The Sonic Reference Problem 

Have you guys Opened Your Heart to these amazing Sonic references? Or are you just about ready to Show Them What You're Made of? Personally, I'm about to Green Hill Zone Act 3 myself to oblivion. Anyways, huge thank you to FUM for making this video possible. Go to tryfum.com/CHAOMIX and use code CHAOMIX to save an additional 10% off your order today.

talk about a low budget flight

sonic is just being inclusive to all the dementia-stricken sonic players by reminding them that it's HIS game and HIS world

Sonic's dialogues in Frontiers: - Oh God Amy, this is crazy, it's like that time I merged with Shadow to fight that gray hedgehog with Dragon Ball powers.

Honestly, all the references got too exhausting in the comics. It makes the world feel so small. The only reason it was more tolerable in Frontiers was because Sonic's monologs were rare.

Hearing Sonic saying Shamar will never stop being uncanny especially since it’s my name

Green Hills looking alot like Sand Hill right now.

* *A plane goes flying in the sky* * Sonic: "You know, this reminds of Metal Harbor..."

Sonic making all the references in Frontiers during his monologues are leftover from the scrapped plot of him losing his memories after landing on Starfall. He was supposed to be getting his memories back at the time of the callbacks that he makes.

Sonic: "Oh man Tails, this is worse than that time I ended up in Subspace in Super Smash Bros. Brawl!"

4:22 this one is particularly frustrating from a game design perspective. If I heard this out of context in a game that allows exploration, I would begin looking for a chao garden since the line is structured like a hint rather than a reference

4:53 Ignoring the previous story is a bad thing, but focusing too much on the previous story is also a bad thing. Like everything, there's got to be a balance

what gets me the most is how a lot of these references just don’t feel like natural dialogue, they make a reference for the sake of making a reference when i think of a reference done right, i think of sonic heroes, when knuckles was in awe at the size of final fortress and commented how “the egg carrier is NOTHING compared to this!” while this reference doesn’t serve much purpose in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t feel out of place because the egg carrier is knuckles’ strongest frame of reference regarding giant airships, giving it a good reason to be referenced. the way the line was written is also much more casual than “this reminds me of/this is like…”, which is more blatant sounding in comparison EDIT: fixed knuckles’ quote

Ian did not say only male hedgehog can go super that was izuka. That was funny enough what the super knuckles line in frontiers is tried to say "maybe super knuckles is Canon" because knuckles say IF HE WAS SUPER KNUCKLES as if tried to go super for the first time or he meant like he did it before. And also fun fact kishimoto never heard of the male hedgehog go super ever he just don't know what gameplay that would offer

11:18 This isn't "lore", Flynn has clarified multiple times that these are Sega mandates, after people asked him why he writes Sonic characters the way he does. He doesn't just reveal this information for no reason. Also, you're straight up spreading misinformation regarding these mandates, like: For one, you're wrong about currency in the Sonic franchise. It's been stated multiple times that while there IS money, it cannot be shown onscreen. Secondly, Flynn didn't say that male hedgehogs "cannot turn super", that was Iizuka during a Q&A session at the 2013 Summer of Sonic event, which has seemingly been retconned, because Kishimoto clarified that he had never heard of this rule on his Twitter. I generally feel like you're heavily misinterpreting these mandates; it's not "There was never AT ANY POINT [blank] in the Sonic franchise", rather "FROM NOW ON, [blank] is no longer permitted in the Sonic franchise". Plus, you have to realize that these rules were said BEFORE Frontiers, and the fact that "Super Knuckles" made it in there makes me think that they are slowly taking back these mandates. Nevertheless, I'm in no way dickriding Flynn, in fact, I agreed with most of what you said, but it really annoys me when people heavily exaggerate these mandates, falsely attribute it to Flynn and then get mad at him, all because they couldn't be bothered to Google it.

10:28 Doesn’t he get asked these questions on his podcast though? By people who want this information? It’s not like he’s just spreading this around for no reason, people quite literally ask him.

