player? But the Tarnished cannot charm anybody. So it seems that Radahn's resisting Miquella's charm or perhaps the mismatch between Radahn's soul and Mohg's body becomes apparent to him, therefore he wishes to reject it. Seconds later however, Miquella steps through the gate of divinity only to quell the eruption of fire in his brother's body. Radahn's resolve has been put back on place, he stands up and subsequently fights the Tarnished yet again. There's also another layer of lore to be found in regards to hornsent people as well as omens. So in the armors of hornsent warriors from Belurat it is implied that their horns serve the purpose of invoking the divinity. The true reason why Radahn must've died and his soul put into Mohg's body was because Mohg was an omen - therefore he was a hornsent. His body did not only serve the purpose of being merely a vessel. It was also used to invoke Miquella's divinity as he has stripped himself of everything human, thus making himself nothing but a transcendent spirit. Lastly, there are two other details that shed some light on the Radahn's opinion on his brother's actions. First off - the name of the boss itself is "Promised Consort Radahn". It's "promised", not just "consort". I believe it's a soft implication that there is some kind of coercion going on when it comes to Radahn's becoming Miquella's consort. For Radahn to act on his own volition in favor of Miquella's case, it'd be more logical to name him "Radahn, the Consort of Miquella". Now, another part is the soundtrack of this last bossfight. It's first phase is an inverted remix of the second phase of Starscourge bossfight from the base game. However, at one point you can clearly hear between 1:55 to 2:05 a false, disharmony in the choir, as if somebody just missed a few notes. This, I believe, points towards Radahn's true personality shedding the last tear of grievance at his miserable fate that has been brought upon him by his brother. Besides, there's a good reason for this boss to have the same leitmotiff as Starscourge, it's because Starscourge's second phase is a military elegy, a composition prepared to say goodbye, to honor somebody's death. But Radahn's not dead in the DLC yet he wished to be deceased. Freya says otherwise but she doesn't quote Radahn, she merely speaks in his stead as if she knew better. So in short guys - I know the boss is hard as hell but it's time to man up, pick up that Tragoth's hammer and put the poor man Radahn into eternal sleep that he wished.
Agreed, one hundred percent. The fact that Miquella can force people to love him seems to me to heavily imply that our boy Radahn is being brainwashed.
to me it's made pretty clear Radhan does not want to be Miquella consort. In addition to what you've said, -> there's the incantation Light of Miquella : "The strength of Miquella upon his deific return, wielded as an incantation. Annihilates foes with a pillar of light. Miquella sought to accept all that was and would be, but found one that refused to be embraced. No wonder, as one god, and one king consort, is all the world needs." => He found one that refused to be embraced, well it is Radhan I think, especially because you get this incantation by defeating him. It could be ourselves also, willing to be Elden Lord, but sounds weird to talk about the player directly in a spell/item. -> the way Miquella go on Radhan shoulders, as the lion on Godfrey shoulders. For FS it implies that the being on the shoulder will influences the holder abilities. Also it definetly looks like the devil whispering to its victim, full of fake promises. And it does not look like Lorian and Lothric since one of them was disabled, the reason here was clearly not to manipulate.
@@nikolai347I'm with ya except, we are the one who refused to be embraced. There is only room for 1 lord, me, and 1 God, most likely ranni going by player data lol.
whats heartbreaking about messmer is what he says in his cutscene, he literally cannot believe that after his mother locked him away and forsakes him she would allow a lowly tarnished who is fundamentally as graceless as him to become a lord and not him. Like what a slap in the face
I think more than anything he just want to return to the lands between, or at least hear a thing or two from Marika again, after who knows how many decades, if not centuries of lull. Instead he encountered a tarnished he thought being sent there to clean up the evidence judging by how the guidance of grace is pointing to him.
@@spearsagethe implications were never good, in his head either we were a cruel joke of a lord that he never got to be or sent by his own mother to get rid of the crusade evidence
To be the lord means to be the consort of Marika. Messmer is Marika's child so he knew that there is no way he can be the lord. He's just pissed at the fact that Marika ordered him to massacre all people who don't have grace in their eyes for pretty much eternally, yet in the end made a tarnished the lord.
@@CYC_JP I want to clarify what it means to be a lord. Placidusax was consort of the gloam eyed queen. To be more specific to be a lord is to be married to the God of your age. I say God because Miquella becomes a God and Radahn is his consort Edit 1: Why Placidusax was likely The Gloam Eyed Queen's consort It is heavily implied since she is the empyrean that Marika replaced. In order to be a God, an Empyrean must have a consort, and we know for a fact that placidusax was Elden lord at some point. Placidusax is also said to be awaiting the return of his God, and the Gloam Eyed Queen's fate isnt confirmed to be dead or alive aka she is missing [Godslayer Greatsword]. Most of what I've said comes straight from item descriptions it's not just me making stuff up, I'm simply making connections with known lore entries. If you don't feel like this is strong enough evidence that's fine. Fromsoft lore is never set 100% in stone. I was simply trying to clarify what a Lord was. Regardless if I'm right about placidusax and the gloam eyed queen the clarification is still correct. Either way I'm not going to respond to anymore replies I don't care enough to do so.
