Innovations like the Chronoton Integrator make the slow ramp up to the Temporal Cold War more conceivable. The moment you normalize small changes in the flow of time for the purpose of convenience you start a slippery slope that leads to normalizing the idea of altering time to suit your needs if you have the capacity to do so.
Considering that we see quantum slipstream post-TCW, do you think they found a non-causality-violating alternative or that the Temporal Treaty had carve-outs?
@@GSBarlev If it was a computing issue that prevented the Nav systems from working fast enough to stay ahead of the drive, I think it's more likely there was a breakthrough in computer processing speed that just enabled faster navigational records access.
One of the ideas I came up with a shile ago is a computer you trap in its own temporal bubble. With a converter to give it all th einfo you can as fast as you can and then to translate what it says out of the temporal field. The computer could essentially move faster in time than the ship and give deeper analysis due to having days to analyze what other would have a few moments. That would super fit into your theory :D
@@ThunderLord1 The shenanigans that Voyager got up to over seven years in deep space probably gave Temporal Investigations the screaming willies. History might remember the Voyager incident as the first pebble rolling downhill that precipitated an avalanche.
Well done, really accurate! I'm blown away by the love for the Vesta in this comment section, I could never have imagined it would be around for so long. Small remark: The tubes below the deflector are in essence dedicated probe launchers. (I since then have unified Torpedo and Probe shapes, so perhaps in a refit... :P) Fun/sad fact: It was already in pre-visualisation for Picard, but due to time and actor budget constrains it was left out. I did deliver it to the VFX team and I have seen it in some pre-viz shots and in preliminary bridge LCARS tests. I'm reasonable sure that if Legacy will be made by the same group, the Vesta will get a cameo. :)
I could imagine that the vetsa is a connecting step in progressing QSD to larger ships. As it's possible that berfore Vesta and Odessey, the federation only managed to make the QSD work on a smaller scale and thus needing a prototytpe testbed for inplementing the technology to larger classes.
The Vesta was my Main on STO for a pretty long time. It looked awesome, had a hanger for extra fire power, and once I got the hang of R&D and the stats it was pretty formidable. I only moved on from it when T6 became a thing and I got the Pathfinder.
The Vesta/Aventine is close to my heart. I love Ezri Dax, and I love that she got command of that ship. Also, it's a beautiful continuation of the Voyager elongated design. Also, it's my ship in STO :)
@somestormchaseridjitwithwi2024 The Vesta is essentially the Intrepid class 2.0, with a grand majority of this ship's systems that were either derived from Voyager's upgrades and discoveries or improved/helped along research that was going on at home.
Interesting ship and origin story. Have to admit the design is a bit of a miss for me - it feels way too busy for something that's supposed to look sleek. It's like the design was originally slippery and fast, but then STO slapped the hyper-detailed skin look on it and it kinda lost the plot. I think if they dialed back the greebling and detail, it would look a lot more cohesive. I think the Odyssey class design did a better job balancing the slick and detailed angles.
Honestly, wish the Titan A was a new build Esquiline Class. Not a neo constitution. And great way to introduce it into canon. Its the shio that replaced the Odyssey. Starfleet realized the the Odyssey was too big and over intensive for tge mission profile so Starfleet goes to rhe Vesta as a smaller, sleeker, faster ship. Trans warp and Slip stream tech finally ironed out in a brand new w ship.
Has anyone actually counted how many "classes" of vessels Starfleet has now as they have become such a generic plot device there seem to be more classes of starship today than there are officers to staff them.
It occurred to me sometime in the last year that they ought to be more starship classes that are inspired by nonhuman history. Like it seems like most of the starship classes are named after human myths. But there are so many more species in Starfleet in the Federation, you would think over the centuries that Moore ship classes would be named after non-human history.
isn't the explanation for the human history naming of ships due to the vast majority vessels being both designed & built in the Sol system, but the various technologies are built across the Federation, like at the beginning of the Federation, Earth/Mars had a scale of ship building unmatched by any other Federation world/s, so it benefitted everyone to have the Terrans build the ships & member world's would contribute their best specialisation to the designs.