The "no money" thing probably means "no traditional currency" as in cash or coins. Considering how in flux the rings to item ratio is from game to game it seems accurate from a certain POV

one important thing you fail to mention is that all these references are ENTIRELY exclusive to the non-japanese version, including the dialoge confirmation of sticks and tangle. yep thats right baby, were back in the 90s where the US and JP versions of the same games establish completely different canons. for those wondering in the japanese version instead we usually get light lore expansions on the surrounding areas kindof like the vid demanded around 6:25 makes me wonder if flynn wrote the dialoges like that and they were changed for the japanese version, or did he write them like they are in the japanese version and they got changed by the US localisation team ... or did he just not write them at all ... or did he write both versions ... WOAH MY HEAD'S SPINNING considering all these possibilities

That Dragball art be hittin' different rn

Ian Flynn runs a Q&A podcast, all the lore reveals he said were directly asked to him.

I always thought that Flynn was overindulgent in making his references when I was playing through Frontiers, but I never said it out loud because I didn’t think anyone else noticed. Edit: Although, I do think that saying “Show me what you’re made of” does work as dialogue that actually sounds natural.

Frontiers to me gets a pass because I see it as Sonic talking to himself to remember better times while he's isolated. Sonic doesn't mind going on solo adventures, but with his friends captured and having to fight his cyber corruption without any companionship besides an AI child trying to kill him, I think it's a great way to keep himself grounded imo.

that shit looks like the battlepass

All these references, and not one of them call back to confirm Black Knight happened.

The reason sonic frontiers has so many references is bc it was originally going to be an anniversary game for sonics 30th birthday, but then it got delayed

11:05 Then why do people ask? Why do you care about what this guy says on a stream?? Flynn simply answers because the fandom is so obsessed with canon and lore and buzzwords

This is worst then that time where shadow held a gun (cuts to shadow the hedgehog’s intro)

Imagine if they kept doing this but exclusively for Sonic. It could be like how Jacksfilms once talked about how being an adult is 'fun', because has hundreds of references going off in his head, where he either doesn't remember or doesn't even know where they came from. Like, Sonic is so seasoned with his adventures at this point, that he has a repetitive tendency to recall all the tropes and stuff. I'll incorporate this into my headcanon, but I think it would be fun if it was canon in the future altogether(or at least more people have the same headcanon). The other characters in the cast can/should quit it, though.

I can't say it's a problem because after beating this game twice over, with my 100% run finished last week, I can say I heard almost none of the quotes you clipped for this video. I had no idea there were so many. Since I only heard a couple in my (checks) 60+ hours of play I think these are meant to be uncovered more like easter eggs and not consumed in bulk... also much like easter eggs!

Kronos Island sure is looking a lot more like sand hill right about now.

I honestly feel like the references in Frontiers aren’t an issue. Most of the “empty” references people dislike are either environment-related open-world dialogue which need very specific triggers to activate or optional character conversations which need to be unlocked with memory tokens, and even then they’re both included as part of all open-world dialogue/side convos and are spread out across 5 different islands(not to mention how the Egg Memos, which at worst have much more plot/world-building-connected dialogue, aren’t encountered in the open world and have to be unlocked through Big’s shop); I’ve played Frontiers multiple times over and I’ve only encountered a handful of the “empty” “Hey, this reminds me of-“ reference dialogues while playing and had to look up videos to get the full compilation. Not only that, the “mandatory” references in necessary story cutscenes are almost entirely purposeful to the plot. Knuckles says the Ancients’ ruins are exactly like the ruins from Angel Island, which make him desperate to protect them from attack in order to preserve a connection to his past and his home, and says the emptiness of the islands reminds him of how Chaos’ attack on the Knuckles Clan eventually led to him being completely alone. Tails talks about him faltering when Infinite attacked still weighs on his mind as evidence of his failures when Cyberspace hurt his mind by preying on his fears, while Sonic talks about how Tails has done plenty of awesome things that prove he’s capable, explicitly talking about saving Station Square, escaping Prison Island, and defeating the Deadly Six. Sage tries to convince Eggman to consider joining with Sonic to save the world by reminding him of their teamwork on the ARK and against Neo Metal, which Eggman tries to write off. I feel like Frontiers genuinely strikes a good balance in doing references, and while some of the individual references can be corny and Family-Guy-cutaway-gag-y, overall most of the references are tasteful and actually contribute positively to the game’s story and world building.