Discovering the Stone-Coffin Fissure on my own was pretty much an Ash Lake moment. And the very simple lore revelation, and why it is there, just made the whole thing for me. Brilliant.
@zacharyperlee4179 it's where Miquella shed the aspect of himself that could love, which was St.Trina. And what can an Age of Compassion be without the ability to love?? And he buried it in the most forgotten part of the world because he wouldn't want anyone to know he shed this part of him, as it guarantees his rule will be no better than that of his mother.
@@jjstraka1982 huh, I figured out that he buried st Trina, but didn't realize the implications regarding how that invalidates Miquella's idea of a age of compassion
I spend the first day free roaming across the map like it was a horse simulator and I ended up at St Trina entrance still locked, I knew the message when entering Black Keep was about that and I rushed there, it broke my heart. The art direction of Trina is amazing but I wish we had more of this aspect in the dlc
Okay I have a theory that Godwyn was initially supposed to be Miquella's Consort. After Godwyn's death, there is proof Miquella instead of trying to revive him as is, instead laments saying in the Golden Epitaph description "O brother, lord brother, please die a true death." We give Radahn a true death through the festival and he was revived because of it. Was the death of Godwyn's soul alone a factor to stop his resurrection? If he was supposed to be his consort it would completely make sense not only emotionally but logically why he would both lament his half-dead festering monstrosity of a brother and hope for a true death for him. He clearly had respect for him and probably saw similar qualities in Radahn. In the remembrance it mentions Radahn's kindness, and strength that they each had, Godwyn had shown for Fortisaxx, and Radahn his scrawny horse Leonard. So many parallels that I think it's very likely.
I also think Miquella and Godwyn had more of a relationship than what is actively shown. I know this is a stretch but it has stuck with me since I saw it on reddit. The statue that shows Miquella and his sister being held by a third person, most likely an alive Godwyn. (male figure with long hair and a similar crown to the one Miquella wears) Well, that statue has the Blight (a plant spawned from Godwyn) growing on only one spot on the whole statue... It looks like the game artist deliberately placed it there and once you see it, you cannot unsee it. The plant is sprouting out of Miquella's ass. Like the redditor said, Idk if it is a joke or supposed to mean something more.
Godwyn was probably going to take Mohg's place as a vessel. I feel like he was destined to die from the very beginning and become the true prince of death, but Ranni's meddling ruined that and got him stuck with a dead soul and living body.
@@mojus2890 A consort can also mean a companion in cases outside of romance. That's straight up what's happening with Radahn here, so I wouldn't necessarily say it had to be in the form of a wife or child.
@@Ultradocker tbh I was kinda just joking a bit about Fromsoft stories being hard to understand but I do actually understand the main story of the dlc. There are some other things I don’t understand though that I’m hoping to get some answers for at some point.
@@scrublord7922 nah, I understood elden ring and bloodborne. You guys just need to think outside of the box more, and read item descriptions for hints.
It seems to me that Miquella will end up repeating Marika's actions, the fact he chose Radahn. His Age of Compassion is enforce by Radahn thru endless war. Submit to Miquella or die by the hands of Radahn.
I'm curious why he needed radahn, when he already had Malenia. Who'd do anything for him anyways. Did Malenia march on radahn for miquella or to prove something to miquella.
@@abhitejvelore Well, Miquella seem to already made a vow along time ago, he is hell bent on keeing his vow. Radahn clearly left an impression of young Miquella.
@@abhitejvelore no the reason is Malenia was an empyrean. And I think an Empyrean can't become another Empyrean's consort. That's why he chose radahn. Like Ranni chooses us.
@@chonkhampter this makes sense when I think about it. Otherwise I can't imagine any other reason miquella needs anyone else. Malenia is right there to do as he orders.
What I like about the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC is that it pulls no punches in showing off the horrors of war and mass slaughter similar to some scenes from George R.R. Martin’s “A Song of Ice and Fire” books.
@@VictorIV0310 the irony of the games and the books is that despite the heavy themes and the grim realities they display, you feel sucked into these worlds and fantasize about being apart of them, and kind of are when you play the games. When I read or watch anything ASOIAF, it’s fun to fantasize about being a knight or a sellsword, then you turn the page and it’s “oh this guy got pinned under his horse, broke his leg, was captured, and then died from infection”. Good times.
@@Hellohello-mn2bj No, its a book series called A song of Ice and fire, the tv show was GOT. Right now, Jon Snow is still bleeding out in the snow and the only real slaughter described in detail in present tense was the Red Wedding, the only real battles (and aftermath) seen from the perspective of Tyrion Lannister and Jon.