@@rattelv426 Maybe that's the canon explanation, but it seems far fetched to me: - Nearly every other race in the Federation had warp travel before Earth - Their warp drives were far more advanced - The other races had several planets and even multiple star systems under their control for mining and construction - The Federation may have been instituted by Earth, but without the other worlds, there's no Federation It seems to me there would be way more ships with non-Terran names. Especially after 100-200 years or so. And even if Earth did build them, there's no way such an organization would be both largely crewed by humans or largely named with Earth names. Yes, the Mars construction is the in-universe explanation, I just don't buy that such an arrangement would ever happen. The other worlds would be richer, more advanced, and more proud than to defer to Earth for most of the ship names.
The Vesta's QSD can still fit into existing canon by setting it's design date just slightly before Voyager returns. The project could have been part of a peace time revitalization of Starfleet after the Dominion War, trying to reengage in the science and exploration goal after a bloody war. Even after Voyager's return, they couldn't figure out how to intergrade a proper QSD into the existing Vest design, so the ship was then rolled into production without it as a normally propelled starship. The Vesta design was already really strong, so why scrap the design because of one thing? The Dauntless 2 project was then started with proper working knowledge of functional QSD from Voyager's travel.
Iv got the legendary Vesta on STO best ship iv got I can do anything tank done dps done heal done it has hanger pets as well just wish it had a better cloak
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and executed and very informatively well explained in every detail way shape and form provided on this format and subject matter on the Vesta class starship design and the various functions, abilities, duties and mission parameters of this vessel!; A job very nicely well done indeed Sir...
As soon as I saw the Aventine/ Vesta in the ships of the line calendar I fell in love. Sufficiently different to show progress forward but still a federation starship.
They can make the Vesta cannon without paying royalties. Just mention the ship in passing on the show without showing it. A little Easter egg without actually having to do all the legal stuff.
I hate the fact that the Odyssey is canon in service mid-2380s now. We go from sub-700m ships with Galaxy, Sovereign, Vesta... to 1000+m Odyssey. We really ought to have some sort of 850m-ish design at that point, then Odyssey and Ent-F in ~2400. Fits the growth from Enterprise to Ent-E ship classes better than a 300-350m jump that we now have in canon. Vesta could remain as a QSD test bed. After all, developing a tech could result in multiple test beds as they progress and mature the tech. Dauntless might've been the original, with Vesta being designed potentially "for but not with" QSD with the intent of it providing more...vigorous field testing of the tech once the Dauntless test program completed. That aspect might have been shelved post-UP attack as they were more resource efficient than a 1km Odyssey as they were, though as the decades wore on, they might've gotten refit with QSD. That could even explain why they never showed up in PIC - they were all way off elsewhere getting up to hi-jinks while testing the limits of the QSD. That being said, I did grab the Eaglemoss USS Aventine and it's quite the unique design with Voyager and Titan on one side and all the STO designs on the other.
I would say that in show canon, the Vesta class is undertaken at the same time as the Dauntless class, with the reason being that they already knew a fair amount about QSD, had a design which did work, but wanted something a bit more..., normal as well, something which looked like a Starfleet ship. On top of this, dual-production meant that if one ship failed, they had a backup. When the Dauntless was successful and in the wake of the attack on Utopia Planetia, the Vesta class was set aside to focus on getting more important ships underway. As such by the time they got back to it, the design is in a fair state of outdatedness, and required overhauling for its original purpose, which was now also somewhat secondary. Eventually the vesta class would settle in as that high-speed multi-role cruiser in a backbone state. It wasn't top of the line or able to keep up with more modern ships, but could pack a punch when required, was well-suited for many different tasks, and would make a perfect second-contact vessel. First contact undertaken with a flagship vessel in normal circumstances, and then you roll up with the nitromethane drag car to be like "And here's what else we can do, want to work together?"