My favourite Sonic reference is from Sonic Adventure 2. Eggman wants to finish the Eclipse Cannon and Rouge gives him a lead on where the last emerald is, giving him a newspaper recognizing Tails for saving Station Square with his reward being a Chaos Emerald. It's simple, but still ties the two adventures (pun intended) to each other and sets up the very important plot point of that last emerald. This one nod is more tactful than most of the references in Frontiers combined, even the one *about* the Eclipse Cannon.

5:16 “GREEN HILL ZONE ACT 3”

Yeah that part about Mario... Nah I'd prefer it if Mario had connected stories and lore. The Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi series proved that it can work. Or at least give us better worldbuilding because there's already so much unused worldbuilding potential in the Mushroom Kingdom alone, let alone in the entire Mario world.

Ice??? That reminds me of ice cap zone!!!

“Overcompensation” seems to be the running theme with Sonic, regardless of who’s writing…

Having listened to Flynn's podcast regularly, it saddens me to see Chaomix putting blame on him for things that are not his fault and shows a lack of research. Not the references themselves, those are more of a taste thing, but the idea that Flynn just mouths off internal secrets is a straight up lie. And there's a ton of misinformation here too, like the male hedgehogs going super thing.

I do agree these references are quite corny, but the thing is: most of these are optional. In fact, during my playthrough, I never came across the optional ones, only discovering them a few days after I beat it. If they have to include overt references, I'd prefer it be optional rather than shoved down your throat, and most of the references in the main story fit well context-wise (besides stuff like the Dark Gaia mention lol) Also, people who use these points to say "Ian is the WORST WRITER EVER!!!!! Even PENDERS WAS BETTER!!! BRING BACK MAEKAWA!!!!!" are just so immature and tunnel-visioned. Ian's a great writer, he just likes to flex his Sonic knowledge too much in my opinion. His Sonic is a bit wordy for my tastes, but it's certainly not as bad as the worst this franchise has had to offer.

8:38 Honestly it’s more likely that this a similar case to how Sticks is canon, but not the entirety of Sonic Boom. Just because Tangle is mentioned doesn’t mean that the IDW are confirmed to be completely canon, it just means that Tangle and possibly some other characters from the IDW comics are being brought into the mainline games.

I like references to an extent they connect the games in a sort of way That is very interesting

11:17 He says many times these are what Sega and the lore team decides are canon. He confirmed that Sega once had a human world and a cartoon world for Sonic around the Forces days. Until it was retconned back to normal. For example. He only brings up these lore details only because his podcast is all about answering questions.

For the most part these never took me out of the experience. They rarely popped up for me so the very few time they did I was just like, "oh neat", and then I kept playing

I don't see a problem with this. It's literally just referencing the series' past in a better way than just Green Hill or "gotta go fast" which is Sonic's "catchphrase" which he's never fucking said before! I feel like the references in the idle dialogue and the actual cutscenes are like a well over-due paying of respect to the canon after all of the continuity was thrown out the window with Colors.

in all fairness for sonic's random quips, some of these lines were cut from the game like the babylon garden and sky sanctuary vibes ones, and you rarely ever hear them unless you stand there for 10 minutes, making them feel more like easter eggs i feel

This isn’t really a problem for 2 reasons. 1. You actively have to wait for Sonic to say a majority of those callbacks, and they’re mostly all optional gameplay. It’s not as if Sonic says them every time he can during the story. He has a chance of saying it in the open world. Case in point, I haven’t heard of a majority of them. 2. It’s only Frontiers. Not really a problem with “current Sonic storytelling” if only one game does it, and most of it isn’t even part of the story. Just optional fluff dialogue. We don’t have to complain about everything guys. Also, please don’t start this whole crusade against Ian Flynn based on ignorance. He did not decide there is no money in the Sonic universe. Sega did, and he was just giving the answer that Sega did. Ian Flynn is not in charge of the franchise simply because he writes some stories for the comics and dialogue for the games. Same with the “male hedgehogs” thing and whatever else. Ian Flynn isn’t making this stuff up and then revealing them on his podcast. This is stuff already known that Sega has put into their guidelines, and he’s just reiterating the current canon to people who ask. And he did not write Frontiers. He wrote the dialogue. Please don’t hate just to hate. You’re making to clear you don’t actually read the comics or listen to him outside of clips or pictures you see of his work. Sonic did show that thing he said to Surge in his actions. Multiple times in the comics. He essentially say he gives second chances and doesn’t kill. He’s showcased that in the comics many times, with Mr.Tinker, Metal Sonic, and of course, Surge. Don’t think you know much about this stuff based solely on second hand information. Those “Sonic adventure references” fit perfect into the current dialogue and are just funny little nods. Not him trying to remind you that Adventure exists. Sonic would say that stuff. Hell, in many of those songs, the lyrics are from characters perspectives, which obviously includes Sonic.