SmoughTown has been championing the idea that the Greater Will was way more than just another Outer God for a while now, among other things due to how the original Japanese consistently uses different terminologies when referring to the Greater Will (using language that is reminiscent of the Biblical God) and Outer Gods (who seem to be more similar to the Kami of Shinto tradition). Looks like the DLC provided more evidence in favour of his position
@@RobertoLeonelSanchezHernandez More like…there’s Kami of every stature. From the big heavenly Kami who act as the gods of a traditional pantheon, to Kami representing literally every force of nature. The mighty goddess of the sun can be a Kami, but so can be the spirit of a random ass old tree. Or literally poop. Everything in nature has a soul. There’s Kami for everything. I guess while we roughly translate Kami as gods, maybe a closer term is spirits. There’s lesser nature spirits for everything that exists, and greater spirits that are more traditional gods. Yes, something like the god of rot could probably totally work as an impure Kami.
@@ahmadabusamra9785 I tend to agree a lot with SmoughTown's theories, especially given that he often goes out of his way to learn how English localisation may make some subtle but substantial changes from the original Japanese. And his compilation videos are really good
Nanaya is likely a finger maiden like Hyetta, as she got her eyes covered, gaslighted Midra to "endure", and crafted a previous failed lord into that torch. Her corpse is also uninjured, hinting that she just "left" it and probably possessed someone else, like Hyetta possessed Irina
Where do we find ANY in-game lore about Midra or Nanaya? I loved the area where his mansion is located at and was very excited about Midra in the trailer, but when I finally reached to him, I got so disappointed. Killed him first try, saw no lore about him whatsoever, and still don't know what was the motivation of my character to kill him.
@@thulsa_doomI think it has something to do with the description of Nanaya's torch found on what is assumedly her corpse, the items and Remembrances involving Midra, and the fact that everything within the manor and its boundaries are afflicted with the madness.
It’s kinda wild that the Minor Erdtree spell and the golden braid are (probably?) the only look into Marika’s mindset that we’re ever going to get, since (as far as I know) every single time she’s referenced, it always states her actions and leaves out her motivations and feelings concerning said actions. And even then, what we got is still very vague since the braid doesn’t specify what Marika’s wish/confession was.
I speculate that Marika's wish was a simple act of vengeance against those who have contributed to the destruction of her village, that being the Hornsent. Upon making the wish, the Divine Gates ascended her to Godhood, which then gave her enough power to send Messmer and his men to commit genocide on the Hornsent. Knowing that this genocidal act is effectively blasphemy against the normal laws of the Golden Order, she abandoned Messmer and in turn the Shadow Lands in order to sweep it all under the rug and maintain proper Order under her rule. I do also speculate that the revelation that contributed to Marika Shattering the Elden Ring was also her realizing who Metyr was, as it would effectively mean her entire life and rule was built under a complete lie. This would naturally cause her to lose it entirely and attempt to rebel against the Golden Order by Shattering the Elden Ring, which would provoke punishment from the Elden Beast.
@@MrZalgo-ml2iw why did the greater Will leave metyr without any instructions tho? It just sends metyr and the elden beast to the lands between and just leaves without warning?
@@RobertoLeonelSanchezHernandez We had already been told the Greater Will had abandoned the Lands Between. Fans just didn’t believe it lol. It likely saw how chaotic and violent mortals were and decided "screw you guys, I’m going home" since it’s an embodiment of Order. The Finger Morher went insane without any instructions and decided to try to impose order how it could and influenced Marika into creating the Golden Order. Marika, who likely wanted power to avenge her people, rolled with it. That’s my read.
@@RobertoLeonelSanchezHernandez so it could focus on another universe I guess. They saw how their brief influence caused so much conflict and war and decided to peace out
@@MrZalgo-ml2iwGreater will abandoned the lands between during the shattering as stated in the intro cutscene and is not responding as we saw in the base game when the fingers try to commune with GW. Metyr also was probably abandoned after or during the shattering not since the beginning. Marika also communed with the greater will and it sent the elden beast to become the erdtree during her time as we saw in the story trailer. Elden stars item description says once the greater will sent a golden star to the lands between and after dlc we know now that metyr was the first and the elden beast later. Marika broke the elden ring because of Godwyn's death as the intro states it sent her to the brink which probably reminded her of the hornsent massacre of her village. Godwyn's death is the catalyst for the shattering and the shattering and the inability of the demigods to restore order is probably why the greater will left.
A nice detail with Bayle is that Placidusaxs two missing head are biting down on his neck. One is right behind his right horn and the other a bit further to the left.
Damn Ging, literally just finished everything in the DLC and the final boss like 5 minutes ago and was wondering when you would upload. Absolute perfect timing, this is why you’re my favorite!
1:22 Needle Knight?! Needle as in Hornet? Miyazaki must know the release date. Silksong 2024 Confirmed. Jokes aside thanks for putting out this video so I can understand how Miquella has some Radahn clones lying around.
@@ЕкатеринаСеренкова It has been a long and silent wait. I Heard Leda call herself "needle knight" while I was playing and it hit me like a sleeper cell activation phrase.
*sees thumbnail* Messmer looking good in his gaming throne chair. What a chad.
3 месяца назад
I had assumed that Merika's village was destroyed in some random act (violence, plague, whatever) and her prayer was "for it all to make sense" which is why she was chosen as the avatar of the Golden Order, to force the world to make sense. With that finger ruins right next to the village, I thought that's where the first fingers would have fallen too. And for that matter, the other finger ruins being nestled right in the abyssal forest with all the frenzy seemed like the three fingers would have landed there.