Another potential thing might be that that Dauntless was an almost one for one replica of the schematics of the other Dauntless, and was built more to let them understand how it worked. The Vesta class being intended to be able to take the QS Drive designs as a starfleet designed ship that would use it, and designed to have the drives installed following tests while being able to work out other issues with the ship before then with the USS Vesta, and when it's recomissioned as the Aventine, that's with the drive installed following testing of the Dauntless. Because the original Dauntless was designed as a trap, having it in mass production might be an issue in and of itself, but a test vessel or two makes sense there just to figure out the technology. Then Janeway "borrows" the Dauntless for her mission to track down the Protostar because it seems like the design might be technically faster, but more of a long range point to point with less of everything else...which would make a lot of sense with the supposed backstory for the design that it was intended to be a rapid transport between Voyager in the Delta Quadrant and Federation space, letting them get people home (and, potentially, back) quickly and easily. And with the delay in standard production after a few ships would also mean that there would be a lot of upgrades and fixes to the design that would have come up over regular use by the existing ships that might make it a good, reliable design at that point with improvements compared to the top of the line designs.
Pretty sure any ship, on the ground depowered, would be unable to lift off again. Lol 😉😜🤣 I'd really like to see new tech developed that wildly surpasses expectations and makes a real difference in Federation citizens lives.
If the QSD on the Vesta could be made more stable for long duration use, days or weeks on end, then it might be a viable option for the first extra-galactic exploration. The Dauntless is a good ship, but it's small, not a ton of room for the amenities and aboard ship an exploration mission to the Magellanic Clouds would require. The Vesta has all that. The large shuttle bays that could send runabouts on survey missions while the base ship does things only it can do, the ample space aboard for labs, work spaces, and crew comforts would let the whole mission run longer, and it could get to the Large Magellanic Cloud within a month and the Small within 2 months. Plan it like the old 5 year missions and you have a job that the Vesta class is in a unique position to fill that role.
the Vesta was my first ship i saved up by selling Dilithium and it always have a Special Place in my Hearth And i could see that the Vesta is fitting in the realm of QST Testbed in that it was an dead end development like the Motorjet that got surpassed by the Jet Engine since it was developed at roughly the same time
The Vesta immediately became my favorite ST ship design the moment I laid eyes on it. My own headcannon for its role in STO is that only a few ships were produced before the UP attack, and then later when the Klingon War was starting to heat up they revived the line because A) The hull design meant for slipstream aeurodynamics also proved to be sturdy hull for conflict (in game stats be damned lol) but was still hesitant on pure warships, and 2)as it was meant to be a test bed for multiple experimental systems, everything internal was designed to be modular, making it very easy to upgrade and retrofit with new tech. Thank you for covering our blue beauty! Side note: there is still a small ember of hope in me that STO will give us some kind of Vesta II design someday. Palatine, Esquilline, and Brigid are ... okay, and Caelian is too Section 31ish for my tastes.
I think both ships can exist without making the other redudant. I don't think the Odyssey should have all this quantum slipstream stuff, likewise I don't think Odyssey has as advanced sensors like the Vesta does. The Odyssey just continues the line of NX - Constitution - Excelsior - Ambassador - Galaxy - Sovereign - Odyssey while Vesta takes a new path. One of pure planetary scientific research and other things that come up. In a way, the Vesta is the pure spinoff of the Excelsior, while Odyssey is Galaxy x Sovereign. Yes I know I mentioned it twice but it helps to clarify! Personally, I like the Emissary line. I Just wish those ships were larger on the path to the Universe class. I've never liked the way Vesta looks. I just think it's missing stuff.
Agreed. I like them both, but to me the Vesta is sleeker and deadlier-looking. This ship is a hot rod. The Odyssey looks like a slower and more lumbering weapons platform, able to pour out massive fire while shrugging off incredible damage.
Starfleet's advantage over races like the Romulan's and Klingon's is the constant innovation; they don't just develop an all-singing, all-dancing ship and then just tweak it until it's obsolete, they constantly iterate. The Ambassador class is my typical go-to example; a class that was revolutionary compared to the previous TMP-Era designs but because Starfleet continued to develop the new technologies and came up with the Galaxy class and the numerous variants, the Ambassador type ships were side lined. They were still extremely modern and useful ships, just not the top-of-the-line ships, and I think the Vesta would probably go in that same category. The development described even mirrors the Ambassador; it was the class that came first, but was quickly overtaken by a more advanced design; in the Vesta's case it's the Odyssey class.