Izuka and Ian explaining Sonic lore outside of the game is the reason why I don’t take Sonic lore explained by them too seriously bc what they say doesn’t make sense or it’s just really dumb.

Tbh, IMO I think it's petty to get mad at this since this only happened in one game Sonic Frontiers, so far (and maybe the comics idk I didn't read it yet) and all those references are mostly just filler dialogue while exploring the open world lol

The references never bothered me that much, but the balloons drifting in from Spagonia line was WILD lmao

"Why is Tails' character arc ignored in the 2010s?" It was ignored in fucking 2001 for gods sake. Don't act like this is unique to only post-2010 Sonic.

2:51 Call me cynical, but the idea that Sonic's worldbuilding is on-par with big name RPGs is downright absurd.

im gonna be real for a minute. they need to stop referencing the chao. not that i hate chao, i raise them for fun, i adore them. but it's getting to the point where i see them everywhere and yet they dont bother addding them into a game that i can raise or heck interact with. at this point im about to say "Chao garden looking alot more like empty garden right now"

Ah yes. My favorite Sonic character: Peter the Griffin

The game mentioning Sticks and Tangle doesn’t canonize IDW or BOOM, it just states that versions of these characters exist in this game’s world.

Its so funny seeing this criticism I and other have had for a few years now reach somewhat the mainstream. I enjoyed the video.

He runs a Q&A podcast, not just a podcast where he just talks, he's answering people's questions about the series he is asked and answers where he can, he isn't lore revealing just to do so

All this and he still forget Marine exists. So much for that promise.

I honestly don't mind these references. It's actually refreshing to hear Sonic actually acknowledging other characters; something that he's pretty much never done! The next step is to see him actually interacting with said characters. Like how cool would it be to see Sonic teaming up with Omega, or even just having a conversation with the members of the Chaotix (seriously Sega, they've been around since the 90's and Sonic has barely said two words to them!) However, I don't hold much hope that this will ever happen, because Sega still seem to be reluctant to do this out of fear of upsetting the "Sonic's stinky friends" crowd.

Man literally just asked "Why does Ian Flynn answer questions and reveal SEGA's guidelines in his Q&A stream in which people ask him questions about the series lore."

for the most part I agree here, especially when talking about Ian's writing style However using the bumblekast as an actual frame of reference of lore and story is a gross misconception of what the podcast actually is. in reference to the lack of money or only male hedgehogs going super, that was him expressing frustration of the fact that those are really dumb mandates Sega told him. He was not making those decisions, nor are they actual lore reveals. if you really wanted to use good examples of a time Ian has used the podcast to do a lore reveal, the best one is when he said sonic labyrinth wasn't canon. in which it was actually confirmed to be canon in the origins expansion. since then he has actively shut down any real attempts at actually getting lore from the bumblekast besides some clarifications here and there.

Sonic likes references lol

The references just make me think "hey, if you know we want things like a Chao garden WHY ARE YOU TAUNTING US WITH SAYING I WoNdeR iF chAo GaRdEN eXisT?!? GuH huH😊

Guys, call me crazy but I think this video may be a Sonic refrence

I just want to say that thumbnail is BRUTAL. I like the references, I didn't even hear most of them. And I really don't think Sonic was being wordy with Surge, he was just being his normal cocky self. He has his own style and he won't change. I know a lot of people are frustrated with Flynn's writing and can't hold on much longer, but I will never let go. Hopefully he'll take the criticism and live and learn. I'm excited for what he'll bring to the table. Let him show you just what he's made of. I'll be hanging on the edge of tomorrow with bated breath. I like what he does with IDW as a whole. The way he crafted his world is such an interesting take on the characters. If you don't like it, well... It's not like compromise does not exist, you know? I'm just glad the 2010s are over. And it's cathartic having a full-blown fan do some writing. There's so much potential in the future of these games. I just want to see the mandates gone. I'm defying your reign, Sega. Setting the stage for a hero's parade.

tails just saying "green hill zone act 3" with no reasoning what so ever is halerious

I feel the reactions to the overworld references are a smidge overblown. They rarely play at all, and there’s so many of them because when they do play, there’s no chance of them repeating. Stuff like mentioning Dark Gaia after a huge story cutscene, I get why people have issues. But the overworld references feel harmless.