@@iambluetooth1430I think three fingers was just a anomaly. And Frenzied Flame God used that as a vessel. Because Hyetta's words make sense with this: *Greater Will made a mistake.*
Interesting interpretation but I'm not too sure about it. The Fingers seem predate the Golden Order since it's sort of implied Metyr fell shortly after or possibly around the time of the Elden Beast. And we know the Elden Ring(which is the Elden Beast) has been around since the reign of the Ancient Dragons. All of which predate Marika. Not to mention that all the evidence surrounding the Hornsent and the Shamans really seem to push the idea that the Hornsent were fanatics who completely subjugated and massacred the Shamans.
My theory about Three Fingers is this: We know the all two fingers and fingercreepers mother is Metyr. The first fallen star to the lands between. But Elden Beast form doesn't match with Finger ruins. Its not a finger afterall. But Metyr seems like she has 3 heads. Maybe when she fell down to earth she crushed into pieces like meteors? Then she united as Metyr? Three fingers doesn't look like special, it has just one more finger. Humans also can have this anomalies. Like born with tail, extra arms or legs etc. And in some old cultures families even abandoned these babies. These poor babies were seeing as curse from Gods. Crows for another example. Albino crows always excluded from their nests. So in this situation, three fingers excluded from the nest, isolated, rebelled and called Frenzied Flame God without knowing. So, three fingers cursed abyssal forest and after that event Marika or Messmer himself locked Three Fingers to the depths of sewers. This can be our answer why we found Three Fingers in depths. Because we know two fingers can't be killed. Three fingers is not an expection. It has just one more finger xd
I think there is a reason why the three fingers aren’t mentioned in Metyr’s description and it’s because the greater will created everything by shattering the one great and the frenzied flame saw that as a mistake and sought to destroy everything the greater will created by melting it all away, and the greater will are shown to punish anyone who goes against them or seeks to destroy their order like with the nox for example, so it would make sense why Metyr wouldn’t create the envoys of the frenzied flame which are basically the antithesis of the greater will.
My theory is the realm of shadow is inside the erdtree, and Marika was holding it closed until the elden ring was shattered which then broke the gate between the two, sort of like the underworld. It would explain why Bayle is there as he was killed by Placidusax, we know Radahn is dead because we kill him, and miquella was dead in the cocoon, perhaps Metyr hasn’t heard the outer will because it also died and is stuck in limbo. It’d explain all the ghosts/graves and why it’s unseen on the map. The warrior jars indicate some messed up rebirth ritual, so it’s possible Messmer is there to prevent any omens or other who don’t follow the golden order from being reborn
This explains Godricks grafting ability for me, as he was a partial descendant of the shamans. And while he knew the poem of his grandmothers wish, "One day we will return together, to our home, bathed in rays of gold ", he didnt know its meaning.
I can’t help but wish that Godwyns souls had been used since it was the one thing that died and Miquella has a whole story about trying to bring him back with the eclipse. The bodies of two brothers and soul of a third would have fit really well rather than then 2/3rds Radahn
Exactly, why wasn’t Godwyn’s body used as the vessel instead of mohg with Radahns soul? Why weren’t we given a Godwyn fight after alll the lore & setup prior? It’s disappointing tbh.
@@SilentiumCivis The whole Radhan thing just comes out of left field and makes the whole battle of Caelid between him and Malenia seem like a stupid spat, tbh. It kinda ruined a lot of the game's lore for me.
@@penrilfakeRadahn refused Miquella's request, so Miquella sent Malenia to kill Radahn to use his soul, but Radahn fought back and held the stars at bay so his fate with Miquella would not happen.
Regarding Wether Radahn is/ wanted to die honourably, you have to remember that in the base game, Radahn IS dead - his brain has been destroyed by scarlet rot - The Radahn we are told about no longer exists there, but in the Shadow Realm. It's likely the Festival is to just honour his original body and finally put it to rest. Radahns real wishes won't be known
Lore spoilers! I’ve been speculating that Messmer’s role in the Land of Shadow was an overseer installed by Marika to keep its denizens in check both as a form of exile for his blasphemy and a duty that she foisted on him until he will be allowed back into her arms. Turns out I was half right; While I don’t know his exact feelings on the matter when he waged war against the land, he was indeed tasked with lording over the land as a dreaded “devil” figure for its denizens to focus their hatred on. Messmer also hated his fire powers and had a serpent within him that he tried to get rid of but to no avail. Marika plucked out one of his eyes and placed a seal of grace to keep the snake within before having him kept away in the Land of Shadow, presumbably erasing him from history. He also sounds quite weary in his boss introduction where he seems reluctant to fight us but accepts it as his duty nonethless and second phase cutscene where he looks at the Marika statue before ripping his eye out. For him to curse Marika in his dying breath, he must’ve carried such lifelong resentment towards her. Poor guy. Also, if I’m not mistaken “Base” could mean an old, archaic term for vile, lowly, contemptuous or even bastard, hence the other term “baseborn” which could also refer to a bastard born out of wedlock?