I love the Vesta Class - for a myriad of reasons. First and foremost, I love that it's based on the Roman Pantheon and the 7 hills. I've always been fascinated with Ancient Rome. And because Ezri Dax - my favorite Dax - was given her first Captaincy over that ship. Lastly, it's got a sleek, savvy design that I love. It's the perfect convergence of several things for me. Sadly, when I played STO, the Vesta had been released and I was saving up to buy one to use, but quit playing before I had the tokens.
Really neat video and iove the Vesta as much as i love Ezri, but aren't we confusing verses here? I know in STO there is any ship playable that has ever been imagined, but: In the former "beta" timeline that has now been erased with the "Coda" there was no Odyssey Class because the Galaxy Class stayed in service well into the late 2380ys as was intended in her 100year lifecyclye. The Vesta ships fulfilled a whole new role as super-fast exploreres like the "Quirinal " did as a part of Janeways Delta Quadrant "Full Circle" fleet or as a fast responder like Ezris Aventine during the final borg invasion.
I really like this design… I wish Voyager had used a design similar to this, probably just smaller. the Intrepid-class ships are very front-heavy, and if it’s supposed to be such a fast ship you’d think the engineering fuselage and warp nacelles would be much larger.
The Vesta was too resource-intensive for what it was at the time, its platform wasn't perfected until the 7 class. They reskinned it as the 8 and 8.1 class, and the 10 class was pretty good, but people have complained about the 11 class not running off of older CPUs.
the Vesta/Rademaker class is my second favorite class of ship after the Odyssey, i would love a show featuring one; hell even the Aventine, have Nicole De Boer come back with Alexander Siddig. With how Janeway lead the development of it, having it return to the delta quadrant to establish a federation presence there, and also to deal with the fallout from the Voyager mission would be absolutely just perfect. Have it take Janeway on the path there to run a newly established Starfleet base starting by finding the Telaxians a new actual home.
I like the idea that the Vesta class is present as a test bed for the quantum slipstream drive as normal, but it's activities is heavily classified. The Dauntless we see in Prodigy would then be the first ship to adopt the quantum slipstream drive as an ongoing openly known technology, followed by the Odyssey class. This makes sense, with the Tel Shiar being a big deal post the Dominion War, trying to take advantage of the reputation the Romulan involvement in the war gave them. I even think Admiral Janeway being in charge of the Vesta development and also secret activities makes further sense. She has had 7 years dealing with far tougher circumstances. Defeating Tel Shiar agents snooping around secret technological development missions would be fun for her after that.
Before the Odyssey came, I always thought this could have been the class for the Enterprise F. Maybe its slightly bulkier and more engineering focused variant, the Rademaker class. The shielded landing bay was such a cool design feature and could be a very useful plot device.
I feel The Vesta/Aventine has been a bit shunned. All these book & Online ships were introduced in Picard, but not this one. I always think of this ship in the same way as the Luna/Titan. It should have been included in Picard somewhere.
310 light years per hour would have resulted in the Maquis staying in the brig for Voyager's 10 day journey home. Would have been a much shorter series.
Just say the dauntless was built to the original vger specs and the Vesta is Starfleets frst original design after they learned the mechanics. Solves everything :D Also the Oddy is not a dedicated science ship. It cant do all the Vesta does. Your logic seems deeply flawed. Staf leet remembering it needs science ships and cant rely on their big gun crusers for everything seems sensible to me. Kind of like in the US military how they obsessed over air power for a while and ignored other developments. Im surprised you skipped over a lot fo the features in STO like its amazing phaseer lance.