A few little mistakes I noticed. The thing with the male hedgehogs being the only ones able to go Super was said by Ilzuka, not Flynn. The panel you used at 11:42 has dialogue written from Evan Stanley, not Ian Flynn.

Ian Flynn has a LOT of bad writing habits, but making "soyface bait" dialogue might just be one of the worst ones.

13:10 I'll never get over this beard

To be fair, I actually don’t mind the frequent callbacks in sonic frontiers. The game was released at a time where Sega was really trying to reestablish what the current canon of the series is so it makes sense to call back to previous events as a way of saying “yes this is all still part of this universe”. Especially when sonic frontiers was making big changes to our understanding of the timeline, it’s good to reassure the audience that everything that came before still matters. Did they overuse it a little bit, yes, but since this is a game that very much wants to reestablish things it’s good to get callbacks to the previous adventures. Plus, there are one or two times where it does service the plot. Such as when tails compares the weapons on chaos island to each have a destructive power, comparable to the eclipse canon, or mentions that a single laser blast from the end was comparable to Dark Gaia’s strength. This is a good way to set up the end as a dangerous force since with a single attack it is already on the same level as one of the most powerful monsters sonic has fought and it can take hundreds of shots from the equivalent of an eclipse cannon. Of course, references that help. The plot are few and far between but I think it is worth noting.

"Over-compensation" is definitely how I would describe it. I'm not a huge Sonic fan, but I remember there being a lot of confusion and frustration in the years prior to Frontiers, as absurd retcons started propping up. Like Classic Sonic being from a different dimension, or there being 2 worlds. These were pushed back later, thankfully, but it showed that Sega had no idea what they were doing with Sonic lore. Sonic Frontiers basically said "hey, uhh... all of this is still canon. Very little has been retconned. We're getting this all back on track." All those references feel like genuine attempts to reassure fans that these past games are still a part of the canon. And it also tries to drive confusion away by clarifying things that casual fans weren't sure about. Like showing that Riders is canon. I'm sure loads of casual fans thought it was a separate universe due to the different setting and artstyle. But the way they went about it is just crazy. They addressed the lore issues, but did so in the most obnoxious way possible. I'm hoping that _because_ they over-compensated, the next game will tone it down and do more tasteful and relevant references... kinda like Mario! Mario doesn't have an overarching plot, but there is still continuity and lore that people don't seem to realize. Miyamoto likened the cast to actors, but that doesn't mean they're literally actors. It's just a metaphor for how malleable the series is. The series can go wherever it wants and do whatever it wants. But there's still a lot of callbacks and lore, especially in the mainline games, which people don't seem to realize most of the time. Mario is much less focused on canon, but manages to be much more consistent than Sonic is. There are only like 2 major retcons in the Mario series, and equally as many plotholes. I wish Mario would do more sometimes, but I'm also glad he's had so much consistency over the years. And I hope Sonic can return to its old continuity methods and get back to its _own_ consistency as well.

i get that it could be annoying but in my opinion we haven’t gotten there yet. i excuse frontiers because a) it’s the first time since the 2010s sega has cared about continuity and b) in my own opinion most of it was fine. there were some that were kinda forced but i thought they were perfectly fine 99% of the time.

I think you're correct about the overcompensation. Ian was afraid to forget something and basically rapid-fired references. Over one or two games he'll get it out of his system, things will get sorted out with the new lore master, and we'll see much better writing. As for now, let the guys cook, because they finally do, for a change.

"G R E E N H I L L Z O N E A C T 3" - Tails, 2024

i REALLY dont get why those references are a problem, its not like past sonic games have done the same thing and that for most of those references you need to stay idle for 10+ minutes, its just a small thing that of course got overblown by the sonic community

10:36 I mean, that kinda works. Because rings basically give you a shield. And I'm pretty sure people would want to get that if they could

I honestly I feel like references to just Angel Island would have actually foreshadowed the origins of the island and the Ancients. There was moments like that in game, but because of the other ones, it feels unfocused.