I believe that Messmer & Melina are the bastards of Midra and Marika. They may have had a relationship during the time she sent Godfrey to deal with the fire giants. This would explain why Messmer & Melina both have Kindling and the ability to use fire. She then seals the snake curse within him and uses him as a warden to keep the denizens of the Land of Shadow at bay. (She may have also tried to get rid of Melina, I am not sure. It is stated by Melina that she doesn't have a physical form.) This would also explain the line within the trailer that talks about "an affair".
I don't think I'll ever get to prove this interpretation beyond just vibes, but I think Messmer did have a mix of love/hate towards Marika, and probably wanted to make her proud. Hence it's maybe likely he did the crusade or let all the blame for it fall on his shoulders because he believed it would please his mother. If he was old enough to accept it, he probably also accepted the seal of grace from her "willingly" (in quotes because under this interpretation it would've been from pressure to appease his mother again even if it hurt him). I guess the main driving force behind why I see it this way is his dialogue when the Tarnished meets and fights him. He says he won't suffer a lord bereft of the grace of gold, and I think that's because all his life, despite the serpent and the fire within him, he'd been fighting to defend that ideal of the grace of gold. of his mother, even at the expense of undoing the seal she put on him. But the Tarnished fighting to become Elden Lord basically with Marika's blessing is a spit in his face. What was he fighting for, bleeding for, debasing himself for if his mother can just change her mind that the grace of gold is actually no big deal and this lowly Tarnished is viable in her eyes to become Elden Lord? I'd curse her too if I was him.
@@andrewfornes5320Marika and Midra conceiving Melina and Messmer is most likely the correct answer, thought of it as well when I saw that painting in midras manse.
When your searching for Midra’s and you stumble across those weird things you have to parry in order to kill, if you read the description of the item it drops it says something about the Swollen Grape being “Marked with fingerprint burns, proof of having being touched directly by the Three Finger’s embrace” so those weird things have some sort of connection with the three fingers.
This dlc is incredible! Fromsoft absolutely killed it with this one, both story wise, and gameplay wise. I’ve only beaten it once so far and it’s only been out for a week but I’m really hoping we get a second dlc in the future!
haven’t seen anyone mention it yet but the shaman village is actually something that gets lost in translation. in japanese it’s referred to as the miko village, miko being shrine maidens.
I have a feeling that Midra is the father of Messmer and Melina. The reason why I think this is the fact that the trailer mentions "an affair" and the fact that Messmer was around before Radagon was with Renalla. I believe when Godfrey was away killing the fire giants, Marika and Midra had Messmer & Melina. I think she then tried to hide both of them (after sealing away the snake curse within Messmer) and used Messmer & an army given to him by his parents to go and fight in the land of shadows. By this time, Marika would've known Renalla so she would probably be able to persuade Rellana to fight for him, either as Marika or Radagon. We also know that Messmer & Melina both have kindling within them and the ability to burn the Erdtree. Those traits probably come from Midra.
Hear me out, what if radagon/marika was the father and the gloam eyed queen was the mother, this would also explain why melina has the one gloam eye on the left and why messmer is missing his left eye
Lore theory: Marika's original sin was the creation of the ErdTree, and Miquella discovered it Miquella creates the Haligtree and feeds it with his own blood. Ever wonder why? What if Miquella was trying to find out how the Erdtree grew and discovered it needed runes (ie souls) to grow. Notice the colour of the illusory Erdtree is the same colour as the runes left behind if you die and is also the same colour as Marika's Grace rune which holds the most runes of all. The DLC trailer has a shot of Marika standing at the gates of divinity seemingly forming a rune arc from golden strands. The gap in the middle of the gates of divinity and the curved top of the gate pillars forms the shape of Marika's great rune, which cannot be coincidence. What if the gates of divinity were made by Marika to form the Erdtree and ascend to godhood? So Miquella discovered from the Haligtree that the Erdtree needed runes to grow...and the Erdtree is HUGE, meaning it must have needed many, many runes. Now look again at the DLC trailer shot...notice the gates of divinity are formed of many, many hornsent bodies that are red, seemingly covered in blood. Was the Erdtree created using the souls of the hornsent, who were purged in Marika's first war in the shadow realm? A war so gruesome it "must never be told". Perhaps this is the original sin mentioned in the DLC...and it's also what Miquella went to the shadow realm to confirm and to atone for... Looked at this way, the story of Elden Ring is a tragedy that mirrors much of human history. The creation of a civilisation/religion through the subjugation of earlier civilisations/religions. And the attempt to atone for these wrongdoing which so often simply ends up repeating the mistakes of the past, however well intentioned...and thus the cycle continues.
I knew what malenia whispered mattered so much even years ago. I also guessed miquella was solely trying to ascend to godhood and had bewitched mogh. It's nice being proven right Also guessed Melina was directly Marikas daughter
I have a question, how exactly did miquella ascend to godhood? Marika did it by joining with the elden ring or something like that, but miquella very clearly didn't use anything related to the ring, he even threw away his great rune. Did his sacrifice of everything he was, alongside his semi-divinity, allow him to ascend and become fully divine? The miquella he get to know is gone, he died slowly and methodically as he left everything he was behind in is path to godhood, and he does succeed, he fight him as a full fledged, new born god. To be honest, i am curious about the gate of destiny of divinity or whatever it's called, that miquella used to ascend, what is it's origin and how does it work?