You if you needed an easy access building that you can move around in the context of the late 24th Century setting .. why not a Galaxy Saucer ? It would make a pretty good training facility, in case of a situation like a the Breen attack on earth it could even raise shields & shoot back.it has Holodecks transporters and a large shuttle bay. & as it lacks a warp core it isn't any more dangerous than any other fusion powered thing would be in an inhabited place.
The problem with getting the design into canon is that it wasn't a commissioned fan design, like the Luna or the Odyssey. With those, the rights to use the design automatically went to the licence holder. With the Vesta, they'd have to make a deal with Mark Rademaker for every single show or game they would use it on. That's what Cryptic did.
Given that Odyssey class is canonically now older than its STO launch. I think the relationship should be inverted with Vesta class being the new 2405 era ship.
If the vesta ever gets to be cannon, I’d like to see it as the big “state ship” like the Enterprise’s back up or a 2nd to the flag ship. Doing mostly diplomatic missions and putting on a show to member worlds.
I believe the Vesta (Aventine) design was a better use of space than the Odyssey with the whacking great empty space between the saucer and engineering hulls.
i can't stress how much i hate the odyssey design. ( consider how it splits, everything; turbolifts, cables, jeffries tubes has to go to the side of the ship to get to the secondary hull). It is stupidly ineffecient. The Vesta on the other hand looks like a natural and far more logical progression from where Voyager ended and the design language. I love the design of the Vesta and would loveto see it used in canon.
minor correction USS Vesta & the USS Aventine are different ships. Vesta after repairs/rebuild ends up becoming the Flagship of the Full Circle Fleet as seen in that series of novels.
I want to believe that, like Ezri wanted, the Aventine became the first Starfleet Ship exploring the Andromeda Galaxy, that is why we don't see it in Canon
I think there is still room for it to be a planned Slipstream testbed. Starfleet wanted a slipstream ship so they started to develop one, the Vesta, however, during the development some people studying the designs of the Dauntless started to voice doubts, they had noticed things that had been overlooked that suggested that their understanding was not quite as complete as they had thought and the Vesta was doomed to fail. Eventually these naysayers would win over enough support for their theories and Starfleet would relent and start designing the new Dauntless, as close to the original as possible to minimise the chance of them missing something important that they hadn't noticed. By this stage the Vestas development had gone so far that it wasn't worth cancelling, so it was completed, and launched and, as predicted,the slipstream didn't work as hoped proving that the Dauntless design was necessary for a complete understanding of how Slipstream works.
It's interesting that the Vesta project was restarted at all. It reminds me of the pre-war projects restarted by France after WWII. Surprising to think they still had those old projects that they were still happy to continue, but there were.
I wonder if the vesta could dock an improved difiant type to its aft deck, allowing a utility similar to saucer seperation except without reducing either ship's capabilities?
Aurora Borealis Incorporated Wait so a private corporation exists within the post-capitalist Federation? How the hell does that work? Is there a stock market in the UFP?
I'll be honest, I don't see any difference between Federation ships. Class this, class that, the same thing, at the end of the day they all look like a pizza cutter. At least the other factions have different designs on their ships.
They could always say it was the testbed for some more advanced QSD designs, or maybe the first time it was used at such a large scale, for long-term missions.
We should also consider that the vesta is likely less resource intensive than the Odyssey but still extremely capable. So it is not out of the realm of possibility that it would be brought back if that function is still needed but resources would be more efficiently spent on more ' really good but not the best' vessels.
I have never been a fan of the Vesta class design. But it is a shame that went with STP's Dauntless class rather than the Vesta as the QST testbed, because that is probably my least favorite Starfleet design ever.
Those dimensions make it maybe half as dense as water It's nice when authors check. Many stated ship mass values and dimensions imply they would float on air
love this class but have also thought about what it would look like if it was more sovereign, akira & achillis along with inquiry, avenger & arbiter in its design
This was an interesting design. It's cool that for books Ezri Dax is Captain of this particular class. I hope we eventually see that in a show...but it MIGHT not happen.
this class i wont mind to see on screen f we are getting more shows set in the 2400 aka legacy my nr 1 ship i love to see is the presidio wich i love to see a video off