10:47 Actually, it was confirmed that this line has a double meaning. If it Sega doesn’t consider Super Knuckles canon, which they most likely do think is not canon, Knuckles is just saying what if he had a Super form. If Sega did confirm it was canon, Knuckles would be referencing his Super form.

As far as I'm aware, Ian isn't making those decisions. He didn't make the male hedgehogs super form mandate or the no currency mandate. He's just telling people about it.

Sonics dedication to continuity has even been a challenge at times. Like how it was clearly established that knuckles was the guardian of the master emerald and they had to come up with excuses for him to appear in games that didn't involve the master emerald

It would've been really funny if people complain enough about all the refrencing in the games that they'll add a (Bubsy ''Verbosity'') slider incase you just want sonic to... not speak. Unless its in cutscenes and stuff.

I legit got exited when i heard these voiceclips ingame the first times. I didn't see half of them in my playthrough though, even with S on every cyberspace and 100% steam achievements... still not gone back to do the multiple characters since the updates...i should.

Sonic: Hey Tails, remember that time Roger Craig Smith trolled the Sonic fanbase about leaving dah franchise? Dat was some funny shit, nyehehehehehe.

I never got any of those lines of Sonic making references to previous games while running around in Frontiers, but everyone else seems to have had them spammed at them? What triggers them?

it WAS a good idea at the start, kinda acting like its telling you what part in the timeline this takes place in, or telling you that sonic DOES remember these things and that these things are canon. after a while, this makes EVERYONE just want to tell sonic to “shut up, we get it, you remember”

The refenrences are fine in small uses, but Yeez the Green Hill pandering is insane

I don't mind a reference every once in a while but i'd be better if the reference has something to do with the story or moves the story forward

Your assertion that Mario has no continuity between games is flat out wrong. Mario has a consistent canon (significantly more consistent than Sonic at that) with a wealth of continuity between games, and was intended to from the very beginning. Firstly, Miyamoto does not see the Mario cast as a troupe of actors - that’s a complete misinterpretation of the quote (one which a popular clickbait polygon article title buys into, so I don’t necessarily blame you for thinking that way). However, it’s obvious in the original article that he’s not talking about the literal lore of the games here. He never once says “they are actors”, just that “to a certain degree”, he sees the Mario characters “like they're one big family, or maybe a troupe of actors”, in the sense that developers can fit them into nearly any kind of video game (be it sports, platformer, RPG, etc.). It’s a simile to demonstrate how he sees them as a developer. This was echoed in a statement from Kenta Motokura on the development of Super Mario Odyssey: Motokura: “…if you think it's fun to do, then it's within the realm of possibility. The Mario IP is so strong, you can take Mario, or a Mario franchise character, and put them in pretty much any situation and it makes it okay. […] Mario carries it off.” It has nothing to do with the actual universe of the games. They aren’t literally actors. It’s an opinion multiple of the developers have about flexibility of the Mario IP. The Mario games are absolutely restricted by what came before and fit into a single wide, continuous world. For any other commenters who may not believe me, here are a few simple, early examples of what I’m talking about: “A continuation of the famous Donkey Kong story. Mario saved the beautiful girl from Donkey Kong. And now Mario has chained Donkey Kong.” - Donkey Kong II “We all know Mario who saved the beautiful girl from Donkey Kong. Now he's back with his brother Luigi, working in a bottling plant, loading cases on a belt conveyor.” - Mario Bros. “The Mushroom Kingdom has been a peaceful place thanks to the brave deeds of Mario and Luigi. The Mushroom Kingdom forms an entrance to the Mushroom World where all is not well.” - Super Mario Bros. 3 “After saving the Mushroom World from Bowser and the rest of the Koopas in Super Mario Bros. 3, Mario and Luigi needed to recuperate from their adventures. Together they agreed that the best place to vacation was a magical place called Dinosaur Land.” - Super Mario World I could go on, but I think this makes my point clear enough as is. As for Dr. Mario, I know you only brought him up briefly, but he only further illustrates my point. Obviously Mario can’t be a certified doctor all of a sudden in a series with continuity - which is why he literally isn’t certified. Dr. Mario is not a legitimate doctor. Shigeru Miyamoto also reaffirmed this in multiple interviews, stating Mario’s doctorate “was maybe, in some way, not necessarily legitimate.” This is constantly reiterated in the Dr. Mario games themselves. These are happening to the very same Mario who’s been on all of the adventures in other games: “Hi everybody! I'm Mario. How's it going? Over the last few years, I've been involved in some pretty wild adventures. Now, believe it or not, I work in the virus research lab at the Mushroom Kingdom Hospital. Today I'm about to begin my research as usual.” - Dr. Mario, NES/GB “The doctor is in! Mario takes a break from his adventuring ways and once again dons his stethoscope for a new generation of germ-battling mayhem” - Dr. Mario Online RX, Wii In fact, the entire cast become “doctors” in Dr. Mario World to save the world from the invading Viruses. Once again, the titles aren’t legitimate: “Mario and friends became doctors?! A colorful cast of viruses has Mario's world in a panic! Mario and over 30 of his friends have put on lab coats and grabbed capsules! Now they're ready to eliminate those unruly viruses. Dr. Mario isn't the only one on call. Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Toad, Wario, Waluigi, Daisy, Rosalina, Donkey Kong, Nabbit, Koopa Troopa, Lakitu, and more are ready to join your staff!” - Dr. Mario World, Mobile Mario Kart Tour and Super Mario Odyssey further prove this, with Mario being able to put on his Doctor Outfit during the races and adventures, respectively.