Defeating the final boss gives a drop of a crown of sorts that Miquella was wearing. Reading the description implies that it would have been the equivalent of his Elden Ring
Thank you for this video. When I was speed reading through Freyja's dialogue, I accidentally skipped the line about Miquella wishing to revive Radahn's soul since I pressed the skip button right when the previous line ended. I was SO confused by people saying that they had revealed the final boss half way through
Marika’s hatred towards the hornsent could be the reason she got rid of Mohg and Morgott. She fights a war to get revenge, becomes a god and her first children are the very thing she fought against.
The frenzy flame ending is just! I am certain we can take the frenzy flame ending given by hyetta as fact. The mistakes happening under the greater will is taxing a penultimate diety, the one great. A vicious Ying to the greater wills yang. Also, the frenzy flame never seemed like destruction, but rather just a reset. Imo
@DronesOverTheMoon After my experience with everyone in The Lands Between. I came to the conclusion that everyone deserves to burn. Besides maybe Morgott, Godfrey, and goldmask, as they are aware of the mistakes Marika/Others made. And innocents like roderika and the blacksmith. The DLC only reinforced this ideal
@@tacticalmattress So your telling me your experience with one specific part of the whole world is more than enough to decide to destroy existance itself? Damn my guy
Something about metyr I thought was interesting. In base game the spell thop’s barrier implies that sorcery and incantations might be closer related then either would like to admit. Metyr’s staff let’s you cast both sorcery and incantations. My theory is that the greater will and or metyr might be the main source of all magic in the lands between.
i just wow. miyazaki made another masterpiece. in all fromsoft games i love the lore more than the gameplay and this video answered like 90% of my questions about the story of the whole game in general
@@Midra_lord_of_frenzied_flame Nah he right, the other fromsoft games deliver their lore in a much more satisfying way, you know most of the things you want to know whereas with elden ring we don't get half the answers we want, not to mention ER clearly has the worst boss design philosophy yet, bosses spam and delay attacks to no end
The part near the end about the finger mother really hit me there, I love that they would throw such a powerful curveball at us by showing that the finger maidens and the crones were basically being misled and were following a false idol
Gingy, would love to see you do a deep dive for your "mega video" and just really get into the weeds of some of the details. I know that might make it like a 12hr video or something, but real talks, I leave your videos on while I work, so 12hrs is actually a mega blessing
I feel like Miyazaki saw everybody dogging on Mohg for allegedly wanting to get it on with Miquella and everybody loving Radhan for being a badass warrior demigod and just thought "Guys, it'd be really funny if we switched it up on them-"
Honestly it may be a hot take but I'm not a big fan of radahn being the final boss. There are a lot of aspects of the dlc I do like narratively but I think they should have let radahn die and let either godwyn or another deity take the center stage. At the very least you could have had Radahn be killed and then another deity appear like in the base game connected to Miquella. I've enjoyed a lot about this game but the very ending left a bad taste for me. Hopefully a potential further expansion of some sort will answer a bit more about Marika but we will see.
At first i was disappointed, but reflecting its pretty good and ties pretty well with the story/lore. That's why Malenia fought Radahn, also that's why she never tried to rescue Miquella from Mohg and was simply waiting. She was waiting Miquella return as a god from the realm of shadow.
I'm so glad we got more solid lore on our beloved Melina. I missed her in the DLC. But, it's good we know now of her family ties. Tt's crazy that she's ballsy enough to take on a Lord of Frenzied flame in the Frenzy ending. She must be pretty strong. Since we have a rough reference to how powerful they are.
I still think people are taking the consort title way too literally. Miquella isn’t trying to marry radahn in a literal sense. He’s just choosing him as his ride or die enforcer.
I saw someone comment this somewhere in Reddit, and it was actually the thing thus far to me that kinda made the most sense when connecting all of this. And it was about Radahn holding back the stars. I dont think, to me at least, that it was clear at all during the base game as to the "why was Radahn holding back the stars" after all, and him being Miquella's Consort and their promise could be the reason for it. If Radahn was being agreeable with their promise and was acceptable of it (assuming then that his battle with Malenia was him basically being "I will join you as Consort once I die, but I will not just die without fighting, if I am to die, I will die in a war, fighting, someone will have to kill me" kind of agreement, which Malenia failed to accomplish at the end, but then again, the fact she infected him with Scarlet Rot technically meant that, in time, he would eventually just die regardless lol so i guess she succeeded anyway?), then he could be holding back the stars in order to prevent Ranni's Order of the Moon from progressing into fruition and establishing itself, thus allowing Miquella's new Order to have no contenders and continue forward with its implementation. I apologize if this was stated at all somewhere, I didnt really see any of it anywhere, and it's what made the most sense to me. I appreciate your video, some of these things I did end up finding for myself, but i did miss some crucial aspects (specially cause i fucked up most of the quests and ended up not giving Ang the scroll and getting those juicy extra dialogues) and it was really good to get these extra puzzle pieces to put together with everything else. Appreciate it! Question for whoever made it this far: they explicitly said in an interview that SotET would have multiple endings, was that a very poorly phrased way of saying the Leda fight has multiple ways of going down, or is there really secret/hidden endings that nobody has discovered yet?
Great video and also, it's so good to see someone pronounce "scadu" the correct way! I've seen this prefix while studying Tolkien's writing and I finally understood why the portuguese translation of Shadowfax is Scadufax. Basically it comes from Sceadu-fæx from old english.
Bro just wanted to lead his group of Blood followers in peace and carnage. You know, the normal for the Lands in Between. But instead, he was sadly charmed by Miquella. What a terrible fate.
About Metyr, I understood it as she can't communicate properly with the Greater Will but her offsprings can be used/hired by anyone. She basically became finger creature dispenser. That's why I think Rykard uses the Fingercreepers, he found "soldiers" without a master. As for Two Fingers, I think there are many waiting and the Greater Will contacts them directly when they need one for a demigod, etc.
I am still confused about why Miquella chose Radahn; the two never really talked or were said to be interacting with each other, and then what about Malenia? Did Miquella just straight up abandon his twin sister and leave her to go crazy from the rot?? She has been waiting for him, but he never came back. The two are close, so I don't understand why he would. I feel so bad for Malenia; her brother just left, let her go crazy, and then married the man that almost killed her in a battle.
my theory on Radahn's answer to Miquella is that he agreed, but over time forgot or changed his mind after he grew to idolize Godfrey, one of the most dedicated servants of the current order, so Melania was sent in order to remind him of the vow he made and ensure his soul is released.
For all my game of thrones fans I hope yall noticed Bayle the dreads similarity to Balerion the black dread & and Igon reminds me of Balerions rider Aegon. Amazing writing
I still feel after this video, slightly disappointed with the story, because it just reeks of cut and reshuffled content into something that just works instead of being fully fleshed out to me, I just feel like it could've done with more fleshing out as the main story of the DLC feels so inconsequential and the fact the DLCs ending doesn't feel like an ending at all, especially when you look at the fact that other bosses in the DLC could have been considered the final boss without a proper ending.
@@Andrew_S1 I don’t even think it’s that for me, I like the idea of the story and what they were kinda trying with it it’s just they fell short and didn’t flesh it out as much as it needed, and it’s part of my disappointment with that that although I know there won’t be I’d hope for another DLC so that it could have a story to really finish off or clear up some of the last lore threads and flesh out some of the story more
My head cannon is that the greater will is miyazaki and or GRRM. They created the world and left their "fingerprints" all over it. When they were done, they stopped "communicating" with it directly and left everything to their own devices. Unfortunately the fingers couldn't cope and everything slowly fell apart.
I saw a writeup that attempted to explain malenia and radahn’s fight. Radahn probably agreed to be miquella’s consort way back in childhood. However, the Shattering caused immense complications. The shattered great runes drove the demigods mad, and this included Radahn, who went from supposedly a compassionate person to a mindless warmonger. For Miquella’s plan to work, he could not have Radahn left in this state. So Malenia, given she was the only person able and willing to match him, dueled radahn in a fight that she could not afford to lose. Thus, as a last resort, she nukes caelid in an attempt to bring Radahn to the afterlife. It doesnt work, but the radahn festival would work to grant radahn an honorable death anyway. The writeup also suggests that mohg kidnapping miquella was not according to plan, and miquella charmed mohg as self defense when mohg attempted to use miquella to create his own mohgwyn dynasty. Miquella likely intended to travel to the shadow lands from the haligtree under thr watchful eye of his sister (why would he go through the effort of cocooning himself at haligtree’s roots otherwise), but between nuking caelid and mohg kidnapping him, he had to adapt.
Zero lore build-up for Radhan to be done dirty. Making Miquella be griffith 2.0 was lame and the most predictable outcome, what a let down. This crap prolly makes more sense with the full scrip of rr alabamartin. However that lame-O and miyahacky had every bit of a choice not to include even more alabamian PDFly garbo, yet here we are. Thanks for ruining a great game, if you can tolerate this under the chill bro is just fiction, have no patience for cowardice nor disgusting shit the authors willingly add.
17:14 Aaah! the remembrance of Mesmer the impaler states ".....his very mother plucked out his eye and put in its place a seal of grace...." i wonder if and how it's related to melina. Mesmer and Melina both miss their left eye and the right is golden
why is everyone saying "mohg did nothing wrong" bro was trying to make an evil empire out of blood cult and murder, and had priests with big stabby swords going around killing people to spread the truth of accursed blood miquella may have taken advantage of him but mohg sure isn't a good guy. plus there's no evidence miquella forced mohg to kidnap him in the first place. the game only says miquella used mohg to access the realm of shadow, that could have been a decision he made after being kidnapped.