I did like the one line from Sonic where he and Knuckles are talking about the visions they saw and he asks, "You don't think these were like the visions we saw from Tikal way back when?"

I wonder if Chaomix read the Archie Comics, since the issues brought up in this video about his writing in IDW is nearly nonexistent in the Archie Comics.

I get what you're saying, they personally never bothered me. But I can understand how it'd bother others. But probably a great example of "show don't tell" is that the game basically implies the Chaos is probably an alien instead of a god. So there is still a lot of continuity that does still matter. That's just my take anyway.

As much as I love Ian's writing for Sonic, I do feel like he puts a little too many references than I can take, especially lyrical references. I think it worked with things like the Knuckles prologue and the early IDW comics, as well as crossovers like Lego Dimensions and the O.K. KO episode (both of which he has NOT worked on), but for a single game, I think it was a bit too much. BTW, the 2010s didn't completely ignore continuity. Take Generations for example. It clearly takes place right after Colors with Eggman being lost in space with Orbot and Cubot. And as much heat as Pontaff get, they are the ones that put in the Robotnik line.

Frankly, I think for JUST Sonic Frontiers, it's fine. Even if it's extremely ham-fisted, the acknowledgement of all these stories being in the same canon was very fulfilling, and it made me chuckle whenever it happened. Also, the "lore" implications with Sticks and Tangle, it's fairly obvious that IDW and Boom AREN'T CANON. Like it's not even an argument. The characters just exist in this canon, that's it. I get you're going for the big youtuber statements, but that one just left a bad taste in my mouth. I liked the video, though. Just keep in mind that feelings can really get in the way when thinking about this stuff, it's important to take a step back and think about it calmly; if this had happened the "IDW is canon" bit would have been reconsidered.

The presence of Stix and Tangle don't automatically make the comics or show canon with the games, it just means that those characters also exist within the same continuity. It's not like every Cid from Final Fantasy is the exact same guy completely aware of the events in all the other titles.

We finally have Lois sonic and Peter Sonic, lets get all the family guy members in chaomix thumbnails

"The boost pad in chaos island reminds me of the boost pad in metal harbor"

Yeah. Sonic Frontiers feels less like a Sonic game and more like a RU-vid video. Tails: I'm wildly inconsistant nyeh nyeh nyeh

to be fair I think the references seem a lot more obnoxious if you're seeing them all at once via compilations. Reading the IDW comics the references to song lyrics or meme quotes don't actually happen that often, and when they do they're usually pretty well placed IMO. And in Frontiers the idle dialogues are so rare you'll probably only hear a couple of them in your first playthrough. Personally I quite like the use of references in Frontiers, they're obviously fanservice and not all of them land but it is nice to be reminded that there's a solid series canon again after a decade of games ignoring it. Plus the reference to Tangle is what got me interested in the IDW comics and they're probably my favourite modern Sonic media now so I'm biased.

litterally everytime this mf writes for a sonic game

Sonic fans complain about eerythinigggggg

I'm glad I wasn't alone in thinking frontiers' references were annoying.