It’s less "Mohg was a good guy" and more "he wasn’t a kiddie didler. Miquella literally brainwashed him into loving him" Mohg is a bad guy, but not a molester lol
I'm noticing a similarity between the designs of the Elden Beast and Metyr. Flip the latter upside down - it's many legs become Wings. It still has arms with hands and the two twisting fingers for its tail may make up some indistinct legs. It's not imitating the shape of a Dragon. It's imitating the shape of Itself. The real one is locked behind Shadows, and its Shadow is the source of great Light.
Someone overlapped the shadow map and the normal map, and it looks like you can almost perfectly fit the DLC into the center lake(?) of the base game. Very cool detail!
I argue that Godwyn isn’t gone because the head by fia actively moves slightly, and if you attack ANY of the giant heads, even the one in the dlc, blood splatters. Godwyn is alive in death, which also ties into the age of dusk lord ending.
I think the Three Fingers was a creation of Metyr after the Shattering and Abandonment in an effort to reestablish contact with the Greater Will, the idea being that maybe 3 fingers would boost the "connection". But instead the 3F contacted the Frenzied Flame instead and began channeling it's will into the Lands Between. The FF could even BE a form of punishment from the GW due to disobedience and rejection by Marika and the shattering of the eldin ring?
Huh, what a interesting inclusion to the Story and Lore, this DLC really does seem to have made a great development on everything, so much so that I don’t even know what another DLC could even add at this point, But if we do get another, what do you think it could cover?
What’s crazy is that if you look back at the story trailer for elden ring you can see when malenia stabs radahn. She murmurs some words into his ear. Maybe that’s when she told radahn about miquella waiting for him.
5:35 you forgot to mention they were thrown into the golems alive. Idk if that’s mentioned in the item descriptions or dialogue, but you can tell just by looking at the bodies
Hey so about the brawl with Leda. You can actually take it down to a 3v4 if you get the soup in belarut and give it to the hornsent and complete his quest he will not join the fight and if you don’t complete Freyja’s quest she too will not be there along with Ansbach, you will still get two ally’s though one of whom will be a sanguine noble that we don’t actually meet in the dlc. And Thiollier will be there so long as you did his quest with st. Trina. So you will only have to fight Dayne, Moor, and Leda.
The Frenzied flame seems to take root in peoples who have fallen into complete despair. I wonder if the three fingers emerged due to Metyr's despair of not hearing from the greater will anymore
great content. I'm still peeved that From missed the obvious chance to tell a better story wrt Miquella. Melania is sent to Calid to kill Rahdon to unlock Miquella's fate. Miquella consoted with Ranni to kill Godwyn so that he could take his body and ascend to godhood. How bad ass would that have been? Miquella as Godwyn? Damn head cannon had my hopes up.
Very good video! One point tho there is two NPCs that talk about the shamans there is another ghost next to the tooth whip that says the shamans should be killed or something along those lines further cementing that they were also the victims of a genocide.
I like the idea that Miquella isn’t even evil or a bad individual, just the way he goes about his goals near the end or maybe ever sense the beginning is rather not so good. The quote “hell is paved with good intentions” basically works here perfectly, he’s good and has good intentions, but the way he goes about it are extremely wrong for various reasons. It would’ve been cool if they had multiple endings where one of them is that form we see in mohgs castle, but that’s just me.
Based on the actions of Miquella, I feel like not only he charmed Mogh into doing his bidding, but also Melania into fighting Radan and making him submit to honoring his vow into becoming his consort, it would explain the fight in the beginning of the game and why the DLC requires us to kill Radan to begin the questline due to the stalemate between Melania and Radan. Either way I feel bad for Melania and the state she is left in by the end of the game.
There's another reference to shamans in the DLC, with the message outside the statue of Marika in the northern portion of Shadow Keep. It's the one you have to gesture to in order to move the path
A really interesting note made by quelaag is that if you look where the church of the bud would be found in the base game it’s adjacent to the pool of rot like the flowering bud uptook the water filled with rot
Something that's interesting but hard to tie together is the fact that the two fingers seem to be two non-thumb digits, while the three fingers distinctly has two fingers and what appears to be a thumb, as it folder over the player in the frenzy flame cutscene. The description of the beastmen implies that they gained intelligence when they were given a fifth finger. However, if that fifth finger was, say, a pinky finger, then there wouldn't be any intelligence gained from that. But if that finger were a THUMB, like the three fingers has, then that might imply gained intelligence. Not sure what it's all supposed to mean but an interesting thread nonetheless.
You can even skip Rellana by using a Spiritspring at the bottem of the Fort of Reprimand, so you only have to kill Mesmer who is also the first boss you can encounter, Romina and then Radahn. Kinda crazy how little you actually have to do.
I have a theory on the graves in the realm of shadow : The realm of shadow is where you go after you die by destined death since you wont be brought back to the lands between . This also explains the unknown origin of the graves . And since the shadow ream is the direct opposite of the lands between , if there is imortality in the lands between , then there is death in the realm of shadow .
Great video! I havent even finished the DLC, I'm mainly in it for the lore lmao, so this is a really good groundwork video while I look at all the other stuff in game.
Marikas symbol on the marika scarseal so to speak is identical to the shape of the gate of divinity. Just interesting thing you may or may not have noticed.
